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Pride: The Deadliest Deadly Sin?

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Truth Network Radio
December 7, 2020 7:03 am

Pride: The Deadliest Deadly Sin?

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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December 7, 2020 7:03 am

Pride is often first in the list of seven deadly sins. It puts us above God and leads to spiritual disaster. And pride not only destroys our relationship with God and others, but it can also wreak havoc on our finances. On the next MoneyWise Live, hosts Rob West and Steve Moore explain how pride can negatively affect the way we manage our money. How to avoid pride’s pitfalls on the next MoneyWise Live at 4pm Eastern/3pm Central on Moody Radio.


It's no wonder the bride is often first in the list of seven deadly sins, in which is above God lives spiritually disastrous but also adding insult to injury. Pride could also affect money. Pride is also the thing that tells you you don't have it. Now there's not so much as first up today financial planner and teacher Rob West tells us how that can affect your money. Take your calls, and anything financially hundred 525-7000 800-525-7000 times more pride, that's next 21 Rob the spiritual implications of pride are obvious, but how was it harmful to our finances whether many reason Steve is certainly an important one involves accountability. It's difficult to avoid impulse buying to stay on budget and to be generous. If were going it alone.

That's why it's crucial to have an accountability partner that you answer to about how you're using money. If you're married the first choice is obviously your spouse but you could also have a trusted financial advisor in that role as well. And by the way, I recommend that for married couples that person keeps you in line helps you make sure that your following God's financial principles to live on less than you earn pay down debt. Be generous and of course to save could be wrong. I'm not a theologian, of course, but I think accountability partners in the Bible is not in so many words, but the concept is certainly there, let's go to Proverbs 12 to find this, it reads to accept correction is wise to reject. It is foolish. Fools think they know what is best, but a sensible person listens to advice that's pretty strong language telling someone foolish or a fool, especially since Jesus tells us not to do it in Matthew five will you're right it is strong language because I think God is trying to drive home a point here that we all need accountability. As for Matthew five Jesus is telling us not to lash out at someone and unrighteous anger. But God is always just and righteous, and if he says something is foolish. Well of course we should listen now that's one way God relates the importance of having accountability in our lives and our finances. Here's another of Proverbs 15 reads, a wise man will hear in an increase in learning in a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel and pride is often the reason we reject the advice of others. Well, it is about what makes bright even more dangerous is that it's often combined with another negative attitude stubbornness, as you mentioned at the top. Our pride makes us think more highly of ourselves but perhaps even higher than God. And when you add in stubbornness while you're in danger of making your error permanent okay but we don't want to just heed the advice of anyone or any kind of advice because let's face it, some advice can be bad. Well that's true especially when it comes to finances and that's why the Bible has so many warnings about seeking wise counsel whether that's with a spouse, a friend or a professional. We would always want to seek godly advice. Okay, but how do we do that yeah I would say first by studying God's word and learning what it says about wise decision-making and what our role is in relation to God's wise counsel is always based on the acceptance that God owns everything we own nothing, not even ourselves.

God's role is to be our provider, our role is to be a faithful steward of what he gives us. That's the foundation of wise counsel and it builds from there. Always conforming to the timeless money management principles that God has laid out for us in his word. The more you study Scripture, the better you'll be able to know what godly advice is and what it is that's for sure. I found it in my own life so will what are some things we need to watch out for to make sure that pride is affecting our financial choices and decisions. That's a good question. It might seem counterintuitive, Steve.

But we have to be on our guard against success. Now it's the easy for pride to take hold of me land a big deal or get a raise or even when paying off that last credit card are finally able to burn the mortgage. That pride tells us that we are responsible for those financial victories that there because of something we've done rather than God's provision. That's why it's so important.

Remember that God owns everything and we are merely stewards or managers in other another dangerous area. Steve is lifestyle pride causes us to spend beyond our means, for any number of reasons.

Perhaps we feel we deserve it or to impress people, rather than being a faithful steward of God's resources. Now that's not to say we shouldn't enjoy God's provision. But you have to know when you're taking things too far and again that's were having wise counsel is important. Back to first Timothy were to enjoy God's provision live with contentment and provide for families within those guidelines.

We work it out as exercise of faith and of course where great information.

Thanks, 800-5257.

Today it's moneywise live with last Facebook question today is you prevent pride from damaging your finances.

We've heard from a couple of people. Marine says Rob, I prevent pride from dammit damaging my finances by staying in my lane and not trying to do what others do and think that I should do it to. And I guess that kind of falls in line with maybe something like a like comparison if we know God's plan for life will tend to stay away from that concept what you have there. Well you know comparison was exactly what Jennifer was talking about.

Jennifer said the way you prevent pride from damaging your finances is. Don't compare yourself with anyone else and then Matt said I love this to be completely honest, it's tough. And boy is it best thing is to constantly remember Matt says that all you have is really God's that he can give and take away. Also, if you're married, he goes on to say, work with your spouse to keep each other in check wants versus needs and those are great ideas. We love for you to engage with us on our Facebook page, question of the day or whatever's on your mind.

You can also engage with us in our new community tab in the moneywise app. I download the app in your app store today. Just search for moneywise biblical finance, then click on the community tab and share your questions, comments, I'm in there periodically responding to questions. I know other teammates of ours are as well and so it's a vibrant community of people who want to think about God's heart as it relates to their money and it's right there in the moneywise. Do I have your permission sir to go into the community.

Myself and kinda hang around and talk with folks maybe give advice, counsel, talk about our favorite football team that can be sure yeah okay right. Maybe crack a joke or two every now and then time a serious minded guy, rather I that's the way I think of you said 800-800-5255 7000 Athens, Tennessee hey Brandon, thanks for joining us today. What's on your mind. Thank you.

I will cure. It's about so that your stipulations and the cares act regarding penalty free distributions from IRAs, 401(k) retirement, tax-deferred retirement accounts yeah Brandon it's a great question and you're exactly right. There are penalty free IRA and qualified account distributions as long as you meet the requirements. So here's the deal.

If you would withdraw from a traditional IRA or employee provided her employer-provided I should say account before 59 1/2 you would normally have to pay that 10% early withdrawal penalty under the cares act. It makes it more flexible.

It eliminates the 10% early withdrawal penalty if you're under 59 1/2, so long as you meet the requirements so requirements say that you, your spouse, or dependent was either diagnosed with COBIT 19 or you experienced adverse financial consequences as a result of a layoff or other job-related action. Now the details on it you can take up to hundred thousand penalty free, you will still have to pay the tax due, not the penalty but the tax that's generated by it, but you will have three years to do it three tax years so you can spread it out over three years and if you decide to put it back in. You would have to re-file your tax return, but you could do that at any point during the three year period and miss the tax but there are provisions allowing folks who are in a real financial bind.

Take up $200,000 and by the way, it's per person, not per account. So if you have multiple IRAs maximum hundred thousand per person. But if you're in that situation. It may be what you need to do. I would say it's still pretty much a last resort. That's expensive money, meaning you gonna have to set the money aside to pay the tax on it and that's money that's no longer available for your future. But if you find yourself in a real predicament as a result of the pandemic. You know it could be really the asset that you need to tap, especially without the 10% penalty. Brandon, we appreciate your call. Thank you very much sir, Chicago Johnson, how can we help you today sir taking my call. Hello Yegor and Hetzer yeah yeah so that only God knows how many more models I have left.

I have a market 60+ thousand and I have about SMI mounting an annuity about 20,000 in investment net savings of about 36,000 next two years.

I like to catching some of my 3D to pay off my mortgage which you give me some money to be able to buy insurance that he said to do that.

I like to know if it's a good idea you're planning to take the money out of the annuity. Either way, is that right if okay you know I like the idea of you being debt free in the season of life. I realize that the mortgage is such that you're still having to pay that payment every month even as you pay it down and that's going to make the fact that you have to have more available on a monthly basis in terms of cash flow so soon as we can get you out of debt completely impugned including your mortgage just gives you more flexibility because as less money that you need on a monthly basis to sustain your lifestyle. I want to make sure though that in doing so we don't, you know, take away all the funds that are available for the unexpected. So that would be you know an emergency fund in this season of life of at least six months worth of expenses a year would be even better you.

Perhaps you have that with that 36,000 in savings you got that additional 20,000 in investment so I like the idea Johnson of you paying off this mortgage. Eliminating that payment every month which gives you more margin on a monthly basis. Now, let's talk for second about the insurance you're thinking of picking up that would take the place of that mortgage payment what are you looking to add in the way of insurance, life insurance, that will cost me something left for the family. Okay, so you'd use it as an inheritance. You know the only thing I would say about that is, you know, at 79 years old that's good to be costly. That policy and so I would just think about the impact of that weather that makes the most sense. Whether it's truly necessary versus you taking that money that you have available. After the mortgage is paid off and just using that to socket away every month so you can build up an asset that's there for you if you need it. For instance, you know, if you had done major medical expense you needed some in-home care, long-term care of some kind that would be money that you have to access for that. But if you didn't use it and didn't need it, then it could be money that would be passed off as an inheritance, but for you to acquire an insurance policy at 79 years old that's gonna be costly and you again you have to be able to see that through for there to be any benefit for the kids and I guess the question is, is it worth all of that expense versus you saving that money which you could then have access to. If you need it during your life.

So I just think and pray through that, but as to your initial question, I like the idea of you being debt free and having a little bit more margin and flexibility in your life, and Johnson.

If you'd like additional information.

If you like to run this by someone else. You might check on our website moneywise for a certified kingdom advisor in your area easy to find. Just click on that little tell you who's in your area and who you might want to contact. We wish you the best. Thank you very much for listening to moneywise live these Rob last time Steve Moore give us a call 800-5257, remembering that God owns it all. Not just 10%.

This is wise live. Rob was taking calls and questions today anything financially hundred 525-7000. Continuing on Crystal Lake, Illinois Bobby, thanks for your patience and what you question my question. I trust for my 90-year-old trust and I moved here from California to Illinois because she could no longer take care of herself and she sent a senior home.

Well I just sold her house and her financial advisor that you cared for 30 years in California called me and suggesting that wanted six months living expenses for her.

I should take the rest of it and have him invest with the rest of her stocks and bonds.

I think that you help tying up money.

That's a for sure thing.

Yeah, well, tell me a little about the situation here Bobby in terms of what is currently invested in what you have in the way of the proceeds from the home sale okay. I have about $50,000 and a checking account that's just security comes in there and so forth and about $5000 a month for living expenses and she had we sold her home for $330,000 and I sure in her investment.

It's over half a million. Okay. And is she drawing an income for the trust right now or she living off of Social Security alone drawing some interest off of the investment. I would say about couple thousand every quarter couple thousand 1/4 so you think she's proudly only taking you a thousand year or so, yes, I think that I will tell you I felt when I brought her here and you know I'm learning all kinds of things do you guys think you for that. You know I like the idea of you having, especially in this season of life you having a years worth of liquid funds, but you have nearly that with the 57 50,000 you said her expenses are about 5000 a month so you in effect have 10 months worth of expenses in the checking account.

Is that right okay so what I would do is I probably opened on a savings account and online savings account.

That's paying 1/2 a percent a year, which is what they're paying right now and move over to that savings account anything beyond what she needs for this month, plus one more month leave that in the checking account so there's always plenty of cash there and then move the rest over to the online savings so that if you need to move it over for any reason, or she does for anything unexpected.

It's just a couple of days away with an electronic transfer but at least it's not in the checking account where the bills are being paid out of and it's earning some interest so that would be my first suggestion. Beyond that, you know, if you would add another 10,002 that seems again to get it up to 60 as long as you tell me she's only pulling about 8000 year from that half a million men we would reasonably say you could you could put 4% a year will that would be 20,000 on half a million.

So even if she's not at quite out 1/2 a million horses pull little more than eight. In either case she's pulling a lot less than your 4% year she spent less than 2% a year so that's a good thing, which means that account should continue to grow even on a very conservative basis, with no small percentage in stocks to generate some return in a little better than you might get in a straight fixed income account but the majority of the assets and perhaps bonds and that would also tell me that as long as she doesn't plan on another major expense like buying another home or replacing a car or you don't have, you know, some planned medical expenses are, you know she's heading in the long-term care or something like that that where we would need to have money available for that if if none of that is present right now at least what we know of today. Then I would say you could take a portion of this and redirected back into the investment account because you have the time horizon appropriate for an income-based investment strategy and that means that there's a good portion that's that's available that's generating income that's not at the risk of the stock market and the smaller amount that is at the risk of the market, even if the market were to enter your two or three year bear market you wouldn't have to sell anything because your pulling such a little amount out you could weather any storm in terms of letting it recover so I'm actually not against you, investing you know almost all of this as long as the investment strategy matches her time horizon, risk tolerance, agent objectives, if that makes sense.

Do you follow all that about doing really well but I mentally you know and I'm just wondering if okay I think I understand what you're saying because her advisor was saying that when we know how she she's closer actually to death that you would probably start pulling out you know from her investment to make sure that good.

I think it makes a lot of sense to me. And obviously there's is a lot more to this than we can do within a couple minutes on the radio but just conceptually there could come a time. It seems like based on what you're describing where you need to start pulling a lot more in the way of income from this account because you have to cover medical expenses and care for her and those kinds of things. And if that was the case you'd want this money working for her in a portfolio like I described in having a bit more available, more like 800,000 instead of 500 would give you the ability to generate more income without ever touching that principle so this sounds like a good plan as well. She is a years worth of liquid cash and in the right income-based portfolio that's that's providing for her moving forward. I think I would get a good strategy here Bobby, I am. I'm thinking that as you help your and you're probably learning quite a bit about your own financial situation. Are you not know.

I mean, you got a head start now you're your a lot smarter about these things and you were six months ago and God's blessing is going to bless your generosity as well lead to call today. Thanks very much. Will we come back from my break will be talking to Shelby about buying a house that's in foreclosure.

After that Hannah wants to know some tips for single moms that and more money wise. Life continues at 800-5257 was not a place where each day one another to manage her money biblically and effectively. Good to have you with us again. Here's her phone number 800-525-7000. We have some open lines and Hannah Mary and John, you are in line don't go anywhere. Would you please, but next it's Shelby in Shreveport and what your question for Rob West call in question here Warren would be would you recommend buying a foreclosed home, except and N well water this Into doing that.

Yeah, tell me what you think and there shall be why are you thinking about buying a foreclosure eat.

Are you particularly handy like the idea of Kenneth for doing the renovations and maybe using this is kind of a side business you what you think. Well, honestly, the initial reason for family home a few months ago we got a letter kind of delete my houses. People told us that you never stay there again and pay the taxes on and I guess in three years. This they paid the taxes for three years and they would somehow get it on as well add me and my husband were currently running and that we were looking for future home and we didn't know that this could maybe be a great opportunity and a place to start. It really doesn't need a whole lot of work. I think it was just the taxes that my family actually married that stop paying Ryan, Sarah, I'm not really sure why Nita I don't know where to start you guys even recommend that yeah you know I think the biggest issue with buying a foreclosure is often the unexpected. So if this is a home that you know that's can it take a lot of that away and often times you really need a pretty solid financial cushion under you to absorb any potential problems or issues in terms of unexpected costs or know any other issues that that were not clear because you're kind of buying it. You know has is if you will, and there can be a lot of things that don't emerge until after the fact that you would otherwise uncover in the inspection process and just the normal course of buying a property that's not in foreclosure status but if you're buying a property where all that's been taken away because this is a family property and a lot of that is known to you, or you can get to a place where you have some comfort in it, then I think the key is you know whether you're actually buying under market value.

And so I would get an experienced real estate agent who has some experience in foreclosures who can. First of all assess the value of it to see what is that you're actually paying what is the market value what is the condition of the home. Do you have the funds available to take care of those orders. This can be something that will become a burden because you're perhaps buying you know spending all the money you have available and then you know you're going to be frustrated because there's things you want to do to it or there's problems, you need to take care of and you don't have the funds so it's really coming down to first of all, budgeting right, how much do we have available what is our cushion.

What we have your allotted for those repairs and renovations number two. Are we buying at the right value below market. Ideally with a foreclosure and then thirdly who's that professional who can help us navigate the twists and turns, who has some experience in this obviously you want to do the standard things like you're getting preapproved for the mortgage don't just assume you can afford with the bank says you can and then you want to you. Try to get that inspection done so you have real clarity on what you're getting.

But the end of the day.

I don't have a problem with that, especially again. If this is a property you're familiar with. That's can it take a lot of guesswork out okay appreciate Shelby thanks for: great question.

You know I he I hear and see these as all the time about buying foreclosed homes and obviously they make it sound real easy. Well not necessarily, and there are some pitfalls to avoid right room while that's exactly right. And that's why you just want to go into with your eyes wide open and going back to her opening topic today. Steve, that's what you want to have the money wise counsel walking alongside you as you navigate a man okay out to Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska Hannah, what's going on in your life and mom or not work now like reality like you, I applied for Medicaid. You know the kids at three and their little there wanting to happen for daycare expenses everywhere. On top of her and in the where it's a wake-up call. Well let me just tell you, Hannah. I've counseled with another single moms and dads to know how challenging it can be when you're working on limited resources you're having to take care of young children, which is a full-time job in and of itself, and then working on top of that outside the home you're trying to navigate all of that so we just got a come back to the fact that God is your provider. He is on the throne's promises can be trusted and one of those is that he will provide for you doesn't mean it's not good to be without its challenges, and so I think right off inviting God into your finances is really key. Recognizing his ownership and say Lord I need your help.

I need your wisdom. James 15. He says if we lack wisdom, we should ask for it and he'll give it to us and so we need to ask for. We need to ask for his provision, which he certainly promises and then beyond that, I think being plugged into a really good church family there in your new hometown that can and will be there as a support system for you because that's part of the role of the local church inside to get really involved because you're gonna need some help along the way and that is not always good to be financial. Beyond that, I think we need to have real clarity Hannah around.

What is the provision that you have. What are those resources that are to be coming your way in the form of your paying as well as any kind of government assistance or programs for families and we don't want to be unwilling to ask for those or take advantage of those everything from food assistance to anything else that might be provided and then any kind of support that would be coming from your husband as well. I think you would be obviously funds that could be available to help provide for the needs of the kids at the very least go beyond that.

Just taking all that information getting that into a good working budget so you have real clarity around what's coming in on a monthly basis what needs to go out, not just the things you get bills for but the discretionary expenses as well. And even those nonrecurring expenses.

Things are going to come around once or twice a year and and we have budget coaches will become money wise coaches that would be delighted to walk alongside you in that process give you some tips and ideas for how you can cut costs and get that spending plan in place would love for you to download the new money wise app and use that as a an envelope system.

If you will because you're having a good handle on what's available by paycheck so you can prioritize your spending around the bills and keeping food on the table and keep the rent paid and everything else is going to be really key so you know this is is going to be challenging and yet I want you to be encouraged because I believe God's heart is aligned with what you're doing and that is trying to care for these kids the best you can provide for your family and so Nasser money was slide committed to be praying for you in this process and reach out to our money wise coaches they be delighted to walk alongside this process being Hannah S you you stand alone, especially some contact information from use of the same somethings.] More with Rob last lies from West calls questions and comments today.

Love to hear from you so let's continue on going to Wentzville, Missouri Mary, we appreciate you holding in line for us what your 401(k) question today. Call just one term for six and figure out what side to carry insurance on a little worried about R41. He had a penchant for this mark but also have a for one company has about 60,000 I have for one has about 150,000, and I have a small pension when I retire.

They offer where I work like an IRA for one but they also have the regular 41 in mind all in the regular my house is paid off. I have a 4110 and I owe about 10,000 on it. My pain with about 230 something I'm not awake like sure we should believe in our money and I for one, with him getting ready to retire and with the way the economy make change with the new elect. So I was wondering if you could give me by absolutely merry with personal thank you for your call and for the great description of where you are and I appreciate that background a couple questions of first one would be me just say congratulations on having that home paid off.

That's really critical, as you'll head into this next season of life to keep your expenses as low as possible. Being completely out of debts can give you ultimate flexibility and keep your your need really low in terms of what you need to be able to have coming in on a monthly basis to cover your expenses is it's going to be true that when you're both collecting your pensions plus Social Security that that the combination of those without pulling anything from the 401(k) investments will cover your expenses yeah okay and you said you probably will have a little bit left over each month. Okay, see that's a great situation of being which means that this roughly 210,000 and whatever grows to between now and when you retire in the next five years could easily be 1/4 of $1 million that just continues to grow in the future so that if you had a major need major medical event or something I expected you to have some money to fall back on. You could also convert that into an income stream.

So you even at 250,000 we would look at it about 4% a year so you could pull an extra 10,000 a year off of that quarter of a million and ideally you would invested in such a way that you'd never impact the principal you could just live off the interest of it, you know, plus the dividends and so forth. But you don't even need that's all that money can just continue to be reinvested. So it grows over time. So you really good spot. I think in terms of the end. How you approach the investing side of that you'll keep in mind because you all don't need to pull any money out of this and because of the fact that you once you reach age 65 life expectancy goes to 83 and 84 for men and women, respectively. So if the Lord Terry's and you're in good health. You know you could need this money to last for a couple of decades or more and so that's why we say even when you hit retirement. You should have a an investment strategy that still has some allocation to stocks. Even though the majority may be in bonds and because you're in a situation where you're not even planning to pull income from it. You could even have perhaps a little bit more toward the stocks. Maybe it's 50-50 you whatever you're comfortable with because member. The goal is to meet your objectives and what God has for you in the season not to outpace the market or your neighbor or your friend or anything like that you want to because little risk as possible and yet be a good steward of this money so it can grow and be available for more giving and whatever you have for passing it down as an inheritance. Whatever it might be so.

I like the idea of it, staying invested you know I wouldn't get to your focused on the election or anything like that. The stock market in a properly diversified portfolio over the last hundred years. Despite all kinds about people in every decade, having its own got a catastrophe in and dilemmas in all kinds of administrations.

Whether you like where this is headed or you don't. Bottom line is the stock market is the very best place to be to build wealth over time. And so as long as that portfolio is invested appropriately with your agent, risk tolerance, and that's going to come down to having an investment professional who understands you and can deploy it that way. I think that's exactly the place for you to be over the long haul. Given how you all have positioned yourself with God's money, so I'd roll his account out to an IRA. I'd find a certified kingdom advisor there in Missouri that you're comfortable with.

By interviewing two or three and then when you would retire and that loans paid back then you could roll that hundred and 50 out to add to it and you guys will be in great shape. The only other thing that I would look at is I would consider a long-term care insurance policy but other than that I think you guys are in great position in Iraq for the past old 35 years or so since I've been hanging around here.

I found that virtually no one disagrees with the concept of hiring a professional will working with a certified kingdom advisor or anyone along those lines, but what keeps people from doing it sometimes is they don't like the concept of having to pay someone so generally speaking, if I want to sit down with someone for a couple of hours or maybe even ultimately, I asked him to come on board for number of years.

What should I expect to be paying that person you know it just depends on what you're hiring them for if you're paying them to actually take discretion, meaning making, buy and sell decisions for you based on your goals and objectives on an investment portfolio that could be anywhere from 1 1/2% a year to your little less than 1% as the portfolio size gets you up up above $1 million, and so on.

$100,000 portfolio that would be $1000 a year on a million-dollar portfolio that could be 10,000 a year. If you're paying somebody for their time to do let's a comprehensive financial plan could be somewhere between 750 and $2000 but again you're paying for somebody with knowledge and expertise that you don't have so you can be the best steward of God's money, in the same way you pay a CPA to prepare your return. You hire an estate planning attorney to do your will and trust in an power of attorney and you hire a real estate agent to sell your home is like paying a surgeon to operate on your brain I would. I would recommend that as well. But some things you don't want to do when you don't have serenity Fox Lake, Illinois John, we know you been holding out there buddy and that you're wanting to start a not-for-profit what so give us the details. You are a number of food drives in my community. I really like to start a charity where I could work with local grocery stores and even clothing stores to get other contributions and I'm sure I would need a fax number that somebody will interest him over homeowners don't have a problem with making donations. I am not trying to grow into a business you try to figure out. Do I need to start at nine charity work and I just get a tax ID and I look online a little bit and then when I start digging deeper. I'm saying there's a lot of scams out there who's going what you can be charged to get a number not valid so you think you guys and I appreciate you guys every day. I'm to give you guys a call and not let you know how done I appreciate that. It sounds like you're doing some great work there good collecting food for those who are in a real needy position, especially this year with all of the need that's out there appreciate hearing about what it is, God has called you to see you're looking just to be clear, you're looking to form a not-for-profit organization to be able to accept donations where you could offer a tax deduction. As a result of taking those charitable contributions is that right, correct okay yes yes I think the key here is what you have to recognizes no one in the EIN which is very easy to and employee identification number is a wholly different process than getting the tax exempt status. The other there is going to be some work to be done to become a nonprofit in and achieve that status from the IRS including getting clear on your purpose which you probably are you just articulated that to me pretty clearly deciding what type of nonprofit you want establishes it charitable for property relief probably could be religious in a number of other purposes and nonprofits that you want to start a name for it, forming a board writing up the bylaws and then you've got to prepare and file the incorporation paperwork.

Ultimately, you then going to file IRS form 1023 for the 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status and that's really can be the key because you have to get that a tax-exempt set status in order to become a charity where you can accept charitable contributions.

You know I've been down this road several times and you know there's a lot more to it than you think. And having somebody who's been through it before is really worth its weight in gold. In my view, so finding either an accountant or an attorney who has real experience in these types of things forming not-for-profit organizations completing those bylaws helping you fill out the form to submit to the IRS.

All of those things are going to be really key.

I think yelling including forming the corporation if you don't have one already so and then you're in any ongoing compliance because you have to have you will comply with the annual reporting requirements. Once you have it.

So I would contact a certified kingdom advisor there in Fox Lake John and asked for a referral to an accountant or an attorney whose somebody who is a godly person who has experience in assisting folks in forming not-for-profit organizations, and I think paying somebody to do that will save you a whole lot of time and grief in getting this process done so. Great job on the work you're doing and I think you'll be pleased if you go down this road. John, thanks for much of you for giving us a call today.

We wish you the best as you continue on with the ministry God's given you.

Thanks again for your calls were pretty much out of time for call today but will be back tomorrow moneywise live is a partnership between the rate of radio and moneywise media arrived last time Steve Moore have a great remainder of day and please join us again tomorrow

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