Who’s Your Real Boss?

God ordained man to work before the fall, so we know that labor is good for us and not a punishment, but sometimes it doesn't feel like a blessing either. If your job's getting you down, it may be time for a refresher course on the biblical principles for work. Host Rob West welcomes Compass founder Howard Dayton to discuss those in some detail today. Then we'll take your calls and questions on anything later in the broadcast.

800-525-7000. I'm Steve Moore. Who's your real boss?

Find out next right here on MoneyWise Live. Rob, our friend Howard Dayton is also the author of Your Money Counts, now more than ever, and boy, isn't that the truth. Anyway, today we're taking a deep dive into the chapter on work because there's really a lot in there. Well, there certainly is, Steve, and we can't wait to get started. Howard, always a delight to have you back on the program.

Well, Rob, it's my pleasure, I promise you. We're going to start today, Howard, with a biblical perspective of work because I think most of us lose sight of that from time to time, so frame this up for us. Well, Rob, Steve already mentioned that work was God's idea for us even before the fall. Genesis 2.15 tells us the Lord God took the man, Adam, and put him into the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it. So the very first thing the Lord did with Adam was to give him a job. Despite what many have come to think, work was initiated for our benefit in what was then the sinless environment of the garden. So I think when you think about it, Adam had the original dream job, you know, no sin, wonderful place to work. Of course, that changed after Adam did sin. Work became much more difficult. In Genesis 3, we read, Cursed is the ground because of you, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, both thorns and thistles that shall grow for you, you shall eat the plants of the field by the sweat of your face, you shall eat bread. So we know that work was never intended as a punishment, and that's still true even after the fall.

It's simply more difficult. Work is still super important to the Lord because it shapes our character. You know, a job's not merely a task designed to earn money, it's also intended to produce godly character in the life of the worker. And when you think about it, when a carpenter is building a house, the house is also building the carpenter.

He's getting skills, he's refining his judgment, just a host of character qualities are developed in the work environment. That's such a great thought and a big idea and really puts the objective of our work into a proper biblical context. Okay, so we've established that work itself is good, and frankly, Howard, the Bible doesn't play favorites with professions, does it?

No, Rob, you're absolutely right. Scripture doesn't elevate any honest profession above another. There's equal dignity on all types of work, and we find a wide variety of vocations in the Bible. You know, David was a shepherd and a king, Luke was a doctor, Lydia a retailer who specialized in selling purple fabric, Daniel was a government worker, Paul a tent maker, and of course, the Lord Jesus himself was a carpenter. In God's economy, and this is really another big idea, Rob, there's equal dignity in the labor of a salesperson, a janitor, and the president of the company. Regardless of the particular job we have and the particular status symbol it might have in the world around us, the labor of a private or a general in the army, from God's perspective, it's equal. And so really the big idea here, Howard, is that we play to an audience of one, and it doesn't matter what we're doing, as long as we know that the Lord is the object of that work, that we're doing it to serve him, that it puts everything in the proper context, it gives value to every profession, because what we're doing, we're doing in service to the Lord, like Colossians tells us, it is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

Yeah, and that's probably the biggest single idea when it comes to work, we're serving the Lord Christ himself, not the person who's our boss necessarily, but Christ himself, and boy, when you have that perspective, it does change everything. And our work is right here today with you on MoneyWise Live. Your host is Rob West, I'm Steve Moore, and our special guest Howard Dayton will be back with more, including your calls at 1-800-525-7000, 800-525-7000. Don't go away.

We'll be right back. And once you discover it, life will never look the same. The Treasure Principle is available when you click the store button at MoneyWiseLive.org.

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Or do we bow our lives down to something or someone eternal, someone who loves us with the most amazing love, someone who cares about even the smallest details of our lives? Do you know Jesus? This Jesus who heals lepers? This Jesus who loves the poor? This Jesus who died for you and me? The Jesus who rose again? Do you know him? This Jesus who aches for you?

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That's christiancreditcounsellors.org or call 800-557-1985. Great to have you along today on MoneyWise Live. Our discussion is one that goes all the way back to the book of Genesis and that has to do with work. Why has God put us here? And here to help us work through this, our host Rob West and also our guest Howard Dayton. You know there's not a more foundational idea that we should have in our minds than really the proper understanding of work from a biblical perspective of course and Howard just before the break you reminded us that work is something that is good. That work took place before the fall and that the Bible doesn't play favourites with professions. We even made this key statement that we're serving Christ in our work, that we serve an audience of one and with all of that in mind Howard, perhaps it makes working for a tough manager even more tolerable and maybe take some of the stress out of a demanding job with tight deadlines. Would you agree?

Oh, I would totally agree Rob. You know when I understand I work for Christ himself, I want to be the best employee, the best worker that I can possibly be and another cool benefit is to recognize that God has a part in our work and we have a role. We have certain responsibilities and you know when you are shouldering all the responsibilities yourself, even on things you cannot control, that leads to a lot of anxiety, stress, but recognizing that God has a part and we have a part can really be liberating.

Unpack that for us a bit Howard. What then is God's part in our work? Rob, first of all, God gives us our skills. In Exodus 36 it reads, and every skillful person in whom the Lord has put skill and understanding to know how to perform all the work. In other words, God gives each of us unique skills and a wide variety of abilities and this is key. It's not a matter of one person being better than another, it's just that they're different, that they've been given different skills.

That hopefully is easy for people to get their arms around. This role that God has can be a challenge for people, but the Lord is also the one who controls success. He's the one who's ultimately responsible for us getting that promotion or not getting that promotion, at least for now, and we see how the Lord used that in the life of Joseph in Egypt.

He was a slave, first a very successful one at Potiphar's house, then confined and thrown into a dungeon, ultimately in God's perfect timing became second only to Pharaoh, the most powerful country in the world, he became a number two guy. And in Psalm 75 we really read it captures this when it says, for promotion and power come from nowhere on earth, but only from God. And that means your earthly boss is not the one who controls whether or not you get that promotion, and when you understand that you just work with a different attitude. And when you reflect on it, Rob, most people leave God completely out of work. They believe that they alone control their success, promotions, so they experience a lot of stress, frustration, and when you understand God's part, it just eliminates all that frustration.

Well, this is such a big idea, and I love what you said there about your earthly boss is not the one who controls whether or not you get promoted, which changes entirely how we view our boss. But I would also say this changes how we view our customer as well. If God alone is our provider, then we're not necessarily dependent upon that particular customer giving us the sale, because God will provide. Now, that then frees us up to be focused on serving our customers and thinking about what God would have us to do in service to those around us.

Would you agree with that? Exactly right, and we're to serve God's way, and manipulation is not part of God's way. To be absolutely honest, we're to be straightforward in how we deal with customers. Now we're to be gracious, certainly tell them the benefits of what we're selling, but the sale ultimately is up to the Lord. And again, that really takes a lot of the heat, a lot of the pressure off that.

Yeah. You've talked a little bit about this, but you really articulated God's part well. Anything else you would have us to know about our part? Well, we are to be faithful.

That's the bottom line. It is required in stewards or us, managers, that one be found faithful. So we're to be completely faithful in our job, and we're to work hard to be diligent.

We're to be honest. We're to encourage our boss. We're to be gracious to those who work around us. We shouldn't play office politics because we're not trying to get ahead in the flesh.

We're allowing the Lord in his proper timing to elevate us if he so chooses. And it's interesting when you look at scripture, you see time and time again that hard work and diligence are encouraged while laziness is condemned. Proverbs 18 says, He who is slack in his work is brother to him who destroys.

That's pretty clear. And when you think about, Rob, you know, our work ethic is really part of our witness for Christ. Your work should be at such a level that people will never equate laziness and mediocrity with the Lord. Howard, if we're in the right position, if we're in the right job or career, should our work should we expect our work will be fulfilling? I think when we have the perspective that we're serving Christ and working for Christ, that work can be really fulfilling.

Now, especially if you sense that it's your calling. You know, as you guys know, you've been called to radio. So yes, there's a lot of work involved, a lot of preparation involved, but I know from my discussions with both of you that God called you. He made you to be on the radio. And that's what's hugely fulfilling once you have that perspective in your heart.

Howard, we have just about a minute left. We know our first priority is our relationship with the Lord. But when it comes to our work, often family and even our own rest can be sacrificed. Talk about the importance of those two ideas.

Well, you're totally right. You know, I think working too hard has reached epidemic proportions. Frantic over commitment to work pervades our culture. And when you think about it, we're commanded not only to work, but also to rest. In Exodus 34, you shall work six days, but on the seventh day, you shall rest. Even during plowing time and harvest time, you shall rest. And rest can be an issue of faith. But I can say this, God can do in six days more than you can do in seven days.

Yes. So it's really important to spend time with family and get proper rest. When we work hard and rest as the Bible teaches and trust God to do his part. Howard, I know you've taught us that things get better.

Not perfect. We're still in a fallen world, but we can live a life that's a lot less stressful. We can feel good about accomplishing what God has for us. And really having this perspective that you just articulated today, a biblical foundation for our work is an absolute game changer. So grateful for you, my friend, and the work that you continue to do. Thank you for stopping by and sharing with us today. Oh, thanks for having me, Rob.

God bless you guys. Howard Dayton is the former host of this very radio program. He's also the founder of Compass. Finance is God's way. You'll find out more about him and his organization when you visit Compass1.org.

And we'll be right back with much more after this. The financial wealth you leave behind could be the best thing that ever happened to your loved ones or the worst in splitting heirs, giving your money and things to your children without ruining their lives. Ron Blue explains why it's important to make these decisions now instead of forcing your heirs to do it later. Splitting heirs will foster a real appreciation for the precious resources that God has entrusted to you.

And it's available when you click the store button at MoneyWiseLive.org. Hebrews 4-12 says, For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. Here's Beth Moore with a quick word. It was the year A.D. 386, and he was just sin-sick. And he's out in the garden of a friend's home in Milan, and he's just sick and weeping. And he hears a child singing. A child he cannot see. Here's a child's voice going, Take up and read. Take up and read. There's a scroll close by, and he goes to the scroll, opens it up, and his eyes are immediately cast upon this verse right here, 13.

Let us behave decently as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Well, I mean, this had been his whole life. And in that moment, and I want to read what the New American Commentary says, I'm quoting from this point on. Immediately, his heart was flooded with clear light, and the darkness of doubt vanished. No other theologian has made a greater contribution to the theology of the Western world. What a cool thing. And, you know, here is what one of the things I love so much about Christ Jesus when he just meets with you and, I mean, calls you out.

And somehow he is the only one that could ever do that in such a way that you are given your dignity instead of having it stripped from you. And after living in all this darkness, it was this convicting passage that brought clear light. You've been listening to A Quick Word with Beth Moore. The study of Galatians is now available as an online experience. Sign up today at BethMoore.org or join Beth in January 2021 for the release of the printed workbook edition.

See you next time for another Quick Word with Beth Moore. Money and life run on the same track, but unfortunately sometimes it seems like your money is heading in a different direction from your goals. In Never Enough, Three Keys to Financial Contentment, author Ron Blue helps you to break down all your financial options to a basic four and then shows you how to keep it all chugging along in the right direction on the same track. Never Enough, Three Keys to Financial Contentment, available when you click the store button at MoneyWiseLive.org.

Good to have you back with us today. It's MoneyWise Live with Rob West. I'm Steve Moore and we always do our best to help you find God's will for your money and your finances based on the principles found in his Word.

At least we attempt to do that. If we can help you in that regard, give us a call right now because we have three, four, maybe five open lines. This is a great time to call, 800-525-7000. Rob, as you know, yesterday we were talking with Al calling from Lake George, Minnesota. He has some money invested in IRAs that have a connection to various denominations of churches.

We weren't quite sure what the details were. I think we may have them today. Yeah, absolutely. Al, so glad to have you with us today. Thanks for coming back on the program. Great. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. So give us the question that you had, now that I'm a bit more familiar with what you're invested in there through the Assemblies of God.

What specifically are you trying to decide at this point? Okay, my wife and I are both retired and we both have IRAs invested in their investment certificates, non-FDIC insured. But they're invested in land maintenance, churches, buildings, and ministries of the denomination. And so they just matured. I think we've probably been invested here probably over ten years. This five-year certificate has come matured and now we're looking at reinvesting in that or I guess we've already made a decision. But going forward, we kind of backed off now because of the day in which we live. Are all of those investment certificates going forward going to be taken care of by the body of Christ?

And so that's the concern, not only for us, but maybe for other people that have the same situation. Yeah, exactly right, Al. And basically what you're talking about there is specifically the Assemblies of God loan fund. But you could really apply this conversation really to any church bond or fund like this that's a debt security made available, in this case, to churches.

To expand their buildings or to buy land or to do a renovation or add an addition, whatever that might be. And I think there's two sides to this. One is the conviction side. You know, anytime we offer to use faith-based investments in our portfolios, we're doing that hopefully out of a sense of conviction. We're wanting to avoid certain companies or we're wanting to embrace other companies because there's either some sort of kingdom return or some social implication positively that by being invested in this, we think we're going to have an impact on the world, make the world rejoice.

And that's a good thing. Or we don't like what a company is doing, so we're going to stay away from it. And so I think, you know, the extent to which this investment decision in this debt security, this loan fund, if you will, offering a rate of return is a conviction that you want to be involved in, then that is, I think, separate from the financial side of this. And so I think you need to wrestle through that and you and your wife come to a decision about are we in this purely because of the financial return or is there some other reason we want to be a part of this because we just like the idea of this money being available to churches to be able to do what they want to do.

Others might say I specifically want to stay out of something like this because I'd rather not see churches borrow and godly people come down on both sides of that conversation. In terms specifically, though, Al, of the financial side of this, you know, these are not my favorite types of investments, just looking at overall risk and return. On the return side, the return is not that great. I mean, you know, we're talking about certificate rates of, you know, 1.25 percent for a year. And you can do, you know, I mean, you can get 0.6 percent in a high yield savings account.

So, yeah, it's better. But, you know, would you be better off somewhere else that has a secondary market, that has FDIC insurance? Because, you know, I think the other issue you have to consider here is just, you know, what are the risks associated with these types of investments when they're being extended to churches? You know, the collateral can be impaired due to a downturn in the real estate market. You know, we're talking about lending in an environment where there's no public market for these.

And so getting out of them can be challenging. We're talking about a situation where these debt instruments are subordinated to other lenders. So the primary lender is going to come first.

These will be, you know, coming down the line in terms of when they would be repaid. Obviously, churches in many cases are struggling right now just because of COVID and what's going on there. So I think if you factor all of that in, you'll realize perhaps that there's an elevated level of risk here because of the lack of liquidity and just the potential risk of default. Not to mention, you know, typically when a church is in default, nobody forecloses on them for obvious reasons.

And so, you know, being able to get out of those, I think, is more difficult. And again, I'm talking generally, not specifically about this particular pool of investments. So apart from a real conviction of you being in there for that reason, you know, I would like for you to probably look at other investment alternatives that don't have the specific risks that I mentioned here as a preferable option moving forward. Al, does that help you? Yeah, great. And we've taken steps along those lines right now. We just, you know, instead of being in like a five-year investment or adjustable, we step back to the demand note so that we're taking a look at other things while we're in that demand note so we're not locked in. Yes. Yeah. Okay, very good.

And I think, you know, again, you'll get a little bit better yield here, but I think I would at the very least diversify into other asset classes or other bond instruments that have a little bit more liquidity and a little more safety along the way. Al, I'm glad that we were able to hook up for a second day and shed some light on this for you. And we wish you the very best. Thanks so much. Rod, just before the break, how about an email here?

We haven't done one in a while. This comes to us from Melanie. She says, Dear Rob and Steve, do you have a list of credit cards with good rates? Yeah, credit cards. So I would go to the web. There's great resources out there for you to find a credit card in terms of low fees, the best return in terms of rewards.

Let me give you three. I'd go to nerdwallet.com, kind of a funny name, but a great website, nerdwallet.com. Second would be simply creditcards.com, and then the third is a favorite of ours, bankrate.com.

All of them rate credit cards and can give you a list of options to check out. Okay, good. Nerdwallet.com. Whenever you think of nerds, remember us.

This is Money Wise, 800-525-7000. We'll be right back. Investing is more than just returns. It's an expression of who you are and what you value. Does the way you invest your money reflect your identity as a Christian? At Eventide, we design investments for performance and a better world, so you can invest with the confidence to reach your financial goals while remaining true to your Christian values and commitments. We call this investing that makes the world rejoice. More is available at investeventide.com.

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That's Psalm 91, 2 through 4, the Moody Radio Verse of the Week. or mymoodyradio.org. Do you know if you have enough? Enough money? Enough house? Do you know how much is enough? If not, Ron Blue can help with his book, Master Your Money, a step-by-step plan for experiencing financial contentment. Learn how to save, invest, and give wisely, how to create a long-term financial plan, and how to get out of debt.

You'll find it all in Master Your Money by Ron Blue, available when you click the store button at MoneyWiseLive.org. With SRN News, I'm Bob Agnew in Washington. Speaking on the Senate floor today, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Republicans will push ahead with their procedural vote on a virus proposal, with a net cost of about $500 billion in relief money. However, he's facing opposition from Democrats, with Minority Leader Charles Schumer accusing Republicans of holding a phony vote just to consume all the time they can, and focused primarily on confirming the Supreme Court nominee on Monday. New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy and the First Lady tested negative for the coronavirus just hours after he abruptly left an event. The Democrat was speaking at a workforce development event. His office organized with Democratic Representative Donald Norcross at the Camden County College when he learned a recent contact had tested positive. U.S. health officials are redefining what it means to have close contact with somebody with COVID-19. For months, the CDC for Disease Control Prevention. Hey, whether it's saving or giving, getting out of debt, managing what you have, teaching your children about finances, let's discuss these and other things if they're on your mind, and we'd like to kick them around with you.

800-525-7000. Let's continue Cleveland, Tennessee. Lynn, you've been very patient. What's your question for Rob?

It's worth it to be patient. I really appreciate your program. I am probably pursuing a cash out refinance for the purpose of making home improvements. I have, per your advice, checked out several vendors and I've narrowed it down to two. One is a local bank.

One is an online thing. They are, the local bank is a half point higher in interest rate, but the loan costs are half of the other one. They both come out within, you know, five or six dollars of monthly payment, which is very important to me. You know, if I had excess each month, I wouldn't need to take cash out on my mortgage. And they are both very close on what the actual cash out amount would be in my working model. I say that because I don't, at this point, I haven't nailed down exactly how much I need for the improvements I'll need. So when I ran it through a mortgage calculator, it seemed like over the course of the loan, that half point, a half a percentage actually brought down the overall cost, even though the upfront loan costs are like twice the amount.

Yeah. Give me a sense of what is the value of the home and what is the total mortgage you're looking to take out with the cash out? The home, I believe, will be around $130,000, if not more. And I'm expected to take out either $60,000 or $65,000. Okay. Very good. And what is the total loan cost that you're looking at in either one?

One estimates at $2,300 and the other one estimates at $5,200. Okay. All right.

Yeah. And that's a lot of money for a $60,000 loan. I know it's a smaller loan as loans go, but 11% is way up there in terms of the cost.

Can you tell, Lynn, whether they're offering discount points? Is part of the reason that it's so high is they're making you buy down the rate to get to the interest rate that you're in? I think so because they offered me a whole list of this is the interest rate would be at 2.375 at this $5,200 cost.

If I wanted, I don't know, it didn't make sense because I didn't see anything lower than that. Yeah. And is this a 15-year mortgage? No, it's a 30-year. For 30 years. Okay.

Yeah. So that's the reason there's so much in there in the way of upfront costs because that rate is being bought down. That's a very low rate. How many years do you have left on your current mortgage? I've got 23 years still because I refinanced seven years ago.

Okay. And what do you owe? I'm trying to get it. How much? $0.25.

Say that again. $40,000. $40,000. And what is your current rate?

$5.25. Ah, okay. So you are bringing this down quite a bit. Well, I realize that keeping the payment low is an issue and so that's a factor here. I also realize that you need the cash out and it is truly for renovations. We're not using this for monthly cash flow for just general bills, correct? No, correct.

I meet my bills. Yeah. Okay.

You know, like when the brakes go out in the car and stuff, it gets hard. Yeah. No, I get it. And so I think the key here is I don't love the idea of you extending this for a new 30 years because, you know, the way an amortized loan works is the lion's share of the payments on the front end, the first 10 years, the vast majority is going to interest. And we're going to start that calculator over again with a new 30 years and we're going to reset the amortization so the majority is going to be going to interest.

So I'm not crazy about that. So I'd much rather you go after a 20-year mortgage, but that is going to push the payment up such that it may no longer fit with what you need to solve for in your budget. So that's one thing you need to look at. I mean, the other option would be to look at refinancing, you know, a new 20-year mortgage at $40,000 and then looking for, you know, perhaps a home equity loan or something like that to take the money out. I also don't know that you need to buy the rate down that low. You know, you may be better off given that cash is an issue, you know, taking a little bit higher rate and getting the total expenses down.

But here's the thing. There's enough moving pieces here that I'd like to probably do a little bit of a deeper dive. So if you don't mind, send an email to questions at MoneyWise.org. Let me connect you with one of our coaches to look at all of the numbers, the pieces and parts here and perhaps weigh in on this because I'd like to look at your budget. I'd like to have somebody look at the current loan, look at what you're trying to do for renovations and calculate all of this with you to determine the best course of action and that's going to be challenging in just a couple of minutes here on the radio. So the email is questions at MoneyWise.org. Mention that we spoke and I'll get you connected with a coach and we'll see if we can get you some help.

That's kind of you, Rob. Thanks very much. And Lynn, we hope we hear from you again. Thanks so much.

West Lafayette, Indiana. Nick, just a couple of minutes. What's the situation? Yes, I have a question about a 529 plan. I've looked at both the state and sort of a bank-sponsored 529 plan and from what I understand is the state-sponsored one have a lot of benefits in terms of state taxes. But I think when I look at the options for investment, I don't particularly like most of the investment options and the highest one that I saw was 10% in terms of average year-to-year rate or return. But the other side is the bank-sponsored one, I know that I could definitely get a better rate of return but I'm not sure if that gives me the same sort of benefits that the state-sponsored plan does.

Yeah. Well, what you're highlighting here, Nick, is really a central question. So with the 529 plan, which is our preferred plan for saving for college where you're going to get the tax benefits, you get essentially Roth-like growth in the account as long as the money is used for qualified education expenses or K-12 education up to $10,000. And it's a great tool but it does make sense to do some investigation to figure out which is the best plan for you because you've got to compare the in-state benefit to the state income tax deduction if one is available through the 529 plan in your state versus a superior investment performance in another state's plan. So I want you to go to savingforcollege.com.

You're going to put in all your information, your child's age, how much you're going to put away, and they're going to run an analysis to compare your state and where you live versus all the other plans in terms of performance and give you a recommendation on what's best for you. Thank you, Nick. Claire in Chicago, we're coming your way next.

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Hi, I'm Barry Maguire. I'm here to help you understand the urgency and how much fun it is to share your faith through the eyes of a layman. November 3rd is almost here, and it will be the most important election in our lifetimes. Are you preparing, studying the voter's guide to God's word and allowing to direct you on how to vote? God has given us this amazing privilege to elect those who will lead this great nation. Deuteronomy 8 and 19 tells that God is the one who gives you power to be successful. God has given Christians the power to vote.

Verse 20 goes on to say, If you ever forget the Lord your God and follow other gods, worshipping and bowing down to them, you will certainly be destroyed. Just look at the destruction and confusion causing so much division among us. That is a small taste of what could happen if Christians don't vote. Please don't waste your God-given privilege. Show your love for God and for America by voting. There's nothing more exciting than knowing God is using you to move people closer to Him.

Join us at igniteamerica.com. Some people have a hard time reading their Bibles because they think it's an old book that has little relevance for their lives today. But I think they're wrong. The Bible is a unique book. It was written over a period of 1,600 years by 40 different authors of every sort, kings and poor people and fishermen, poets, government officials, teachers and prophets. It was written in three distinctive languages on three different continents. And unlike many other books of antiquity, it's still being translated into thousands of languages.

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From the late Larry Vercat, the justification for anyone investing is that he or she has given what God has asked them to give. He has met the reasonable needs of his or her family and that they still have a surplus. 800-525-7000, Chicago, Illinois. Hello, Claire. How can we help you with your life insurance question?

Hi. Yes, I just wanted to know your opinion about the idea of a permanent life or whole life insurance as a tax shelter. Yeah.

Well, yeah. So life insurance seems like a simple concept, right? You pay a premium. When you die, the company pays your beneficiaries. But then we add this permanent life insurance, this whole life insurance, which has an investment component built into it. And that's where things can get a little complex.

And you're right. Part of your whole life premium with a whole life policy goes into a tax deferred account. So it accumulates what they call cash value over time. And with any cash value account policy, as the account grows, and you can borrow against it. And, you know, it's touted as perhaps a way to leave a legacy to your heirs and can be a good investment tool.

But the returns tend to be lower, in my view, than their comparable alternatives. And the fees tend to be higher. So that's why we advocate for buying term insurance and then saving in traditional investment vehicles. Which, by the way, if you do it in a qualified account, like a retirement account 401k or IRA, you know, you have those same tax benefits where it's deferred. And you take it out in income as income in retirement.

You're probably not going to be working at that point, perhaps. And so your tax bracket is lower and, you know, then you pull the money out. Or if you use a Roth 401k or Roth IRA, then you don't pay any tax in retirement because you're paying it upfront. So I would prefer that approach as opposed to using life insurance. Now, for somebody who's a unique situation, maybe they've maxed out all of their retirement account options at work. Or, you know, they don't have very many options or they're capped because their income is too high and they're sole proprietors, you know, self-employed. Is there a case for life insurance as a tax deferred investment vehicle?

Perhaps. But for the average person, I like the other options where you get the full amount of the upside of your investment returns with a well-diversified investment portfolio and where you buy life insurance just for the purpose it's intended. Only the death benefit, not a savings vehicle. You buy as much as you need for the period you need it, and then you stop paying for it when you get to the place where you no longer need it because you've saved and you have assets that are going to kick in.

If, you know, one of you, if you're married, one of you passes away, the other has kind of all of your assets that you've accumulated. So that's kind of a big broad overview, Claire. I don't know if that helps or if there's a specific question that you still have.

Well, that was helpful. I think it also has the long-term insurance benefits, too. I think that was why our advisor suggested that. Long-term care? Yes. Yeah.

So you're right. You can pair long-term care insurance with whole life insurance. You know, I tend, I mean, there's cases to be made for that. My preference is that you buy long-term care insurance that's just pure long-term care insurance from a provider who's really committed to that space where you're not trying to bundle it with a death benefit, but you're getting just the amount you need or you think you need in terms of a daily benefit for you to use in home care or assisted living or nursing home. With inflation riders and all the things that you need as long as it fits into the budget and probably do that as a standalone policy. That would just be my preferred option as opposed to trying to bundle all these things together, a savings vehicle and the long-term care insurance and life insurance. It just tends to be very costly in terms of the fees and expenses.

I'd rather you keep these things separate and buy just what you need and pay for that only if that helps. Claire, great question. Thank you very much for contacting us today.

West Palm Beach, Florida, our next destination. And Elizabeth, you have a question about your Roth and the election season. What's the situation there?

Oh, well, first of all, thank you for your program. Yes, I have a fairly small, about 80,000 in a Roth. So half is inherited and half is in a Roth. And the Roth is doing better, like 12%.

The inheritance is low, between 2% and 3%. So the advisor is recommending, let's go a little more conservative on the other one for now. But then we got advice from a different organization, Christian based, that's saying you can afford to actually be a little more aggressive.

So it's conflicting information. Yeah, Elizabeth, I would prefer that the investment strategy, and I never like to second guess a professional because I'm just kind of dropping in here and getting a little kind of snippet of what's going on in your life. So take this with a grain of salt, but I would prefer the investment strategy be built on your needs, goals and objectives for this season of life, as opposed to trying to time the market in some way. You know, my notes here on my screen from when you talk to our producer is that, you know, perhaps there's some element of the election season being factored in here and so forth. And, you know, the market tends to be forward looking a lot of what's going on right now with COVID and the election. By the way, did you know there's an election?

Yeah, you can't go five minutes without hearing about that, right? You know, all of that is tends to be priced into the market because it's so forward looking. And so to try to time our investment strategy for something that's so short term, I mean, a matter of weeks, not to mention, you know, other things coming in the next six months is, you know, kind of a losing game in my view. I'd rather you say, OK, what is your income needs? What is God doing in your life? When do you expect to use these assets? How much do you want to give?

And what is your tax situation? Now, let's build a portfolio that supports that, not trying to maximize the returns or beat, you know, your neighbor or, you know, outperform the S&P 500. It's really about taking as little risk as possible, but still achieving your desired results, which means this money needs to last the rest of your life to be able to fund your needs alongside whether income sources you have.

So those are the factors that I would like to see used in deciding on the appropriate investment strategy and allocation for you, as opposed to something more short term in nature that, frankly, we don't have any control over. Does that make sense, though? And tell me if you still have questions. And so we are committing it to prayer and asking God's wisdom. Yeah. OK, well, I do affirm this idea, though.

You're welcome. And I do affirm this idea, Elizabeth, that you have somebody walking alongside you that, you know, you trust, that you built rapport with and to the extent you, you know, you feel like you need to make a change there. I mean, there's plenty of advisers, you know, out there, but I don't like the idea that you're getting conflicting advice.

I'd rather see you find somebody that, you know, you can really just trust with these decisions and hopefully, you know, you're with the person that understands what you're trying to accomplish and is going to build a long term investment strategy that supports that. Elizabeth, thank you very, very much. We're going to squeeze in one last call. Elgin, Illinois and Diane, what's the situation? We have just a couple of minutes to address it. OK, thank you so much for your wisdom, for taking my call.

Happy to. It's a general question regarding, I'm the low wage earner in our family and my husband is going to keep working until he's probably past 70. We're both 66 right now. I'm eligible to receive a very small pension and I'm also eligible to apply for Social Security because I'm at the full retirement age. But is it more advisable to wait till I'm 70 to do both, to apply for both my small pension and also Social Security? Yeah, well, it really depends upon what is the benefit of waiting specifically with the pension. And so do you have an understanding? We know what it's going to be for the Social Security, but do you understand what the benefits are in terms of increases that you would receive if you delayed the pension? Not really. I was just assuming that would probably go up a little bit like Social Security does if you know the longer you wait. But I guess I don't know.

But the key is how much. You know, what we know is that every year beyond full retirement age to age 70 that you wait on Social Security, you're going to see an increase of 8 percent. And so if you don't need the money and you're healthy and you think you're going to live a long time, of course, we don't know the day or the time the Lord will return or call us home. But despite that, if you feel like you have quite a bit of time just based on everything you know today, then there is a case to be made if you don't need the money of waiting, because 8 percent a year is a pretty good return on your money, if you will.

And once you reach age 65, life expectancy for women goes up to 84 for men, 83. And so I think you could look at that. One other strategy to consider, Diane, would be you go ahead and take your smaller Social Security and then let your husbands continue to grow.

He delays his and then you get the spousal benefit on the higher amount that you could convert to later if it's more advantageous. So that would be one other option you could look at. But I think at the end of the day, if you don't need the money and you could wait and the internal rate of return on waiting makes sense, like in the case of Social Security, it may or may not on the pension.

You need to know that. Then I think you could make a case for waiting and saying, you know what, I'm going to let this continue to grow. I'm going to live on what we have now.

And then we'll have this higher payout for the rest of our lives once we start to collect. Diane, we hope that works for you. Alrighty. God bless.

Thanks. You know, I'm still thinking about Elizabeth's call, Rob, where she was talking with two different advisors, one of them a Christian, maybe both were, but getting conflicting information, not uncommon. So what does one do? Continue to gather more information, just spend more time in prayer, talk to your spouse or call the guys on the radio? Well, always call the guys on the radio.

No, you know, I think, I mean, that's not unexpected, Steve. You know, different advisors, different investment professionals have different approaches. And I think that's where we need to go into a lot of prayer. Ask the Lord to give you wisdom.

You need to spend time interviewing various investment professionals, asking a lot of questions, hopefully them asking you a lot of questions, getting a feeling for what is their investment strategy and why. And why is that right for you in this season of life based on what you're trying to accomplish? And then at the end of the day, make the best decision you can and know that you're not locked in to any of those decisions.

You could make a change at any point. Thank you, Rob. MoneyWise Live is a partnership between Moody Radio and MoneyWise Media. My thanks to our technical crew today. They include Amy, Aaron, Dan, and of course, none other than Jim Henry, the man with two first names. I hope you have a great remainder of your day. Join us again tomorrow.