Transforming Corporate America

Emotional believers engage in culture sorely in need of the gospel author and pastor Tyler Edwards writes find a way to invest yourself.

The revolution begins now and it starts with you.

Christian investors have a unique opportunity to witness for Christ Jesus research activist Christians by nature are most from West Wilkins economist Jerry Boyer for a look at how that change your calls at 800-525-7000 800-525-7000. I'm Steve Moore transforming corporate America next moneywise or we all know Jerry is economist at Biden financial but is also the president of Boyer research and that's the hat he's wearing today because the folks there have put together a blueprint for Christian investors to engage the culture. Yeah, that's exactly right Steve were talking about an amazing booklet.

The juries co-authored with Charles Boyer and Justin Dan half.

It's called the Christian's handbook for transforming corporate America.

I can't think of a more important topic. Jerry welcome back to moneywise. Always great to be with you gentlemen Jerry were excited to talk about your latest work because Christian investors really struggle with the idea of investing in companies involved in ungodly practices, but in many respects, the time is right for Christians to get involved to engage in what you call corporate activism or or what's known as corporate activism is not true. Yes, I would say the time is overdue.

Long overdue. I think people who have different views from hours on issues like the sanctity of life or moral code regarding sexual ethics and on things like freedom of religion have been working away kinda quietly for a decade or more now not so quietly because they've gotten themselves well-organized into a position of strength and I think were just sort of blinking and waking up to a world in which people who do not have the same worldview as ours who actually have a worldview that is very oppositional towards our worldview are essentially dominating almost night I take 99% of what's going on at annual meetings with proxy resolutions. We talk about those in a moment in your voting for Board of Directors and social engagement is happening from people who do not look at the world the way the typical evangelical Christian dots yeah well Jerry. I really am excited unpack all of this. One of the pieces that you write about in this booklet is something called ESG.

You know I was just reading the last week that ESG strategies are moving beyond just a trend and really going mainstream.

In fact they were talking about literally $12 billion plus inflows and just the recent. Into these ESG strategies explained that force.

What is yesterday environmental, social, and governance is what that stands for. It is probably the hottest topic in finance right now and a lot of the social stuff is where some of the problems come in.

For example, let's say we have a situation where Georgia you know once to pass a heartbeat bill. Well you activist come in and they say well that's bad Deb Neo to curtail a woman's right to choose, and it's risky to do business in Georgia and these companies should do studies I with a prearranged conclusion that it will be risky for them to do business in Georgia because people won't want to live in Georgia because they can't have complete and total easy access to abortion.

From the moment of conception to the moment of birth and so they kind of push that agenda. I saw this is actually kind of makes a lot of sense for especially governance right because you want a company where the Board of Directors are following good practices but a lot of ideological stuff is being driven through the EST is almost like a Trojan horse for bring a lot of ideological stuff in and I think that's something that we need to be very concerned about and not just concerned about Christians are good at being concerned about things you need to actually put at tweak something about the things were concerned about yes well it's exciting to see this particular space really getting some traction.

We got just about 30 seconds before first break most investors are more concerned with profit or ESG as you described.

I think when it's the investors money there mostly concerned with profit, but I think when you're talking about this kind of group of bureaucrats, middle managers, proxy advisors, you know people who you work for the corporations they get more into a like of a virtue signaling mode and so it's not their money online. So they're very happy to take stances LGBT Q stances and other stances which make them look good in their social set up, but the people's money is actually on the line I think are mostly concerned with getting a good return transforming corporate America. That's our topic today with Jerry Boyer. We have a free might want to avail yourself right back. Do you know if you have enough money of house. Do you know how much is enough.

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This today is Jerry Jerry number of times past. He, along with Charles and Justin and half have authored the Christians handbook, transforming corporate America and I were discussing it today and in just a moment will tell you how you can get a free copy Jerry. This is an important topic. I so appreciate your leadership in this area.

As believers we need to be engaging with you to be active in making our values. Nolan and influencing in doing so, and you been talking about this trend toward ESG and we just acknowledge that literally trillions of dollars on Wall Street are flowing into these funds and ETF's Jerry one is investing taking an active role. Perhaps a better approach then divesting I think it's better for the purpose of of influence. Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't divest if their conscience requires them to divest they absolutely have to follow their conscience, so I'm not saying it's bad to divest but I am saying from the standpoint of salt and light. You probably have just like in your own relationships.

Listen to someone you work with or someone is in your family and they fall into a lifestyle that you don't approve of. So where do you have more influence breaking off the relationship or actually engaging with them keeping the relationship intact and talking to them in a in a gentle and winsome and persuasive way. I think the same thing is true of our business relationships. I think the more contact we have with people, the more opportunity we have to influence them so I know some of the folks from the other side. They kind of approach divesting early on in their own strategies and in the end they decided to actually buy shares in companies they wanted influence they go to the annual meeting and try to influence them and it's done very very well for them where still a little stuck in the divest mode, which is in my opinion a low influence mode. Jerry also appreciate the teaching you've done over the years on really looking at Jesus for his example and engaging the culture what model perhaps did he leave for us in that area, which often. By the way included people of wealth. Yet Jesus dealt with a lot of people of wealth and he actually accepted contributions from people of wealth I make an argument in the block that arguably the main financers of Jesus's ministry had gotten their money and not very good way semi-clearly hung around with tax collectors.

He benefited from as financial relationships. Joanna was one of his supporters.

The Scripture tells us she was the wife of Melissa who is Herod's steward, very high up here was a very evil man. So Jesus was able to mix with these people and he was attacked for he was attacked for benefiting from his relationships with sinners, but he freely associated with sinners, but he didn't waste it.

He didn't just go to the tax collector lunch and say wow free lunch. He went to the tax collectors lunch and he taught them the truth because he said it's the sick need the doctor rather than the well sounds like engagement to me, but what about the apostle Paul would Paul have to say about associated with immoral people. It's really interesting.

Paul told the Corinthians not to associate with immoral people and then they misunderstood it made my day started like pulling back from the world. I many wrote to them again, saying on listen when I said don't associate with immoral people. I meant immoral people claim to be brothers. I didn't mean immoral people who aren't believers because to to stop associating with them. You have to go out of the world, literally.

It's what he says you have to leave the world to not associate with that. So what Paul is saying is if Christians were in good fellowship with people who were overtly and explicitly Christian and for instance having a sexual affair with their mother-in-law, which is an exact exact sample from Corinth. It sends out the message that Christianity accepts this sort of thing.

So Christians do have to be careful about not mean there is an issue of whether you who you can be in church membership with who you can be in fellowship with but that is a completely different question than who you can be in commercial and social relationships with, and in that case, Paul gave extremely broad the owner the basic rule is don't yourself participate in pagan ceremonies, but you can eat the meat that comes from them and don't do anything that is against your conscience and whatever you do don't do it in a way that lords it over other people so you have a lot of freedom but don't use that freedom to Blake Bragg or trip other people up and I think that's the approach we should take to him financial relationships.

Now we have very broad freedom. I think we should not actually participate in evil directly, and I don't think we should lorded over people who have a different view, but rather we should honor their conscience. Whether you set the stage well here. Jerry, we need to understand what her own convictions are. We need to follow her conscience, which may mean we perhaps need to avoid certain companies, but perhaps though one of the areas. As believers we missed is to engage to really lean into the vote proxies to show up at meetings to make our values known so that we can influence how do we get more information about these companies. What is the next step as we engage with companies were either direct business activities or the use of corporate profits may conflict with our values and deeply held beliefs. What part of it is just a news flow.

You probably read recently about Google deep platforming one or thing or another, or Facebook. The platforming and if and if you think that that's not what they ought to be doing, I give you great example Google owns YouTube Dennis Prager had a video up there.

Dennis Prager was sanctioned by YouTube. There was a warning put on it because it's violent content, and he inquired and what what violent content, well, it's a video about murder while those of you about the 10 Commandments he quoted thou shalt not murder.

I'm sorry that's not inappropriate for children.

I got Google clearly has its thumb on the scale when it comes to biblical content and Facebook does as well.

So a lot of you know about in the news so you can talk your financial advisor say hey I was talking to them about it you start the conversation, or if you own through mutual fund right to the mutual fund company that the emails right there on the website or if you own Google or Facebook or twitter right out right you actually go to their website and there's a place to put comments and mentioned that your shareholder I think you're something that I think we don't realize they work for us.

It's all these are our companies. The CEO is the hired help that the board is our representative to the hired help is when I can go tell the CEO what to do every day and if they're not aligning with our values. We need to talk to them about it, but don't do it don't threaten, don't call down fire and brimstone don't King James him to death just reason with them in a respectful way and it really goes a long way I talk to these companies. I thought the proxy services they never ever ever hear from people like us there. They are not even aware that we have points of view on this issue is it's really shocking how absently been in this conversation. Jerry just got a few seconds left. You really believe we can make a difference here. I mean even if I'm .00054% shareholder of a company I can make a difference.

I think you can make a difference in any room you're in. I think that one person in a room with 100 people are thousand people if they can be heard can make a difference either 10 righteous on.

That's all it would've taken to save Sodom so you know what the difference might be.

I don't know but you know what the Bible says is if you worn and they don't listen. It's on them. If you don't worn and they don't listen. It's on you, so we just have to tell them this is not the right way to do business. This is not a good way to do business you know if you are supporting abortion policies. You're not just killing future customers, but you're also doing something morally wrong or doing something that is not good in the eyes of God.

I think that has power will see what it does. But I wouldn't underestimate the ability for truth to actually change things. Transforming corporate America.

I can't think of a better thing for Christians to be thinking and praying about.

Great work a lot more to come on this. We appreciate you always a pleasure unless and you can download Jerry's book, that the Christians handbook, transforming corporate America for free at moneywise live or/resources worn today showing your calls next on moneywise.

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Maybe it's something involving insurance or giving or housing or credit to, or saving or putting your child through college or paying off your college loans give us a call to David like to chat. We have a lot of open lines 800-525-7000. Again, toll-free 800-525-7000 and Rob. Why don't we begin this. First of all let me say how great it is to speak with Jerry Bowyer, you know, whenever he's with us just reminded again of how little I know but yet is such a gentleman.

He doesn't make me feel as bad as I would. Well, he's the unique combination of a brilliant mind related to economics in the markets and really biblical scholar Jerry has deep training has been many years studying God's word and being a will to blend those two things together is really so unique and this is somebody who's he advised the Bush White House through the 08 financial crisis and has spent a lot of time on CNBC and FOXBusiness as a contributor and an analyst but also really.

Not only has a deep relationship with the Lord himself personally but really his understanding of the Scriptures just allowance allows them to eliminate these topics in such a fascinating way so we're grateful for his contribution reinsurer were blessed and honored that he join us on a monthly basis right again.

The phone number 800-525-7000 list begin by going to Durwood Maryland and Gabe, what's on your mind today all Jerry already about company and often pop and investment in them, and sometimes companies are companies that I feel are morally irresponsible and even companies that I would personally shop from where do I draw the line to what I can invest in what I should invest as opposed to going ahead and send 1%. It's not a big deal yeah well I think ultimately this comes down to a personal conviction or a conscience matter. We read in Romans, the apostle Paul talks about let each one. Be fully convinced in his own mind and I think we have an opportunity to really pray through that recognizing you are the steward of the resources God has entrusted to you and therefore you need to decide as you invest God's money and by the way, think the concept of investing for return is a very appropriate one based on what we see in God's word but how do you want to invest and I think that's really where each person needs to develop their own convictions around what's an appropriate investment.

What is it, how do I want the companies using their corporate profits or not.

And are there certain business activities that I think conflict with my values and then once you decide that I think you have the opportunity to avoid certain companies, you have the opportunity to engage in certain companies by exactly what Jerry is talking about and even embracing companies that not only are making a difference in the world. From a social standpoint of human flourishing and otherwise but also for the Kingdom standpoint and the good news.

Gabe is there's more opportunity than ever before for you to do just that.

In terms of a particular mutual fund companies where you could, you know be investing in things that make the world rejoice certain mutual funds and ETF's that will avoid certain companies through screening that conflict with the values of believers, and even as Jerry was talking about corporate engagement, so I'd start reading up on it couple of places you can go to learn more would be Eventide funds.com Eventide funds.com some wonderful friends and partners of ours here at moneywise live and they do a lot of writing on this topic. You can also check out inspire investing.com and they have a free screening tool where you could put in any stock mutual fund or exchange traded fund and you'll get a score that will allow you to see how they are rated on all of these issues were talking about many of which that are important to believers.

So, I would lean into this. Start learning and perhaps select an investment professional who understands faith-based investing and can make sure that he or she advises you or selects on your behalf. Investments that align appropriately with your convictions and that's where a certified kingdom advisor there in Maryland would be a great help to you as well so just head over to any one of those two sites or to our site@moneywiselive.org and click on find a CK great question gave only hope that helps you. Thank you very much. 800-525-7000 give us a call. Nashville, Indiana.

No Nashville, Tennessee. Sorry about that, Deborah.

You are in Tennessee right we can hear your great things. How can we help you know client that really really well and I after four years I wonder what you regarding influencing client or attracting client reflect God's heart and I want my business client. I want to know them. Many people act like I think about my life when I might thousand dollars.

Many is really helpful and I want to give you an answer, but we have to break here so will take that break the other side as well.

Deborah in Nashville Tennessee.

I'm Steve Moore.

There, he's Rob West, 805 five 7000 investing is more than just returns.

It's an expression of who you are and what you value is the way you invest your money like your identity as a Christian that eventide we design investments for performance and a better world so you can invest with the confidence to reach your financial goals while remaining true to your Christian values and commitments.

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Conway was the president's campaign manager during the stretch run of the 2016 race starts punishing higher today, but I'll gain 370 points and Azteca had 67. The SMB was up 34 this is SRN news moneywise live on Steve Moore, Rob West taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000 we have Deborah on the line from Nashville Tennessee and Rob. Deborah has a business. Obviously she's a believer, but some of her clients occasionally spend quite a bit of money. She's a little concerned about that to stand at this point Deborah appreciate so much your thoughts and I know your business is struggling a bit, as so many are in the midst of the coated pandemic and you're really just wrestling through, how potentially to walk alongside your clients as they make these decisions, and here's what I would say ultimately they are the stewards that God has entrusted these resources to so I think where you can have the most influence is really just being a godly witness and how you serve them, reflecting Christ obviously being above reproach in all that you do working as unto the Lord because you're really working for him. We serve an audience of one, I think are generous with your time and even with the resources God entrusted to you, but I perhaps would be less concerned about somebody who's using God's money to buy new improvements in their home or you buy furniture, fixtures that are upgraded because at the end of the day. We don't know what they're doing with God's resources.

We don't know how they're using them. This may be a small portion of what they have and you know they've decided to Their income and give 90% of it away but ultimately that's between them and the Lord so I think the opportunity is for you to be faithful and serving them. Certainly reflecting Christ in all that you do, but not necessarily calling out any particular transaction or way they're using God's money because we just don't know the full story of what God is doing in their life and what other ways they may be using the resources God has entrusted to them to even further his kingdom doesn't make sense though on remodeling Grande year multiplied micro I think I might limit home really all you my money and time wisely and it was okay for me to be promoting is all about how you do it and what your heart attitude is in terms of really wanting to honor the Lord and the end of the day you're the steward of what God has entrusted to you. So you're going to have to stand give an account for that, as will they been included in that category. So we will all give an account what have we done with what we've been given. Have we been found faithful and that's really ultimately what you're responsible for, and there is this tension between especially as believers, how much should we. What should our lifestyle be and what if we been blessed with more than we need, and what is our responsibility to care for the least of these, and those that are clearly on the heart of God throughout Scripture, and what should we be doing in each of us need to search your hearts. Each of us need to establish a financial finish line.

Each of us need to be talking to the Lord about that but I don't think as a business owner that's necessarily your place to challenge those decisions other than just to reflect Christ in all that you do and be found faithful with what he entrusted to you by great question Deborah and you are totally correct and in considering it, Rob. I remember a time when someone came to me and said that they were offended that someone in the church had just spent about $10,000 to go on a cruise. We talked about it a bit but then I remembered a person who spent about $10,000 on some photography equipment and nobody seem to have any real issues with that.

So sure was the $10,000 is much as it was.

Oh, one person seeing one thing it's extravagant somebody else seeing photography equipment is being less than extravagant.

So it's hard to exactly right. And I think again it comes down to.

I'm responsible to care for what God has entrusted to me and I need to be found faithful in that pretty expensive sure you got out today. Just use the Internet out only see none of those Indianapolis, Indiana where they had a big race yesterday Ed how are you today sir, I'm doing fine how are you doing wonderful. Thank you. What's on your mind on your show the other day somebody mentioned that there were like 2300 verses in the Bible that mention money that sends our time and I was wondering do you not have a resource or some sort of book that lists those for like any reference yeah we doing just a quick back story where that came from to the former host of this program, Howard Dayton who's authored a number of books on biblical finance. Actually, as a new believer, a baby Christian was in a men's small group that decided to explore the Scriptures related to money and so they took many weeks sitting in a conference room a couple times a week to go through and look at every passage in the Bible and cut out those that dealt with money and possessions and net worth, and they stack them up literally the printouts of every page they cut them out physically and stacked them in piles based on the category and what was the funniest part of that story was Howard being a new believer in this more seasoned Christian decided they would partner in doing this in the more seasoned believer said let's divide the Bible in the middle you take the Old Testament and New Testament didn't realize what he was getting into. The bottom line is at the end of that process, they counted them up and there was more than 2300 of them, which is just incredible. And it's what we spend our time doing here on this program was mining those Scriptures so we can apply them to today's financial decisions now to your question where you get those well.

A couple places you can go. I have a book sitting on my desk that I love. It's not in print anymore, but there's still some copies available of it.

It's called the word on finances and it's by the late Larry Burket and it's a resource of topical Scriptures and commentary and I probably use it just about daily.

You can still get used copies on Amazon or eBay. Again, it's called the word on finances and they're all organized by category and I love it was published by Moody wonderful publishing house that's a part of the Moody Bible Institute where this program is brought to you by so it's called the word on finances.

Another would be a newer resource put out by the American Bible Society, and it's called the stewardship Bible. Here's what they did.

Working with Howard Dayton, who I mentioned before they went through and identified all 2300 of them and they're all highlighted in green. It's called the stewardship Bible and I'd encourage you to pick up a copy and I think between one of those to add you'll have exactly what you're looking for. Actually, it's the financial stewardship Bible just so that you don't go looking for something that isn't out there and it's it's a wonderful resource and we still have some in the warehouse we do well we know will just push you right through to Amazon's if you go to our website moneywise. I.org and click on the store you'll see the financial stewardship Bible. There are library and it really is a wonderful resource and Howard Dayton is put this together along with her friends at the American Bible Society's Rob pointed out a couple thousand.

Scriptures already highlighted for you in green. There is a study section for personal or group use.

There's a 40 day devotional written by Howard Dayton as well. So lots of good ammunition there that will help you study God's word when it comes to money and finance and were really glad you called today and wish you the best with that.

Thanks very much.

Now let's see, Michael is in West Palm Beach.

Lee is in Chicago, Terry in Austin but we will ask you please to exercise a little bit of patience because that music in the background will execute the meaning we have to have another station break.

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Now he's in West Palm Beach, Florida, and Mike, what's on your mind what you questions are coming thousand dollars and I got 20% down. At that point there being a part-time homebuyer help yeah you would probably be able to find Michael depending on your income and your credit score, you'd probably be able to find a lender who would do allow you to put less than 20% down.

We just don't recommend it. I'd rather you hold off continue to keep your lifestyle in check so you have margin that you can put toward savings.

The benefit of having that 20% down payment is a twofold number one you can avoid the private mortgage insurance, which is not going to do you any good.

It's just protecting the lender, but it's an added monthly cost and then the second issue is just related to having very little equity in the home and if we were to hit another.

After the incredible run up. We've had over the last 10 or 11 years in the housing market where the housing market worded to rollover and begin to head down for a period of time where you wouldn't get yourself in a position where your upside down and you owe more than the house is worth already elect liquid asset becomes very liquid. At that point and you kind of stuck.

So I would just prefer you delay this purchase until you can go in with the 20% down, but at the end of the day it comes down to your budget and what you're willing to do and you know there's lenders that will do all kinds of things doesn't mean it's in your best interest, though, so I prefer you hold often delay the purchase okay presurgical.

Thanks, Michael Bob 20% down, three to thousand dollar home, so that's a lot of money $60,000. You and Shay stumbled on, that is, at first it sounded like a lot of is reasonable expectation of us have Michael save up $60,000 before he can get into the cells. Well, it is because here's a way that typically works usually start with a starter home.

That's not $300,000. You might start with a home. It's 100 or hundred and 50 and so now you're saving 20 or $30,000 and then that home appreciates and as you're paying it down, it's growing in value so that when you sell it you pill your equity out and you got quite a bit more than that you're ready to roll it into something a little bigger because the Lord may bless you with kids or you need some more space or whatever it is you start small and you step up from there. Always checking the budget and your ability to save as the guide makes real sense. Thanks Chicago Lee, I understand your drive. Kind of a fun car I bought it new in 2004 I publish it on, but I think cash for I love the car.

It has 80,000 miles on it and almost I would say 75% of those miles are Highway II do a lot of road trip. Listeners tells within the kindnesses Mini Cooper okay I don't know if you can get the color I know you guys like you know I'm glad you mentioned that Leah because Steve has this uncanny ability when just hearing the description of the car to know exactly what color it is. And it's amazing for analysis and route you need to know the humidity has been unseasonably high here in this area that's only days it's it's affected going with Radley yellow new. See that's what saying I know that I picked up yellow with a white roof.

I apply your behind other fun cars, but I understand what is required a lot of work. You're wondering if you should continue to pour money into this right right coming to me. I've had the car for 16 years. In the last five years.

I would say on average, maybe from 1000 to 2000. Now that's regular maintenance. I'm one of those people that always always always do everything that I need to do. So here's my question. I don't. I love the car no longer make this one I want to keep it forever.

I don't mind and I cannot. I can afford whatever the maintenance fee invite you know it's just part of keeping the car. So here's my question. I was offered by the dealer where I bought the car 1500 to 2004, which to me is just no way I love this card too much. So why me and I want to call if I possibly can. And I realize I'll be putting more into that. Why and what would you do if you were to sell this and even if you were to sell it as a private sale and try to get the most you can. What would you do then to replace. I would get another used mini Cooper and I will try to find the exact same one that I have another word I want to keep this car would you go for another 2004 would you get a newer car, I would have to get a newer one because they no longer make this one sure sure well you know we were always going to advocate that you drive it as long as you can. You certainly done that you love this car. So it's more than just you know the investment that you made because there's a real emotional attachment to this particular vehicle. If you're going to sell at a private sale is where you're going to be able to get the most value out of the car and so I would certainly recommend you do that, as opposed to the dealer, but beyond that, I think it's really just a function of your budget how much you have saved. Clearly, 2004 is quite an old car and the reliability and the cost of maintenance for the Mini Cooper is well frankly middle-of-the-road in terms of reliability and repairs and maintenance are on the higher end if you just look at the studies and so forth.

But you have this car because you love it, that's great. As long as you can afford the newer one but I think economically just from a dollars and Stinson standpoint, if you can buy a newer well taking care of five mini Cooper that's been checked out by a reliable mechanic. You're certainly good to be better off because you're getting into that territory where you can be probably throwing more and more money at it and it's going to become cost prohibitive, but Steve you agree with all that I agree with all that. And of course the old rule of thumb used to be.

If the repair or the repairs are going to cost as much or more as the value of the car than is probably not a good investment. So all our other repairs. You have to do right now Lee know know right now long 6000 mile road trip and I don't do much driving to the city. Right now it go.

I laughed it somewhat repairs. I don't anticipate any more right now driving in Chicago with all the salt and stuff but I think I wanted to drive into the wheels fall off, but I don't want to be stupid about it where you need to just monitor the repair costs and the Steve said when they start to exceed the vehicles value which is probably on the high end around $3000. It's time to get a new yeah and were glad that you let it leak as they are fun fun cars you love yours driving a little bit longer rev a limit enjoying and then pray and ask God to direct you to the next fun car there out there I consider the Miata also known as the MX okay Austin, Texas Terry, thanks for holding. We have a few minutes left. What can we do for you, calling question about what amount in common. No credit caught out in current market that would be yeah you know Terry, I appreciate that rundown I don't like the idea of funding income through debt you got this home. It sounds or gets free and clear, that's great. You've worked hard to keep your expenses low. And so beginning to take money against the home just to have in reserves when you don't have a specific purpose in mind, you don't really have a clear plan to pay back other than perhaps taking more along the way to supplement your income. I just don't think it's a good strategy. So what I'd rather you do is go back to that spending plan.

Take a hard look at it see what you can do to try to live within that 3500 a month that you have coming in.

If you just can't then I think really the next option to look at which I realizes a big deal, but it's really the next option is to look at perhaps selling this particular property and downsizing buying something a little bit smaller.

This can require less maintenance just recruit reduce your overall costs, perhaps less in the way property taxes and insurance just to again get yourself within the provision that God has provided and hopefully have a little bit a margin so that systematically each month you could be continuing to add to that emergency reserves without having to fund that through the use of debt. So really is. That's easier said than done, but directed our money wise coaches Terry Scott moneywise live.org. Click on connect with the coach to walk alongside you as you evaluate all this and perhaps give you some new ideas on how you can dial back your spending without using Terry great question and we pray that the union husband will I hear God's voice on this and we wish you the very best. Thank you very much and Rob that's about it for today. Thank you sir. Come back tomorrow and do it all over again. I can't wait see tomorrow.

Have a great day moneywise live this radio program is a partnership between Moody radio and moneywise media. Thanks so much for joining us today and being with this.

I want to thank all the technical crude this afternoon our executive producer is Judy kroner engineer is Amy Rios the phones today. Aaron Houlihan and of course are written. A researcher none other than Mr. likes it when we called Mr. Mr. Jim Henry, the man with two first names and again, thanks so much for being with us will come back tomorrow will do it again will have some great information for you and of course will be taking your calls on anything financial. Remembering that this program is where timeless wisdom of God's wisdom biblical wisdom meets today's financial choices and decisions. Thanks for listening. Join us again tomorrow