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September 22, 2019 8:00 am
Hi everyone, I'm David Chadwick and talk 11 to 99 free WBT welcome to the show in case you don't know this is a faith and values program to try to intersect faith and values to different people and opportunities in life. It's always a pleasure doing the show.
Thank you to my sponsors Ruth Chris steakhouse and also Peary's fine jewelry without you. I could not do the show on a weekly basis. Now running 20 years. It's hard to believe what a great ride. It's been what, today I have in studio with me, friend, but is also well known to many of you as a former North Carolina basketball player a head coach of the University of North Carolina, but just a great guy Matt Doherty met is great to have you on the show today. Well David, thank you for having me on the show. It's really need to be reading it united with you in this way yeah Alice great. Just have a chance to get to know you better and to help have our listeners get to listen to your life story and where you are in life and some of the things you've learned that life just throws at you that you really only faith can teach you, and that's one of the places were going to go yes sir, we both can talk about what answer can and we will Matt do you were raised.
Where I'm from Long Island, New York, raised Irish Catholic and you know it's funny because when I chose to go University, North Carolina. Biggest concern my mother had was losing my faith all really yes and Coach Smith as only he could do reassured her that you know he would make sure that I went to church and follow through with my faith, which Coach got for Joyce took us to church on Sunday mornings, even on the road, when you were there.
Did you have to bring the bulletin back to prove you actually going to worship in my days.
That's what he asked us to do and Coach Smith how to do it for my mother is more important.
Encouragement was great recruiting. The mom's white all yeah yeah and then in turn then my mother recruited Dave Thompson's mother Dave Thompson being Irish, not Irish but Catholic from Pennsylvania and had similar concerns. So my mother had to tell you. Note not had to, but was willing to talk to Mrs. Pops and reassure yes Smith was the best. Yeah, he's quite a remarkable man now we both were influenced by his life and can't begin to describe people get into that later on in the show but John said he went to to North Carolina and after that what happened yeah I've played on some great teams unit with Michael Jordan.
James really Sam Perkins Kenny Smith Brad darty Elwood Kenny Smith.
I think I ready set go down the line with some great teams and I think we have talent but we're think good guys that liked each other and played the way Coach Smith wanted us to play in you. We talk about values and and you know he would always say play heart play smart, hard, smart together and I think we did that and if we did that on a consistent basis. We have a good chance to win each game, and so I was a real treat.
And sometimes a pinch myself to have that experience at the University of Carolina yeah I still have days where I wonder why in the world that he recruit me privilege that was to be a part of that program to go back up there for Letterman reunion yes to be a part of that incredible family. Even now, with Roy contingency because Williams done a tremendous job of continuing the tradition making all former players feel welcome and after Carolina and what did you do.
I worked on Wall Street. I try to play little worst days of my life was draft a 1984 and I got chosen in the six round by George Carlin the Cleveland Cavaliers in looking back was probably a favor. Coach Smith, but in a six round didn't feel like a favor.
But six rounds anymore they only have two rounds so that was a very hard pill to swallow, and I got cut by the Cavaliers and went to Wall Street and Nikon equated to a girlfriend breaking up with you and you like. I don't need you anymore. Going in the opposite direction and went to Wall Street. Tommy Kearns was on Wall Street and had an influence on me and thought well I'll be like you don't, Tommy, and after about four years.
I realize that in love bond yields and I quit my job and moved to Charlotte thinking is going in the real estate business in 1989 because I felt like Charlotte would be the next Atlanta and I would like to pat my back on the self on the back about the vision there right on that. It was I was yeah and and so I interviewed with people like Johnny Harrison Childress Klein and all these other companies and started doing radio Davidson and started coaching AAU team and Jeff McGinnis was the point guard on that team that I coached and Charles Weddell you both Carolina guys was mice was on staff with me when I fell in love with coaching and then ended up coaching with Bob McKillop Davidson when he took over because Bob was my school coach and then you went to Kansas and coach with Roy for seven years there, he didn't Notre Dame the available years and then I thought I'd be at Notre Dame forever. Roy turned job down to North Carolina and fell in my lap. There you were now in North Carolina's head coach and I want to talk to you more about that in just a moment because that that's a part of your life experience you have formed you in shape. You still have still today me when you go through those kind of experiences you can't help but never be the same correct Matt Doherty's my guest today former North Carolina great hit head coaches at different institutions all around America ESPN broadcaster as well and I job Dave job well today.
Your job is to be my guest. Focus on handling everyone, I'm David said it will be right back. I think were ready for round two. Matt Doherty here and when I'm David Chadwick and this is news talk Limited 993 WBT welcome back to the show. For those of you who may not know when it's hard to believe you don't know, but Matt was a part of the North Carolina basketball program on 82 national championship team coach Smith's first national chance right and I bring that up to every former player you know they all like to think that that yes like big any family like on the favorite child. Well we know the favorite teams.
We were his first chambers champion so you know a man on the challenge.
I know you will have enough time. You know I'm right what I'm saying one thing that allows me to have one small claim to fame is not really a great one. But in 1971 my senior year we lost to South Carolina who was then still in the ACC in the finals ACC turn on a tragic error had tipped Tom a choice that I like Kevin Joyce and Lee Dedman of New York. What we went to the NIT in New York City and we blew through the NIT. That was back when the NIT was still very pristine. Just only 16 teams went to the NCAA 16 teams then went to the NIT so will played some really good teams like Massachusetts really serving was our first opponent there about. We one that going away the one thing that came close to us and so I've always said Smith's first national championship was now that's I guess that's okay you Charlotte. I've got one question for you on that 82 team when the national champion ship game was being played against Georgetown. I have always heard that in the huddle for that last play. When Jordan hit the shot to win the national chairmanship. Coach Smith said now our first option is gonna be Matt Doherty. Is that true urban legend that that's I don't that's not even suburban like that. I know that I don't recall that at all. I do remember I think he went around to everyone of us and said if you're open, knock it down, which I thought was great because you never knew and and and they were playing a zone and there was no shot clock and so you want to give everyone confidence and and I remember him. I believe I know you said that to me. He might've whispered to me didn't want to say you know if if by chance you you know you are wide open and have a 2 foot Leupp and Patrick Ewing felt that I don't knock it down, but I think he said that to everybody this is so calm.
I think that was the overriding feeling you got in that timeout. You know when the things I tell every potential college player that I intersect with is make sure you choose a coach that 30 years from now you can be proud played for and I know you feel that way. I feel that way.
What's the one lesson Coach Dean Smith taught you that you carried on for the rest of your life. I don't live theirs that can't really be. You can't choose one because there are so many, and they often just pop up.
I think that it's like your parents, you know, as a kid you really arise when a parent say something and then also in your parent and your repeating what your parents said in your kids roll their eyes at you so, but I think that this is so many in the week we will have enough time in the show but thing that pops up a lot to me is praise the actions what repeated. I think that is something that I use consistently.
I do some leadership coaching, consulting with corporations and teambuilding and I think that that is probably the number one thing is praise and the actions you want repeated because it sets the tone in an organization.
When you catch somebody doing something right.
Other people in the organization want to get that acknowledgment to and I remember watching tapes of when you were playing in Bobby Jones and Coach Smith called them training tapes and show clip of Bobby Jones just reversing the basketball from the top of the key and and praise Bobby Jones on the unselfish act of just moving the ball and oh by the way. It's ironic how that's become such a big thing in the NBA is ball reversal changing sides of floor. Coach Smith preached that all the time and the thing was, Bobby Jones is a great player but I could do that, you know, and so I your instinct is to well I want him to praise me and if that's always asking I can do that and then maybe in years to come.
He'll show a tape of me reversing a basketball so all those things come to go through your mind to get people to do the right thing is he always said play the right way, did you know Michael Jordan was going to be as good as he became later on I left Carolina I was get the three most famous questions are did you think Michael Jordan was going to be that good is Dean Smith really is nice a guy's a say in his is Michael Jordan nice guy. Okay, let's answer all of them and I will therefore ask you to take a break and I'll answer the question unanswered and the first question, when Michael is no like I think I reviewed the NBA players so much that I'm thinking you mentioned, you know, Dr. Jerry now I grew up on Long Island. I was a net fan when he was with the New York Mets main to say that Michael can be better than Dr. JI couldn't understand that.
And Michael so when we played even though he is so good, especially his freshman year you thinking you like to say he project is going be one of the best ever but the step that he took that really got my attention. Besides the obvious his freshman year, hitting the game shot when Erin was the summer after his freshman year is confidence in his strength grew in. We know how we always played the pickup games in the summer and all these NBA players would come back and guys like Walter Davis was All-Pro, whose Charlotte native come back in was one of best players ever jersey in a rafters. Remember Michael going at Walter in a pickup game in Carmichael and saying to myself I was in the stands saying Michael show him more respect as jerseys in a rafters and Michael's best player in court and were talking about you know Phil Ford Dudley Bradley Walter Davis Elwood Mitch Kupchak, Tommy the guard and Michael's best player in court, so that's when it hit me that okay is pretty good now you know.
And then when he was a rookie and he scored 45 points again like oh my gosh I can't believe it may take into a new love is. Coach Smith is nice a guy as everybody seems to think he is, I think so. I think you know he certainly has his edge, which you can't, you have to have it, you can be in a competitive environment like that and understands the political landscape of an institution of the state, but his his money. Graciousness is ability to go out of his way to make people feel comfortable his thoughtfulness to like when I was coaching. There was a book that came out about Coach Smith in and it was you know leading up to the gym should gain and you know he would praise different players for the things they did and then in the book it said well we missed the foul shot with 30 with the minute 30 to go. That would've put us up three or something like that.
The front end of 101. Well we missing the fast that it was me Matt darty that missed fashion so I saw him. Soon thereafter, in the Smith Center, Nessa coach. Thank you for doing that and not mentioning my name that Matt darty Mr. foul shot but you didn't have to do that like to go out of your way in a book that let's say 250 pages you've written books, you know, to go over it with that fine tooth comb and pick that out and make sure that my name wasn't associated with the missed foul shot at the end of a national change of game that could cost him the chairmanship was unbelievable. You know I had that grueling experience with losing the game in the 71 ACC tournament finals. I was in the game of the time with gumball occurred and I've always wondered if I made a mistake thousand the wrong place or whatever and it took like 12 years later. As with coach Smith Jessica job just got a note did I goof up was I the reason we lost that game and with almost a smile on his face.
Maddie looked at me and said David.
He said coaches win games and coaches lose games players when that is all he would say he would even answer my question that coaches lose game players when the best graciousness. He's a gracious man in the world, flawed and in you know and sometimes we put people up on spec pedestals and you know they are human, but those those qualities are our unbelievable remarkable human was the third question will quickly with deliberate Michael Jordan a good guy. That's right yes and he yes Michael is a good guy, loyal like extremely loyal to his friends and former players and something that I you know I don't wear it out but I could text Michael Hill text me back within 30 minutes and it's very nice to him very gracious special little demands on his time. While amazing ability to be able to say you played for Dean Smith.
He played with Michael Jordan and how that must've influenced your life you mad as you look at your life and look back on you if you had to counsel any leader today looking at coach Smith how he treated you.
What you've learned about leadership will be one leadership lesson, you would give well I do counsel. I have a leadership practice. David that I started this summer and I work with the companies I give keynote speeches.
I have presentations, workshops that I do and I think that the number one thing, two things I talk about is praising the actions you want repeated talk about that all time and I talk about the failure and how that it's not a bad thing that you have to learn from it nest Nelson Mandela says I don't lose either when will I learn and I think that's huge is that it's okay to fail people do in the only thing that you become a failure if you don't learn from it and move forward. We know coach Smith is his being isms as we sometimes affectionately call them or in our hearts. And if you'd asked me what's the one coach Smith lesson he taught you. It's in this vein is that famous phrase he uses a lot when you make a mistake not if but when you make a mistake admitted quit it, forget it. And that's so true you know you own up to it and you learn from it and then you move on because you can't continue to stay in the quagmire of that difficult mistake that you made him so that it's fun to look back and hear you say these things because they bring to mind so many truths that he taught me as well Matt, we gotta go to break alight when we come back. I want to talk to you about your one of your most challenging moments in life and that is when you were the head coach at University North Carolina and the both of us talk about how you handle difficult situations when you feel like you failed. I'm David Chadwick. This is news talk 11 1099.
Three WBT. I'll be back in just a moment when I'm David Chadwick and this is talk 11 to 99.
Welcome back, show if you'd like to hear the program with Matt darty and his perspective on life ship and will go to get in the failure in just a moment, please go to the podcast go to WBT.com scroll down to the weekend shows. Look for the David Chadwick show and you can hear this show from its beginning to end.
Well Matt, let's talk about the probably the most challenging time of your life.
I would guess.
And that's when you became the head coach at the University North Carolina. Again, as you alluded earlier you at Notre Dame thought you be there for lifetime. A good Catholic boy at them right important Catholic institution in America and what turns down the job in North Carolina.
To the surprise of everyone, Rex, and suddenly they turn to you after a very successful season at Notre Dame and you become the head coach of the University of North Carolina tell us what's going on with you at that time in your life. Oh gosh, just getting settled had a very good season at Notre Dame. We have good recruits coming in and I remember calling coach Smith from vacation and this was the end of June and saying you know, asking coaches and you know when like you use the term when before.
Not if but when coach Williams takes the job.
If Kansas calls me. What should I do should I entertain Kansas or should I entertain the state Notre Dame really see your question was, succeeding Roy yet hands at Santa's that time. Yes, because everyone assumed interest. Boy was going to take the job.
Yeah, and he said to me he said well it's not a done deal here yet you're still on the short list and I chuckled and said oh that's a no-brainer like I know no you don't. Do you treat favor true even dreamed about it and so laughed and then literally a week later I'm in his sitting down in an office with coach Smith in the Smith Center and he says you know we talk you know and and one thing I want to hear them say was, you know that your job you run it how you see fit. That's right.
That's what I needed to hear that and so that's what convinced me I could take the job because you heard that from here.
Yes, and you thought now you can take I could take the job because you never was saying well he want to run the program and you just be a puppet to control you and I'm like so I heard him say that, but then he said well can you take the job us alive got it talk to my wife. This is a big decision. He said will just typical coach Smith you.
You'll feel you'll get this is just last week he said it was a no-brainer and I said well I never forgets anything as of yet and I said coach at last week. I didn't really realize I was a candidate and so so I flew back with my wife and I'm on the plane private jet and with my wife and I said you know I could be the head coach, North Carolina, or the head coach at Notre Dame and that sounds wonderful right but sometimes when you have two big decisions a big choice. It's not easy to make that decision. A decision of that magnitude.
And so yeah well so you become the head coach at the University of North Carolina and you're not just succeeding Dean Smith your succeeding Bill Guthrie Resch, who was my freshman coach there when I came in and had been by coach Smith side for those 36 years, a legend in his own way and now Matt darty is the head coach right this incredible basketball program. Matt what's going on in your mind will first of all, that'll happen. The late coach got through to retired the end of June or middle of June, which is weird here fairly unexpectedly. Well you will not a lot goes into that.
You know why June and coach Smith. As you know, this is where your biggest rancher biggest weakness right and we all have coach Smith strength is control and political savvy and trying to be loyal to people and you know in doing so it kind of backfired when Roy Williams and take the job and so he didn't have a plan BI guess at that, knowing no no and so you know, then I take the job. July 11 now if you know those that no college basketball understands allies the busy recruiting. Private most important months in college basketball besets when you're out evaluating talent and and letting kids know that you want them because of your presence at games.
So I started that recruiting. Out with the Notre Dame Polo on and all of a sudden July 11 somewhere in the Carolina Polo go to see Carmelo Anthony in Baltimore. That's not good David to make that transition. At that time because I really needed to be with the staff I needed to be with the players. I need to spend time with Linda Woods, Ruth K Angela or mean and and the players, but I got recruit because recruiting suffered quite frankly, at the end of coach got for just 10 young just stating facts and when I got got the job.
I told Dick Dorsett. My first you will be good for some good leftover players like Brendan Haywood and Joe forte and I said my next you were not in my third year will be rebuilding. Are you okay with that and he said yes. Well what was going to say you and so I had to go out recruit and that was it on bring my staff in this Joe thing. I asked Bill the door is okay if I bring my staff because it is not in the state Notre Dame because what it coach Smith teach us loyalty right you know, so I am loyal to my staff because they put me in position to have a successful year at Notre Dame and so on. Looking leave them out in the cold and so Dick Dorsett yes coach Smith didn't like that you know deep down he did not like felt like you should've been loyal to the North Carolina horizons. The family and and so that was that. That was not a good first impression. However, coach Smith said to me that your program run, how you see fit. But deep down I don't think he meant that at that point he was recruiting me and and that's that's where I wasn't experienced enough savvy enough to manage that this is such a unique situation and I was young and elegant head coach one year in, you know, see the coach mythical structures there for 36 she hurts it up with 39 years and so it was all new to everybody. I don't think Dick Dewar really knew how to manage it. Coach Smith you know his plan blew up when coach William said no. All of a sudden I'm coming in. If I had to do it again I would be the state. Notre Dame or I would've understood okay coach Smith is saying it's my program, but he doesn't really deep don't want that.
So I would've allowed Coach Smith to run the program through me a little bit more and I would've figured out a way to bring my staff with me and kept the staff in place and said to Dick. Hey we need to keep the guys here right, but I need to bring my guys with me now so we need to expand or expand our budget and create some positions to take care of everybody and you don't that's what is experienced so as you prophesied to dig manure that's exactly what happened the first year you're pretty good the second year was not good direct worst source year, he began to build within they didn't have the patience to let you see that next team began to blossom and bloom correct.
I think a couple things.
One, Sean Mae broke his foot at Christmas we go from not being ranked to being ranked 12th in the country beat Roy Williams in Kansas in the garden in the preseason and IT pretty soundly and his team and come off the final four and that team was going to the final four, but nothing was more than that.
I think that one there was little dissension in the in the ranks in terms of former players and inside the building.
I didn't have the full support and in some of that was created by me and some of the decisions that I made early on that one supported and in my style was a little rough. You know, as opposed to coach got virgin Coach Smith. So a lot of that just bubbled up in you know I think coach Smith ultimately really wanted Roy there and I thought Roy was the right choice from the beginning so yeah there was a lot of lot of Lotta politics in that situation that you don't realize the stress you're under two year out of it. So Matt, you look back and we only have about a minute nap. We have to go to break again Melissa Quinn sent the final segment and that is as you look back what you learn.
Yeah, well, as it is a set earlier. You don't you don't lose you as Nelson Mandela said either win or you learn, and I think that's the attitude I try to take was that as a player and as a coach when you lost again, would you do you watch the film you figured out your mistakes and you want to practice and try to get better and that's what I did. I went on a leadership journey through the help of John Black was a buddy of mine here in Charlotte pointed me in that direction took leadership courses at the Darden school at Wharton with Jerry Bell whose renowned leadership guru in Chapel Hill really try to learn about myself and and get better when you really did learn a lot because we talk some about it and in the last segment I really want to talk about the faith part that helped you in moving forward and you how we help people out there who had life crises and gone through them and are asking the question were from this cannot really keep going on and how can life still makes this to me perfect. Matt Doherty's my guess time, David Chadwick, this is news talk 11 to 99. Three.
WBT will be everyone, I'm David Chadwick is limited 993 and my guess that Doherty will kill out a great on the 80 to 19 national championship team also hit coach.
It was Carolina Notre Dame doing a consulting leadership work now also doing some broadcasting on ESPN medicine is been fascinating talking to you. You went through three years in North Carolina and you are ultimately dismissed in one of the most painful moments of your life and not going through something similar know you have recently and that we both share what that's why that happens is we got Scott and we both learned a lot through that and I think what this final segment is two questions. One is worded your faith play a part of your recovery for moving forward in your life and also what's the one major lesson, you take away from that and I want to add very quickly something that I've come to realize and probably didn't pay as much attention to as a North Carolina fan back when, but you really want on his 2005 national championship with your players. Those guys you Creek recruited and brought in those were your guys that he won a national championship with and every time I get a chance. Now I say to people you need to remember those were Matt's guys and if he stayed yet. Who knows he might one that national champion life as well. Appreciate that. That's very nice of you.
I think of the thing that I looked down, look look at.
First of all, it's called face right so you you gotta believe before you see proof yeah you know and so as your falling. I felt like I was free falling in my safety net. Your safety that is always been coach Smith and UNC, but now I was dismissed from that. So I didn't have a safety net and I felt like I was falling off the Empire State building and I was getting ready to crash and I think God was there to catch me but let me fall because a lot of us like oh my gosh and get ready hit the pavement and I almost feel like you that's been 2003, so that's 716 years on pretty sharp. That's pretty quick.
Math is good for you. Thank you that I just feel like I'm being caught right now. I thought that was like a 16 year fall, God, I think I felt like God came out of the sky and slap me in the back of her head and said you know what to much too soon you not handling it real well and that took me on this journey. This leadership journey really to learn and grow in God doesn't promise a butcher, whatever, how, you're the pastor, so you should know, like, you know, Matthew 512 I can give you the verse I want okay I like this is you know this is the cliff notes but that God doesn't put pop promise you a smooth path now in Jesus in John 1633 in this world you will have tribulation. There you go.
I know you clearly make a good team like I point to the pastor. Now David the back.
As I was going to as I is so you so it drew me close, who when things are going well. Often says, oh God, thank you so much they think like they they did they deserve it.
You will but when things go poorly even nonbelievers. I think say dear God, please help me get through this. What's the elephant said statement when people are going to crisis all my God, even the atheists is that I got so you really believe in yellow and and so I think that it draws you closer to him and and you realize you I'm not going to be defined by being that bashful coach you on how your identity that are not who you are and as I've had to say my identity as a being a pastor of a church identity is found in our relationship with God. Go. Amen. So I think that UIs leadership in life is a journey there's no finish line. And so the thing that I'm so excited about right now and I talk about this in my leadership practice is like my motto is learn and grow and someone said to me in 2003 your lifelong learner and I never heard that term before in and is so powerful. Mike yeah yeah kind and like you know you should ignore disciple means were that's what it means to be a disciple of Jesus. That's what the term actually means pupil learner student so you're just being a disciple of God, how learning and growing, because that's what I got up and I'm glad I got up for the show. I feel better. Thank you. Just that's a yes.
So I just I really enjoy the learning and growing on the big fan of audiobooks try to pray get on my knees every morning. Pray and also read the devotional to get my mind right in the perfect will join the club there in person was perfect because not all is right right in and that one of the I can go on. The biggest thing I probably learned and the hardest thing I think we do. As human beings is to forgive. That was hard to forgive.
Now University North Carolina but to forgive myself. This is coach Williams would say you pointing at somebody three fingers pointing back at you. So I had no maybe what I had was 75% to do with that situation may be more maybe a little less, but I had something so I do forgive you and see what I forgive myself and you also told me you learn who your friends really were questions also that you had to kind of feel some feelings toward that weren't there when you went through the difficult time. That Rolodex gets cleaned out quickly and you know what that's got healthy. You really do find out who your true friends are the ones who surround you and are there to support you through the difficult time. Amen. Do you feel like you could say to God, thank you for the North Carolina experience, because the Bible says were supposed to give God thanks in all things, not a summer a few but in all things. Could you do that yes less and has now been now and I couldn't for a while was more of a why me kind of thing and sometimes I think we all should say why not me. You know when somebody you know in someone's family or you read about a disaster.
The hurricanes that hit the Bahamas or somebody's got cancer, you know. And then it hits you, and I think real quick say why me and it should be like, why not me like okay got up you you to think of the strength to get through this and maybe I can teach other people through this pain that were going through and edit pain comes your passion and so out of my pain became my passion for leadership put me on my leadership journey and now I want to coach others to help them avoid stepping on the landmines that I stepped on while Romans 828 for all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose and it says all things out a few things. Everything works together for good. So you're here today saying that that awful experience that ransacked you was a good thing for you it was because you know who knows.
I could've been a whole different destructive path had not happened. And maybe I can help others through their journey okay Matt, we can wrap up the show, you get 30 seconds. What's the one life lesson, you would love for our listeners to know from your life today. I think as I said, you know my cut tomatoes learn and grow. I think we all have to learn coach Williams always says you to be on the right track but if you're standing still, you get run over Matt Doherty, former Carolina great head coach at Carolina man working through his life situations in a positive way through faith through values. Thanks for being with me today. Thank you Brett me on the shelf and will do a ground to because I think about a lot more sounds good and everyone do this for me. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, mind and love your neighbor as you sell those of the two commands. If you do those two things.
You have a lifetime's worth of work to do. I David Chadwick this is news talk 11 to 99.
Three WBT. Thank you for listening. God bless you all. I'll talk you all next