Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome to the show.

It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick live. Wow. Hey, how about that? It is 2025.

This is the first show of the year of 2025. Hope you're all listening. Had a good holidays. Hope you had a good Christmas and New Year.

I mean, New Year's and all of that. I hope it went well. And mine was kind of just whatever.

It was low key, and I enjoyed that. So it was nice. And I hope that we have a great year. Hope things work out well and that the kingdom of God expands.

The Lord Jesus Christ is glorified and the people of God would then learn more about him and become even more entrenched in the grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. That's what I'm hoping. So good stuff. All right. So here's a little bit of congratulations today. January 2nd is the 20 year anniversary of me doing radio five days a week. I did two years of radio one day a week, and it was off for a few years. And then moved up here to Idaho and 20 years ago, two days when I started doing radio. So I've been doing radio a total of 22 years. And today is anniversary about that 20 years ago.

Today started here doing radio and five days a week. So praise God for that. If you have any comments about that, you know, you want to call up and say, hey, congratulations, happy anniversary.

Then that's fine, too. To do that, the number is 8772072276. You can also email me if you want. You can email me a comment or a question. Just go to their email and send it to, let's see, info at karm.org.

C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, info at karm.org, and put in the subject line radio comment, radio question, and then we can get to them. And it's usually kind of a tough start, beginning of the year, end of the year, because it's holidays and stuff like that. And people are kind of accustomed to not, you know, in their same routine. So we may or may not have a lot of calls today, I don't know.

But there you go. Now, also, I can officially let it be known that we're doing a trip to Jordan in November of this year. Going to Jordan, I'll get more information out about it. It's a 12-day trip. We just did, a few months ago, a couple months ago, we did a 19-day trip. We went to Turkey and Greece and Italy.

And now we're going to go to Jordan. I had all my notes. I talked to Eric Johnson, who was filiming on it. I took some notes. And let's just say I lost my notes when I rebooted my computer, forgot to save that bit of information.

No big deal. But I'll get more information about it and where you can check it out, if that sounds like something to be interesting. And some of the things we're going to be seeing over there is Petra. And if you look it up, just Petra, it's amazing. And also, we're going to be going to the place of Sodom and Gomorrah and some other places.

Now, I want to let you know that this will not be a trip for the week. This is a trip that, for example, on the day of Petra, we'll be walking probably 12 miles. So that's a lot of walking.

And it's a lot of time. And so you have to be in shape for that. And what I do when I go on these trips is I walk for a couple of months. I start off one mile a day, then two, then, you know, work it up.

And I was doing five, seven miles a day. Not a problem. So when we went to the footsteps of Paul, you know, we do our walking, but we had bus stops and things like that. It worked out fine. So just letting you know about that. And one other thing about it, what was it? Oh, yeah. And it would be a few times we have to go to the restroom outside. So we did that once before in another trip.

I remember that. We went to a big area, and there was I. And there were no facilities there. So what happened was there was a big outcropping of rocks. The ladies went on one side, and the guys went another. That's how it was that time. And nobody complained. That's just part of what it was.

That'll happen a couple, three times. Not a big deal, especially for the guys. They're like, yeah, whatever. But the ladies, a little bit more problematic. So those are the negatives on that. Now, do you feel safe going there? Yeah, yeah.

I talked to Eric about that. He said just like being in Turkey, the same level of just whatever. It's just like Turkey.

It's not a big deal. So I've been to Turkey twice, and Israel twice, I think. I've been to Greece and Italy now once, and really enjoy those tours.

It's really nice, because when I'm talking about stuff, I can say, hey, I've been there. I've been to Thessaloniki. I've been to Corinth. I've been to Pompeii. I've been to the Vatican. I've been to the Sistine Chapel, you know.

I've been to the Seven Churches of Revelation. It's just stuff. It's really cool to be able to say. All right. So isn't that neat? All right.

Now, wait a minute. Someone had a birthday today, was it? I might have put it in the clubhouse. I thought someone said they had a birthday or something.

If you do, let me know. And like I said, today's a 20-year anniversary of me doing radio five days a week, and praise God for that. Now, I just want to let you know that one of the things we want to do is expand the show. And I talked to the people in charge about that.

And so we're going to look into that a little bit. If you like the show and you want it to continue and you want it to be on more radio stations, would you please consider supporting us? Just go to karm.org forward slash donate and whatever you put in there.

If you want it specifically for radio, just send an email. Hey, I'm so-and-so sent a donation for this month, and that's for radio. And it helps us to determine what's going on there. And the matching funds drive went really well. I want to say thanks to all of you who contributed. We'll get a, it's pretty good, it was good. It was enough to help us out for two months operating costs, which is good.

That's if nothing's coming in. And so it really helps us to be able to keep our head above water. Really appreciate all of you for that. See, all that good stuff, you see?

All that good stuff. All right, let's just jump on with Herb from Raleigh, North Carolina. Herb, welcome.

You're on New Year. Hey, Matt, congratulations on your 20 years, and happy New Year to you and your family. Hey, Matt, thanks a lot. I got a quick update. Thank you so much, buddy.

I just want to tell you, Tuesday I sent you an email to karm.org. I hope you get it, about that Unsolved Mystery story about the, it was three children back in 1914 or 17, I believe it was, sometime in that period, that saw an image of Mary, and it's a pretty amazing story. I don't know if you've heard of that, but that's what I was, I remember that, you know, much younger of seeing that on TV.

So I know, I know a lot about it. Yeah, yeah, there was something there, it's been highly investigated. And, uh, uh, the, the apparition, something occurred, there was, there are people seeing things and it's been filmed. And, uh, and also the observers, not everybody could see everything, but there were observers who were watching people in the crowd.

They were all looking up into the sky, tracking, you know, their, their eyes are all tracking the same object up in the sky. And it's a, uh, it's an official apparition, the Catholic church says of Mary, and, um, it's supposed to be really Mary. And when I, if I read you the quotes of what that apparition said, it's obviously a demonic manifestation. It's a demon and the Catholic church can't tell the difference. Yeah, it's, it's demonic.

I'll in fact, I'll read some of the quotes here. I'll get my file open and go to it, but yeah, it's, it's a demon. Yeah. Yeah. Well, buddy, I got to get back to work, but I just wanted to update you on that, but I figured it was probably something more to it than it seemed to be in such as demonic. So that's what I was trying to describe.

I now remember something like that many years ago watching that show. And I just wanted to let you know about that. Um, I hope you have 20 more years of good times on the radio and, uh, 20 more years of life and maybe more than that. Well, by God's grace, you know, um, I'm blessed. I'm 68 and people never guess my age and they just think I'm 15 years, 10, 15 years younger and I could walk quickly and I'm in good shape.

So I'm, I'm very blessed. Well, I'll tell you a funny short story that happened to me when I was 40, I'm 68 too, like you are, I think I said I was 50 the other day and I was dreaming, but when I was, um, when I turned 40, I went to a little restaurant, I won't say it on the air, but it's a country type restaurant and they have a senior discount and I'm 40 years old and I walk in, very nice lady is okay with a senior discount. It'll be whatever I said, why did you give me the senior discount? I looked at old, she said, well, kinda, I said, well, forget it. I'm not eating with you today.

I'll go somewhere else. No, I'm kidding. I stayed with, I couldn't believe it at 40 years old. She said, I looked 60. So while I'm, I'm aging faster, I didn't know I was going that fast. It was bad lighting. That neon light can make you look bad.

So, you know, you never know. Well, I look in the mirror every day and I seem to have more wrinkles and less hair. So I don't look in the mirror no more.

I look in the mirror because it wakes me up. It startles me. Oh, that's right.

And then that gets me going. So that helps. I understand. Yeah. Well, look, have a great great year.

I'm always praying for you and listen to you every single day. I can. Well, good.

Thanks for your help. All right. Hey, God bless. All right. Thank you, sir. All right.

Well, good stuff. You know, since he brought up the issue of the Fatima thing, what I'm going to do is read some of the apparitions comments. I'm going to read six of them, three from Guadalupe in 1531, and then I'll go to the three in 1917 from Fatima. And I want you to see the progression of the demonic manifestation there. Then what I'll do, because there's a text that someone wants me to get to on dealing with John 2023, which is easy to do. And I'll explain that. So I'm going to say something here.

There's a lot. I would say this. The Roman Catholic Church is not a Christian church. Okay. And it's an apostate false church, just like the Eastern Orthodox. Now, when I say that, and I'm going to say this because I'm going to get into it a little bit because he brought it up.

We've got nobody waiting. When I say that, it's not me just being mad. I'm being narrow-minded or closed-minded. How dare I say something like that about the Catholic Church or whatever. The issue here is purely theological.

I'm not the only one who holds this position. There are literally thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of Protestants who understand that the Roman Catholic Church is false, as well as the Eastern Orthodox. Now, both of them are on the rise.

People are turning to them. The Eastern Orthodox Church is a false church also, teaches a false gospel, a false priesthood and a false Mary. And so they promote works of righteousness. Both groups do, even though they say they don't. And the adherents will do whatever they can to weasel and word twist to make it sound like they're biblical when they're really not.

And so, I've had thousands of conversations with them, thousands of hours over decades doing this. So, like I said, I was never a Catholic. I was never an Eastern Orthodox.

You know, it's nothing about who I was wronged by somebody. It's not like that. This is purely theological issue.

So, maybe I'll get into it a little bit today. I don't know, but this is a serious thing. I'm going to say it again. The Roman Catholic Church is not Christian. If you believe official Roman Catholic theology and you die in it, you're going to hell. And if you believe official Eastern Orthodox theology and you die in it, you're going to go to hell.

The reason is because both of them preach a false gospel. They both teach that you have to be baptized in order to be saved with variations in them. But they teach that and they have to keep commandments in order to be saved. And that in Eastern Orthodoxy, that you gradually become godlike, not in their nature, but it's called theosis. It's called theosis that you achieve justification through your works, your faithfulness throughout your entire life.

It's just a false doctrine from the devil. And the same thing, similar thing goes to with Roman Catholicism that teaches that grace is an infused kind of a thing into your soul through the sacraments. And if you sin, you lose grace. And if you go to the church, you get grace back in your soul. As long as you maintain that grace and you know, that's how you stay saved.

And things like this. It's all demonic. It's all false doctrine. And I have no problem saying it. I have no problem at all whatsoever saying that. Because it's true.

Now, there is the break. So what I'm going to do is, because you brought up the Fatima thing, 1914, 1970, excuse me. I'm going to read some quotes and we'll get to that. And then I'll get to John 2023. And we'll just talk. If you have questions or comments, give me a call. 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show.

It's 20 after. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. 877-207-2276. Look at Dave real fast before you do the Catholic thing. Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Yes, congratulations on your 22 years. I really appreciate your program. Praise God.

Thanks. What my question is, in 1 Samuel, chapter 28, Samuel has died and solved almost what to do. And he goes and finds a woman who, a witch or whoever, that could tell the future.

Witch of Endor, yes. And, yep, and asks to bring Samuel back. Did she really bring Samuel back?

Because I'm reading this thing. It sounds like it's just like Samuel talking to arguing about why are you doing this. Was that really Samuel?

Or was this an evil spirit? Yeah, I believe it was Samuel. It's in 1 Samuel 28. And Samuel rebukes him. He says, if the Lord's not doing this, then why are you doing this? So he's giving glory to God. And he's going back and speaking of the things of God and pointing them to God. And he says, you're going to be with me here pretty soon. And we're just going to die. So I have no problem with it actually being Samuel. Because people do live after they're dead.

They continue to exist in a conscious state. We know that from Moses and Elijah in Matthew 17 with the transfiguration of Jesus. We have this here. So I have no problem with that. Now, there are those who would disagree and say it's not true. But that's, in their opinion, I believe it was actually Samuel. Okay, Witch of Endor was surprised and shocked.

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, when Samuel said, you're going to be with me. Well, what was Samuel at this time?

Dead. Was he present with God? Was he present with God when he said this? Well, that's in the New Testament. You quote 2 Corinthians 5-8, or 1 Corinthians 5-8, I think it is. And so that's a different context. It says, you'll be with me, he said.

Okay. So, and there's some theology about what happened before the crucifixion, where they were, versus what happened after the crucifixion and where they were. But in that context, it looks like Samuel, in the abode of the dead, Hades, most probably, excuse me, Abraham's bosom, most probably. And that's where he was.

And it was brought back. The Witch of Endor there was shocked because this is really him. And this is revelatory because she's familiar with the demonic manifestations, with the familiar spirits who had come forth to imitate things. And this was really him. And she, okay, I'm in trouble now. So I believe it really was Samuel, okay? Yeah, what concerned me, or what I'm a little bit confused, which, when he said he'd bring you, he's going to be with him. Yeah, he did. And he would, it was over.

And so he was going to be with him. I figured, well, Samuel is the saved man. Saul, I don't think so. I don't... Well, that's another discussion.

That's another discussion. But he said he'd be with me. So Saul blew it. But people can, he blew it, let's just say that. And it looks like he was going to go and would be saved anyway, even though Saul made a lot of, I mean, yeah, Saul made a lot of mistakes, a lot of goofs.

But he did say he was going to be with me. And, not Hades, but Abraham's bosom, per Luke 16, 19 to 31. That's what I believe. Okay.

Yeah, so in your opinion, you think that Saul was saved? Yes, I think so. Yeah. Okay. All right, that's interesting.

It's very interesting. Yeah. I appreciate your comments on that.

Sure. All right, I guess that's something I'm going to have for now. All right, buddy. I appreciate it a lot. You take care. Okay. Bye. Okay.

All right. So now what I'm going to do is get to the apparition stuff about Mary, the previous caller. Like I said, I do that every now and then, go through and try and show people what Catholicism teaches and how seriously bad it is.

So you have to understand, these things really are bad. And they are demonic. And so what I'm going to do is read to you six quotes, three from Guadalupe in 1531 and three from Fatima in 1917. Both of these are recognized by the Roman Catholic Church as being officially Mary. They're saying, yes, it really was Mary. It was really her. And these are really her words. Now what gets me is so many people are willing to just throw down logic, throw down scripture, throw down anything, trample it underfoot because it tickles their ears and tickles their hearts because an apparition of a woman, a demonic manifestation, what it is, a manifestation of, so to speak, Mary, and then they just believe whatever this says.

And the stupidity of this whole kind of a thing is just, to me, is just tremendously embarrassing to any individual. How do you know that these apparitions are true? Because the Catholic Church says so. Well, you believe the Catholic Church is true. Why? Because it says it's true.

How do you know? We get into all these things. And the issue here is, what does the scripture say? Now, what the Catholics will do then and the EO, well, how do you know that the scriptures are true? What we are the ones who gave you the scriptures, we have the authority. They always point to the church. They don't bear witness of Christ. It's always about their church.

And it goes on and on. But nevertheless, what I'm going to do now is read three apparitions from 1531. Remember, this is what the Catholic Church says is officially Mary. Then we'll get to the 1917 Fatima stuff.

This is the first one. It says, no, no for sure, my dearest, littlest, and youngest son, that I am the perfect and ever virgin Holy Mary. So the apparition says it's Mary. How do you know that? It's one of the questions I would ask, well, how do you know? How do you know this apparition really is Mary? How do you know?

Is it because it says so? You know, I got to tell you, you know, my mom and dad, you know, we moved a lot. My dad was in the service. My mama had a really high IQ.

My dad had a high IQ also. One of the things they taught me was just don't follow the crowd. Don't follow the crowd. Don't just believe something because someone says it. It's one of the things they taught me.

From day one, you check things out, you examine stuff. Don't follow the crowd. If, you know, if everybody's doing drugs, does that mean you should? Of course not. You know, they taught me to think.

They taught me to think. All right. So if I was sitting there or some apparition comes up, everybody, oh, it's on apparition. It's for Mary. How do you know? Don't ask questions like that.

Why shouldn't I? This is important stuff. So anyway, here's number two. I am truly your merciful mother, yours and all the people who live united in this land and of all the other people of different ancestries, my lovers who love me. This is what the apparition says. My lovers who love me, those who seek me, those who trust in me here, I will hear their weeping, their complaints and heal all their sorrows, hardships and sufferings. So now the apparition says that you've got to love them. Oh, love the apparition, you know, the apparition will hear their weeping and complaints and will heal all the sorrows, hardships and sufferings.

The apparition says it will. And that the people of different ancestries, my lovers who love me, those who seek me, those who trust in me. Would you ever hear a disciple of Jesus say something like that? Would you ever hear one of the apostles, yes, you have to understand, you have to love me, seek me and trust in me? You say that is a heretic. That's not what an apostle would teach.

But the church has no problem saying it's Mary when she teaches. So we'll get to number three after the break. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned for more. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. When welcome back to the show, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let me finish with the quotes. Then we got a call about the Trinity and then we'll get to John 2023.

We've got some good stuff going on here. So the third quote from this apparition in 1531, which the Catholic Church says is officially Mary says, Am I not here? I who am your mother. Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hollow of my mantle in the crossing of my arms?

Do you need anything more? So the apparition is now saying you don't need anything more than the apparition that the apparition is will protect you and is a source of your joy. This is demonic because that which is truly from God will bear witness to the Lord Jesus Christ.

That's just how it works. This is not doing that. Now I'm going to jump ahead to 1917, Fatima, Portugal, and let's check this out.

It says here, this is on May 13th, 1917. Are you willing to offer yourself to God to bear all the sufferings he wants to send you as an act of reparation for the sins by which he is offended and for the conversion of sinners? So the apparition is talking to these three children and says, Are you willing to offer yourselves to bear the sufferings that God is going to send you as an act of reparation by the sins by which he is offended? This is demonic. It's from the pit.

It's from the demons. The reason is because Jesus is the one on the cross who repaired the sin debt. He took care of the sin debt at the cross, Colossians 2.14.

That's what he did. We do not atone for our sins. We don't make sins right before God by our sacrifices. Jesus did that, and we look to Christ. This is why this is obviously a demon speaking because it's undermining the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ and saying that they can, by their own sacrifices, their own sufferings, atone for, make atonement, a repair, make reparation for the sins by which God is offended. This is just filth, okay?

Number two, I will take Jacinta and Francisco shortly, but you will stay here for some time to come. Jesus wants to use you to make me known and loved. He wishes to establish the devotion to my Immaculate Heart throughout the world. I promise salvation to whoever embraces it. So the apparition is now promising salvation to everyone who has devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Now, demons, what they want to do is they're going to move away from Christ, they're going to point to themselves, they're going to want you to seek them, and then ultimately what they want is sacrifices offered to them. Sacrifices is something that demons in the demonic systems in the Old Testament, the different kinds of sacrifices, they were to demons. And even in the pagan theologies of Greece and stuff like that, there were sacrifices to the false gods, these demonic beings. Sacrifices are something that would come after a devotion to them and a trust in them and their ability to save you. The reason I'm saying that is, check out the third apparition's statement.

This is July 13, 1917, at Fatima. Sacrifice yourselves for sinners and say often to Jesus, especially whenever you make a sacrifice, make a sacrifice, okay? Oh Jesus, it is for the love of thee for the conversion of sinners and in reparation, it's also, the sacrifice is also, in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Now you make sacrifices to fix the problems you did when you sinned against the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Folks, demons, this is demon theology, this is what this is, it's not God. The reason we know is because that's not what the scriptures teach, the scriptures teach of the contrary.

So this is really interesting stuff. Now if the Roman Catholic Church says all of these apparitions and all these statements are true, well then you can't trust the Catholic Church, it's one of the proofs of its apostasy. It can't even tell the difference between a demonic manifestation and the Bible teaching.

And why? Here's the reason. I'm going to go to a verse that I'm going to read to you, this is very important. This is John 10, 27, my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. So, Jesus says my sheep hear my voice and they follow me, all right? So we're not supposed to follow the voice of another shepherd. Now the Catholic Church claims to be the shepherd. It wants to tell you what you need to believe and how to go to God and you go through it and through Mary and through the sacraments and all this stuff.

And because I hear the voice of Christ, I do not listen to the false shepherd of the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome, you're on the air. My question is, have you ever seen the video when Mark Driscoll was interviewing T.D.J. about Trinity and I hear a lot of preachers accuse him of being a mortalist, but I was watching the video and he said he believes in the Trinity, you know, to the greatest persons and a lot of people are falsely accused. He has a good heart because he wanted to unite the Trinity and the Catholic Church, and he has a good heart because he wanted to unite to get together. He works with the Trinity people and not a Pentecostal church. So he believes he's Pauline.

So he has good intentions to do. Okay, what's your question? What's your question?

What's your question? My question is why do people falsely accuse him of something he's not? Who? The people on the internet.

No, no, no, no, no. Accuse who? You mentioned two people, Mark Driscoll and T.D.Jakes. So T.D.Jakes.

Why do people accuse T.D.Jakes? Yeah, because he's a denier of the Trinity. He's a mortalist. He is. Okay. And when I saw that video and I was upset by it because, and I've met Mark Driscoll and he uses Karm. He knows of Karm and stuff like that.

And I was bothered by the lack of specificity from, let's just say the questions that needed to be asked about two T.D.Jakes. So, do you believe that God is three persons? Yes. Okay. Well, move on. You don't ask a question like that. You say, do you deny that God is one person in any way, shape or form?

Just one person. If he says yes, I deny it. Okay, let's further clarify.

This is so important. You have to ask several questions. Do you deny that the one person becomes, takes different modes or appearances? If he says yeah, I deny that. Do you affirm that God exists eternally as three distinct, simultaneous, co-eternal persons? Yes. So, in the affirmation of the three persons, you're also denying that God is one person. Is that correct? You have to go back and forth different ways like this so that it's all recorded and very specific questions have to be asked.

And they didn't do this with him. And so, I thought there was wiggle room and that it's unclear. Now, if I were to interview T.D. Jakes, let me tell you, it'd be different. I would get a lot of questions.

I would want to ask very specific questions. You know, find out. I know how to hold people's feet to the fire.

Okay. I know you saw it, but he said that we need Margaret to ask him. He said he believes in the latter one, the three distinct persons. He believes in the Paulines. So he said that, like you said, we as human beings, we could never know God. Like Chris was saying, it's like, you know, if he's mysterious in one way, mystery, but at the same time, he's knowable. So, but still, he didn't completely deny the Trinity. I think I watched the video. He said that he still believes in the latter.

Yeah, you see, but yeah. And I would just do, you know, I haven't looked at it for a while, but I remember being quite dissatisfied with that series of questions. And I do not believe, and from what I understand later and stuff that he still affirms, he denies, still denies the Trinity.

You have to be specific. When you do questions like this, you have to affirm and deny. You ask questions of affirmation. You ask questions of denial. Do you affirm this?

Do you deny this? You have to be specific. I wish these guys would have me on and, you know, and say, okay, we want you to grill somebody on doctrine. Great. Let me ask you, you know, I got 20 questions.

Let's see how you do, you know, and, you know, and I'd love to do that. Of course, no one, they don't have me on. My last name is Slick. I'm a slimy, you know, Calvinist who's pleasing the charismatic gifts. So nobody wants me.

I was going to eat some worms, you know? So that's how it is. Okay. Okay. All right.

Thank you. I'll send it to you in a way. I did it earlier. I did it earlier.

You have to look at that email. I'll send it to you. All right. Thank you. God bless. I'll be here.

Thanks. Okay. All right. Talk to you later.

All right. Yeah, so this is a serious thing and, uh, let's see, TD, TD Jakes, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, so yeah, I could do some research on it. Maybe I will. I don't know if someone has me, I have so much to do. It's just so much to do, but I need to, you know, get on top of all these things.

There's so much. All right. So someone asked me to deal with John 2028.

There's the music. I will tackle that right after the break and the last segment of the first show of the year 2025. May the Lord bless you. We'll be right back after these, uh, announcements. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. The last segment of the hour, if you want to give me a call, it's easy.

The number is 877-207-2276. So now what I'm going to do is get into John 2023. This is a verse that is used by Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics. They want to authenticate their apostolic, uh, authority. So let me explain a little bit, and then I'll explain what the verse is and how to respond to them with it. So the Roman Catholic and Eastern EO, the RC and the EO both teach that they, their churches are the true church and that salvation is found inside of their church, the true church, and that their church has the apostolic authority because they have the lineage that goes back to Peter and the apostles and what they stay in their churches is what is true. They have the authority and, uh, it comes from many verses, Matthew 16, 18 and 19 and John 20, 23. Here's one of the verses they use. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them.

If you retain the sins of any, they have been retained. So they say, see, this is apostolic authority to be able to forgive sins. And Jesus is talking to his disciples.

That's what he's doing in the first day of the week. He's talking to them and he's telling them something. Now, first of all, when you do an interpretation of something, you look at what the context is. Who's it being addressed to?

What's going on? So in verse 21, Jesus said to them, peace be with you. As the father has sent me, I send you. Who's he talking to? He's talking to the disciples. Now that's what it says in verse 19. Now, is he talking to all people and the successors of the disciples down through history?

Is that what he's doing right there? Well, it doesn't say that, but what they'll do that our CEO, what they'll do is they will claim that it is what's happening. Well, I ask them, how do you know that? Well, because it's what our church says and how you know the church is true. And it goes on like this.

Okay. So they'll say, but that verse I'll say, they say, if you forgive the sins of any, their sins are forgiven. That's how they'll quote it. Those sins are forgiven. That's not what it says. Does not say if you forgive the sins, your sins are forgiven. It says, if you forgive the sins, their sins will have been, or their sins have been forgiven.

So this is important because of what's going on in the text says they have been. Now I'm going to go into the Greek here. Look at this a little bit.

I want you to look at this. Okay. And what we find here is the perfect passive indicative. Perfect tense in Greek is I have been. Pleuperfect is I had been. Past or aorist is I was, so have the perfect tense in the Greek, really simple. You know, I have been hungry, which means you still are. I had been hungry.

You used to be hungry, but you're not right now. That's a difference in the tense. And so it says, if you forgive the sins, if you do this, and what is interesting is it's in the aorist. If you forgive, the aorist is past tense, it's not present tense. If you forgive, which in English is present tense, but in the Greek, it's the aorist, which is past tense. It's like saying, if you forgive them, if you forgive them, them, it's a weird kind of a tense for us to understand. But in the Greek, it's going on talking about a past tense kind of a quality that if you do this, if you have, if you've, it's been done by you. Your sins have been forgiven.

Now, wait a minute. Are we saying then that the disciples have the authority to forgive sins? And now I'll ask them that. And what these guys will say is, yes, they do. And I have a second question. If they have the authority to forgive sins, then when they forgive sins, is God obligated to follow suit and forgive them?

That's the killer question. And they've still got the authority to forgive sins. And they've stumbled over that question so many times, because if the disciples have the authority and then they forgive, are they exercising it perfectly every time? I wouldn't say they were perfect every time.

I mean, only Jesus was that. So if they were to erroneously say to someone, your sins are forgiven, is God, God's now got to go, okay, I got to forgive them now because they said so. I ask them, is that what happened? And they didn't go out.

No. Well, then what's going on here? What is going on that if you do this forgiving, if it's in the state where you've done this, their sins have been forgiven. The question is, are they actually doing the forgiving or are they pronouncing the forgiveness that already was? They have been forgiven. If I lead someone to the Lord and they've had a life of sin and not that a formula lead them to the Lord and all that, but I mean, you're there and you talked about the Lord and you lead someone to Christ and you, you know, all intents and purposes, you ask the person to pray to receive Christ as savior and to repent of sins.

And this person really does this. Okay. It's a real conversion. So at that point I could say your sins have been forgiven. I'm not the one doing the forgiving.

And so God is not obligated for me to do the forgiving. Now, what they might say is, well, that's because you don't have the authority. Oh, I love that when they say that. Oh, I said, really? You don't want to go there, do you? And they say, yes, we do.

So, okay, I'll get to that in a second. So they'll say that and they want, what they want, what these groups do, what they want to do is say that their church is the true church. Their church has all the authority and their church has the apostolic lineage and the heritage or the pedigree and that because of that, they have authority.

That's just how it is. And you're a stupid Protestant and you don't have authority, Matt. You don't have the authority to interpret scripture, to forgive sins like our church does. And then you see what the people will, they'll give you a nice church service with a lot of bells and smells and they'll go through and they say, see, we have the apostolic stuff. They say, look, see, see all the gold and the silver up there. And you see all the garments that the priests are wearing. You see all that? And you see the incense and the icons and the statues. You see, we're the true church. We have all of this stuff.

We're really old. Oh, okay. Hey, I'll just bow before those statues and icons and I'll pray to the saints just like you tell me to do because you have the authority. Uh huh. So, um, so here we go.

All right. This is what Jesus says in Luke 5 24 and 25, but so that you may know that the son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins. He said to the paralytic, I say to you, get up, pick up your stretcher and go home. Immediately he got up before them, picked up what would have been lying on.

So he did that. How was the authority of Jesus demonstrated that he could say be healed and they were in Matthew 10 something very interesting happened. Jesus summoned his 12 disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

That's the authority, right? Verse eight, heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons freely. You received freely. Give you don't do it freely. They, they, you know, you got to come in, you got to do the sacraments, do the rituals, and then you can get it under our authority.

It's not free. Anyway, so notice what Jesus says. He says to the disciples, you have authority over unclean spirits to cast them out, heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Did they go out and do that? Yes, they did. Now the EORC, they say, well, we have the authority of the disciples, the authority of the apostles.

You do? In Luke 7, 14 through 15, Jesus raised the dead on command. We know that he did that. Peter raised the dead on command. That's Acts 9, 40 through 41. See, he says right there, Peter sent them all out and knelt down and prayed and turning to the body, he said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes. When she saw Peter sat, she sat up. He said, rise.

She did. Peter had the authority. And how about this? In Acts 9, 34, Peter said to him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you.

Get up and make your bed immediately. He got up. There you go.

That's the authority right there. Paul healed on command in Acts 14, 8 through 10. At Lystra, a man was sitting who had no strength in his feet, lame from his mother's womb, who had never walked. This man was listening to Paul as he spoke, who, when he had seen that he had faith to be made well, said with a loud voice, stand up right on your feet.

And he leapt up and began to walk. So we see Jesus, Peter, and Paul right there on command. They could heal. That's the authority. Does the healed priests do that? Do the Catholic priests do that? They have the authority, remember. They can forgive sins. Now, here's the thing.

There's what's called non-falsifiability. Back in the day, some of you may be familiar with Heaven's Gate. It was a cult in San Diego.

I lived there in San Diego. And when it happened, I was on TV talking about this stuff. They interviewed anybody who could spell the word cult. And it's a bunch of people who killed themselves, like 40 some odd people. And they did it by suicide because there was a Hillbop Comet was coming. And there was a spaceship on the far side of the comet.

And that they were going to be taken by the spaceship. It's called non-falsifiability. How do you prove there is not a spaceship on the other side of the comet?

The only way to do that is send a rocket with satellites, with cameras, and you go up there and do that. Well, that wasn't the case. So the claim can't be proven to be false. It's just a claim.

It's like me saying, there's an ice cream factory in the fourth largest moon of Jupiter. It's non-falsifiable. I can say it. Doesn't mean it's true. But you can't falsify it, which means you can't show it to be false. A lot of times cults work in what's called non-falsifiability.

Here's an example of it. I forgive you of your sins. OK. Is it done? Well, how do you know?

See, that is different than, OK, you're doing something else. Your son is dead. I'll go raise him from the dead. Rise from the dead.

Now, he rides from the dead. That's not falsifiable. There's the evidence.

There's the proof. Where the EO and RC abide in is in the area of non-falsifiability. They want to claim they have the authority to do something like forgive sin, which is an abstraction, this forgiveness, something that God does.

It's a reality when God does it for us. But you see, the Catholic Church and the EO say that they have the ability to do this. But you can't test it.

There's no way to verify anything. This is why this is why Jesus gave them authority over the unclean spirit so that they would have the authority to speak for Christ. If they don't have that ability, they can't demonstrate that. They don't have the authority of Christ. So where is the authority of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church the way it's revealed in Scripture? They don't have it.

But what they'll tell you is, well, we can forgive sins. How do you test it? How do you test? Prove there's not an ice cream factory in the fourth largest moon of Jupiter. How do you know? Well, because we just say so. Just trust us because we're the true church. What we say is true. Just believe. Just trust us.

Yeah, the verifiability comes when you can raise the dead, cast out demons, heal the sick and cure all sorts of diseases, as Jesus said that they could do in Matthew Chapter 10. They don't manifest that. So they're not really exercising any authority. They're posers. They're posers. They're pretending to be in this.

It's bad. Hey, there's the end of the show. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you. And by his grace, back on there tomorrow, for more truth from the Word of God.

Remember, everybody, one last name is slick. Don't trust me. You trust Scripture. You trust what God says.

And it better point to Jesus Christ as a way the truth of the life and through him and him alone. Can you have your sins forgiven? That's what you got to believe. That's the word of God. May the Lord bless you by his grace. Be back on there tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Have a good one.