Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, another list of Matt Slick live, and today's date is July 16th, 2024.

The millennium is flying by. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. You can also email me to do that. Just send an email to info at karm.org, info at karm, c-a-r-m dot o-r-g, and just put in the subject line a radio comment or radio question, and it should work fine. We're having problems with our rumble feed. I don't know what or why, but there you go. Hopefully, everything else is right, and Laura will let me know.

She'll private text me some stuff, and we'll figure it out. I am unmuted in there, too. Okay, everybody's good. We've got all this stuff going, and let's just jump on the callers.

The longest waiting so far already is Fani or Fani, whoever from Ohio. Welcome. You're on the air.

Thank you for taking my call. Yesterday, you had mentioned in 518 of King James that it was problematic because the free gift is italicized, and I'm wondering why that's a problem because though it's not in the original, it clearly is amplifying or clarifying what is in 515, where it speaks of the free gift. It's not what it says there. It's just that simple. If you were to just understand in Romans 518 that if it's just the free gift is all that's being spoken of, that's all that it means, then you're not going to dig theologically.

You're not going to learn, and that's the problem that's happening is that it's not providing. Let me do this really fast. The King James Version. The King James is a good Bible, but it has some translation problems, and I wouldn't use it for apologetics. Titus 2.13 is wrong. Romans 5.18 is wrong. It has anachronisms.

It has some issues, but as far as Romans 5.18 goes, it's not what it says. It does not say, and the free gift came. It doesn't say that. That's earlier.

But it's 515. It does speak of... Well, that's just clarification. It's not clarification.

It's blurification. It's not letting the Word of God speak for what it actually says. The translators are then interpreting it, saying it's a free gift. That came. That's not what it is, because what it actually is saying in the second part is that the one act of righteousness of Christ, their resulted justification of life to all men.

That's what's going on. That's not what the King James says. Who are the ungodly in 5.6? Who are the ungodly in 5.6? The ungodly or the ungodly.

That's what it is. It's ungodly. That's everybody. Everybody's ungodly.

Everybody. It says Christ died for the ungodly. Yes, but we're talking about Romans 5.18, not Romans 5.6. I guess that was the second question, I guess. Well, are you a King James only person? Well, you didn't answer my question about 5.6.

I did. I said the ungodly is the ungodly. It's everybody.

Okay? It's a generic statement. Christ died for the ungodly, so that's everybody. Yeah, it's a generic term. It's a generic thing. It's hyperbole, the ungodly.

It can be inclusive or it can be exclusive. So those who are not the elect according to the Calvinist are not ungodly. No. When he says he died for the ungodly, who did Jesus die for?

Do you believe he died for every individual who ever lived? Of course. So what I'm going to do is go to 1 Samuel 3.14. I'm going to read it to you. Okay?

And then let's see what God says. Okay? It says in 1 Samuel 3.14, therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So did Jesus bear the sins of Eli's house? Well, you said everybody was ungodly. Okay. But you're not answering the question.

Okay? Did Jesus bear the sin of Eli's house? Because it says that they would not be atoned. I'd have to look at that because I know even like what he saw in Jacob, in the womb, you know, you're talking about two different nations. It's not nations, it's individuals.

The one he loved, the other one he hated. No, no, no, no. Well, if you, okay, well, we would just... No, hold on, hold on. I've been doing this for 33 years defending this. I know this very well. It's a standard argument out of Romans 9 that it's just nations. But it's not. And I can show you why it's not.

I can show you exactly why in Romans 9 it is not about nations, it's about individuals. I can show it to you if you're interested. I've done this a hundred times. No, I'm not. But thank you. You're not? Thank you. Wait, hold on.

I've got a question for you. Why are you not interested? We didn't really cover who the ungodly are. But I did. And you're suggesting you go to another scripture and it's kind of like... No, look, ma'am.

We're not really, yeah. But, no, no, no. I did. I said, you said, who's the ungodly? I said the ungodly is everyone.

Then I'm cluing in what you're doing. Christ died for the ungodly, so now you want to say he died for everybody. Then I said to you that the word ungodly can be inclusive or exclusive. It can include all individuals or it can only include the people for whom Christ died.

Because they certainly would be ungodly, wouldn't they? If you have a thousand people and all of them are bad and you pick a hundred out, you say they're bad. It doesn't mean every individual. And so I'm trying to prove to you, trying to prove from God's Word that I'm proving it.

1 Samuel 3.14, God says, God says that the iniquities of Eli's house will not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. And when I show people this, they usually just ignore the verse because it doesn't fit their theology. Well, no, no, it's not that it doesn't fit theology. You have to put it into context.

What's the context? You're trying to use something. You can pick any one verse in the Bible and you can do anything with it. Okay. Can I try another verse for you then and see what you do with this?

Because you'll say, okay, if I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me. But then you qualify what all is here. Yeah. Cause you don't say it's all men. You say it's all nations.

It's of all nations. So you know, you're very, you're very exclusive that way. And Jesus was, Jesus was exclusive.

Okay. So why would God grieve over, why would God grieve over the evil, the evil people if he programmed them to be that way? He didn't program them. Where are you getting all this? You're getting all this kind of weird information.

We don't say program. No it's not. It's not it. Look, let me tell you, you've been listening to a bunch of people misrepresent what reformed theology is. Yes you have, because what you just said is proof of it.

Ma'am, look, I've been doing this for over 30 years. I have a master's of divinity from, can I, excuse me, I don't know why you keep interrupting. You said I'm brainwashed. I didn't say you're brainwashed. So you keep misrepresenting what I'm saying. You're reacting and not hearing God's word.

You're reacting. I'm telling you, we Calvinists don't say that God programmed people. We never say that.

It's never the case. It's when you say, when you say they're programmed, when you say they're programmed, I say no that's not it. You don't even say, well okay, thank you for correcting that, I didn't know.

You just continue on and you ignore the correction and you go on to something else. So, let me ask you, did he, no he did not. You just said not. Let me ask you, is sin a legal debt? Is it a debt to God?

Of course it is. Okay, good. So if a legal debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? You have to receive or reject. I didn't ask if you have to receive it.

I said if a legal debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? Ma'am, I didn't ask that. I didn't ask that. I ask a question.

I didn't ask that. I said if a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? It's just a simple question. Why can't you answer the simple question? If a debt is paid for, what you're doing is you're saying that the power of the atonement, no listen, you can't even answer a simple question. You ignore the question like you ignore the other stuff I said and you go on. I ask you a very simple question. If a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? You know the answer.

The answer is no it doesn't. Well then if he paid the debt for everybody who ever lived, why does anybody go to hell? Then you're going to say you've got to receive it. But that's John 1.12. As many as received him. But did you know that God's the one who grants the people to have faith? Philippians 1.29. Did you know that in Acts 13.48 it says for as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed? Did you know that God's the one who does this? Most people don't want to hear it. The reason most Christians don't want to hear it is because they don't want God's sovereignty.

They want their own. That's what you say. I've talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of people about this topic over 40 years. And I'm telling you, let me ask you again.

This is a test. If a legal debt, the debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? It has to be appropriated I didn't ask if it has to be appropriated.

Does it exist anymore? Well you could have a million dollars in your account that somebody put here, but if you don't receive it, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Here's the mistake you're making. Lovingly I'm going to say this.

You've got to hear something. What you're doing is you're saying the sacrifice of Christ isn't powerful until you do something. You're saying... You don't do anything by believing or... You said you have to appropriate it.

You said you have to appropriate it. Believing is not a work. It's the work of God, John 6.29. And James, there's a contrast between faith and work.

Yeah, James 2, 14-26. Faith is not... Believing something is not a work. Believing something is a work. It's the work of God. Jesus says this is the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent. It's God's work.

Well he gave every man a measure of faith. Ma'am, do you realize that you're hopscotching all over the place? You're not focusing. Well because you are too. I'm trying to keep up. I'm responding to what you're saying. You're not focusing. Let's test you. Let's test you.

We are. If a sin, if a debt is paid for, does it exist anymore? Does it exist? Look, if you have a million dollars, somebody puts a million dollars in your bank account, but you don't believe, you don't believe it's there. Whether you believe it's there or not has no bearing on if it's there or not.

It means it's there, but it doesn't, but you have to have faith. You have a postmodern philosophy you're imposing upon scripture. No, no.

This is Arminianism and it's weak theology. Yes it is and it's a problem. And you can't even answer the basic questions. We've got to go. Alright, there's a break.

Alright, hey folks. I encounter people like that frequently. They don't want to listen. They don't want to learn. They don't want to submit to God's word.

They want something else. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. That was a lively discussion. I actually encounter people like that a lot.

You ask them direct questions and they won't answer them because it doesn't agree with their theology and they get stuck. That's what happens. Let's get to Jamal from North Carolina. Jamal, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, it's a pleasure, brother Slick. Hey, man. I just want to take up my phone call.

Sure, man. Just to go off that last conversation, no offense to that lady or not, but if somebody takes care of a debt, then that debt does not exist. So if somebody paid your fare at a restaurant, you can't pay for something that's already been paid for. You know, they took care of that deal. So you can't pay for that meal anymore. I'll even go a step further and say, well, if you had that million dollars in the bank and you didn't take it or not, that's on you. If you took that money or not, that money is still there. So, I mean, whatever kind of analogy you'd like to use, if a debt's been paid, it's been paid. Of course, no stress to that that late. Yeah. And I ask, I mean, is that all the time about the atonement and it stumps them instantly because they know the debt is gone. Well then if it's debt's gone, how can you be judged? Well, you got to receive it. It's up to you. Here's the thing.

They don't realize that what they're doing is saying that the actual sacrifice of Christ and what he actually did didn't happen. That's not the right way to say it. Yeah.

Did not accomplish what it was supposed to, but it's activated and empowered when you decided to do something. When you appropriate it, when you believe it, then it becomes effective. And so it's humanist philosophy that's being taught there and it's bad news. Yeah. I got into it with a friend of mine and it's, it's funny cause a lot of people use the same tactics when they don't want to purely seek out the truth. They will bounce around, they will not answer direct questions and they will sometimes resolve to, well, this is my feeling or this is how I interpret it.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let's go around and feel it in interpretations. If you call yourself a Christian, let's go with what the Bible says word for word. You know, I was going to take her to Colossians 2.14 where it says, having canceled out the certificate of debt. And I asked people, what is that certificate of debt? It's the Greek word kiragaphon, handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. And in the previous verse it says Jesus, having forgiven us all our transgressions, verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt. And I asked him, what is that? And he said, the sin debt. And I said, let's read the rest of it.

Just consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us. He took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. And I say, when was the certificate of debt canceled? Not when you believe when it was nailed to the cross and that verse right there.

And the truth that's embedded in it has stumbled so many Christians. I remember once I was talking to a guy, literally, I watched the clock 20 minutes before I got him to finally agree. We went over it 50 times in 20 minutes.

I said, where does it say it was canceled? He said, when you believe, when you, you know, I said, let's go over it again. And finally for 20 minutes, he said, okay, when he nailed it to the cross. And I said, why did it take 20 minutes for you to finally submit to the word of God? What's wrong with you? And I asked him, what's wrong? Because you, your pride is such that your theology is so good. How you understand everything that when it's confronted with the word of God, you and your stubbornness will not submit to the word of God. What's wrong with you?

That's what I hope. I'm sorry. No, you hit. All right.

Sorry about that. Yeah. That's the exact same thing. I was going to say, you know, pride and ego are terrible things. I'm glad you have your theology, sir, man.

That's good. But again, we always got to go back to what the word says. Don't be afraid that you're thinking that theology is going to be debunked by what the Bible says. This is not a Muslim talking to you. This is not somebody from Joseph Smith's camp. The Mormon is talking to you. This is another Christian talking to you. So don't be afraid that any question is going to get you off of Christianity. As long as somebody is opening up that word, uh, probably not King James, cause I've heard a conversation earlier, but, uh, something like that, uh, if they're reading from a good translation, then, you know, trust that. But like Paul says, do all things in prayer and supplication, you know, so pray about what you discuss. I mean, don't, don't let your ego get you from, uh, following the word, but sorry. I went down that rabbit hole. Do you have, what was your question?

Yeah, sorry about that. Um, my question was, and I forgive me if I asked this before, cause I asked this to a few mentors of mine. I consider you an unofficial mentor, Stu Epson. You too, in case you're listening to Stu, you're still my unofficial mentor as well.

Um, so yeah, he's, he's, he's very good. Um, would you run this country, the United States as a theocracy? No, I wouldn't. If I were, if I was in control, what I would do is let people have the freedom of what they want to do. And I would work very hard to get the fundamentals of Christianity taught in schools and all kinds of places. People don't have to be forced to do anything so they can learn the principles of what truth and goodness are. It needs to be in all of our schools and all over the place. It's not a brainwashing thing.

People can watch what they want to watch. But when you start taking God out of things, you have no cohesive methodology or philosophical foundation by which you can then justify right, wrong or anything. And then what happens is everyone does what's right in his own eyes and a kingdom divided against itself will fall. When this country was founded, it was founded by the Presbyterians, the Calvinists who came in, they all started a, people don't know that, but it's true, pilgrims. And they came in to start a Christian nation. And there's some really remarkable things that happened at the beginning of this country. And of course there's a lot of imperfections too. I mean, the slavery stupidity and some other stuff like that. They did this stuff. But still the principles were incredible.

And so that's one of the reasons the country is so great and so strong. But because of the fracturing of truth, then you don't have unity. You have, uh, we're living in a, in a very severe postmodernist woke, uh, philosophically weak, um, society. And this is what the devil was. So I say, get Christianity taught, not Islam, because it's a pagan, filthy religion of murder and certainly not Roman Catholicism because it teaches idolatry all over the place. Get Protestantism in that's what I would try. You know, would it work? I don't know. You know, that's what I would try. So how could we maybe split that here saying, well, let's have a Protestant project, excuse me, Protestantism, whatever that word is, you guys know, talking about, uh, a form of Christianity and not having, um, Islam, how to be, how to be, uh, without that argument.

It's easy and not easy. What we do as Christians is start behaving like Christians because what Christians tend to do largely is, uh, go to church on Sunday with our air conditioned GPS drive driven car seat might be hate or cooled. Then they go into the nice church that's air conditioned and the nice chairs and they get a nice sermon and everything and cookies and stuff.

And this is all nice. And then they go to a restaurant and get served. And then they watch a ball game, maybe on Sunday, wherever it is. And then on Monday they go to work and they don't talk about Jesus because it's relegated to Sunday morning.

They don't live for him externally in risk. This is one of the fundamental problems. I got a break. Hold on, buddy.

We'll continue with this. Hey folks, you don't want to give me a call. You got to wait. No, we got one. No, we don't.

We don't have any, any open line. So he got a whole talk. We'll be right back after the break. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying our interesting discussions today.

So Jamal, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right, man. All right, buddy. So no, not as a theocracy.

I'd certainly want Christianity to be promoted as much as possible. Okay? All right. If I was a dictator and then I'd have you be my second in command, how's that? Oh man.

You know what? I might have to throw a coup on you and be able to run this place as a theocracy. Okay. I got to be careful. No, I'd be respectful, but no, I probably would run it as a theocracy.

I probably do a slick light. Uh, and it's very interesting that take because I do it with that because I do believe in freedom of speech at best was in the constitution. I do believe in freedom of religion. Um, so before I get out of here, let me ask you this. So if we were to preach to contest that ism, got it that time, took like five tries that is Islam. Um, you would say that's, that's fun.

Um, my question would be, excuse me if you already answered that. What argument could we make to say some Christianity is good here, good here, but not everywhere. No, it's good everywhere. Christianity is good everywhere because it comes from the true living God and it teaches self sacrifice. It does not promote socialism or communism. The people in office, if they really were Christians are not going to be sitting there taking kickbacks. They're not going to be trying to get money and power. They're going to be fearing God, the respectful kind of fear that they should have knowing that they're going to be held accountable and day in judgment for what they do in office.

People like that are not going to become a bribed. They're not going to do special interest stuff for themselves. They're going to do something different.

They're going to behave differently and you won't have the idiocy and stupidity that's going on on the uh, the party, which is, you know, in my opinion, a terrorist organization. Okay. Equivalent to just, yeah.

So they wouldn't have the killing of babies in the womb for the convenience of people, you know, and uh, the LGBT mob, the alphabet mob would be pushing their crap on children in schools. Yeah. Okay. So I guess, uh, to try to put into my own words, I'm sure I understood you correctly. We can preach and support Christianity everywhere, but we also can make room for other beliefs.

Is that correct? That's just how it is. That's what God does. That's what Jesus did. And we're not to force it on people that Islam will force it on people.

When Islam, when Muslims become the dominant thing, they are aggressive and deadly and violent. That's not the case with Christianity. And we need to understand that as Christians, if we were to have a Christian nation and control and all that kind of stuff, that we can't force people, but we would want to pass laws and the Christian majority would behold that, that Bible studies could be held in school.

And, uh, you wouldn't have, wouldn't have a pornography being put on and sitcoms or whatever it is for the children to write this kind of stuff needs to stop. And, uh, you know, and, and righteousness. And I remember when I went to the local college here, this really opened my eyes to something, a comment, but I went there to philosophy class and the professor asked me to come in and as a Christian and give a defense for the existence of the Christian God, you know, he was just, she was just being, uh, you know, having different people come in. And I, I, and I asked the students some basic questions, just basic philosophy questions, and they didn't have a clue what was going on. They could, they could not think critically. They did not know how to think critically. And so what's happening in my opinion in America is people are not taught to think critically. They're taught to not think critically. They're taught to react.

They're taught to feel their way through stuff, not to understand, for example, that there must be a unifying principle and an ultimate standard by which we then have all other things derive because all events that occur occur in a set of contexts which have causes that precede them. So all events, ultimately back to the ultimate cause, well, we need to discuss this kind of thing. What does that mean? But no, well, we don't, we don't have that. What we have is everybody say, well, morale is what you want it to be and the truth is what you want it to be. And it makes no sense. It's not logical to say that kind of a thing, but this is what's promoted in society today. So they're not taught critical thinking, which I have to teach Christians critical thinking as well as unbelievers. That's just ridiculous.

Not that I'm a great thinker, but it's all the time. Okay. So we're in trouble. Okay. Yeah.

Final question real quick. So what would you call that version of government? Would that be Christian-like government? Slickism. I don't know. Slickism. Like that. Slickism. Yeah.

Copyright it. It would just be a good, I think, biblical. There's, it's a big topic, you know, theocracy and theonomy and things like that. Um, I believe that if you have people in control, that it'll just take a few decades, well, maybe a century or two to become corrupt. It only needs people in time. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Certain things need to be put in place. That's why we have a three tier form of government so that no one branch could become empowered. But the left is in control of all of them. And look what they're having in our country. It's just laughing stock in the world. And that's stupid moronic leftists. They can't think straight.

Uh, it's just incredible, you know, because they've been brainwashed. Anyway, we've got to get going. Okay, buddy. Well, thank you very much. God bless. All right, Jamal. God bless.

I know I just stepped on a lot of toes with that, but you know what? I don't care. Let's get to, uh, Carolyn from Dayton. Thanks. Hi, Matt. I've only been listening for a couple months, but I've already learned a lot from you.

Um, I just had a, uh, incident that I just wanted to run past you. I attended a, um, a funeral recently in a local, a small local church is the same denomination as what I've been attending that you told me to get out of the Nazarenes. But anyway, this, um, funeral was a very good friend of mine and, and, um, and I knew he was a Mason, but, um, they had the funeral, uh, was done by the Mason. I have never sat in quite a, a ceremony is that, but I know in our manual, there's something regarding prohibiting members being a members of those kinds of associations. Is there anything in the Bible that talks about this?

Yes. Uh, that we're, we are not to participate in secret oaths and things like this, particularly to false gods. And that's what the Masons do. So there's a lot of problems in the Masonic realm. And though most people who are low level Masons, Hey, they're just in a club and they have, you know, things they do. But when you get into the higher levels, it actually is demonic.

The 33rd level and in before there, but they have certain things where they swear allegiance to God, but it's not a Christian. At once I went into a Masonic and I opened up two books. I was the only one in this hall and I opened up two books and one of the books said, Jesus is not God. And the other one said, Christians are a problem maybe to get rid of. I've never written that.

So, yeah. And uh, so no true Christian should be involved with, uh, the Masonic lodge, uh, when it requires oaths, secret oaths, secret codes to end in when it goes to false gods, which it does. Well, it just amazed me that they would allow that to be done in our church. I mean, in the church, it just, uh, I mean, it was just mind blowing for me, but okay. Well, the Nazarene, the Nazarene denomination is, is going downhill and it's, I don't trust the Nazarenes or this, I just don't trust them.

The Northwest Nazarene university is about five, three miles from me as a crow flies. Basically when I talked to the, I talked once to their, it's a pre seminary students once, I forgot exactly what the program was, post military theology. They didn't know anything. I asked basic questions that, you know, Jesus got a man right now.

Well, I don't know. And it was ridiculous. They had a Paul Young, the author of the shack at heresy book at him out speaking. And I, I talked to a guy, I had an incidence where I've got out of a car at a building and there was this rainbow flag and it said Nazarene stuff underneath the Nazarene church. People were coming out right when I parked and I said, Hey, what's up with this? And he said, a long story short, he says, Oh yeah, we love everybody.

They're all welcome here. I said, well, yeah, is it a sin? Oh no, it's not a sin. I said, homosexuality is not a sin. The guy got mad at me and he said, Oh yeah, do you even know what the Greek word for homosexual is? And I said, our son equates in first question, six, nine, but, uh, uh, so yeah, it's just, it's a, it's a bad denomination. They have women pastors and elders too. You can't trust them.

That's what I'm fearing. Anyway, keep up the good work slick, Matt. Okay. Carolyn, thank you. Really appreciate it. All right.

God bless. Okay. Bye. Okay.

Okay. We've got two more callers and one more break. Uh, so we'll make it back. We'll get to Kenny from high point.

What would have happened if Adam never ate the fruit and then Buskman, uh, the phrase we're not electing a pastor, we're letting a president. Ooh, we'll be right back folks. After these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt slick.

Everybody. Welcome back to the show. Last segment of the hour. Let's get to Kenny from high point, North Carolina. Kenny.

Welcome. You're on the air. If you're still there. Are you there?

Kenny? Yes. I'm here. How are you doing? Oh, okay. Now I hear you. Good. All right, man.

Sorry for the long way, but what do you got? Oh, yeah, it's okay. Um, I got a question.

I've always wanted to get this question. Uh, I asked my pastor, she's passed away now. It's been a long time. Wait, did you say a female pastor? It was, it was a, she passed the years ago. I'm, I'm, she's gone now.

That was a long time ago. Women pastors are not biblical, but go ahead. Go ahead. Right. Okay. So if Adam wouldn't have had bitten of the fruit and Eve did what she did, would we be in the same trouble now?

Because when I asked my pastor, then she said, it wouldn't, it wouldn't matter because both of them were married. She said, if one didn't bite it of the fruit, we still would have the same problem if he didn't bite it at all. So what do you have to say about that? Cause I'm trying to get an answer.

No, that that's not a good answer. Um, sin entered the world through one man, Romans five 12. It was through Adam because he was the federal head. Eve was not the federal head.

Right. Eve sinned first, but sin did not enter the world through her, but through Adam. So for her to say that it didn't matter that she did, that it would have been there is wrong. It's bad theology. She did not understand what she was in that area. She didn't understand that theological perspective.

All right. So if Adam had not sinned and not eaten the fruit, he would have eaten it later. He would have done something wrong later.

And if somehow he didn't, Oh, then his son would have, someone's going to do it. And I believe the reason is because they don't have the quality called holiness, which is what God's nature is. You know, first Peter one 16, be holy for I am holy. Now at first five 17, it talks about, I think it's first of the five 17 talks about the angels.

Talk about the elect angels. And that's really critical because, uh, oh, that's not, that's not it. It's five 21. I believe it. Yes, it is.

Try five 21, first two with C five 21. And it says, uh, that he, that before the chosen angels. So what I believe is that God chose certain angels not to fall and let the rest of them fall naturally because they don't possess holiness. They're going to sin. We don't possess holiness.

We're going to sin. Holiness has a quality that belongs to God's nature, to him alone. And so therefore that he has the incapability of violating his own holiness. He will always do what is right by his own nature.

We don't possess it. So it's just a matter of time before we sin and Adam sin because that's just what's going to happen. So I don't believe it makes sense to say that Adam could not have sinned. I believe he would have sinned not because God was forcing him to, but because he did not possess the quality that belongs to God alone, that holiness in which there can be no sin.

And since Adam didn't possess that it's just a matter of time before he would sin. That's my opinion. Wow. Okay. Well, thank you so much.

I appreciate that. Wow. Okay. Okay.

Yes. Well, she, she, she, she had it wrong. It's okay. She said she was thinking because they were married. She said it wouldn't matter because of, you know, because they were boner, boner because of the bone flesh and because of the flesh. I said, well, you sure one would have ate of the fruit and one didn't? It looked like you still, you were right. You're right.

I think cause it's still like, it still would be a problem in the garden of Eden and you're still going to do a problem cause you wouldn't be walking around saying, it wouldn't be walking around saying, ah, you bit of the fruit. I didn't. So you're going to get in trouble, but I'm not even sure. That's right. That's right. Okay. Brother. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Yes it is. Okay. Thank you. All right, man.

God bless. All right now. Hey, if you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get to Buskman.

Hey Buskman. Welcome back. Hey, it's always good to hear your voice. I'm at, thanks for your service, uh, on truth talk network.

Man, I've learned a lot just hanging on my phone brother. Uh, I'm kind of close to Jamal's question. Um, and that is the whole phrase.

I don't know how to take it. I'm not voting for a pastor. We're voting for a president.

And as I look, are we talking about church? No, we're talking politics. We're talking in this election cycle. We're talking about, yeah, we're talking politics. Okay. Yeah.

So yeah, good, good, good differentiation. Um, so because of, of what happened over the weekend and everything, everybody's charged about the election and, and, and for the record, I hated to see that it really bothered me hearing those tasks behind, uh, Donald Trump talking. It was just, it was troubling for me, man. But anyway, the snapping, the bullets that you could hear in the background of the video, that, that kind of thing bothers me, you know, to hear that on live TV. So, and to see him duck. So I'm an emotional guy, Matt.

So it bothered me. Um, so, um, but back, back to the election question, everybody's saying, uh, we're not even on Christian radio, uh, pastors, Boston, we're not electing a pastor. We're electing a president. So that, that poses a question as I pour over scripture, man, um, how God, um, you know, uh, and I always go to King Saul, Matt, and I'm like, why did the Hebrews not choose God to be their King after everything that their God had done for them starting, you know, obviously removing them from Egypt via the, the, the power through Moses and using Moses as a leader. And yet they get around all these nations and they say, we want a King.

And God was like, okay, I'm wanting to give you what you want. Do you see any of that happening in our country now? Number one. And then number three.

Well, let me just try one thing. Yeah, of course that's happening. They, they are denying our country is postmodern, post-Christian, anti-Christian now. And, um, so they do not, our country as a whole does not bow to God, does not bother the truth of who Christ is and our country will fall. We will fail because of it.

That's how it always works. Wow, Matt, I agree with that. And that's what I see in the ancient history that we read about in our Old Testaments within our Bibles. And I'm like, okay, if I apply, uh, I believe it's Hebrews 13 and they use Jesus, uh, the Hebrew writer used the name Jesus. Jesus is the same yesterday, the day and forever. Then I apply, uh, God's, I guess, perspective and, and will, will be even in 2024 as it was when he was dealing with the ancient Hebrews with Moses.

And then when, uh, they started wanting a king instead of wanting him as their king. Right, they get that, they get what they want. So what, what, you got a question attached to all this? I do. Okay.

I do. I'm laying that preface down because I, it really bothers me, Matt, to hear this busman, we're voting for a president, not a pastor. And what that says to me, and when I hear pastors say that to me or Christians, you know, say that to me, I'm like, well, but, but how much, how much evil am I going to allow when I vote for them as opposed to, I can't take any, I'm not following you. I'm not following you because multifaceted that's taken different directions.

And so I can't follow you, but we are not voting for a question. The pastor's different than a question. Okay. Here's the question. Here's the question. How much evil is allowable for a man to have before you do not vote for him as a Christian, as a Christian voter? Okay.

When you say how much evil, then you have to have a system by which you quantify evil in order to answer the question. And then it becomes. Which I use scripture. Yes.

And it becomes very, very difficult to. Like thou shalt not kill. I use the ten commandments, thou shalt not kill.

Yeah. It's actually thou shall not murder. Okay. It's okay to kill under the right circumstances. Murder is not. All right.

Yes. And 14 week old, six day old babies should not be murdered. Should not be murdered. But the current big voting block, if you will, is going to say, yes, that's okay. No, I don't think they're saying it's okay. You gotta be careful.

You gotta be careful. You can't say that they're saying it's okay. They're not saying that if they vote for Trump. Well, hold on. If they vote for Trump, you can't say that all people who do that are automatically saying it's okay to kill babies in the womb because he's not as pro-life as he needs to be. And he doesn't need to be pro-life all the way. So you can't say that's what they're saying.

It's an improper inference. So we have, it's a very, very difficult thing to, it's a very difficult thing to do. What do we do? Do we want to vote? Okay, hold on Buskman. I know you're, I know this is a big deal for you, but look, we, this is a very difficult topic.

Yes it is. It's a very difficult topic to work through. And when you quantify evil, we can't do that.

This is why what happens. We have to say, what are we going to do and how are we going to vote? It's in a large sense, lesser of two evils. What do we do if we vote for Trump? Is it said we're voting for killing babies or we've, or are we saying we don't want the leftist commie regime in, which will kill everybody.

I mean, what do you do? And so people are stuck with this kind of a problem. So it's a tough one. Not really, not really, not really because yeah, yeah, because what I think of is, this is how I look at it, Matt. I look at it from an eternal standpoint when I'm standing in front of God on my judgment day, why busman did you vote for a man who allowed babies to die under his regime? Okay.

When you could have not and take me as your King personally over your house, over the busking in the house and I would have been okay. We can't, we can't, we can't keep going. We can't keep going this way. There's too many variables and just not going to work. Okay.

It's just not an easy thing. Okay. Would you vote for King David? Yes.

After the first Chronicles 21 conversion where he bought the field and said, look, I don't give a hold on. Hold on. I just asked a simple question. Would you have voted for David? And the answer is yes.

After the town of the troops and after his conversion from Bathsheba's murder of Uriah, I would have. Okay. Well good.

Because he repented Matt, because he repented and I don't see any repentance in Mr. Trump. Um, I don't. Okay.

I don't see any, I don't see any Jesus. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Why don't you gather together some documentation and send stuff to me so I can see and see what's going on, what his position actually is. To be honest, I don't know. I would be glad to do that, Mr. Smith. I would be, I'll have that to you tonight, sir. Sounds good.

I want to see it. Absolutely. Thanks for your time, man. I really appreciate this. All right.

God bless you, sir. Okay. All right, folks. We're about 15 seconds out from the end of the show.

If you want, you have to wait until tomorrow. These are tough topics. These are tough topics. What do we do? Our country's in very bad shape. Who do we vote for?

Because if we don't vote, well, what do we do? Good discussions. Maybe we can have some more talk about that tomorrow night or tomorrow evening for you guys out there on the East Coast. If you want, you can give me a call then. May the Lord bless you. Have a great evening, and we'll talk to you tomorrow. By God's grace, God bless.