Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Matt Slick Live for answers at 877-207-2276.

Matt Slick Live for answers at 877-iddler.com www.karm.org and it'll forward you to the donate stuff. And we have a new system there. So what we are working on is that you can now go in there, you can adjust your donations, you can see what you've done, how much and everything, it should all be set up. And we're gonna be doing some slow modifications on the website so that it looks lickety split.

And hope you're liking that. All right, well, why don't we just do this? Let's get to Jermaine from the Bay Area in California. Welcome Jermaine, you're on the air. Oh, hi, Matt.

Hi. Okay, what have we got, man? Yeah, just wanted to get your take on, I don't know if you've heard anything about the Shroud of Turin and the supposed new, I guess what they're calling evidence of it being proof that it was Jesus' burial cloth. I wanted to see if there was any validity to that and also can that move kind of dangerously into idol worship, because I know a lot of Catholics really, they like that kind of thing. So I just wanted to hear what you had to say.

Yeah, they do. That reminds me of what you just said. When I was in Jerusalem, we'd go to various sacred sites. And all of us Protestants are like, oh, that's cool, look at that. That's really neat where Jesus did this and Jesus did that. And you could tell where the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox were because they're kneeling, kissing objects and things like that. And it was sad. But nevertheless, it could become an object of worship and adoration.

And I can see why. If it was really the actual burial cloth of Christ, that would be pretty significant. Now, is it? I don't know.

I haven't been keeping up on the latest, though I have heard that they found some new stuff a few months ago, or this year, I think, and it supports the idea that it really is old in a time of Christ. So I don't know. I learned that. Okay, yeah, I think that's true.

And also, yeah, I know they, I think they had what was supposed to be a piece of the forearm of James. And they were taking that around the Bay Area, I think around the Sacramento area, and people were lined up for hours and hours just to kind of be around it because they felt they would get a blessing off of it, so that's why I was asking because I was like, it can get dangerous. Yeah, if people want a blessing from the Lord, get on your knees and pray and ask the Lord to change you and to make you more like Christ. That's a blessing. What people want as a blessing is make me healthy, make me wealthy, do this, do that. They want to be blessed. The blessing comes to be more like Christ and to be able to serve him, even if we have to suffer in the process. That's a blessing.

But yeah, superstition abides everywhere. That's all I know, buddy, okay? All right, thank you. All right, man, God bless. Okay.

Good stuff. Well, that was Jermaine, and he always has good stuff to say, good questions and stuff like that. And if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. All right, let's get to Jason from Salt Lake City. Jason, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt.

Hey, how you doing, man? I'm all right. I had a question concerning in light of texts like Romans 5.18 and following, I guess, one trespass leading to condemnation for all men, one act of righteousness leading to justification in life for all men. That's a bad translation of the ESV. That's a bad translation.

We think it's just a bad translation, okay. What about the following verse in 19 where it says the many, both in reference to sin and righteousness? Okay, I can go through both of those verses because I know them both pretty well. And what you read was out of the ESV, which is a bad translation of that particular verse.

What the best translation is resulted. So as then through one transgression, there resulted condemnation to all men. So also through one act of righteousness, there resulted justification of life to all men. Justification means you're saved, and it says it resulted to all men. The problem here is not in the translation.

The problem is in what people are doing with it. There are two groups called the all, each represented by different people. One is represented by Adam, and one is represented by Christ.

This is called federal headship. And if you read like starting around verse 15 in that chapter, you'll see that evidence is there. But also you can go to 1 Corinthians 15, 22, which says in Adam, all die in Christ. All should be made alive. So again, we see the word all being in reference to two different groups, each represented by their federal head.

Adam is the first one, and Jesus is the, who's called the last Adam, 1 Corinthians 15, 45. So translators, what they'll do is because it says the resulted justification of life to all men, they changed the verb form from result to led to it. So that way they don't have the implication of universalism. But the problem is it's not universalism, it's federal headship in two different groups. But I can get into that in more details.

So that's what's going on. Furthermore, the sin of Adam resulted in everybody falling. It didn't make it possible.

It happened. We know that from Romans 519. For us through one man's transgression, the many were made sinners.

They were made sinners by what he did. In the Greek, it's an aorist passive indicative. And this is significant, an aorist passive indicative. Aorist means past tense. Passive means it happened to them. The action was performed upon them.

And indicative means it's a statement of fact. So aorist passive indicative is saying they were, back then, made sinners. As to one man's transgression, the many were made sinners. So who's the many who were made sinners?

Interesting. Even so, through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous. So here what Paul's doing is he is, again, using the same word phrase for two different groups. He does this in Romans 518, 1 Corinthians 15, 22. In Adam all die, in Christ all should be made alive. In Romans 518, through one transgression, the result of condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness, the result of justification of life to all men. So those words, all, in both of those cases, the first part is reference to Adam, who he represented. And the second is representing Jesus, who he represented. Then we see the same thing with the phrase, the many. Whereas through the one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous. What Paul the apostle is doing is teaching about representation.

It's called federal headship, which is a teaching that the male, not the female, represents the descendants. So what we have here is simple. Adam, when he sinned, brought condemnation to everybody. And everybody fell in him, Romans 519. They were made sinners by what he did. Therefore, we have to say that the transgression resulted in condemnation to everyone.

That's what Adam did. Even so, verse 18, the one act of righteousness that resulted justification of life to all men. And the all there is not the same group of all in the first part. The same thing in verse 19. Through one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous. It's a little more advanced theology than people are recognizing or are familiar with, but that's what's going on. I don't know if that helps, does it? Yeah, it does. I think just like you said, it maybe takes a little bit more of an advanced understanding of theology because the cursor read just, you see all there in both situations, it would seem like limited atonement wouldn't hold up a lot of the text like that.

You're saying that the all of two separate groups want to build up and want to move. Actually, it's in support of limited atonement because in 18b, there resulted justification of life to all men. The all is only the group of people who are saved as a specific group.

And I can tell you where that comes from, too. So this is theology I've been teaching for years and years and years, so I'm very familiar with this stuff. And most Christians are very ill-prepared to understand it because they're just not taught deep theology anymore. It's a shame. Yeah, I'm just reading my Bible and trying to parse it out on my own.

I don't have time for Bible school or anything. But I appreciate the insight. Thank you. All right, no problem.

I've written an article on this specifically if you want to have information on it, where I've actually gone through Romans 5.18 in detail. I've gone through and talked about it. But you can email me if you want it or whatever. I'll give you the information.

Great, thank you. All right, man, God bless. OK, well, everybody, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get to Joe from High Point, North Carolina.

Joe, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, Matt, can you hear me clearly?

Yes, I can. I hear you fine, buddy. So what do you got? Great.

Got a question. You know, we've grown up and seen pictures of angels and all of our lives in different shapes and forms. But the one that gives me a reason to ask this question is I've got into a discussion with a family member. And she believes, up and down, that there are female angels. And that doesn't make any sense to me because I've never seen the Bible refer to any female. They've all been males. Is there any truth to that?

Well, there's a yes and no to it. So biologically, angels are neither male nor female. They don't have a gender. When they manifest, they manifest typically as male.

Some people go to Zechariah 5-9 to support the idea of female angels. Then I lifted up my eyes and looked. And there were two women coming out with the wind in their wings. And they had wings like the wings of a stork. And they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens. And so some will go there.

That's the only place that they could go to say anything like that. And so the problem with that is it's dealing with a flying scroll, which dimensions are 20 cubits long, 10 cubits wide. And we have a break coming up. So we come back.

We'll review it a little bit more and go through it. So hold on, man. Hey, folks. If you want to give me a call, the number is 8772072276.

If you want to give me a call, right now is the time. God bless. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to the show. Zechariah 5, 9 is sometimes used, but the context in Zechariah 5, 1 through 11. The context is there's a scroll.

It's a vision thing that's happening. And as Zechariah is saying, wickedness is going forth. And it's going to enter into the house of the thief and the bad people. And he says, behold, verse 7, the lead cover was lifted up.

And this is a woman sitting inside the ephah. Then he said, this is wickedness. And he threw her down into the middle of the ephah and cast the lead weight on its opening. Then I lifted my eyes up. And there were two women coming out with the wind in their wings.

And they had wings like the wings of a stork. And they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens. I said to the angel who was speaking with me, where are they taking the ephah?

This is critical right here. Then he said to me, to build a temple for her in the land of Shinar. And when it is prepared, she will be set there on her own pedestal. So the vision is that the two women with the wind in their hair are taking the ephah to go commit idolatry. So we can't say that, from this verse, that the angels were women here.

But sometimes people use it, Zechariah 5-9, for that purpose. OK, that's it, all right? Well, I have to go back and read that. It can be a little confusing. So I'm inclined to agree with what you're saying. So thank you very much for your input on that.

Sure. And one thing, when they say that there's female angels, maybe there is something in the Bible that shows that. I just haven't seen it or don't recall it. So I could be wrong. But just ask people, OK, where?

What's the verse? And always read something in context. Always read it in context, all right?

That's what you've got to do. You get a lot of wind in the background there. I don't know if your window's open or what, but a lot of wind. No, it's on my window.

Sound system doesn't play all that great with it. But thank you. OK, all right, well, sounds good. All right, well, God bless. OK. OK, we'll see. Yes, sir. All right, mate. All right.

Yeah, we don't have anybody waiting right now. But what happens is, what's in the Bible is that they appear as male. And if some women don't like that, OK, now what do we do? You don't like it? Whatever. But I've talked to some women. They said, no, it's patriarchal.

It's misogynistic. They're always as males. And I said, what, you want female angels? And they said, well, they should be if it wasn't patriarchal. I actually had this conversation once.

And I said, OK, well, is Satan to be considered female then too? The conversation ended at that point. All right, so let's get back over here. I got ahead of you.

People trying to set up debates with me and stuff like that. I'm trying to get to this one I was going to look at. Where'd it go? Wait, I think I moved it over here.

A radio question. So I'll tell you what, I'll get to that. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. And I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. And also, hey, we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us. Just go to karm.org forward slash donate.

And you know what, we don't ask too much. Maybe, if you're willing, you could do $5 a month. That helps us set up priorities and budgets and things like that, $5 a month.

It's about one and a half, two cups of coffee a month if you're out having fun. And we could use that. So if you'd be so inclined, just go to karm.org forward slash donate. So here's a question. I thought it was a good question. A pastor told my husband that Paul did not write Ephesians. Is there any basis for that statement? Not that I'm aware of.

It's understood that Paul is the one who wrote Ephesians. So I've not heard that one. I'm not going to see the evidence for that. Same pastor at a funeral service said that when we die, we go to a holding place for three days. Boy, oh boy, oh boy.

After three days, we can decide to stay or return. Oh my goodness. I think some of the talent of football players is missed in situations like this at a funeral service. A football player would be very useful.

One of those big guys who can run really fast and fly horizontally tackling somebody as he tackles this heretic preacher and gets him out of the way. Of course, at a funeral, I guess it wouldn't be that good, but that's what I'm thinking. Wait, we can decide to stay or return that for three days. That's in the book of Stupidification. And that's where you get that one.

Next to Second Moronicals. OK, he said all memories of previous life will be wiped away if we decide to return. That is just, where is he getting this?

This is ridiculous. To me, this sounded like reincarnation. Yeah, it does. After the funeral, a few of us discussed that statement. None of us had heard of this before. Are you familiar with this belief? Yes. It's in a lot of heresy talks. There's variations.

Not the three day thing I hadn't heard, but we decide to return, our memories are wiped, and blah, blah, blah. This guy doesn't know what he's doing. He's not qualified to be a pastor. He couldn't teach his way out of a wet paper heresy bag if he had a drill press, a sledge hammer, and a chainsaw.

So much heresy, so little time. Hey, let's get to John from Raleigh, North Carolina. John, welcome. You're on the air.

One minute, that is. Oh, hey, buddy. Hey, you see the new stuff, the new avatar I put up? Yeah, I'm looking for a background removal.

I sent you last night. I finally came across that. Huh? Well, just so you know, I ordered a white background screen I was going to put up there and do one with a white background screen, because I think the next level up, you get to remove it.

What's that? Yeah, yeah, in order to get it removed, we've got to bump up another level. But I'm looking at a couple of programs that will just take the video and remove it so that it basically inserts the white screen for the extraction.

Well, I'm going to try tomorrow with the white screen if I have enough time. But for those of you who don't know, this is John. And we call him One Minute John because it just developed, because we're working on doing one-minute videos. So he calls, yeah, One Minute John. Oh, yeah, One Minute John.

So that's his nickname now. And so we're working with a system and a program to try and get it so that we can just put in text, and it'll just show videos. And that way, it saves me a lot of time. Well, let me ask you, what did you think of the last iteration I gave? Do you think it's better?

I mean, except for the background. It's getting better, yeah. OK, it's getting better. The one you did last night, I have not seen. I've seen the one before that. All right.

And that's when I started looking at software to pull it out. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what. I'm supposed to get the white background cloth today.

That's what I was, you know, an email. And if I can get it, then I can, I mean, put it in the dryer and get all the wrinkles down, and I'll put it up, and then I'll do another one and see if I can get it. Oh, I see, yeah. Yeah, they've got those ones that are on a fold-up thing, and when you unfold it, it keeps it all stretched out really good.

And that way there's no wrinkles or anything. But that should work. I'm sure we'll get it. Yeah, it's just money. And then I'm the producer.

I'm the film crew, the cameraman, the script writer. Yeah. OK, hey, look, there's a break. So hold on, buddy. We'll be right back, OK? Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2217. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276. Let's get back to John.

As soon as they reactivate him, there he is. Hey, John. Yeah.

All right, buddy, I'm back on the air. So we're starting a Genesis Bible study, which is getting back for a couple years since then, and I've been listening to it on YouTube, NSAB 95. And I'm now looking at it, and I'm seeing why, if you're a blind person, you could have the same question I had. So I'm in chapter 2, verse 23, where the man says, this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. And it continues from the audio, for this reason, a man shall leave his father, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, if Eve was just created out of man, how could man be talking about having a wife and leaving some other office?

And I'm seeing, as I read it now, a man said some quotes, and then line 24 is back to being the word. Yeah, because Genesis 1 is not a description that's meant to be taken scientifically. There's a lot of theories about what Genesis 1 is supposed to be there, because Genesis 1 has seven days, but Genesis 2 basically has one in the day that. Also, if you notice, day 1 and day 4 are similar, and day 2 and day 5 and day 3 and day 6. You can put them next to each other, you can see a similarity.

So something is going on there. What he's doing there is just giving the background. Moses has just given the background of the basics. He's not talking about chronologically this or that.

There's a lot of other factors that go in. He just didn't write. So when this is written, he's writing about it to them later. He's saying, this was written to Moses. God did this with Adam, and this is why, ladies and gentlemen who are reading this, we leave our parents and we go get married. So he's inserting a then contemporary theological point about what it was related to back then. Does that make sense?

Yeah, well, like I said, we're in preparation. We know we're going to Genesis, so I've been listening to it as I go to bed. And I'll wake up at times, and it'll be Jacob, and it's been really fun. But this one section has always got me because I've been listening to it. And when they do it on the playback, you don't get the verse versus the line. And like I said, the Bible, the word is talking about, for this reason, man shall leave his father, as opposed to what man said about calling woman. And when they say that, they believe it together. And you're wondering, well, how come Adam is talking about the man should leave his father and his mother? It's kind of silly. And they finally brought it up in front of me to ask you that question about how that works.

And obviously, you know, a blind person could definitely have problems with this unless they're reading through Braille. I missed that one. So you want to see the connection between verse 23 and 24?

Both of my bones. When you're listening to an audio version of the Bible, they believe it together. And it's like Adam is saying that, for this reason, it doesn't end the quote. And that's why I was confused. So I figured, oh, nobody's online, so I'll ask you this question, what's going on there. And now that I see it, I could have answered my own question.

That's all right. Yeah, there's just a quote. It's just what it is. In Hebrew, there's no quote marks. But it's just what it is. And the readers understood it, because the man said, and then for this reason, and they were both naked. So they were both naked is not something that Adam would be saying.

It's something that's the commentary by Moses. So yeah, that's OK. It's all right. Good stuff. I will let you have a blessed day and evening, and we'll talk soon.

Yeah, we will. That's right. I'm working stuff. OK, buddy. Well, God bless.

Thank you, sir. All right. OK. All right. All right, all right.

Now, we don't have any callers waiting, but if you want to call me, the number's 877-207-2276. And all I'll do is get some more radio questions. Let's see. OK, that was about Laverton Hart.

I already did that one recently. I'm a Christian, but I don't agree with many of your political views. I do catch a radio show here and there. Must protest your assertion that no way could a Christian be a Democrat. No, I didn't say a Christian could not be a Democrat. I said, I don't see how a knowledgeable Christian could be a Democrat when they understand what the Democratic Party stands for.

That's what I say. A person says, even though I consider myself an independent voter, one could easily conclude there's no way a Christian could be a Republican. And maybe, but a Democrat's even worse.

All politicians lie, sometimes intentionally, sometimes not, but Mr. Trump seems to have been taken lying to art form. Yeah, whatever. That, to me, is just leftist stuff. So let's talk about this. Can a true Christian be a real Democrat? Now, I know a lot of people, their ears are perking up. Who are Democrats?

Yes, we can. Can you, if you're a Christian and you claim to be a Democrat, then notice this. The Democratic Party is the party that supports killing the unborn in the womb, is the party that supports LGBTQ and its oppressive move in society and getting it into the heads of children and things like that. The Democratic Party, the Democrats, have been well-documented to use deception all the time in order to gain power.

And then they just go back to their old ways. They lie about something. They're also the party that was founded and supported slavery. That's the truth.

Go look it up. And they supported the Jim Crow laws. So my question is, if you're a Christian, do you want to support a party that presently supports the idea of killing the unborn and pro-LGBTQ woke stuff, which is clearly against scripture?

Both are against scripture vehemently. So my question is, if you're a Christian and you're a Democrat, how can you do that? And people might say, well, better than being a Republican. Well, maybe it is.

Maybe it isn't. Republican Party isn't much better. So how could you belong to any party that is for killing the unborn and the promotion of the LGBT, the alphabet mob, and all of it all over our society and opening the borders to be flooded in by illegals? And you know that a lot of countries open their prison doors and say, go up north, go to America. And then that same party, leftist political party, gives money to, in fact in California they're talking about passing a bill to give illegals $150,000 loans so they can buy houses. And the vets who sacrificed for this country, what are they doing? What's the country doing for them? And it goes on and on.

I'm not an expert in this stuff, but I know enough to know. There's a lot of injustices there. So I have real problems with that kind of thing from the Democratic Party.

I don't understand how anybody who's a knowledgeable Christian, who truly follows Jesus, would also belong to a party and give your support to the one party that supports killing the unborn and the alphabet mob. I don't understand that. Let's get to Ken from Salt Lake City. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how you doing? Hey. I'm doing OK, hanging in there.

What do you got, buddy? Oh, I just wanted to thank you for your testimony. And about three months ago, you were talking about your testimony.

I went on a car and I read it. Pretty great testimony. And I just wanted to thank you for helping me with my testimony about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

So I appreciate that. So you have a testimony that Joseph Smith is true? Yes.

You do? Do you believe the Bible's true? Yes.

OK. So did Joseph Smith see God the Father? And the Son. So he did see God the Father. I'll read to you what the Bible says.

And the Son. Yeah, I know. I'll read to you what the Bible says. I know what the Bible says. It says in 1 Timothy 6 14 and 15 and 16.

And it says, to keep the commandments without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus, which he, the Father, will bring about at proper time. He's blessed, the only Sovereign, the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see. We'll get back to the break if you're still there. Please tell me how Joseph Smith saw God the Father in the first vision when the Bible says no one can see him. That would be an interesting question. We'll be right back. OK, hold on.

We'll see if the person can answer the question. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. As soon as the producer reactivates, there he is right there, Ken. Hey. Are you there?

I have to turn up the volume in my truck because you're so low on the volume, I have to turn it way up. So yes, I'm still here. OK. Sorry about that. I just turned it up on my end, too. We're on a different channel.

Hey, thank you. It's less volume. But OK, so the Bible says that the Father cannot be seen. So did Joseph Smith see the Father? Did Stephen see him?

No. Stephen saw the glory of God. And if you were to go to Acts 7, 55-60. He saw Jesus sitting on the right hand of God when he was being stoned.

Yes. And I was saying, it says, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. That means on the right side of God the Father in his glory. He saw the glory of God. He didn't see God. But the glory of him is light. OK. OK. When Jesus came back after he was resurrected, he was walking around, quote, what you say, without his glory. And his apostles didn't even recognize him. No.

And then he disappeared. No. And they said, did not our bosom burn?

What? Go ahead. No.

No. It wasn't that he was without his glory. It's because he was crucified.

He retained his crucifixion wounds. You go to John. I'm sorry. Wait. Wait. Wait.

Wait. You said he was crucified in what? He retained his crucifixion wounds. If you go to John 20, 25-28, he said, after his resurrection, put your hand into my side.

Put your finger into my hand. They didn't recognize him. Look under the nails. They didn't recognize him.

No. When he was walking, when he was walking right alongside of him. I'm trying to explain it. I'm trying to explain it. It says in Luke 24, their eyes were beheld from seeing him.

They were prevented from seeing him. That's what it says. Okay. Well, I would imagine that that has happened to a lot of people since the resurrection. See, it says in Luke 24, 16, but their eyes were prevented from recognizing him. So it's not a good verse for you to use. And furthermore, what you just did.

Well, you sure it is. It says, because when he left, they said, did not our bosom burn. So the Holy Ghost was bearing witness who he was.

Uh, yeah, because they're true believers. Okay. And now hold on a sec. Hold on a sec. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on. Joseph Smith did not see God, the father, because the Bible says he dwells in unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see.

Cannot see him. Okay. If God, the father wants to come down and show himself to someone. Is that okay? No, because he said it can't be done because you can do whatever you want.

Hey, hold on a sec. God doesn't contradict himself. The word of God is inspired. He's not going to contradict. I know that.

I believe that. No, you hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. The Bible's not going to contradict. When you say, well, God wants to do it, come down.

He's not going to because he doesn't contradict himself. So your question is a false question. The Bible says, yes, it is.

It's an issue of logic. And I'm going to tell you, the father cannot be seen. That's what Paul the apostle says. I am saying that if God the father, because of truths have been taken off the earth, had to come down to restore those things that were gone, so obviously he came down and restored those things. But they were never lost.

This is, look, I've been studying, sorry, I'm going to use the word cults for a long time. I listen to you all the time, Matt. Good. You're a good guy. Good. I really appreciated your testimony. But, look. And I'm grateful. Dude.

I'm grateful for all the things you talk about in my church because I investigate and I find out what's going on. Dude, Joseph Smith lied. He said he saw God the father. No, he didn't. He did not. Now, look, I'm going to be down in Salt Lake.

Yes, he did. I'm going to be down in Salt Lake on Saturday and Sunday in two weeks. I know. Now, if you want to meet, we can meet.

But we can meet someplace. But I'll tell you. Joseph Smith said he saw God the father, but the Bible says he cannot be seen. He dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see. That's what the word of God says. You're denying the word of God. No, I'm not.

Yes, you are. Does the scripture say that the father cannot be seen? I disagree with you telling me that God can't do that. He can't because Paul the apostle, who's an apostle under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote that he alone possesses immortality, dwells in unapproachable light whom no man has seen or can see.

That's it. That's the apostle writing. He's under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So no man can see God the father. I just proved that Joseph Smith lied and Mormonism is false. Matt, if in 300 A.D. and 400 A.D. things were taken out of the New and the Old Testaments – That's not true. I'm sorry. But that's just not true.

Really? Yes, really. You don't understand what the issue is. You don't understand this stuff. You have not studied it. That is not true. You're being told lies and you're believing them because whatever you're going to find – Look, the creed is different than you saying the books of the Bible have been taken out in the third and fourth centuries. That's not the case. Wait, wait, wait. You're saying right here in front of all these people that nothing has been taken out of the Bible. That's correct. Wow.

That's correct. Now, what I've shown you from what is in the Bible that God cannot be seen. You've got to understand something. Let me tell you, you deny what Christ said through Apostle Paul because Jesus says Paul is his witness. So Paul is speaking for Jesus and this is saying that the Father dwells in an unapproachable light who no man has seen or can see. Because you deny it, the Holy Spirit that you think you believe in is not really from God. It's from a different spirit and you're believing it and you're being deceived which is why you doubt the authenticity of the word of God and you believe in Joseph Smith.

And Joseph Smith was an occultist who was involved in some pretty bad stuff. How can Joseph Smith say that the Father and the Son have a physical body and the Holy Ghost does not have a physical body and Satan doesn't have a physical body? How can he say that? By opening his mouth and uttering words. That's how he can say it. Is it true?

No, it's not. As the Bible says, Jesus says that God is spirit, John 4.24, and he says in Luke 24.39, the Spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones, he's not six feet tall, he's not an exalted man from the other world who has a goddess wife. When you are resurrected and you receive all the power that Heavenly Father has, what will that make you? That would make me a false god because it's impossible for me to have all the power that God has because there's only one God and he was always God, Isaiah 43, 44, and 45 says that.

He was never a man on another planet who became a god. So when you get resurrected, what are you going to be doing for the rest of your life for all eternity and all eternity? I'm going to be with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in glory and his presence.

Are you going to be singing hymns? You just ask me, you keep doing this, you ask me, I have to answer you and you jump all over my words. Is this what Mormonism teaches you? I can't, I'm telling you. Are you being sufficiently humble?

You turn your volume up, I'll tell it, go ahead. Are you being sufficiently humble? Come on.

Yes. You are? Are you being sufficiently humble?

I am listening to you, I am trying to be tall. No you're not, come on, on the 527, come on, you're going to be, okay, just use the Book of Mormon against you, look, Joseph Smith said he saw God the Father, the Bible says you can't see God the Father, you're believing a false prophet. So you're telling me and everyone out there that when we pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ and we receive an answer, Satan's going to answer? For you, yeah.

For everyone? No, not everyone, because you see, Jesus says, I can't receive answers to my prayers. No, you receive answers from the demonic forces, and the evidence that that is the case is because you believe false things, you believe lies, like God, you believe God gave them their planet, that's not God. I'm telling you, I am telling you, or I'm not telling you, I'm asking you, when I pray to Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, Satan is allowed to step in and answer that prayer. Yes, because the Jesus you believe in is the brother of the devil begotten through sexual relations between God and his God, his wife who came from another planet, that's not the Jesus of the Bible. Wait, wait, how, this is before I was a member of the Church. So what Jesus, I mean, I attended Pentecostal, I attended Salvation Army, I've gone to the Catholic Church, I've gone to the Greek Orthodox Church.

You're all over the place. Have you gone straight to Jesus and asked Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins? Have you asked Jesus to forgive you of all your sins? I did. I asked the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, to forgive my sins.

No, no, no, I didn't say that. I said you asked Jesus, not the Father, Jesus. No. Can you pray to... I asked the Father.

Okay, let me show you something. The Jesus of the Bible's prayed to, he's worshiped, he's called God. Do you worship Jesus? I know he's a God. Not a God, there's only one God. He's called God. There's three Gods. No, there's not three Gods.

The Bible says there's only one God, none created before, none created after, God doesn't even know of any other Gods. So wait, wait, Ben, real quick, what does the word us mean? It means what it means in context. Okay, put it in context. What does us mean? Us went to the store, as most bad people talk now. Okay, in the beginning, when the world was being, wait, I'm asking you a question. In the beginning, in Genesis, when the God says, let us go down and make man in our image.

Put that in context for me. Yeah, that's the one God, because God is one being, because that who's speaking there is Yahweh. Who's us? Yahweh.

I'll explain. Yahweh, Jehovah, is the name of Elohim. In 1 Kings 8, 60, it says Jehovah is Elohim. So when you go to Genesis 1, 26, it says Elohim said, let us make man in our image, right? Let us make man in our image according to our likeness.

You're going to save the three Gods. But in Isaiah 44, 24, it says this, thus says Jehovah, your Redeemer and the one who formed me from the womb, I Jehovah and the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself and spreading out the earth all alone. So if you want to say Elohim in Mormonism is the name of God the Father, and yet Jehovah, who's supposed to be Jesus in your theology, is the one who did it all by himself, how can both be true if they're contradicting each other from your perspective?

I don't have a perspective on it. I know who Elohim is and I know who Jehovah is. Jehovah is Elohim, 1 Kings 8, 60. It says Jehovah is Elohim. Well, he's an express image of his father.

Hebrews 1, 3, look, it says Jehovah is Elohim. That's what it says. Oh, we're out of time. Hey, Ken, look, we got to go. Okay. We're out of time. All right. Call back tomorrow. We'll go at it some more. Okay.

I love this stuff. I mean, we can meet when I come down there in a couple of weeks. Okay, buddy. I got to go, buddy. All right. Talk to you later. You too. And hey, Brett from Buffalo, I want to talk to you about Will Duffy and John from Cleveland. Can women preach?

No, they can't. And I'll explain why tomorrow if you call me. God bless everybody. God bless everybody here.