Share This Episode
Matt Slick Live! Matt Slick Logo

Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick
The Truth Network Radio
May 22, 2024 2:02 pm

Matt Slick Live

Matt Slick Live! / Matt Slick

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 1002 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.


May 22, 2024 2:02 pm

The Matt Slick Live -Live Broadcast of 05-20-2024- is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry -CARM-. Matt answers questions on topics like The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues- -You can also email questions to Matt using- info-carm.org, Put -Radio Show Question- in the Subject line- Answers will be discussed in a future show.-Topics Include---Calling on the name of the Lord--What about children of Christians--What did Jesus do while entombed--Purgatory--Do we pray to Jesus--MSL- May 20, 2024

YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

Click the link at the top of the screen to learn more about Truth Network. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

It should all be good, but we'll work it. ...building the case that it called upon the name of the Lord meant to pray to Jesus, that we could pray to Jesus. And so I wanted to...all I had said at that time was the reasons why I felt it did not say that, but I'd like to address today what I feel it does say. So if I have your attention for a moment, maybe I could comment on that. So I have about five or six scriptures, but I think it's important to go to the beginning of Chapter 10, where... Hold on, hold on. I've got to be careful here. I don't want you to do like a 10-minute Bible study. No, no. No, this is real quick.

Real quick. Just an overview. Because you have to establish that what Paul is starting to talk about is about faith, about righteousness. He talks about the righteousness of man by the law and the righteousness of God by faith, faith in Jesus Christ. Because he says in Verse 4, For Christ is the end of the law.

Christ even himself says, I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. We move on to getting to Verse 13. But 9 and 10 is important because here's where Paul, I believe, makes the transition from faith, which is of the heart, and confessing with the mouth. And this is crucial.

In 9, there's three words in 9 and 10. Confess, mouth, and save. In both those, mouth, salvation, if in the heart, man believes. So faith comes in the heart, but there's another element that Paul is getting across to us, and that we need to confess with the mouth our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And so that, I believe, is what Verse 13 is, Whosoever shall call upon the name, which means invoke the name. I'm proposing that that's what that means, is that whoever shall invoke the name of Jesus Christ shall be saved.

There's something that I believe we need to do with the mouth, you know, to confess. Colossians and Ephesians, I'll finish up with that. We're told to, just real quick I'll finish, we're to do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks always to God the Father, and then giving thanks always to God for everything to God in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So that's kind of basically, and I think it's kind of interesting, Paul begins in Verse 1, he says, My heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved. So Paul even starts Chapter 10 with his prayer to God. So, and there's so many other scriptures, like you say, this can't be a Bible study.

Yeah, but I think you're missing the whole point. You see, the phrase in the Old Testament, call upon the name of Yahweh, is used only of God Almighty, right? The phrase, right?

Call upon the name of Yahweh. Okay, and the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation done by the Jews about 250 B.C., they translated that phrase into the Hebrew into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord. So that whenever you have the phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, it's a reference to Yahweh.

Okay? So what I have to say about that is in Chapter 17 of John, Jesus prays very earnestly about the name, about the name. He says, I protected them with your name, which you gave me. So, yeah, no. You're not listening.

I've done this hundreds of times with people. Okay, so there's a phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh. The phrase, not just the word call, not the word name, not the word Lord, but call upon the name of Yahweh. I checked, there's variations of it, called on the name of Yahweh, calling on the name of Yahweh, but it's always a phrase used only of Yahweh, God Almighty. That's just how it is in the Old Testament.

Can't get around it. That's what it is. All right, now, the Septuagint, which is translated from the Hebrew into the Greek by the Jews. They didn't know who Jesus was, like 250 B.C. They translated it as call upon the name of the Lord, hakurios, the Lord. So the phrase in Greek, call upon the name of the Lord, is equivalent to call upon the name of Yahweh.

That's just how it is. Okay, you with me so far? Yes. The phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, is used of Jesus. Why would Paul, in 1 Corinthians 1-2, okay, when he says this to the saints and everyone everywhere who call upon the name of the Lord of us, Jesus.

Yes, absolutely. Why would he use a phrase that is only in reference to Yahweh, God Almighty, and apply it to Jesus? Because Jesus was given the name above every other name, that in his name all should be done. Okay, so is the phrase, which is only addressed to Yahweh, and then it's addressed to Jesus. Why would Paul use a phrase only addressed and means only to Yahweh, and he's referring it to Jesus?

You want to try that again? No, if you could, well first of all, the Septuagint is just a translation. Okay, we have to be careful of translation, alright?

So it's, I don't know how many versions there are of the Septuagint, but it is only a translation. And the word Lord, the word Lord is used on many levels and referring to many different things. What I'm saying to you is that it's so important that you are missing the point here in Romans 10, that we are to, with our mouth, confess Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Yes, I got that, but you're not hearing. I said not just the word Lord. In this reference, but you're diverting it.

No, you are, Juanita. I said it's the phrase, not just the word. I said the phrase, and you say the Septuagint is just a translation. It's what the Jews themselves did in their translation. It's how they understood it. And that phrase, which Paul used out of the Septuagint, he applied to Jesus. My question to you is very simple. Why would Paul the Apostle use a phrase out of the Septuagint which is in reference only to Yahweh and apply it to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1 verse 2?

Why would he do that? What's your answer? Because we're to call on the name of Jesus Christ.

We are not to pray to Jesus Christ. Okay, so here you go. I've done this a hundred times.

The phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, which is in Psalm 116 4. And I'll read it to you. This is difficult for you. I'm not trying to mock you. I'm just saying it's difficult. I've done this so many times with people.

I know all the responses that they have. Then I called upon the name of Yahweh. Oh Yahweh, I beseech you, save my life. It's a prayer to Yahweh, to call upon his name. Right there is prayer in Psalm 116 4. That phrase in the Septuagint done by the Jews is called upon the name of the Lord. So it would be, I called upon the name of the Lord.

Oh Lord, I beseech you, save my life. So the phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, right there is referencing prayer to the Lord, Yahweh. And that phrase is applied to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1 2.

Why? The phrase, why? The phrase could be applied in many things, but what call upon the name of the Lord means call upon Jesus. It was a foreshadowing or whatever, but in verse 13 of Romans, Paul is not, as you suggested last week, inferring that we should be praying to Jesus. In verse 13, what they're saying, what he's saying is that we need to confess with our mouth our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

That's what it's saying. I'm not talking about Romans 10, I'm talking about 1 Corinthians 1 verse 2. No, don't try to divert here. What we're talking about is last week, you said you pointed me to this scripture to kind of show that we can pray to Jesus. And I said, I know that's not what that means. Jesus told us quite plainly how to pray, to pray to the Father. And he also said, ask me anything in my name and I will do it, John 14, 14. But look, you deny that Jesus is God in flesh? That's what Jesus said, I'm just quoting John 14, 14.

But look, I'm asking you a specific question. Read John 14. Read John 14, what did it say? It said that the Word became flesh, not God became flesh. Yeah, and the Word was God. It's called the law of proper inference, okay?

If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. This is all it is, it's just basic logic. But if you check the Greek on John 1-1, it says that God was the Word. There's something... Juanita, the phrase call upon the name of Yahweh is equal to the phrase call upon the name of the Lord. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord is used of Jesus. Why would Paul the Apostle use a phrase that means worship, adoration, and prayer to the Lord and apply it to Jesus? There's a break. Can you come back and answer that specific question?

Why would Paul use a phrase that designates prayer, adoration, and worship to God Almighty, Yahweh, and apply it to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1-2? That's my question, we're all going to get back, okay? Hold on, hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. ...funded by the support of the listeners. If you like what you're hearing, please consider supporting us. All you have to do is go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G forward slash donate. All the info that you need is right there, we'd really appreciate it. Five or ten dollars a month is what we ask.

And you know what, I'll just tell you really fast that the support that you give really does make a big difference because it keeps the lights on. We can help pay the missionaries, for example. And we have a guy in Nigeria who got beat up apparently by Muslims, I'm not exactly sure the exact story, his phone was stolen, some other stuff, and we support him.

He goes out there and passes out literature, and so every bit of support that we have, you know, a certain percentage goes out to support the missionaries. We have another guy in Turkey, he's got a Turkish website now, and he is finishing up his master's degree, he speaks four languages. And so he'll be doing other languages as well, and he's awesome. We have a guy in Colombia who does Spanish, and we have Niepik dot org, and then we have another guy in Defend de Ofe, that's the name of the site, in Brazil. And he does the same thing, taking the KARM articles and putting them into other languages so that people in other languages all over the world are going and reading these things, and thousands per month are going there. So the support that you give us is not something that you're going to see, oh, hey, look, we have all these great stories.

Well, we can try and get stories, but the thing is, it's just that, well, it's just not a ministry where you get a lot of reward for, at least not here. And so you can know that the support that you give helps the site go out, and KARM alone in the English has had 162 million visitors, 162 million. So there's a lot of visitors that go out there, and we're working on the site all the time.

And so, hey, and then we do radio, so if you like what you hear, and you want to see us keep going, and you want to support even if it's a little, which is fine, all you have to do is go to KARM dot org forward slash donate, and there you go. All right, so let's get back on with Juanita, are you still there? I am. All right, so let's review the question. The phrase, call upon the name of Yahweh, is translated as call upon the name of the Lord, it only is a reference to God Almighty, and includes prayer, and that phrase is used about Jesus. Why would Paul do that if Jesus is not God? Okay, with all love and humility, Matt, I need to preface what I'm going to say, that this is deceptively trying to confuse or divert the conversation away from Romans 10-13.

I only called in, this can be a very simple conversation, is that I called in about Romans 10-13 because last week you threw that on the table as indicating that praying for Jesus. And I'm saying that, and I'm saying that, that the all of 10 is telling us that faith is in the heart, which brings righteousness, but to be saved we need to confess with our mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. So whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, and that's all I want to say, is that this is not referring to praying for Jesus. So the phrase, on Romans 10-13, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord, who's the Lord?

Is it Yahweh or is it Jesus? I believe here it's referring to Jesus Christ and what he did. Okay, so the phrase call upon the name of the Lord, which is equivalent in the Septuagint to call upon the name of Yahweh, is here referred to Jesus, according to you.

The word Lord can refer to a master, it can refer to many things. The phrase, like I do with a lot of people who give me the same answer you do, this is what I do with them, I'll say, the phrase, P-H-R-A-S-E, the phrase call upon the name of the Lord, not the word call, not the word name, not the word Lord by itself. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord, the phrase, I have to say it over and over and over again, and what you've done is you said, well the word Lord means this, of course it does in different contexts, but the phrase only means one thing.

That's what I'm talking about. So the phrase. It means the first couple of words in chapter, in verse 9, if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, okay, whoever shall call upon the name or invoke the name is what it means here. It does not mean we are to pray to Jesus. Then why does the phrase mean praying to God in the Old Testament? Of course it means pray, we're to do everything. We pray to God. Is it not true in Psalm 116? Why do we always end our prayers with, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus? By the authority of. We pray to God, right, we invoke that name, we invoke the name of Jesus, any who invoke the name of Jesus. Juanita.

Yep. Juanita, Juanita, you're not submitting to the word of God. You're rebelling against it. The phrase in the Old Testament always and only refers to God Almighty. The phrase. And you said right here, the phrase is in reference, in Romans 10-13 it's in reference to Jesus.

I agree. The name. It's in reference to Jesus. It's in reference to the name, not to Jesus. Called upon the name of.

The name. Juanita. The name of the Lord. Juanita. Juanita. Call upon the name of the Lord is in the Old Testament, always means call upon Yahweh.

Always. Call upon the name of the Lord. It means to call upon Yahweh. It means to pray to him. I've written a very in-depth article on this.

You can go to my website and you can look up the phrase call upon the name of the Lord out of 1 Corinthians 1-2. I've done a very extensive study on this. This is proof that you are wrong. It's proof also that you don't submit to the word of God. And I can prove it another way as well.

Very simply. Because you deny that Jesus is God in flesh. So are we, we can move on another time. You can give me something else.

Sure I'll give you something else. Right now are we going to acknowledge that verse 13 is referring back to verse 9 and 10. That if we confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness.

We have to have faith. And with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. So do we agree that here calling upon the name means invoking the name of our Lord. Doesn't mean praying to him in this verse.

No. I don't say that. Oh so you're still saying that this verse says we should pray to Jesus. Well the phrase whenever it says that in the Old Testament includes prayer, adoration and worship.

No, no, no. Yes it does. Matt I'm referring to verse 13. Have you studied it? I understand it.

I understand it. It's quoting the Old Testament. What's the verse it's quoting? Joel 2 32.

Look at Joel 2 32. No it refers back to Acts. It refers back to Acts and others. It's a Juanita.

Juanita. It's referring, it's a quote from the Old Testament. It's a quote. Look at verse 11. The scripture says whoever believes in him will not be disappointed. That's a reference from Isaiah 28 16. For there's no distinction between Jew and Greek for the same Lord is Lord over all. Abounding in richness for all who call on him. Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. That's another quote.

That's from Joel 2 32. And it's Yahweh. You need to study. So are you. I need to repent of your false doctrine.

So are you saying you're sticking. Okay. Am I gone? Call back. Call back. Okay. Alright. Hey folks.

We'll be right back after these messages. Oh man. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt slick. All right.

I wouldn't welcome back to the show. Hope you enjoyed that little repartee. Uh, before the break. All right.

Let's get to oops. Yeah. Jamal. Hey Jamal.

Welcome man. You're on the air. Hey buddy slick. Uh, I would ask how you doing back to that last call. Kind of have an idea.

Well, you know, I actually enjoy it. I would have kept going if it wasn't for callers waiting. I would just gradually turn the fire up on her because, uh, there's stuff that she can't answer. And we're almost 10, 13 is a quote from Joel two, two 32, which is about Yahweh.

I mean, and she said it was Jesus. What are you going to do? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I, I would like to go back and forth with our match and they call the radio. He's, you know, he knows this stuff, you know, uh, maybe that could be a conversation off off air, but I thought I'd got grips. Um, I had a question about, and I don't know the script, but I'll have to just quote it.

Um, teacher child in the way, uh, but the board in each and that depart from it. Yeah. Preppers 22 six. Okay. Alright, good.

Thanks. Um, so not a gotcha question. I'm just wondering. So according to that scripture and how it goes, how, what would you say to kids who have been taught about the Lord who, who were younger, but then later on went away from the Lord? How would you, how would you address that? Um, like my daughters, um, we raised them in the ways of the Lord. And, uh, this is a wisdom statement, not a formula for, uh, for absolutes. And that's how you have to understand it.

You train up, you know, and they'll stay if you do a good job. Well, did I not do a good job? Did my wife and I not do a good job? Uh, it's something we wrestle with. And one of our child children's an atheist and other one is, is not, and just kind of whatever.

And the other one claims to be a Christian, but she's not really walking really well right now. And which happens, you know, so we, we trained them up. So what I do is I just say, well, Lord, they're in your hands because he's the one who grants that they have repentance and comes to faith and it's between God and them. We did our job. We certainly failed at some areas. Uh, you know, I, I mean, not say we did everything perfectly, but, um, we did that and we're just trusting that God will bring them, uh, bring them back. That's all. Right. That's all we can do.

Um, and I'm sorry to hear about your daughters, you know, I'll be sure to pray for them as well. Um, so this is a, uh, say a wisdom statement and not a formulaic statement or like a guaranteed way to stay safe. Well, it's like the next verse, you know, the rich rules over the poor and the borrower becomes the lender slave. He who sows iniquity will reap vanity or the, you know, a verse before it, uh, thorns and snares are the way of the perverse. He who guards himself will be far from them.

Train up your child. And the way you should go. And so, uh, you know, according to his way, it was says even when he's old, he'll not depart from it. So there's, we could also interpret it a different way, but the basic idea is, uh, is there, it's a wisdom statement. That's all. Okay. All right.

And a quick follow up, cause I try to pose these questions to, you know, answer questions for non-believers if they ever pose them. Uh, sometimes I do that sometimes it's just for my interpretation. Um, so if somebody were to say, okay, well Jamal proved that it's a wisdom statement and not a formulaic statement, how can I prove that to them? Read the context because Proverbs are wisdom statements. Oh, it's just that that's what Proverbs is. It's poetry. So in Hebrew, there's a poetic style and form. This is what Psalms is.

It's cause it's, it's singing, you know, in written form here. And Proverbs are just wisdom statements. Like you go to Proverbs eight, it talks about wisdom and talks about wisdom being female. You know, she will this, she will that it's, it's not literal. It's wisdom statements. And that's what, you know, train up the child in the way she should go. He's old.

He'll not depart from it. It's a general wisdom statement and that's what it is. So if you do that, things should work out, but they don't always because God's the sovereign King. And we know in the scriptures, there are plenty of people who are raised by godly parents and you know, in the Old Testament, you know, with the Dave and his children, things went off, went badly.

You know, that David raised him in the ways of the Lord. So this is wisdom, general wisdom statements. That's what's going on. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Thanks. You are giving it what you dare say. I don't mean that in a small way, but, uh, you know, it's just a definite young truth network. Well, you know, um, he says, you mentioned the truth network. Um, I always recommend people, uh, let them know, uh, you know, email the truth network and just whatever station you're listening to or from on and the people that you like on the shows that you appreciate, it's good to email them and just say, Hey, I want to thank you for putting these so-and-so on the air. Really appreciate it. I'm so-and-so from, you know, whatever list on the station.

It's very good feedback. Uh, and so if you have, if you like, you know, I'm saying it for everybody, you know, if you like me, email them, if you like, uh, the other shows and stuff, email about them because there's a lot of good teachers on and, uh, I'm surprised that they lowered the standard to have me on because I remember thinking, man, what are you thinking? You know, but, uh, there you go. Yeah. I'm surprised also.

Uh, we got to work on that. Not kidding. I'm kidding. But it's all right, man.

I'm chocolate. Well, that means, that means you got good judgment there. If you're saying you're surprised too, I'd be, I also could mean it's must be pretty bad out there for God's got to lower his standards so much to work with me.

I mean, you know, it's bad out there. No, no, no, no. We, we have high standards like you want, but, uh, I'll, uh, I don't want to hold the line, uh, talk to you later, Mr. Slick and, uh, God bless. God bless you too, man. God bless. All right.

All right. Now let's get to Chris from California. Chris, welcome. You're on the air. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and I appreciate everything on your show. And it's just, it's such a great, great wealth of information and, uh, the website. So thank you for all of your dedication to that. So I don't know if there's a black and white answer to this question. Um, but I've been looking over the last week and different sources and uh, trying to find out when Jesus was in the tomb for three days, who did he rescue and who did he preach to?

Okay. So there's different responses that have been offered four main ones. And I had them all written down in my Bible that I used during seminary lost the Bible.

So I've lost all four of those, but the, there are, the basics of, of it is this, you go to first Peter three 18 for Christ also died once for all the just for the unjust so that he might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit in which he also went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, uh, who once were disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting. So people say, well, okay, so he went and made proclamation. When did he do that? It looks like it was during that three day period because it says he was put to death in the flesh, made alive in the spirit. So it's about that time.

Okay. Now did he preach it to them so they can get saved? It doesn't appear to be the case because Hebrews nine 27 says, was it 26, 27 says it's appointed to meant to die once then judgment. So there's no second chances, uh, for the corner of the scriptures. Furthermore, um, if you go to, um, Luke 16, 19 through 31, it talks about Lazarus and the rich man. And when it's not a parable because there's a proper name and it says they went to this place, you know, once a good place, one of the bad place, they're conscious, they're alive and things like that.

All right. So paradise is the hold, was it, the theory goes was the holding place of the righteous, those who died in faith and they couldn't go to heaven because Christ's blood had not yet been offered. So they were not cleansed ceremonially, all of that.

So they couldn't enter. They were in the, in the paradise, the holding place. Now, having said that, now you go to Ephesians four verse eight. Therefore it says, when he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives and he gave gifts to men. Now this expression he ascended, what does it mean? Except that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is himself also who ascended far above the heavens that he might fill all things.

And then it goes on. So the theory, the basic theory, this is the one I hold to. And I mean, I'm not saying I die in this hill, but it appears to be that what Jesus did when is between the period of his death and resurrection was he went and made proclamation, proclaimed what was going on, preached that gospel to people to inform them, to let them know what's going on. They couldn't repent at that point because it's too late because of Hebrews nine 27. And then it looks like, uh, he went to paradise, proclaimed what was going on, preached to them to told them what was going on and then led them into the heavenlies because his blood had been sacrificed and then went there and then reentered his body later. That's the main theory. Okay.

Very interesting. Is that where, is that where the Catholic church gets the idea of purgatory from? No, they get out of first Timothy 3.15. We've got a break, so hold on. We'll get to you after the break.

We'll talk about purgatory a little bit and I'll show you where they get it from and which is not there, but Hey, hold on. Hey folks, there you go. Last break coming up of the hour. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Chris, are you still there?

Yes, I am still here and anxiously awaiting to continue this competition. Okay. And I was wrong, actually I recorded the wrong verse. It's first Corinthians 3.15. If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, but he himself will be saved. Uh, yet as through fire. So the Catholics will routinely say that this is in reference to purgatory, but it's not in reference to purgatory.

Notice what it says. I'll read a little bit before it so we can get the context. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, strew, straw, each man's work will become evident for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If a man's work, which he has built on it remains, he'll receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he'll suffer loss, but himself will be saved. Get as through fire.

So it's what he's saying. The works aren't what save you but the reward and the loss of reward is what's going on. The purifying fires. Now there's, that doesn't mean literal fire because the theme of purification of fire is found in the new Testament. For example, in second Peter three, 10 through 13 the day of Lord come like a thief, et cetera, new heavens, new earth where they intense heat and fire occurs. Also in first Corinthians four or five, which says, therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord appears who will bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of the hearts. And each man's praise will come from him, will come from God. He's talking about the issue of passing judgment on our works. So the idea here that he's talking about in first Corinthians three 15 is not about earning salvation or going to purgatory.

It's simply an illusion of our works being judged and being what's purified because in fire they understood the dross would come to the surface of metal that was being burned and they would get rid of it. Whatever's good stays and that's what's going on. Okay. Interesting. Fascinating.

It's really helpful. Thank you for, for the clarification on that. As I said, there's so many different, different, um, different approaches on that, like you said. And, um, and I even posed the question to a very dear friend of mine who's a Jehovah's witness just to see what his response was and boy, that was something else. He said, well, Jesus was dead. I said, well, what about when he said that the people on the cross today, you will be with me in paradise. How do you guys reconcile that? So it's just a great way to continue the conversation.

Okay. You know, actually the conversation I had with Juanita beforehand, uh, one of the great, uh, things to witness with Jehovah's witnesses is out of first Corinthians one, two, and I'd recommend you go to read that article. And if you could talk to your Jehovah's witness friend and you could just ask him and go to someone 16 for what is the phrase mean?

Call upon the name of Jehovah and those it will be to pray and say, yeah, that's right. And then the Septuagint, it's the phrases is into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord, which means it's a phrase only used of Yahweh and it's applied to Jesus. And I asked him, why is it applied to Jesus?

And okay. And sometimes it, and when people say they try and, uh, they try and get quicker and slicker than me and they'll say, well, it's because he was given authority or almost, I mean, uh, Matthew 28, 18. So yeah, you want, he's made under the law, Galatians four, four. And so if he has all the authority, then do you go to him? Do you pray to him? Like he says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it.

Do you go to the one who has the authority and then they're stuck. So anyway. Okay. Yeah.

No, very good. Thank you so much. And God bless you and your whole staff and everybody there. I just really appreciate everything you guys do. Praise God. And, uh, we could use your prayers really. Uh, we do need those prayers.

A lot of them. Okay. You got it.

You got it. All right, man. God bless. All right.

Now let's get back to Juanita. Okay. All right.

What do you know? Well, I feel, well, thank you. I feel bad taking up your time when there are other people who have really important questions to answer, you know, but he's waiting.

It's just you and me. No problem. I want you to know, I truly respect your scholarship. I really do. Uh, except on the concept of the Trinity, that's my bailiwick. Okay.

Uh, but your scholarship is not to be downplayed at all. And I don't mean to infer that, um, I don't respect it, but I only call back to, um, to kind of clarify my take on, uh, prayer. And the way I could explain it is I talk with Jesus, but I pray to God like Jesus taught me to do. And that was really, I mean, Jesus clearly told me how to pray. And so, but I talked with Jesus and that was all I wanted to say.

I appreciate your time. I got a question. You talk to him. I mean, you, you, you say, Lord, you say, Jesus, you talk to him. Is that what you're doing?

I talk with Jesus. Yes. Okay. Okay.

So do other people do that as well? I have no idea. Well, I mean, I do know that people all over the world, uh, talk to Jesus. Okay.

So I hope so. Okay. Good.

Then are you saying that Jesus can hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages all at the same time? You asked that question before. I don't think it deserves, you know, an answer to be honest with you, but I did just want to say that, you know, it's that job. It's a good question.

I'm just taking what you're saying and applying it. And if it's not a good question, please show me why it's not a good question to ask something specifically based on what you said. I have no idea what goes on in the eternal realm, which is I believe where Jesus is right now.

I have, I have no clue with him sitting at the right hand of the father, you know, what, what, uh, you know, what, what that's all about. But I do know that Jesus taught me to pray to God. He said it several times and that's the only issue that you and I are having right now. I got that. I got that.

And he do, we should pray to God, the father. That's not an issue. The issue is you said you talk with him. Okay. So then that means that he can hear you.

Well, you're not the only one. And you said, others do it. Well, now you're saying that Jesus can hear millions of prayers, simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages all over the world. That's what you're saying. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, and, and I mean, it doesn't, and I get an answer. I believe he said, I won't leave you comfortless. I will send the Holy spirit, the father, the father will send. And so that's still a small voice inside that, that when you're open to, uh, the spirit of God, uh, we get answers and whether it's coming from Jesus or God, I talk with Jesus and that's all I can say. I just wanted to express that I'm not in a country confrontational, you know, point right now. But okay.

Um, but I'm just saying that what you're saying is implying his deity, since you're saying Jesus now can hear millions of prayers, simultaneously spoken and thought all over the world. That's what you're, I told you, I, if I had to guess, I would say yes, but I don't know. Okay. Well then here's a, here's a letter of verse I think might be interesting for you to examine, you know, over the next day or two. Okay. And maybe I can, great. Great. Okay.

This is a different verse. Okay. We know that God, the father, it could indwell us, right?

Cause I think we've beat the last one to death. Uh, God in, uh, and dwells us. Okay. Indwell. Okay.

He lives in us. Right. Would you agree? Excuse me?

Would you agree? God, the father, God, he, he lives in us, right? And true Christians, right? Uh, what we're told is, I don't know where you're going with that, but, but, but go ahead. What I know is that is that I am one with God through Jesus Christ. Jesus prayed to the father. He said, you and me and I in them that our unity may be complete. Okay. So I know that I am one with God through Jesus Christ. Okay. So I just have to stand on scripture now.

Oh, good. Stand on scripture. Then stand on John 14, 23. Jesus says, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him and we will come to him and make our abode with him. So what Jesus is saying is that what Jesus is saying is that God, the father indwells the believers and that Jesus does too, just like the father does. The holy spirit does too. Well, good.

That's what the whole thing is about. That is that, go ahead. Are you then admitting that Jesus himself indwells millions of people just like God does? Well, again, what scripture says, what Jesus craves is that the father in him and him in me, that I am one with God.

Okay. So now whatever that means, that's John 17. This is John 14. Jesus says he and the father will come and make their abode with you. We know God can indwell people.

Got it. Now Jesus is saying he's doing it the same as God, the father is. How do you explain that if he's not God?

No, no, you're, you're, you're, um, no. Jesus is saying he indwells us. You're saying that he could hear millions of prayers simultaneously. Jesus says he's indwelling people, millions of people.

So how do you explain that? By way of the spirit of God. See Jesus had the fullness of the spirit. Okay.

Okay. Jesus had the fullness of the spirit. And I have hopefully some of the spirit, but I'm not full of the spirit like Jesus was. I have the care of the world and I have other things that district Jesus was in complete communion with God, complete communion.

The father lives in us. Jesus. How is it that Jesus can also live in millions of people like he says he does, like the same way the father does? How come he does that? John 14, 23.

Why does he say that? Because of the indwelling of the spirit. Jesus says he's not going to leave me comfortless. That's John 14, 26, 15, 26. But that's, that's, see, what he says here is that he and the father will live in you.

The father will live in you. Jesus is claiming to indwell people equally with God, the father, John 14, 23. How does he do that if he's not God? By way of the spirit.

It doesn't say that. And it's not that he is God. I mean, Jesus, Jesus, you know, it is so, it is so important that, that, you know, I, your heart should be heavy for, for continuing this concept of the Trinity. You know, how many people have refused salvation that you particularly because of that?

It is just a bad, bad thing. Yeah, you haven't refused the Trinity. We can talk about it and, and we can, we can debate it sometime if you want to do a little discussion, but I'll show you how, what the Trinity has arrived at. And no one's been able to refute it. Now the thing I've asked you is very specific specifically is John 14, 23.

Why is it that Jesus claims to be able to indwell people equally with God, the father, millions of people, obviously. I will, I will, I will, I will meditate and pray on that and I'll call next week. But I hope that we, we've buried, we've buried the, are you still there? Yes. Well, we've got to, we're out of time, but you haven't been able to answer the other question either.

First Corinthians one, two call us on the name of the Lord, but we are out. Call, call back. We'll figure it out. Okay. Okay. There we go. Hey folks, out of time. Sorry about the rush. Talk to you tomorrow. Bye. Another program powered by the truth network.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-05-22 09:02:56 / 2024-05-22 09:21:45 / 19

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime