Matt Slick Live

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Please like, share, and subscribe. We continue our conversation from last week. We had to hang up because of a bad connection, but you probably don't remember, but it was in relation to Matthew 27, 46. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And I had asked you what you thought the effect was on Christ's relationship with the Father at that time. I believe you said you didn't know that the Bible doesn't say, is that correct?

That's right, it doesn't tell us what happened. I had said just before we had to hang up if it would be fair to examine the effect that sin had in general on man's relationship with God and that was just about when we had to hang up. So I wanted to offer, you know, if you remember, I'm sure, I'm not a Trinitarian. I believe that Jesus was a man when he was born and he was a man when he died. The effect of sin in general, I think we can get a lot from the Old Testament, all through the Old Testament starting with the garden, you know, when man had to leave the garden. All through Isaiah, the effect of sin or iniquities were told that God would hide his faith. Isaiah tells us that your sins will separate you from God.

He will not hear your cries. So the effect generally of sin in relationship to God is one of separation. And I propose that that is what Christ was experiencing on the cross because we are told that he experienced everything that we experienced. He experienced all the human, all the human things. Hebrews, well Hebrews says that he in all points experienced, he in all points experienced, he was tempted even, but he was without sin.

Okay, what are you proposing? He was tempted, it doesn't mean he sinned. To say that he experienced everything that we did means he experienced sin, but the Bible says he did not. Yeah, no, you misunderstood what I said.

I maybe didn't make myself clear. He experienced everything that we did. What it says, he in all points, he was tempted but was with without sin. Jesus never sinned.

Well then you said, here's the logic thing. If you say he experienced everything, we experience committing sin. So Jesus did not experience committing sin, so logic says he did not experience everything we did.

So this is what, I think I can clarify it with you. He experienced everything up to the final moment when he became sin for us and in that time God had to hide his faith, God had to separate himself. Jesus experienced everything that we experienced, even separation from God. Well, it's a mistake. Did he experience sexual relations?

No, he wasn't married. You can think what you want. I'm proposing that the effect of sin when he became sin, that he experienced the final emptiness that man feels, he says, why have you experienced sin? You keep saying he experienced everything and I keep showing you he did not. And then you repeat the same thing and I'm showing you he did not.

And so this is a problem. It doesn't sound to me like you're interested in what the facts are, but a goal you want to get to and that's all. If your premises are there to get to that goal, the premises are incorrect, then you can't trust your conclusion. It's just simple logic. So you cannot say he experienced everything we did.

You can't. Jesus' actual words were, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And so in those words, we can only use logic and understand that when he became sin, he must have experienced a forsaking when it's told that God will hide his faith, that we will be separated from God, that he will not hear our cries.

That sounds like being forsaken to me. Now I'm using logic and using Jesus' words. Now the one other thing and we can go on about that.

Let me just say one okay. You're drawing conclusions that aren't necessary. First of all I've told you twice, two or three times, you're making a mistake in your logic.

I show you exactly how instead of agreeing, okay you're right, I need to rephrase that. You don't do that. You just continue on as though you didn't make any mistake. That's a problem because it means you're not admitting your mistake. Now it's not a big deal. You just say, yeah, I should rephrase it differently.

No, that's fine. You can't say he experienced everything we did because he did not. Okay, he did not experience committing sin.

He did not experience relations with a woman because he wasn't married. So there's two areas which he did not. Alright, so what you want to say then is at this issue of the cross. Then what you do is you go to people who are sinners by nature and you say, well they are the ones who experience certain separations. But that doesn't apply to Christ because he was not a sinner by nature. So you don't include that in there either. And so you're having problems here.

Your conclusions aren't to be trusted. So there are only two final points that I would like to make is that we're told that in Romans by one man sin entered into the world. And in verse 15 we're told, but also is the free gift which is by one man, Christ Jesus. And so the final point I wanted to make is Jesus had to be a man or he couldn't have paid the price. Satan would have cried foul. Okay, it had to be a man, a perfect man who had never sinned, who had to be offered and it says by, which is by one man Jesus Christ Christ had to be a man. Wouldn't be God that died. Couldn't be a God man that died.

He wouldn't have satisfied the price. And that's really all that I wanted to say. Yeah, and that's illogical. It's what the Muslims say. The Muslims raise the same argument. And so the Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact your argument is very close to the Jehovah's Witnesses. You need a perfect man to deal with what the Adam did.

So with the door Adam closed, Jesus the man opened. But what you do, you forget the verses where he's directly called God. You just ignore them.

You directly do that. Now let me ask you something. If I were to sin against somebody or you were to sin against an individual, your neighbor, don't you have to go to that neighbor and talk to that neighbor and say please forgive me. You know, that kind of thing, right?

You go to the one who's offended. Right? Is that correct? Oh, you said something you said something where Jesus is called God. Where is Jesus called God? In Hebrews 1a, but at the son he says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. It's a quote from Psalm 45 verse 6. And it's where the father is calling Jesus God, specifically.

You have to be really, really careful in Hebrews 1. And it takes much more than what we can do here. Have you got anything else that we can What do you mean? Wait, wait, wait. I just showed you where he is and you dismiss it.

This is not what you want to do. So look, I'm going to show you what it says. This is verse 3 of Hebrews 1. And he is the radiance of his glory, the exact representation of his nature and upholds all things by the word of his power. When he had made purification of sins he sat down at the right hand of majesty on high, having become as much better than the angels as he has inherited a more excellent name. For to which of the angels did he ever say, You are my son? So the he is God the father. Would you agree? Yes.

Okay. And today I have begotten you and again I'll be a father to him and he shall be a son to me. And when he again brings the firstborn into the world he says, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels, he says, who makes his angels winds and his ministers a flame of fire. But of the son he says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. Did God the father call Jesus God? Many people are called Theos in the Old Testament. I didn't ask that. I said, Did God the father call Jesus God?

And what is your interpretation of God, of the word God? Mighty person? No, why don't you answer the question? Why are you so, look let me tell you something.

Okay. That you are so entrenched in denying who Christ is. You've been given over.

This is a judgment on you. One of the proofs of this is when I read God's word, you don't agree with God's word. Because you're putting God's word under your feet. You're trampling over it.

Because you want to make it fit what you want. You ask me, where does it say he's God? I give you the exact verse. Then you basically dismiss it.

So I had to say, now let's go read it. I then show it to you. Show you where he's called God. I say, well what does the word God mean?

And then what you're doing is your cubiting was called illegitimate totality transfer. The word God has many meanings in different places. So you say, over there it means this.

So we're going to transfer the meaning over to here. But this is what it says. But of the son he says, thy throne, oh God is forever and ever. It's a quote from Psalm 45 verse 6. Which says, your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. That is the mighty God. That is the true and living God.

That's what it is. Look, your throne, oh God, is forever and ever. A scepter of uprightness and a scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God has anointed you with all the oil of joy of the fellows. This is what is quoted. God there is the true and living God and it's applied to Jesus. Now we're going to break.

So see if you can answer me according to the scriptures, according to the context when God the Father says you're the son, you're a throne, oh God tell me, is the Father calling Jesus God according to the Old Testament? Understanding. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Alright everybody, welcome back to the show Juanita. Are you still there? I am.

Alright. Did God the Father call Jesus God? So if you will look up Hebrews 1-8 and look at your inner linear. And this happens a lot, especially, well only only I might say around the Trinity theory. But on to the son. He didn't say it on to the son necessarily. The word he says is added in there. So he didn't really say it on to the son.

We have to be, let me give you another example. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. The context is this. That in Hebrews 1-5 it actually does say he said, a pen in the Greek, for which of the angels did he ever say? And it goes on, and again it says that and when he brings the firstborn of the world he says, that's verse 6, and of the angels he says verse 7. But of the son, what, what, what goes in there? He says or he doesn't say?

What goes in there? It doesn't say Hebrews 1. It's extremely, I don't want to say, you have to be really careful when interpreting Hebrews 1, okay?

And that is something that just can't be, yeah, yeah. Because it's interpreted incorrectly, I believe by many people. And the Trinity yes. I asked you but you haven't answered it. Did the father call Jesus God? You keep asking the question, you keep avoiding it.

Oh he didn't? So when it says the son and the context as he's saying that's the father speaking, your throne oh God is forever and ever. So it's not the father calling Jesus God?

The word the word can be interpreted great person. God said, God said unto this mighty great person and even thy throne and even we have to, Matt, we have to examine the throne. I've wanted to do a word study on the throne because sometimes it's called God's throne and it's wonderfully intricate and we have to be so careful.

You are not being careful. You are trying to make it go away. But of the son, your throne oh God is forever and ever. So when it says, but of the son, and then he says it because that's what you do in Greek, it's fine. Your throne oh God is forever and ever, that's not calling Jesus God. Even though it says of the son, your throne oh God. It's not calling him God? I'll be honest with you, I'm at a little bit of a loss right now because my study on Hebrews 1 was not something I was prepared right now.

I've done a pretty good study on it and it is very interesting. We have to be careful. Who is he? Who is he talking?

Who is he talking about? Hebrews 1 is an extremely, but it's really good once you really, really nail it down and figure it out. I've been doing this since 1980 and dealing with these verses in Hebrews since then. I've had four and a half years of Greek in college and seminary. I've looked at this. I know what the vocative is with the nominative of the alma cron sigma ending.

I know how it works. I go back into the Hebrew and look at that. Even in seminary you ask a seminary professor about this.

What is the right way for the translators to go? We can look at the Septuagint, what it says too. This is what it actually says. Your throne oh God is forever and ever. That's what it says.

I've done a deep, deep study on it. When I ask you does the Father call the Son God, you just say no even though the text says it does. This proves to me and should prove to you and everybody else that you're just not believing God's word. I do, but like I say I'm not prepared to talk about Hebrews 1 right now. I just am not. Yes. Okay, really simple. Are you familiar with the Septuagint?

I am. Okay, so if you go to Psalm 116 verse 4 it says this, then I called upon the name of Yahweh. That's God's name, right? Oh Yahweh I beseech you save my life. So the phrase call upon the name of the Lord or Yahweh, it's not the one word call or the one word name of the one word Yahweh it's the phrase called upon the name of Yahweh. That's what the Hebrew is.

Call upon the name of Yahweh. Oh Yahweh I beseech you save my life. The phrase call upon the name of Yahweh is a prayer to God only, right?

Would you agree? The name of God, yes, yes. The name of God is an extremely, extremely interesting study and you can go to John 17, you know, where Jesus says I protected them with the name which you gave me.

I have, oh gosh, we have to go to, we have to go to John 17. Okay, I'm asking about Psalm 116 4. Psalm 116 4 is what I'm asking you about. Because the phrase, the phrase, the phrase P-H-R-A-S-E, the phrase call upon the name of Yahweh. The phrase means to pray to the living God. And it's addressed to the living God only.

The Septuagint translators guess what they translated it into in the Greek? Called upon the name of Hakurios, the Lord. The phrase in the Hebrew I called upon the name of Yahweh is translated into the Greek call upon the name of the Lord, Hakurios. That's what it is. So the phrase in Greek called upon the name of the Lord is equivalent to call upon the name of Yahweh.

It's always the case no exceptions. Now, when you go to 1 Corinthians 1 verse 2, to the church of God which is at Corinth to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling with all in every place call upon the name of the Lord Jesus. Why would Paul the Apostle use the phrase that's only used of God Almighty, call upon the name of the Lord? Why would he translate the phrase not the word?

When Jesus taught us, you know, teaches how to pray, he said, Jesus said, this is how no, you aren't listening. Let me talk for a second. Did I say phrase?

Yes I did. You're picking one word. Look, I said the phrase.

I've only done this a thousand times with people. And you do exactly what they're doing. You take the one word out and say well the word Lord heard these different things.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the phrase call upon the name of the Lord. That is equivalent to call upon the name of Yahweh.

Why did Paul apply the phrase to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1-2? May I speak? Sure, if you can answer the question. If you're saying that we're supposed to pray to Jesus you are so, so wrong. Jesus taught us how to pray. You interrupted me Matt. You're not answering the question. I asked you a question and you don't answer it.

I was answering the question but you interrupted me. Why does he use the phrase applying it to Jesus? Then you say was to pray to the Father. Ask John Matthew 6 and Luke 11. But you can also go to 1 John 14 14. Jesus has asked me anything in my name and I will do it. He's talking about prayer. And in Acts 7 55-60 Stephen prayed to Jesus. I'm asking you about this.

1 Corinthians 1-2. If you will not interrupt me. After the break. I want to answer you.

Answer about the phrase. Okay. We'll be right back after these messages. I've done this so many times.

I wish people would stop denying Christ. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Alright everybody welcome back to the show. This is Apologetics. Let's get back to Juanita.

Alright Juanita. Thank you. Paul was not telling us now don't interrupt me. Paul was not telling us to pray to Jesus.

That's an error. Jesus told us how to pray in Matthew 6. Okay. He said after this manner pray.

Our Father which art in Heaven. He didn't say anything about praying to him. Okay.

That's all I have to say about that. Okay. I'm not going to go around in circles with you.

You didn't answer the question. I've only done this literally hundreds of times with Psalm 116.4. You go to Zechariah 13.9 and then how it's used of Jesus. The phrase call upon the name of the Lord is a phrase used only of God Almighty. Why does Paul use the same phrase in reference to Jesus?

That's the question. I'm going to have to repeat myself. Paul is not telling us to pray to Jesus.

Jesus taught us how to pray in Matthew 6. Okay. And I'm not going to go around in circles with you on this. We are not to pray to Jesus. Oh. So you can't go to Christ and you can't have fellowship with him can you?

Oh absolutely. What did you say about me denying Christ? How do you have fellowship with someone you don't talk to?

You don't spend any time with? I didn't say not talk to him. I'm talking about praying to him as we would pray to God.

Wait a minute. You talk to Jesus? You talk to Jesus? Absolutely. He is my mediator.

Can he hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken in thought? Oh come on Matt. Come on. Let's stop.

Let's move on to something more edifying. If the question is too difficult for you just say it's too difficult for you. I'm asking you a question. Now can he hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken in thought different languages all over the world simultaneously.

Can he do that? If you can tell me how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Okay. Twice as many as half.

Twice as many as half. Now I answered the question and I gave you a logically valid question. You told me. You said that I was denying Christ.

Can you tell me what you mean by that? You can't answer my difficult questions. I've got other difficult questions I can ask. But you see I've just given you these. Well hold on.

Hold on. I asked you specifically. You say you talk to Jesus. The implication is then he hears you.

Well then others do that. So my question is can he hear millions of prayers simultaneously spoken in thought different languages all over the world. What's your answer? Yes.

Okay. So now you're saying he can do what God does. Now does he have the ability to forgive sins? He has all authority in heaven and earth.

Matthew 28 18. Right? Right? If he has authority it's only because God gave it to him. Good. So he has all authority. All authority in heaven and earth. He hears millions of prayers simultaneously and he forgives sins. So have you ever asked Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins?

No. I acknowledge by faith that he has by what he did on the cross. So you have never gone to Christ.

You've never asked the Lord to forgive you of your sins. Paul uses the phrase that is prayer and adoration to God. He uses the phrase call upon the name of Yahweh which is translated into the Greek call upon the name of the Lord. The phrase is used of Jesus which then implies that the church calls upon his name.

The name of the Lord Jesus Christ. To call upon the name of God is to pray to him. To invoke his name.

To seek him. And it's used of Jesus Christ. And he has all authority in heaven and earth. And you haven't even gone to the one who has the authority to forgive you of your sins. So let me ask you if you've not asked Jesus to forgive you.

Are your sins forgiven? I have to go to the Lord's prayer again that Jesus taught me. Forgive us our trespasses that we forgive those who trespass against us. Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. Forgive us our trespasses.

We're asking God to forgive us our trespasses. What you're doing is called deflecting. You're deflecting. I can tell you where that's found. No I'm not.

Yes you are. Why did Stephen, when he was being stoned, he saw God the Father the glory of God the Father and the Lord Jesus. Who did he pray to? The Father or Jesus? Verse 59 of Acts 7.

The glory The glory. He saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at his right hand, they went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said Lord Jesus receive my spirit. Who did he pray to? It sounds like he was asking, I'm not sure you could call it praying to him but he said Lord Jesus, I'd have to look up that scripture and see really, you know because this is what happens, you know. This is what happens. Like look up 1 Timothy 3.16.

Do this for me. Okay because you've got to be really careful. We're throwing scripture out back and forth and we've got to be really, really careful. 1 Timothy 3.16. What does your translation say? It says he was revealed in the flesh. No what does 1 Timothy 3.16 say?

Read it. It says common confession, great is the mystery of godliness. He who was revealed in the flesh was vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed in the world, taken up in glory. Okay great, great. Your translation does it correct. Some translation, God was manifest in the flesh. And we find this a lot.

There have been subversions around the trinity period. Look, let me tell you something. We had a serious discussion. I will back you into a corner intellectually and scripturally. You don't know the fullness of the gospel.

You don't know the fullness of who God is. I'm asking you basic questions and you're faltering repeatedly. I've given you references. I've shown you what it is and you continue to falter. You think the trinity is a theory and in every debate I've had I've shown people how the doctrine of the trinity has arrived at biblically. I've shown it to them and not a single one has ever refuted it.

Not a single one. And you won't be able to either because you can't refute what the scriptures actually say. You have someone else as your savior. You don't have God as your savior.

You have someone else. It's like you sin against your neighbor on your left and then you go to your neighbor on your right and ask forgiveness for the sin committed against your neighbor on the left. You see, when you offend God you have to go to the one who's offended.

He will forgive you. But now you're talking about going to Jesus who's nothing more than in your mind a man who is not the one sinned against and he is not the one you have to go to. You have to go to God. But you can't because now you've got to go to Christ.

He has all authority. But somehow Jesus is able to take care of your sin when he's only a man. As the Jehovah's Witnesses teach you cannot deal with the verses that I've already raised to you. Jesus is my savior. No he's not. He is not your savior.

No he's not. Jesus is my savior. By faith I accept the free gift that God presented me. When Abraham went up the mountain and Isaac asked, where is the sacrifice? And Abraham said, God will provide the sacrifice. God has provided.

It says God himself will provide or God will provide for himself. You don't even know what that is. God will provide the sacrifice. Jesus Christ is my savior, Matt. You don't even know. Jesus Christ is my savior.

Let me tell you. Your savior is a demonic manifestation. It's a denial of the true Christ. And I've shown it to you in scripture. That the phrase call upon the name of Yahweh is the Greek call upon the name of the Lord. And Paul says call upon the name of the Lord Jesus.

And you deny it. I've shown you in Acts 7 59 where Stephen prayed to Jesus. I've shown you in 1 Corinthians 1 9 have fellowship with the Lord Jesus. Which means you've got to pray to him. And you ignore the verses where he's prayed to and you go to these other verses as though you're trying to set scripture against scripture. You don't have the true and living God.

You don't have him. And maybe. And maybe at another time. Go ahead.

And maybe at another time I can point out to you why I believe that the trinity theory is demonic in its origination and will play out in the end times. Sure. We can try that and I'll tell you what.

You call back tomorrow and I'll have you go to my website and I'll show you a chart and let's see if you can refute what it says. No. I'd rather speak with you. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. On the air I'll say go here. Take a look at it. And I'll say refute it. You won't be able to. We'll talk next Monday.

Was there anything you want me to study while we're apart this week? Call upon the name of the Lord. Call upon the name. Call upon the name of the Lord. The phrase is used of Christ.

Equivalent to God Almighty. There's a break. We've got to go. Okay folks. We'll be right back. This is what I do. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...