Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network Podcast. If you have a question or comment, all you have to do is give me a call at 877-207-2276. And you can just get in line because we have three open lines and we have one caller waiting. Also, if you want to email me, you can do that as well. All you have to do is direct an email to info at karm.org, info at karm.org.

In the subject line, just put in a radio question, radio comment, something like that. And we often get to them, so there you go. All right, let's just jump on the air. Let's get to Juanita from Michigan. Juanita, welcome, you're on the air. Hey there, Matt.

Thank you. I still was a little confused by the Matthew 2746 scripture. My God, why have you forsaken me? And I'm trying to zero down on what exactly you say that there was an effect, even though we don't know the extent and nature of the effect upon Christ in relation to God the Father.

So I was, you know, just thinking he wasn't separate from God, or he wasn't abandoned by God, or God didn't turn away from me. So what do you think was the effect on Christ when he became sin? I don't know. The Bible doesn't tell us, so I can't tell you. It's just as simple as that.

Don't know what happened. But he was quoting Psalm 22 verse 1. Would it be fair to examine what the effect of sin is? The effect of sin on people, on nature. The effect of sin in relation to God, right. Would that be a fair examination if when Jesus became sin, and he wanted to know why he was forsaken, could we maybe logically examine the effect of sin?

Logic would be something that we'd have to reach for, because we don't know how much of what we'd be saying is logical. He's quoting Psalm 22 verse 1, written 1000 B.C., a prophetic word on his crucifixion. So we don't know if it was a forsaken thing in that there's no Trinitarian communion that's broken, but there's a fellowship effect of some sort. When it says he became sin, it doesn't mean his nature became sin, but it means that sin was imputed to him, 1 Peter 2.24.

That's what's going on. Well, I understand that you're saying that his nature was divine, but my question is if we examine the effect of sin in relation to God, would that be a fair way to see what maybe the effect was on Jesus when he became sin? You're breaking up a lot, and I can get most of what you're saying, but I don't know if you can tell, but you are breaking up.

It's like every other syllable is just a pop, and it's hard to understand you. But I know you deny Jesus as God in flesh, right? Sure, yes. It doesn't say that God became a man, it says that his word became flesh. I'm trying to listen to her, and she denies that Jesus is God in flesh, so she's looking for things to justify that assumption. So I'll have a discussion with her, we'll see how it goes.

I would ask that all of you out there would pray, and ask the Lord to open up your heart and your mind, and give me wisdom on what to say and how to say it as well, because we need that truth that comes from God for redemptive work. All right, let's see, the producer will do his switch flipping, and stuff like that he's got to do when a caller comes in, so hopefully the call, he might be talking to her and saying it's still broken up, I don't know, and that's okay too, because he'll just tell her to call back or whatever it is, so he's a good guy. All right, so hey look, and wait for that to work through, so if you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276, Juanita, are you still there? Yeah, I'll just call back another day, Matt, it sounds like we have a bad connection today. Yeah, it's definitely, you're breaking up, in fact now I'm curious to know if it's going to be anybody else who calls, because you're the first caller, so maybe it's just something on our end.

Yeah, I'll call back another day, thank you very much, take care of yourself, bye bye. Yeah, this is one of the things, the deity of Christ, it's one of the things I defend constantly, and so I do a lot of online discussions in Discord, in Clubhouse, an older one I used to do a lot, not so much anymore as PalTalk, sometimes I'll get into Facebook and some other areas, I want to get into more areas where I can just do more discussions. But the deity of Christ is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith, and there are many people who deny that Jesus has two natures, he's both God and man, they deny it. And in so doing, in their denial, they're denying who Christ is, and they're also denying who God is. Now they're going to say they don't do that, they don't deny who Christ really is, they don't understand him properly, I'd say no they don't.

Jesus of course is the word made flesh, God in flesh, and all people who deny that Jesus is God in flesh, I mean openly knowingly deny it, their end is the eternal lake of fire. When I say that, I don't say it with malicious intent or name calling, it's pastoral information informing you. Because the only one who can save us from our sins is God.

What the Jehovah's Witnesses do, what the Christadelphians do, what others do, Unitarians. There's varying degrees of this, but what they'll often do is say well Jesus is a great man, but he's not God in flesh, and he paid for our sins. And I'm going to give an illustration why that doesn't work, but let's say he paid for our sins, and that you trust in what he did, and God has opened the way for you to achieve salvation. So, when it says he opens the way, Adam closed the door, Jesus opened the door, that's kind of a thing, because he's not God in flesh, he's just the equivalent to Adam's failure, his success.

Like I said, not every Unitarian believes this, but there are variations of it, but I'm just giving it a shoot down the middle of it all. So, the only one who can forgive us of our sins is God, and the only one who can undo the damage is God. So, here's the thing, when we break the law of God, it makes us a criminal. We break the law, you're a criminal, okay? There are different degrees of being a criminal, and the holy righteous judge must deal with the criminals. If he lets them go free, then he's not a righteous judge. God must deal with the criminals. But in the economy of God's work, since he is the one who's offended, and he's the lawgiver, he can step into our place and not ignore the law. And then he becomes one of us, our offense is against him, and so he becomes one of us, so that he can do what we can't. An illustration of this kind of a thing is with the lamp analogy, which I read years ago in a little pamphlet, never forgot it.

I've adapted it here and there, but I forgot where I got this from. It was a great analogy. And if my wife and I come over to your house, and you have a lamp that you really like, and I break it, whether on purpose or accident, whatever, it happens. In real life, I'd say, hey, I'm sorry, let me replace it. But this is an illustration about forgiveness and who pays. So I break your lamp, and you say, Matt, I forgive you for breaking a lamp, now pay me $10 for it. Is it true forgiveness when you require payment for that of which you have forgiven?

The answer is no. But that's not what forgiveness is to require payment also. So my wife is sitting there, and you say, Mrs. Slick, Matt broke my lamp, I want you to pay for it. I forgive him, but you pay the debt.

Now, she had nothing to do with breaking the lamp. I broke it, and the person forgave me. So when that person goes to someone else not involved with the offense, like my wife, and says, you need to pay. I forgive him, but you pay. Well, that's not forgiveness. It's not forgiveness to require payment from someone else not involved in the offense.

In fact, it's just, it's wrong. So in true forgiveness, who's left to pay for the replacement of the lamp? Well, the offended party. Because the offended party is the one who forgives. And the offended party is the one who makes things right by forgiving. And since the lamp's got to be replaced, the law's got to be satisfied, the lamp's got to be replaced, then he takes care of it. He says, no, I forgive you.

Don't worry about it. And this is what true forgiveness is, and it's the true nature of love. It works this way with our children as well. We parents know how our kids are.

And how many times, oh man, how many times we bail our kids out in different ways. And it costs us. Because it's what we do, we're loving and we're kind. And we take the burden upon ourselves for their errors and mistakes.

We do that. It's like the nature of God. In Unitarianism, what they're doing is saying that God's offended by your sin, but Jesus will take care of your sin, but he's not God. He's someone else, he's a bystander. He's not the one who committed the offense.

He's not the one involved with it at all. It's like transferring the debt of the lamp to my wife. Man broke it, you pay for it. But that's not right.

That's what they're doing. And it's not right. In true Christianity, the one who's offended is the one who has to pay. Because we can't. We're not capable of it. Because we've offended an infinitely holy God.

And we're finite and sinful. We can't undo the damage against an infinitely holy God. The only one who can is himself. So he does it.

He becomes one of us. And all who trust in him will be saved. And all who deny that he's God in flesh, deny the sufficiency of the atoning work. Deny the love of God. Deny the sacrifice of God. And for that, they'll go to eternal damnation. This is the truth that needs to be proclaimed and understood by those people who deny who Christ is. It's not a pleasant message.

But truth often is not pleasant. Let's get to Ron from Wake Forest, North Carolina. Ron, welcome. You're on the air. We've got a break coming up here pretty quickly. But, oh, there it is.

Right there's the music. So, I'm going to pay attention to my clock better. Hey, Ron, hold on. We'll be right back after these messages, buddy. And we'll get right back to him if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Ron, sorry about that, Ron.

Bad timing there. But now you're back on the air. No problem.

No problem. I've got a quick question. Of course, I believe like you do about women not being pastors. But how do you explain that verse, you know, in I think it's 1 Timothy chapter 2.

I think it's either 13 or 14. You know what Paul says? I do not allow a woman to have authority over a man.

How would you explain that? Yeah, it's 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but it remains quiet.

For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. So, the word quiet there is hessoukiia in the Greek. It does not mean absolute silence like the word sagao does.

You can be more hessoukiia. You can be more quiet. And that's what it is in that context. So, you're in the issue of exercising anything that has authority laden work in the church. Women are to be quiet about that or not. That's not their place. And it's not cultural because it was, Paul ties it into the created order. For it was Adam who was first created, then Eve. So, it is absolutely not cultural.

It is mandatory for the Christian church. Okay. Right. Okay. Yeah, because I taught that and you could hear a pin drop when I got it done, you know. Really? Good.

Where did you teach it at? At church, my pastor asked me to step in one night and I've been going through Timothy. But it's amazing how people got a problem with that scripture I don't understand. Well, that's their problem, not you. So, here's the thing. A lot of churches are moving towards apostasy, adopting women, pastors, elders, and deacons.

They can't behold those offices according to the scriptures. Right. So, how did they receive it? Did they, okay, it was quiet because they were amazed you're actually teaching the truth or they didn't like what you were saying. So, what was it? I really don't know.

You know, this is like you hear a pin drop when I got done, you know. If you need any backup, let me know. Because I believe that this is a really important topic. Go ahead. Yeah, I used some of your information when I was taught that.

But, yeah, it's like people, I don't want the problem. My pastor, he believes the same way I do. But people, you know, one time I preached at a church and it was a Baptist church. And they had women deacons. I said, what?

You know, we were doing the Lord's Supper and it threw me for a loop, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But it's amazing. Yeah, because as a matter of fact, I told my daughter-in-law, a woman's talking to her and I told her that she has no business being a pastor. As a matter of fact, I recommend her to go to your website and look it up.

Yeah. As a matter of fact, I'll just do this again when this comes up. I'll just offer anybody listening. If, you know, you're not just some guy off the street, but you're a pastor or an elder or representative of your group, church, denomination, whatever. Then let's do a formal debate. If you disagree with me, do a formal debate on, does the Bible teach women to be pastors and elders? And that would be the topic. And I've been offering this debate for, I don't know, 20 years, I guess.

I've been doing radio for 21, 22 years. And I've not had a single person accept the challenge. Not one.

I wonder why. Yeah, I remember you talking about it. Yeah. I know that you've probably seen the same thing. Sometimes mostly, I notice, I told them Sunday nights, most times people put their denomination like this in there. They put that text. You know what I mean?

You know, Pentecostals, charismatic sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, there's people who, yeah, you're right.

There are different ones. But as far as that, I'm glad you stuck up for the truth. And don't back down. They need to understand the truth. I would love to be able to do a seminar on why this is so important. I'd like to do a seminar on that. Maybe I'll work something up and do an online seminar by myself, have people sign up and they can, you know, whatever. Maybe I'll do something like that because I talk about it. But what I need, I'm just going to throw this out. I need someone who would be willing to work with Karm, at first on a volunteer basis, whether to get paid or not, because we're, you know, how things are going in the economy.

But they would work to arrange speaking engagements and or seminars that I could do. We need something like that. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yeah. That's right.

So I can do stuff like this, go to someplace and teach the truth. Yeah. All right. All right, thank you, man. Hope you get to fill in. Hey, thanks a lot.

You know, little here, little there. Yeah. All right. Okay. God bless, man. Thanks.

All right. We have one open line, I mean, three open lines, excuse me, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get on the air with Julie from Utah. Julie, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi. I'm reading a book by Barbara R. Her last name is spelled D-U-G-U-I-D, D-G-R-O-D. Is she Christian? I don't know.

I've never heard of her before. Okay, because the book is called Extravagant Grace. Yes, that's what it's called.

And it seems like it's saying that we're supposed to be going ahead and sinning and that we were born to sin and it's unnatural for us not to sin. It's just kind of a weird book and I thought maybe if you ever heard of her. Really? Yeah.

Really? It's kind of a different book. I've never read anything like it. She's a Presbyterian. I don't know if that means anything, but. Well, some Presbyterians are good, some are bad. So I'm Presbyterian in my theology, but, you know, in a good group.

Never heard of her then. Could you? I'll just have to.

Well, I'll tell you what. What I often do is I'll go through a book. If you're reading it, if you want, you could say on this page, you know, or here's a sentence.

I don't even need the page because what I would do is I download the book on Kindle and then I just open up and if you were to say, she said this, here's four words, you know, then I could just put those four words in and search for the entire book. I can find it and I can read the context and see what's going on. And if people want to do that kind of thing, it's extremely helpful.

I can go right to where the issues are, read the context and say, yep, this is a problem or nah, not really, whatever. Okay, good. I'll do book reviews every now and then. Thank you. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Okay.

God bless. Have a good day. You too. Thanks. Bye.

All right. Now, since she's from Utah, I'm going to have to call her coming in. I'm going to go to my calendar and let you guys know down there in Utah that I'm going to be down there on the last, let's see if I remember March, April, May. There we go. That's on the 31st of May, the last day of May, which would be a Friday. I'll be involved with a debate in Ogden, Utah at Weber State University.

Now, the timing's not very good. It's between 4 and 6 p.m. I'm going to be debating a Mormon and I'll get more information out of this. I'm probably going to go down the day before, spend the night down there, and then relax, get to the place or stuff like that. So, I'll probably do that, you know. And if there's a church down there that Thursday night wants me to come and speak or something like that, I can get down there before that and whatever.

So, we'll be putting the information out there and the debate will be with a Mormon gentleman and does the Bible teach salvation by faith or works. So, I'll be working on that and there you go. I'll just let you know. All right.

So, you can plan for that if you want. We've got a break coming up. We have Cherry from Utah and she's waiting right there. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. For those of you who are listening a little bit late, I was out Thursday and Friday with a bad head cold.

I'm still getting over it, but I'm able to do the radio today. So, you can tell my voice is a little bit extra, a little bit raspy, a little bit deeper than normal. My wife usually likes it though when I do that.

Yeah, she likes that. All right. Let's get back on here with Cherry from Utah. Cherry, welcome. You're on here. Yes.

Thank you for picking my phone. There's one question I was talking about earlier. You talk about the woman cannot be an elder and a pastor. That's it. I totally understand. Right. However, I'm sure of the deacons here in the church, pretty much sure of, you know, for the members. Would that be okay things? No.

I've been in this position for three years already. Not pastor, not elder, just deacons. What do you think about that? No, deacons are not for women either. Okay, let me read the scriptures. Okay. Yeah. Is there any, in Bibleism you can't? No. Let me read the scriptures here about this. Okay. 1 Timothy 3, 8.

I'll start reading. It says deacons likewise must be men of dignity, not double tongued or addicted to much wine or fond of sordid gain, but holy to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. These men must also be first tested. Then let them serve as deacons if they are beyond reproach. Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things. Deacons must be husbands of one wife and good managers of their children and their households for those who have served well as deacons, obtain for themselves a high standard and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

So women can't meet that. It's just that simple. So 1 Timothy chapter 8. 3.

1 Timothy 3, 8 through 13. Mm-hmm. 8 through 13. 12, actually. Yeah, but 13 is the whole thing, but yeah, okay. So unfortunately. Okay. Now, does that mean women can't be used in church?

Well, no, it doesn't. They can do other things. They're just not to be in that office. The reason is because it's an authoritative office because it's the administration of the work of God through the people, and this is for men. So if they want to serve in the church, just let them be, you know, call them something other than a deacon.

Right. However, I also got seen, yeah, also God said we're a servant. We'll never be above anybody, you know. I mean, we're too humble to serve. We should not be any position. We serve with God and also show the people, like Jesus Christ did.

You know, he even washes the disciples' feet. I think the reviews of the position think they're in charge. I think that's wrong. You know, I take the position I don't think I want to be in charge of anybody. However, I'm definitely going to review with our pastors if there's something the Bible says is not good for the woman to do it. Of course, I take the position somebody wants to serve. I don't think I want to be in charge of a man or other.

So I don't feel anybody above to, yeah. Appreciate it for you. You know, keep my call point on that scripture. I can dive in a little more and talk to our church members as well. Thank you. Yeah. And where are you in Utah, if I can ask? Just what city?

In Salt Lake City. I'm not normal. We're a Christian church, yeah. We're basically biblical principles. It's very different from pretty much based on the Bible, you know, study Old Testament, New Testament, nothing more than the Bible. I think we formally believe nothing more, nothing less than what the Bible teaches us. So, yeah.

Well, if that's the case, then they ought to not have women as deacons because the requirements for the deacons are similar to the requirements for elders. Husband of one wife. Okay. And how do you just have that as it? But, you know, I want to, well, I'll talk about it when you hang up. But, yeah, that's what it says, okay?

That's what it says? Sure. All right. And can you, I heard earlier you talked about you were going to come to Utah to do some debate with the Mormons. Can you tell me the information, when's that? Yes, it's going to be on the last day of this month, May. This will be the last day, which is Friday.

Okay, May. It'll be in Ogden. Unless something happens and the schedules change. But it's going to be at Weber State University that begins at 4 p.m. Unfortunately, that's the time we were able to get with that facility. I wanted later, but, you know, that's just how it is.

And from 4 to 6. So if people get off work earlier, they want to come down and listen. The way we can find the information, do you post it online? We can malware the location. Yes.

Weber State is a big university. Yes. What I'm going to do is, let's see, com.org, I'm going to put up, let's see, I'll put up a calendar event on that and put a link to it on a page so that you can see the map and where to go. Because I don't even know where to go yet. I'll have to get more information.

And we'll figure it out because it's three or four weeks off. On your website? I'm sorry, what? Is it on your website?

Not yet. Okay. I'll have to put it up there. So I've just kind of been sick for about the better part of a week, so I haven't done much of anything.

I'm trying to get back into it, so I need to catch up on that, among other things. All right. Okay. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate your always great teachings. I really appreciate it for the, you know, use the knowledge of the Bible to teach and the people reach out. Thank you. Well, praise God.

You know, praise God. All right. Yeah. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. Well, we have nobody waiting right now.

If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. All right. Why is this such an important thing about the men leading in the office? Is it just a cultural thing and a patriarchy and white privilege and all this kind of idiocy that people like to throw at things they don't like?

No, it's not any of those. It's based in the revelation of God and how things are in the church. When Paul the Apostle said that whether or not to be pastors, assuming not to be an authority over men, because Adam was first created, that's the beginning of it because it relates to the nature of God. So women can't fit that position because it's not what they're created for. Women were created to be helpmates of their husbands.

Now, I could just see me running for office in five years and someone finds this quote. Women are to be helpmates of their husbands. Do you still hold that, Mr. Slick?

Yes, I do. Because the left and the world hates the offices of male and female and husband and wife. It does not mean that the wife is inferior to the men at all.

They're equal. It just means they have different responsibilities and different callings. And biblically speaking, from the context of God's revelation found in Scripture, the offices that contain authority in the church are to be male-led, not female-led. Now, yes, there are certainly abuses and there would be abuses by anybody who gets into authority positions. Not everybody is going to be abusive, but it does happen.

We know this. So women would not be exempt from such failures as the same as men. So one of the things that concerns me, however, is that I want women to know that they can be used in the church. They don't need a title.

They don't need authority to do these things. Now, I've been to churches where the ladies, I was at a conference last weekend, the ladies were doing great. And hold on a sec.

I had a cough there. And they got eats and things to eat for people and coffee and stuff. And I love that kind of thing that they do. Not that only women can do it. Men could certainly do it as well. But it's such a blessing to be able to go to a place where things run smoothly because of the women.

It's an awesome thing. The reward will be with the Lord Jesus in their service. I remember once when I was in the Philippines and all the men were doing the conference. And the women, wives I guess, had gathered and they were serving the men, serving the pastors.

And I mean really serving them. And I was watching. I still remember this.

I've told this before on the radio. I was watching how selfless they were serving and just being there and making things go smoothly. And the men were able to study and listen to the conference and take what they learned back to their churches. The women shared in the glory in that and the reward because they were helping their husbands and the pastors be able to be less distracted.

And I remember going back into the room where all the women were because they were finally eating after everybody else had eaten. And I walk in there and they saw me and they stood up. Do you need something?

Do you need something? I said, no, no, no. And they said, I just want to thank you. And I got the impression they hadn't been thanked that often.

But I really thank them for making everything so good. This is one of the privileges that women can do. They have that ability.

They don't need a title for that. But they can see the need and they can humbly serve and bring great glory to the Lord in that. And their reward is not before people, but before God.

And in heaven, the crowns will be that much bigger. And this is something that I think we need to understand. Men are the one who had the responsibility in the church to do what is proper. And the church isn't doing too well, is it?

Not that men are to blame, but they're kind of to blame because the burden falls upon them. And so God's going to judge them, judge us. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show.

As is often the case, I'll pay attention to the text and in the chat rooms, we're having a good time. We're talking about the issue of women's leadership and things like that. And sometimes the people get ridiculous and they're a good ridiculous, fun ridiculous. And someone wrote a new book idea, Slick Reform Sandwich Makers of the Modern Era. So that started it off. And so I wrote, yes, and we need to have sandwich-making Olympics where women are given certain condiments, breads and meats, and they have to impress the judges.

I want to be a judge. And I wrote, yeah, I think the women would love to participate in this. Right, ladies? And so we're getting a few chuckles from some of the ladies in there. And then the winners, I wrote, move up to the Grilled Sandwich Olympics.

So I'm running out of time because the music was going. Laura said, hey, she's in for the grilling Olympics. That's good.

And I wrote, the award is not gold medal, but sauce lids. So I think we're onto something here. I think it'd be fun. So we're having fun in the chat there. All right, all right. Let's get to Norman from North Carolina.

Norman, welcome. You're on the air. How are you doing, Matt? Oh, hanging in there, just having fun online and answering questions. We're trying to.

Yeah. So, yeah, you've probably answered this before, but your position on women in the pulpit or, I should say, in the church leadership is pretty clear and, I think, rock solid. But what about on the radio? There's a lot of these women that have radio munitions kind of like yours. Now, they're not necessarily calling themselves, you know, Bible answer men or Bible answer women in that case, but they're out there. What do you think?

Have you already answered this? I just wanted to get your take on that. Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. So here I am on the radio.

I'm in my third decade now. So I'm not a minister of a church. I'm not an elder in a church doing this. I'm not a deacon in a church doing this. I'm not a bishop in a church doing this.

I'm just some guy whose last name is Slick, which, you know, I'm not suspicion right there. And so can a woman do that? Absolutely. I don't see why a woman couldn't get on the radio and do some Bible teaching. A lot of women have a lot of great experience, a lot of knowledge and can see things that we men sometimes can't. The Lord can certainly anoint them. As long as they're not in a church context in authority over men. I'm not in authority over anybody here. You know, when someone calls me up, I can hang up on them. That's my authority. I don't like you.

You're gone. And that's all. So it's not a formal teaching thing in a church context, because that's what Paul says, that he's giving instruction on how we're to behave in the household of God, which is the church, the pillar and foundation of the truth. So I believe that because of that, it's really kind of focusing on that issue.

And so I don't have any problem with women being on the radio and certainly don't have them teaching in seminaries and writing books and other things, but I think they can be quite gifted at it. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Hey, I just wanted to say, some of these people that call you back, even after you hang up on them, I'm amazed. I sometimes wonder, are these plants that you have out in the crowd, because they keep calling back, you know, sometimes you knock them down and they keep coming back like that, when either way, I'm amazed. Absolutely amazed.

Well, now she might be listening. I guess it's your personality. Yeah.

I guess it's your personality. Yeah. Well, you know, there are people out there who have different personalities as well, who believe that they're correct and want to be vindicated and to teach, and so that I'm a public figure and public opportunity and they want to challenge me, and that's fine. I would do the same thing. I'd call up some radio guy or girl and say, hey, wait a minute, I don't agree with that, and that's fine. And so they often have, in my opinion, rationalizations for things and refuse to believe. So when someone denies that Jesus is God in flesh, they're under demonic influence, and so they're not going to receive the truth, and they're going to continue to call back. And this is part of the thing that goes on. And then there's people who I've encountered so many people in Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism who are idolatrous in that they put, boy, excuse me, head cold stuff. They're putting the church in place of Christ and their loyalties to the church, and so when I attack their church, like when I say, you know, the Roman Catholic Church is apostate, it's a false church because I believe it's true, or the Eastern Orthodox Church will also lead you to damnation, just like the Roman Catholic Church. People get offended by that, and they want to call me up to battle. Yeah, I know. And, well, I don't say just to be offensive. I say it because I believe it's true.

I really do. And they're going to be convinced that I'm wrong, and they want to have more and more opportunities to do that because they might know some of my responses and say, well, here's a response to that, then we go back and forth. That's what debates are. So people are just that way, and I'm kind of shocked too sometimes that they'll call back for round four, round five, round six. I'm like, when are you going to pick up on this? You know, they're going well for you. Oh, yeah, it is amazing. But sometimes, hey, if they keep calling back, the door is open, right?

I mean, in my experience, when I stand up for the truth, usually that's it, the door shuts and they don't want to talk to me anymore, including people that are supposedly Christians. Yeah. That's it. I mean, it's gone.

They don't want to talk to me anymore, so I don't know. So good for you. Keep up the good work and join the show. Well, good. I'm glad you do. So God bless, man. God bless.

Talk to you soon. Thanks. Bye.

All right. All right, now let's get to Ryan from Utah. Hey, Ryan, welcome.

You're on the air. Hello. How are you? Well, hanging in there, just getting overhead cold. Other than that, I'm fine. What do you got, buddy? Great.

Hey, question for you, Matt. My wife is divorcing me. We've been married for 14 years. There was no infidelity. It was just she wants to call it irreconcilable differences. But I've stuck in it for three years trying to make this marriage work. I'm not perfect.

I have definitely held my resentments for my wife. But my question is, I was approached by a lady over the weekend that explained to me that I cannot be remarried. And I thought that I had heard that in the past. And so I did look some of those scriptures up.

And I was looking for some clarification because it looked to me like I would have to wait until my wife is remarried. Well, let me help you out here. And so let me ask some questions, though. Is she claiming to be a Christian? Yes. Okay. Is she going to church? Yes. Okay.

What church is it? It's been counseled by her women's group to leave me. Okay. Normally with something like this, if a group of women counsel her to leave you, it's often because you're abusive. The man is abusive or something like that.

So I'd have to ask the question, you know, is that part of it? He says I'm abusive. I have held resentments for my wife for, you know, using intimate things as a weapon. I think that they get one side of the story. I think we've done a good job at abusing each other.

All right. Without going into too many details because, you know, this isn't a soap opera here, but if you're both Christians, then the marriage needs to be examined by the elders. The elders are the ones who need to counsel and not a group of women or a group of guys that you need to go to the elders in her church, your church, same church, different churches, whatever it is.

Hopefully it's a good church and such. There's only two grounds for divorce in the Bible. One is adultery and the other is abandonment.

So this is what Jesus says in Matthew 19, nine. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, the word there is porneia. So all kinds of sexual immorality, okay. Marries another woman, commits adultery. In other words, if she, if hypothetically, your wife was committing adultery, not saying she is, but you know, a man and a wife and the wife is committing adultery. The man is free to divorce her, but not obligated to.

And it works vice versa. So we'll look at divorce her husband if he's committing adultery and she's then free and she's free to remarry. And the spouse, the offended spouse is free to remarry because the other person broke the covenant and the remaining spouse was faithful to the covenant. The other one is abandonment. If an unbelieving one leaves, let him leave.

The brother or sister is not under obligation in such cases. God has called us to peace. 1 Corinthians 7.15. So if your wife abandons you, let's say you're working for reconciliation under the eldership of the church, working with her elders, whatever it is, and she refuses repentance and refuses to be reconciled and goes away and the grounds are not biblical here. Then you're free to remarry because you're not under obligation anymore. She's broken the covenant. Okay.

Okay. I did ask her to go to Christian counseling and she said that she wouldn't be willing to go to any counselors who don't believe in divorce. I believe in divorce. God believes in divorce. God divorced Israel.

You just have to be for biblical reason. That's all. And that's it. So I've actually recommended one person get divorced once because the situation, I said, yeah, you're free. You're divorced in this one. And I told her that because her husband was unrepentant and I said, you know, at a certain time you got to protect yourself and the children.

Okay. So yes. You know, if here's another thing, if, if a man's beating his wife or vice versa, she's free to abandon him because he's abandoned the covenant of protection. And it's a form of abandonment where he's abandoned her safety and he's inflicting on her. She can, she should get out. And in the old Testament, how they dealt with an abusive husband, it was really simple.

They can't do that today, but I wish they could. What they would do is the brothers and the relatives of the wife would go talk to the husband about there is a physical abuse of his wife and then his wife would come and nurse him back to health. They took care of it.

If you do this again, this is going to happen. Well, I would, uh, I've never touched my wife. I've protected my wife.

I've been a protector. Okay. Then there's the kind of emotional abuse and maybe that she just not, uh, capable and not accusing them to say, I don't know all the details we're doing radio here, but the thing is that it doesn't from what you've said so far, it does not appear as though she's got grounds for divorce. And if that's the case and she continues with it, then you're free to remarry.

Okay. What I'd recommend you do is be in contact with your elders, your pastor, your church, and to keep a record, a record. I would say this all the time to people keep a record of what you have done right and wrong, but the procedures with the dates and who you've talked to. I talked to so-and-so on this date, pastor so-and-so or man on the radio, whatever it is and recommended this and this and this.

And what it is is a document that covers your rear. The reason is because I got to hurry up because we're almost out of time. Not that I want the divorce, but you need to be able to be able to justify why this happened. You were the one who was offended in this, that she didn't have grounds. You worked on this date of reconcile, that date of reconcile with this person to counsel with reconcile. She refused, refused, refused, and all this is there.

So if you ever have to get remarried or ever comes up, you can present this to your pastor and say, here's a situation. And I took care of all the things I could do to make it right. She refused. She abandoned me.

Then you'd be free and that you need to have that kind of a document. It's helpful. Okay, buddy. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. God bless. Yeah, it's a tough topic. And I hope I was able to represent everything he was saying properly and accurately without all the information. It's only one sided, but nevertheless, there you go. And Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on here tomorrow. Hopefully with a little bit of a better voice and a better, uh, you know, God bless another program powered by the truth network.