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March 7, 2024 4:00 am

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March 7, 2024 4:00 am

The Matt Slick Live -Broadcast of 02-26-2024- is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry -CARM-. Matt answers questions on topics like The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues- -You can also email questions to Matt using-, Put -Radio Show Question- in the Subject line- Answers will be discussed in a future show.--MSL- February 26, 2024--Today's Topics Include---Old Testament Law and Self-Defense,--Atheism and Morality,--Is God Obligated to Save Everybody--,--The Water AND The Spirit,--MSL- February 26, 2024


The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Hey, I was off most of last week and I'm back now.

It is, let's see, today's February 26th, 2024. Hope you all had a good time. I worked. Boy, I was busy. So took some time off. Actually, I was supposed to go to a conference and then had to cancel my wife, had some medical issues. And so we just I just stayed off the radio for that rest of the days.

And so I just took care of her and did stuff around here. So there you go. Hey, if you want to watch, watch the show, you can. All you got to do is go to forward slash radio and all the stuff you need right there. But also, also what you can do is go to forward slash Matt Slick live. And guess what?

I don't know if Laura, you know this, but now but now Matt Slick live, both with non Dash with a Dash are both suspended now by YouTube. So I have no idea what's going on. So, yeah, YouTube is just, you know, it's not very objective. And if you say anything about COVID or China, you get in trouble. You know, China's infiltrating us.

The border shouldn't be open. You know, Biden sucks canal water, you know, just stuff like that. You shouldn't shouldn't say stuff like that, but I do.

And so we are broadcasting on rumble. There's actually free speech over there. Isn't that strange? Free speech in America. You have to go someplace else.

People have to design it specifically so that you can have free speech. All right. Well, let's see. Um, I should be picking up. How come it's not picking up there and rumble should be going. Everything's good. It's live unless it messes something up someplace. Um, hmm. It's now live. It's now it's on live now on hyphen life.

That's weird because when I checked it, it wouldn't let me do it. OK, I was wrong. All right. Hey, look, if you want to give me a call. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get to Elijah from Philly. Elijah, welcome you on the air.

Hey, Matt. Uh, some other question. Uh, I, I caught up and go to the last week or a couple weeks ago. But, um, uh, by the same question, but we never got to finish because it was the end of the show. Um, it was about Exodus 22 versus two to three. About, uh, you know, the sun rising light stuff. Uh, I saw that you wrote an article about that.

I did read the article the other day, but, but, but I still have a question though. So like, um, so it's like it was concerning someone trying to, I think still, still your, your donkey or something like that. Right.

Okay. You know, yeah. So, so like, so it's like, how, how will we apply that? Those, those verses in, in like the modern context. So like, so if someone breaks into your house today, um, so like, it's like with the part about it saying that, um, uh, you would be guilty for killing somebody if the sun is up.

So like, so I might bring it to our house today and we, and we, and we shot them while the sun is up. Will we still be guilty about this? No, uh, this was under a theocratic rule and covenant theology in a completely different culture, completely different time.

And so it was the generic rules. So, um, because of your question, I wrote that article, um, and so basically the idea has to do with, uh, you don't have to kill somebody. Uh, if they're coming in at night, you don't know what their, their reason is for coming in, but they're in a daylight. If there's taking an animal, you can't kill them for that. You can try and stop them. You can't kill them. So there's just levels of degrees of theft and punishment and things like that.

So here in America, um, and, uh, different states, you know, like leftist, liberal, wacko California versus Texas or here in Idaho, you know, there's quite a bit of difference as a state's rule. So if someone comes into our house in the middle of the night, uh, I will get my weapon and I will, uh, defend my family. I will not seek to harm anybody, but I will only move in defense and I'll retreat to a certain room.

If they come in a certain room, it's over. Okay. And so the idea is that you want to preserve life as much as possible, but you don't want to go after them and look to harm them and take their life and killing an animal or taking an animal wasn't justification for that, for killing them. Okay.

Right. Um, um, so, so, so, uh, you're trying to find this other verse here because it was this atheist had broke this up and I had a question about it. Um, I think it's somewhere in numbers 11 where numbers 11. Um, yeah, yeah, it's a passage about, about rape. So, uh, the atheist's argument was that, uh, God, God had allowed race in this passage. And so therefore God is evil. Um, I'm trying to find the, exactly. Well, an atheist can't say, um, yeah, when an atheist talks about that and I would like to be careful the R word because there are children often in the cars.

Mom and dad are going home and stuff like that. But, um, when an atheist says, God's immoral, uh, that's just, it's laughable to say that it's absolutely ludicrous. Laughable. I mean, a bunch of atheists, a hundred of them could say that's immorality. That's wrong to do.

I'm going to just say really by what standard you guys are atheist. You don't have a universal standard. All you have is your opinion. You don't like it.

That's okay. You don't like it, but why is it wrong by nature? Are you saying there's an ontological essence to an action that has a moral consequence to it and moral necessity? Where are you getting this from? The atheist have nothing. When they say it's just simply wrong, all they're doing is saying, I don't like it. That's all they're doing. Well, who are they to say is right or wrong? Well, you know, if they, what they're doing is what's called an external critique.

They're saying that their subjective atheistic moral system is better than what is in the Bible. It's called an external critique. I'd say, look, the actual critique works both ways. God exists.

So therefore you guys are going to hell and you're wrong because the Bible says so. That's an external critique on your view. So my view is just as valid as yours in an external critique issue.

What they have to do is go into what's called an internal critique to look and see if there's any inconsistencies within the teaching there. So when they say something like that, usually they bring up the issue of the woman who's been ravished. That's a good word.

Ravished. We'll have to marry the guy and we can talk about that and why that was the case, what was going on. But anyway, that's one of the things. Okay.

So where do you want to take it from here? I think another verse because I'm on the video and I'm, you know, scrolling through, you know, this section, the word brought it up. This verse is out of Deuteronomy 22 verses 23 to 24. And if I remember correctly, I think his argument was that if there's a girl's engaged to a man, another man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring both to the gate of the city. You shall stone them to death.

A girl because she did not cry out in the city of the man because he's violated his neighbor's wife. Okay. Yep. Yes.

So, um, I think, I think his argument was because since the woman, uh, did not, uh, did not cry out, um, she didn't resist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was part of his argument. Yeah, she didn't resist. So what that meant was she was in on it. And so, uh, she's betrothed to somebody else was, was a tantamount to being married, but not quite in our culture engagement is not marriage, but in that culture engagement was a kind of marriage was not consummated, but they were, if they were to break off the engagement, they had to go through a legal process, uh, uh, like divorce and it was, uh, for breaking an engagement.

So it was a very serious issue back then. And again, when the atheist comes and says that this is wrong, I said, by what standard, this is back then. And what they'll do is they'll appeal to modern society.

Well, modern society says this, well, so what you're just saying that this society says ABC and other society says, uh, DEF, which is correct. Because if you're an atheist, you have nothing to stand on. They get on their arrogant high horse and try and pronounce judgment on others. And all I have to do is just get into their little shows and say, well, what's your universal standard by which you make this judgment. They have nothing.

They have nothing. Okay. I just, I just, I just remembered, uh, uh, what he had said. He said that, um, the part, the part where it says that the woman, uh, the woman did not, uh, cry out for help. Uh, he was like, he was like, well, well today, you know, you know, some women who get a ravished, uh, they don't, uh, they don't scream out for help for help because they're, you know, you know, a pair of paralyzing fears. So why would you, you know, you know, hold that against them if they're, they're in such paralyzing fear and don't cry out because they're scared that the person might, you know, uh, you know, uh, slaughtered them or something like that. Well, the, the point here is that resistance or not resistance you compliant or not, you're not just going to arbitrarily, uh, kill her. You're going to ask questions, what's going on.

And the idea you didn't cry out and they're going to ask you, why didn't you cry out? Well, you see, you know, uh, well, there's a problem. And furthermore, furthermore, this is under the Israeli system. Uh, you know, 3000, 4,000 years ago, that's how it was back then there. It was very serious. A woman's virginity and, uh, fidelity was very, very, very serious. Not like it is here where, you know, it's, it's a skank fest and everybody is going around, you know, body, body count and everything.

So this, that's all that from that context back there to different context altogether, marriage was sanctified and the rapist was to be killed as well. Okay. Yeah. Um, um, um, I'm trying to think of the question.

Um, so, um, um, yeah, I'm trying to not have dead air. So I'm, I'm saying that's why I'm interjecting. Yes. Okay.

All right. So, yeah. Um, oh, oh yeah. Yeah. So I've got, I've got a question about, uh, uh, limited atonement. So, okay.

Yeah. So, um, uh, what would you say to somebody who says that, uh, they think that, uh, a limited atonement, uh, portrays God as, as, uh, evil because, because he saves some, but, uh, doesn't save the rest. That means that God is obligated to save everybody and God is obligated to give everybody an equal opportunity. And I would ask them, where is that? Where's that found the Bible?

I think it's in the book of third hamsters. It's just not there. And so they don't realize that God is superior to them. They can't say what God ought to do. They need to shut up and sit down and study God's word.

They need to stop being Christian humanists. What that means is they're judged God's truth and the word by their feelings or experiences in their common sense. They submit the word of God to themselves, and this is foolishness. So what rule in the universe says that God has to offer everybody equally of the gift of salvation. I mean, if it's there, show it to me, show it to me in the Bible.

It's not there. These guys, what they'll do is they, they want to speak for God and the character of God, they want to represent God. I want to ask them to show it to me in scripture.

They can't find it because it's not there. And they only want someone to be saved. Well, then we can go into the Bible. Who wants someone to be saved? Well, then we can go into that, you know, talk doctrine and I can go in and talk about what the all is, different context. Jesus speaks in parables.

So not all will be saved, you know, and there's more to it than just the simplicity of their arguments. We're about as deep as a piece of paper. Hold on, buddy. We got a break. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to stay and get a little more irritated at me, just keep listening. We'll be right back after these messages. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276.

All right, Elijah, you're back on. Yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Can you hear me? Yeah. Gotcha.

Yeah. We was talking about, um, uh, limited atonement. So, um, uh, I like, I like your teachings on a limited atonement.

Uh, you, uh, explain it really well. Um, so, you know, you know, the idea of, of God canceling our debt on the cross. And if you cancel your debt, that means he can't, he can't send you, uh, to hell. So, so, you know, the fact that people do go to hell, uh, that means he didn't, he didn't die for them all. And I think, I think the scripture in Mark, I think it's what, four, 10 through 12, where Jesus said he speaks in parables so that, uh, some, uh, won't, won't, uh, you know, won't believe on him. I think that's a pretty strong verse, even though some people like to, you know, you know, twisted and say, well, well, well, well over here, it says that, you know, God doesn't want you to perish, you know?

Yeah. See what I've discovered, and I'm gonna say this politely, cause you know, really a lot of people just don't study theology. They don't study the Bible very deeply. And the reason they don't is because the pastors aren't teaching them, they're not teaching them how to study very much. See, I want to teach people how to study.

And one of the best things you can do is look for, um, uh, word studies. And for an example, the word all, it says, uh, he wants all to be saved. Okay. What does it mean? And I asked the question, but a lot of times people say, well, that just means everybody. How do you know? Well, cause that's what all means.

How do you know? You know, I've done a study in the word all and, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's used in many different contexts in several different ways. It can mean all in a very limited group. It can be all in a very large group, you know, all of, of, um, the whole world, you know, all of what was, it was taxed. Really everybody in the world?

No, of course not. And so what I try and show people is that what they need to do is study. And don't just assume that a particular verse means whatever you think it means, because it's not necessarily the case.

And what I do is I show them, you know, he wants all men to be saved. Right. Okay. So he wants, I mean, it's every individual, right? Okay.

Let's work with that then. If that's the case, then I always ask him, I say, well, in that case, would God ever speak in such a way that people would not be saved? And they go, well, of course not, because he wants everyone to be saved. Then I take him to Mark four, 10 through 12. I'll say, well, you know, he says he speaks in parables, so they'll not be saved.

What do you do? And what that shows is they haven't studied. They just haven't done their homework.

Someone's told them something someplace. For example, Calvinists are idiots. Calvinists don't believe the word of God.

Calvinists make God into an evil being, all this stupidity that they say. And, you know, I've been defending it for what, 33 years now. And I've talked to thousands of people about it, and I'll tell you, most of them just don't have any idea what it is. You know, I ask them, what's, um, what's, uh, irresistible grace. And they'll say, well, I, you know, it means, uh, you guys are wrong. Well, what is it?

Well, it means, you know, that, that, that you can't resist God's graciousness to you. So that's not what it is. That's what you have to go. Yes, it is. I said, no, it's not. And I've had people tell me that is what it is. I know. I said, look, I have a master's of divinity from a Calvinist seminary.

I know what it is. Well, you're disposing, even what you say, they, you can't, you know, so to speak, win because they're always going to be negative towards you. I tell them, no, no, no, go look it up. I'll tell them, you haven't done your homework because irresistible, irresistible grace deals with the act of God's regenerative work upon you. That grace of regeneration cannot be resisted. And they're surprised. I say, you see, we don't say that God can't resist. I mean, that people can't resist God. Of course they do. What it means is this.

And I tell them, I say, you need to know this. And the people who are telling you about reform theology are misrepresenting it. And it happens all the time in, in, uh, churches because, you know, two men are in the field.

One is taken, one is left. That's the rapture. And I show people, it is not the rapture.

I show it from the context and a hundred percent of the time over years, when I've shown them a hundred percent, every single individual has said, oh my goodness, you're right. It's not about the rapture. When you read the context and rapture occurs, that's just in a different place. And I ask them, why is it that you've been taught that it's a rapture from pastors? And it clearly is not because people generally are not doing the hard work of biblical theology and they don't like the word. No, that just means you're just twisting God's word. No, it doesn't. It means you're examining God's word.

To learn what it actually says, not what you think it means. And that's what needs to happen. So anyway, I can go on, you know, rambling about this kind of a thing, but it's a, it's a problem. All right.

So yeah. Do you have a, uh, do you have an article on that, uh, talking about the, uh, the, the one taken in the one left? Because I've been reading your articles a lot and I just, I just discovered that, that, uh, the iPhone can actually save links to the, to your notes.

So I've been saving several of your articles to my notes on my iPhone. Well, uh, let's see. I'm looking, uh, how come, I guess, uh, why? I thought I had an article on that. Huh?

Maybe I don't. Um, okay. Wow. I have an article, uh, are the good or the wicked taken first when Jesus returns? That blows people away. They think the good are taken first.

I say, nope, the wicked are. And I show them that, um, wow. You know, I thought I had a, uh, okay, here we go.

Here we go. It, I did write on it indirectly. If you go to CARM and look up how to interpret the Bible, I use that as an example of how to interpret the stuff. And I go in there and use that specifically.

It's a bit lengthy, but it talks about how to do, how to interpret scripture, how to go through and do things like that. Okay. Okay. Um, uh, uh, do we have enough time for one more question or sure. One more.

Okay. Um, uh, my question is on the parable of the 10 virgins. Um, so I know, I know I think your stance is that, uh, uh, half of them or what will you, I think you believe that half of them is the church and half are the unbelievers, correct? Um, I'm not really sure what it is. Uh, I haven't done an in depth study on that, uh, compared to 10 virgins, uh, and some get in and some don't because they had the oil and some didn't. The oil represents the Holy Spirit and work of the Holy Spirit upon them, which only can come upon you, uh, if, uh, you're, you're saved. And so this is, uh, this is speaking to covenant Israel. And so they would understand the idea, uh, particularly what related to a wedding feast because that's what it's talking about.

And, um, so I need to do a deeper study on it, but, uh, I haven't really gotten that much into it. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Cause I was going to ask you because, uh, because I saw a video, um, and, and there was explicit, I've seen several videos on it and you know, you know, the videos I've seen there, their interpretations are vastly different to like night and day, but, but, but on one of the videos they said that, uh, the fact that it calls all, all 10 of them virgins, uh, they believe that this is talking to, uh, strictly the church and not unbelievers because it uses the word Virgin and Virgin, I think, uh, represents, uh, uh, the church or something like that. They said, I think. Yeah. That's interesting.

I would like to see that. Um, and then why 10 and uh, what's going on, but Hey, there's a break. We got to go, but I'll, I'll look into it. Okay. Interesting. All right, buddy. All right. Hey folks, we'll be right back after this messages. We'll get to Spencer about baptism and then Ken on atheism.

It's all excited. Interesting. Hey, we'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt slick. Welcome back to the show.

Hope you're enjoying it. People want to talk about stuff like that. Let's get to Spencer. Spencer, are you there?

Spencer making noise in the background there. Hello. How are you? Good. Hanging in there. How are you doing? Doing all right.

What do you got? Awesome. Well, my question is, um, I hear there's a debate on whether in a lot of Christian, different Christian religions are not just Christian religion, but different churches of the Christian religion that some argue that you have to be baptized in order to go to heaven. That's your salvation, uh, is not enough that you have to be baptized. Wow. I guess Jesus didn't do enough. It's in Romans where Jesus tells Nicodemus that you have to be, uh, reborn and of water and soul. Water and spirit.

I'm sorry. Yeah. So I guess faith in Christ is not enough, right?

Would that be it? Wouldn't that make sense to say that faith in Jesus is not enough. You've got to do something. You've got to get baptized. That's what you're saying. Yeah.

And then when they, uh, some of the argument is, I mean, cause the thief on the cross was never baptized. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's go into heaven with him. Yeah. Let's do one thing with time here. Let's look at John three. Okay.

So John three. All right. Now it says you'll see born of water and the spirit. Where does it say that the water is baptism?

It doesn't. That's my question. Yeah. It doesn't say that the water is baptism. No, I'm saying who, who is to say that it is baptism?

Yes, that's correct. Cause Jesus did speak in parables. Yes, but this is not a parable. All right. So I just, I'm just showing you one of the questions I'll ask them is what makes you think it's baptism?

I just asked the question. It may, it may not be, but what makes you say it? And they say, well, cause it talks about the water. Well, okay. Let's, let's look at that.

What is the water? And I say, I'm going to give you what I think it is. And I'll tell you, most scholars don't agree with me, but this is what I see. Jesus answered and said, truly, truly, unless you're born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said, well, how can you enter into your mother's womb and be born again?

What? And Jesus then says in verse five, unless you're born of water and the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdoms of God. For that which is born of the flesh is flesh. And that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

What I say is, this is just me. Nicodemus says, enter the womb. And Jesus talks about which is from the flesh is flesh.

And see, Nicodemus says, go back into the womb, be born. He says, you've got to be born of water and the spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and the spirit is spirit. So in verse five, you must be born of the water and the spirit. And then verse six, the flesh and the spirit. And Nicodemus is talking about the flesh. In my opinion, that water is the water of the womb being born when the water breaks.

And most scholars don't agree. They think it's the word. Some say it's baptism.

Let's talk about it. You know, people say, well, it means baptism. Okay, which baptism?

Because the only baptism in place there was John the Baptist's baptism. Did that save them from their sins? No. No. No, it didn't.

Yeah. And so there's lots of questions we could ask. You see, if that baptism saved them, people were baptized in John's baptism and did it save them their sins? And they'd say yes. Well, then they didn't need to get baptized in John's baptism. They didn't need to get baptized in John's baptism. And they'd say yes. Well, then they didn't need to get baptized later in the Trinitarian baptism, did they, after Christ was born and died on the cross, did they? And if they say, well, if they did, oh, well, wait a minute. If they did, then why are you saying they got saved here?

But if you're saying it didn't get saved here, then why are you saying it's necessary? You see? Okay. Yeah, because there's quite a few places in the Bible where, for instance, the thief on the cross, who Jesus said that he would be in paradise with him, was never baptized. Yep. Well, he had the baptism of desire. Oh.

Yeah. They'll always try and find exceptions. And, you know, they'll go to 1 Peter 3.21, and baptism now saves you. They'll say that baptism now saves you. See? Right there.

That's where it is. Baptism saves you. And then I'll often say to them, did you hear that? Hear what? That ripping sound. What do you mean ripping sound? Like a verse being ripped out of its context.

Because I didn't hear you read the whole thing. Because it says, corresponding to that, baptism now saves you. Not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Whoa. Well, that really changes things. Corresponding to that is the Greek word antitoupon.

It's an antitype, what comes before. So corresponding to that, baptism saves you. So let's look at what come before it, the verse. People who were once disobedient when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark in which a few, that is eight persons, were brought safely through the water. So I say, what saved Noah?

What saved him? Was it the water or the ark? It was the ark. Yes, it was the ark and God's word.

Yeah. The ark in which eight persons were brought through the water. Remember, eight people, that's the number of new beginnings, it's really interesting.

Anyone can recall the number eight. But they went into the door and God closed the door when they entered the ark and God had to open it when they came out. And God says, this is a good verse for eternal security too, but he says, what God opens, no man can close with.

Man, God closes, no man can open. They had to wait till God opened that door because it's by God's sovereign decree. So anyway, so the ark corresponding to that, baptism, how does baptism relate to the ark? Because baptism is with water, so therefore it should be through, safely through the water. The waters would save them.

No. Yeah, because the waters would kill the unbelievers. Then why is it that they were brought safely through the water by the ark? Because the water was a means of destruction, of ungodliness, of ungodly people. But what saved them was the ark. And then he says, but not the removal of dirt from the flesh. It's not an issue of the water applied to you. Okay, so yeah, I know this, I've debated it a hundred times, okay?

Hundreds of times actually. All right, I have a whole section on baptism and you can go read it on Karm. Okay, there's a lot there. What is it on Karm?, yep. Where?

Yup. You haven't been to Karm? Thank you so much for your time, man.

You gotta go to Karm, man. I'm new into this, I'm new into this, so I'm making my way, so give me some time. All right, I'll let it slide. Okay, buddy.

Go check out and look up, look at this on baptism. All right, man. Okay, sounds good. Okay, God bless you. You too. All right. Whew, there we go. Hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Let's get to Ken from Salt Lake City. Thanks for waiting. You're on the air. Hey, Matthew, how you doing today? Hanging in there, man. More hanging in there, but I'm hanging in there.

Yeah. I'm here to give you support. I want to encourage people to go to your website, just a wealth of information. I get together with a few of my neighbors on the weekend, and we've been listening to your debate. I know the caller said I was calling about atheism, but it was really about how you ripped those atheists up. It's just amazing.

I'm sharing with you quite a few neighbors. I just want to give you some inspiration because, boy, in this world today, this spiritual battle you're in, you've got to be taking it double what I've taken. We pray for you, Matt, and we really appreciate you. Well, you know, I don't get that kind of comment very often, and I do appreciate it when people show their appreciation. I don't do it for that self-glory, but I do it for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ. But it is nice when people say, hey, thanks, and praise God for that. So, yeah, it's nice, and that's what the site's there for, is to help people just understand, hopefully, understand stuff better. That's the whole idea. So, praise God, man.

Go ahead. I think we lost you. Maybe we lost him.

I think he's driving. Oh, I'll give it a sec. Oh, there's a break. So, hopefully, he'll come back on after the break.

We'll see. So, if you're listening, Ken, we'll just hold on for the break. Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. There's nobody waiting right now.

You can also, if you are interested, you can email me at info at, info at, and just put in the subject line, put in radio comment or radio question. All right. Oh, there's someone calling in, but I was going to say something. When people ask you questions, you know, why would God be so mean? Well, how come God is wrong or he's wrong for doing this? Always get to the bottom of what they're assuming first, because like an atheist will say, well, God was wrong for doing this. Well, get to the bottom. How do you know? How do you know he's wrong?

What's your standard by which you will say he is right or wrong? That's what you have to get into. It's really basic stuff. Let's get on to anonymous, and welcome. You're on the air. Can you hear me okay? Yes, I can. Yes, I can.

So where do you go? Oh, you can't hear me. Okay. Speaker, I can't hear you, so let me know. Okay. Oh, that's all right.

This is an anonymous call. I'm just a little bit of a sense of humor to smooth it out. I'm just so sad.

I'm just, I love the Lord, but I just stay sad, like a melancholy kind of. This world is breaking my heart now. I'm okay, and I'm going to keep on, but I heard about this young lady, how about this illegal took her out.

She was 22 years old. I called the hung up. I called earlier, and I'm just going to talk about that. Man, I'm going to talk about that.

But I just, I know the Bible has already said that we would be seeing this, and don't think these things strange concerning us. But just, I take your breath away, doesn't it, sometimes? You mean the illegals coming in and killing people? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, but I mean, not just that, but that's just like, that's like, come on.

Yeah, it's happening. But not all of them. Yeah, out of our eyes. Yeah, not all of them are like that, of course. Hey, man.

How do you know then? Yeah, this is bad. Yeah, it's bad, and it's going to get worse. I've been telling people this for a long time. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, but I got sober for this.

I heard that years ago. But yeah, it's just, it's not really, that's why I hung up. I thought there's nothing really, just not a question I have, or stating the obvious, you know. I just felt so, I guess, compelled to call back, you know. Well, you mean the sign of the times, how things are bad, and stuff like that. Yeah, talking about old silly songs. Yeah, sign of the times. You know, I teach what's called- I mean, it's right in front of us.

We've already read all this, you know, prophecy. Yep. Yes, that's right, and it's going to get worse.

That's right. I know. Okay. So- Anyway, let me- What, what? No, go ahead.

No, I just- Yes? Is it okay if you pray over the radio? Is it all right if you pray over the radio with your listeners out there? Yeah, I can pray over the radio.

It's not a problem. You mean pray about- Is that okay to do still? Yes. No, just whatever, you know, for strength, for all of us to carry on the whole fast, to stand firm, you know? To not lose hope. Yes.

To stand firm for what we know is the truth. Yes. Maybe that's my prayer right there. Okay, well that's good. I'll tell you what, we have a prayer team, so if people can pray, you can talk to them or contact our prayer team, prayer at, and get on the prayer list, okay? I didn't know you had that. Okay.

Yeah, we do. All right. Hey, God bless. You take care. You too. And try to stay out of trouble, okay?

Yeah, I'm trying. Bye. Okay, bye.

All right, so let's get to Ken against Salt Lake. I guess we lost him. Hey, welcome back on. You're on, buddy. Hey, thanks, Matt.

Boy, I feel sorry for the lady, you know? He also tells us, don't worry. Don't worry. Give your burdens to God at this end. You know, we're all in the end times, but I'm actually using this end times. Everybody's interested in the end times, and Dave Jones out of Royce and Bethel has a brilliant Revelation Bible study. I've turned a lot of people onto it because, you know, they don't want to hear about the Lord and their Savior, but they want to know about end times, and it's fascinating. And I get feedback from them that now they're going, a few people are going back to church, and you know, it's a way to spread the word with the end times because everybody's interested. But I tell them, don't worry.

What is worry? But unbelief. We are not in control, but God is, you know, and that's where I get my comfort.

What do you think about that? Those are words of wisdom, absolutely, yes. We take comfort in God and his provisions, but we also need to prepare for what's coming.

Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, I live with all girls in my house, and I mean, how do you prepare? You know, stock up on food, what?

If you go to Carm, I've published a Preppers list. It's just a basic list of stuff, and it is biblical to prepare, and I spent Saturday, I spent a good portion in the garage cleaning, rearranging, and because I'm going to be gathering more supplies and stuff like that, and we'll have it all secure, and you know, defense systems. Anyway, so the thing is that we need to get ready because with the invasion that's happening from the southern border, that is not just the people who want a better life, but people, but people from different countries who want to destroy America. They're in here too now, and so it would not take much to bring America to its knees.

All you need is a few hundred well-placed individuals with high-powered rifles, and you can bring America to its knees. Yeah. So that's all it takes, and so what I say to people is you better be prepping. You better be getting ready, get some water stored and food stored and, you know, just stuff like that. Don't go crazy. Yeah.

Don't be, you know, seeing the sky is falling, nothing like that. It's just prepare. Yeah. Okay. Yep, there is a lot of truth right there. I've just been so dang busy with work and everything else.

I'm actually going to retire at the end of the summer, have a little bit more time, but you're right, you've got to be ready. I did have a question for you. Sure. What was your take on modern dispensationalism? Well, there are a lot of good, godly people who are Christians who are dispensationalists, and I'm not.

That's not to say that they aren't good people or don't have good reasons for what they believe in, but I'm a covenantalist, and so I believe that God works covenantally because it's based on his character and his word. That's what I believe. So I think dispensationalism is an insufficient means of biblical interpretive foundation.

Let's put it that way. Okay. Well, I kind of feel like a fool. I haven't done any research on it, but I didn't really have any other thing to ask you. In the study of Revelations, I'm not sure if I understand what dispensationalism is.

I mean, we had the seven churches, and they referred to specific times all the way up to the modern church age. Well, that's one of the theories. That's one of the theories. But, you see, what I'm not fond of is when people say, this is what it means, and I say, no, don't say that. Say, this is what you think it means. Here's a possible interpretation.

That's legitimate. Sure. And so I don't like it when some dispensationalists say, this is how it is.

Give me a break, okay? It's not how it works. So what I would say is the book of Revelation is an interesting book, and it's so full of symbols, the way to understand it is to look back at the Old Testament, well, new and Old Testament, but mainly a lot of it is in the Old Testament, for what God has already stated.

There's a reason he said what he says. Think of it as an index. Revelation has an index. Right. Yeah, you can't understand the end time if you don't know the beginning. There's actually over 400 prophecies in the Old Testament with only 21 chapters. That boils down to, you know, I mean, you have to use that Old Testament for reference.

Absolutely. And the Bible, you know, confirms itself. Like you tell people a lot of time it isn't what you think.

You don't have to think. You can use the Bible to confirm itself. Right. Yes, that's right. But there are places where it's tough to understand.

We do need people who have studied it, and there are different views of Revelation that people have, and I think that they're worth studying, and that each person, in this context, each person should be convinced in his own mind of what it is and how to interpret it in certain areas. Right. And more we're all growing and learning, I mean, with the exceptions of people like you that are so far ahead. I mean, they shouldn't be so opinionated in, you know, it's this way or it's that way. They should be open, and they should be able to converse with people.

Otherwise they aren't going to grow, you know, if they get stuck in a raise. So, yeah, I'm 100 percent. I'm a big fan, too, of you. Oh. You know, it's amazing listening to you on these debates. It's just amazing.

You know your stuff, Matthew. Well, what I tell people is when you have mental problems like I do, where you just have to get to the bottom of something and you're autistic, then people think you're really smart after a while because you're so determined and you just happen to learn it. That's all it is.

So I'm no different than anybody else, except maybe a little bit worse. But I will say this. If you want to learn, study. And I have a reason to study all the time, and I am studying all the time. In fact, the last three conversations I've had on the radio here, while I'm talking to you, I literally am cutting and pasting information into an outline prepping for a debate. I mean, I'm just constantly working. What's your next debate?

It's this Friday, and I'll be debating on open theism. Oh, okay. I'm just codifying some stuff that I've got and going through some things and stuff like that. But I'm always working, except for when I quit. I still have a wife. I'm done. You want to watch TV?

And then I don't want to do anything other than just veg. Yeah, you know, so just study. Yeah, well, you know, I do. I'm in the Bible daily. I'm just driven, you know. Oh, there's the reason we've got to go. I used to.

We've got to go. Sorry. I'm sorry about that.

I didn't want to be rude. God bless. No, God bless. You too, man.

God bless. And thanks for calling. Call back again, okay? And thanks for listening. All right. All right, everybody. Okay, thanks. We're out of time. May the Lord bless you. Okay, so back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then.
Whisper: medium.en / 2024-03-06 23:01:52 / 2024-03-06 23:22:24 / 21

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