Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. Hey, hope you had a great weekend. And by God's grace, we'll have some good calls and hopefully get good conversations. So may the Lord bless you and bless them and the callers. And if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

Listen to Matt Slick live. Today is, let's see, December 18th, 2023 for the podcasters. All right.

And for the people who like to listen. So there you go. All right, just checking stuff out.

We have nobody. Let's see, yep, nobody waiting right now. Now, just so you know, I'll be off, no radio. I'll give the dates. We're just going to take Thursday, Friday off, and then Monday, Tuesday off.

So I have a one, two, three, four, five, six days off. And so we'll be on today, full hour today, and also tomorrow and Wednesday. So if you have comments or questions, and you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. All right. If you want, you can also email me. All you have to do is just email me at info at karm.org, info at karm.org. And just put in the comments there. Put radio comments or radio question or something like that, and I can get to them. And since it's so close to Christmas and people are out shopping, it often is the case that we don't get that many calls.

That's OK. Let's get to some emails. Which resources would you recommend to refute the notion of single predestination? Thank God for all that you do. Well, I would go to, let's see, Romans 9 through 23, and also Proverbs 16, 4. Now, single predestination is the view that God only predestines the elect into salvation. Double predestination is that he predestines the non-elect to go to hell. And so it's a debated topic within the Christian faith, because there certainly is evidence that God predestines individuals.

I mean, that's just how it is. And I know people don't like it, because God used a blonde hair, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown, and he wants someone to be saved. And so he wouldn't predestinate people, because that's what they've been taught. And they don't understand biblical theology, sorry they don't.

But so there's that. And we have the verses that seem to suggest that God has ordained certain people for damnation. And those can be found in Romans 9, 22, and 23, which I'll just go ahead and read. Because I'm just saying this is some of the stuff that is used for that reason. And if you want to be dismissive of it, you can. But what does the scripture say?

I'm not saying I affirm or deny either one of those positions. I'm just saying, well, the verse is used. What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory. So these two verses, Romans 9, 22, and 23, are pretty strong in the issue of double predestination. And God predestines some to heaven and some to hell. And then you can go to Proverbs 16, 4. The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil. So there you go. There's some stuff right there for some of the resources. Now, there are comments about this kind of stuff.

Will God ever do that kind of a thing? And Romans 9, people would say, no, it's about nation groups, not individuals. And that doesn't work if you read the context. So let's just say that there are arguments for and against. But I'm just saying those are the verses used.

In fact, I've got another set that might be interesting. For truly, this is, excuse me, Acts 4, 27, 28. For truly, in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, those are individuals, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, those are people groups, to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur. So he predestined people to do bad things. And this is theology. Does it mean that God himself caused it? No, because predestination can be of things as well as people.

God ordains whatsoever shall come to pass. A lot of people don't like this. They just don't like it. They prefer the simplicity of it's all up to you and your free will and all you gotta do is just give somebody the right answers and they will believe the truth. It's just not their free will. That's, sorry, but that's not a very good theological position to hold and it doesn't work biblically. That's another topic too.

So there you go and there's that question right there. All right, let me get rid of that one. Let's get to Catherine from British Columbia. Welcome, Catherine. You're on the air. Well, hello.

Thank you. It's interesting that you're talking about Romans 9 because, well, I'm calling it quite a question about my brother. And my father actually went to theological college. I didn't know this until I was 25 and I became a Christian. Just by hearing that it was 1983 and hearing it, that was the year of the Bible. So I started to read the Bible and I knew it was true. Called my father and mother over and my father, I didn't know that he knew the Bible. I didn't know he'd gone to theological college because he ended up being a teacher. And he destroyed my whole, like he just pulled the rug out from under my feet using Romans 9 and saying that he was just a vessel created for destruction. And I also used Numbers 31 saying, you know, God is a pimp and a murderer or something.

I don't know, he was going on about this. Anyway, yeah, he was, Romans 9 was what destroyed his faith, I believe. And now my brother, so this is my question. My brother, I thought, was a Christian. And he asked me if I would go with him to do a course in miracles.

And I was like, what is this? And he said, oh, it's about Jesus and the Holy Spirit and God and everything. And so I looked up a book about somebody who had believed in it and then came out of it and believed in Jesus. And I sent some screenshots of that to him and I said, can you confirm this is what you believe? And he said, yes. And I thought to myself privately, if you can confirm that and you actually agree with it, then there's no way, because it's so clear that it was against Christianity.

It was just so clear. So I don't know how to, I don't know if I should get involved. He wants me to go through the course with him. Don't do it. And I don't know. No, it's a cult. Yeah, because I don't want to get sucked into that stuff. It's a cult. It's a cult. So I don't know how to handle it. I don't know, I just don't know what to say to him.

Like, I don't know how to. OK, well, the course in miracles was delivered by spirit contacts from the occult through individuals who then wrote it down. OK, so it's an occultic, ultimately satanic theological perspective. It's religion.

That's really bad. It's new-agey-ish with seances, with contact with the dead. It's demonic. So don't have anything to do with it. Stay away from it.

You just refuse. And you know, the thing is, it's like conversations with God in a way, and my father. That's bad, too. I didn't even know this. My brother told me that my father was the head of the BC chapter of Conversations with God, which also blew me away. Because of course, my dad knows I'm a Christian.

He's not going to tell me that. So is there a family thing where, like, you just, is it a generational, is there some generational curse or spirit that would get my brother involved in the same kind of thing? Yes and no. There can be generational curses and spirits attached to families, but it could also be because they're teaching false things, and the children learn false things. So yeah, the course in miracles is bad, and the conversations with God is bad.

OK? So and there's a lot of false stuff out there. There's a lot of false doctrines out there. And in order to beat this, you just know that God's a trinity. Jesus Christ is God in flesh. He's both God and man. He died on the cross, rose from the dead in the same body. He died, and he's the only way to salvation. And that we're saved by the grace of God through faith alone and Christ alone, and not with any works or any ceremonies, including baptism or communion, that we're justified by faith. If you just believe all that, and then you get that memorized, that's all. Everything else, if it doesn't fit any aspect of that, is false. It's just that simple.

That seems so clear to me, but he's getting into this trying to get rid of his ego or something. Yeah, it's just all cold stuff. It's Buddhism, and Confucianism, and varying forms of Eastern mysticism, where you want to come in contact with the divine consciousness, which is either yourself or God and the universe, or one and the same thing. And then you want to contact this with your inner divine self. Or if you're not an inner divine self, depending which religious system it is, you recite prayers and or words, and or you use objects and crystals and things like this in order to increase the communication and frequency development and harmony with things out there, et cetera, et cetera. It's the same kind of stuff, and there's just variations of it. So your relatives there are in the occult, and they're being very, very deceived by demonic forces.

Yeah. OK, I guess I'll just go in there, and we're going to be doing a Zoom call, and I guess I'll just tell him basically what you said. I'll write it all down, and I'll say this is what it is and see what he says. Just say you're in contact with demonic forces, and you're being deceived, and I want nothing to do with it. Tell him you're in contact with demonic forces.

You are deceived by demonic forces. Jesus Christ rose from the dead after three days. Nobody in your group has done that, and that proves that what Jesus says is right.

And he says, no one comes to the Father but by me. So you have to go, oh, we believe in Jesus? In the course of miracles, we believe in Jesus?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jesus says the ethereal presence and incarnation of this or that. It's just, yeah, don't trust what he has to say about course of miracles and non-Christian calls. Yeah, he actually told me that he was a Christian. He was reading his Bible, and he actually told me that at first he was a bit afraid, because it says in the Bible that there are many false Christs saying, I'm here and I'm there. And so he was a little bit worried about getting into it. But then when he explored it and he found, oh, it's really not that bad, you know what I mean? So he got sucked into it slowly, and that's kind of why I don't want to, yeah, go into it with him. But gee, I care about him. I don't want him, I want to, I don't want to blow it.

I want him to come out of it, but I don't know how to do it. You can't, OK? I can tell from what you're saying, you're not really grounded. You're not really sure about a lot of things. My advice to you is stay as far away from that as you can. You get grounded in the Christian faith.

You understand what the Christian faith is, and you pray for his salvation. I have to also ask or tell you that if you do that, there's the possibility that your life might get a little bit uncomfortable because you're praying against demonic forces, and they won't like that. Oh, yeah, I've rebuked those forces. I've come against those.

No, no, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. People do that. They rebuke forces. Well, hold on. Don't address and don't pray to demonic forces and rebuke them. Don't do that. Oh, OK. OK, we've got to break. So let me explain why that's bad. And a lot of people do it.

A lot of people in Christianity pray to the devil as they rebuke them, and that's not good. So hold on, and we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, if the producer will reactivate Catherine and get her on here. And I'm waiting. There we go. Let's get to Catherine. OK, you still there?

Oh, yeah, still here. All right, so. Yeah, I never heard that about not rebuking.

Everybody's always trying to rebuke them. No, no, no, I didn't say that. No, I said.

So I started to do it. No, I said don't pray to demonic forces. You can rebuke them by praying to Jesus, asking Jesus to deal with them and Jesus to rebuke them.

You can do it that way. Don't pray to demonic forces. Don't pray to the devil. Don't do that. Well, what about not praying to them, but speaking to them?

Is there a difference? Don't. I rebuke you, Satan. You're praying to them. By doing that, that's a prayer.

Oh, I did not know that. Don't do that. Don't pray to demonic forces. Don't speak to them. If they're in front of you, manifested, that's different. But don't pray to them. That's praying to them. And so many Christians are taught that by ill-informed, ignorant ministers in the pulpit. You know, you can abuse them. You talk to the devil.

You just tell him. No, never does it say that in the Bible. Never.

Too many people just don't believe the Bible, OK? So if you want to rebuke the enemy, what you do is you say, Lord Jesus, I come before you. There is a problem here, and you list it out. And he already knows, but you do that. And you say, Lord, would you please rebuke the enemy?

Would you please stop him from whatever it is? That's what you do. Oh, OK, good. OK?

I'll do that. So Michael the archangel was in direct contact with the enemy. And he was talking to the devil.

He said, the Lord rebuke you. OK? So that's what you got to do, all right? You don't pray to demonic forces. Don't address them.

You talk to Jesus. OK? All right. OK, well, good. OK. All right, thanks very much. I really appreciate it. Bye-bye. You're welcome very much. God bless. All right. Hey, we have three open lines if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276, Prashant. Hey, buddy. Hey, man, this your first time calling?

No, I think it might be my second or third time. But it's been too long, Matt. Hope you're doing well, brother. I wanted to ask you a question regarding Tucker Carlson, who had also spoken to David Gruff recently. He launched his own Twitter show. Interviewed who? He launched his own on Twitter, Tucker Carlson. I know, interviewed who? David Gruff some time ago. David Gruff also went through the congressional testimony where he's, at least in this past year, has been the highest profile government agent that has come to the forefront with respect to the UFO issue.

And this is from five days ago. And Tucker Carlson says that there are things that I have been told now that are so dark that I can't even talk to my wife about them. And that there's an essential spiritual component to this whole UFO phenomenon.

So I just wanted to get your thoughts on this matter. I haven't heard the interview, but I'm going to have to listen to it. So here's the- I can hear the link in the room in Clubhouse.

Sure, it looks fine. Absolutely worth a listen. But the whole idea behind now this is becoming so mainstream that there's an essential spiritual component to this UFO phenomenon. That's what I wanted to take your brain on. Yes, there is.

Now, this is just a generic overview. But life can't form by chance any place in the universe. Mathematically, it does not work. It's impossible. It exceeds the universal probability bound by an exponential of the thousands.

It's just not going to happen. So what are these things? Well, they're definitely spiritual. If you go to khouse.org, the letter K, the word house, quininiahouse.org, and Chuck Missler has got some research with others on the spiritual aspect of the UFOs. And a lot of people don't know that they teach theology being that we're all divine. Jesus is not God. Reincarnation is true. And so they're theologically minded. They're also involved. UFOs and stuff are involved with hyper torturous sexual things with the victims, among other things. And people are traumatized. Also, there's apparently only one Christian who's ever been abducted was a woman who gave permission. And that's documented in some of Missler's writings. And also, Christians generally don't get abducted.

And when unbelievers cry out to Jesus, they're delivered. They're back in their house. Something is going on. Well, what are these things? Well, another aspect of this is that there are physical phenomena. They are seen on radar. They're detected. There's impressions in ground. There's radiation remnants left in areas where these craft land. There are people who physically have touched them. GIs in the military and officers have witnessed them.

You can go to the web and look up the 1980s UFO encounter of the American military base in England. And it's one of the best documented. It's really fascinating. And these things are real. The question is, what are they? My opinion is that they're demonic manifestations, probably natalim, that have been working and doing stuff in order to foment a humongous deception that's coming. And that's what I think. OK?

I definitely appreciate that. And thank you for bringing up the natalim as well, which is, if it's OK, if I can ask one more question regarding specifically the natalim. I do not find anywhere in scripture that it is specified that the angels have gendered. And the demons have genders. Have genders? Doesn't say they have genders. No. Exactly.

Then that's my point. So I was wanting to ask what your opinion was on what is the exact nature of the natalim? And what is the meaning of that? They're the offspring of fallen angels and women.

You don't have to have a gender. Angels are incredibly powerful and different than we are. One of them killed 140,000, 180,000 people in one night. They can learn languages. They're multiple languages.

They can travel great distances very quickly. So they're a different level of existence than we are. And if you go to, for example, in Genesis chapter 6, it says that the natalim were alive in those days. And then verse 9, these are the records of the generations of Noah, a righteous man, blameless in all his generations.

All his ancestry is pure. So it looks like what was going on is that after Adam and Eve were born, the fallen ones sought women and had relations because they can manifest in human form. Because the Bible says there are angels who walk around. We can't even tell they're not people.

So they have this ability. And we've got a break coming up, and I'll expand some more stuff and show you some more stuff. Hey, folks, please be entertained. And we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Better do? Oh, that's right. They had to step away from the, there we go. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Prashant, you still there? Yes, sir. I think we wrapped it up pretty neatly. Sorry, what?

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. I think we wrapped it up pretty neatly. Thank you for your insight. Well, there's more info, though. I'm going to show you some more stuff in the Bible, though, if you want to hang on.

Oh, I would love to. Yeah. So as I said, the angels can appear as men, and you can't even tell the difference. This means sweat. Eyelashes. Hair follicles.

Everything. So the detail of their capability is incredible. Now, people say, well, they have to have a gender in order to, no, they don't. If they can manifest hair, they can manifest genitalia. Now, can they fertilize an egg?

Well, we don't know how that works. But the Jews always believed that the Nephilim were the offspring between the fallen angels and women. And the Christian church affirmed that also until about the 500s when it became ridiculed. And then the other, the Sethite theory, was introduced. So I'm of the opinion that it's the Nephilim were the offspring, the half-breeds. And one of the clues is Genesis 6.9.

He was pure, Noah was pure in his generations, his ancestry. That's a significant comment. Now, when you go to Daniel chapter 2 also, and we'll talk about this, then we'll go to Matthew 24. And Daniel 2, wow, you know, I do this every now and then. And then I forget exactly where it is. There it is.

OK. So Daniel 2 is the vision of the future, given to Daniel, with the statue. Nebuchadnezzar's statue is there, excuse me. And the top is gold. And then it turns to silver, then iron, or bronze, and then iron. And the iron and the clay are mixed. And some think that's the last days.

But at any rate, Daniel 2.43. And you saw the iron mixed with the common clay. They will combine with one another in the seat of men or with the seat of men. But they will not adhere to one another. If they are combining with one another in the seat of men, they are not people. You see? They will combine with the seat of men. That means there's a different object. So something else is going on. And it looks as though this prophecy is about the end times. Now, when you go to Matthew 24, 37, for the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. Now, I'm going to do a little bit of teaching here. So I don't know if you want to hang on or not, but it's up to you.

Yeah, I'm all yours. OK, so I'm going to just put some stuff together that might shake people up. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to read the text. But I want to tell people beforehand, you've heard me say this before if you've listened for a while, but for the newbies, when it says, two men in a field, one is taken, one is left, that is not the rapture. The rapture is talked about in a different place. This is not the rapture. This is not the wicked who are taken. And this is important.

And I'll explain why in a second. So I have Matthew 24 up on my screen, along with Luke 17 up on my screen. And basically what I do is I just show the parallels.

I teach people this. I say, this is what it says in both of them. It's not an exact word for evening equality, but it's good enough. They're very, very similar. As it was the days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the Son of Man, for they were eating, they were drinking, they were giving in marriage till the day that Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took them all away, is what Matthew 24 says. But Luke 17 says the flood came and destroyed them all. So the ones who were taken are the ones who were destroyed, and the ones who were destroyed are the ones who were giving in marriage, et cetera, and living it.

They're wicked. And in Luke 17, they asked Jesus, where have they taken? And he answers the question. He says, where the body is, the vultures gather. Now, this is really fascinating because if you go to 1 Thessalonians 4, 16, through chapter 5, verse 2, it says, the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel. And the dead in Christ shall rise, and we shall be caught up together and meet him in the air.

We shall always be with him in the air. Now, as to the, and he goes on and says, therefore comfort one another. As to the times and the epics, brethren, you have no need of anyone to teach you, for the day of the Lord will come like a thief of the night. So that day of the Lord come like a thief of the night is the rapture, the return of Christ. The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. That's the, the people who died in the faith are going to be resurrected first.

We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together and meet him in the air. So that's the rapture. So the rapture occurs, but it says, it's concomitant with the day of the Lord that comes like a thief in the night. When you go to 2 Peter 3, 9, it says something, verse 10, excuse me.

I'll read it to you, and I'll get, put this together, try and do it quickly so that all these ideas are still in their head. The day of the Lord come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and all the men shall be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. So the day of the Lord come like a thief of the night is the rapture. The day of the Lord come like a thief is the new heavens and new earth.

They're almost identical phrases. And this is the only two places in the entire Bible where these phrases are used, the day of the Lord come like a thief. And they're described in the same day, the rapture, the return of Christ, and the new heavens and new earth.

This is significant. Now, if you go to Matthew 13, excuse me, I'll do this, Matthew 12, 22 through 32, it talks about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And Jesus says in that pericope that the Holy Spirit must first be, I mean, the devil, excuse me, must first be bound before you can cast out demonic forces. He was casting out demonic forces, so therefore the Holy Spirit's bound.

That's the logical conclusion necessary for right there. And so if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you won't be saved, you can't be saved, et cetera. And Jesus says, whoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Son of Man shall be forgiven, but against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come. There's only two ages, this age and the age to come.

This is significant. I'm putting all this together because Jesus says that the ones who are taken, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, are the wicked. They're taken to a place of destruction. And the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this age or the age to come. Now what I'm going to do is go to Matthew 13. Because in Matthew 13, there's the parable of the wheat and the tares. Starting at verse 24, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. And then we know the rest of it, the enemy sowed bad stuff.

And he said, should we tear it up, the tares? He said in verse 30, allow both to grow until the harvest. At the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first, gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up.

But gather the wheat into the barn. So the first ones gathered are the wicked. Now remember, Jesus says, two men in the field, one is taken, one is left.

And it's the wicked who are taken. And they're taken to a place of destruction. And Jesus says here, Matthew 13, allow both to go together until the harvest.

First, gather the tares. Jesus then interprets the parable in verse 40 of Matthew 13. Just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. So remember, he said there's two ages, this age and the age to come. At the end of this age is when the rapture occurs, is also when the new heavens, new earth are made, is when the wicked are taken out of his kingdom.

Because that's what he says in verse 41. The Son of Man will send forth his angels. They will gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks and those who commit lawlessness. This means we're in the kingdom of God now. The Nephilim are invading the kingdom of God. And Jesus says, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the Son of Man.

The same kind of a thing is going to be going on back then to back to now. The invasion by the enemy, the demonic forces, both spiritual and physical, into our world who are going to be dealt with in the final day, at the end of the age. They are being raised up, probably, to foment a humongous deception upon the world. And Jesus says, if those days be not cut short, no flesh should be left. I believe that the demonic forces that are going to be at work want to destroy mankind because Satan in Genesis 3 said to Eve, you're not going to die. He contradicted what God said to Adam in Genesis 2.17, the day that you eat of the fruit, you will die. And Satan comes along saying, you're not going to die. But yet, the wages of his death, Romans 6.23, and the devil seeks whom he can devour. He's like a lion. He wants to kill, wants to destroy. So what's going to be happening, I believe, is the end of the world will come at the last minute when the demonic forces, physical and or spiritual, are working to bring mankind to its self-destruction, and that Christ is going to come back and stop it at the last moment and take out of his kingdom the wicked, which means, just like the wicked were taken out of the world through the flood, it'll happen again later on.

That's what Jesus says in Matthew 13, 30 through 40. OK? Interesting. I'll just stop. Absolutely, sir.

I can't even wrap my head around it entirely, but I'll do something about it. Let's listen to it. Hey, there's a break. We had to go, buddy.

So God bless. We'll talk to you later. Hey, folks, that was, uh, I hope you enjoyed it. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I just want to let you know that we're having a matching funds drive, match the end of your matching funds drive. Whatever you donate to the ministry will be doubled. Praise God for that. And if you want to support us, all you got to do is go to karm.org forward slash donate, C-A-R-M karm.org forward slash donate.

Easy to do. It's all you got to do. And we ask $5 a month, $10 a month, or a one-time gift, doesn't matter. And if you'd be so kind to do that, we do need it. And we would really appreciate it.

Let's get to Paul from Hebrew, I mean, from Virginia. Hey, Matt. Go ahead. What's up, man? OK, how are you doing? Doing all right. Just doing radio, drinking coffee.

Yep. Hey, I still can't get into the clubhouse, but I thought this question might be appropriate for everyone. So I was in Israel for a while and had a great time, met a lot of wonderful people. But I also met a lot of people that were, well, I didn't know how to deal with them. They were professing to be Christians, but they had a lot of strange customs. The men were wearing tzitzits, and all they wanted to talk about is the Torah and being observant of that and keeping the feast days. And I met some of the guys.

I met a guy from the UK that was just a really kind, good, genuine gentleman. And he was trying his best to get me involved in a group he was with. And this guy, his name is Joe Dumond. And I've watched hours of his stuff, and the things I saw were really alarming. They seem to deny the Trinity and obedience is necessary for salvation, blah, blah, blah, on and on and on. And he puts all this emphasis on the moons.

And I ended up calling him Blood Moon Joe. But so I had to do a lot of digging when I came back. And it really seems to me like this is the fastest growing cult there is. And I know it goes under the Hebrew roots. And I found a few resources, but not enough.

I searched on Karm, and I couldn't find anything. What do you know about them? It's a bad group for the most part. It's an umbrella name for a lot of subgroups. But generally what it means is the Hebrew roots, people want you to observe Old Testament laws, feasts, and things like that, keep the law of the Old Testament. And there are different groups that have different levels of law keeping.

The question then becomes, is the law keeping for the purpose of being saved? If they say yes, it's a cult. If they say no, then it's just a group that wants to be Jewish in its practices. If it wants to just be Jewish in its practices, but still affirms the Trinity, the deity of Christ, because some of them don't affirm the Trinity. And if it does affirm the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace, alone through faith alone in Christ alone, then they're within the Christian orthodoxy.

They're just enamored with Old Testament Jewish practices. So it just depends on which kind of a group it is. This is why when you talk to them, you have to ask them very specific questions.

Do you have to keep the law in order to have your sins forgiven by God? That's it. What do they say? If they say, well, you see, that's not good. The answer is yes or no.

That's how it works. Whenever you ask a direct question like that, which is clear in scripture, then all you've got to do is just be very, very specific. And you're going to find out soon know which kind of group you're talking to. OK?

Very helpful. Another thing I noticed about this particular group, and I've seen it in some of the other ones that I've come across, is their insistence, their adamant insistence on never calling our Lord Jesus. They also say Lord is another name for Baal, and they have all kinds of names for God, like Jehoshaphat or Jehoshua or something like that.

I mean, it's it's crazy. So Lord is in Greek is kurios, and it just means Lord. OK, right. And that's all it is.

And what these guys are doing is just making a mountain out of them, out of Mohel in their self-righteous ignorance. Now, if you go to Matthew 121, it says she shall bear his son and you shall call his name Jesus. In the Greek, it's Jesus. That's how you pronounce it. Jesus. OK, right. His name.

So that's what we're told. That's why I talked to the Hebrew Israelite people and others who have a sacred name, cult groups and things like this. I'll say, so what's his name? And they go, oh, it's it's Yeshua, you know, or whatever they say.

They have different pronunciations. And I say so. But why is it that we're told to use the Greek name here in the Greek? OK, and they'll say, well, that's because it's written in Greek, not Aramaic. And I say, yes, that's right. It was written in Greek and in Greek.

That's what we're told to do. And I say, but it's not original. It's Aramaic that's the original.

I'll say, how do you know? Where's the evidence for the Aramaic is being the first thing that was written? Because if it's written in Aramaic, the New Testament was written in Aramaic. Then the diaspora is kind of meaningless. The diaspora is the time when the Romans came in and attacked Israel around 70 A.D. And the persecution was already going under Nero's persecution of the of the Jews and the Christians as they were going. And so what happened was that the Christians fled throughout the Mediterranean area.

This is important because historically speaking, about 300 years earlier, Alexander the Great had come through the whole Mediterranean area and conquered. And he made Greek the national language. It was the lingua franca. So you had to speak Greek and or another language, because that was the universal language, just like English so far still is the lingua franca in the world. It used to be French, and now it's it's English. OK, so if God wants the gospel to go out, he's not going to have it written in Aramaic, because like eight people would speak Aramaic.

If you get my drift at that time, maybe a lot more. But you get the idea where millions will be speaking Greek. So which language is it going to be written in in Greek?

So that's what we have. And I'd say to them, so you're telling me then that all of the instances of the New Testament writing in Greek are all wrong. When it says his name is Jesus. In fact, in Greek, the name of Jesus is used 914 times in the New Testament.

That's why I ask him, are all the occurrences wrong of all the Greek manuscripts? Is that what you're saying? These guys, they're lame.

They're just lame. All right. Matt, that's very, very helpful. And that was actually going to be my next question, is because they try to say that it was originally written in Aramaic. So I was wondering, how can that be debunked?

Did they source was I can't find any source. No, don't debunk it. Then it puts it upon you to go through historically and look in the topic called historicity and manuscript evidence to do all the research. You can't do that. I can't even do that. And so what I just say to them is show me the manuscripts that are in Aramaic that are early. Show me. Yeah.

Fantastic. Listen, in addition to the question that I need to ask about, is observing the Torah necessary for salvation? What other questions could you pose to them to give them an opportunity to really think about the path that they're on? Well, what I would ask them is, do you believe the New Testament? Because they don't believe the New Testament.

Obviously, it's a cult and it's a different topic if they say yes. OK, then how are we justified? This is why I teach people it's necessary to know the theological terms.

Justification is a theological term and justification is a word used in the Bible a lot. And so we do that. So if we're to be justified and that word is, you know, 1344. I'm going to just do a quick count. That's justified. OK, one, three, four, four.

It occurs 40 times. And in the New Testament and, you know, there's other forms of the word that are going to be used. But the point is that it's biblical and justification is a legal declaration of righteousness that occurs by faith.

You go to Romans four, one through six on that. And so I always ask them, you know, now I talk, when I talk to them, I talk slowly. You are talking quickly. But I say to them, what is justification? And then they, you know, did they get it right? OK, good.

You got it right. If it didn't get it right, I have to go through Romans four, one through six with them and teach it to them. It's a declaration of righteousness. How is it obtained by faith or by faith and something you do? And if they say by faith only good, as a Romans four or five says to the one who does not work, but believes in him, who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

And if they're going to require any works or ceremony, circumcision, baptism, observing, whatever it is, then it's a cult. Furthermore, you need to memorize this address. Colossians 2 16. Therefore, I've already got it memorized. Oh, you're good. OK, let me read for everybody else then. Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival, which is yearly, a new moon, which is monthly or Sabbath day, which is weekly.

So they're not to judge you on those things. OK. Right. Well, that's that's the shadow of the things that come.

Try this, the substance. That's right. And also, here's me give you a theological point. I know I'm going quickly, but look, if they say they have to be keeping the law in order to be saved, then they're still under the law in Romans seven, one through four. The first four verses of Romans seven, you should study. If you've died, you're freed from the law. But we've died with Christ. Romans six, six, Romans six, eight, Colossians, three, three.

Therefore, we're not obligated to keep the law simple. OK. Fantastic. That's so helpful, Matt. I appreciate it.

Hey, you're welcome, man. God bless the problem. I deal with these guys a lot, you know, and variations of a lot. A lot. OK.

It's a cult. OK. Right.

Yeah. OK. All right. All right, man. God bless. OK. God bless. All right. Now, let's see, we've got enough time, I think, for Clarice, Second Peter topic. Let's go. We got about two minutes in the show. What do you got? I'll probably need more than that. So do you have an after show?

Do you have an after show? Yeah. OK. And second, Peter, I just want to know what you believe the Bible teaches in Second Peter, two verses, say, 18 through 21, 22. Do you believe that that is teaches that a person can lose their salvation? No, we can't lose our salvation. Jesus says in John six, 37 to 40, will the fathers that he lose none?

And so he can't lose any. Well, I know this. I'm just asking. I know this.

I agree 100 percent. I'm just asking for you, your interpretation of Second Peter two verses, 18 through, say, 22. Well, do that in the after show. OK, because we're obviously not going to have the time to go through all those verses, but they can't contradict what Jesus already stated.

He says, well, the father, if you like. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, to get that. I agree with that. But good. Which is how do I get on the after show?

Well, I'm not sure where you are, but what you can do is I'm in North Carolina. Yeah. OK, sorry. Just go to rumble dot com forward slash match slick live rumble dot com forward slash match slick live. And the URL will be pasted in there.

You get in there to say, hey, where's the URL for the after show? And I'll give it to you. OK. OK. OK, great. Thanks a lot. All right. Well, God bless. Hey, folks, there you go.

That was a quick hour. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We're back on there tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. We'll talk to you then. Have a good evening. God bless.