Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

It is October 2nd, 2023 for the podcasters. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And the last four digits are C-A-R-M on your phone dial.

And so it's 877-207-KARM, C-A-R-M. And if you want to give me a call, I don't have anybody waiting right now. I'm just going to tell you what we did over the weekend. So I have a friend, he's still here, Dave, I've known for over 40 years. And another guy, Scott, who came down from Spokane, and he drove down. So we all went out, let's see, Friday we drove down to Salt Lake City, got an Airbnb, and what a joke that was. Oh my goodness, it was horrible. And then we did some evangelism at Temple Square.

I preached on Sunday, and then we got back last night. So let me just tell you a little bit about what happened. I know a lot of people say Airbnb is really good, and I've heard a lot of people say it's really good. My wife's used it, my kids have used it. The first time I've ever used it was a debacle. I called it Airbnb and debacle is what I called it. So we signed up, and I'll tell you this, the sign-up procedure was confusing, because it's just confusing how it was.

And I'm talking to the guys, what does this mean? You know, guest, not guest, is it one guest, two guests, because mine was signing up, and then it's somebody else with me. We're having three people. They didn't say total people, they said guests with one, how many.

It didn't make any sense. And I signed up, and okay. So three of us, we wanted a place with three bedrooms and three bedrooms, maybe we could afford that, not a problem. And we finally get there, five and a half hours of driving, we get to this place down in Sandy, Utah. We get there, and we're looking up and down the street for the address. We can't find it, it's not there. And we're like, this is really confusing. And then we realized something's wrong with the address, and it's not our fault. We go online, look at the Airbnb thing, I look at my emails, and what they gave us is where we're at.

So my friend Dave, he just had to do it, went into Waze and just typed in the first word, and it propagated something else out with that first word and then something else. He goes, hey, look, there's another street with, you know, the word is iron, was the first name, it was just iron way, but it wasn't. It was iron ore way. He found the iron ore. And so we went over there, and we found out that the email, we got like five or six different emails with different information in them. And I'm looking, I go, what is going on?

And so we, okay, then maybe this is right. And then get this, we get to the apartment complex, and it looks like we're in the right place, and we see a building with the address on, and then there's supposed to be an apartment number. And I had to drill down like four or five emails. I go, oh, look, this one email, and we had several, just one of them had apartment number. You'd think you'd get one email with all your information instead of all these emails with different information, and you look and you go, well, it's reserved, okay, thank you, and move along. So my friend goes up to that apartment number, and it doesn't work.

The code doesn't work. And so he comes out and goes, this isn't it. And so I get the phone, and now I'm talking to a guy from India. And I kept saying, what are you saying? I can't understand him.

And we're sitting out in the parking lot around midnight or so, and 11 o'clock at midnight, trying to find where we're supposed to be, go get a hotel now. And so I'm talking to this guy, and he keeps saying something. I'm saying, what, what's the, what, what are you saying, what are you saying?

Give me something to talk English without an accent. It was pretty bad. And so I'm frustrated, and my two buds that came with us are trying to figure this thing out on their end, and they go up to the apartment again. It's not the right one. And they come down, and we get frustrated. And I'm talking to this guy from India, going, what's wrong? And he goes, what's your number, what's this, what's that? And I ended up hanging up on him. I was so mad. And then Dave comes down and goes, we found it.

We were able to get in the apartment. I'm like, you're kidding. So, okay, fine. I'm talking to the guy, you know, he had called me back, and I just said, look, we found it, I'm just done, okay?

I'll talk to you later, bye. And it was pretty frustrating, right? So the reason it didn't work the first time, the code, is because the mechanism, which was digital, when you press it, only showed up a couple of numbers and not the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. It just showed a one and a five. So that's broken. That can't be the right thing.

It just was a debacle, right? And so finally we get in, and there's three bedrooms, and we're going in there. Dave opens up a bedroom door, and there's a guy sleeping in there. And we're like, what the heck?

It turns out this Airbnb has locks on the door so you can rent individual rooms. Well, that wasn't clear on the, oh, man. So we actually woke this guy up, and he explained everything, how it really worked. So I was like, okay, this is what we're doing, you know?

And so Dave and I shared a big bed, and every guy shared, you know, he had his own room. Well, the toilet doesn't work. Well, I actually did. But it's consequently, the mechanism's broken. It's just leaking constantly. And we're like, oh, man, if we could turn that off. So we got up in the morning, finally, and the cleaner, those round things that go around, you know, the robot things that clean the floor, got stuck underneath the couch. It was making this noise.

And so Dave, he has to fix that. And so then we have all our stuff in the room, and we're going to go to Temple Square. And so there's a key to lock that door. And I was suspicious, and I put the key in there. I almost locked it and just closed it because we had the key. And I said, I'm going to test this key. And the key wouldn't work.

It would not open the door. This is a complete joke. And so we're sitting there and trying to figure things out, right? Could not figure things out. I just said, screw this.

This is ridiculous. And we just put our stuff in there hoping that our guy won't steal stuff. He turned out to be a pretty nice guy, actually. And then we're on the way to Temple Square and all this stuff.

And the guy who had his room by himself goes, there was crumbs in the bed. Oh, man. And so that's how that went. So we were not happy about that. We're out at Temple Square.

I'll tell you what happened out there. And Terry Johnson, she's awesome. Normally I'll stay with her, her family. They have a big house, lots of bedrooms.

And they're great folks. And she calls me up and texts me, hey, we've got three open rooms now, if you want. Because people were there. They left because the best way you couldn't bother them.

And she goes, just come on down. We did. We left the Airbnb.

I got to call them and say, give me my money back. This is ridiculous. And she's so sweet. And we sat up and talked about babies with their daughter had a baby.

It was fun. And at any rate, so out of Temple Square, I have a sign that says, ismormonismchristian.com. And that's what I'll do. I'll just hold it up.

And there's thousands and thousands of these Mormons. And maybe they'll see it. And they can go look at it. Because it's easy to remember, ismormonismchristian.com. And they go look at it.

And they can see the documentation and stuff like that. And so Dave and I tag teamed on a guy from Ecuador, I think he was. Or Mexico, I forgot.

In Spanish, we're going back and forth talking to him. And a lot of Mormons. And the police were out there. Everything was nice.

Everything was fine. But there were some Christians out there who, you know, I just don't agree with some of the approaches. Like having a sign up, repent of Mormonism, and then yelling, you're serving the devil. You've got to repent. And it just doesn't help.

And I know it doesn't help because I had an interesting conversation with a guy named Matt, same name as me. And he had just left his mission, his Mormon mission. And he has become a Christian. And what happened, he said, was on his mission, he went to a door and was talking to a woman. And she just knew Mormonism and knew Christianity and was just having a very polite conversation with him and was pointing him to the New Testament. And so he looked at what it says here is what it says there.

And he was intrigued by that. So he went and read the New Testament, which they don't do in Mormonism. He read the New Testament.

He says, oh, my goodness, everything she's saying is right here. And this is not what our church teaches. And he learned that Mormonism was false. And he left.

And so we're talking. And I said, so how long have you been out? He goes, about a few months.

What church do you go to? And he says, I don't like going to church. And I get it. He just came out.

I mean, this organization that's controlling him and everything. And I go, I get you, I get you. I said, well, you study doctrine. He goes, yeah, I do. He says, well, what's the Trinity? He tells what the Trinity is. And he got it right.

He got the hypostatic union right that Jesus has two natures, salvation is by grace alone. He was getting it all right. I said, dude, you're getting this stuff.

You're reading a word. And he goes, yeah. He said, I'm studying other stuff too. He says, but there it is. He says, it's so simple. It is so simple.

It's so wonderful. And we exchanged phone numbers. And he seemed like a real humble guy, a good guy. And he made the comment with these Christian guys who were out yelling, just yelling. And he says, they don't understand that to a Mormon that confirms they're in the truth because they're told they're going to be persecuted. And this is the kind of persecution they're told to watch for. And I said, I agree with you.

I don't think it's good. And I've known of a guy who, and I disagree with this. And I'll tell him to him. I say, I disagree with what you're doing. And he will wear temple garments out in public with a devil mask on.

Now that's offensive. Don't do that. It's just, you know, and so me, I'll just talk to them and hold up a sign. And, you know, and I'll, I'll say it with some people within 20 feet can hear me.

I'll say, why is it that the Mormon church puts the veil back in the temple, the veil that God destroyed at the crucifixion of Christ. And I'll ask that, you know, and I even talked to a cop. I said, am I being too loud when I do this?

He goes, no, not at all. You know, I'm trying to be respectful, but you got to talk to them. And I would say that because that's about how long it would take as people were walking by, as they would see the sign. And another thing I would say is, do you really believe that your God is an exalted man with another world? And they'd look at me and I'd say, doesn't that make him an alien? And they would kind of chuckle, but they got it. And they, you know, and they were gone.

And those are the things I would say, because you really can't do too much because they expect to be persecuted. And that's how that is. So Dave, he, let's see. And so Dave, what he said, oh, I forgot. Yeah, everything turned on.

That's right, everything should be working in Clubhouse. So Dave, he had an idea. He was holding up a sign.

We had several of the signs that, and it says, isbormismchristian.com, several of them, right? And so he didn't know what to say. He says, I've got to say something. He goes, what am I going to say? And so he came up with something I thought was brilliant. I did.

I went, that is awesome. He points up to the sign. He's holding it up.

He goes, free website. People just looked up. And he kept doing it. And they would look up and they'd see that isbormismchristian.com.

He goes, I didn't do what else to say. I got a big kick out of that. So free website, and there it is. And it is, it's free, free information, free this. Check it out.

So people were looking. And I thought, Dave, that was awesome. So anyway, it was a lot of fun. And if you are out there and you're hearing the show right now and you want to say what you saw, what you like, what you didn't like, even if you're a Mormon and you happen to be listening to me, and you say, I don't like this, and then you call up, I'm going to hear. I'm not going to get mad at you.

So if you want to do that, give me a call. Hey, there's the music. We've got a break. We'll be right back after these messages, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. I'm really waiting, so why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to hear what you've got to say. And maybe if you're a Mormon and you're listening and you don't like what we do out there, I understand.

But please feel free to give me a call, and you can disagree, and that's fine, and we'll talk. So that's what we did on Saturday, and we went over. We spent the night over at the other place outside that Airbnb debacle. Then Sunday we went down to Provo and preached at City on a Hill Church, and great folks there. I've preached there a couple of times, I think, now. And what was really interesting was there was a Mormon girl who was there from BYU doing research. She was supposed to go to other churches, and we got talking, and we treated her fine, and she was really polite. On the first Sunday of each month, they have a potluck there, and so she joined us downstairs in the church facility, and we did about a half hour. She was really sweet. But during the sermon, and she heard it, I really told the truth about Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and how they're all false because I was preaching, and the pastor had asked me to preach on spiritual warfare.

The manifestation of the spiritual warfare in our world today, the tools we need to do, and then he wanted me to talk about my occult experience before I became a Christian. And so he did and enjoyed that, and it's a great church there. It's a great church. Good people there, really are.

I probably would end up going there if I lived in the area, if Laura would let me. Let's see. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I'll be right back. Let's get the bullet. Matt from Arizona.

Welcome. You're on the air. I'm Matt. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. How are you doing? Life is good, my friend.

Life is real good. I just went and was checking in on you. I went and saw you were talking about the Mormon Church, and I'm here just to kind of talk with you about it, honestly, because I'm an F Mormon. I went and I was raised in the Mormon Church.

Okay. Went and went on a mission. I actually went on a mission to Idaho. I've actually been to your house. I met your daughter on the street. I've had dinner. You're an awesome guy. I can go and rep for all of your listeners.

You're a very friendly person. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So you came to the house here as a Mormon missionary? Yeah. Yeah, your daughter, she got off to school, and I was trafficking in your neighborhood, and she came up and started talking to me about how the Mormons don't believe the Bible, and I hit her with my unusual. No one believes the Bible.

Like, there isn't a church that believes their standard works. And then she's like, you need to come talk to my dad. And I ended up, we ended up setting an appointment. Okay, and you came over?

Really? Yeah, I came over. I went over to your house. You went and you fed me a steak.

You went and brought me upstairs to at least the, I think it's on the second story is where, like, your recording studio is. We went and sat down and had a chat there. We talked about a bunch of stuff. Did I treat you okay?

The thing that I remember most was predestination. What was that? Did I treat you okay? You were awesome. You treated me awesome. You got me in trouble. I went and I stayed there past 10, was past my curfew, but it was all worth it.

It was one of my favorite experiences. I finally got to talk to someone that knew a bit about the Bible and gave me some perspectives. I'm good. I'm good.

Okay. So here's my question. Like, and I think I probably went and asked you this on my mission. Growing up as a Mormon, we have the Melchizedek priesthood, which gives people the authority to go and heal the sick.

Now, to people that aren't familiar with this, I can understand how strange that sounds. But, you know, at least being Christian, like the Bible believes is we can at least believe that it's possible because we have a savior that went and did it to people along, but there's tons of other stuff. And if we wanted to go and pull Christianity straight out of it, we can go and look up Reiki out in China, and they're healing people with their hands just like Jesus.

And if you want to go to the Monroe Institute, they can go and give you an explanation for it, too. But as an ex-Mormon that's walking away from the Mormon Church for good reasons, I've healed people with my hands just like Jesus Christ. When I was talking with you on my mission, I couldn't take you seriously at all. Okay. Like, you can go and talk about Jesus all day, but at the end of the day, like, Christianity is me is emulating Christ. And if you aren't emulating Christ, you're doing something wrong. Okay.

And? So how can I take you seriously if you're not, like, how many people have you healed? And if you're not, how can I take you seriously? Or how can I even take Christianity seriously at this point?

Because I can't find Christian churches that do this. Oh, you're serious. Is that your question? Yes. Well, the thing about healing is that the devil can imitate healing because you can go to Matthew 7, 22 and 23, where Jesus says, Many will say to me that day, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy in your name, perform any miracles, cast off demons?

He says, Get away from me, I never knew you. And so even if there are healings, now we have another problem. How do we know they're from God? Because Jesus says this can happen.

So that's an issue. But there are anecdotal accounts all over the world where Christians, not Mormons, but Christians are healing people, speaking in tongues, raising the dead. Now, how do you document these things? You know, someone's out in a jungle and they speak another language, which I have a book that talks about this, how this happened, called Bruchco. Or how do you document that someone in a village brought their child in and they're limp and there's no breath and there's no heartbeat and you pray over them and they're walking and they're okay.

How do you document that? That's the case. You get these stories from all over and they're consistent. And so I'd say, well, yeah, these things are happening. In fact, I don't know if you are aware of this, but Muslims are having visions and dreams of Jesus all over the Middle East and people are, there's some miraculous things happening.

And the biggest underground Christian church in the Middle East is in Iran, where basically it's illegal to be a Christian. And so there's a lot of miraculous stuff happening. Okay? Are you there? Okay. So where are you going now? What's with you now? Well, essentially I'm just independent. Christ is my Savior. If he loves me, if he's, honestly, I'm a child of God.

I'm a chip off the old block. In terms of how life works, this is a learning environment for me and my family. And we're going to probably be here until we learn what we are supposed to and become God, just like my father, the chip of my dad. Gods? But it's impossible to become a God.

I'm a child of God. What does that mean? See, this is what the Mormons do.

It means a lot. They don't know what they're doing. They don't know.

They don't study. They used to say, child of God means you're literally a child of God. It means he has relations with his wife. And that's what it means. That's not what it means. See?

Look. Children of God and children and heirs. Heirs of God and joy and heirs of Christ, just like Paul said.

Yeah, and the heirs has a doing. We're going across. Hold on, let me explain. We have faith and work.

We both agree that we have faith and work. Hold on, hold on. Guy, you're going too fast. You're throwing too many things out without any response, okay?

You can't build a case on things that aren't accurate. Let me ask you, do you believe you can become a God? If I wanted to.

That's a lot of work. You've got to let me do whatever I wanted. So what do you do when the Bible says there's no gods formed after me? Okay, when God says that. There will be none formed after me.

What do you do with it? There's a break. Hold on.

We've got a break. Hold on. We'll get back to you, okay? Hey folks, you want to give me a call?

We have three open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Matt from Arizona. Matt, welcome back on. Okay? What up?

Good to be with you. Yeah, so I asked you a question and you said you couldn't get the potential of becoming a god. What do you do with the scripture where God says before me there was no god formed.

There will be none after me. What do you do with that? You know what?

I go and I take the scriptures as they commonly go and I pretty much get personal revelation because a lot of people have had their hands over the Bibles over the past few hundred years and have stripped books out and decided, you know what? This means that means this and this means that. Hold on. So I'm going to try to get as many sources as I can. I'm going to tell you something, okay? As far as that statement about the Bible in many hands and take this out, you have no clue what you're talking about. You are completely totally wrong. I definitely do.

No, you don't. What's historicity? No one takes the Bible seriously.

We can't get to verse 6 of Genesis before we have to start talking about how the earth is flat. Excuse me. Excuse me. What is historicity? I don't know. Yeah, I'm going to have to go outside the dictionary. Okay, so historicity is a study of the biblical documents. That's all it is.

That's what it's worth. If you studied this, you'd know that. You haven't studied the biblical documents. Are you familiar with the various manuscript trees?

Oh, hey, we went and we kind of had, there's tons of different documents. So you don't know. Like you said, they're not in the Bible. You're talking about the Bible.

Which Bible is the truest? Do you want to go off king games? Excuse me. You've got to calm down. You've got to calm down. No wonder you're confused. You're not thinking critically. You're not thinking clearly.

You need to think clearly. See, when Satan went to Eve, said to Eve, did God really say? He cast doubt on the word of God. Do you think God can't keep his word secure?

Do you think he's not capable of doing that in the Bible? Is that what you think? That he failed?

Is that it? I think he failed. Because isn't that what happened? God failed to keep his word pure? His own word inspired. No, God knows how things work.

This is a learning environment. So you agree with the Muslims that the Bible's been corrupted, right? Do you agree with the Muslims? Muslims, Freemasons, everyone except Christians that don't heal people like Jesus on the weekend. Heal Jesus like Jesus on the weekend.

So what about Friday? Yeah, you still didn't answer my question from the original question, which is how many people have you healed like Jesus? None. I don't heal anybody. Why should I take you seriously? Well, because I teach the truth.

You don't. Oh, yeah, I was. Well, I taught what I was thinking the truth. I was teaching people about Jesus Christ and having people go to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

No, no, no. You were talking about a cult. No, Mormonism's a non-Christian cult. God is a planet. Christianity is a cult, which is all cool.

I'm down with it. Dude, dude, hold on. God does not come from another planet, doesn't have a goddess wife. He wasn't a man in another world. It makes him an alien. The Trinity's not three separate gods. You don't need handshakes to become a god and things like this.

It was started by Joseph Smith who quantified his scripture. You're not a good thinker. I'm going to tell you flat out because I want to undermine your whole premise. You don't even know how to think critically. You don't know what the issues are. You go around deceiving people.

And you chuckle, and that's what it is. You don't even know what historicity is in the relationship with the scriptures. I'm sure if I were to ask you logic questions, you wouldn't know what that is. I'm hearing someone that has faith with no works. Okay, so no works. You have no works behind your nail other than your mouth.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. So the works that I have shown is going to Salt Lake City yesterday, six-hour drive each way, taking care of business doing that, working on radio for 20 years, writing books, doing website stuff, talking to people. That's not any works, right? So what you do is you, in your arrogance, what you do is you say, this is the work that has to be here.

It has to be the healing by laying on of hands. That's what you say it is. Can you show me out of the scriptures, can you show me out of the scriptures where that is the criteria? Remember, you said the Bible has been corrupted. So where are you getting this and that's the criteria?

Where are you getting it that that is? Here's a great one. Let's start with Moses. I got Moses. He goes up and talks to God on Mount Sinai. He brings down the law and sees people worshipping Baal or the golden calf.

He throws his law on the ground, breaks God's law, then goes and cuts down the Ten Commandments and takes all the special stuff that God said and said, nah, I'm going to go and pull this aside. You need to focus. You need to focus. You need to focus. You need to focus. Maybe you want to put your fingertip in front of your eyes and focus.

Why aren't Christians reading the Kabbalah? I'm going to ask you a question. I want you to focus, all right? Since you say the Bible has been corrupted, where do you get your criteria that says that in order to know if someone is from God it has to be by healing as Jesus did?

Where do you get this from? Oh, no. Emulating Christ is Christianity. Okay, hold on. Do you agree with that statement? Hold on.

Where do you get this? Is it in the Bible that you say is corrupted? Yeah, actually, exactly. I'm going to go and get as much good information out of the Bible as I can. So how do you know if the Bible is corrupted, why are you trusting it in this one area and not the other areas? Because I have a personal relationship with God, and God goes to the Holy Spirit to go and say that. How do you know? How do you know?

You believe that there's many gods because you believe in God. Because I'm emulating Christ. No, you're not.

That's how you know. You're emulating the devil who's casting doubt on God's word and teaching something false. You are, if not possessed, you're oppressed. You are deceived, and you're deceiving others. And you can't even answer my questions. What authority do you have by which you say the Bible is corrupted?

Where do you get that? You don't even know what the issues are, and you say the standard stuff of ignorant people about the reliability of the Scriptures. You just don't know what you're talking about.

And you don't. Okay, so when God starts the firmament, what's the verse one then, Mr. Bible's true? Okay. What's the firmament?

Okay. What's the firmament? Okay, hold on.

Tell me what the firmament is, Mr. Bible girl. I want you to focus. You know words. I want you to focus. I want you to listen.

Tell me it's the hard layer that holds the water above and the water below. Okay, we're gone. We're gone.

Okay. So you could tell what happened, folks. He's not focusing. This is one of the things that people who sometimes are possessed, I'm not saying he is, at the very least oppressed, or have issues where they can't focus. It's a problem. If they can't focus on what the issues really are and they're all over the place, that means they don't know how to put their thoughts together rationally and succinctly, and so they make all these mistakes, and he's doing that. It's just going to go downhill, I know.

I've done this kind of conversation with people who are like him, who are obstreperous. Let's get to Samuel from Las Vegas. Samuel, welcome.

You're on the air. Hello. How you doing? Doing all right, man.

What do you got, buddy? I have a question about baptism in the name of Jesus. What is your take? I believe it is a necessity a man is baptized in the name of Jesus for salvation. Okay. So what if, then, someone's on his deathbed and he trusts in Christ on his deathbed?

I mean, I've seen this, okay? I used to work at a hospital, and he asks Jesus to forgive him, believes he's God in flesh, died on the cross, rose from the dead, trusts in what he did by faith, trusts Jesus, and he dies before he's baptized. Does he go to heaven or hell?

Okay, so for that, yeah. Where's he going, heaven or hell? Wait, no, I cannot say. I can't send somebody to heaven or hell.

That's up to God, yeah? You're not. No, wait, wait, wait. You blew it. You just blew it. You don't realize it.

No, I didn't blow it. I'll explain. I have something to say.

I have something to say. If you say water baptism's necessary and he doesn't get water baptized, then he has to go to hell by your logic. If you say you don't know what it is, then you're admitting that water baptism's not necessary. Wait, no, no, no, no, no. The example that you gave me, wait, the example that you gave me, he's on his deathbed already.

Yeah. We don't know what that guy did throughout his life. We don't know if God gave him a chance to be, we don't know. Right there, he believes in trust in Christ for real because the Bible says that God grants that you have faith, Philippians 1 29, and Jesus says in John 6 29 that the faith that God gives you is in Christ. So if God gives you the faith... I believe that.

No, I'm just thinking about the man. Then if God grants that faith to a person on his deathbed and that faith is in Christ and what he's done and then he dies before baptism, does he go to heaven or hell? Okay, but how do you know a man did not reject that before his deathbed? Listen, listen. That's why I say that. I cannot judge that. Listen, listen. That's why I say that.

I cannot judge that. Listen. Think.

Think. God grants that people have faith. Philippians 1 29. Jesus says this is the work of God that you believe on him whom he has sent.

John 6 29. So when a man is on his deathbed and he's afraid and the chaplain comes in and I know this happens because I knew the chaplain of the hospital I worked at and we talked about it. We went to our same church and he told me it does happen.

And I thought to others, it happens. The man's on the deathbed and he can't move hardly and the pastor preaches the gospel. Jesus Christ, God in flesh, died on the cross. All of that and you receive him.

Do you trust him? And the man says, yes. I realize I've committed sin. I realize I deserve hell, but I trust in Christ. And then he dies before baptism.

Is such a man damned or does he go to heaven? We've got a break. Answer the question when we come back and I'll show you more stuff. If you can answer it, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show, the last segment of the hour. Sam, are you still there?

Yes, I'm still here. Okay. So does the man who's trusted in Christ and didn't get baptized before he dies, does he go to heaven or hell? Okay, so the example that you're giving me, it does not apply to the like billions of people walking around right now. Like nobody, everybody's not on their deathbed.

You're taking the most extreme of it. I didn't ask about them. I said the man who's on his deathbed does that man, when he dies, before receiving baptism, but having trusted in Christ, does he go to heaven or hell?

That man. Okay, and can you tell me if that guy, if God gave that guy a chance before he got to his deathbed? Okay, you're not answering the question. I'm answering your question.

No, you're not. It's either he goes to heaven or he goes to hell. Which is it? There are only two choices.

Which one is it? Okay, this is Jesus. This is what Jesus said, okay? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man is born of water and of spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. It's not me, it's Jesus.

Okay, so let's work with that, okay? So what water is he talking about there in John 3? Water.

Okay, not water. What baptism? Baptism. What baptism? The baptism of John? No.

John. The Trinitarian baptism? No.

Well then what? What baptism? Because the only baptism that you could even say he was talking about right there is the baptism of John the Baptist. No, no, no.

Yes, yes, yes. The baptism of John was not for like salvation. It was to change the... Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? You don't know what you're talking about. He's baptized for the forgiveness of your sins. I do. That's what John was doing.

Right? So you guys say for the forgiveness of sins means that's how you get forgiveness of sins. So what baptism is he talking... What baptism do you think he's talking about in John 3? Which baptism is it? The baptism that was not yet existing?

No, no, no. On Acts, there were people that were baptized prior before they started baptizing in the name of Jesus. There were people that were baptized... I got that. ...in the baptism of John.

I got that. And then they got rebaptized in the name of Jesus for their salvation. Where does it say that?

Where does it say that? Acts 10. I think, hold on. Acts 10, they got rebaptized? Yes. But Acts 10, 44 through 48, they get baptized after they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. In Acts 2, 38, they get baptized before they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Do you know what the gift of the Holy Spirit is? Yes. That's when Jesus said, unless a man is born of water and spirit, that's the baptism of spirit is the Holy Spirit.

Okay. What is the gift of the Holy Spirit? What is it? The gift of Holy Spirit. What is the gift of the Holy Spirit? What gift is the Holy Spirit giving? Salvation. Where's that in the Bible?

Can you show that to me in Scripture? Are you making it up? You're not thinking. I'm not making it up.

Yes, you are. It says in the Bible, Jesus said, you have to be baptized and then... You're not listening. What is the gift? You're not listening. What is the gift that the Holy Spirit gives? You're not listening.

You don't think. I'm trying to find a verse. What, in Acts 2, 38? That's the baptism in Jesus.

You don't know what that means either. There are so many things to talk about, okay? But I'm asking you, what is the gift? Because in the context, if you read Acts 2, 38, read before it, they're speaking in tongues. They're speaking in tongues.

Yes. That's what's happening. And then in Acts 10, 44 through 48, they're speaking in tongues and they're exalting God. And Peter says, who can receive, who can forbid them water to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?

How do they know? Because of the evidence of speaking in tongues and the other thing that was going on there. That's the gift of the Holy Spirit right there. It's a charismatic movement. It's in the context.

Read Acts 2 and read Acts 10. Wait, wait. Not everybody speaks in tongues when they receive the Holy Spirit. You're right.

That's right. Because the Holy Spirit gives the gifts that we want. So it's talking about the charismatic.

And that's for those who are believers. The charismatic gifts are for those who are already believers. What is charismatic?

What was that word? Charismata? Charismata.

That's the Greek word. Charismata. Charismata. Okay?

Charismata gifts. Okay? All right? But is it not necessary to be baptized in the name of Jesus according to Acts 2.38? No. Why not? Because that's not what you think it means.

That's not what it means. Because in the name of is by the authority of. And if you go to Acts chapter 4 verse 7 they're asking Peter, in what name are you doing this? authority you're doing this by in what name it says in the name of Jesus we're doing this that specifically shows you that the phrase in the name of is by the authority of that's what it means not it's not a formula you guys you know you're in your oneness group okay and you give the same arguments and you don't think these things through I'm sorry but you guys don't I'm not you're making it seem like I'm denying the authority I'm not denying authority but formula is there it's not the formula Jesus said when they healed Jesus apostle when they healed when they did everything they did it in the name of Jesus you're right right authority because upon the calling the name of Jesus they did it so I'm not denying that you are if you have Jesus look this is this this I'll show you because you're in a cult okay and you don't know all right I'm not a cold yes you are when they had wait this is acts 4 7 acts 4 7 when they had placed him in the center they began to inquire by what power or in what name have you done this then Peter filled with the Holy Spirit said to them rulers and elders of the people we aren't great etc etc etc but that by the name of Jesus Christ whom you crucified by this name this man stands before you in good health so in the name of Christ as a phrase you use to evoke the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ now did Jesus tell you the formula did he tell you the formula to get baptized in did he he told that 11 at the time there were 11 because Judas had committed suicide there was 11 did he it's not I'm not asking that did he give the the formula that he wanted people to be baptized in did Jesus himself do that yes where Oh Matthew the last chapter before he raised up he told the disciples to go and baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit do you do that and they did not preach they did not teach they did not do anything for 10 days until they received the Spirit of God the Holy gotcha gotcha gotcha gotcha did they do that did they back do they have to do you baptize in the name of the Father Son Holy Spirit like Jesus said to do okay what is the name of the Father no you're not listening in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit that's the question that what's why don't you know the name don't you know the name of God are you serious you don't know exactly the name is Jesus no it's not he told the name of God the name of God the name of God is Yahweh wait wait if they did not follow that then we should not follow the apostles because they did not follow a simple command from Jesus that's the last thing he told them okay and then you have the first thing they did when they received the Holy Spirit they baptized in the name of you're not listening you're not listening Moses is there in Exodus 3 14 God said to Moses because Moses says what's your name God said to Moses I am who I am that's Yahweh okay that's you shall say to the sons of Israel I am has sent me to you God further said to Moses thus you shall say to the sons of Israel the Lord as Yahweh the God of your fathers the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob has sent me to you this is my name forever this is my man my memorial name to all generations so I got a question for you what's the name of God Oh God has many names Yahweh Jehovah I am Jesus so so nice so the name that God says is his name but the one name hate the one name that is given under heaven for us salvation is Jesus it's in the Bible yeah I got that okay you say the name of God is Jesus when the name of God is Yahweh according to God himself God spoke I did not always not the name of God you're making it seem like I'm saying one is right the other zone it's both and whoa they're both the name of God then why don't you're like the Muslims like the Muslims claim to have the truth and yet the name of God doesn't appear among them so how come you don't do the same thing and say the name of God is Yahweh I yeah I agree with you with that the name of God is Yahweh the name of God is I am the name of God is Jesus and what Jesus is not that that's Jesus in Greek not Yahweh it's different is his name just Jesus God this is my name I think you're you're really I think I came and my father's name yeah in the name of it by this book by the authority yes no no you're changing it you change it doesn't support it no does not say authority it says in my words what the phrase means not the phrase wait in the context when he was talking he said I came in my father name and you do not accept me but if somebody else comes in their own name you will accept them but he's talking about a name he's not about he's not talking about like just authority see the problem here the problem here is here you're a oneness person you deny the Trinity you deny the true incarnation of Christ and you know I'm not a salvation entity the Bible denies the Trinity okay you deny the Trinity and you deny that the gospel you know what the gospel is Bible telling the Trinity I follow the gospel can you can you tell me what the gospel is define it for me tell me what it is the gospel that when Jesus Christ yes oh sorry I thought I cut out the other okay the gospel of the Bible is in the beginning Adam see therefore we all fall from the grace of God so in the New Testament that one God God is not a physical being he's invisible nobody can see God that invisible God the spirit the God is a spirit so the spirit of God made that's the gospel that's the gosh wait I'm not done in that really got 40 seconds left hurry up okay and in flesh God was manifested and died for our sin for our salvation that's the gospel okay um so you don't believe that you believe that I have to add your salvation work of baptism to what Jesus did so you deny the gospel okay wait what you deny hold on hold on hold on you don't understand baptism you don't know what it's for you don't know that Jesus was sprinkled I don't know why he was baptized you don't know stuff tell you what it is what I want you to do is call me back tomorrow cuz we're out of time okay oh wait call you back tomorrow let's discuss baptism get your best argument and we'll go and have people listen okay all right cuz hey man I appreciate talking to you Sam but we're out of time we gotta go all right have a good day all right hey folks sorry out of here and that's just the way it is I've talked to these guys hundreds and hundreds hundreds of times we'll be out of here I got to go and by God's grace back on there tomorrow hopefully we'll talk to him and you too God bless bye another program powered by the Truth Network