Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome to the show. Hope you're all going to have a good time today listening. It's a nice Monday, and what a day. Anyway, hey, just wanted to give you a call.

All you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I'm right here. Had a good discussion last night with some people in some chat room. I don't know whatever it was.

I was on today a little bit, and they're Muslims attacking Christianity. I have no patience with them, so I just said, look, you attack me in the slightest, and I'm gone. And they go, as long as you do this, as long as you do this, and I went, I'm gone.

And so, you know, I teach them that if they want to talk to me, they have to be respectful, because they're not. Anyway, so there you go. That was kind of interesting. So if you want to give me a call, like I said, 877-207-2276. Let's just jump on the phones.

Jesse from Las Vegas, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how's it going, Matt? Oh, it's going.

It's going. What do you got, man? So I have two questions. My first question was, I'm new into Christianity. I grew up Catholic, but I never really had kind of like a connection within the Catholic Church.

I was almost just kind of like forced by my parents to kind of be there. In the past couple of years, I kind of started attending. On and off, you know, I go to a Christian church here locally in Vegas. What kind of church is it? Because I want to make sure you're not jumping into a bad church.

Do you know what the name of it is? Yeah, it's called Central Church. Las Vegas Central Church. All right.

And Central Church. It's okay to be okay. It's okay to not be okay. I love that. That's a good, that's really good.

It makes me feel welcome right there. So let's see. Okay, so go ahead.

I'm looking to see what their staff is, if they have any women pastors or elders. So that's what I'm going to look at. So my thing is, I've been in sales entrepreneurship for over 10 years. And I kind of like, I have a hard time like being consistent, just because I'm really self aware of the things that I do. So I feel like once I start going to Bible study more often, once I start going to church consistently, I'm more aware and I feel more guilty when I do sin, which makes you know, kind of puts me in a bad mental place. Because I know I'm more aware and I feel more guilty towards those things.

So sometimes I'll like not go to church or not do Bible study for a couple of months. Because I have a hard time, you know, you know, facing the things that I know I shouldn't be doing, per se. And I feel like I've been kind of like on that cycle.

Because like, I kind of have that approach towards like fitness and sales and entrepreneurship. It's like, Oh, I'm making this mistake and I fixed it. But I feel like this is just like a whole different challenge for me, you know, I've been kind of like on that cycle. Well, okay, let's talk about this because it's important. Looks like you have some remnants of Catholicism, the curse of Catholicism, it's really a bad religion.

Okay, it is. And so, how do I say this? So if you are aware of your sin, and then you distance yourself from God, or studies because you don't feel worthy, and then you wait until you're feeling worthy before you go back to him, if that's what you're doing, then that's a sin. And the reason it's a sin and I know because I used to do the same thing until one day the light went on, I went, Oh, my goodness, you know, I do something wrong. And I just didn't feel close to God. So I wouldn't pray for a few days, I wouldn't started the Bible for a few because I wasn't worthy.

And when I felt worthy, I'd come back and do that. And then one day, I realized that was sin. And the reason it was because I was trying to make myself feel worthy to be in God's presence.

And I'm not going to be worthy to be his presence and neither are you. That's why we have Jesus. And when we said we feel distance, we go to Jesus. When we don't feel worthy, we go to Jesus. When we are doing fine, we go to Jesus. When we're not doing fine, we go to Jesus. Don't stop yourself from going to a study. And if you've blown it, and you feel guilty, well, good, I'm glad you feel guilty.

I am. That's a sign of life in you, the Holy Spirit in you. But he doesn't want you to stop going to church and stop all that.

He wants you to go there and get fed and be in the presence of the Lord and just picture him as, you know, sitting on two rocks back then. And you're talking to him, and you tell him what you've done, and he just puts his arm around you. He just holds you. And you say, well, I've done something worse. And he just says, yeah, I know.

And he's still holding you. So that's what you have to have, okay? That's what you have to have. I don't know if that helps any, but okay. No, that makes sense.

No. That's what it is. Because you came out of Catholicism with its legalism, and you have to go to the priest, and you have to get the sacraments and get grace re-infused in your soul because of venial sin, and you have to do the penance, you have to do the indulgences, you know, all this idiocy. And so it's ingrained in you. And, you know, Jesus says, come to me, all who are heavy laden, and I'll give you rest.

Matthew 11, 28, he does that. So you need to trust in him. And I'm not, you know, pointing fingers at you, like, dude, you need to trust him. It's, man, I've been there. And even if someone is knowledgeable, if I could dare say that is me, you know, after studying all these decades, was guilty of that.

I'm like, man, how could I have been so stupid? And so, you know, when I blow it, I talk to him anyway. Don't feel worthy, right?

Have my mistakes, let's just put them in generic terms. I go talk to him anyway, even though I know I'm not worthy, and certainly don't feel like it. Because he's always there, he'll never leave us or forsake us, okay? All right?

Right. No, that makes total sense. And I think part of it is also because I'm like, kind of like new in my faith. I could say I'm like a new form of Christian. So I think, you know, I just kind of have to, you know, have faith that, you know, my faith, you know, that it's going to grow as like, you know, free in the bedroom and being part of, you know, the groups and stuff. Well, you see, there's a little something about people like you, all right, who feel this, who are aware of it, who struggle through it. It's a level of sensitivity that a good thing to have. And it can be a problem on one hand, but a blessing on the other.

And one of the blessings of it is you're going to be more empathetic to others and be better able to minister to them when God has trained you, as he's brought you through these things. So it's a good thing. Look at it that way. And it really is a good thing. Now, I got a question.

How did you find out about the radio show? Because you're in Vegas, and we're not there. I was I was scrolling through rumble rumble live streams. And, you know, I'm there. All right. Have you been to my website?

No, I actually just started listening to your show on Friday. Okay. Well, I'd like you to check out my website.

Okay. I've been working on it for, in October, it'll be 28 years. And it's got 5,000 articles on it. And I write theology and devotions and we have other people helping. And it's just a lot there. And I'm autistic. So it's a deficit.

But in this case, it's an advantage. Because I write, I just get right to the point when I write not these long things. What does it say? Here's the answer. That kind of thing. So I know. Okay. Check it out. Carm dot org.

C a r m dot o r g. Carm dot org. Okay. We'll do. We'll check it out. All right. Check it out. And let me know. There's a lot of information about Catholicism.

I need to write a whole section on what it means to heal from spiritual abuse, like the Catholic Church, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses and things like that. It's another thing I got to do. Okay. Does that help, ma'am? Sounds good. I'd definitely appreciate it, Matt. Hey, sure, Matt. Call any time. Seriously, just call and see what you know.

Just let me know. All right. Of course. Thank you. All right, man. God bless. Okay. That's cool. Pray for Jesse that the enemy won't hinder him.

Pray that the Lord will bless him greatly because he needs that. And you know, that's a good thing. So there you go. Hey, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Juanita. There we go.

From Michigan, I think. Welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, Matt.

Thank you. Yeah, I agree and prayer with you for Jesse from Las Vegas. I think one of the things myself being raised in Catholicism, and I can look back on it and, you know, guilt is certainly in the playbook of Satan, and it's one of the things I think that they really promote. And it makes me think of the Lord's Prayer. I think all we need to do is to ask for forgiveness. You know, it says, forgive us our trespasses and if we ask forgiveness, but the rest of it says, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. So I think if we pray the Lord's Prayer, we can kind of get ourselves straight. But what I'm calling about, Matt, is last time I talked, or one time I talked, or I heard you had mentioned you were working on a paper or a presentation. I'm a non-Trinitarian. I don't know if you remember me from Michigan, but you were working on a paper or a presentation and that I was helping you with it. I was wondering if it's completed or what it's about or when it'll be available or do you need more material? Just what was that all about?

If you can share. Yeah, you're helping in the fact of you're a Unitarian and a non-Christian. No, not a Unitarian.

A non-Trinitarian. I'm not a Unitarian. Okay, then let me ask you, do you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh?

No. Okay, then you're not a Christian. Jesus Christ is the word of God that became flesh. That's what the scripture says.

Well, that doesn't make sense to say that, and I'll tell you why. Because it's the word was God. So was the word impersonal or personal before it became flesh? Would you look that up in your John 1-1?

I'm curious what your inner linear says. I just asked you a question. So was the word that became flesh, was it impersonal before it became flesh or was it impersonal or personal?

Which one was it? Was it self-aware? I'm not really sure what the word was before the Incarnation. I don't think any of us really know for sure.

Yes, we do. So here's a problem with your position. When we asked the question, was the word personal or impersonal? If the word itself is personal, then we have the basis of Jesus being God in flesh. If you say that the word is impersonal, because there's only two options, personal or impersonal. Either one.

There's no third option. If it's impersonal, you have a problem because it says the word was God. It doesn't say that. Then I will say that the word was personal. Let me explain. Because if it was God, then the impersonal was God. That doesn't make sense.

So it has to be that it was personal. So we'll get back to this after the break. Okay, hold on. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned.

Hopefully, this will be interesting. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, just dial 8772072276. All right, Juanita, are you still there?

Yeah, yes. So now you've changed your mind that now the word was personal? Well, without knowing your definition of personal, I had to choose one. So I chose personal, because, you know, Jesus refers to himself before his incarnation. He said the glory I had with you before the world began. And so because I had to choose one, and without knowing, may I ask your definition of personal and impersonal?

Sure. A person has self-awareness, awareness of others, can think and love, things like that, has a will. Okay, self-awareness. Yeah, I was not knowing before his incarnation that other than what he was, he was a word of God, and through him, the worlds were created, but he does make reference to himself before his incarnation.

So I would have to say personal. Okay, then it says that the word, that's Jesus beforehand, was God. So he's God.

No, not really. In the beginning was the word, you say that's the personal, pre-incarnate Christ, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Well, I asked you if you would look that up in your inner linear for me, because I'm curious what your inner linear says. Well, I can read it to you. I can pronounce the Greek for you if you want, and read it to you, translate it.

Right, if you would read it from your inner linear. Sure. It says, in beginning was the word. Okay, now I'll read the second section. It says, and the word was God. That's the word, the God, literally. And then it says the second part, and the word, and the word was God. And my inner linear says, and God was the word.

You had asked me about that before, and I get that from Sonderfeld, so I have a little bit of a question mark about John 1. But I'm looking at the Greek. Okay. Well, I'm looking at the Greek too. Well, I'm looking at it in the USB S5, and this one says, and God was the word. That's fine. And the Septuagint that says, and God was the word. Right.

That's no problem. So we've got a couple. We have two that say, and God was the word. So what I have a problem with is that we, like it says, God is light. You know, we can't say light is God. We can't turn it around. So if it says, and God was the word, what English rule or what rule says that we can turn that and say the word was God?

If it says God was the word, I have a problem with it being changed to, you know, the word was God, when it says God is the word. So I think we have to kind of shelf that one, as far as I'm concerned. No, no, we don't. But wait, what I called, okay, what I called for, though, was my question. Hold on a sec. Hold on a sec.

Hold on a sec. Look, what it says, and it says in the English, the word was God, has to do with what's called the nominative, and then the predicate nominative, and various things like this. And that's why the translators do it that way, the word was God. In the Greek, you can say the God was word, or that's fine, because it literally says, in the Greek, it says, and the word was God, and that's what it was saying.

I'm looking at it. When I go to different ones in the Greek, it says, and God was the word. And I'm looking at the Greek, okay, and there's another one.

USB-S5, the SBL-GNT, both say theos and halagas, God was the word. So it doesn't make any difference, because both of what's called the nominative. The nominative is the subject. So it's the subject, nominative. They have nominative, genitive, dative, and accusative. Nominative is the subject, genitive, social position, dative is the indirect object, and accusative is the direct object.

So what these both are, are the nominative case. And so the translators do… A predicate nominative cannot, in relation, when we're talking about God, cannot be inverted. When we say, you know, because we're talking about God here, okay? Why does every translation… When we say God is light, or God is love… Why does every translation… I'm sorry, what was that? Why does every translation say, and the word was God?

I'll tell you why. You just told me, you just read one that said, God, the word, that God was the word. And I have the Zondervan, parallel New Testament in Greek and English, which says God was the word.

And I'm sure if we search longer, we'll find a couple other ones that do. Now, Trinitarianism… Let me explain. Hold on, stop for a second, please. Okay, I'm trying to correct you, and you're not willing to be corrected. I'm going to explain to you why it's done that way.

I'm going to explain it to you. It says, and I'm looking straight at the Greek now, knowing they're linear. In the beginning was the word, and the word, this is now it, the word is in the nominative.

It's now taking the place of this subject. The word was with God, and that says God was the word. You can do it, God was the word, but you can also do it as the word was God, because of its nominative sense that's used in the previous section of the verse. That's why it says the word was with God, that's the top, that's the subject.

They're both in the nominative case. I have an idea. How much Greek have you had? How much Greek have you studied?

I went to St. John's Seminary here in Plymouth, Michigan. How much Greek have you had? Can I get back to my… Yes, after we answer the question.

How much Greek have you had? What if I said years and years? Does it make any difference to what we're talking about here?

Then I would test it. Can you parse a me? Listen. This is one of the first things you learn in beginning Greek, so you don't know. All right, so if it says, let's go with your ways.

I'm going to show you something. If it says God was the word, then is it the case that God was the word? Yes. Well, then the word became flesh.

Yes. Then God was the word. The word, which is God, became flesh. Jesus is God in flesh. No, Jesus is the word of God in flesh. No, you said the word is personal, and the Bible says the word was with God, and it says God was the word, which means he's personal. Okay, you want to go with God is the word? And God's word became flesh. God didn't become flesh.

The word of God became flesh. That's what the Bible says. No, it's not.

Will you answer my question? You're not teaching the truth because you're a false teacher. You're a false convert. Okay, I'm not trying to teach anything.

You're provoking me into this. I didn't want it. I called with a question.

My question is that you said you were working on a paper. I don't have that ready. We have a break. Hold on. Okay, I'm sorry. It's bad timing. You folks will be right back after this break. You know, unbelievers are so hard to get through, too.

It's like this all the time with all of them. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All righty, welcome back to the show. Let's get back with Juanita.

Go ahead, Juanita. You're on the air. Okay, so you said you were working on with a paper presentation or something. I was wondering, I think you just quickly said it wasn't completed. Or could you share what it's about or when it'll be available? Or do you need more material, like I said?

Or what can I expect? I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly. Well, you said you were keeping a record on me and that I was feeding you materials for this next project that you were working on.

And I was just wondering what it was or what form it's going to take or just what it was about. Yes, when I talk to people like you, no disrespect, Matt, but when I do, I have my notes open, like my right now is open because you called outlines on Unitarianism and I have 33 pages of material, okay? And what I do is I collect information. I collect what the unbelievers say and then I respond to them in my notes and I correct them in my notes. And so, for example, the John 1-1 thing, and when you have a predicate namata, then both are in the nominative case. The one with the definite article is a subject.

So the word was God is the proper translation. And see, it's just a basic note, okay? That's how it should be. So I just put things like that in my notes. And then when I start doing my videos, which I'm prepping up to do some more video work, then I'll be putting things out like that, exposing the errors that you and others put.

All right. And you indicated one time that you would or could arrange for us to meet or talk or to exchange ideas on a neutral platform. And I suggested the Disciples of Yahweh and Christ. I sent you my email address that you asked for, trinitytruthseekers at gmail.com.

And I was wondering, you know, because I would really like to be on a platform where I'm not bullied or called names or have an opportunity to have people. Hold on. You are not a Christian.

And I will say that in any format. I'll just say you're not a Christian. If they penalize me for that, then we don't have a conversation.

I mean, it's a fact. And you're coming to that conclusion because I'm a non-trinitarian? Because you deny that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. You are not a Christian. Because I'm a non-trinitarian, you say I'm not a Christian. No, you don't understand.

You don't understand what you're saying. You don't have to be a Trinitarian to be a Christian. People can be non-trinitarian in their ignorance. When you said you're not a Trinitarian, I jumped immediately over to the deity of Christ. Because people cannot understand the trinity and just not be in there denying it openly.

I went straight over to about Jesus. You openly deny Jesus as God in flesh. Therefore, you are going to die in your sins.

I want you to be alive in Christ. What? So, if I can repeat. So what you're saying is, if you're a non-trinitarian, you don't believe that I'm saved? Did you not hear what I said? Did you not hear what I said? No, it was confusing. No, you were confusing. You didn't listen.

Could you simplify it a little bit? Yes, I'll say it again, okay? If you deny Jesus as God in flesh, you're not a Christian. If you don't believe in the trinity, it doesn't mean you're not a Christian. It could be the case that you just don't understand it.

It's a certain possibility. Okay, so there are two things then you're asking. So you're saying, number one, you can deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, which you are not saved. Or number two, you can just deny the trinity, but you could be saved.

No, no, no. You're not hearing me. People who don't accept the trinity are not necessarily not Christians. They may not understand it properly, and once taught, then they can become believers in it. But if you openly deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then you are not a Christian.

I will die on that hill. You are not a Christian. I'm just telling you. And if we're having a discussion in some neutral format, and I say, no, you're not a Christian. And they say, you can't say that. I'll say, then I'm gone. Oh, no, I don't mind that you say it. I just want an opportunity to be able to really fairly interchange with you. So no, I deny that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Jesus is the Word of God in the flesh. Now, and I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, Matt. You can get on with.

Re-email me because I rebuilt my computer about three, four weeks ago. So re-email me this stuff with them. And if they don't treat me properly, you know, they because I've been in many formats.

And if they say you are not allowed to say this or that or that, I go, I'm done. I just don't do it. Oh, I don't. I don't mind.

You're doing if you were hurting my feelings, that would be my ego that it would be hurting. And I really I, first of all, consider the source and the lack of understanding, you know, between us. So it's Trinity Truth Seeker at gmail dot com. I'm afraid I get maybe mixed up in all of your emails.

You must get thousands maybe for something I figured. So I just wanted to kind of give you a call back. I do appreciate your time and your patience with me.

Thank you, Matt. Okay. All right. All right. We'll talk to you later then. Okay. All right. Pray for her. And yeah, I'll have a discussion with her.

But she does not know what she's doing. And you know, what's really interesting is more and more people are denying who Christ is. And Jesus said this would happen.

He prophesied the apostasy. Wow. Anyway, let's get to Luke from Washington. Luke, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How are you? Hi. I'm okay. How are you? Good.

I accept the 17. Acts. Acts 17 27. All right.

That they would seek God if perhaps they might grow up for him and find him, though he's not far from each one of us. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry.

These words are speaking for free will because we have a free will to accept Christ and reject Christ. They're using this word. Okay. So how do you explain that? Okay. I'm sorry. You're hard to understand. But what's your question? Go ahead.

I'm sorry. So this is a free will question. Free will. What? Free will question.

Like 27. And they would seek God. So we have ability to seek God. And if perhaps they might grow up for him and find him. Okay. So that means we have a will.

We can find him. We don't know. We have a free will. People who believe in free will, they use this word to clarify their voice. How do you explain that?

Well, we Calvinists believe in free will also. But what's the context? The context is Paul talking on Mars Hill. And he's talking to a bunch of unbelievers out there. And he's talking about the idol to an unknown God. He quotes a pagan philosopher. He's speaking on their level. And if you grow up for God, you'll find him. He's just being generic.

Okay. Paul did write also that God has to grant that you believe. So he knows that because that's what he says in Philippians 1 29. So he's talking generically here because he knows the power of the word. He knows the power of the truth. And he knows that God's the sovereign King who's in control. And even though Paul is brilliant and is magnificently understanding of God's theology, he didn't understand any more than most any brilliant scholar would understand. How those things of God work behind the scenes.

So what he's doing is simply speaking properly to a group of people. He's on the Areopagus. He says, look, men of Athens, I observed that you're very religious in all respects. For a while, I was passing through, you know, I see this, this, uh, altar to an unknown God. So now he starts talking about this, the God who made the world and all the things in it, the Lord in the heaven, the temples without hands. He's the one you're talking about here, the unknown God.

Well, obviously there's a problem in all kinds of respect because they have money, many, many, many gods. Why doesn't Paul say all those gods are false? What he does is he uses what they know in their circumstance, according to their understanding, and then uses it to point to the true and living God. And that's what he's doing for those who would grope for God. They feel like they're groping for God, but he's pointing them to Jesus. He's not wasting the time with getting into a technical discussion about whether or not they're elect, non-elect, predestined, not predestined, where they have free will, libertarian or, um, capitalist or what. He's simply giving out the message of truth. And those who have ears to hear will hear.

That's what he's doing there. Okay. So, um, uh, like I said last time, uh, is there any way we can, you can come by the Indian group to explain this, we will, palazianism to me, palazianism tomorrow. We had a break coming up. We're going to break, but yes, we can. Hold on. We'll talk about it after the break. Okay. Hey, if you want to give me a call eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six right now, it's Matt slick live.

Taking a call at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Luke. Luke, welcome you on here. Yeah, I know, um, like I said before, uh, there you can come to our room and we've started a new room. We're going to answer some of the questions they have.

They were making fun. Look, you're hard to understand. It's, it's, it's frustrating to, to, uh, only get part of the words, trying to figure out what you're saying. It's very frequent that when you call, there's a, uh, a connection problem. So, you know, wherever, wherever, hold on, hold on.

Wherever it is that when you call, you have a good connection, just be there. Okay. But I can do these things on Mondays and Tuesdays and maybe Friday nights. So if they're interested in doing a room where they know I'm going to come in and deal with them and do questions, they can set it up and that's fine.

And then I'll, you know, we'd arrange it ahead of time and I'll show up. Okay. So, uh, are you available next week? Yes. Monday, Tuesdays and Fridays next week are open. Okay.

What kind? Well, let's try 9 PM Eastern time. Okay.

Okay. So I backstabbed you a new room. Are you able to see that room?

I don't understand the question. You backchannel me in my room. Can I see the room?

You don't say what room it is. So I see your back channel. I see your back.

I see your back channel. When you give me links, it does not work because I'm, I don't use club house. I use club deck. The links go to the phone. This doesn't work. I need to know the room name. Then I search for it and then I go in. Okay.

The room name is a reformed apologist. Okay. So that's what I would have to do.

Go look for it at that time. Okay. All right. So I sent that information to go ahead. Okay.

Uh, so thanks for the information. Okay. All right. All right. So we need to fix the date. And I know the time, Monday, Friday. You talk to them. See what good, what day is good.

Monday, Tuesday, or Friday. Okay. All right.

You find out which one is good, where they will agree to meet, and they can answer their, you know, ask the most difficult questions. Okay. All right.

So you need to take it. You need to teach them about, uh, about, uh, I can't understand you. I can't understand you. Okay.

So, um, yeah, it's always a problem we've had because my hearing isn't that good. Your accent's pretty thick and your connection goes in and out and I miss one or two words. Okay. So back channel me and as long as it's all arranged. Okay. And we'll work it out. All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot.

Appreciate it. All right. Let's get on the phone with Eric from Charlotte. Eric, welcome. You're on the phone.

All right. Uh, my brother from my different mother. I love you so much.

We got the same father. We got the same, thank you so much for your ministry. Listen, um, there's a, Anita always fascinates me when she calls and I, you know, iron sharpens iron and if I would love for you to ask her a question, um, she sometimes has a disconnect. You clearly were saying to her being, not being a Trinitarian does not, not make you a Christian or does not make you a non-Christian rather. And for some reason she, she got it and then she lost it. And then you said, but denying Jesus as God does make you a non-Christian and I wish she would pay close attention to your words, but she seems to jump back and forth in her logical thinking. She's really good.

She's patient, calm, nice, but I need to just, just check yourself. He's, he's really trying to help you by telling you not being a Trinitarian does not make you a non-Christian. You can be a Christian without believing in or acknowledging or knowing the Trinity, but you cannot be a Christian if you're denying Jesus as God.

Now, one thing if you would, but if you continue to reject the Trinity, then I wouldn't call your brother or sister in Christ. Okay. Right. After knowing now, yes. Now Anita is really distorting it, but here's a question, two things. Number one, if there's any way that you could, if you could just ask her, does she believe the spirit of God is God? Okay. That's one question.

I would love to see how she responded. The second part, because the Holy Spirit is clearly God, but I have these book notes and this may or may not help you. You can correct me if I'm wrong in categorizing these bookmarks the way I do, but one of the, two of the bookmarks, one of the two bookmarks I want to share is the bookmarks which I label, all aspects of God are God. Any aspect of God, anything that's of God and his nature that's eternal, it is literally him in the same way.

Well, we've got to be careful. That's not necessarily the case. Okay. I've got to tell you because the love of God, that love is not the same thing. As God, it's an attribute of his essence and his nature. So the patience of God, for example, patience is not God.

Patience is an action that emanates out of God. So you've got to be careful how you word that, but I know what you're getting at. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Well, well, if the scripture says God is love. Now I'm not talking about patience. Let's stick with the word love. If we were referring to who he is, his being is actually, it's a personal being that is also love.

Now I know what we're talking about, the love of God, but there is also God is love. And I look at those as a distinction. Are you not seeing those as the slight distinction at all? Yeah. Yeah, and then we get into some, there's some other ways of tangents to get into about that stuff.

You know, I know what you're asking, but it can get involved. Okay. I understand that. I understand that.

But part of the reason where I'm going, this is where I'm going with that. I tell people the sun is light, but there's more to the sun than light. The sun is heat, but there's more to the sun than just heat. You can't separate the sun from his light. You can't separate the sun from his heat. The heat and the light have been entirely with God.

I got you. Yeah. The problem here is then in discussions, it's the relationship between the essence and the properties or the emanation.

And what degree is the emanation or representative of the essence? And then you have to get into degrees of interpretations of the relationship. And this is where the problem comes in.

That's why I stay away from those. Well, but that's the, that's what, but that's what we're at least trying to give a mindset to people of when they use this word Trinity, because they're not understanding that the father, the word, and the spirit, they are God, but there's a distinction. Right, right. So, but I'm saying, how is it? Yeah, I'm with you. I got it.

Uh huh. So, so, so I'm trying to say, I never separate when we're talking about the word and she asked you earlier about a very critical verse a few weeks ago. And I wish you had dealt with, dealt with her question, which is Psalm 33 verse six. And it says, by the word of God, the heavens were made. I, the people, I, the question could be asked, where is the word of God in the Old Testament?

Because knowing John one, one and beginning was the word that word was with, with, with God, but that word was also God. We're in the Old Testament. The best word that I seen that sort of correlates with this in the New Testament is the word Dabbar. And that word, if you look it up throughout the Old Testament, it's personal. That's telling me there is Jesus in the Old Testament as word. And just as we see the him as word in the New Testament, we see him in the Old Testament, but that word Dabbar, if you ever get a chance, look up these references in the Old Testament. It's an amazingly beautiful and consistent thing.

There is Jesus, the word of God in the Old Testament, because anything is, anything about God himself personally, personally about God is him when it speaks of the hand of God, the word of God, the power of God. I got you, brother. I got you.

Oh, trust me. I've debated this, but where's the error in what I just said, if you don't mind. Well, it's not an issue of an error in the saying that you're just going, yeah, that's right.

That's right. But they have their ways of coming back. I like to do things that are more precise and more direct. And I have those that they have trouble understanding. In fact, when I was debating a guy last week who didn't believe in the Trinity and the deity of Christ, and didn't believe in the Trinity, and I asked him some tough questions and he was stumped, but then he changed his view and stuff like that and tried to get around stuff. It's easy to beat them. It's not that beating is the goal. It's easy to defeat their arguments.

That's it. But they just don't want to believe because they're given over to the lie, like Jesus is not God. Of course he is. The Bible clearly says it and she's just denying it and others deny the Trinity. But even when, get this, just so you know, because I got a big kick out of it. I was talking to this guy. We're having this debate and he was attacking the Trinity and I had my Trinity chart up. And I even said, this is how the Trinity's arrived at. I actually said it. This is how. We went through it a little bit. I said, this is how it's done.

And the host left that up for 10 minutes. And about five, six, seven minutes into our discussion, I said, so how is the Trinity arrived at? And he goes through philosophy. I said, and he answers right there. They just refuse to believe. They refuse because they're more committed to their ideology than they are to the truth. Well, one thing is that that's true. They refuse because they're blinded by, of course, the enemy.

But I believe there are some who are open to a change if they can get some sort of thing that would give them a slight bridge. And that's all I try to do for those whose hearts are sensitive to saying, okay, I'm willing to believe if you can prove it. And I said, well, God isn't limited to just, you know, it's not like, I'm sorry, I'm not blasting, but he's not a one trick pony.

He has different ways in which his truth can come forth so that we can see it. But one thing I'm trying to not take your time, but this is so important to me and I've delayed for a long time to talk to you about this. We've got one minute, buddy.

We've got one minute. So in that one minute, Christ is the wisdom of God. He is the power of God.

He is the word of God. These are personal. These are actual personal.

They're not non-personal. It is him. And he is telling you, this is who I am. I am love. I am this. I am that. He, you can't distinguish what he calls himself from himself.

It is him. And as long as he's been around those aspects is the word I'm going to use for now. I can use another word, but those things are him. You can't separate those aspects that are truly personal of him from him. Any more than you can separate the light from the sun, the heat from the sun.

It's the sun. There's a distinction. Brother, you're right, brother.

But in logic, the relationship between the essence and the properties, if someone knows a little bit, then they can argue in circles and it's hard to get them out. So, but you're on the right track, brother. You're on the right track.

Separate the properties. We're going to go. There's the music, brother. All right. There's the music, Eric. Well, God bless, brother.

All right, man. Hey, folks. I hope you enjoyed this show. That was an interesting show for Monday. One person said, hey, great show. Vermatic Monday.

I liked it. Hey, may the Lord bless you by his grace. I'm back on there tomorrow. And hopefully we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening. God bless.