The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.
Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for listening. And let's see, today is July 19th, 2023.
So praise God for that. And we're making it through the century, aren't we? Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.
And the last four digits spell C-A-R-M on your phone. And I just want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us. All you got to do is go to KARM.org forward slash donate and everything it needs right there. We just ask $5 a month.
Not very much, but it does help. And if we get enough people to do that, then we should be fine. Okay, let's see.
And also, we are on rumble forward slash Matt Slick live, all one word. And you can watch and watch me, you know, it's a big deal, you can watch. And you can also, the good part, though, is that you can participate in the chat. There's a lot of good people there, and we've kind of become friends over the years. And you can just jump right in and see how things are going if you like that idea. Oh, man, I got a yawn. Oh, boy, sorry about that.
I always do that when I wonder how many people are driving in their cars or whatever, yawning, going, don't do that, and then laughing. So, hey, look, we have five open lines. Why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. And if you want, you can send me a radio question or comment.
That's easy to do. All you got to do is just send it to info at karm.org, info at karm, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And we can, you know, I can read them over the air and check it out, or I do that. All right, let's see, looking at comments coming in, nothing, sometimes it gets slow. And let me just jump right in. I want to do this and get into the questions that people send in.
Let's try this one. What do I do when I can't trust my parents after spiritual betrayal? Then you pray for them, and you ask God to work through them, and you do your best to forgive them. And then you focus on the Lord Jesus Christ, remember him, and you move forward. And, you know, everybody's going to betray you one way or another. And how you handle it is a sign of maturity, both spiritually and in the just emotional sense.
You need to be able to not take it so deeply that it ruins your life or hinders you. You have to learn how to handle those things. Not always easy to do. I mean, it's just not always easy to do. But that's what we're supposed to do. And like I said, doing is not easy, but that's the idea.
You pray, and you ask Jesus to help you to move forward in that, and that's what you do. All right. Okay, ladies.
Oh, man, I got a couple of yawns just hitting me all of a sudden. Let's try this question. Hi, Matt, I'm listening to you dealing with an air shoe of water and a wine. Love your comparison on the Creation Week.
I might suggest a couple more similarities. A miracle started with the stone jars of the earth. They were empty, formless, and void.
Ooh, I like that. And the water was added to each. The six waters were divided.
Each of the six waters were divided. Hmm, okay. And the head waiter said it was the best.
He saw that it was good. Yeah, there's a lot of parallels there I should do. Oh, excuse me, they're yawned.
Oh, man, another analysis for that. I hadn't, I've not been yawning all day. I think what it is is because I take these deep breaths to talk, you know, and get these things out, and I think that just caused my body to not get enough oxygen. As my wife would say, maybe you're talking too much. So she does say I have the gift of gab, though.
Most guys don't, but I guess I do. All right. Yeah, let's see. So Miles has a great spiritual question today, hoping Colin or you could email me or we'll find out.
All right. Why don't we just jump on the air with Mike from Winston-Salem. Mike, welcome. You're on the air.
Hey, Matt. It's been a while since I've talked to you. And I'll probably be talking to you sometime in the future because I'm doing a study on Revelation and I'm just now getting into it, but I'll probably have a million and one questions for you. Sure. But the question I have today has nothing to do with that. It has to do with, and it was a question I think it was asked last week, and I'm not sure how you answered it, but it was, I think you had a gentleman call that asked and said, can you be a Democrat and be a Christian? And by being a Democrat, I mean vote Democrat. I mean, can you vote Democrat and be a Christian?
Yeah, you can. Voting for the wrong party doesn't make you non-Christian. And the Republicans aren't any much, any better.
So yeah, you can be a Christian and do that, you can be Christian and make a lot of mistakes. You know, you want to vote for socialists and things like that, you don't. But it's what it is, you know, Democratic party's evil. I know that.
Well, that's what I mean. And if you're voting for evil, how can you be, because what, they support abortion up to and including the day of delivery. They support, as a matter of fact, I mean, in California, they kill the bill to make it a crime for trafficking.
And you know what I mean by trafficking, making a very serious offense. I mean, when you oppose good things, or you favor evil, that would be like being a Jew and being a Nazi. Although I think there were Jews that were probably Nazis. I think there were, as a matter of fact. But yeah.
Yeah, I'm with you. It's a, I'm perplexed by anybody who claims to be a Christian and votes Democrat, and I ask them questions. And a lot of times they're very ignorant of stuff.
They just believe whatever lies the left media is telling them, and they don't think. And then when you start bringing this stuff up, they get uncomfortable. So that's a good sign that they get uncomfortable, but I'm with you. It's a problem. But technically, can you? Yeah, you can. You can be ignorant of certain things in the Democratic party.
So yeah, it can happen. And I think you're right about the Republicans, except I think they're mostly stupid, except some of the people at the top are just, they're like the Democrats, they want power. And they like their positions and like, I guess, like the Pharisees, they like to be called the rabbi, except in this case, like to be called Senator, Congressman, this kind of stuff. But at least they don't support, at least they oppose object evil. There are some, yeah, the Democratic party, the Republicans party, they say it, but they're not really doing much to back it up. The Democratic party does support evil, flat out. It's its position. It's the party of evil.
And the Republicans, I guess, will be the party of milk toast rhinos, I guess you could say. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But anyway, and I believe the gentleman that called in, and by the way, I love your position on hyphenated Americans and hyphenated Christians, especially hyphenated Christians.
I don't think we need to be hyphenated at all, but, um, I believe the gentleman that called in last week as I caught the call, I believe he said he was, he was, uh, a black gentleman. Uh, he needs to look at the history of the Democrat party because it ain't pretty. No, it's not.
It ain't pretty at all. No, the Democratic party, it's a party of the KKK, it was close, pro-slavery. You had the documentation. Anybody who does the research in the history of the Democratic party, it'll take you five minutes or less, and you can find stuff. The Democratic party is just full of stuff that what it does, it throws mud at everybody else.
Say how bad you are at those things, but that's what the Democratic party actually, uh, taught and defended and promoted the KKK and socialism and, uh, denying blacks rights and things like that and women's rights. This is a fact in history, you know, they're just full of, they're just liars. They're just, the Democratic party is just full of liars. They're evil. Yeah, they are.
Evil liars. Okay. All right, Matt.
And I'll be calling you probably sometime in the future as I get into my studies on the book of Revelation. Yeah. All right. Thanks, Matt. All right. Appreciate it, man. All right.
Bye. Yeah, folks, I could right now. We've got a caller waiting and I don't want to bore the crud out of you, but I could read. Uh, if you guys call me, if anyone asks me to do it, I'll read. It takes about three, four minutes to read the history of the Democratic party.
And I'm not saying the Republicans are squeaky clean, but at least they haven't stood for the evils that the Democratic party had. And, and, uh, like the caller said, you know, why do people say I'm a black American? Well, that you're just saying, it seems to me, you're just identifying yourself. yourself on racist, uh, grounds. Isn't that what racism is? So if someone identifies themselves as, as a black American, what if I said, Hey, I'm a white American. Well, you're racist. I am. And, you know, it's just, we're Americans.
That's all just call yourself an American, speak the same language and, uh, you know, just have people of integrity, just be, just be hard workers and people of integrity. That's what we all want. That's what it should be. Let's get to Bob for Louisiana. Bob. Welcome. You're on the air.
Uh, thank you, Matt. I spoke to you last week and you said that the Unitarians were coming up with better questions. Yeah.
More sophisticated questions. They're still wrong, but they are coming up with, with better stuff. I mean, when they get their rears handed to them repeatedly, they try and do new things.
And so the rears still get handed to them. Just takes a little bit more work. That's all. Well, if you have time, I think we're fixing to come up on a break pretty soon. Yeah.
In two minutes. Because what do you got? Unitarian. Yeah. I'm yeah. I'm a Unitarian.
I'm Bob the builder. I know who you are. Yeah. Yeah.
You know who I are. Mm hmm. And, uh, and I'm looking at Acts chapter 17, no chapter three today, chapter three verse 17.
Okay. It says some people acted in ignorance and they said their rulers did also. And you are right about this democratic party. I have to agree with you that they act in ignorance.
And I believe they may be evil, but I cannot disagree with that. But the things which God announced beforehand, by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer, he has thus fulfilled. That's verse 18.
Mm hmm. In verse 19. It says, therefore, repent. Do you have a question?
And return. Yeah. I'm getting to the question. Okay. I don't know if you're trying to preach your heresy, but go ahead.
No. I'm going to get to the question and then I'm going, I don't think I preach heresy, but that's another story. You do.
You do. In order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. That's the verse 19, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Yeah. Now, Peter definitely doesn't believe that the Lord has come, does he? What verse are you trying to draw this from? Verse 19.
3 19. Chapter 3. Repent. Repent. Chapter 3 19.
You may be wiped out in order that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of our Lord. Yeah. We've got a break coming up.
Nothing in there says that Peter didn't believe, which doesn't make any sense what you're saying. So hold on. We've got a break. Okay. And folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, four open lines, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Everybody welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with Bob. All right, Bob.
You're back on here. Well, thank you, and that's the number I dialed, and I did get Matt Slick, yeah, and in Acts chapter 3, we just looked at 19, and I really think 20 should have been included in it because in 20 it says that he may send Jesus the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from ancient times, and it goes on. But my question is, why do people today believe Jesus has already been sent from heaven and that he's in them?
I mean, I just don't see where they get that idea. He said he was sent by the Father, and he came from the Father out of heaven, right? So we're waiting that he may send Jesus. Jesus said in John 6.38, I've come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. So he was sent from heaven, John 6.38, okay? But this is Acts chapter 3, after he's just gone into heaven. Yeah, I got you.
But you asked. And now Peter, alright, but now Peter is waiting for him to come again. Yeah, that's right, because Jesus is going to come back a second time. That's right. Or he's going to return, I should say.
Yeah. But why do people think that he's already come back, and that these people think Jesus is living in them, Matt? Okay, so some people are preterists, and they hold to the idea that Jesus came back in 70 A.D., and that just doesn't work. But Jesus himself, excuse me, and I'll read it to you, hold on, I'm going to cough.
There we go. Because people believe what Jesus said. He said, if anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.
Okay? Yeah, that's right. But it evidently hasn't happened yet, because Peter is preaching this to people in real time, you know? Yes, but it also says in Colossians 1, 27, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of his mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. So he's saying in the present tense there. Which means what? That Christ is in us. Jesus is God in flesh. He indwells us, as he said he would do, that he will indwell you.
If you love me, he says, if you keep my word, my Father will love him, and we, the Father and he, will come and make their abode with him. That's what he's saying, that's what he's saying. And you think that's happened? You think that's happened?
Yes, I do. Because the Bible says in Colossians 1, 27, that Christ is in us. Okay?
What does that mean, though? Jesus, Jesus is in heaven, but Christ is in me. Is that what you're saying? Christ is the anointed one, alright?
You with me so far? Christ, Jesus, no, Jesus was anointed by God. Yes, he's the anointed one, yes. And Jesus has two distinct natures, divine nature and a human nature. By necessity the divine nature is everywhere. When God indwells us, and Jesus says that he and the Father will indwell us, that is a claim by Jesus of his deity.
Right there. But Peter didn't know it, Peter didn't know nothing about this, did he? Well, I don't, I'm not going to say what Peter did or did not know, because I'm quoting what Jesus said. What Jesus said, what you're ignoring, is that he and the Father would come and make their abode with him. So since you deny that Jesus is God, how is it then that Jesus can live in you?
A Christian, how is that possible? Jesus is in heaven with his Father, Matt. Okay, I got you, I got you. Okay, I'm going to repeat this to you, alright?
Jesus is in heaven with the Father. I got you, I understand that. Okay? Not a problem. Okay.
Alright? Jesus also said that if you keep his word, he and the Father will come and make their abode with you. That means they'll live in you, that's what it means to be an abode with, alright? So how does that work?
Okay. How does Jesus, along with the Father, live in you? There's only one spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, right?
Okay, I asked a specific question. How is it that the Father and the Son will live in you, will make their abode in a person? How is that possible? If it's not possible by that one spirit, it's not possible at all. Okay, so I'm asking you how this is possible, okay? I keep asking you and you can't answer it. The reason you can't answer it, I believe, is because you don't understand what the Word of God is, and you don't know who Christ is.
I know what the Spirit of God is. Okay, now listen, you don't think very critically, you don't think very clearly, you can't seem to hold two consecutive thoughts together that require logical conclusions. I'm being straight with you. You don't do a good job at this. You have diverted from what I've said several times. I ask you a specific question and you go someplace else. I bring you back to the issue, you go someplace else. I bring you back and you say something else.
So I'm going to do this again, I'm going to show you. Jesus said, if anyone loves Him, that means loves Jesus, and keeps His Word. He says, my Father will love Him and we, that means the Father and Jesus, will come to Him and make our abode with Him. Abode means that He's living in them. Now, how is it, here's the question, how is it that Jesus claims to also live in you along with the Father if Jesus is not God? How does that work?
The way I just told you. And how is it that Jesus Himself is living in us? The person of Jesus, how does that work? The person of Jesus is in heaven. Jesus says, my Father will love Him and the Father will live in us. Do you agree? The Father will live in us, is that right?
Yes. Okay, so that means He lives in us, so the Father will love Him, that's the Father who lives in us, and we will come to Him and make our abode. So that means the Father is living in you and Jesus is equating living in you with the Father. We, the Father and me, will come and will live in you. The Father lives in you, you would agree to that, and Jesus says He'll do it with the Father.
Now, we get back to the break, please focus during the break and answer how is it that Jesus, along with the Father, in the same way as the Father, lives in us. Okay, we'll be right back after these messages. Folks, if you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show, bottom of the hour, let's try it a little bit longer with Bob here. Are you still there?
Yes, sir. I'm here. How is it that Jesus can indwell people, from your perspective, how can He do that? Let's see, I read, if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, that has to be the key, that has to be the key. Okay, so Jesus said the Spirit will come and live in you, so now we have the Spirit living in you. We also have the Father living in you. Now we have Jesus living in you. Those are the scriptures we use to help support the doctrine of the Trinity.
Very simple. I don't support that, I don't support that though. Yeah, because you don't believe scripture. You believe what you think the scriptures teach.
So I've asked you a very specific question. Jesus said that He and the Father would come and live in you. Your mistake is that you don't understand who Christ is.
You deny Him. You think He's a created thing, just merely created with one nature. No, He has two natures. Jesus said, for example, I am thirsty.
No problem there. We know He's human. But He also said this. He said in Matthew 28, 20, teaching them all to observe, and He says, and I will be with you, I'll be with you always, even to the end of the age. So now what Jesus is saying, that He Himself will be with them, the disciples and the disciples of the disciples, throughout the end of the age.
He's going to be with them. How can He do that? How does He do that if He's not God in flesh? You see, if you just understand that Jesus has two natures, a divine nature and a human nature, then you don't have any problem. Then you can understand that He is ever-present in His divine nature. No problem.
And so He can now live in us. Hey, no problem at all. Problem solved, and we don't have to do any gymnastics like you have to do. Well, I just don't get it. Because you are not regenerate, because you're not a Christian.
That's why you don't get it. Jesus is in heaven in the temple, Matt. He is in heaven, and He said He will be with them always. How can He only be in heaven and also be with people?
How can He only be in heaven and also indwell people? You just deny Him. You deny who He is.
No. What does He do? He's the Son of God in heaven. What does the term Son of God mean? Mary gave birth to the Son of God.
Luke chapter 1. I got you. I got you. That's good. What does the phrase mean? God is His Father. Well, when you go to John 5.18, the commentary of John the apostle says that Jesus was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. But you know that don't work.
It does work, because that's what it says. Nobody is equal to God, according to Jesus. Then why did John the apostle say that that's what the phrase, calling God His own Father, make Himself equal to God?
See, there you go again, denying Scripture, because you submit it to your personal preferences and your ideas. Well, we'll have to talk about this. We can talk about this.
We have. You're an example of what not to do. That's why we'll talk to you publicly like this, because I want people to see what not to do. I'm trying to help you. They should not believe Jesus is in heaven waiting to come if they believe He's already here. So you assume He can only be in one place at a time. That's what you assume.
It's based on your assumption. I'm showing you that your assumption doesn't work, because He said He would indwell us in John 14.23. Paul said in Colossians 1.27 that Christ is in us. So we know Jesus is the right hand of the Father, because He ascended. We know that, that you go to Acts 7, 55-60.
It's true, but it's also true that He's living in us. What you do is you make the mistake of saying, here's this one verse, so I'm going to assume I understand what it means, and I'm going to deny what the other verses also say. I'm just going to interpret all other verses according to what I think it ultimately means. I show you your position is incorrect, and you continue to believe it. Your wrong position.
So you are lost. It's not me being mad at you, I'm not being judgmental, I'm informing you that if you were to die right now, believing what you do, you'll go to hell, because you deny the true and living Christ, the true and living God. I'm telling you, I'm warning you. I'm probably not going to die right now.
I don't want you to die right now. I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you were to do that, if that were to happen, you'd be eternally damned, because you're denying who Christ is. Jesus is the Son of God. What does the term Son of God mean?
We went over that a few minutes ago. People often assume the term Son of God means He's not God. I say, show me that in the Bible. Show me where it says Son of God means He's something less than God, a different nature than God. Show it to me.
And they can't. Jesus, I mean, Matt, Jesus said, I have not yet ascended to my Father. That's Jesus talking about himself. Yes.
A human being. Yeah, because the Trinity is true, it makes perfect sense. The Trinity has nothing to do with a human being. It does.
The Trinity has to do with Jesus ascending into heaven to be with God, in reference to God the Father. That's what's going on. Well, I'm waiting for Jesus to come back down on the mountain from which he went up into the cloud, Matt. Yeah, and I agree. He will do that. But you don't want that to happen. What I mean is... Why not? Because it'll be judgment and damnation for you. Well, I think it's going to be glorious. No.
I think it'll be wonderful. It's going to be damnation because you are denying the Son. And Jesus says those who deny the Son are also denying the Father, the Father who sent Him.
So you are denying that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. And so, therefore, you are lost, okay? And I'm informing you. And I ask you questions you can't answer.
And it's simple. Because I know your position, I know the Unitarian position, it's heretical, it's false teaching. And I know how to ask the right questions to expose the false teaching.
And here we go again. If Jesus is just a created thing, you can only be at one place at a time according to your position. How is it that he says, along with the Father, that they will live in you?
You can't answer. By the Spirit. The Spirit. But the Father is not doing it by the Spirit. The Father is by his own nature, an essence indwelling us by his own power. Jesus is equating himself with that. And Jesus said, God is Spirit, and you must worship Him in Spirit and truth, Matt. Yes, and in Spirit and truth, and you're not doing that, that's correct. The Scriptures that you quote, damn you.
Because you are not believing in the truth, the Son of God. Alright, has anybody else called in? I need to go take care of babysitting with my grandchildren. You know how that goes. Maybe. Yes.
If you've got grandchildren. I don't. I wish I did. Well, thank you, Matt. I'll talk to you later. Okay.
You need to repent and come to Christ. Alright. Talk to you later. Okay. Thanks. Oh, sorry about that.
Yeah. Folks, look, a lot of people, when I talk like that, a lot of people say, Matt, you're being so judgmental. No, I'm not. I'm just informing people.
I need to inform them. And then what people do, they don't realize what they do. They say, you're being judgmental. And I say, are you condemning me for that? Isn't that being judgmental? It's like someone who says they only want to prove things by logic. I say, really? So did you use logic to prove that statement is true?
That you only prove things by logic or are you just believing on faith? Let's get to Michael from Utah. Michael, welcome.
You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi.
How are you doing? Just a quick question about, I'm dialoguing with some Mormon missionaries and I get to the point where they said, well, will you pray about whether the Book of Mormon is true? Okay, well, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to say, I'm typing out Moroni 10-4. I'm going to read it to you, okay? This is what I do with the Mormons when they say this to me. And I say, okay, really? So you want me to pray about the Book of Mormon, right?
And what's the support for that? Okay? They say, well, Moroni 10-4, this is what it says, and when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you and I'll have to wait after the break because we got a break. So hold on, brother, I'll be right back. After these messages, please give me a call for open lines, 877-207-2276, I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with my call.
All right, buddy, you still there? Yes, sir. Okay, so Moroni 10-4, it says when you receive these things, I would exhort you that you would ask God the eternal Father in the name of Christ if these things are not true.
And if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with eternal intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest a truth unto you by the power of all the Ghost. Okay, so I say, did you do that? And they say, yeah. And I say, so what was your answer? What was it?
What was it? And you said that it was true. But that's not what it says. It says to pray and see if these things are not true. When you find out they're not true, are you praying to see if they're not true? It's a little thing I like to do with Mormons. Then they stop and they stare at it and I say, so let me ask you. If you, if by chance, the God of Mormonism, hypothetically, if he's false, then you pray to the God of Mormonism, you'd be praying to a false God.
That'd be bad. So how do you know you're praying to the true God? Can you tell me that? Because the Bible then it says to us, pray about a book. It doesn't say pray about something to see if it's true.
It never does that. Jesus says, I'm the one with the truth. You just trust Christ. He speaks the truth. You don't pray about truth because that removes the foundation of truth in God and puts it in yourself.
Maybe the Mormons will come back. No, the Holy Spirit is telling us this. How do you know it's the Holy Spirit?
Because you've got a feeling. I've had Mormons tell me, I've had them tell me, Oh, I have a testimony. You cannot shake my testimony. I'll say, tell me your testimony.
And they'll say, well, you know, did variations. I've talked to hundreds of Mormon missionaries over the years and I say, well, you know, I had this profound feeling of, of the presence of God. Jesus says, okay, uh, did it knock you down? Well, no. Did it bring you to your, to your feet?
Just coughing up tears and agony because you're in the presence of God's holiness. Did that happen? No. Okay.
So you, but you felt a presence. Okay. So that's your testimony, right?
Okay. Can I bring you my testimony? I've done this a few times with them and I said, well, I got saved.
Oh yeah. So when I got saved, the power of the Holy Spirit himself was there and it knocked me down to my face on the ground and I wailed in agony because I was in the presence of incredible holiness. Tears just flowed. I was coughing up mucus and just agonizing tears. I was in the presence of incredible holiness, holiness that was like tidal waves just washing over me and into my soul.
This is all true. And then Jesus was there and I was, I remember the experience of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. I remember his attention, his holiness. I remember his power. I remember his, it just, the incredible-ness of his presence. I remember his attention.
This is all true. I'm telling you to happen on 17 and I said, and he just stepped into me and my sin was gone. I go on and I tell him, I say, and my life was changed and I say, that's my testimony. So is yours stronger?
It's hard. How do you judge a testimony? But if I have a testimony as powerful as that, and it's all true for those who are listening, I gave you the short version, but that's true. Then why is it that your testimony trumps my testimony? You see, testimonies aren't the way to go. You trust the word of God because the devil wants you to trust your testimony.
I even subject my testimony to scripture, my experience in conversion to Christ, to scripture. Okay. Okay.
Here's some stuff. So the pattern, the pattern you're saying, well, that's what I pointed out to him. I said, well, the pattern in scripture is people encountered Christ and they were, they were changed like the woman at the well and I mentioned Paul. People say they're changed too.
Paul's conversion. Yeah. Yeah. And people are changed by false religions. The pattern in scripture, that's the pattern in scripture is to pray to, to come to Christ, not to. Right.
And then I was pointing out to him in the Book of Mormon and Alma, it's talking, there's all these born again experiences and it's talking about the eternal God. I don't see anything that supports you. Well, what I would recommend you do is you can go to CARM. This is another thing you can do. You go to CARM and you can look up, uh, let me do this really fast because I got to find it for you.
Let's see. LDS, forward slash LDS. I've got documentation. If you go CARM.org forward slash LDS, it'll take you there. And um, let's see a quick look at the Book of Mormon.
I think it is. And in there is a little chart of the things of the Book of Mormon compared in contradiction to Mormon doctrine. The Book of Mormon contradicts the Mormon doctrine.
So let's see if I can tell you that this is, I got to do this again. I rarely talk to Mormons now because I'm always online. But what I did years ago was I got a Book of Mormon, flat out just Book of Mormon, not DNC, not Pearl of Great Price, just a Book of Mormon.
It was brand new. And then what I did was I found all the verses in the Book of Mormon that say there's only one God. Then I went to each of those pages and I underlined them.
Just that's all it was. So you look in the page, you're going to see the underline. Your eyes will be drawn. I took a piece of paper and tape and I tabbed that page, you know, in really small letters, one God. And then I found the next one that says one God, like Mosiah 15, 1 and verse 5, Alma 11, 28, 2nd Nephi 31, 21, and I would put them all in the same row, not left and right, but the same row.
So you look at one, you see they're right behind. Then I did this thing with only one God, you know, just move it over a little bit and did one God so that all the tabs are right behind one another. God is unchanging. God is spirit, eternal hell. Polygamy is condemned. And I put those in the Book of Mormon.
And I can tell you really fascinating results. I would often walk up to Mormon missionaries, I'd have that book with me in my car. I just walk up to them and say, hi, how are you guys doing? I'd hold up the Book of Mormon, I'd hold it sideways because you could then read the tabs and I would just show it to them. And they'd start reading the tabs and I would just motion take it.
And they would take it. And they'd hit the tab and they'd go through and they'd spend five minutes going through the Book of Mormon. And I'd say, does the Book of Mormon agree with your theology? And they didn't know what to do.
They were stumped. I'd say, you prayed about the Book of Mormon, see they prayed about the Book of Mormon to see if it's true, but to see if it's not true. And if it's true, why does it disagree with Mormon theology? Because the Book of Mormon says there's only one God, but Mormonism teaches there's many gods. And it says God is unchanging, but Mormonism says he's increasing in knowledge. The Book of Mormon says God is spirit. But Mormon doctrine says he's a form of a man, and it goes on and on. Okay.
Yeah. See, they have their faith as in the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith. What you could also do on one of the pages of the Book of Mormon towards the end, the blank pages, is write those things down. And you could also write the 12 essential Mormon doctrines not found in the Book of Mormon.
Church organization, plurality of gods, plurality of wives, word of wisdom. And there's a bunch. And I put those on a page too. And I would quote... And what was this site again? What's that?
This site again I met, what did you type in, what? A quick look at the Book of Mormon, and you can take that and you can put that information into a Book of Mormon. And it's very useful to do. And you can just show it to a Mormon and say, look, this is what you pray about, to see if it's true. Not according to Moroni 10 forward it, which says to not see if it's not true. But you pray about it, you get the idea that it's true, and yet it doesn't agree with Mormonism. And then, since the volume 4, page 461 says the Book of Mormon is the most correct book of any book on earth.
Any book. You can't get closer to the precepts of God by following it than by any other book, any other book. And yet it doesn't have, I'll read them, I'll do all 12. It does not have church organization, plurality of gods, plurality of wives, doctrine, word of wisdom, gods and exalted man, celestial marriage, men may become gods, three degrees of glory, baptism for the dead, eternal progression, the Aaronic priesthood, temple works of washings, anointing, endowments and sealing. And yet it's the most correct book, you can get closer to God by following it than any other book. Yet in Mormonism, to get close to God, you have to have the priesthood, you have to do baptism for the dead, you have to understand the three degrees of glory, you have to do temple washings, anointing, celestial marriage.
But it's not even in there. So if it's the most correct book, how is it that it has these things, or doesn't have the things that are essential in Mormon theology? And how can the Book of Mormon contradict Mormonism? I've shown this to, I'm telling you, I've had a lot of Mormon missionaries leave their mission and their testimonies are destroyed. When they see the facts, when they realize that they've been deceived, and I've been threatened too, I've been threatened by Mormons, I've been threatened physically, I've even been threatened with death by one Mormon. Now for the Mormons who are listening, it's going to say this, I don't believe that represents the typical Mormon at all, I don't believe that.
I'm just saying that this was what happened with one Mormon, that he threatened me. And that's when the context of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I think it was 1857, on 9-11, where the Mormons killed 125 men, women, and children in a wagon train. And then they blamed it on women, the Danites. The Danites were a hit squad from Brigham Young. And he would go around saying, use them up, boys.
And these guys, he'd send them to go get them, but these men would never be heard of again. And a lot of people don't know about Mormonism, and they think it's a great religion, but it's not. Okay? Well, thanks for your time, man, appreciate it.
You're welcome, brother, God bless. You know, if you're a Mormon listening to me in Utah, you don't understand, I'm not a Mormon. I don't hate you. No Mormon beat me up. I'm not an ex-Mormon.
It's not like that. It's just an issue of what does the scripture say, and I've studied Mormonism. And it's the first thing I studied. When I started doing apologetics and the defense of the Christian faith, I started with Mormonism, and that's with Gerald and Sandra Tanner, under Walter Martin, Jerry and Marion Bodine were the ones that were teaching. And that's where I started back in 1979 or 80, we just say 80, and I've talked to a lot of Mormon missionaries, and they're great people, and Mormons are great people, but you believe in a false god. Your testimony won't save you in the day of judgment. And you've got to understand, God is not an exalted man for another world who has a goddess wife, and then they produce spirit offspring in heaven that inhabit human bodies. But think about this, when I've stood out in front of Mormon temple openings with signs, I'm being polite, okay, and one of the things I will say to them as they line up to go in, they'll say, why do you go into the temple and you bow down, you kneel down in the temple under the statue of an angel?
Why is that? Why is it, and in order to get into that temple, you have to pay what your temple recommend, 10% of your income is going to be verified for a year. So why is it that money is required for you to be able to enter into the so-called sacred house of God and bow under an angel, an idol? And why is it that God destroyed the temple veil, which you just crucified, because there's no more necessity for the temple, which housed the veil, which separated the Holy of Holies and the Holy place.
He destroyed it, and yet the Mormons put it back. All kinds of problems. Hey folks, there you go, may the Lord bless you. I'll be on the air. Well, I'm not on the air. In two hours, I'll be doing clubhouse answering questions. May the Lord bless you, talk to you tomorrow, by his grace. Your program powered by the truth network.
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