The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. And you're listening to Match Lick Live. Today is, let's see, July 18th, 2023.
And praise God, I'm just hoping that you'll enjoy the show today. We get callers coming in, we have three open lines. Maybe now make it four open lines. 8772072276. We're casting on Clubhouse and StreamYard and on Rumble. And on Facebook.
Facebook actually, yes, and YouTube. All right, we've got a lot of stuff going on. Hey, I released a video today. You guys can check it out if you want.
It's on Rumble. Maybe we'll put the URL in there. Don't use the left words and terminology. And you shouldn't do that because it's a thought control procedure that they want to impose upon people to get them to think like them and do what they want you to do. So I released a video on that. So there you go for that. All right, having said all that, if you want, you can give me a call, 8772072276. And let's just get on the air here and get to Alan from Virginia. Alan, welcome. You are on the air.
Hi, Matt. How are you doing today? Doing all right. Hanging in there. Busy day, but good day.
So what do you got? All right. So this kind of goes, I remember you mentioning this a little bit yesterday. And I apologize for this run-on sentence.
But if Jesus forgave everyone's past, present, and future sins, why do we have to do anything more to avoid hell, such as believing in Jesus, or what Romans 9 to 10 says? So I'm not sure what the question is. Usually I kind of think it's a comment, and it deals with the issue and the extent and nature of the atoning work. So is that what you're asking about? Yes. So to go to heaven, you have to have your sins forgiven at death, right? Yes.
And Jesus forgave everyone's past, present, and future sins, correct? No. Nope. Are you there? Yes, I can hear you.
Yeah. The answer is no, he did not forget everyone's past, present, and future sins. And what did he die in the cross for? He died in the cross to forgive people of their sins, I believe it was only for the elect. And some people believe he actually paid the price and paid the sin debt for everybody to ever live. But that would be a logical problem, because if he paid their sin debt, then no sin exists, it's paid for.
And so if God were to send people to hell for whom the sins are paid for and taken care of, how can God send them to hell? That's double jeopardy. It wouldn't make sense. It's a logical problem. Okay. So what does, so, I'm trying to see a word there.
That's all right. So it's setting up for the elect. That's what you said, right? Yeah, I believe that.
So can you go into detail with that? Yes, in Ephesians 1, 4 through 5, it says, very interestingly, it says this. It says, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we'd be holy and blameless. So God the Father chose us, that's the elect, in him, that's Jesus, before the foundation of the world. So it wasn't based on anything we would do or that he saw that we would do. Otherwise, God's choice depends on our goodness, and that's not a biblical concept.
And so that doesn't work. Jesus says in John 637, he says, all that the Father gives me will come to me. He does not say all who come to me the Father will then give to me. That's humanism. No, it's theology, proper God-centered theology is all that the Father gives me will come to me. That's God-centered theology. So there's a group called the All that I talk about, which I can show you in Scripture, referring to the believers. Okay. Okay. So that means that sharing the gospel in an attempt to lead someone to be saved is a fool's errand? Of course not. I tell people our job is sales, not production.
And I got that phrase from Bill McKeever, a friend of mine in Salt Lake City area. But our job is not to convert. God converts. God's the one who causes people to be born again, 1 Peter 1.3. He grants that we believe, Philippians 1, Philippians 1.29.
And that faith that we have that God grants to us is in Christ, John 6.29. He grants repentance, 2 Timothy 2.25. So it's God's work. He does this to whom he wills.
But we don't know the criteria that he uses or the method that he uses. So our job is to promote the gospel. And the funny thing is, the more we do that, apparently, the more people have been elected by God. So there's some interaction, I believe, between the elect who are regenerate and who ask God for the salvation of others and intercede. And because we're cleansed in Christ, then our prayers are heard and somehow they work with God. So as the Bible says in James 5, the prayers of righteous man avail much with God, so we can influence God.
But yet, from all eternity, he's ordained that we influence him. And this gets into some pretty heavy stuff, okay? Okay.
Interesting. So can I ask one other question? Sure. Is addressing something as Lord that is not addressing God a sin? No.
Okay. It's not taking his name in vain or anything like that? The word Lord, kurios, in Greek has different meanings. So you could go to, for example, in 2 Peter 3.6. Oh, actually, it's 1 Peter 3.6.
And in there, Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him Lord. This is what Peter wrote. It's not a sin to use that word, kurios. And that word occurs a lot of times in the New Testament. And so it has different contexts, okay? Okay.
And one more. Do you have vods of sorts for your radio sessions? I didn't understand.
That's one word I didn't get. You said vods? Yes, like video on demand. I know it's radio, but is there recording?
Yeah, uh-huh. Yes, the show is recorded every day. And it's being recorded right now. It's on Rumble. So if you were to go to rumble.com forward slash Matt Slick Live, all one word, you'd see this show here.
And there are people in there right now. And you can go to all those shows in the past, click on it. You can see the past shows that I've done. And I've been on radio over 18 years, five days a week. So I've done thousands of shows. And we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos that I've done. And that's just on the radio show. I just released a video today, for example.
And I'm trying to do videos more. So let me ask you, are you a Christian or what? Yes, I believe so. What church do you go to? I go to Clover Hill Baptist. So I assume you believe in the Trinity that Jesus is God in flesh. And that he rules from dead physically and salvations by grace alone in faith. By faith alone and grace alone in Christ alone, right? So I would say yes. But I also believe, I guess I kind of believe in Romans 10, 9, 10, where you have to also do particular actions such as confessing with your mouth to be saved. Okay. So then let me ask you, if that's the case, then what do you do with someone who can't speak who's a mute?
Yeah, that's one question I thought about. And then what I then go into is that I think the scripture is infallible and that me not understanding it is a me problem and not an error with the scripture. Okay, now I'm going to help you out with a little bit of logic here, okay? Notice that it says, if you confess with your mouth to Jesus as the Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. Okay, so it doesn't say you must do it this way. It doesn't say that. It says if you do this, you're going to be saved.
It doesn't restrict the formula to that method only. There are people in hospital beds who have tubes in their mouths who receive Christ on their deathbed. They can't confess with their mouth. All that Paul's doing is just giving a normal thing. Look, you've got to confess Christ, okay?
And if people do it in sign language or a nod of their head, that's okay. That's what's going on there, all right? Okay. All right. Help?
Can I help? Yeah, there you go. Well, you're asking good questions, and here's a verse about the nature of the atonement that a lot of people stumble over. It's Colossians 2.14. Now, the previous few words in verse 13 says that Jesus, having forgiven us all, are transgressions. Verse 14, having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of decrees, which was hostile to us, he took it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. So the sin debt was taken out of the way at the cross.
It's not removed when you believe. You're justified when you believe. And justification occurs by faith, Romans 3.28, Romans 4.5, Romans 5.1, Galatians 2.16. What that means is that the righteousness of God is reckoned to your account by faith, that's Philippians 3.9 and such.
So he canceled the sin debt. A lot of people, what they do without realizing it is they introduce humanistic philosophy into satyriology, the doctrine of salvation. They generally hold to the idea that Jesus is the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown asking permission for you in your wisdom to let him into your heart. And that's not what the Bible teaches. It teaches that God is the sovereign king who opens the heart to understand scripture, Luke 24.45 and Acts 16.14. And that he is the one who grants us this repentance and faith and stuff like that. People don't like that because then what it means is that God's the one in charge of salvation, not ourselves. What I try and do with people is to get them to get rid of humanist philosophy.
And it's so natural to us. Well, you know, when I was an unbeliever, I'm the one who in my wisdom, I'm the one who decided it was up to me. I just needed the right information and it was up to me and I did it. Oh, man, I'm patting myself on the back and that's why I believed. And why did my neighbor not believe? Because he, well, he wasn't wise like I was.
Because that's an over-exaggeration, but there's a lot of truth in it. Now, people will generally say, well, no, they weren't prideful. They were humbly receiving Christ. They were humble. Well, then you're saying that Christ picked you and saved you based on your humility. And that means that God chose you based on something good quality in you, but that shows favoritism. And that's what's denied by Christ and the Scriptures. So this is a serious issue.
And I wish that churches would start teaching biblical theology instead of humanist philosophy woven in disguised as biblical theology. Okay? Okay. All right. All right. Thank you, Matt. Okay.
God bless, man. Okay. You too. Bye. Okay, bye. Hey, if you want to call back, I mean, if you want to call back, if you want to call me, all you got to do is just dial 877-207-2276.
Now, we have a break coming on right now. We have a guy calling in named John from the Voice of the Christians. We're going to talk about what's happening in India. I've asked him to call me up.
This is about persecution. He's seen it firsthand. We're going to be talking about it, and right back after this break, I will be talking to him. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. I just want to say thanks for listening. And let's get to John from, well, he's someplace here. Hey, John, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. Hey, man, no problem at all, man. So, we talked today on the phone, and I said, hey, you got to call. So, what I want to do is just have you introduce yourself, and let's just start right in and tell us what's happening in India. Okay, so go ahead.
Yeah, sure, yeah. So, I'm with an organization called Voice of Christians, and the primary purpose of our organization has been to help persecuted believers. Really, what we do is we just network in different countries, find these Good Samaritans, people that are interested in helping. Maybe they want to help lead one of our shelters, whatever. We build these networks, and then we begin to take in requests to shelter, hide, relocate, whatever needs to happen to keep Christians alive.
We found that there are a lot of ministries that are advocating for Christians who are facing persecution, but there's really not a lot of actually boots-on-the-ground work being done to keep them safe, to help them continue to spread the gospel, and to serve God instead of just becoming a martyr. So, that's what we've been doing. Unofficially, we've been doing it for our CEOs and doing it for years, but we became, founded an organization just recently in 2018. I just joined a few years ago, and we saw what was going on.
I saw, India's kind of been a target of interest of mine. I kind of was put in charge of looking, building a network there, and it was through that May 3rd, I saw, actually I think it was the 5th that I saw the news, that May 3rd, there was churches being burned. And that seemed interesting to me, obviously, because I'm trying to support Christians that are facing persecution. So I started following it, and the narrative was very confusing, and honestly it's still confusing when you look online or on a lot of news channels that will cover, which not many are.
Because it sounds like it's one tribe's attacking another, it's confusing who's the aggressor, and things just seem very, just a lot of violence going on, right? But, since churches were being burnt down, and there was obviously some conflict, we wanted to go in and see how we could help. So immediately I started contacting with our current network there, and started communicating with pastors and people that were just trying to find people that were connected with the area.
And we began devising a plan. It did take me, I left about June 15th, 16th, I think I landed in India on the 16th, and I was there for a little over two weeks in India. But the problem was, everything's kind of been shut down in northeast India.
So Manipur is literally on the very northeast edge of India, right next to Myanmar. And so, when to get there, I actually, my tourist visa wouldn't actually allow me there, so even the videos and things posting, I've had to blur my face and not give out my full name, just for security purposes. But, the only reason I say that is because it was an absolute miracle. This was a clearly God-ordained, God-orchestrated event, because there's no way humanly possible that I could have managed to do this trip on my own. In fact, I flew into India without a clear plan.
I just knew God was telling me to do this, and we needed to help somehow. So, just to give you kind of a statistics view of what's happening, last I checked, we were looking at over 250 churches burnt down, several hundred villages destroyed, and over 40,000 displaced people. And it's an ethnic class between two tribes. One are the Métis, which are living in the valley area, and the Kuki tribals, which are living in the hill area. There's a lot of politics involved, a lot of things that complicate the issue, but the simplest answer is the Kukis are almost totally Christian.
I have not seen any cases where they have attacked, they have done everything on the defensive. I do know when they sent out, there were a few villages when they sent, so basically there's been a complete ethnic separation. Anywhere that Kukis live, there's no Métis. Anywhere there's Métis living, there's no Kukis.
Everything's completely separated. So during a 10-day exchange that happened, people were swapped between one side and the other, because there had been ethnic mixing. And during that time, I do know some Kuki Christians, very angry, and if you knew all the stories, I would have to say, I can't say that I wouldn't be just as angry, but they did burn down the houses of people that left. So those are the acts of violence on the Christian side that I am aware of. Other than that, I'm not aware of any aggression on the Christian side. In fact, there could be a lot more aggression that they could be doing, and if we get into it, I can explain that also, but they're choosing to not be the aggressors and only defend. And I don't know how many times, when I visited Manipur, how many times these Christians said, vengeance is mine, say it for the Lord, it's not our place to attack them, God knows what we're going through.
And that really impressed me, even though they were having people murdered, I'm so sorry, killed and things, they just were choosing to have faith and trusting God. Well, you know Christians do have the right of self-defense, and I've written on that and taught on it, but vengeance is not something. They can't go out looking for trouble, but they can certainly stop it, and they do have the right of self-defense. I say they have the right of self-defense, but not the obligation. But then, there is a mandate to protect others, and that's really interesting. So, if Christians were to see other Christians being persecuted, there's a necessity for Christians to step in, and I can get into that in the scriptures. So, a lot of people are being killed, a lot of Christians are being killed.
I know it's happening in Nigeria also, but that's another topic. So, what do you do? I mean, you go over there and you say, hey, don't.
What happens? How are you guys working to mitigate that problem? Yeah, so it was an especially challenging situation for me personally, because our mission was to go in and provide relief. I'm from an ex-military, ex-special operations background, and so I wanted to go in and fight. I wanted to teach guys how to fight. I wanted to, you know, do whatever I could. And yet, I think the Holy Spirit held me back and showed me what I needed to be doing, and I'm grateful for that. And what we did is, I went in, I met with some pastors, some NGOs that are local to the area, with a doctor. She worked for the main hospital there in the town that I was visiting, and she worked right underneath the chief medical officer over the entire area. And we orchestrated truckloads of food, of medicine, to be delivered.
As of now, I think we're at five truckloads, conservative estimates with over 20,000 people. We can help. Hey, John, man, we've got a break coming up.
So, can you hold on? We'll just continue after the break. All right, brother?
All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you've got a question or a comment for John, please let me know. And we'll have him on for one more segment, and then we'll go back to the phone.
So, God bless. Hey, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the show, bottom of the hour. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back on with John. Hey, man, you're back on.
You there? Yes, sir, I am. All right. So, say again what it is you guys are doing to help them, and then I want you to give me your contact information.
So, people want to support you financially or the ministry to help those poor, persecuted Christians. Okay? Yes. Okay.
Well, I appreciate that. So, the main thing we wanted to do is just meet the immediate needs, which was, in this case, food and medicine. And even with that, we were able to get a lot of bags of rice and things just to meet so people aren't starving.
In fact, one of the villages we sent to, the truck had to go through these tiny little roads through the mountains. Nobody had gotten there before, and they only had days' worth of food left when we were able to get them some supplies. So, our first push was just almost reactionary, just trying to get life-threatening situations taken care of. But moving forward, we are trying to get some more medication.
We've already had some other doctors submitting to us some requests for specific types of medication. We've got people on the ground that could buy the medicine. We just need the funds to do it.
So, we are trying to raise some funds to send over there. And then, obviously, we do want to not only give them food, but we're also already speaking with other organizations about sending people in to teach urban gardening, because a lot of these people, for generations, they farmed out on the hillsides, and to do that right now is a death sentence. So, they'll have to learn how to garden in the area to kind of relieve some of the long-term pressure of not having food, not being able to bring in food, and also we can't just supply them indefinitely. The conflict could last for a long time.
So, they need to have other sources of food besides just relying on us or any other organization that might want to help. Wow. Boots on the ground. Good stuff for you. And also, I just want to say thanks for serving in the military. My dad did.
I never did, but they just appreciate it. I have the same attitude. I want to get over there and teach them how to fight. I've been in martial arts for years, and I'm the kind of guy that gets it done.
But, on the other hand, I would also want to get as much medicine as I could and give it to the other side, too, and help them, show the love of Christ to them. But, yeah. Oh, man. So, how do people – go ahead. No, go ahead.
I apologize. And to be clear, we are helping both sides because you're seeing basically on one side you're having a genocide happening, and then on the other side, anyone that are in the Métis tribes that are Christians are being heavily persecuted. Their churches are being burned. They're being told, burn your Bibles or burn your homes.
Pastors are being beaten. We're doing a lot to help that side as well, providing them – we did a big – we hired some doctors to go into these towns, and they just provided free aid, free medicine. We supplied everything, and that happened all in the Métis community. So, we definitely – we want to serve.
We're not trying to be biased. We just want to love and help people where they need it. Amen. Did they know that it was the Christian side that was offering help? Yes.
Yeah. But it was something where we were able to go in. The people there knew because we said – we mentioned, hey, this is from Voice of Christians, and so they're getting the help for free.
But we didn't advertise driving down the road, hey, this is a Christian organization. Good for you. Good for you. Wow.
All right. So, how do they get a hold of you? If people wanted to support – I know that – see, we have a prayer team, okay, so people are going to be praying for you. That's a given.
But how can we support you? Where's the address for that web address and stuff? Yeah.
Yeah. So, we do have a website, voiceofchristians.org. And then our main contact number is on the website.
Also, the direct line to me is 919-274-5300. Okay. And they can donate there, right?
And so the funds will be used to help both sides, but those Christians are being persecuted so they can survive. Good. Yes. Yeah.
If you put in a note, there's like an option to put in a memo. If you mention India or Manipur or anything, 100% of those funds will go to specifically helping that situation. Good. So, when are you going to go back?
Well, just because it's such a lot of financial drain to travel, it probably won't be until maybe next year. But we already have – while I was there, I was actually interviewing a guy to kind of be a director there in India for us. So, he's taking over a lot of the operations. And where I'm communicating with him directly, he's done an incredible job just – and God used them.
It's funny. It's a situation where God took, you know, high blows and two fish and just fed thousands with just a tiny bit of outmount that we were given. And God's really blessed and multiplied that. Well, man, I'm glad to hear that. I really am.
I always appreciate people who go out there and do that. I remember I was at a mission group someplace. I can't remember what – no, I remember it was in the Philippines, I think it was.
But nevertheless, it doesn't matter. And we had this meeting and this – a bunch of people were there. And I was so impressed. This one woman showed up. I mean, many women did. But this one in particular, I remember, she must have been five feet tall, you know, 90 pounds kind of a thing. And she loved the Lord Jesus. And what she would do is go into these various areas in the Philippines that were risky to do. And she would preach Christ and Him crucified. And the people were saying that she's been threatened many times. And I remember her talking because she spoke English and she said, it doesn't matter. She says, I'm going to go where God's called me to go and do those things.
I never forgot that. I just never – I mean, I could have picked her up and thrown her 10 feet and here she is, a mighty warrior, you know. And it was just – so I always appreciate the courage that people have to go to do those kind of things. And I appreciate you, man, for going over there and doing that. Well, thank you. But, you know, you mentioned the sovereignty of God in the last chapter, in the last little section. And I have to say, that is absolutely true.
I might think a lot of myself – probably too much of myself. But it is – God gave me an extra measure of grace to do this. And it was – I can't even begin to take an ounce of credit for this. God just totally made this happen.
You know, I'm smiling because you're not saying particulars, but, boy, do I know what that means. And, yep, he just has a way of doing things, opening the doors up at the right time in such a way that you just know, I've been praying about this and this is what happened. And you know it's him. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Well, praise God. So, voiceofchristians.org. And there's some – there's a picture there and I'm looking at it. And so, hey, brother, you know, I just wanted to say thanks.
And I hope that people, if you're listening, ladies and gentlemen out there, this is a serious thing. People are being persecuted all over the world. In fact, in the 1900s, more Christians died for their faith than all of history combined up to that point. The rise of attack on Christians all over the world is increasing. But what's interesting, for example, in Iran where it's – I think it's illegal to own a Bible. I'm not sure, but it's like that level because there's Muslim around.
It has the biggest underground Christian church of all the Middle East. And so, God has a way of raising up people in the midst of persecution and you can – I'm just going to say to everybody – you can participate by prayer, absolutely. But you can also participate in helping just by supporting them. And I think it's a good cause. I really do.
And voiceofchristians.org and I'll be donating and lifting you guys up and so will our people. So, I want to thank you for calling. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. And if something else comes up, call me up or email me and say, hey, here's something new and maybe just get you on for a bit and kind of give people an update. Because people will remember you. They'll remember this issue.
And every now and then they want to know what's going on. Okay? Awesome.
Sounds good. All right, brother. Thank you. God bless, man. God bless. God bless you. Bye. Okay. So, folks, that's voiceofchristians.org. And I know it sounds like an advertisement, but I asked that – I contacted them. I asked them, contact me. We talked on the phone.
I said, please come on here and talk. This is a serious thing. Christians are being persecuted. I know what it means to be persecuted, but not like what they're going through.
And we're comfortable here in America and we can spare. So I hope that you'll just consider praying for them, for the persecuted Christians out there. And pray for specifics, for their protection, but also for their ability under the unction of the Holy Spirit to minister to the persecutors, that they would pray for them and that even the unbelievers would be converted and trust in Christ. That's what we're going to pray for. All right. We've got a break coming up and then we'll get to the last segment. And I hope that you continue to listen. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show.
Let's get to Eric from North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, God bless you, Matt. Thanks.
So always a pleasure to talk to you. By the way, I'm one of those lazy givers. Have you ever thought of going to one of those digital planning types of programs where people can just log in or go put in a keyword or through a text such as mobile accept or church planning? It's called Church Center.
I think Church Center, which is part of church planning. But it's easy for me and I'm sure people like me to give to your organization, which is so valuable, by just going to the app, I mean, just texting and putting in the amount, and it's already set up for someone to do that. Have you ever – you already have that set up or ever thought of doing that? You know what I'm talking about?
I didn't even know about it. I'm taking notes. For example, like my church, they are set up where you just go on, you know, just text the amount you want to do it. You just text it and it then is already set up through the company such as Church Center or – it's called Church Planning. It's the main developer of that, but Church Center.
Another one is Mobile XEPT, there you go, Mobile XP. Why don't you send me – find it and email it to me because we definitely need to take care of that issue because a lot of people are hurting financially and we are too and we're having trouble making ends meet sometimes to pay the missionaries. And, you know, that happens during the summer, but we always want to make things easier.
So, yeah. Well, it's just – it's so simple. Planning Center is at planningcenter.com or just put up how to set up a church, Giving Through Planning Center, and the other is Mobile XEPT. And a number of ministries use these types of programs because it simplifies giving. Because all they got to do is just put in the amount they want to give through an app.
I mean, through your text. For example, my church, you just put in the amount on a text and because you already are set up, it just subtracts that amount from either your credit card or your bank, however way you want to set it. But some people like me are lazy and we like simplified giving rather than having to log in and all this other stuff. These two types of planning centers, it's a mobile app they have that you can just give by just simply texting. My church is set up.
But Steve Brown, which is Key Life, Steve Brown Key Life, one of my favorite ministries, they use Mobile XEPT. Okay. I'll look into it. I appreciate that.
Definitely got to look into it. That way I can just give what I want you to even think about and just text it and text the amount to you. I like that. Okay. Well, you know, it's yeah.
Well, we live off people's donations and we're producing videos, a lot of work, we got a lot of missionaries. You know, it's just what it is. But yeah, I'm grateful for you pointing that out. Well, amen. I'm grateful for you, period. Well, it says mutual, I guess. Good.
Amen. So anyway, I have at least one question, if I can squeeze in another, that would be great. But my first question is, with the 144,000 that the false Jehovah's Witnesses use to say that these are the only ones going to heaven, how do you talk around or share with them that's more than just the 144,000?
Do you have any type of standards, a plot or some suggestions on how to break through that? Well, what they say is 144,000 are going to heaven. And I say, okay, all right, so that's from every tribe, right? And they'll say, yeah, that's spiritual tribe and Jehovah's Witnesses, right? It says, okay, the set of Revelation 14, and it talks about this and it says that they've not been defiled with women.
They've kept themselves chaste. So does that require then that they have to be virgins to go to heaven, their Jehovah's Witness? And that's out of Revelation 14, 4. So check this out, 144,000, so 14, 144, the first two numbers are 14, Revelation 14, 4. So 144,000 is Revelation 14, 4, okay?
It's a mnemonic for remembering. So that's one of the things I will say. It says, well, they haven't defiled themselves with women, so that means they have to be males, unless they're lesbian, which you, of course, wouldn't agree with, so that's good. So then how does that work? And if they say, well, it's symbolic, well, then why is 144,000 then literal if you're going to say that that people, that group is symbolic? Now, I do believe it's going to be 144,000, but out of the 12 tribes of Israel, they're going to be preaching and teaching towards the end times. But that's another topic.
That's just one of the ways to witness what the Jehovah's Witness is. Okay? Okay.
What do you do? Do you have other people waiting, or do I have time for one more? Well, we do have others waiting, but go ahead really fast.
As you know, you waited over 40 minutes. Go ahead. Yeah. No, that's fine. I was going to listen anyway. Go ahead and help those other people.
I'll call you back another time. All right, brother. God bless, man. Thanks. Appreciate it. God bless you.
All right. That was Eric from Charlotte, North Carolina. Now let's get to Alberto from Georgia.
Hey, Alberto, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. I have a quick question.
I have another one, but I have a very short time. Well, when a person says Christ, you know, it's a free gift order to heaven, but what about that person doesn't want to walk the narrow path or the narrow way? What do you mean? What about the person doesn't want to walk the narrow path?
What do you mean? When we accept Christ, we go into heaven because it's a free gift, not by words, but then the person doesn't want to walk the narrow path here on the earth just to follow Christ. Are they truly born again? Are they truly born again, though? Well, I don't know. I can't say that. Only God knows that too. Only God knows that. Well, if you say there's a situation where a truly born again person doesn't want to walk with the Lord, that's a problem. It seems to be a non-sequitur. So if you say that a person who is truly born again is going to want to walk with the Lord but doesn't do it very well or backslides occasionally, well, that's another issue. Okay?
Okay. But in the world, like I say, that person put his hand on the plow and turned loose back. It's not worth it to pay for the kingdom.
It's not worth it to pay for the kingdom. Well, yeah, those are those, you know, the plants grew up a little bit and then the sun came and destroyed them. So there are different kinds of those on the surface that we look at. And only one out of four, as is mentioned there, are true believers. And they will persevere. They will do good works. They will struggle with their sin.
Because that's just the nature of what it means to be born again. Okay? All right. For another third, thank you. All right, man.
Well, God bless, Alberto. Okay. Thank you.
Okay, you too. Bye-bye. All right, let's get to Cole from Indianapolis.
Cole, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how's it going, man? It's going. It's going.
So what do you got? Head to this chapter 4, verse 24 through verse 26. I'm confused on that one, man. Okay, so it says, now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the Lord met him and sought to put him to death. And Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin and threw it at Moses' feet and said, you're indeed a bridegroom of blood to me. So he let him alone at that time.
She said you are a bridegroom of blood because of the circumcision. So Moses was supposed to fulfill the law and he failed to do it. And so because he was a representative of God in a very real sense, it made a lot of noise in the background there, man.
And so there's a lot of noise going on. Okay, I'm going to mute you, okay? There we go. And so I don't know what the reason was that Moses did not follow through with circumcising his son, but Zipporah basically saved his life, took the foreskin, which is a sign of the covenant. And so he rejected that. And in so doing, incurred the wrath of God. So when the foreskin was thrown at his feet, it does not say that the foreskin touched him.
But maybe it did. And if it did, then it would be a nice relationship between the issue of the blood applied to somebody for salvation. And that, because a lot of people don't realize officially, not officially, typologically, the circumcision of the male only for obvious biological reasons, but also because the male represents a descendant, and the shedding of blood in the process represents ultimately the work of Christ on the cross. So it's a typological representation, sign of the covenant. And so by doing this, Moses was inadvertently rejecting, without on purpose doing it, the future work of the Messiah. And the judgment's on him for that, and yet he was saved.
So I suspect that the foreskin touched him, though it doesn't say. I'm not going to die in that hill. I just suspect that's probably the case. And that's it. So, Cole, are you still there? Are you there, buddy? I can't hear you.
Got a lot of noise. All right. Let's move along then, and, Cole, hope you heard that and stuff. So, hey, there you go, folks.
We've got about two minutes left on the show. Nobody's waiting. I just want to let you know that the Voice of the Christians, voiceofchristians.org, you know, check it out. I have nothing coming from these guys. I don't get any kickback. I don't get anything. It's not a mutual exchange of anything.
It's just that these Christians are being persecuted. And I'm more savvy to it because we have a guy in Nigeria. And I mentioned this on the radio a couple of weeks ago, Moto. That's what we're going to call him. And I need to give an update on him. So he was arrested for passing out literature, defending Christianity, and defending the right of self-defense and doctrines of Islam, quoting from their resources and showing why it's inferior to Christianity. So he was arrested, spent 11 days in a jail, chained to a bed, a metal bed. And he was beaten.
And so he went to a trial meeting, and they postponed it to the 27th. And so he has been telling us about that, but also about other things that have been going on over there, how the Muslims are coming in on motorcycles and killing the Christians in the outskirts of Nigeria, away from the big cities. So they're doing this, and he goes out to those areas and preaches the gospel. And so he's been informing us about the varying degrees of persecution. And so when I hear about others being persecuted, my heart goes out to them.
So this is happening in Myanmar and India. And if you are interested in checking that out and the support, we would really appreciate that. So voiceofchristians.org, check it out. Well, there you go. We're about out of time. May the Lord bless you, and by His grace, we'll be back on the air tomorrow. And tomorrow night I do a thing on Clubhouse where I answer questions. We do that at 9 p.m. Eastern time, because that's just how it works out for schedules for other people. May the Lord bless you, and by His grace, we'll be back on air tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Have a good evening. God bless you.
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