Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. A call.

All you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. All right. We had a little bit of phone problems with Luke yesterday. I had to take my wife to the doctor and so Luke filled in and I know he does a great job. I was listening a little bit there and he does a good job. All right. So praise God for that. Hope Luke's listening.

And if you want to give me a call, like I said, 5 open lines, 877-207-2276. And guess what? Today, let's see. There we go. Today is my wife and I's problems connection with the station. So I don't hear anything. Are we on the air? You got to tell me if we're on the air.

I don't know. Well, we are. We're on the air. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, we had a connection problem.

Sometimes it happens and there you go. So we are live. And if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. We're on Clubhouse and we are on, let's see, Discord. I got to get on Discord here a little bit.

So, yeah, there's some, you know, it just happens a little bit of problems and she's doing the setup and stuff like that. Hey, hold on one sec. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. And sorry about that for that little technical difficulty we just had, but that does happen. All right.

So we have one caller waiting. If you want to, you can also email me at info at karm.org, info at karm.org. If you are interested and you can email me a question or comment about the show and it'd be fine. Okay. All right. Just kind of catching up.

He had a little bit of difficulty, so it threw me off. I have a couple of extra things to do that I normally do before the show. And now it's going to go to rumble and stuff like that. All right. There we go. All right. I'm going to check on the emails and see if we've got any new stuff coming in and hopefully that'd be fine. So let's see, let's see, let's see.

We've got some callers coming in too. And okay. Okay. Interesting. All right.

So, yeah, I don't see anything really. We have a bunch that have already come in before. All right. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I'm on Discord. If you're interested in listening in there, you go to the CARM server and we're in Clubhouse also. So we have a bunch of people in there and now we're going to get to them calls. All right. Let's get to Lamont from North Carolina. Lamont, welcome. You are on the air.

You there? Yeah. Now I can hear you. You got to speak up a little bit, but yeah. Okay. I feel about what about females, females being heads of churches.

Is that what you're saying? Women are not supposed to be pastors or elders. They're not supposed to be heads of churches.

Biblically speaking. Okay. They're not. I can barely hear you.

So I don't know if that's what you're asking, but it's unbiblical, it's unscriptural for women to be pastor and elder. Okay. Are you there?

Tell you what, Lamont. Yeah. Okay.

Let's try it again because maybe we just have a bad connection and that does happen sometimes. So was that your question, whether they can be heads of churches? Is that what you were asking? Yeah. Hey Lamont, I can't understand you. Tell you what, call back. Okay. Cause I just can't, I can't follow you. Okay. Call, call back Lamont. Okay. Okay. Call back. Cause we've got a bad, bad connection there. Just can't hear you. Hey folks. You have four open lines. If you want to give me a call eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania. Welcome. You are on the air.

Hey Matt. Uh, my question today, uh, uh, would be this, uh, uh, in, in our Colossians, uh, two 14, uh, uh, you believe it's saying that, uh, we were forgiven, uh, 2000 years ago when Jesus shed his blood. Correct? No, Nope. Okay. Oh, we were not forgiven.

No. Our sin debt was canceled at the cross. That's Colossians two 14.

And there's a functional issue here called the now and the not yet. So for Jesus, it was now 2000 years ago, but for us it was not yet. So our sins were imputed to him and he canceled a sin debt at the cross. Colossians two 14. When someone is born, uh, and they haven't received Christ, you know, like now they are in this realm of the now and the not yet. Their sins have been for the elect. The sins have been canceled, but God will grant that they have faith at a certain time.

And then they will experience the forgiveness of God and justification, which is, uh, uh, being declared righteous. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I was, uh, confused cause I thought, I thought that, you know, you believe there was teaching that we got, you know, forgiven, uh, 2000 years ago. And then, then I was reading in Matthew six 15, where Jesus says, if you, uh, if you do not forgive men that trespasses, then father, I won't forgive you of your trespasses.

Yeah. But, uh, so, um, it just, uh, it just means that you're supposed to forgive people. And if you aren't forgiving, you won't be forgiven. A true Christian does forgive because that's the nature of what he is. He's a, he saved, he's been forgiven. So he forgives. And if you don't do that, you're not going to be forgiven.

It's because you're not saved. Okay. All right. Um, do, uh, uh, do, uh, true Christian struggle with forgiveness though?

Yeah. True Christians do. Well, I, um, I had someone in the family, uh, my family circle that I, I thought I had forgiven for years and then found out that I down deep, I hadn't had to deal with that. So, you know, we can go through the motion sometimes and not be as sincere as we think we are. We can even trick ourselves, but, uh, God's patient and God is kind and he doesn't just smack us down and, and, you know, he brings things to our awareness and we deal with them. So yeah, we struggle with forgiveness sometimes and, and forgiving and even being forgiven because sometimes we do things are so enough. We do things are so bad. We want to punish ourselves. We don't want to be forgiven.

How can you forgive yourself for that? You know, that kind of a thing. Oh yeah.

We struggle. Okay. Yeah. Um, uh, so, um, my, my, uh, second, second question would be, um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My second question, question definitely is this.

Okay. So, um, uh, uh, Michael Heiser, he, he did a podcast, uh, you know, you know, a while ago before he passed away and one of his arguments for why he believed, uh, it's not a problem for women to be priests or pastors was found, uh, I believe it was exited or 26 somewhere around there. I can't remember, but like, I'll, uh, I'll just like quote what happened and maybe you might know what verse it is.

It's where, it's where God was. I think about to kill Moses and then like a woman into like, I think, I think answers feed for Moses as a priest. No, she wasn't.

Yeah. And it was, uh, no, what it was was Moses did not circumcise his son. Zipporah, his wife did it and threw the foreskin at the feet of, of Moses.

And the angel is going to kill Moses. But, uh, with the circumcision that she did, uh, he was saved. So we don't, we don't know if the circumcision, the foreskin touched him because she threw it at his feet. So if it touched him, there's a sense in which the blood shed, which ultimately a circumcision points to Christ could have saved him.

So there's conjecture there, but that's all that's going on. And if that's what he uses, uh, to say, women could be pastors and elders, then I can just say, you can't trust him to exegete scripture properly. Cause that was, that'd be horrible to take a different context, different time, different place, and then superimpose it over the new Testament revelation as specifically as giving instruction on how people are behaving in the household of God.

You know, it'd be atrocious. Okay. If that's what he did. Yeah.

Yeah. His, his argument, he wasn't, he wasn't saying that she, she was an actual priest. He was saying that she was, she was functioning as a free, she was doing a priestly duty. And he said that, you know, God didn't have a problem with her doing it. God didn't have a problem doing priestly duty. It doesn't say she was doing a priestly duty.

It says that she cut the foreskin off and threw it at Moses feet. That's what it says. And so he's reading into the text. Yeah.

He's reading in the text way too much. And, uh, even if it were a priestly duty, let's just say hypothetically, it was, which I don't agree with because the priest has to be male in the Old Testament, can't be female. Okay. That's the order.

Okay. That'd be 30, which Jesus was, that's why he was baptized was to enter into the priesthood. And one of the requirements, according to the Old Testament law was to be the age of 30. And you had to be a male, women can't be priests. So it just wouldn't make any sense for him to say that. And if he did, if he did, I'd be surprised.

That would be horrible. And if that's what he's going to do, it still doesn't mean that, uh, the New Testament is now invalidated because, uh, you get a lot of banging in the background there or something, uh, because, uh, the priesthood is no longer in effect. So it just doesn't make any sense. People, what they'll often do is try and rest the scriptures, twist them to make them fit what they want it to say, because they want God to be with the way they want, you know, the, I call it the blonde hair, blue eye Caucasian surfer, Jesus, you know? So, but no women can not be pastors and elders.

Okay. Uh, uh, do you, uh, so like, so it's like, do you think, do you think women who are pastors and priests, do you think they're false teachers or false prophets? No, I wouldn't call them false teachers and false prophets. I would call them out of order, usurping a position that does not belong to them and they are in sin.

They need to step down. You need to find a man who can take that position properly and they need to not be pastors and elders. And furthermore, um, people who go to churches with women, pastors and elders should immediately stop going. And I know a lot of churches out there were within the earshot of my radio show out there on the East coast. I'll just offer this politely. I will come out, I'll fly out and we can have a debate discussion in front of your church on this and I'd be glad to do it.

I'd be glad to take a little tour up and down various cities, whatever, in order to teach on this. I would be happy to do that and teach on the biblical theological position, call men and women to repentance in this issue. Men, you're not supposed to support this, so you need to repent.

Women, you're not to be in that position. Need you to repent and then set up what's called a biblical position. And, uh, that's what I would offer to do. It's not arrogance on my part.

It's biblical fidelity. I'd be glad to do that. And I've offered for over 18 years of radio, I've said, uh, Hey, look, um, you know, I'll debate this issue on women, pastors and elders as the Bible support women, pastors and elders. Not a single person's ever taken me up on it.

And all of 18 years of radio, five days a week. Now, why is that? Because they know, I believe that they know I'll just trounce them with the word of God because I will. I'm going to go, this is what it says right here.

Why are you not doing it? Why does it say an elder has to be a, uh, yes, um, a man of one woman, a husband of one wife. How's a woman fit that bill? Tell me how that works. Oh, over here in Phoebe. That's, you know, Romans 16 one. I get that. What about this verse we're looking at?

You know, they don't want to do it because they're in rebellion against the word of God. Got to go, Elijah. Okay. All right, buddy, folks, wide open lines. You want to give me a call?

877-207-2276. And that's correct. Women are not supposed to be pastors, elders, or deacons. And if you don't believe me, you don't think it's biblical.

Call me up and we'll talk about it from the word of God. Be right back. Welcome back to the show. Hope you're enjoying the show.

Let's see. Let's get on the air with Mark from Ohio. Mark. Welcome. You are on the air. Yes, sir. Great show.

I enjoy it greatly. Um, my question concerns, uh, conflicting views on whether before Jesus was resurrected, he went to hell and preach or he didn't. And I don't have an opinion. So I'm still working on that one, like a lot of things.

So I'll hang up and get some, hang on. There's different theories. We don't know for sure. Exactly.

And I'll tell you the one I lean towards, but you know, I could change. But the thing is that during that period, it looks like he went and preached to the spirits now in prison. When you go to 1 Peter chapter three, verse, uh, uh, let's see verse 19 in which he made, uh, he was put to death in the flesh, made alive in the spirit in which he went and made proclamation of the spirits now in prison. So some think that when he died, he went to, uh, the there wherever there is and proclaimed mate didn't preach the gospel for them to be saved, but made a proclamation from the word carousel. And he preached, um, no, excuse me, not preached, but, uh, proclaimed or informed.

So that's one theory. And, uh, when you look at Luke 16, 19 through 31, where Lazarus and the rich man were there and they went to, uh, Abraham's bosom and he went to Abraham, went to the good man, went to Abraham's bosom. Well, some think that what was happening is before the crucifixion of Christ, people who died in faith when they died, went to paradise, which was also called Abraham's bosom. They could not enter into the celestial realm into heaven because the blood of Christ had not yet been offered. So once Jesus had been crucified, then it looks, one theory is that he went to Abraham's bosom and, uh, then took them up to heaven because it says in Ephesians four, eight, therefore it says when he ascended on high, he led captive, a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men. Now this expression, he ascended, what does it mean? Except that he also had descended into the lower parts of the earth.

So this is what it looks like. And some people think that hell, the hold of it might literally be in the, in the inside of the earth. I don't know, but, uh, it looks like at the very least he went and proc and made proclamation of those spirits. Uh, maybe the dead who died in the faith and then took him into heaven, made proclamation of the spirits, the bad spirits, the people who were in trouble, uh, and then reentered his body.

And that's, uh, at his resurrection. And that seems to be the case seems to be, but we're not sure. Okay. Well, you know, I, I appreciate trusting, um, a lot of people just need to adopt whether they really understand it or not. So I, uh, I sure appreciate it.

Yeah. You know, when I was in seminary, we went through four different theories of, of what happened in the interim. And I wrote them all down in the back of my Bible. And then I lost my Bible a year or so after seminary. I had all these great notes in it.

Oh man, still hurts. But, uh, there were four views and I forgot which, what the other three are, but this is the one I hold to. Uh, like I said, but I wouldn't die on that fence.

I would die on that hill. You know what I mean? Okay. I got it. Thank you very much. Yeah.

You should study it and then call back and tell me what you found. Well, I, I will do that. I, uh, and here's an add on to that question. Um, is there a, a designation or is, uh, okay. Is the hyper, I don't know if the proper term hyper grace, name it, claim it. If you're, you know, people say, if you're sick, then you're not in faith and all that.

Do they tend to lean one way? They tend to, and regarding our topic here, they tend to say, tend to say that Jesus went to hell and suffered in hell and finished the atonement there. That is blasphemy.

That is a false doc. Yes. So some of them will say that. Okay. And because Jesus says it is finished and he said it on the cross, John 1930, that's where the atonement was finished.

He did not go to hell, suffer in hell, et cetera, and then finished the atonement there as, um, Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland have said, which makes them heretics. Right. Okay. Absolutely. Yep. We agree on that one, sir.

Thank you very much. That's because you're so smart. You see, that's why. Okay. Well, um, there's people that's going to dispute that, but thank you. No problem, man. God bless. Yep.

All right. That was Mark from Ohio. And, uh, let's get to Ethel from Ohio. Hey, Ethel.

Welcome. You're on here. Are you there? Hello? Yes, I am. Yes, I am. I can hear you.

Yeah. I was just listening to your uh, radio show and I heard, um, you say that women cannot be pastors or elders. And I'd like for you to give me some scriptures. And then I'd also like to say, who are we to say who God has called to preach or teach, whether they're male or female, judging. God is the one.

God's the one who does it. So let's look at the word of God. Okay.

So why does me and why does me and why can I, can I, can I answer your question and actually look at the word? Let's see what the word of God says. Okay. So Paul, the apostle in first Timothy three 15 says he's giving instruction on how people are to behave in that and conduct themselves in the household of God, the church. So it's giving instruction in first Timothy on what people are to do in the church. Okay.

That's what he says. Paul, the apostle first Timothy two 12, he says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet for it was Adam who was first created and then Eve. So Paul doesn't permit it. Okay. There's one, just one of many.

It's not God or Jesus. Oh, okay. So let me ask you. So when Paul, the apostle, who's called by Jesus gives instruction to the church, we're not to take it seriously. Is that what you're saying? Um, yeah, I'm not saying every word. I'm not just like you or I, he might say something and we might be called by God, but okay. Well, let me ask you, hold on, hold on. Were you called, were you called by the Lord Jesus Christ and knocked off your horse and blinded and then told to go to someone to be baptized and then spend years with him in the desert and have the vision of God himself, the Lord Jesus Christ, who then calls you to be, to be an apostle to the Gentiles and to give instruction on the church.

Does that fit you? Obviously not. What makes you think that you can stand above the word of God given through Paul the apostle? Oh, what makes you think that you cannot do that?

I'm not doing it. I'm repeating what Paul the apostle, when you're saying to your audience that men or women cannot pass through the elders. Ethel, I'm repeating to you what Paul the apostle said. Who are you to say he's wrong? Are you saying Paul the apostle is wrong? I'm not saying he's wrong. Hold on Ethel, is he right? If he's not wrong, then he's right. Would you agree that he's right?

If he's right, but he's not right, he could not always be right in everything, you know, because they were not perfect. Which church do you go to? Ethel, which church do you go to? Well, right now I'm not going anywhere. No, I'm not Methodist.

No. I said United Methodist, or how about United Pentecostal, or maybe you go to Episcopalian Church, or other false churches? I visit different churches. Ethel, we have a break. We have a hard break. I want you to hold on because I'm going to show you more scripture that says a woman cannot be pastors and elders. All right. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Please stay tuned.

Let's hope she repents and believes the truth. We'll be right back after these messages. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's see if Ethel's still on.

Are you still there, Ethel? I certainly am. Okay, so I'm discerning that you have trouble submitting to the Word of God. No, no, I would never.

No, that's not a kid at all. Yes, you do. What I'm saying is 1 Timothy 3 15 has been taken out of context. He was talking to a specific group of people, and that seems to have been taken out of a scripture that I have read and believed. Who's the group of people that he was talking to? Well, give me the scriptures.

But if you say it's out of context, apparently you already know what the context is, otherwise you wouldn't know if it's in or out of context. And you said it was written to people, so who's it written to? I know exactly who it was written to.

I do. I just need other scriptures from you in terms of why women can't be pastors or elders. Okay, I'll show you, but it wasn't written to people. It was written to Timothy, one person. Paul was writing to Timothy, and he charged Timothy with the responsibility of appointing elders and bishops in the church. That's what he was saying. And so when you go on to 1 Timothy 3, he says an overseer, because he's giving instruction to Timothy, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.

Okay, that's what he says. And then when he talks to Titus, Paul gives instruction to Titus also. Oh, by the way, in 1 Timothy 5 17, an elder, a pastor who teaches, is an elder. It says, give double honor to all of the elders, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So a preacher, pastor, is by default an elder, according to the scriptures. And it says, Paul says to Titus in Titus 1 5, for this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely if a man's above reproach, the husband of one wife. How does a woman become an elder, pastor, and also be a husband of one wife?

How's that work? Well, I still say, the scriptures that you have just given me have been taken out of context. And I will call you again tomorrow. Ethel, what is the context?

What is the context then? Would you mind if I give you a call tomorrow and share with you some other, on this same subject? Sure, you can, you can, but I would just suggest you read Timothy and Titus because those are the verses, those are the places I'll go to, and both of those epistles clearly restrict women from the office of being an elder. Clearly. So you have to make a decision. You have to decide if you're going to submit yourself to the word of God or not.

Yes, yes, and that's exactly what I think women who are pastors have done. And like I said, who are we to say who God has called you? That's the wrong issue.

It's not us deciding it. I'm informing people what God has already said through the apostles. That's all. Just letting you know what it says. And I think that's out of, I still say that's out of context. Well, I'll tell you what then. Why don't you read those epistles tonight and or tomorrow and call me back on the radio show and tell me what the context really is. So that the context then means that when an elder is to be the husband of one wife, now the context means it's not required that an elder be the husband of one wife. So that's what you know.

Any pastors that have been husbands of one wife, or do you know pastors who have had been married two or three times? Yes. Does that matter to you? Does that matter to you? Yes, it does matter. Yes, it does matter. Yes, it is important.

I do know men in different situations and have gone through the theology to discuss it and stuff, but I do know that the Bible restricts women from being pastors and elders and any woman pastor and elder in the United States here, you know, in this position is out of order and in rebellion against the word of God and needs to repent. Okay. I'll call you back tomorrow. I'll call you back tomorrow. Okay.

Please do. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for calling. All right.

Okay. Let's jump over to Eric from Charlotte, North Carolina. Eric, welcome.

You are on the air. All my love to your brother, Matt. Thanks for your ministry. Amen. Thanks. Appreciate it. Making me smile. I like that.

Amen. Two questions I got if time permits and I may have to call for later depending on uh, how you want to answer up. First question I have is how do you, um, uh, define mind? What is mind to you?

Well, it's that place where we think or self-aware, things like that. Okay. Pretty much it. That's pretty much the way you understand a mind. Yeah.

Pretty much. I mean, we can get into other stuff, but yeah. So is mind, you said the way we think and such is mind the same thing as our spirit?

It, uh, I could say yes. It's used interchangeably. Uh huh. And then there's the Bible will say mind and spirit and it'll say, you know, in your mind be transformed by transfer. You know, the work of your, in your spirit. So it uses them separated, separated and also interchangeably. Well, okay. Since you said both ways, interchangeably and separately, the separate way then if it's separate, wouldn't that be distinct from the spirit? Because in other words, there are some, uh, there, there, there may be some overlap.

I got that. But if there's interchangeably and sometimes separate, wouldn't that make that a distinct aspect of our being? It would have to depend on what is being said and how it's being used. We have to look at the context to decide, to decide. Well, that's, but that's my point.

That depends. I'm leaning to the decide that the, the depends side where it's, that it seems separate or distinct from the spirit. All I can say is at this point, I'd have to say, I get you.

We would then have to look at specific scriptures because without looking at them to have a very definitive understanding of how they can be used and not just the word mind and not just the word spirit, but both and to see if and where they overlap and with the word heart to see how it's all used. And then we, we make a theory on how they're used interchangeably. Okay. Well, I think one thing that is clear, I believe we are humans from the moment of conception. Uh, I don't know if you agree to that.

Of course we are good stuff. Yeah. Well, well, well then if that be the case, then from the moment of conception, there isn't a mind. There's a cell that is obviously, you know, go ahead. That assumes the idea of what's called property dualism. If there's only one cell and so to speak, and there's no mind, then that assumes then that the mind is a product of the physical and it's a problem because if you say that there's logical problems with that, which I can show you, but if we say that the mind, that place of what we are, that's self-aware and things and things like that, that's part of being human, then that will be part of the human creation at, at inception. It's just not manifested maturely yet until we're born. Well, that I think the mind is something that forms with the physical growth of that baby and so on or the person versus the spirit was there from the very second.

The spirit, it seems to me, and you can correct me, that the spirit is pretty much the life force, that which is the thing that gives us life. And that is what is recognized by God as the individual. That life obviously then physically grows and that physical part includes the mind, but the mind itself is at that point isn't, isn't even existing, but the spirit is there because I'm sorry.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but let me ask you, have you done a word study? Have you done a word study where you go in and you find every instance of the word mind, every instance of the word spirit, and then you see what God has said and then you conclude based on that. So you look at this Ephesians 4 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind. That is correct. That's what I shared with you the last time I spoke with you on that when I brought that up because where was that? And that made me, made me see that there was a distinction and it's that distinction that is so critical that, uh, that, that I think we fail to acknowledge and just obviously when it speaks of the spirit of your mind, uh, when it speaks of that in Hebrews where it says the word of God, um, uh, divides even a thunder, the soul and the spirit.

Obviously there's a difference. Hold on. We've got a break coming up. I'm going to give this recommendation for you after the break. Okay.

I think it would be very helpful, but hold on. Uh, we got a break. So, Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

We have two open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Eric. Are you still there?

Hello, my brother. All right. So look, during the break, um, I did a quick, uh, study very, very quick. There's two words for the word mind. Naas and Deanoia. Naas occurs 24 times. Deanoia occurs 12 times. The word heart or Kardia 157 times.

Spirit 379 times. And I didn't, I didn't have time to go through the rest of them. I'm just saying is that I've learned something. I learned that God has meanings hidden in the patterns of the usage of his words. So if I were to do a study and say, well, let's find a relationship between spirit, mind, heart, things like that. What I would do is I really literally do this. I've done maybe a hundred of these studies like this for real.

Okay. And I would take, I'd find every instance of Naas, every instance of Deanoia, Kardia, Numati, and I would put them into an Excel spreadsheet. I'm kind of anal and I'll sit there for hours and read every scripture, look at the context and go through and categorize them. And then what I'll do is I'll look for commonalities between them. I'll see, Hey, this one's used the same way.

This one, this word's different than that one, even though they're the same two different words. And so then I'll learn that way. I would suggest you do something like that before you make up your mind and what you think the words mean and how they're used.

Right. Well, a lot of work, but I'll tell you, there's a reward for in it. The reward is you will be taught from what God teaches and you will be far less likely to impose on the text what you think it's supposed to say. Well, I don't necessarily want to impose anything uh, upon the word of God. Um, but the, the, the, the, the thing that I'm trying to say, it seems to be, and even the way you answered initially says, well, it depends. And, and it seems to me, there is a clear distinction between the spirit and the mind. It seems to be a very clear distinction to me, maybe not to you, but I'm only using this, referring to speaking this way because when you answered, well, it depends and I'm leaning, I'm only speaking to the side of the depends where it is clear, not the side where it's ambiguous or they seem to be interchangeable. I'm only speaking to the other way. So that is an acknowledgement on your part. There seems to be a distinction between one's spirit, which again, I think it is referring to that life force that God specifically places into the human, but the mind is something that is where there's a reasoning behind it.

But it just seems to me to be a distinction and I can't see why it's not a distinction. What I would suggest is do that study. It would take you a few days to do that simple study.

Do you go to blueletterbible.com, you find the word spirit, you find out what it is in Greek, do a search, you extract all of the results and you do an analysis. It's laborious. It takes work. It takes time. It's difficult. I've done maybe a hundred studies like this and almost every single time I've learned something.

Sometimes I learned that there was really nothing there to find, but a lot of times I've learned things that I never even thought would be part of the analysis. Well, for what you're saying to be true, you would have to therefore conclude to hold the position that you're telling me if I'm wrong, but you would have to conclude that the word mind is the spirit to you. They are the same.

No, no. What I'm saying is what I would do is I would study it first. I said there seems to be places where they're used interchangeably and there seems to be places that are distinct. So then therefore it is safe to say that you are somewhat still unsure.

Is that fair? Because even you do believe personally that they are one and the same or you are not sure, which is a safe place to be. No, no, no, no. I'm saying from what I've seen, sometimes they are the same and sometimes they're not. So for me to verify that I would do a study like that.

I literally would. I used to teach Excel, so I know how to do stuff in Excel. I can take my Bible program, I can find all the words like I just did for the word spirit, which is numati, which unfortunately is a huge number of occurrences in the New Testament, 379. Sure. It's sort of like the word soul. Sometimes the word soul is used to refer to the whole person. Sometimes I know that interchangeable way in which you can do that. But when you say sometimes it's not, that's the part I'm trying to appeal to you to say the times that it's not, then that's when you are clearly saying it is a distinction.

I'm only referring to that side. But you see, I'm trying to tell you, you have to do a study. Just do a study.

And the word for soul is tsuke, and it occurs 104 times in the Bible. Most people are not willing to do studies like this to learn. And I am, if I have to study something like this, I will, and I don't mind doing it. The thing is that I'm just saying, sometimes yes, sometimes no. At this point, if you want to really learn, you need to do a study on how God uses it. That's what I'm saying.

That's what you should do. I have done some pretty different studies. My point to you is, are you saying that I need to study in the same way that you have, and you have come to a conclusion that it is not the same, or it is? I'm saying this, I'm saying I've never done a study comparing the asdianoia, cardia, numati, or tsukes, which are all these words that are interchangeably kind of used. I've not done a study of all of them and then tried to find commonalities between them so that I can then say officially this is what the position I hold to because of this. I've not done that. It's a lot of work, and I have so many things I'm working on all the time. I only grease the wheel that's squeaky.

So that's not an issue I've had to deal with. But I can tell you that over the years, many years, that sometimes I've seen these things are used interchangeably sometimes with distinction. At that point, I've already told you, I would suggest go do a word study. They're called word studies.

People do them. You see how God has used the word. You find the semantic domain. And then what you do is you categorize them, like the word world. Okay, cosmos has five different meanings at least. Okay.

I got it, Matt. The only point that I'm trying to make to that is on the distinction side that you see that it is. That proves that it is. That's all I'm saying. Maybe it does.

Maybe it doesn't. I'm saying this is what I've seen. I've not done a study to prove it. This is where I'm at.

In order to be absolutely sure, I'd have to do the study first. That's all I'm saying. Would it be fair then for you nor anyone else to conclude and stand by the point in saying we are absolutely just a dichotomy in our being?

Because that's the position. I keep telling you the same thing. And you keep trying to force something. I'm telling you, do the study and you'll find stuff out. I've not done that kind of study on those particular words yet.

But what I've seen is one thing and another, and it would need to be verified. That's all I can tell you. Okay? Go study. I agree. I agree to study. We've got other callers.

We're good. I got you, but I think there was a little bit of confusion in what you think I was hearing from you. But I got you. Okay, man. Do a study.

Let me know what you find, okay? We'll both study. I'll study.

You study. We're good. Bye-bye. Okay. And we'll see you, Eric. Okay, talk to you later. God bless. All right. Let's get over to Alberto from Georgia.

Alberto, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, just a quick question. The word if in the New Testament, I heard some Charles Stanley say the word if, it means like a, it's not a threat, like an affirmation. So what's the proper Greek meaning of the word if in Greek?

It's epsilon e or ei, excuse me, ei, okay? Mainly. So it just means what it means in context, okay? It implies a condition which, you know, the condition must be determined and things like this.

It's conditional. That's all. Okay. So it's not like Charles Stanley says it's not a threat, but more of an affirmation? The word affirmation? No.

Okay. It's not a threat. It says, but you know, if he says it's if in a particular context it might be, okay?

But therefore, if Joshua had given them rest, all right, that's Hebrews 4-8. There's the word. Is that a threat? No. It has a semantic domain. That's all it is.

And let me do a check here. This is the 3-7-6-7 in Strong's. It of course, it occurs 496 times in the New Testament. And it's rendered as therefore, so, so then, let's see, what else? Then, no, I just did the wrong one.

Oh, I did the wrong one. 3-3-7-9. It's therefore, hang on. Okay. So 3-3-7-9, whoops.

And all as good as your fingers. 32 times that particular form is used, okay? So that, otherwise not, so that, whether, okay? So it's used in different ways, okay?

Okay. Like in the verse where it says, if indeed you continue the space, if indeed you continue the space. So that's a conditional thing or does it have an affirmation?

I'd have to look at it to see, but see, this is exactly the kind of thing I talk about when I'm doing word studies. It's a great example, the word if. In different places, it's going to have different meanings. It might mean conditional. It might mean a protracted period. It might mean several things. And that's one of the things I enjoy doing is actually learning about those things. Me, I got issues.

I like doing that kind of stuff. And that word's a good example because it has a variety of meanings. Like today, if you hear his voice, well, that's the word aeon, okay?

Epsilon alpha nu. So there's different words for if in Greek too. And that word occurs, hold on a second, let's see how many times it occurs in the Bible.

One, four, three, seven. It occurs 335 times. So you have two different Greek words so far that I've seen and they're used roughly 350 times combined. So what does it mean? Well, it has a semantic domain, has a range of meaning in different contexts. Sometimes it's conditional, maybe. Sometimes it is an absolute. Sometimes it's a warning.

Sometimes it is a blessing. Who knows? Okay. Okay. So do the whole context. There you go. Read the context. That's what I say. Do it. Learn what it means that way. It's a lot of work sometimes. Me, I enjoy doing that.

So that's either a defect or a blessing. I don't know which one yet. All right. Okay, brother. All right. Thank you, sir. All right, man. God bless.

Okay. Jacob from Minnesota. We are out of time. Really? We got a little bit, Jacob. We got like half a minute. About half a minute.

You had a question on Psalm 82? I do. Okay. What's your question? Let's see if I can get to it. Do you know the scholarship of Michael Heizer? Yes.

We only have a little bit of time. Let me jump in. Michael Heizer's talked about this, the Council of the Gods. There are no plurality of gods. There are no other gods.

There's only one. And I can go into that quite a bit. And also, if you read this Psalm, it's an imprecatory Psalm, a Psalm of curse and condemnation upon the unrighteous judges.

Read verses six and seven to see that nevertheless you'll die like men. Check it out. Call back tomorrow. We have more time. We'll get to it. Okay. All right, buddy. All right. Okay, man.

And Carolyn from North Carolina. Call back tomorrow. I enjoy when the ladies call.

I live in a ladies call. Hey, if you want to give me a call, you got a will tomorrow. And by then, hopefully that's really good stuff. So may the Lord bless you. Tonight, I teach Bible study. Look forward to it. Rumble. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.