Matt Slick Live

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live!

For answers, take in your calls and respond to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

You're listening to Matt Slick Live! Today is June 26, 2023, for the podcasters. I hope you can enjoy listening to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. And if you want, you can email me.

If you don't want to call, you can email me at info at karm.org. And if you are a newbie and wondering what the show is about, it's kind of a different show. It's Christian-based, of course. I'm a Christian apologist, which means I defend the Christian faith. And I discuss all kinds of topics from evolution, philosophy, universals, the one and the many issue, Trinitarianism, divine simplicity, paracritic relationship of the inter-Trinitarian persons, hypostatic union, communicatio idiomatum, justification, imputation, sanctification, eternal security, Reformed theology, Arminianism, dispensationalism, covenant theology, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i Islam, Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox, UFOs, and the occult. That's just some of the stuff we talk about that I have studied off and on for years. So if that sounds confusing, okay. But as a Christian apologist, I like to study everything.

I really do enjoy it. In fact, last night I was in bed and I'm just scanning through the Gospels, looking at verses that show the deity of Christ from a different perspective. And this is something I'm working on because the Unitarians are on the rise. Unitarians, what are they? It's a false religious system and it teaches there is no Trinity and Jesus is not God in flesh. And so it's a cult. It's a cultic theology, though it's not a specific church or denomination that holds to that as a group and you're a member of it.

But the idea is permeating more and more of Christian thought and those who just don't know biblical theology, don't know the scriptures, succumb to it. So I'm working on answering stuff like that. And let's see, I've been debating them off and on impromptu discussions and it's really hard to have good discussions with them. I've got 26 pages of notes.

That's not very much. I might do outlines. And I just spent a half hour, an hour going through verses examined and putting them in order. I have 47 of them that I'll be looking at for all of this kind of stuff as well as stuff on the Holy Spirit. There's just so much, you know, and I have a great privilege of being able to study God's word, to think about it, to contemplate it, to muse on it, to be instructed out of it, to be disciplined by it, to be corrected and all of that, as well as by God's grace to be able to help others, which I really enjoy doing. I'm not saying get all the answers, but I have some answers and sometimes people call me up, ask me a question I don't know an answer to and I say, hey, good question. I don't know the answer to that one. And I usually try and find an answer and then sometimes people show me new things in scripture I've not seen.

And that's fine too. I've been doing this since 1980, so that's 43 years answering questions, teaching theology, defending the faith and stuff like that. We talk about all kinds of things. Hope you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Now, because nobody's call, there's someone coming in, we do have a lot of questions that people ask. They'll email them to info at karm.org, you know, radio questions, something like that, radio comment. And I'll read them on the air and comment. Let's see, here's one I'll whittle the collar, kind of gets in with the notes and stuff.

This is an email. Hey, Matt, I'm curious how Buddhism, which doesn't believe in an infinite creator like the triune God of Christianity, and apparently believes that the universe is just cyclical going back into infinity itself, deals with the impossibility of an actual infinite. I'm also interested in just what exactly they anchor morality in.

Yeah, I agree with you. How do they deal with actual infinites? Now, for those who don't know what that is, let me illustrate a potential infinite and then an actual infinite. A potential infinite is, for example, you have a set of dominoes, and you have a start point, and you knock them over.

And for as long as the dominoes keep going, you have an addition. So it has the potential of being an infinite number of dominoes that have knocked down. So at any time with the potential infinite, you can stop and measure how many occurrences have happened since the beginning. A potential infinite has a starting point.

And so you can measure the starting point to any time reference, to say this is when, you know, we'll stop here and count how many events, how many whatever, how many seconds. An actual infinite doesn't have a beginning. It doesn't have an end. And they are logically difficult when we look at something like, for example, a point on a line, or say a line a foot long, how many points are on a line? Well, there's an infinite number. If you take half that number or half that length and you count how many points are on there, that's also an infinite number. Well, how do you have a half of an infinite equal to the whole of the infinite? This is kind of a problem. So there's no beginning point of definitions of the number of points that can exist on a line.

So this is why it's a difficulty. Or how about the idea, as the Buddhists teach, that the universe is infinitely old cyclically. It goes back in a cycle, infinitely in passing time. Well, if that's the case, it means an infinite amount of time has been traversed to get to now. But you can't traverse an infinite amount of time.

You just can't. So it's difficult to see how that infinite cycle thing works. Also, I use this, when they say there's an infinite number of cycles, say a Buddhist would say to me, okay, so there's an infinite number of universes that have happened in the past. I said, oh, so that means Buddhism is false. And they said, no, no, no, no.

That's the position we hold to. I says, yeah, I get that, which means Buddhism is false. And they'll say, well, what do you mean? Because if there's an infinite number of universes out there that have occurred in the past, because it's gone an infinite amount of time, then there's a universe where everybody in the planet Earth has soundly refuted the idea of Buddhism saying it's false. So therefore it's false. That means your perspective means that it casts doubt on its own perspective. You see how it doesn't work like that? You see?

It's a problem. Stuff like that. You use simple logic, which a lot of people are not prepared for. I use a lot of logic when I'm talking to people.

I have a lot more to learn about it, but there you go. And what do they anchor the morality in? Well, since they have no infinite universal absolute, they don't have an objective moral standard. And that will be another discussion they have with them.

I would like to discuss that with some Buddhists on what morality is, where it comes from. Let's get to David from, let's see, someplace. Dave, North Carolina, I think.

Where are you from? I mean, how are you doing, Dave? You're on the air. Hey, man. Are you there? Hi. Yeah, I'm right here. Okay, man.

So what do you got, buddy? I'm on my way to a Bible study, and we're studying Isaiah 26 and 27. And in Isaiah 27, there is a, I think the first three I'm driving right now, I can't recall it. Talking about leviathan.

Yeah, first one. I've had a lot of questions about leviathan, demons, UFOs. I've heard you mention before that you might think that UFOs have something to do with demons, and leviathan being a sea creature, according to that verse, or being in the sea, is there any correlation between leviathan, UFOs, and demons?

No, I don't believe so. The leviathan was just a sea-dwelling creature. And let's see if I get my references for that. I think it was, basically it's a dinosaur.

Now, a lot of people say that dinosaurs never lived with man, but that's just, there's too much evidence to the contrary of that. But anyway, when we go back to Job 40, let's see, Job 40, and look at leviathan. Leviathan, I think that's where it is. And we go to Job, come on, did I hit that right thing there?

I don't know if I did that or not. So there we go. Whoops. Anyway, it talks about two creatures, one that's land-based and one that is water-based. Job 41, 1, can you draw out leviathan with a fish hook or press down his tongue with a cord or put a rope around his nose and jaw with a hook?

And it goes on, we make a covenant with him. Can you fill his skin with harpoons or his head with fishing spears? The implication is, no, you can't. Now, can you do that to a crocodile?

Yeah, you can. But there's something here that's being spoken of that says, no, you can't do these things. And let's see, remember the battle, you'll not do it again. Who will strip out his outer armor and his double mail? Who can open the doors of his face, that is, his teeth, there's terror. And it goes on and on and it even says this in verse 19, which is really interesting, out of his mouth go burning torches, sparks of fire leap forth. Now, it says, he sneezes flash forth light and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning, out of his mouth go burning torches, sparks of fire leap forth.

Out of his nostrils go smoke. So you know the ancient Chinese dragons, the fire-breathing dragons? Well, perhaps it's something here that was spoken about in the book of Job. Book of Job is the oldest book in the Bible. It was written first chronologically as far as which book was first penned on paper. It was the book of Job. Moses later wrote the pen that took the five books.

So Job is an older style of Hebrew as well. And so I'm of the opinion that this is support of creatures that lived a long time with man and there's lots of other scientific evidence for this as well. And I suspect it might be a fire-breathing creature of a dinosaur sort that was able to do that. There's a beetle right now called a bombardier beetle and it mixes two chemicals in its abdomen and it puts forth fire.

It explodes as a defense mechanism. So this kind of stuff exists in nature. So anyway, I don't believe it is a demonic force. I believe it's just a, in my opinion, it's a creature.

One of the creatures God made and eventually when extinct we assume. Okay. I was just real curious, but some of the guys in the Bible study think that is a reference to Satan and Sel. No. No.

No. Just go through, just go through Job 40. You should just do that. Just stop the study for a bit and go to chapter 40 and 41.

And then just do an exercise. Have somebody write down a piece of pencil, paper, whatever, that which is for Leviathan, that which is for Behemoth. And Behemoth eats grass like an ox, strength like in his loin, muscles of his belly. So he's land-based.

The water-based one is different. So why can't they be dinosaurs? And don't assume. Don't assume what the secularists say that dinosaurs are 60 million years prior to mankind.

It's not the case. They're finding soft tissue in dinosaur bones. And that just doesn't work for 60 million years.

It does not work. There are many accounts of people in jungles, people who have just grown up in jungles in the middle of nowhere. They have seen pictures in books of dinosaurs. They laugh until they see one or two and they point out in the same direction, out into the jungle. They're pointing to the picture and then out there. So things like this occur, plus there are pictographs of dinosaurs in caves.

And this kind of information is suppressed. So we've got a break. So hold on and we'll get back to you after the break.

Okay, we've got a hard break here. Hey folks, three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 8772072276. We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back everybody. If you want to give me a call, 8772072276. Dave, you still there? Yes, sir. Yes, I am. Alright, so I was just reviewing during the break an article I wrote, our dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible.

I wrote it back in 2009. And you can go there and you can check it out. You can see there's a land base and water base. Okay, great. Do you have any more callers waiting? We've got one, but I've got time for another question.

What's up? I just listened to a commentary today and it mentioned the seven churches in Revelation. What are the seven churches in Revelation? They were the churches that were alive at the time that Revelation was written. They were actually locations. And I've actually been to all seven locations in Turkey. So there are actual remains and stuff like that from them.

That's what it is. Seven churches. Okay. Alright, great.

Well, thank you, Matt. I'll try to look that up at the Leviathan. Just look up, go to karm.org.

Just look up our dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible and you'll see an article. And you can go right there to Job 40 and 41. Just read them and you'll see. Alright, thank you. Alright. God bless, man.

Let me know how it goes. Okay. Alright.

Four open lines. You want to give me a call? 8772072276. Luke from Washington. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt.

This is Luke from Washington, DC. My question is first Samuel 28, 7 to 20. Did the witch of Endor really summon Samuel from the dead? There's debate on that.

I'm of the opinion that he did. It wasn't that she actually summoned him but that he was allowed to really be him. She was familiar with what's called familiar spirits. And it was the real one. And then she was terrified because it was really him. So it does seem to be that it was really him.

Okay. So this is the way Catholics can pray to the dead because even the magician can bring the spirit, Samuel's spirit. He can talk to Samuel so that he can pray to the dead.

Yeah, that's foolishness. In First Samuel 28, it's a witch and witchcraft that is being used. If the Catholics want to use First Samuel 28 as a justification for praying to their saints and Mary, then they're involved in the occult. Because we're not to pray to anybody other than God. I had a big discussion about this yesterday, believe it or not, with some Catholics. And they don't know how to answer the difficult questions.

They fumble. So, yeah. Okay.

Bad news, sir. Do you know ARP, a Presbyterian church called ARP? I'm not familiar with it.

Okay. This is a reformed church. Like last time I saw evangelical reformed church, another church is called Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church. There is one church in Maryland. This church is called Atonement Presbyterian Church. I don't know what they believe. Well, I just did a search for it, an evangelical reformed church that came up with Sovereign Grace Fellowship. So I'm thinking that they changed their name. The ERC, it was formed in 1934, just looking at some stuff.

So I don't know off the top of my head, but if the ERC became the Sovereign Grace Movement, the Sovereign Grace Movement, at least my encounters with it 30 years ago, was good. But I can't tell you everything. It's called Associate Reformed Church. It's called Associate Reformed Church. It's hard to understand everything. It's hard to understand what you're saying.

Say it again. It's called Associate Reformed Church. Yeah, I don't know. I couldn't tell you. I would have to do a study on what they believe.

I would have to go through and study their main website, then look at individual churches, email them, ask them doctoral questions. It just takes a long time, and first I've heard of them. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. God bless. Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. If you want to give me a call, you can also email me info at karm.org, the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.

You can email me there with a comment or a question, and I sometimes read them on the air and get to your call or your question. Just looking at how many visitors we've had, in two days it'll be 157 million visitors. Just looking at the rate we're going. All right, why don't we get to, let's see, Bob from Louisiana, I guess, or L.A.? I don't know.

Which one? Hey, Bob, you're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey.

This is Bob. I talked to you last week, and you told me that I was going to hell. Do you still think that? Aren't you the one who denies Jesus Christ as God in flesh, right? I said that Jesus was anointed by God, and while Jesus was filled with the Spirit, in that sense, God was in his place. Okay, so you deny that Jesus himself is God in flesh, so that means you're of the Spirit of the Antichrist. Okay, go to 1 John 4. How can I be Antichrist if I am preaching the gospel of Christ? An atheist can preach the gospel of Christ. Okay, so look.

Not sufficiently. So Jesus is prayed to in the Bible. Do you agree? I don't see anybody praying to Jesus in the Bible. John 7, 55-60, there's a, Stephen's being stoned, and he has a vision, and he sees the glory of God, and Jesus, sending the right hand, and who does he pray to there?

I see it more of a statement. Okay, so he says, he says, he said, the heavens opened up, et cetera, and the Son of Man, and he cried out, and he said, Lord Jesus received my Spirit. Okay, so he addressed his prayer as addressed to Jesus, right?

According to what's written there, it looks and appears that way. Okay, so also in Psalm 116, 4, they call upon the name of Yahweh. That's a prayer, because he says, they call upon the name of Yahweh.

Oh, Yahweh, I beseech you, save my life. It's a prayer. And so, that's translated into the Greek, call upon the name of the Lord. The phrase, call upon the name of the Lord, is a reference only to God Almighty, and that phrase is used of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 1, 2.

Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus. So that's a phrase used of worship and adoration. Furthermore, Jesus says in John 14, 14, ask me anything in my name, and I will do it. So Jesus is telling you to pray to him. So the Jesus of the Bible is prayed to, but your Jesus is not prayed to. You don't have the right to Jesus. Man, man, according to me, man, okay.

I have to answer what I said. I just showed you from the scriptures, Jesus is prayed to. You don't pray to Jesus, because you don't believe that he's going to be prayed to, but the Bible he's prayed to.

Why do you not do what they did in the Bible? We'll be right back after these messages, please. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. Okay, let's get back to Bob. Are you still there?

Yes, sir, I'm still here, thank you. Okay, I showed you where Jesus is prayed to in the Bible. So why do you continue to reject it? I wanted to see if you saw where Jesus taught his disciples to pray. Okay, yes, he said that in Matthew 6, Luke 11, pray to our Father who art in heaven. That's correct, we acknowledge that, we accept that, but in addition to it, Jesus talks about people praying to himself and people do that.

So, you don't want to set Scripture against Scripture. Since we acknowledge that the Father is prayed to and Jesus instructed that, we do not see that he said only pray to him, because Jesus says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it, John 14, 14. And he is prayed to, and Stephen addresses his prayer to Jesus in Acts 7, 50, 50, 5-60. So, the Jesus of the Bible is a true Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible is prayed to, and you don't pray to him.

So tell me, how is your understanding of Jesus correct? If you don't pray to him and the people of the Bible who knew him did, how come? Because I pray to my Father in heaven.

You're not answering the question, why do they instruct people to do that, to pray to him? Do you do what Jesus says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it? Do you ask Jesus?

No, I just ask my Father. Okay, so then the Jesus you believe in is not prayed to, and the Jesus the Bible is worshiped, Matthew 2, 2, 2, 11, 14, 33, 28, 9, John 9, 35-38, Hebrews 1, 6. Do you worship Jesus? I worship my Father, Matt. Okay, so you don't worship Jesus.

And he's called God. In Acts 20, 28, Thomas said to Jesus, the Lord of me and the God of me, he said that to Jesus. Jesus didn't correct him. And God the Father calls Jesus God in Hebrews 1a.

But of the Son he says, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. So, you don't call Jesus God, you don't worship him and you don't pray to him. Therefore, this is the problem you have, you don't know the true Christ. And the true Jesus is the one who reveals the Father, Matthew 11, 27. No one knows the Son except the Father, no one knows the Father except the Son, and to whom the Son wills to reveal him. So, if you don't have the true Jesus, you'll never know the true Father. You'll never have the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is sent by the Son. So, you have to have the right Jesus.

You don't. I just proved it. We're going to move along. Alright, so now let's get to, let's do this, Julian from California. Julian, welcome. You're on the air. Julian, Julian, Julian, I'm waiting for you.

I don't hear anything. I'm pausing in a few seconds. Julian. Alright, let's just go on to Juanita. We'll get back to Julian a little bit. Juanita, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, thank you.

Thank you, Matt. I just want to, I had a question, but I wanted to comment on that other caller, that I agree we're not supposed to worship Jesus, and Jesus taught us to pray to the Father in his name, in his authority. Then why did Jesus say, ask me anything in my name and I will do it?

Because asking something in somebody's name, or asking that person are two different things. So let me get to my question. Hold on a sec.

You brought it up. I'm going to respond. So he says, if you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. So do you ask Jesus to do anything? Everything has been given by the Father to our Lord Jesus.

I got that. Let me ask you another question. Do you ask Jesus to do anything?

That's the question. Do you ask Jesus to do anything? Because Jesus says, if you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

So how is it that that's the case? Do you ask Jesus anything? I ask and I pray to God. Now whether asking something and praying to God, Jesus taught us how to pray.

You're not listening. I get it. He said, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. You go to Matthew 6. You go to Luke 11. I understand that.

We went over to the same caller. I'm asking a very specific question. I'm asking a question I know you can't answer from your perspective, and it's designed to show you that your perspective is wrong because the Jesus of the Bible commands us. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. So how is Jesus going to do something? If he's not God in flesh, how is he going to do and accomplish what the prayers of millions of people are to him? How is he going to do that?

Can you answer that? Jesus isn't God in the flesh. He's the Word of God in the flesh.

So here we go. He says, if you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. Can you ask Jesus anything in his name for him to do it? We ask in Jesus' name.

You're not listening. If he says, if you ask me, that means ask Jesus. Can you ask Jesus?

Can you do that? What scripture is that again? Because I find you misquote scripture.

Oh, you do, huh? Oh, okay. John 14, 14. Okay, I just want to double check here because we can, John 14, 14.

Okay. It says, and whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask anything in my name, I will do it. So we're told to ask in his name, and somehow that is important to do. And he will do it, but I don't think we're praying to Jesus. I'm going to read the Greek to you.

He will do it. I will read the Greek. Okay. It says right here, if you ask me anything in my name, that's what the Greek says. If you ask me anything, that's what it says right there.

Okay? Uh-huh. So you don't ask Jesus anything, do you? I ask in his name. I know.

I got that. You ask in his name. Okay, let me repeat it. You ask in his name. You don't ask Jesus. You ask in his name.

In Matthew 6, Luke 11, Jesus said, Our Father who art in heaven, pray this way. Got it. I understand all of those. Okay?

So if you come back with them, I'm going to tell you, I already know about them. Now we go to John 14, 14. In the Greek it says, if you ask me anything in my name. So can you ask Jesus anything? In his name it says, and he'll do it. Can you ask him?

Him. It doesn't, it says, if you shall ask anything in my name, I will do it. I read the Greek to you. Okay? You need to use a good translation, not to King James.

It's antiquated and it will give you problems. I'm reading the Greek. Okay? It doesn't say that we're asking, but I don't see where it says that we're asking Jesus. It doesn't say who you're asking. He says, if you ask me. He says, if you ask me. He says, if you ask me. That's the who.

Me. Jesus says, if you ask me. Why are you denying him? Why are you denying Jesus if you ask me? Why are you submitting the Scriptures to your personal interpretation? Jesus says, I'm reading the Greek to you.

He does. It doesn't say that. That's what he's saying right there. If you ask Juanita, you deny God's word.

It's right there. I'm giving it to you in the Greek. You deny it. You deny Christ. I'm not.

I'm not. Then ask Jesus. Then ask Jesus. If you ask me anything in my name. It doesn't say to ask Jesus. It just says to ask in his name. And that he will do it.

You don't listen. I'm telling you the Greek. It's what is translated from. I'm telling you what the Greek says. I'm not an expert, but I've had Greek in college and in seminary four and a half years. I still look at Greek. I still examine it. I still know enough to be able to tell you what it says.

And I'm looking at it. In fact, if I go to my inner linear, right here it says, If you ask a te sette. That's what it says right there.

It's a second person plural. If you ask. In the Greek it says, And whatsoever ye shall ask in. It does. It does. In my name. It does. In my name.

It does. That will I do. I'm looking at the Greek also, Matt. Okay. It doesn't say to ask Jesus.

Hold on. It says to ask in his name. What's the first word of verse 14? I'm going to come back to you after the break, and I'm going to expose you for the false teacher you are.

I'm going to ask you specifically what the first, second, and third words are of the Greek. Okay? Let's see if you can do that. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages.

So much heresy. So little time. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Here's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back with Winnie. Are you still there? I am. Okay. What's the first word in the Greek of verse 14?

So we can cut here. here, I do see the word meth in there, so it does appear. Okay, what's the first word? If anything, if. Okay, what's the second word? Thai, anything. No, it's not Thai, the first word is aeon in the Greek, the second word is a-te-si-te, it's the second person plural, if you plural. Shall, ask.

No, it's not shall, it's subjunctive, so you could get away with that, that's fine. So, if you ask me, who's the object. The fourth word is what's important. No, no, no, no, no, no, you don't know Greek, you don't understand what you're talking about here, I'm sorry, I couldn't tell you.

You don't know what's going on. Okay, the accusative and the dative are very prominent in Greek. Okay, are you familiar with the accusative and the dative?

I am. Okay, the accusative is a direct object. And we have the dative, which is the indirect object. So we have a conditional if, we have a verb, you ask, the direct object is me, which is the first person of Christ, that's who the subject of the asking is. This is what you learn in Greek.

You have to learn linguistics, you have to learn dative, accusative, genitive, optative, nominative, you have to learn all these things. Well, I'll tell you what, the word does appear there, you don't have to get that specific, if somebody goes to an inter-linear, they'll see that the word me. If anything, you shall ask me in my name, I will do. So I'm saying that the word does appear there in Greek. If you want to say conceit in that, so that's a very, I have no problem, I've never seen that before, but I want to say that you don't have to be a linguistic scholar in order to see that that word does appear there.

But it is important to look at the inter-linear, because there are things you learn from that. So that was very good, I appreciate that, and I'll pray about that. You don't have to pray about it.

You don't have to pray about it. You can just believe what it says. I didn't say don't, I said you don't have to, because it's right there. It's right there. I see it. It says if you ask me.

Going to the inter-linear was very helpful, because I never really saw that before. And there's a lot more you haven't seen. So, does Jesus there say to ask him anything in his name? So you do two things by the authority of Christ in his name, and you're asking him. Is that not correct? Isn't that what it says right there?

That's what it says right there. Good. So can you pray to Jesus and ask him? Yeah.

Yeah, I still have a little bit of a time. Like I said, I'll pray about it. I like praying to the Father in Jesus. I don't think it's a matter of real importance. It's not a matter of salvation.

Let me explain why it's so important. I can tell you're an intelligent person, all right? Would you agree that if you have the wrong Jesus, you have the wrong Father?

Would you agree? If you have the wrong Jesus, you have the wrong Father. I'm not sure what that means. Let me explain. Go ahead. Jesus says in Matthew 11 27, All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. So does the Son reveal the Father?

I love that Scripture, yes, to anyone who wishes. But what does the first part say? No one knows the Son. Tell me what that means, you say. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

You're not listening. Jesus is the one who reveals the Father. The Jesus of the Bible is the true Jesus. The Jesus of the Bible is the true Jesus. Now, the Jesus of Mormonism is the brother of the devil begotten through sexual relations between God and his goddess wife who came from another planet. So that Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. And if they pray through that Jesus, that will not reveal the true Father. Would you agree?

No, we're not. Would you agree that the Mormon Jesus, because it's false, does not reveal the true Father? Would you agree? I think there's only one Jesus, and whether they... Like a Trinitarian, they don't understand who Jesus is. A Trinitarian doesn't understand. So if a Trinitarian preached to Jesus, are they...

Excuse me, you're not listening. If anyone comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, 2 Corinthians 11.4. So there are different Christs, there are different Jesuses out there.

There's false ones. So the Jesus of Mormonism is a false one. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a false one. The Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is Michael the archangel who became a human and became a Michael the archangel again. That's not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus is not the brother of the devil.

Literally. And the Trinitarian Jesus is not the real Jesus either. We're not there yet. So, the point I'm trying to make is if you have the wrong Jesus, you won't have the true Father. Because Jesus reveals the Father. The Jesus of the Bible says, Ask me anything in my name, and you won't even do that.

There's more. The first part of that scripture... May I ask a question? Sure.

Okay. The first part of that, no one knows the Son. What do you think that means? I'm not exactly sure what it means. So, taken just at face value, what would you say that it means?

I'm not exactly sure. It probably has something to do with the parakeritic relationship. The Father and the Son's mutual indwelling in the nature of the Trinitarian essence.

That's what I think is that you're right. That we are really not going to understand who Jesus is, the Son is, until we get to heaven. There's a lot of misconceptions, like the Trinity doctrine and the Jehovah witnesses. No, no, no, no. Stop, stop, stop. Hold on. I'm not going to let you just spew off false doctrines out here on my radio show. The Trinity is a true doctrine. So I'm trying to show you something right here. You can't even get to the truth because you don't have the true Christ. And I'm trying to prove it to you.

The true Jesus is prayed to. There was some place that we could go. We're past that. No, we're not past it. Just because you can't answer doesn't mean we're past it. I thought we were past John 14, 14.

You memorized it. So Jesus says, if you ask me anything in my name, so is he talking to millions of people right there? Potentially?

We're past that. Is it addressing the Christian church? Is the Christian church comprised of millions of people that are to ask Jesus or pray to Christ and he's going to answer them? May I get to my question that I called in for? There's so many questions you can't answer. Go ahead. Well, we have to have a format where we can both have an even exchange.

This is your radio program and you call the shop. And so I have no real opportunity. You're kind of, I don't want to say bullying. I apologize for that word. But we don't have a forum that we can have an even exchange back and forth. Now, you said that you would provide a forum. I sent you my email. I sent you an email and I haven't heard back yet. So I am looking forward to a time where we can meet on neutral ground. But can I get to my question that I called in on?

Please do. Okay. It was, actually we started on it last Friday. And I just want to know the physics of what you think the physics are of the creation. And I point to John 1-1, Genesis 1-3 and Psalm 33-6.

And so we seem to have, and I'm very serious. I'm not trying to challenge you or prove the Trinity. I mean, you got off on the Trinity thing with this question I have.

And I didn't really want to go to the Trinity thing. I just wanted to understand what you thought the physics of creation were based on these three scriptures. And it's not a trick question or anything. It's not a well-formed question because the physics of creation. What do you mean by physics? Well, something actually happened physically. Something from nothing. There was in the nanosecond when time and space began.

When God said, or when light appeared, or there's a connection. No, that's inaccurate. You keep saying things that are inaccurate. Something did not come from nothing.

That's an impossibility. Okay. God created everything. He's not nothing. Something came from his creative work. You don't say something came from nothing.

Well, let me be specific then. There's eternity and then there's time and space in which we live. Okay, so there was a moment in time where in the beginning God said, let there be light. By the word of the Lord were the heavens made and all the host of them by the breath of the mouth. So there was a point when there was nothing except eternity. And then there was a point where time and space began and light the first day, whether it's a day or a thousand years or whatever. I get that.

I don't know. So that's what I'm saying. Something, there was a point when time and space and matter started.

I'll go with that for now, though I don't think it's that accurate. But nevertheless, God created the universe. Okay, and so based on these scriptures, we have in the beginning was the word. In the beginning, God said, and by the word of the Lord were the heavens made and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. So would it be kind of close to accurate to say that God's word was there in the beginning or in the beginning God spoke? If we can understand that by the word of the Lord were the heavens made. I'm trying to make a connection there to God's word. God said.

Yeah, God spoke and then it occurred. Right. Right. Okay. All right. So this word that was there in the beginning, which we know eventually became flesh and growth among us, but we really don't understand what that was, just like no one knows the sun. You know, we really don't understand.

We know that there was a pre-incarnate Jesus. We only have 30 seconds. Okay.

Listen, I want to meet you sometime on some ground. Thank you so much, Matt. Take care. All right. Bye-bye. Good-bye.

Wish you could have kept going, though. Yeah, she's not very good at what she's doing. Sorry, it's the case, and it's really amazing. I've noticed just a huge increase in the attack on the person of Christ. That's just what's going on. But what's interesting is I'm creating a document now. It's only 26 pages on Unitarian thought, their arguments against Christ, and I collect them, and then I answer them. So we'll see what happens. Anyway, hey, we're out of time, folks.

I hope you enjoyed that. Notice I focused on one verse, John 14, 14. Why? Because you have to harmonize all of scripture.

They can't make that fit their theology, so they dismiss it. Hey, we'll be back tomorrow. God bless everybody. Bye-bye.