Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick.

Listen to Matt Slick live. Let's see, it's November 2nd. I was off for a couple of days because I was helping out another ministry, ABN Sat TV, and they broadcast out all over the world on a satellite network system. And we were talking about the necessity of the Christians voting and stuff like that.

And politics and the spiritual state of our world in the United States. It was an interesting discussion. I'll be on again Friday.

So Luke will do the show again Friday, Lord willing. But today and tomorrow I'm here and then next week back to normal. All right. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. You can give me a call and we can talk. And we got one call waiting already, so might as well jump in. Let's get to, let's see, William from North Carolina. Will, welcome.

You are on the air. Thank you, Matt Slick. My question is from Matthew, I mean, from John chapter two, and Jesus turns the water into the wine. My question is this. Why did he choose to, why do you think he chose to use the stone containers, rather than the ones that people brought to the party? Because they were going to be used for a ceremony.

They were there for one of the feasts and have water in them. Plus, there's six of them. And God created the earth in six days. Now, Colossians one, 15, 16, 17 talks about Jesus being the creator. And it also says in John one, verses one through three, through four or five range, it talks about Jesus is the one through whom all things came into existence. So this is his first miracle. Notice it's on a third day, which is interesting, at a wedding, which is further interesting. And then that's when he does his miracles out of six gallons, or six days, excuse me, and represents the six days of creation, his sovereignty and who he was.

Okay. Do you think that that would represent the wine, the Holy Spirit? No, because that would mean he'd be creating the Holy Spirit. No, the Holy Spirit is there and was anointed him in his baptism. But the issue here, a lot of people will ask is the wine really fermented? Is it really wine or just grape juice? No, it was real wine. It wasn't grape juice.

No, I believe totally. It was real wine. I think it was meant to restore the joy to the party, or the wedding. And I know a lot of people have trouble with the wine part.

They get uppity about it. But you know, Proverbs 31, 6, I'm going to read it to you. This is what the Bible says. Give strong drink to him who is perishing and wine to him whose life is bitter. That's what the Bible says to do. So that scripture people like what would never happen Jesus the blonde haired black occasion surfer duty never make real alcohol. No, I and then the groomsman or the master of defeat says it's the best wine he's ever had. So yeah, obviously it was good stuff. So I just wanted to get into that my whole thought was that he didn't want to use the vessels that they had brought with him.

For a couple reasons. One, he didn't want anyone to misunderstand that he actually made the wine out of water. You know, there could have been some residual wine in those containers. Yeah, that's a good point. And also that those were made out of dirt where these other ones were for purification.

So they were already quote unquote pure. Yep, that's right. That's right. Okay. Awesome, Matt. Thank you very much. You're welcome very much. Well, God bless. All right. Okay, hey, three open lines if you want to give me a call 8772072276 Jason from let's see, Arizona, I think. Welcome.

You're on the air. Hi, Matt, I was realizing that since we are not born of God, by a decision of our will, but it's God who causes us to be regenerated. And that in Romans chapter nine, he made his vessels of mercy, prepared beforehand for glory, that I came to the conclusion that ultimately, our eternal destiny must be determined by God.

That's correct. Very good. And that's a hard pill for everyone I know to swallow, but I'm accepting it. Why are you accepting it?

Because it's what the Word of God says. So you know, that's the right attitude. That's what it says. And that's what it says now. And now can you hear me, john?

That is what it says there. And when I first heard about it, I said, Hey, can you hear me? She was up to you know what I messed up my decision.

I broke up my system. And I found out that so anyway, sorry about that, guys. They mentioned, they've still Oh, all right. So john, what do you got with people who say no, it's all up to you. I was wondering if you could just speak into your apologetic method. I'm a big fan of Cornelius fantills, presuppositional apologetic method and I want to hear your thoughts on him and just the way he goes about defending his faith. Well, sure.

Before I tell you, I'll just brag and say that. Have you ever heard of john frame? Have you heard him?

I have. Yes, sir. Yeah, well, he was my professor, and in seminary.

And so I got to sit under john from which was the handpicked successor from Cornelius fantill. How about that? That's a bit of a shameless brag. But so that's awesome. Yeah, I think so.

I really was blessed. Let's see. So what I do, I'm definitely a presuppositional list. Okay. And I use a lot of logic, and I use evidence as well. But I believe that evidence and logic are all under the purview of God's sovereignty presuppositional ism is the best way to go. Because you have to presuppose certain values in certain contexts, in order to have rationality and or evidential examination. So, coincidentally, I started working on the text for a video series I want to do on how to do apologetics, and every has different ways, you know, because our brains are different. But I tell people basic stuff.

You know, I'm going to, I am going to change the order. I'm going to go presuppositionally, but you must presuppose the truth of the Christian Trinitarian worldview. And you must just do that, because Trinitarianism is unique. So people need to presuppose that and they need to understand a Christian theology. They have to understand what Christianity is.

Otherwise, they're going to be making mistakes in this defense. And so, I tell people, I say, look, logically speaking, we should not believe anything that's incoherent, right? So for example, we should reject such statements as there are no absolute truths. Well, that statement and absolute truth refutes itself.

So we should reject things that are self refuting and incoherent, which is basic stuff like that. And then the three things I tell people all the time is define your terms. And then number two is use terms and statements. And then number three, use scripture and logic to validate or invalidate the statements. And so that's the thing I tell people a lot. And if you do those two things, presuppose the Christian truth and you define terms, et cetera, about 80% of the problems that you'll face evaporate. And for those that are retained, I recommend that people ask questions to find out what a person's particular worldview, parameters are.

Because anything that's not Christian is going to have incoherent within it. And so it's just a matter of discovering where they're at and then learning how to take the pride bar of the scriptural truth and logic into their, the cracks of their theology or worldview and the pride apart. And I tell people, you don't need to always refute everything.

You can hang them with the rope of their own position. So sometimes I'll be talking to somebody and I'll say, they'll give me something, let's give me something. They'll say, look, let's work with that.

Let's take your position and let's see what it leads to. And I'll do that a lot. So I got a lot more, I could say, but stuff like that. Does that help? That's great.

Yeah, that helps out a lot. One thing I did want to clarify when it comes to just my approach to this apologetic method in particular, when I look at Vantil, I see and I want to make sure my categories are correct when it comes to the preconditions of intelligibility. Currently, I work off of logic, morality, nature and arithmetic. Would you would you categorize those differently?

Or would you would you include any any others in there? What do you mean by logic? In what context? Logic, morality, what was it? Yeah, nature and arithmetic being the natural preconditions that necessitate a creator God, essentially. Well, logic is a, wait, those are the preconditions? No, God's the preconditions of those things. Exactly. That's what I mean is those elements inform their being a creator God, because we can't have an understanding of logic, morality, arithmetic or nature without God necessitating those things.

Right. He's the, if you understand the Christian worldview, and I assume you do, that before God created anything, nothing existed except himself. So nothing is what rocks think of, and there's just nothing out there. God is the was the only extant anything who eternally existed in a Trinitarian, a paracritic relationship of the three persons. And then logic is not something he created. That's a lot of people don't realize that because nature is what's created. But logic is not because logic is an emanation of the pure mind of God and morality is not a creation of God either. It's a revelation of his character.

Mathematics emanates out of the issue of logic that God has integrated into the physical world. And so those are preconditioned by his essence and his ubiquitous essence. And I'm not sure if you're going to sneeze. Oh, I'm going to sneeze. Hold on. Wow. Oh, man, that came out of nowhere. Sorry about that. I used my coffee. God bless you.

Thanks. And now I lost my train of thought. Morality, why math works, because it's an issue of logic, ubiquity. Oh, yes. Are you familiar with the issue of the one in the many, particulars and universals? Yes, somewhat, but if you don't mind just clarifying, make sure I'm on the same page with you on this.

Yeah, the one in the many. What's the ultimate nature of the universe? Is it one thing or is it many things?

Is it one substance or is it particular substances? If it's one thing, then how do we have distinctions if everything is ultimately of one thing? If there are no distinctions that can be justified because of one idea that's called monism, then you can't have truth values, because truth values works instead of distinctions in context.

All right. So if everything is many, that there's many particulars, well, then you have another problem of coherence, because you don't have an overarching unification of the principles of those particular manifestations of things. So a particular tree over here, a particular tree over there. If each particular manifestation of something is its own ultimate, then how do you have unity between the objects? Are you imposing a unity?

Are you coming into...? So there's problems there, and this is a problem that's been existing in philosophy for 2,500 years. Well, with the Trinitarian nature, one and many is equally ultimate, because God is one and three. He is one and many.

So we presuppose the ultimacy of God's nature in the one and the many, and the problem of the one and the many in philosophy disappears. Okay? Yes. So that's a... Yes, that's great. Yeah, there's stuff like that, and I've got a lot of information on that. And so, yeah, these are things.

So anyway, logic is the necessary preconditions, because logic deals with what's called universals, and you're familiar with those? Are you? I am. Yes, sir.

Okay. As our morality... And I like to trap atheists. I'll say, are statements true or false?

Because that's a law of excluded middle. And they'll say, well, yeah, yeah. And then I offer a moral, universal moral absolute statement, and oh, it traps them up. We've got a break, so hold on. I'll tell you what that is after the break, and then we'll get to so-and-so from North Carolina women pastors.

My favorite topic is women pastors. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Yes, sir. Still here. All right. Now, I was going to say something profound, but I completely forgot what we were talking about. Maybe... You were talking about the universals of logic. Yeah. I forgot. Oh, I forgot the universals of logic, what universals are.

I don't know. I forgot my train of thought, so let me try this. I have a paragraph I wrote that maybe I'll read to you because I should have read this to you.

I forgot I had it, but I was looking through some of my notes. I'm fully entrenched in presuppositionalism, though I use evidence within the broader context of the causal chain of God's initiation of all events. Therefore, God is a necessary precondition for evidence. I also use classical apologetic, which is using reason, as it relates to the transcendent necessity of universals that are reflections of God's nature.

These universals include the laws of logic. So in all of it, I presuppose the truth of the Trinitarian God, who is the foundation of all rationality and morality in our existence. Okay. That helps.

That's very helpful. Thank you. Thank you for your ministry. Amen.

Praise God. You know, and I don't know if you're interested, but you know, on Wednesday night, tonight, and let's see, one, two, two and a half hours at 9 p.m. Eastern time, I'll be on a clubhouse just answering questions, and sometimes atheists come in and we talk about this kind of stuff. Sometimes they don't.

You know, it just depends. Okay? Then join in. Are you there? Yes, sir. I'm there.

Yeah, that sounds great. Is that on your live channel? It's on Clubhouse. Now, it's on Clubhouse. It's an app on the phone.

You can just download it, get your name going, whatever. And then you look for my name, Matt Slick, at the top of the hour, whatever it is, at 9 p.m. Eastern time, and you'll find the room. And it's there.

It should be there. And that's it. And that's what I do on Wednesdays. And then Thursdays I teach Bible study out of my house.

We broadcast that live, too. Okay? That sounds great.

I'm looking forward to tuning into it. Thank you so much, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. All right, man. God bless, buddy. Okay. God bless. Okay. Hey, let's get to J.D. from North Carolina.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hello? J.D.

I did hit the right button. Women Pastors and Elders, which I love to talk about. I wish people would repent from the Women Pastors and Elders. I do. They should.

Hi, everyone. I heard that Joyce Meyer is calling in to rebuke Matt. Oh, really?

Joe Friday? That would be great if she did. I'd love that if she would. That'd be awesome.

I'd love to be rebuked by Joyce Meyer. That'd be fun. Yeah.

In my dreams. Okay. Let's see.

So let me try this. And J.D., are you there? I'm not hearing you.

I'll put you on hold. And I think it's J.D. coming in.

Yeah, that's J.D. right there. Okay. He's coming.

We've got a bad connection here. Let me do this. All right. J.D., are you there, buddy? Yes, sir. I'm here. Okay. So what do you got?

Okay. I'm calling in about Women Pastors. And do they have authority? And I would like for some scriptures. If you have any scriptures, you can tell me.

You can give me where I can read it for myself. Sure. What I'll do is lay down a bit of theology here a little bit. Not much.

Just enough. So Adam and Eve were created. Adam was created first.

They're in the garden. She is the one who partook of the sin by eating the fruit first. But she gave the fruit to Adam. But sin entered the world through Adam. Romans 5-12.

You're breathing into the phone. And this is because he was what's called the federal head. He's the one in authority. So when they sinned and they hid themselves, the pre-incarnate Christ came to the man and said, where are you? He didn't say Adam and Eve.

He dressed a man. This is the precondition here for order. Now when we go to 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13, Paul the apostle says this, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but remain quiet. For Adam was first created and then Eve. So a woman is not to be in a place of authority in a man. Now the context here is in the church because in the next chapter, 1 Timothy 3.15, Paul says that he is giving instructions on how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God. He's specifically giving instructions on how we're to behave in the church.

That's what he's doing. That's in 1 Timothy 3.15. Well, in 1 Timothy 3 earlier, he says an overseer, now that's the word in Greek, episkopos, which we get the word bishop, an overseer then must be above reproach the husband of one wife. Now in Greek it's andra mias gunikas. Andra mias gunikas. That's what it is in the Greek.

I'll get to it later. And he must be, the overseer must be the husband of one wife. A woman can't do that. He must manage his own household well, etc. Now, when you go to Titus, it says in verse 5, Titus 1.5, Paul says, For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. If any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife. And that is aner mias gunikas.

The first one is andra, that's a derivation. And so it's aner mias gunikas, a husband of one wife. And he says for the overseer, the episkopos must be above reproach. So he's equating the elder with the overseer. And finally, when you go to 1 Timothy 5.17, it says, The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So the preacher is by default an elder. So elders are to be men because they have to be husbands of one wife. Women can't do that. Paul says he did not allow women to exercise that authority in that church.

So therefore, all churches that have women pastors and elders are in rebellion against the word of God. Okay. Okay. Hey, thank you for that. I appreciate that. Okay. So what do you think of that?

What do I think about it? Well, that's the reason I was asking you. I was told years ago that women were not supposed to preach. And I'm in the process, well, I'm in a church now that where we have women preachers, but we do have a pastor that's over them. Yeah, and that's a sin.

Okay. It does not say in the scriptures, do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority unless she's under the headship of a man. Then it's okay to do that. So what they're doing now is they're in rebellion against the word of God. And I hope that that church is listening to my words right now. People in that church, I hope the elders, all the pastors are listening because I'm going to tell you if you're a woman pastor, woman elder, you need to repent of your sin against God's word, against God. And you need to get out of there. You need to get men raised up in the church as quickly as possible.

I'll come up, I'll come out there and help you do it. And you need to do what's right. Okay.

In other words, we've got a head pastor. Hold on, we've got a break. Okay. Can you hold on?

Because I want to get to that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. We got a break.

So it's a hard break. Got to take it and then we'll get back to it. Hey folks, 4 Open Lines.

If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with JD. Are you still there, buddy?

Still here. All right. Okay. So you were saying something about they're under the authority of somebody else. Right.

In other words, the pastor is the head, but you have women preachers that preach within the pulpit. Yeah. That's rebellion.

That's what now? That's rebellion. That's rebellion? Rebellion against the word of God. Absolutely. That's rebellion against the word of God.

Absolutely. I'm going to read this to you, okay? This is 1 Timothy 3.15. This is the book of Timothy where Paul wrote to Timothy. This is the book of Timothy. And he says this in chapter 3, verse 15. But in case I'm delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar in support of truth. So he's writing to Timothy, the book 1 Timothy, to instruct him on how things are to be done in the household of God.

Right? Would you agree? Okay.

So now we go to 1 Timothy 2.12 in the same book. I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. I would remain quiet. The word quiet there in Greek is hesukia. There's a word sagao. Hesukia just means you can be more quiet. But sagao means you can't be more quiet because you're not saying a stinking thing. It's absolute silence. Hesukia is not absolute silence.

It's just you're keeping it quiet, keeping it down. Well, 1 Timothy 2.12. 1 Timothy 2.12. And I'll give you a resource you can go to where this is there. Okay? Where all the documentation is there. You don't have to write it down.

I can tell you where to go on my website where I've written on this extensively. So he says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet, for Adam was first created and then Eve. So if a woman gets up in the pulpit and she's teaching, she's teaching and exercising authority over people in the church, over men in the church. And if you say, well, she's under somebody else's authority.

Well, then if that's the case, is she still exercising authority and teaching? Yes. Well, then why are you doing it?

It's simple. So I'm going to say this, like I said this so many times, but doing radio for 18 years. Okay. Five days a week for 18 years. I take a couple of months off here.

One switch between networks and stuff like that, but 18 years. Okay. So I'll do it again. I'm offering a challenge of a public debate. I'll come out to your church and we'll debate the topic.

Does the Bible support women pastors and elders? That's the topic. And I'll come out to your church and we'll have a public debate in your church. Okay. Public debate. Okay.

Moderated the whole bit. This is you. This is others. I'm saying this to anybody listening. I've been doing this for 18 years. Not a single person has taken me up on it. Not a single one.

Why? Because they know, this is what I believe anyway. They know I will tip over their idol. Their women pastors, women elders idol. The reason I call it an idol, oh yeah, I'm speaking with strength and with truth. Because it is something that they are doing and giving honor to instead of the word of God.

That's with their little idol. And I'll go tip it over and I'll tell them in front of everybody, you are in rebellion against God's word. You're in sin.

And you need to stop this. And I'll debate them. I'll flat out tell them, well you're judgmental. You can say whatever you want. But this is what the word of God says.

Let's see what God's word says. Let me tell you, I've done a lot of research on this. 80%, this is my research.

I did this about five years ago or so. 80% of the denominations where they have women pastors and elders within two generations started affirming homosexuality. LGBTQ, the alphabet mob.

80%. And there's a reason. Because men are the ones called to be the authority in the church. Not women. It doesn't mean women are inferior.

It means that they have a different position. So masculinity is under attack. And when, I tell people this, that men are better than women at most everything. We're better construction workers. Better surgeons. Better murderers. Better extortionists. Better hitmen.

We excel. And if women step up in the church and take the place of what men are supposed to be doing, you weaken the men and you give them an excuse to be the best at being lazy and ineffective. And this is something that the men need to own up.

They need to man up. And if I were at a church, and I might do it politely, and there are a bunch of men and women there, they ask me, let's say something hypothetically. Come out, Matt, and teach us. Just come out. I go, yep.

I'd say, fine. Do you have women elders? I'd call them out on the carpet right there. You need to stop. You need to step down right this minute.

You need to do it right now. Well, then nothing will get done in the church. Then nothing gets done in the church. Let the men step up and step in and get it done. And men need to rise up. And the women need to learn how to not browbeat the men too. You didn't do this right.

You didn't do that right. Men are tired of it. Men are so tired of being stepped on that they're giving up. They are. And there's a lot to this.

I love to teach on this. Women need to encourage their men. They need to uplift them.

Not because they're weak, but it's hard being a man. In fact, this is a bit of a note. I've seen two instances. More than that.

Three or two videos. One for a woman who became a man and said, forget it. It's too hard being a man.

Responsibility and everything was way too hard. And I'm not justifying saying it was okay for that trans thing. I don't believe in that. But I've also seen videos of women who take the place of men in work and providing the hope and they say it's incredibly hard. And okay, that's what we're made to do. Men are made to be strong and to stand firm. Not that women can't be strong. They stand firm too.

There are a lot of great women out there. Absolutely. But in the church, men are called to be in that position. If they don't do it, the church is going to be weakened.

It's just going to be weakened. And women want to get in and they want to be in authority. Just like Eve, they inherited the Edenic lie. See, we as men inherited the curse.

We've got to work now. The thing that we were given to do to be in dominion over man, over nature, okay, is now to be done with sweat and toil. And the woman's position was to help him do that, to be a helpmate for that purpose, which most of men today don't want to do with. And that's what they're supposed to do and their position in part is to raise children and be the helpmate. That's the normal and normative instruction and division that God has given. Now there's variations. We know that, you know, husband leaves, husband dies, women are going to step up.

I get that and we can talk about those. But this is what's supposed to be normative and it's supposed to be normative in the church as well. And so when women step up and do this, they are usurping the position that does not belong to them and they're behaving like Eve, who was under the authority of Adam and refused to go under his headship and instead decided morality for herself. Because you understand, God gave the word to Adam, don't eat of this tree. You do, you'll die, Genesis 2.17. And in Genesis 3, when Satan came to Eve and was talking to her and trying to get her, because notice he did it without Adam around. It wasn't like Adam was right there listening.

People want to say that, but it's just not the case, okay. The serpent was crafty. He said, did God say you shall not eat from any tree of the garden? Actually, he actually said it properly. Satan actually repeated it properly.

Don't eat from any tree. The woman said from the fruit of the trees, the garden we may eat, from the fruit of the tree, which is the knowledge of the garden, God has said you shall not eat or touch it. And so she added the words or touch it. So she modified the word or touch it or women can't be pastors or elders unless they're under the authority of a man.

They just changed the word of God a little bit and once that's there, then contradiction of the word of God is enabled. And when that happens, things get bad. So what the women are inheriting to some degree is that rebellion and the desire to be over their husbands. This is why it says, the Lord said to the serpent, because you have done this, curse to you more cattle. And then he said to the woman, between you and the woman, put enity. And the woman, he said, multiply childbirth. And he goes on to listen to this.

In pain you'll bring forth children, yet your desire will be for your husband. What does that mean? A lot of commentators think it means that she's going to be the one who wants to be in control. And it makes sense because she was the one in the garden who listened and didn't go and consider morality and truth to Adam, the head of mankind at this point.

And she took it upon herself and altered the word of God a little bit. And this is what happened. So the consequence is, and I agree with this one, your desire should be for your husband and he will rule over you. That's the curse.

Now, instead of an equity, it's a ruling. And this is part of the problem. But this is what God instituted because the commentators want to say your desire should be for your husband.

You're going to want to be in rulership, but he's going to rule over you. And this is part of the fall. So this is what's happening in the church today.

And women are listening to the Edenic echo from the desire of Eden's heart. Hold on buddy. We've got another break. Okay. Sorry, man.

I know I talked, but that's a little theology. Hold on. We'll be right back.

Women are not to be pastors and elders folks. Hey, we'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back to the show. Let's see. Back to JD. Okay. JD, one more thing.

We've got the colors waiting, but, uh, okay. You get, I get enough information and you gave me some scriptures to follow up on. And, uh, I appreciate this and I thank you for this. I'll tell you what I go to my website, karm.org, C A R M dot O R G. Okay. Karm.org and the left hand side is the navigation menu. Just scroll down in the navigation menu and you'll find women in ministry.

Click on that. You'll see a bunch of articles I've written on this topic and they are just full of scriptures, scriptures, scriptures, scriptures, and even the objections people raise like Deborah or Phoebe out of Romans 7, 16, 1. And I go through and I deal with these and show context what's going on. And I'm gonna just say it again. Women pastors and elders are not biblical. And if you're a woman pastor and elder, you need to step down and you need to just have people in the church, men set up and do it. If there aren't any good qualified men, then, uh, I'll help you find them or help you train them.

Uh, but they've got to be there. And this was what needs to happen. And men out in the world, you need to stop serving yourself. You need to stop using women to get what you want. You need to start being like men, be strong.

And when you mess up, you fess up and you move on. The wives need to support their men in this attempt and the men need to learn the word. They should meet with other men and discuss what it means to follow Christ Jesus. Does it matter what color you are?

Does it matter how old you are? Does it matter what status of life you are? This is your obligation as a Christian man to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and be an example to your family, your friends, and in your church and to start living this way. And it will not go well for you if you start doing this because the people of the world don't want truth. But you need to honor God before you honor people.

That's important. And if you're afraid to do that, you're afraid to stand up for truth because you're afraid that someone might look down at you or a woman might say something or a male friend might say something or society might say something, then you need to go into your prayer closet and ask for the strength of God. You need to open the word of God.

You need to pray and ask God to strengthen you as a man. And in your failures, which will occur, you rejoice in God. You rejoice because we fail. We make mistakes when we lead down paths we've never been down before. It's easy to step back from the leader and say you made a mistake going left or right. You made a mistake here or there. But it's not so easy being in that position. So you have to learn how to be strong and have your eyes on Christ, not on the people, not on your church, not on society, but on the word of God, what he has revealed.

And that's what the truth is. And one more time, I'll come out to your church and I'll debate the issue with you. I have a debate on does the Bible support women pastors and elders. And if that's not something you want to have done, but you want me to come out and teach on the issue of male-female relationships in the church and authority and all that kind of stuff, I'll be glad to do it. I've been teaching on this for a long time.

Give me that online again. karm.org, karm.org, karm.org, the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, the site's 27 years old. And on the 10th side of the menu, just look for women in ministry. And you'll see the articles, can women be pastors and elders, you'll see it fully documented. Okay, thanks a lot, I appreciate that. Alright brother, God bless man.

God bless you too. Alright, now let's get over to Nadia from North Carolina. Nadia welcome, you're on the air. Nadia. Nadia. Maybe Nadia's Nadia there. Hello, Nadia.

Because she would have thought of women pastors and elders too. Let's see, let's get over to, let's try this. Let's try this. Oliver from Maine. Oliver welcome, you're on the air. Hi, how you doing? Doing alright, hang in there man, what do you got?

Hey, so I have a question regarding First Corinthians 5, 11 through 13. Okay. And I can see it right now or I can... I'm looking at it. Yeah, don't associate with bad people basically. Yep. Yeah.

Yep. So I have some family members, I have specifically like my, some in-laws I guess I should say, who bear the name of, you know, a Christian. But from what I know are living in, you know, sexual sin. Okay.

So my struggle is, should I associate with these people? Like tonight I'm technically supposed to go over there with my wife and, you know, her mom and all that there. To do what? Just to spend the night there. To what? You broke up, you broke up.

To do what? I'm sorry. I can't hear you. Speak your phone there, sorry. That's alright.

To, we were pretty much just going to be spending the night there and just hanging out with them all. Yeah. But I was just kind of convicted by this passage. Okay. So let me ask you a question here. Yeah.

Yeah. If someone was going through the neighborhood and preaching against Jesus, let's just say hypothetically, would you welcome into the house and say, hey, let me help you on your way, let me give you food and shelter and clothing so you can do some more of that? Of course you would do that. What was the question one more time? If someone was coming into the neighborhood preaching against Jesus, like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, you would not aid and abet them in their false teachings.

Right? You wouldn't do that. No. That's clear. Now what if you and your wife are there at your house and this couple who are not married wants to come over and spend the night? What would you say? I'd say absolutely not.

Absolutely not. That's right. Now that's because it's your house.

Now it's because of the gray area here. Now it's their house. Now do you go over and spend the night under the roof in their relationship? Now I can't tell you what to do, but I would not be able to do that.

That's just me. And don't use me as a standard because nothing in the Bible says they can't do that. But for me, I'm not going to participate or sit under your roof as you rebel against God in that sense. I've been in that exact situation with them for their house.

Also couldn't do that. My struggle is with her because it's going to be at my in-law, this person who's in her parents' house, which is also my wife's parents' house. Okay. Which is... And I'm wondering if you'd just even be there. So you mean everybody's going to be going... So the other couple is going to be there sleeping together and they say they're Christians and you're going to join them under... Is that what it is? Everybody's going to be living under one roof? Just, yeah, staying now at her parents' house. Her parents are Christians and they don't allow them to stay in the same room. Or they might be in the same room but not in the same sleeping arrangement. Yeah.

I see that my... I have a daughter who, let's just say, not very good. And she asked once, can she come over and sleep in the same bed with her boyfriend? I said, nope.

Nope. I'm not going to allow her in the house. Well, what if we're in different rooms?

Well, that's doable. I can't control when they get up in the middle of the night, et cetera. But at least they understand what the position is. We're very gentle about it. We just can't allow that.

And they go to a hotel together. That's their business. They're welcome to come over at that point and they can see, hopefully they can see a Christian relationship with my wife and I as we can be witnesses and pray for them. So what we have to do sometimes is just decide where the line's going to be drawn. And if it causes offense with your wife's parents, so what? That's my attitude. Not that we want to be laissez-faire about that. We don't care, but we have to serve Christ first. And if they say, well, I'm offended that you say, well, I'm sorry, but I've got to honor my Lord and I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to, you know, whatever it is, the condition that you hold to. Okay? So you're not thinking I'm being, I just want to make sure I'm not being too extreme.

When I say extreme, I mean legalism against, I'd say it's, I just want to make sure I guess I'm not being too extreme in thinking that I shouldn't be over there. Let me ask you. So it's her, your wife's parents' house. And in that house is another couple that is living there or is visiting there? Is it they're living or visiting?

They're visiting and they're going to be sharing the same room in that house, right? Maybe. Sometimes, yes.

Yeah. If they were, I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if I could.

That's a good question. I might probably say, no, I'm not going to be here while that's going on. And just tell people and say, no, my, that would just be me. And if you decide contrary, I can't point the finger at you because, you know, it's a tough one.

But that's me. I just want to do that. I don't want to even have the appearance of approving of the parents who are permitting rebellion against God and sinful stuff. Now, where do you draw the line? They could have bad stuff on their TV.

They could have a porn channel. I'm not sending you a dump, but you go to the house for that. It gets difficult to know when to draw the line, but you and your wife have to talk about it, decide and then act on it to the best of your ability. All right. Well, I appreciate your wisdom, brother. Thank you. All right.

I don't have answers, but we need to start standing up for reasonable morality within our control without being too legalistic. That's a tough one. Right.

So pray for wisdom. Okay? Thank you. Okay. All right. Okay, buddy. Well, God bless, man. Okay.

God bless you too. All right. All right, let's try Nadia again. Nadia, are you there? Hi, I'm here. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Welcome. You're on the air. Hi. I'm a first time caller, actually. I'm relocated to North Carolina. I've been enjoying a lot of the biblical programming.

We don't get as much in the Midwest where I came from. But anyhow, I wanted to just maybe have you ponder something. And I'm not a biblical scholar. That's all right.

By no means of the word. But I do think that there's been a calling on my life to go in that direction at some point and pursue it in terms of academically. Pursue what? But anyhow. Pursue what?

I'm sorry? And pursue what? To pursue academics, you know, theology and whatnot. Well, good. Good. Good for you. To postpone further understanding. But anyhow. Good for you. You used Paul's words in defending the argument that women shouldn't be preachers or leaders in the church.

Pastors, elders. Yes. We've got one minute in the show. We've got one minute left.

Just let you know. But go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. Paul is very specific.

Right? So he says, I do not allow. And there's other places when he writes that. Let me comment.

Let me comment. Because we're so short on time. He does say that. Where he clearly says, this is my opinion, not necessarily the words of Jesus to you.

We're almost out of time, so let me respond to that because we're almost out of time. Paul says he's giving instruction on how we're to behave in the household of God. He's an apostle called by Jesus Christ. He has that apostolic authority. So he's completely and totally saying that. So that's what he says.

And it is an authoritative thing from the apostle. Okay? So we're not to be passive. Yeah. Okay. So, again, he says, I do not allow.

And when he does that in other places, he clarifies that he's his opinion. Did you hear what I said? Did you hear what I said? And then, let's just... Are you listening? Yes.

And so he doesn't say God, doesn't allow, doesn't say Jesus, doesn't allow. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

He's giving instructions. Also, I just like to... Okay, hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Okay. She just won't stop. And so I want her... We had to go. I want her to call back tomorrow. I hope she's listening. I hope she calls back. But I hope that she can actually have an interaction instead of trying to teach. Because that would be interesting. Let's see if she can handle the word of God.

And notice what she's doing. It's just Paul's opinion. Is her opinion equal to Paul's? Of course not. We'll be right back tomorrow. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.