Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Listen to Matt Slick live. If you're a newbie, you're not sure about this, what it is, you're on the radio just kind of dialing. Matt Slick is my real name. I'm a Christian apologist.

I defend the Christian faith. I've been doing it for, well, since 1980, but I'm on radio. I was just talking to somebody recently. I've been on radio 18 years, five days a week, and before that, I did two years, one day a week.

So, I guess you could say 20 years of radio, how about that? All right. Hey, we have four open lines.

If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, and Rudolph was calling, and I forgot to check something that he asked. Oh, man. Oh, I got so busy. I was on the web last night discussing for like three hours, teaching theology and answering questions.

So, I'll have to embarrass myself here publicly. Also, hey, a little bit of a heads up. Because of the, we're moving towards rumble, let's put it this way. And so, what's going to happen is we're going to try something where you can get the first 10 minutes of the show on YouTube, and then after that, it stops, and you got to go to YouTube. I mean, you got to go to, got to go to rumble. And if you are interested in going to rumble, you want to check it out, it's easy. You just, I think it's just, what is it? It's rumble.com forward slash users, what is that?

Let's see. Users. I don't have it. No, we don't have that. Forward.

I'm messing up. Forward slash users, forward slash karm org, I think is what it is. I think, yeah, user, user, karm org. Okay.

Whew. Okay. So, it's rumble.com forward slash user, forward slash karm org, C-A-R-M-O-R-G, no dot in there. And you can watch us.

We have, we're slowly greening members and there's a lot of advantages to rumble. I can say things about COVID if I want and masks if I want and they won't penalize me, especially when I go to the CDC website like I did last week and showed you what the CDC website is saying. And I did that and I got dinged apparently on one of the YouTube channels, but we have a few, so here we are again. And there you go.

All right. So, if you're interested, we have a chat system, whatever, it's not a big deal, but people come into, you can go to YouTube and chat, but you can also go to rumble and you can just meet the people that are in there and it's really nice. The people are great. I've met a lot of people. In fact, I was just at this weekend, I saw Laura and had a good time with her and her pastor Rudy and Ed Romine, who I constantly tease and he likes it and Micah, that was Micah.

I think it was Micah. And we had a good time, good fellowship. And these are people that we've met online here and I've not met Joanne personally, but Joanne runs our online prayer ministry. And then there's Ernie. I've never met Ernie in person either, but we've talked, we've known each other for a couple, three, four years, whatever it is.

And he helps out a great deal on this ministry. And then we have Charlie and I've known Charlie for 40 years. We've met many times.

We're just in Salt Lake City together. And Charlie helps out too. We've got a lot of people who help out.

We really do. And I certainly appreciate the blessing that they all are regarding Karm. And I just got to mention my wife, a poor woman, she's married to me, so that's okay. And she helps out. She does the stuff for Karm that I hate doing, like the paperwork stuff.

You know, it's like this. I remember I took accounting once just to see if I liked it within, I think it was three and a half seconds. I realized I hated it. I can't understand how anybody could do the accounting job.

I'm not knocking it in my brain just doesn't work that way. I don't understand how people can love that, but they takes all kinds. So she does that kind of stuff and she's better at than I am, but I am better definitely at being obnoxious because she did say to me one time, you know, after I asked her, I said, what's my spiritual gift? And she said, well, being obnoxious. And I said, okay, I'm going to work on perfecting that spiritual gift. And then there was this kind of a sigh, slumping of the shoulders and rubbing of her forehead while she's shaking her head. Poor woman.

You know, I don't know what her problem is, but you know, I answered truthfully and accurately and then she has these headaches all the time. So anyway, if you want to give me a call for open lines, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. And if you want to email me a comment or question, you could do that by going to the web and just typing in the email address of info at karm.org info at karm.org. You got some interesting stuff here and, uh, I need to get through some of those things. Oh man. Okay. So much going on. Let's get on with Rudolph from North Carolina. Rudolph.

Welcome. You were on the air. Yes, sir. I heard you say you didn't answer it. So I forgot where, sorry, um, you want me to call back tomorrow?

Yeah, I'll call back tomorrow. Um, actually what happened was I had a certain, because I put the question in my list of questions were to save it and it was a server error, so I couldn't save it. It was just a weird thing. I had to reboot my computer. By then I was already doing something else.

And then I spent three hours answering questions online. And so that's why. Okay. Okay. Do you remember what the question was? Yeah.

Why did Balaam get in trouble with God for doing what God asks? Right. Exactly. Okay.

Which if you could send me, oh, I'm sorry, no, you're not doing that right now. I do have one quick trick question that you can answer. All right.

Okay. Are there, are there 10 commandments or 11 commandments? Are there 10 or 11?

Trick question. There were 10 given to, um, to Moses and the 10 commandments. So, okay, go for it. There were 11 commandments. Okay. What's the 11th? Jesus said, I give you a new commandment.

Oh, you want one another. That's true. That is true.

11 commandments. Well, there you go. That's right. I was like, wow. Okay. Cause I said 10.

And then when he said no 11, I was like, what? Right. And yeah, I get it.

You don't think about that. Yeah. And he said that and John, uh huh. You got me. All right.

I figured they would kill somebody cause they got me. Yeah. And that's John 13, 34, right? John 13, 34 new commandment.

I give you that you love one another, even as I have loved you, uh, that you also love one another. However, just to be a little bit more technical, the 10 commandments are a covenant treaty pattern from the third millennium BC that follow the suzerain vassal pattern. And this doesn't. So the 11th one, so to speak, uh, doesn't fit inside of that, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, pattern. Yeah. I mean, I get it.

You know, there's, there's, you know, that's fine, but yeah, yeah. Okay. All right.

Wow. Call you back tomorrow. All right.

Well, we'll see. I got to do a thing tonight and I got to prep a Bible study for tomorrow night. So, uh, if you can send me a verse exactly where it is, but maybe I can research it and find out too. I'll see what I can do.

Maybe somebody would help me out and say, Hey, these are the verses he's talking about. Then I can go take a quick look. All right. Sounds good.

Thank you. All right. Okay.

Please do. All right, Rudolph. Well, sorry about that. Goodbye. Okay.

Now I think what we did, we'd already turned the, uh, the feed off for, yes, we did for, um, YouTube. So now we're just going straight to rumble and, uh, we're going to be doing some strategizing about some other things, uh, in all of this as well. And by the way, I want to need some video help. Uh, maybe somebody who really knows SLR cameras or DSLRs and, uh, some other issues and maybe some, uh, film editing and, uh, or digital editing, things like that. I'm going to be needed some help with some of this stuff.

And so maybe if some of you want to email me at info at karm.org, uh, I'll see if I can, you know, take a look at who might offer something. All right. Uh, let's see. Uh, wow. Look at this.

I got some interesting stuff. How could you logically call out a pastor in clubhouse who's praying, but addresses Satan by name twice during the prayer? Uh, that's, uh, from Joanne. What I would do is just simply, uh, just say, don't, don't pray to Satan by your dressing and praying to God. Then you address Satan. You're praying to Satan. Don't do that. And just, uh, uh, just pray to the Lord Jesus and ask Jesus to rebuke the enemy and, uh, don't pray to the devil. A lot of people have done that over the years.

I've heard them. They'll be in prayer to God and then they'll turn to prayers and they'll start praying to the devil. And they'll talk.

They'll start talking to him. Like, don't do that. Don't do that.

It's a prayer to the evil one. And don't do that. Don't um, don't do that.

Just don't. But if you're going to find a pastor who's on there and does this, uh, point it out. Now I'm going to tell you something about people in clergy.

Don't think that they are above correction. Don't think that we in the clergy are above correction. You have the obligation to point out certain things. And please do. Don't think that you can't. All right. You can. So you've got to do that.

All right. Uh, let's see. Here's an interesting email. I think I'm going to do that.

Nobody waiting right now on the phone, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. You're most likely aware of the history below. I'm just reading this. I didn't even look at it yet, but I came across it and found it revealing in this attached document in an article from world net daily 1999 homosexuality is a religious, not a political issue. Quote, homosexuality is firmly rooted in the occultic worship of the goddess Semiramis, which originated, originated in ancient Babylon and which later resurfaced in pagan rights throughout the world. Uh, though the myth is that pagans were simply peace living, living people's that they were infected people who worship, uh, sex and death. Their rituals include the sacrifice of children, self-mutilation and other things I'm not going to read.

So, uh, yeah, I'm going to have to look into that because there may or may not be a level of accuracy in that. Now we know, I'll explain why homosexuality is sinful right now. So, uh, that's what's going on with the video here is, uh, keep switching. But um, as I'm looking at my screen, but homosexuality is an attack on the character of God and on, uh, the dominion mandate and on the Messiah and explain how God in his character has a differentiation within the Trinitarian communion, fathers and Holy Spirit. And the reflection of that Trinitarian communion is manifested in male and female in the created order. And the necessity of male and female is to carry out the dominion mandate because the dominion mandate is a reflection of God's creation and God's creative ability.

The dominion mandate deals with the ability of people to produce, to build, to govern, to cultivate, and this is taking creation and modifying it and affecting it for the betterment of mankind. And homosexuality denies the ability of this to happen because it denies descendants because through it you can't have offspring who can then populate the earth. And furthermore, when we get back from the break, I'll tell you another reason why homosexuality is sinful and what the theological reason is for that as well. We'll be right back after these messages. We have four open lines 877-207-2276 and we'll be right back. Everybody welcome back to the show. All right, now we have four open lines, why don't you give me a call 877-207-2276.

And also you can give me an email at info at karm.org if you are curious about something and you don't want to get on the air, you can ask me a question and or you can make a comment. All right, now I was talking about homosexuality as being sinful and according to the scriptures it is. And one of the additional reasons that it is because homosexuality if it were in place would have prevented the Messiah from being born. Because ultimately the descendants of Adam and Eve through heterosexual relations produced offspring which then produces the Messiah by which we are saved. And homosexuality of course is ultimately an attack on that as well and it is a sinful action and it needs to be repented of. But here's the thing, you've got to understand that Sodom and Gomorrah when the angels went there, this is really important, I wonder if I can find it, I just thought of this.

In Sodom and Gomorrah, and let's see if I can find that. When the angels, I won't get into there, so when the angels appeared and they went into Lot's home, the people around the home were pressing in and becoming violent and oppressive in their desire to have their sexual orientation manifested upon others. This same kind of thing is happening today and my prediction, I'm not a prophet but I'm just saying the way things are going, and I've been saying this for a long time, I've been saying this since before I've heard others start really saying it, that homosexuality is going to be one of the major means by which the Christian church will be oppressed. And that which is ungodly and unholy will become normalized and we who stand for the truth will become the oppressed. And this is what I believe will happen. And I believe that the issue of Sodom and Gomorrah, when they were pressing in to have their way with others, even against the wishes of those in their own home, that this is what's going to happen. They're going to intrude and seek to intrude into the homes as well. I believe it is prophetic in what that is. And there's more to it, I could get into theology about that but I won't right now, we've got callers. All right, let's get on the air with Robert from Washington, Robert, welcome, you're on the air. Hi Matt, how are you?

Doing all right, hanging in there man, what do you got? Hey, a question about the Lake of Fire for you. So do you, in your reading of the scriptures, could you come to the idea that, is the Lake of Fire retribution for the death of Christ? No, it's a consequence of rebellion against Christ, and it's also the place where the devil is going to be cast in.

And he did his rebellion way before it created order, and so hell, the Lake of Fire, all of that are the ultimate ends of those, and all of those who would reject God. And so I would say it's just retribution, but it's the consequence of all sin, including the rejection of Christ. Yeah, so is there any retribution for the death of Christ? For those who, for example, put their hands on the Lord and killed him, is there any, for lack of a better term, payback for that? Well yeah, there is. Judas betrayed Christ, and Jesus says the better of that man never been born, and Satan entered him.

His condition was very bad. So yeah, there are different levels of culpability and guilt that are before people. So a lot of unbelievers, they think that, you know, they make a joke about the Lake of Fire in hell, I'll be with my friends in hell, and maybe you will be with your friends in hell while you're screaming in agony forever without hope.

But there will be different levels of torment that occur, okay? Okay, appreciate it. Thank you. All right, man. God bless.

All right. Hey, just want to give thanks to Mr. Kitt, who gave a $5 rent in rumble. What happens is that the gradually, you know, a little bit collects, and then we get it, we move it into the CARM account so that we can help pay bills. It's not a whole bunch. You know, $5, if people did $5, that'd be awesome, and that's what we need.

We have different ways of trying to raise the funds to support the missionaries, pay the bills, keep the lights on, you know, all that stuff. Thank you very much, Mr. Kitt. Appreciate it.

All right. Let's get to Dave from Kansas. Hey, Dave, welcome. You're on the air.

I'm doing fine with Matt. I was just watching a Founders Ministry conference with Tom Askel and Vody Baucom and Steve Lawton. They were talking about man versus a trichotomous versus dichotomous view, and, I mean, body, soul, and spirit are just body and soul. And they all came down on body and soul, and I was surprised, because I still believe in three-part being. Now, please tell me where I'm wrong or right. Well, you may be right, you may be wrong. I lean towards dichotomy. But you know, and the reason I do is because the terms body and soul are used interchangeably in a few places. But on the other hand, we have the scripture that says, you know, the scriptures can divide between the soul and the spirit, well, or the body and the soul. And the implication is that there's a differentiation between them. So it could be that the soul is in the form of spirit that's in a body.

And we could say, okay, it's in that form, you know. That seems to be what it is, because Luke 4.24, Jesus says, Spirit does not have flesh and... Oh, that's Luke... No, excuse me. God is spirit.

That's right. Luke 4.24, or John 4.24. And in Luke, oh, man, it's been a while, 24.39, I believe it is.

Let me check it out. Spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see, I have. Let me see if I got that right. It's been a long time to quote that one. That's right.

That's correct. Luke 24.39. So I kind of think that the soul, the thing that we are, is in the form of spirit that's in a body. And if you hold to trichotomy, I'm like, okay, yeah, good, that's fine, no big deal. I don't know.

I see it in the Trinitarian view of God. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the nice things about trichotomy is it kind of tends to reflect more Trinitarian-ness ism. And I like that for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

But look at this. Luke 1.46.47. Mary said, my soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. So soul and spirit are both talked about having the ability to do something, you know, make soul glorifies and the spirit rejoices. Well, it's a song, and so it's poetry.

So I wouldn't take it literally in a sense. But my soul yearns for you in the night, in the morning, my spirit longs for you, Isaiah 26.9. So you can see they tend to be used interchangeably, but so does the heart and the mind. And so you know what? If you hold the trichotomy, more power to you, okay? Well, and the difference is in the New Testament when the Holy Spirit became to indwell believers, which didn't happen before.

So the giving of the Holy Spirit caused a difference, in my opinion, from some of the older texts, because the Holy Spirit now comes and resides in us. But the wall of separation between, you know, should be, you know, it's not really a wall in there in between your soul and your spirit, but there's an intermingling of the two. Well, that's one of the positions. So there you go. All right, Dave, we're on a break.

So God bless, man. Thanks for calling. Good call. No, no, no.

All right. Hey, we have three open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the show. We have three open lines.

Why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. I just want to let you know that tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern time, I do this every Wednesday, I get on Clubhouse, it's a phone app, and then I go and I spend two to three hours just answering questions. People line up and then just ask questions and we talk. And often we get into more detailed explanations and discussions about things. Sometimes people come in to argue with me, and that's fine. We'll do that sometimes, and that's the place to do that, and there you go. So if you want to participate in that, it's at 9 p.m. Eastern time, which is 7 p.m. my time, and you can just download the app on your phone, Clubhouse, and you can go in and just register. It's easy, it's free, and you can look for my name.

Just do a search for Matt Slick, and you can find it. It's easy to do. All right, all right, all right, I think that was it. Was there something else? What's it say? Okay. Can't do it. All right. Let's get to Alex from Utah.

Alex, you're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you today? Doing all right, hanging in there, man.

So what do you got? Good to hear. Hey, so I had a, come across the news report here in Utah. Utah parents is, or filed a complaint against the school district in attempt to get the Bible removed from the school library because their claims is that the Bible is pornographic and holds no value for minors. I just want to kind of get your opinion or how you would even respond to that because the law says that anything, any book that contains sexual content, things like that, in their law is deemed as pornographic. Yeah. The problem with that is that if what you're saying is accurate in any definition, then it is so broad that the evil one can use it to oppress and suppress people.

So there in Utah, the thing to do is contact the officials and say, what's going on with this? And it is, what's interesting is, but I think it's interesting, is the hypocrisy of the left in that they want the Bible removed. I would be curious to know if the same people who say that the Bible is pornographic, which it isn't, but if they would say that, would they, do they approve of drag queens reading stories to children? And I'd like to see if they're consistent, but nevertheless, here's a problem with defining what pornography is because you have to have a working definition to be able to say something is or is not in that category. So this will be one of the problems that'll go through any lawsuit is how you define it. Now there are certainly cases where sexual things are recorded in the Bible, but they're also condemned when they are perpetrations of one person upon another.

I'll be very vague on purpose because of the children might be listening. And so these are just the historical accounts that are there. And this is just in my opinion, it's just another attempt by the enemy to have the Bible removed in all areas of society and schools so that the children can become more pagan and more like the thing that they condemn. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And I guess one of the good blessings comes from it is the whole committee that are in charge of regulating what books and that are in the school now, because of this challenge, they have to read the book, the Bible cover to cover to determine themselves if it is so regular for that if they haven't, but there is, I guess areas in there that I'm sure an unbeliever could be deemed as sexual, but the Bible never, as you know, condones it and always makes known the consequences for it.

But how to respond to that is kind of been fumbling around with, so thank you. Well, you can also take this kind of logic. In Luke 22 36, Jesus told his disciples, sell a cloak and buy a sword.

Well, the sword there is, uh, it was, it is, uh, an advanced weapon for that day. Well, I guess the people who want gun control could then say, well, Jesus advocated violence by buying a sword. So the book advocates violence, so therefore we need to get rid of it. You can do all kinds of things like that, and they ignore everything else just as the left ignores how many people's lives are saved by guns on a yearly basis.

They only represent the negative, and this is the prejudice and hatred of the left that is so prevalent among the Democrats, the evil party that it is, and you want to call me up and debate me on that folks, please do. So that's what it is, and we're going to become under attack and I'm giving myself more and more over to the defeat that we are going to experience as Christians because the Christians aren't uniting and fighting against the onslaught of evil that's coming upon us. And so, uh, I'm being more and more convinced that this is what's going to happen to us because the Christians are laying down their rights and not marching against evil. And so it's bad.

Right. So if you have more time, how, in your opinion, is this an example where Christians would need to do something to at least make themselves known and make known that, per se, the Bible isn't pornographic, and why, and the reasoning being, and how, if that is the case. Well, see, what the left wants us to do is make phone calls and do emails because those can be easily dismissed. Now notice what the far left, look at the homosexual, gay, LGBT, you know, the alphabet Nazis, what they have done to get this promoted and successfully worked in a society. They have techniques, all right? Let's see, rules for radicals. What I'm going to do is go to my website. I outlined a book on Karm rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky and there are principles there.

This is from the pages. Power is not only what we have, but what the enemy thinks you have. Never go outside the expertise of your people. Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

You can kill them with this for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity. Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.

You'll notice in this, and a lot of leftists have used this book, they don't talk about emails and phone calls. A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. A tactic that drags on too long becomes a dragon. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself. The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure on the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the actions, or the reactions, from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign. You'll notice the alphabet Nazis, what they do is they constantly, they will protest, they go to the streets, they put up signs, they shut down businesses, they do make phone calls and emails, but they don't just do those.

They do everything and it's constant so that the constant pressure, people tend to cave under it. What do the Christians do? Turn your other cheek.

Just do nothing. The Christians are looking for an excuse to do nothing, and yet Jesus says, pick up your cross daily and follow after me, and if you don't do that, you're not worthy of me. This is what Jesus said to do, but what Christians are taught is, well, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian surfer Jesus is standing at the door of your heart asking for permission for you to let him in, and your sovereignty and your wisdom, and he just says, turn your other cheek, which they don't understand what that means, and so they have an excuse to do nothing, and the enemy has succeeded greatly in dividing the Christian church.

It's dividing it and now it's infiltrating it, so the division of the Christian church is Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, et cetera, and where we can't fellowship with one another, and now that the division is going on, now it gets inside and now do woke this and that and homosexuality is okay, women pastors and elders, and all this stuff that weakens the church, so the Christian church is just simply not doing anything and it resorts to, I mailed him an email, now what do I do? We need to be out on the streets. We need to be constantly putting pressure on the left to stop. It's going to be expensive.

It's going to cost because the enemy is going to push back. Now hold on. Last year here in Boise, Idaho, there was a gay fest or whatever you want to call it, and where it was the LGBTQ, whatever, blah, blah, blah, across the street in a park, across the street from the Capitol here in the Boise area, which is I'm only 25 minutes away from, and I went down there.

I ended up doing some open-air preaching there, and what happened on the outside of the boundaries of where this event was held, I'll tell you what happened, okay, because this is the kind of thing they do, and I'm not saying we get violent because they weren't, but I'm going to tell you what happened and why Christians are losing their rights because they're not doing what they need to be doing. I'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Please give me a call.

I've got two open lines. All right. Now, so what I was doing was I was letting people know about the issue of when the gay pride thing approved of by the government, man, approved by the government, had this big outing, and so a lot of Christians went down there. I walked through all the stuff.

I walked through and inside, and I didn't start any trouble or anything, but I walked through. I did ask questions of major corporations, representative of them, why are you promoting and supporting sexual behavior? That's my question, and they didn't know what to do because I asked them, it's a sexual behavior and you guys are promoting it.

Why is that? I'm just curious, and that was as rough as I got with them, and they weren't able to answer the question, but you can understand the thing that's going on is that what they were doing was they were submitting to the pressure of the alphabet movement in issues of sex, and because they succumb to it, because they don't have any righteousness in them, and because unbelievers are running those corporations, that's why they're being successful. So anyway, when I was there, I saw some Christians preaching. They were outside the boundaries of where this event was occurring, within 100 feet, and so I went over and listened, and they were doing a good job. The unbelievers, the pro-homosexual, pro-LGBT, they were there yelling and screaming and stopping them, trying to prevent them from being able to speak the word. So after a bit, I joined in, in preaching that is, I joined in and I got up on a little curb and I started preaching the gospel to them as well, and they did the same thing, and they would get in close, yell, scream, cussing, go around mocking, the whole thing. They don't want the truth of Christ. Let me tell you, they will come after you. You Christians, you've got to understand something. You don't stand up now, you'll be kneeling before them later. That's how it works. You don't stand up now and resist evil, you'll be kneeling before their ungodly and pagan thrones in order for you to survive.

This is the cost of willing ignorance and apathy, and it's a problem. Anyway, Alex, sorry, I just kind of got going a little bit. You still there? No, you're good. Yes, sir. Thank you. Yeah.

It's bad news. All right. Anything else? No, sir. That's all I have for you today, and I really appreciate you answering that. Okay. Well, good. Well, God bless. All right.

Thanks for calling. Thank you. Okay.

Yes, sir. Thank you. All right.

All right. Now, let's get on the air with Luke from Maryland. Luke, welcome. You are on the air. Hi, Matt.

This is Luke from Maryland. My question is, the last part of the Creed confirms one church, one baptism, and the resurrection of the dead. Yes. How does this relate to our faith in the Holy Trinity? Well, it's a reference of Ephesians 4-5 in the Creed.

I forget which one it is, Apostles' Creed, I think, but it was just a creed that was sufficient for the time at that point, and so I think there's other statements in that creed about the nature of God, so it's related in that contextually they're joined in the creed. So, since the Presbyterian Church, they have infant baptism, so they don't have any baptism like anti-baptist, so how come we can say that this is one baptism for the remission of sin? Well it depends on what they mean by that, and which baptism is being talked about in Ephesians 4-5. Some think it's automatically water baptism, but it might not be. It could be baptism of the Spirit.

So I'm not saying it is or is either one for sure, I'm just saying it's a discussion that needs to be had, and people make assumptions sometimes too quickly. So the different denominations that would reference that, it would be worth examining their position to see what they're saying and why they're saying it. So that would be something to do in regard, in order to answer your question. So in Pentecostal Church, they have baptism of the Holy Spirit, do you believe in that one? Right. Yes.

Yeah. Yes, because Jesus says he'll be baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts 1-5, and then in Acts 2, the apparent manifestation of that was the movement of the Holy Spirit in the Charismatic form. So I believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the movement of him upon the church, the members of the church, where the Charismatic gifts are then manifested.

That seems to be how it is described in Acts 2 and Acts 10. But in Presbyterian Church, they don't have baptism of the Holy Spirit. Calvinistic view is different, they don't believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit. Some do, some don't.

But you are different? Yeah, I was a PCA pastor and I believe this, I've always believed it. So then you get to, what's his name, a Reformed Charismatic Martin Lloyd Jones, and he believed in that as well. And there are a lot of Presbyterian people that I know who are Reformed in their theology, believe in Covenant theology and the inclusion of infants and things like that, who affirm the Charismatic gifts. In fact, one of my own professors from Seminary, who I am still in contact with, he affirms it as well. You think that you believe in speaking tongues? Yeah, I believe it's possible today, sure.

I don't do it, but I believe it's certainly possible. Okay. You there?

Are you there? So that's a different belief that Calvinists, because the church I go to, they don't believe in that kind of speaking tongues, because they say the canon is closed, and there's no more revelation, there are more speaking tongues. That's what they believe. It's a bad argument.

It's a bad argument. To say that tongues threatens the canon is ridiculous. It's because they're not believing what the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 14, where Paul talks about those who speak with tongues, and never was it an issue of threatening the validity of the canon or adding to it or taking away from it. So right there in the very canon that they, we as Presbyterians, affirm is true, it talks about the use of tongues, and never is it said to be a threatening of the canon. And so they have, in my opinion, misread that issue and have failed to execute it properly. That's my opinion.

I just made a lot of presby's mad. But John Calvin comments that let us simply have an eye to, what is this he's saying something about the edification may rebound to the church. The primary purpose of our spiritual gift is not to edify ourselves, but to build ourselves up to the eyes of others.

Mr. God gives us gift to edify and encourage others. Yep, amen. I agree with that. Yep. That's right.

That's why 1 Corinthians 14 talks about interpretation of tongues for the purpose of edifying the body. Otherwise keep quiet. Yeah.

No problem. Yeah. There are a lot of us Presbyterians who affirm the continuation of the charismatic gifts. In fact, 1 Corinthians 1.7, so that you are not lacking in any gift, in any charisma awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus. I don't, see God can still do what he wants. People can still speak in tongues if God ordains that they do it. He can still give people a word of knowledge and a prophecy.

He can still do it. God has not closed the door on those options and those things don't threaten the canon because if you go to 1 Corinthians 14, you'll see where those are talked about and it never was a threat to the canon. It's the people who say that are misapplying the issue. Okay. Yeah, but there are a lot of prophets, you believe in a lot of prophets and apostles now? No. No.

Not like that. No. This cost me, my pastor at this issue did when I was a pastor back in the nineties and it was very traumatizing. It was very difficult to experience and go through and you know, I'm over it, but I've been just going to tell you, excuse me, just going to tell you that I'm quite familiar with the argument and the issue and I'm absolutely convinced that scriptures teach the continuation of the charismatic gifts. If people disagree, that's okay. It doesn't threaten the canon and uh, and that's it. No problem. Okay.

All right. So are you saying that there is a tongues and prophecy in now, right? That's what he's saying? That there is a tongues and prophecy this time? I'm saying that this can still happen. God can give you a prophecy. I know I've experienced it. I've experienced words of knowledge. I know that others have experienced these things.

There are documentations around where people say, this is what happened. They're Christians. They love the Lord. And nothing in the Bible says the charismatic gifts have now stopped. I'm quite familiar with first Corinthians 13 and I've got a good exegesis on it. I'm not convinced of cessationism at all.

I believe all the gifts are available though not normative and there are no apostles and prophets like there were in the old Testament and early new Testament times. And we are not to have that crazy idiocy that is so prevalent among the charismatic circles. This stuff is out of bounds and out of order. Okay. All right, brother. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Maybe we'll talk to you tonight. Okay.

We'll see. All right. Let's go with Mike from North Carolina. Mike. Welcome. You are on the air. Okay.

Matt. Um, my question is, um, how much of this, um, uh, Christians sitting on their hands, not doing anything has to do with their eschatology. You know, it might be, I can't tell you, uh, if it's directly related to each individual's heart and mind, but the idea of pre-tribulation rapture theoretically, which could be used to teach people how to be apathetic since the world's going to be lost and we're going to get out of here anyway.

So why bother? And I think they could be a contributing factor. And I think it's one of the detrimental effects of, uh, pre-tribulation rapture theory. Okay. Yeah. I, I talked to a lot of Christians and that's where they come from. Yeah.

Yeah. And the reason is, I believe is because it's similar to the positive confession movement. God wants you to be healthy and wealthy. God wants you to escape persecution.

And so both appeal to the flesh. Now I know that I'm, I'm getting, um, uh, you know, except on some toes. Like Mr. Kit in here, I know Mr. Kit, he's in a chat room and he's pre-trib rapture, but he is not apathetic. He's smarter than that. And he knows what we're supposed to be doing. And he goes out in defense of faith and I, you know, and I've seen him do it many times online.

So I'm just saying that just because you're pre-trib doesn't mean you're guilty of that, but I think overall pre-trib can be used for that detrimental side effect. Okay. Okay. All right.

Thanks, Matt. And I, you know, I think that we should be taught from the pulpit, different views. And I think the pastors and teachers need to teach the Christians how to get out of their homes and in, out of the churches and into society and march against unrighteousness and be ready to be jailed.

Yeah, Christians who pick up their cross and follow after Christ is what I'm talking about. Hey, we've got to go. There's the music. So God bless Mike. Thanks for calling.

Hey folks, we are out of time. May the Lord bless you. By his grace, we'll be back on here tomorrow and tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern time will be on Clubhouse. We'll show you a nap on your phone, answering questions for a couple of hours if you want to join in. God bless everybody. Talk to you tomorrow. Another program powered by the Truth Network.