Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at CARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. This is Charlie Spine. I'm filling in for Matt Slick. I'm Matt Slick live today. Matt's enjoying a trip to Israel with a wonderful group of Christian brothers and sisters, and while he's gone for the next two weeks, he's asked me to fill in for him, which I'm happy to do.

My name is Charlie Spine. I'm the one who Matt likes to say is responsible for having gotten him into the apologetics ministry. I once handed him at a Bible study, I handed him a page that I photocopied from History of the Church of the LDS Church, and read it to him first, and then showed him that Joseph Smith had boasted that he'd done more to hold a whole church together than the apostles did, and even had done a greater work than Jesus himself. And when he heard that boast, he became quite agitated. He says, who is that? And I said, well, that's the founder of the Mormon Church. He goes, wait a minute, Mormons are Christians. And I explained to him, well, they claim to be, just like many other groups claim to be Christian, but at their core they have doctrines that are diametrically opposed to Christianity in many places.

So that was a revelation to him, and he got wound up and said, no, we need to do something about this kind of thing. And it got him into the ministry of apologetics, and apologetics is simply taken from the New Testament, 1 Peter 3.15 most notably, that says that as Christians we're to be ready to give answers to those who ask about our faith. And when it says to give a reason, that word apologia in the Greek has been anglicized into apologetics. It means to give a reasoned defense of your faith. It was also a term used in courts of law in those days when your defense attorney would give you a well-reasoned defense in your behalf, and this is what we attempt to do in apologetics. There are several different branches of apologetics that one can get into, but hopefully if you have questions you can call in at our toll-free number 877-207-2276, and we'll be glad to hopefully answer some of your questions about the faith, because that's what we set out to do with CARM. If you go to CARM.org, our website, you'll see in the navigation menu there's literally hundreds of topics and thousands of articles that are there for you to access for free, and as Matt likes to put it, most of his articles are quick and slick, which matches, of course, his name.

And Matt Slick, by the way, is not his radio name, it's his authentic name, so he's a very transparent and authentic individual. The thing is, in this type of ministry, you often deal with people who are hostile to the faith for one reason or another. You get to interact with people who have an aberrant view of what Christianity is, because they've only gotten their information from second-hand sources instead of authentic Christians, and so sometimes you have to deal with misconceptions of what the Christian Church is and what Christians ought to be seen as, rather than some people that will thump you over the head with the Bible. We would rather like to think that Christians should approach others who may not know the Lord with the love of the gospel. That seems to be a more effective way of reaching out to your fellow Christians, as well as the people you meet who are opposed to Christianity.

After all, everybody we deal with is, in God's sight, a human being that reflects his image. We have the image of God that we carry, and for that reason, even those that we believe to be unbelievers, or even those hostile to the faith, are to be treated with respect, as it says in 1 Peter 3.15. When we give our reasons, we give our reasons with respect, because sharing the gospel with people is the most serious endeavor, which has eternal consequences for those who accept or reject. We pray that people's hearts will be opened as we give them the Word of God, because the Word of God says within it that it is alive, it is active, it performs a task that it's meant to perform. So when we share that with people, as Paul did in the New Testament times, he was preaching, and we have an account of a lady who was a nice enough lady in her community, well-respected business lady, had been listening to Paul preaching, and it didn't seem to really affect her much in any way, until it says, the Lord opened Lydia's heart to the words Paul was preaching. Ah, and this is what we pray for those people who just have a skin-deep knowledge or acquaintance with the Christian faith, that God will, as we preach the gospel, that God will open their hearts. It also says that after he opened her heart, she then took heed or paid attention to what Paul was preaching. Of course, he was preaching the gospel.

So our duty is to preach that gospel to the world, and God's function is to open the hearts through that gospel, and open the hearts and minds of those who he wants to receive it, and be enlightened by it, and enriched by it, and then get eternal life through accepting the truth of the gospel, of who Jesus is, what he's done for us, and so forth. Now, I would encourage you to call in with your questions about the faith at 877-207-2276. If you're able to write your question in, I believe if you're on the chat that we have flowing to streaming to Rumble, we're also streaming to Facebook, the CARM Facebook page, and we're also streaming to YouTube, I believe, today. And in any of those streams, you could take advantage of the chat, the chat box, and either Laura or Ernie, who work closely with us in this missionary effort to reach people through the internet and through radio and other media. They can post your questions on the screen for me to read here, and I can read a question off that way, if that's the way you participate. Of course, you can learn more about the Christian faith and how to defend it with the preschools provided by CARM online.

We have a theology and apologetics school, we have a critical thinking school, and you can go to those online schools at carm.org slash schools and get more information about that. Now, I'm going to go to the phones. I think we have someone named Mike from North Carolina, and let me answer Mike with a question about Ezekiel. Go ahead.

Or is that a future battle? Okay. Hello?

Hello, Mike? Yes. Yeah. Okay. In Ezekiel 38 and 39, it talks about a battle that takes place, and I keep hearing myself through the phone.

Do you have a radio on? Anyway, in Ezekiel 38 and 39, it talks about a battle, and a lot of Christians— matter of fact, this is about everybody at the church I go to—believe that that is a future battle. So that's a battle of Armageddon, and I just don't see it. Not when it talks about coming to take plunder and broody and cattle, you know, that's the object.

That's what they're going to get. They're using swords and shields and buckles and bows and arrows, and I mean, some people talk about that. Well, that's described, you know, the arrows are missiles, and the chariots are tanks, and I'm saying, no, that's not how you interpret the Bible. I mean, to me, you interpret the Bible by what's obvious and plain. For instance, God created the heavens and the earth in six days.

That's six days, buddy, that's not six million years. Of course. So when it's obvious and clear, that's how you interpret it. Yeah, well, in those two chapters, especially from Ezekiel, they've been looked at as a prophecy about God and the future invasions of Israel. That's pretty generally been accepted in the Christian view in chapter 39. Of course, the prophecy against God, where the invaders are destroyed. Now, the language of the day would have no concept of modern weaponry, but what they could give is a word picture of an event that's quite a terrible event taking place, and when Ezekiel, when the book of Ezekiel is reporting this stuff, we have to kind of take into account what could be understood by the people of that day. Obviously, they're not going to be able to conceive of a satellite shooting down a particle weapon beam and creating some mayhem on land or sea, but these missiles, these arrows and whatnot, could be the best way for those people to understand what was going on.

But we, looking back, having the New Testament to enlighten us as to the greater meaning of these things, would give us a picture that's altogether more up-to-date as we enter into the years we're in now. Now, you know, I mean, these are open to different views, but the event itself in general, I think, is soundly established as something that will take place, and there will be people you're experiencing, yeah. Go ahead. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hi there, Mike.

I hope you're still with us. Is that helpful? Was that helpful in any way in regards to Gog and Magog and Ezekiel 38 and 39?

Let me see, maybe I need to do that. And Mike, we want to find something harder to describe. It would be to describe something that's directly related to God, but that's beside the point. To me, the book of Ezekiel seems to fit almost like a glove with the book of Esther. Ezekiel comes after Esther, but it was written before Esther. So it seems to me like that is a description of what happened in the book of Esther, where Ezekiel is prophesying something that is going to happen, because the Jews were in captivity, they were scattered throughout the Empire, the Medo-Persian Empire, which included Assyria, because the Medes conquered Assyria, and then Assyria became part of the...so that took care of all of the Jews, and you have Haman here that's going to wipe them out, and they're living in unwalled cities.

If you read Esther 3, and then you read Esther 9, and then you read 38 and 39 in Ezekiel, it seems to fit almost perfectly. And the argument, or the other side of the debate, not an argument, the other side of the debate, that this is a future battle, then that doesn't make any sense, because then the people 2,000 years ago that read this, or 2,500 years ago, were confused, and now today modern man is confused, because it doesn't go along with proper Bible interpretation, when it is clear what they're talking about, that's what you accept word for word. It would be like saying, because if you can say that a bow and arrow was a missile, then you can say anything you want to about the Bible, you're making the Bible, walking on all fours. Well, Ezekiel mentions that the dead will be buried for seven months, and there would be no need to bury people that were dead in the battle described in Ezekiel 38 and 39. This is a description, also sometimes connected to Revelations chapter 20, verse 8 and 9, where it says they'll come out to deceive the nations that are the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle.

Their number is like the sand of the sea, and they're marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints, and so forth. There could be a double fulfillment in what they're talking about, and for us to be rigid and say that this can't be talking about something that happens in the future would be unnecessary. We don't need to be so rigid on that. This is the discussion I had with my Christian brother.

It's a good discussion to have. If you can make buttholes and cheats and chariots and speeders and swords into modern-day weapons of war, then you can make the Bible say anything you want it to say, and that gives a tremendous amount of ammunition to the atheists. I had a discussion in the Bible with atheists online, and when I go to Florida, some family members are not. They're atheists, I'll put it that way. All I'm saying is that if you're too rigid in what you want to interpret it as, and you stick to that and that only, and you're not disposed to discussing with your brothers, or even those who are hostile to the faith, the meanings of these things, then we might be on good ground. I am disposed. I'm not being rigid, I'm being analytical.

I just don't see how you can... But when you read the book of Esther, and a lot of people said, why is the book of Esther in the Bible? It doesn't even mention God, because Ezekiel is describing... Read the book of Esther, or read just 3 and 9. Read chapter 3 and chapter 9 and go 38 and 39 in Ezekiel, and you will see it fits like a glove.

Now we do know that the Bible is full of hyperbole. I was going to say, and I'm having a hard time listening and talking at the same time with his feedback, but what I'm saying is the book of Esther is a clear demonstration of God's hand at work in the events and lives of the people involved. It's unmistakable, and it testifies of his involvement in our lives. Without mentioning his name, he is present in the book of Esther from start to finish, and a careful reading of Esther will bring you a richer understanding of that, that even though he's not outright mentioned, nevertheless his presence is strong.

His hand in guiding situations and circumstances is a wonderful thing to behold. I'm going to move on now to Mike. No, that's Mark from Florida. Go ahead, Mike. You're on the air. Go ahead, Mike. Oh, Mark. Sorry. Hi.

No problem. Hi, Charlie. Hi. I think I'm doing something more correct here. Okay, go ahead. Okay. I just had a question about, is there a way to discern the difference between discipline from God in the form of punishment for your sins and discipline as in teaching? Oh, certainly. Yes. Discipline in teaching is learning a lesson that is to your benefit and to bring you about to a more correct course.

Okay. Punishment would be to put upon you in no uncertain terms the idea that you should never do that again. There was a man in the Corinthian church who was about to be punished most severely for living with his father's wife. Paul said that such a person that's conducting his life in an ongoing fashion as that is to be turned over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh that his soul may be saved. So this phrase is an interesting phrase that was used by Paul talking about some punishment that is going to fall on this guy. If he doesn't change his ways, excommunicate him from the church. He was no longer to be a part of the congregation, but we later on have indications that he repented and left that situation and conducted his life in a more acceptable fashion. So the punishment was held out that this guy could be killed for what he was doing.

Whereas a lesson would be taught to someone that in the idea or the aim or the motive is to keep someone from ever entering into such a... It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Well, I was trying to get back to Mike from Florida and when we came back from the break, I see that, or Mark, I see that he was dropped. I hope he can call back because I'm not exactly sure where I left off with him in regards to punishment versus lessons.

Some are equally difficult to follow sometimes. There's Mark, let me get him back. Hi, Mark? Yes sir.

You're on the air, Mark. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not sure where I left off with you before the break. I might have been a little slow in recognizing, but I hope that was helpful as far as I got with the difference behind discipline as far as punishment. One may be motivated with one goal in mind and the other with another. It did help me because I looked at what you said, that gentleman, if he continued in his ways unrepentant, then that punishment would come instead of yielding to the discipline and following. There's another good example of discipline that could go one way or the other, either be received and correct your behavior or you could end up suffering consequence, was when the people in the Corinthian Church were abusing the communion festival. Some were getting drunk and being gluttonous and so forth, and Paul warns them that you don't approach the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner. Some people like to say you've got to be worthy, but if you wait till you or I are worthy, we'll never partake of the communion supper.

What he said was unworthily. That demodifies the act, not the actor. They were not respecting the memorial for what it meant, and he said, for this reason many of you have become sick and some of you have died. So there becomes a very sober way of looking at the seriousness of memorializing Christ's death and resurrection on our behalf. There's a lesson to be learned from those who will hear it and there's a lesson to be suffered so to speak in punishment for those who disregard and continue to partake of the Lord's Supper in some cavalier and disrespectful manner.

So these are meant for our benefit and also to be an example to those who may be teetering one way or the other. Ananias and Sapphira, their punishment in the book of Acts in that they had lied about a piece of land they had sold and they made believe that the profit from that land, they gave it all to the church. Scripture says they clearly had kept back a part of the price. Peter says, while it was yours, it was your own.

I mean, you could do what you want with it. Why have you deceived in such a manner to lie to the Holy Spirit? And he says, you haven't lied to men, but you've lied to God. Ananias was struck dead and then later, when his wife returned, she had partaken in this conspiracy to deceive the church in this way in masquerading that their offering, which is an act of worship, was complete and when it was not complete in the way they had represented it, and she too was judged. And right after that, when she died and was buried along with her husband, it says the church feared. This is a respectful and very appropriate fear for them to have that you don't play false with the Holy Spirit. You don't do that because there's a consequence for it, and so I'm sure from then on people were very careful not to misrepresent their acts of worship as being something other than authentic and genuine. That's the message they would have clearly gotten from that, so I hope that helps.

It does. There's just one more angle, there's one more deal with that that I wanted to ask, though. By way of persecution, though, how do you discern that, then, because that's a whole other realm of... are you getting punished? How can somebody go ahead and... Yeah, the early martyrs considered persecution, for Christ's sake, to be their privilege. They had a different attitude than some modern people would, however, Jesus does warn us that for his faithful followers you will be persecuted.

So he says, don't be surprised, okay, because of what they did to him, okay? Don't be surprised that they will persecute you. So this is something we can expect in a fallen world as faithful followers of Christ. We can expect at some level, you may not even know it, you may not get a promotion at work because of it, and you'll never know that that was why, but that's a form of persecution. And then there's other openly obvious and flagrant acts of persecution that you might experience as well. So it can appear on or manifest itself on several levels when you understand that the fallen condition of the world right now allows for that to happen, and you shouldn't be surprised if you're a faithful Christian that you might experience that.

In fact, it's more than you might. We're told to expect that we will suffer that kind of stuff. Do you have a prayer line or anything like that that I can call up?

I'm so glad you asked. We have a wonderful fellowship of prayer warriors headed by a lovely lady named Joanne, and you can contact the prayer team at prayer-at-com.org, and it goes right to our prayer team, and you can share as much information as you think is appropriate with them. And of course, they keep it confidential, but I don't know if Joanne calls people back on the phone or not, but she's a delightful individual, and she is a mighty prayer warrior, and to have her praying for your needs is a real, I'll tell you what, it's a real weapon against evil, and it's a real guidance in making it more simple.

That's an email term? You have prayer, it is the word prayer, the-at-com.org, prayer-at-com.org, and it'll get right to them. I'm gonna send a message, because when you talked about persecution, I'm feeling like that that might be the case, because what I'm going through is way beyond, I examined myself, my heart, and everything I've done wrong in my life, and it doesn't seem like it amounts to what I'm getting right now. Maybe I'm wrong, you know, sometimes I tell myself I deserve it, but, you know, I don't know.

Well, if I got what I deserved, I'd be in a miserable condition. I'm just grateful that the Lord graces me with as much as He does, and it makes me ever so more appreciative whenever He tends to my needs. And to have Joanne and our prayer team on your side is a wonderful asset, not just for you, but for the body of Christ who want to take advantage of their skill and their effectiveness and their sincerity in reaching God and lifting up the needs of the body of Christ to Him. So I hope you do contact us through prayer at karm.org. Thanks, Mark. I will, I will. Thank you very much for your time, I will. And you're doing well on the show today, thank you.

Oh, well, thank you, that's nice to hear. Okay, bye-bye. Okay, remember, if you want to call in with your question, it is... I almost gave you my house numbers. I shouldn't do that.

I might get too busy. 877 is the toll-free number. 877-207-KARM.

It spells out 877-207-2276. And we have Melanie, who's got a question. Hello, Melanie.

You're on the air. Hello, Melanie. Melanie, I don't hear anything. Melanie? Hello, Melanie. I'm gonna put her on hold for a minute then. Melanie has a good question, and I'm glad she called it in. I'm hoping we... Are you there, Melanie?

Oh, let me try it again. Melanie, are you there? You're on the air. Okay, I'm gonna put her back on hold. Well, you can call in with your question. It's 877-2... It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hi.

Glad to have you back. And we have Joanne from our prayer team, who I just mentioned a few short minutes ago. Joanne's on the air with us. Would you like to give a message to Mark?

I did. Hey, Charles, you're doing a wonderful job. Oh, thank you. Thank you, my sister. Listen, if Mark is still listening, if he'll just email me his phone number, I'll just be more than happy to call him back, and my Matt can be on speaker, and his wife can be on speaker, you know, whatever, whatever he's comfortable with.

If he's not comfortable, I'll just keep my Matt in the same room to where he can't hear. I don't want to do anything inappropriate, but I just want Mark to...and of course, we have 18 prayer warriors on there, I mean warriors, and so I do hope Mark is still listening. Yeah, well, I appreciate your graciousness. Yes, your graciousness is not unexpected, that's for sure. I've gotten to know you. Even though we're on different ends of the country, I've gotten to know you and your husband and appreciate very much what you do in your role as the centerpiece, really, for people who've mailed their prayer requests.

It comes right to you, and I'm not sure if other people have access to it, or if you filter it out into the many branches. Eighteen other prayer warriors, oh, I just love to hear that. It does my heart good, because I know... I'm sorry, we've got a bad connection, I don't mean to talk over you. Of course, you know I do that, we're just on the phone.

I know. Go ahead. As you know, I've sent you replies to prayer requests, so our prayer team is so wonderful in the Lord that, you know, they send replies to people, and then to me, and then I send, I remove their names and I send them to the people. So, you know, I've never thought about if anybody would feel more comfortable with a phone call, but I would be willing to, unless Matt vetoed that, Matt Slick vetoed that. I'd be glad to, anytime, call someone and keep it appropriate. So I hope Mark...

I'm sure he would. Yes. Well, I appreciate that, Joanne, and please relate to the other 18 that you're talking about, that I hope to, in these next two weeks that I'm substituting for Matt, I hope to bring you a prayer request, a prayer report, a praise report, that many of us have been praying for for a long time for one little girl who was born at less than two pounds, a preemie, that had some huge challenges that we prayed for and has overcome those challenges. She's going to be three years old in April, and I'm making arrangements to go and talk to her mom and have her mom call in and give us some of the details of how the Lord's hand has been mightily at work in the life of this little one and the witness. She is, and the witness she'll continue to be as she grows in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

I hope to share that soon. All 18 of us know little Graceland and love her, though we've never seen her. So please tell her mama that we love her and we continue to keep her little Graceland in prayer. I certainly will. Right, I'm going to ask her mom permission first to share as much as I can, including pictures of that lovely little girl, and people can see a material result in some of their heartfelt prayers and an actual example of our Lord being merciful and working in the lives of these little ones, who he says are... What a mighty, mighty God we serve. Yes, yes indeed.

He's a good, good Father. Well, thank you indeed. Okay, Charlie, I'll let you go. I hope Mark hears it, and we love y'all. It's your day to behave. Love you too.

Bye bye. I'll tell you what, it's amazing to be able to work with people in this ministry that have a passion for such things as praying for others, for such things as showing care for others, whether they're in the body of Christ or not. Someone like Joanne is an asset to the kingdom of God, and 18 people have joined with her in that prayer ministry.

Well, that's just marvelous. I'm looking at the board, and we don't have any callers just now, so I'm going to encourage you and invite you to open your Bible, preferably, and call in to 877-207-2276. You can also support CARM. If this has been a valuable ministry for you, you can support CARM. It's easy. You just go to the donate page, which is CARM.org slash donate, and I think that'll bring you right there.

Or you go to the CARM home page, and you'll see a button that you can click on to access that. We don't ask for much. We ask for any gifts that you can cheerfully give. Paul wrote to the people who give that they were to give cheerfully.

In fact, the word in the Greek is where we get our word hilarious. So if you can't be hilariously overjoyed about giving to our ministry or to the ministry of your local church, if you can't be happy about it, then you need it more than we do, that's for sure. You keep it. But if you can meet all your obligations and commitments and then have some to offer, we, and to offer gladly, we're there for you. So we do have a call coming in now, and I'm looking for, let's see, Melanie. Okay, Melanie has a question. Let me get to her.

Melanie, you're on the air. Hi. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Love CARM. Put in reference to your previous contacts. If your husband of 20-some years has been running around on you the whole time, professes to be saved and going to heaven, I want your thoughts on that, please, and I'll hang up and listen. Well, thank you. Okay, okay, okay. It's difficult, to put it lightly. It's difficult when we have the question of adultery within a marriage. It's a devastating sin. Sometimes it even results in divorce, okay? Not that divorce is preferable. Of course, what is preferable in the body of Christ is that this can be mended, and both sides are committed to doing what they can to overcome such a sin. But the other spouse in such a case, according to Scripture, has several options open to them. Not that the options are obligations, but there's an option for divorce for the reason of adultery. But then, like I said, this is not an obligation. If the offended spouse can freely divorce the one who has committed adultery without committing sin, that's the question. Well, the question is answered.

The answer is the affirmative. They can, at their option, remain married or not, having been offended. But reconciliation is always the first choice, if possible, in any way shape or form. Now, someone who professes to be a Christian and conducts a lifestyle practice of adultery is, I would say in my estimation, questions their authenticity as a Christian. Someone who does that and is a Christian should feel at least convicted for what they've done. If they don't show any repentance and they don't show reconciliation with their spouse, then I'd say something's up with their claim to be a faithful Christian.

Obviously, something's up. So, many Christians, Christian couples that I've counseled at times, have independent and altogether different situations and facts of patterns that have to be brought into consideration. Now, if your church is such that it's a church that conducts itself the way it should, I would say go to the elders. Have the elders guide you in confronting the spouse and seeing if there's any indication that the spouse might want to adjust and return to a faithful relationship and give up these these adulterous affairs.

Or, if there's not, you might want to put consequences to him. If he's claiming to be a member of that church and doing such a thing, the church elders can invite him to leave or suffer the consequences of not remaining a member in good standing of that community. If he submits to the requirements of the spouse and or the church, then that's another consideration.

Now, like I say, each case is tough and has to be handled according to a fact pattern. And if you have a good relationship with your elders of your church and they know you both, that would be my first place to go, of course, with other Christians that can help you along. And you might find a Christian who is influential on your spouse and can help guide them back to the straight and narrow.

That's another resource, too. But you know, it's something where you have to pull together every bit of Christian advice, every bit of scriptural guidance you can come to. And if the forgiveness is offered and rejected, and in that forgiveness you're to decide that you're not going to bring it up again, this can be sometimes a necessary part of doing this. The other party knows their guilt and doesn't really need to be reminded of it, but the consequences that can follow from this should be considered, whereas the blessing of mending the relationship. Okay, I'll come back after this break. Another program powered by the Truth Network.