Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Francis taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everyone, how you doing? It's me, Matt Slick. And you're listening to Matt Slick live. If you haven't heard that before, all you got to do if you want to talk to me, you want to get all you have to do is start a couple of days going on.

Just give me a call at 877-207-2276. And we can then talk about whatever you want to talk about. If you have questions or comments on theology, on apologetics, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i Islam, Eastern Orthodoxy, let's see, near death experiences, logic, a little bit of philosophy, evolution. Oh, man, we talk about all kinds of stuff.

I love to teach theology and answer questions just like I did last night. I don't know how many of you heard that. Wasn't a big deal. It was on a clubhouse and was just dealing a lot with some trolls and some bad people and and stuff like that. So how that happened, but I thought it ended interestingly, and I'm going to tell you what happened with the Roman Catholics, what was and what was going on in the room, because it was it was interesting. And I was quoting information, talking to them about about the truth and stuff like that. Now, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. And if you want to email me, you can just go to your web browser or wherever you go and email me at info at karm dot org, info at karm dot org. And then I can check out your emails and you can say, hey, for the radio and I can get your questions and comments that way.

If you don't want to call, don't want to be on the air. All right. So as many of you know, I do not believe that Roman Catholicism is Christian.

I believe it's false and I believe that it teaches a false gospel. All right. So last night, last night, it was on. I do this on Wednesday nights on clubhouse and people just, you know, I go into a room and then people just start asking me questions. I teach theology, answer questions, all kinds of stuff.

Just get into, oh, whatever it is and a wide variety of topics. And so, you know, praise God for that. All right. So what was interesting was actually the night before. I can't remember because there's so many things I was talking in. It's actually the night before I was in the in what's called big screen.

And it's on in the metaverse, that kind of thing. And so I have an Oculus headset and you go in and you can, you know, you've seen those videos of people falling over things. I just sit in my chair and go into rooms and I look for the opportunity to witness, to share the faith. And that's what I was doing a couple of nights ago. And that about a two hour discussion going over Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. And it was an interesting discussion. It was what was interesting is right when I was given the gospel, the system crashed right when I did that.

Well, I wonder why. So anyway, last night, nothing crashed, but was discussing stuff with the people. And the Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox people were trolling. And what that means, for those of you who don't know, they'd be in a chat room, they'll just start saying things. They don't want to engage. They just want to accuse. The trolls do that kind of a thing.

Matt teaches lies and he's a liar, a blasphemer. And then we'll say, well, come on up to the mic and let's talk. And they don't want to do that. Well, something interesting occurred and that I asked, I asked them what the gospel was. And we had a nice discussion because, you know, I wanted it a lot.

I got to say this. A lot of times the people who are in there helping me try and help too much. And they want to jump in. And when things are a little bit silent for a couple of extra seconds, they want to jump in.

No, no, no, no, no. Let me work with the people. You know, I know what I'm doing and I want to go a certain direction.

It takes a little bit of time. And so I was doing that and I was asking them, tell us what the gospel is to the Catholics. And I think Eastern Orthodox were included.

Tell me what the gospel is. And they couldn't do it. They could not do it.

They they weren't able to. And so this went on for like 15 minutes towards the end of the of the time I was there about three hours, three and a half hours and maybe three hours. I can't remember.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. And so it was it was enlightening. So one guy, check this out. One guy said that I was a blasphemer because I denounced God's true church. You know, the Roman Catholic Church.

Well, here's the thing. You speak out of the abundance of the hearts. And in my opinion, the Roman Catholic Church is a house of idols. And you go in and you'll see these idols everywhere. Mary, Joseph, Jesus, statues of Jesus still on the cross, you know, with Mary next to him.

The magisterium, sacred tradition, the apocryphal books, the apostolic authority. These are all idols. Of course, Jesus is not an idol, but they have them up on the cross.

And usually Mary is there somewhere next to him. And so what I do is I go into that house of idols and I tip them over. And I'll tell you, they sure get irate with me. So it was in this that I said, OK, well, don't you want us to be saved? You know, tell us what the gospel is.

And none of them would. Not a single one of them would tell us what the gospel was. Now, if I were to ask the Christian, what's the gospel?

You'd get a plethora of of statements. And at the beginning of the show, I gave what the gospel was. And I don't know if all the Catholics were there, whoever, whatever. But they sure don't like me anyway. So here's what was interesting. They couldn't give or refuse to give the gospel message.

Now, why is that? It's because they don't know the gospel. See, what they know is their church, their church is where you go for salvation. The church is where you go for grace. The church is where you go for authority. The church is where you go for tradition. The church is where you go for interpretation of scripture. The church, the church, they're idolaters. And you see, when I asked this one guy, I said, look, because he was focusing on me a lot and was really angry, and I said, look, you know, I don't know the gospel.

I'm angry. And I said, look, tell me what the gospel is, please. And he wouldn't.

10 or 15 minutes this went on. So I dressed the room and I said, if he were to say that the gospel is a death, burial, resurrection of Christ and justification by faith in Christ and believing and trusting what he did, then he'd be speaking against his own church. So he can't do that. And if he says anything else, like you have to obey the commandments, you got to do what the Pope says, whatever it is, then I'd have ripped it off, rip it to shreds by going to the scriptures. So he knew it that either way he went and the others in the room like that, either way they went, they couldn't give an answer. And this is telling because they could not say what the gospel was. So this one guy then said that, uh, I was damned, uh, because I reject the true church.

So then what I said was, I said, look, tell me if I'm, uh, damned or not, if I'm judged to hell, whatever it is you want to say, uh, based on what I'm gonna tell you now. I said, I believe in the Trinity, one God and three distinct simultaneous persons. And the word became flesh and that's Jesus, he has two natures and he kept the law perfectly. And just as he walked perfectly in that law, he died a perfect sacrifice on the cross and he rose to the death of three days. And Jesus says, Matthew 11, 28, he says, come to me and I'll give you rest. And in John 14, 14, he says, ask me anything in my name and I will do it. I said, I trust in my Lord and savior Jesus. I looked to Jesus and I said, I don't put my faith or my trust in a church or my own sincerity or my baptism or my sacramental participation or my good works or my repentance. I put it in Jesus and what he's done.

I look completely to him and I trust in him alone for the forgiveness of my sins. And I asked Jesus to forgive me. I said, so tell me Catholics, am I saved or not saved?

Am I okay or not okay? They wouldn't answer the question for that either. This is very interesting to me. They refused to answer the basic questions of what the gospel was. And when I appealed to my dependency on Christ completely and totally, and I said, is that okay? I was very calm the whole time. I said, is that okay? Am I judged now still?

What do you think of that? No response. Now, maybe they responded because I was doing a couple of things, but I was paying attention to the text as possible.

I certainly missed something, but I didn't see anything. And I kept asking, tell me if what I said is true and I believe what I said, then am I okay with my Lord? Or as you say, am I damned? What's your answer? And they could not answer. To me, this was proof that they're in a false religion.

It's proof. They don't want to give up their loyalty to the church. They don't want to give up their loyalty to the authority of their church, the priesthood of their church, the sacraments of their church by which grace is infused into you. The priesthood, the baptism, the sacraments, the magisterium, the tradition, the apostolic succession and authority, the church, the church, the church, it's all about their church. In fact, I told them that when I listen on the radio to Catholic stations, and I do, I listen to them because I'll go someplace, I'm going to listen to something interesting, I'm listening to music, I listen to something that will feed me, you know, and I like to listen to the Catholics sometimes or Eastern Orthodox Radio or Evolution or UFO Radio.

I enjoy that stuff, okay, so I'll listen. And so when you listen to the Catholic stuff, what they say on the Catholic radio is, come home to the church. It's not come home to Christ, trust in Christ, appeal to Christ. It's come home to the church. And people will call up and they'll say, you know, I was away from the church for many years and I've come home to the church.

I've returned to the church. Well, I said to these guys last night, I said, on the day of judgment, your church won't be there with you. Your magisterium won't be standing next to you appealing to God. Your sacramental system won't be there next to you appealing before God for the forgiveness of your sins. Mary won't be there saying, here's this person that needs to get into heaven.

I said, none of them are going to help you. So the only advocate you have is Jesus, and if you trust in him, he will be your sole advocate before God the Father, the righteous and holy judge. I said, all that you have in your church is going to stay here.

I said, when you face God, who are you going to face him with? You're going to face him with Christ, whom you've put all your trust in, or are you going to face him with your magisterium, your cardinals, your bishops, your priesthood, your confessionals, your rosary, your merry prayers, your whatever. All these things that the Roman Catholic Church has put as roadblocks to the path of salvation. The Roman Catholic Church has put up so many hindrances and made it impossible to achieve salvation through its system of righteousness.

It's an evil system, it is. It's an anti-Christ system because it hinders people from coming to faith in Christ. That may not sit well with a lot of Catholics, that's okay, you can call me up and you can disagree and that's fine, but I would suggest that if you're a Catholic listening or you're a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness, appeal to Jesus and Jesus alone for your salvation. But then again, your faith is only as good as who you put it in, who is your Jesus. Do you believe in the one in the Bible or do you believe the one that your church says is the right one?

Don't put your faith in a church. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick.

All right, hey, well, pretty welcome back to the show, let's get on the air here with Alberto from Georgia, Alberto welcome, you're on the air. Yeah, good afternoon, Matt Slick, yeah, the question is about the balloon that passed over the United States, do you think that the Chinese will remotely download data to their servers while it's passing by across the United States? I don't know, I don't know what their technology is, I don't know if the US was jamming it, I don't know if the US purposely let it go through in order to feed misinformation, I don't know, I'm not privileged with that information, I think they should have shot it down right away and show strength, but, you know, why are they not doing nothing about it? Well, because we have weak leadership, that's why we have weak leadership, they're trying to destroy the country, okay, everything that's being done is in, if you assume the leadership is trying to destroy the country, then everything you look at makes sense, okay, food distribution plants are burning up, raising the price of fuel so that every other price of all things increase, open the border so that we're being invaded, promote abortion so that the population is being replaced, LGBTQ, transgender this and that, getting into the kids, socialism being taught in the schools, fomenting racism, division, promoting socialism, these are all the things that you would do if you wanted to destroy the country, and if you assume that position and you say, hey, all things make sense, then it all comes together and you go, oh, I get it, yeah, that's what's happening, that's why it's happening, okay. Yeah, so the mainline news media doesn't cover that, they only protect him, but when it comes to Trump, they attack every little thing he does wrong, right? Right, also the communist goals, the 45 goals of the communist party, one of them was to get a hold of the news media and make it leftist so that it slants the information towards socialistic ideas and attacks conservative, constitutionally based stuff. Another thing that's happening is, everybody calls this, and I'm surprised Fox makes the same mistake, calls us a democracy, we're not a democracy, we're a constitutional republic and that is very significant, we're a constitutional republic, we are not a democracy, and they need to go into the proper way of saying things, stop using the word partner, say husband and wife, things like this, we need to fight back against the erosion of truth, that's what we've got to do, okay.

Yes, unfortunately our government, even our agents, government entities are all in cahoot together, right? Well, I don't know, there's probably a lot of good people out there, but it's called task theology, you have a section of scripture, okay, what's the reason they're writing, and you assume something and things make sense, so in presuppositional apologetics you assume a certain position and then, boy, everything makes sense, if you assume, hey, we're trying to destroy the country, and then you list all the things out, well, that's consistent with that assumption, and so if I were on the news and people were interviewing me about something, not that they would, but if I were, I'd say, oh, these are the things that are happening, I'd list out five or ten things, these are consistent with the goal of destroying the country, this is exactly what's happening, the news media needs to address this, and the issues need to be stopped, you can't have the FBI be what it is anymore, the IRS be what it is, and defunding the police, letting criminals out, giving the criminals drug paraphernalia, you can't do this kind of stuff and have a country survive, you can't have multiple languages and multiple cultures in the one nation, it'll fragment, it's going to happen, and I'm from Southern California, and there were certain areas you didn't go into, because in one area it was, let's just say the ghetto, there were certain areas in LA, you didn't go in there as a white person, you're risking your life, there were certain areas where the Hispanics were predominant, and you're risking your life potential, not as much, but there as well, because they had their own style, their own culture, their own this, and if you went in, you invaded, so if this becomes normal in the United States, where divisions occur like this, then the country can't survive, and there's just lots of stuff, okay, so this Chinese spy balloon, well, just think about it, the Biden crime family is in cahoots with some working forces, in his state of the union so-called speech, there were so many lies and false facts that were presented, and the people were applauding a lot of this idiocy, so there's very less, there's not much left, in my opinion, of the integrity of the people who run our country, they're spending us into oblivion, et cetera, so that's why I say these kind of things, because even though you go to a church, and oh, God wants you to be healthy and wealthy, don't worry, and I'll quote verses about, you need to be prosperous, so just send in $500 to our church, the seed faith, and God will bless you, and they're fleecing the flock, and so people are being led down the pit, so that they won't believe the truth of the necessity of picking up the cross, you know, Luke 9 24, we're gonna follow after Christ, pick up, you're gonna lose your own life, even, and the severity, the necessity of following Christ, we need to stand up to the evil that's on the rise, and we need to do that, and the Christian church isn't doing it, et cetera, et cetera, but this is all that's going on, so Christians need to be prepared for what's coming, they do, that's what Jesus says, you know, you know the signs of the times, just read them, and get ready, and there's ways to get ready, so they are woke, and they're not preaching the gospel at all, some, and they do cover it very, very, very thinly, yeah, well some, there are some good churches out there, there are a lot of good churches, and there are, but there's just not enough of them, and they're not united, so one of the failures of the Protestant movement is so many fractured denominations, and we're not united, and so we're too busy arguing against each other about Calvinism, Arminianism, Weislingism, the pre-trib, post-trib, no, we need to look at Jesus Christ and him crucified, and march together against the evil that's out there, that's what's going to happen, so, anyway, yeah, like Jesus said, a kingdom divided men cannot stand, right, that's right, Matthew 12, yeah, mm-hmm, so anyway, thank you, okay, alright, well God bless, alright, God bless, okay, alright, let's get to Jacob from Wisconsin, hey Jacob, welcome, you're on the air, I was wondering about, would you say that it's irrational when the universal atonement people believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of people he knew would go to hell? Yes, it is illogical, because they don't understand what atonement means, and atonement is a sacrifice that is meant to appease, but it's also called a propitiation, and that's 1 John 2-4 and 4-10, a propitiation is a sacrifice that actually removes away the wrath of God, it doesn't make a potential based on something you do, it's an actual removal, and once you understand this, then it's not logically possible that the wrath of God is removed from every individual because people go to hell, it's just not consistent logically to hold both those positions like that, hold on, we'll be right back after these messages for Open Lines folks, if you want to give me a call 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276, here's Matt Slick.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the show, let's get back on the air with Jacob from Wisconsin, Jacob welcome, alright, so we had a break there, but did that help you? Yes, what I've been thinking is that to believe that only really makes sense if you also would believe open theism, because then God doesn't really know who's going to go to heaven, so it's just a tone for everyone. You couldn't do that either, that's not logical either, it doesn't make any sense. Logical conclusion is open theism, do you think that's correct? Open theism with a combination of universalism, because what they do, people think, mistakenly they think that the work of Christ on the cross made salvation possible depending on your goodness, on your ability to decide, your ability to believe, your ability to get baptized, it depends on you, and this is arrogance, because Jesus is the one who forgave, who cancelled the sin dead at the cross, Colossians 2.14, he's a propitiatory sacrifice, 1 John 2.4, and it means that the sin dead is cancelled at the cross, that's what it means.

I show this to people online all the time, and I'll tell you the way they try and squirm out of these things, it's interesting. So you know, they're just inconsistent, it doesn't mean they're not Christian, it just means they're inconsistent, that's all. Because if they're honest, wouldn't it be, they would have to admit that the reason that they're saved, they're the determining factor, because if God gives an equal amount of prevenient grace to everyone, and they have the wisdom to accept it, they would be getting credit.

Exactly. And here's a problem with the idea of prevenient grace, which I call Kindergarten Theology. Because prevenient grace means the grace that comes before, God gives it to people.

Well there's Bob and Frank, they're identical twins, every day in their life is identical. And then Bob believes the gospel and Frank does not, why? None of the prevenient grace that God gave enabled Bob to believe, but Frank chose not to. Well what's the difference between them? Why did one believe and another one did not? Because that was their freewill choice.

Well wait a minute, if they're identical, what's the difference? Why would one believe and the other one did not? They can't answer the question, but we can go to Philippians 1, 29, God grants that they believe. That's why one believes and another one does not. People don't like to hear this, they don't like to hear God centered theology, they want to hear man centered theology, it's up to me and my wisdom and God won't do that because it's not fair. And then I just recommend reading Romans 9 and you can see where God raises your own objections through the apostle Paul and then answers them. This is what we need to be teaching in church, the authority and the supremacy of God and that he's the author of our salvation. Not us and our wisdom, not prevenient grace that enables someone to be neutral in his position so that he or she can then freely choose God. This is all humanistic philosophy that has no place in the Christian church. But it is put in there by the ignorant and by those who don't understand what the truth of God's word really says. And so the truth of the gospel and the Christian church power is watered down because of man centered theology, so the glorifying theology that God is the sovereign king, the author of our salvation.

This is what happens all over the place because people, they go after those teachers that tickle their ears. And what's the most natural thing? I'm the one in my wisdom who chose God. It was up to me in my goodness and that's how I chose. That's what humanism teaches, but that's not what scripture teaches. And something that I see with these rabid anti Calvinists is they just seem to have a lot of hatred and they say the God of Calvinism is evil and they say that Calvinists believe a false gospel and they just say all this stuff and it's just irrational. I get the same thing, the same kind of irrational response when I talk to Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, when you start tipping over their idols. You've got to understand that the idols are all ultimately self constructed and self centered.

They want to go to some idol of some sort in order to influence and gain power. And what Reformed theology does is it removes that completely and says, no, this is up to God. Now we can certainly pray once we're Christians and ask and intercede for others and ask God to save. We don't know how it all works, but we know that God's a sovereign king and James 5, 16 says the prayers of a righteous man are built much with God. But we need to stop with this manby-pamby theology that's being promoted all over the United States. The manby-pamby theology is simply that God loves everyone.

He's a blonde haired, blue eyed, Caucasian surfer Jesus, stands at the door of your heart asking for you to let him in because he can't do anything unless you decide. And this foolishness is being taught in too many churches and it needs to be rebuked, it needs to be buried out of the trash heap where it belongs. And if people would stop believing these half truths and stop believing in the man centered theology that is so prevalent out there, maybe then they might bow the knee to the true and living God in the truth of who he is in his sovereignty and realize that prayer needs to be offered to him, constantly to ask him to send us where he wishes us to go.

And then you won't be saying things like, hey, you know what, I need to be healthy and wealthy. I need to pray and get something from God because it's about me. It's about how God loves me and what God can do for me. And this is a difference between good theology and bad theology. Good theology is focusing on the Lord Jesus Christ and what he's done. Bad theology focuses on what can I get from God.

It seems that their theology is an emotional based theology because they just don't, they have an emotional problem with the idea of God choosing some people and God having freedom to save who he wills. That's correct. That's exactly correct. And when people raise that objection, I say, well, 2 Thessalonians 2, 13 says, God chose you for salvation from the beginning. Or I go to Acts 13, 48, as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Or 1 Peter 1, 3, that you have been caused to be born again. Or John 6, 44, you cannot come to me, says Jesus, you cannot come to me unless the father draws you. Or he also says in John 6, 65, you cannot come to me unless it's granted to you from the father. These are the verses that show who is in control, who's a sovereign king. Now we need to submit to that knowledge and that truth and get back on our knees and say, Lord, you're the king, not me. And you get rid of all these idols of self-service and the idea of God just loves everyone equally because he's just that way.

The blonde haired, blue eyed, Caucasian surfer Jesus dressed in a woman's nightgown, standing at the door of your heart asking for permission to let him in to save you because it's up to you and your wisdom. This is foolishness. It's not scripture. I've been studying the scriptures for decades and I'll debate anybody publicly on this.

Formal debate, televised, radio, let's do it. But this is what the scriptures teach and I'll go to the scriptures. I won't get angry.

I'll just tell you, it's what it says. If you want to say it's all up to you and your wisdom, I'm going to say then if that's the case, then why does it say you can't come to him unless it's granted to you from the father? It's in Luke 65. If it's up to you and your wisdom, why does Jesus say that? Well, we don't like that he chooses who he wants. Well, then take Romans 9 out of your Bible.

Take Acts 13, 48 out of your Bible, 2 Thessalonians 2, 13 or John 1, 13, you're born again, not of your own will. Then take it all out of your Bible because they want man-centered theology and this is the problem. People need to understand who's the sovereign king and it's the Lord Jesus Christ, not ourselves. We need to get off the throne.

There's only one person on the throne, the Lord Jesus and he's the sovereign king. Once we are submitted to his will and his truth, we can beseech, we can pray, we can ask, we can implore, Lord, save more. Change me that I might be an instrument in your hand to witness to more, to speak to more, to raise children for you, to be a good witness at church and teach me to have the strength and the confidence to face the consequences of my proclamation of truth and standing on your word.

No matter how difficult it gets, that I will still trust in you. Because that wouldn't work if God's here to make you healthy and wealthy. And then all of a sudden you lose your health because you're standing on the truth of the gospel. Then what do you do?

Well, I must not be right. I've got to get more health and wealth prosperity gospel. I have to get more man-centered theology and stuff. Here's something for the Armenians who are listening and don't like what I say.

Let me ask you a question. Do you pray and ask God to change someone's heart? Because if it's up to their free will, why would you ask God to do that? If you ask God to change someone's heart, you're asking God for his sovereign intervention into the heart and the mind and the will of someone to save them. You're praying like a Calvinist, you're praying like a Reformed person.

Lord, please work on that person and save them. Because they're not capable of themselves to believe. Because they're bound by sin, Romans 6 through 14. They're slaves of sin there. They can't seek for God.

They don't do any good. Romans 3, 10, 11, and 12, they cannot receive spiritual things, 1 Corinthians 2, 14. This is what needs to happen. There needs to be revival in the Christian church, but it won't happen as long as man-centered theology is leading the way, like it is in America.

In assemblies of God churches, in Nazarene churches, in so many non-denominational churches, in so many areas, that's unfortunate, in Catholicism, in Eastern Orthodoxy. Yeah. Hey man, you let me talk a lot, I'll put you on hold and we'll get back to you after the break, okay?

Yeah. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Before we get back to the callers, I want to let you know that we're moving, focusing more and more on Rumble. Rumble's like a YouTube replacement, rumble.com, please go check it out and sign up there. If you want, I don't think you have to get in, just like YouTube, but because the left is becoming more and more restrictive, we are moving that way. We only have 134 followers on Rumble, it does take a while in order to get those followers and that's okay, but please consider doing that because there may come a time where we just don't even use YouTube anymore and then we're going to go over to Rumble. Speaking of which, you can do something called Rants, a Rant is where you give it a little bit of cash donation and the reason I'm mentioning that is because Kit did that.

Hey Kit, thanks for the support, we certainly appreciate it. Alright, let's get back on the air with Jacob, Jacob welcome, you're back. I was wondering, I have an argument that I have used a few times against these anti-reformed people and I say if God has a desire to save everyone without exception, then that would mean that Jesus had a desire to save Judas, which would mean that if Jesus did save Judas, that would mean that the prophecies regarding the betrayal would be invalidated, so then that would mean that Jesus had a desire to make God a false prophet, do you think that's a good argument? No, no I don't, because God can desire one thing and arrange something else, I've written an article on this and so we have to be careful how we use desire because God, for example in Acts 17, 30, he commends everyone everywhere to repent, but he does not grant repentance to everybody.

There is that, there is a theologically deep reason for that, we can get into that. You're on the right track though, I get what you're saying, but you've got to understand what the issue is of how can God desire one thing and arrange another, and I can show you what an article is that discusses this if you're interested. Would you say that God ultimately only has one will? Well, ultimately there's the perfect will of God, but it's revealed in what we would call prescriptive will, permissive will, decorative, things like that, but yeah, in that sense it depends on what we mean by ultimate, but yeah, okay, alright? Decretive will, that's the only true will that he has, we just see it in multiple ways.

Interesting how we define decorative, but you're on the right track, and so prescriptive will is he wants us to not lie, and permissive will is he permits us to lie, so ultimately all those are under his sovereign decrees, but we differentiate in order to more accurately discuss theological issues, but okay buddy, we've got some callers waiting, so we've got to get going, alright man? You keep up the good work, you keep up the good thinking, alright? You keep it up. Alright man. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. God bless. Alright, let's get on the air with John from North Carolina, John, you're on the air. Hello Matt, hey, thank you, thank you, thank you for taking such a strong stand on truth as it refers to our country and our faith, you know, the whole, we are a constitutional republic and that sort of a thing, thank you.

It's important for people to understand where it is. Yeah, and you inspired me too with the Catholics not even discussing salvation, that was enlightening. Question I have for you, I had a thought today, the dual nature of Christ, Daniel 9, when Jesus is in heaven, I have discussions, let's say, with cult members that are in my family with The Way International that Jesus Christ is not God. Whoa, wait, hold on, hold on, you actually, wait a second, you actually have someone in The Way International? Really?

Yeah, isn't that something, I know they're dying off, but. Wow, there's so few of them left, Victor Paul Wierwell, right, he wrote a book, Jesus is not God. Wow, he is so adamant and it's hard to get through with, he's so stubborn in his beliefs and he calls us obviously Trinitarians and we're wrong, so yeah, one of the things that this gentleman says, and he's my father-in-law, is that Jesus was always called the Son of God, so he's the Son of God, he's not God, he wasn't preeminent, he was born from Mary the Virgin and that's when he began, he wasn't before then. So I come back with, yes, but he always referred to himself as the Son of Man and that's obviously because of Daniel 9. Doesn't really know what to do with that, you know, but my question is, the dual nature of Christ, what was he pre-carnate before he was man, what was the dual nature of Christ?

Because I understand Cryptophanes, you know, maybe Melchizedek and that sort of a thing. No, no, no, no, no, hold on, hold on, I wanted to give you some advice that when someone says what he's doing, you know, he's not God, he's not this, he's not that, you can argue with them, but they're well trained in that cult, the way international, so what I would suggest is you go, okay, from that position then, is it not true that Jesus says come to me and I'll give you rest, Matthew 11, 28, yes, he says ask me anything in my name and I will do it, John 14, 14, yes, does he forgive sins, yes, because he has all authority, do you do that, do you go to Jesus and ask him to forgive you of your sins? Yes, he does. He does? Well, he would say he does, yes. Have you asked him specifically if he does that?

I don't remember. Okay, do you ask him specifically, because if Jesus is not God, they can't pray to him, and so they'd be praying just like they did in the Bible, so try that approach and just see what he says, okay, alright, alright, now, the Trinity is one God in three distinct simultaneous persons, Jesus did not come into existence until 2,000 years ago in the conception, because Jesus by definition is one person with two natures, the union of the two natures did not occur until 2,000 years ago, prior to that, the second person of the Trinity, the word, was just always God, excuse me, yawned, whoa, sorry about that, and so the word became flesh and dwelt among us, that's all, and so Jesus became what he was at the conception, in the union of the divine and human natures, that's all. That's interesting, we were created in the image of God, and if he appeared as a Christophany in the Old Testament, he appeared as a person, so did he appear as a person, it's stated at the right hand of God the Father and Daniel 9. Hold on, hold on, you said appear as a person, now you have to define what you mean by person. Person has a significant, hold on, let me explain why, it has a significant meaning in the context of the Trinity, so just as long as you're aware of that, but whenever God appears, and you can go to, for example, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, where God appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, and you can show that to him, alright, and you're right, it's a Christophany, so what I would do is also ask him, what does Exodus 6, 2 and 3 mean, God spoke further to Moses, it says God spoke further to Moses, not an angel, God spoke, and said I am Yahweh, who is that, and he'll say well it's God, Yahweh, ok good, and he appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, right, that's what it says, ok good, then you go to John 6, 640, oh man I've quoted it 800 times, John 6, 46, whew, you know you quote something so many times you forget what it is, where Jesus says that no one has ever seen the Father, so then you have to ask the question, who was they seeing in the Old Testament, who is God Almighty but not God the Father, that will sink his boat, ok, ok, interesting, oh yeah, it's really quick and slick, Exodus 6, 2 and 3, just don't say anything, just say, is it the case that God appeared, yes, it wasn't the Father, John 6, 46, so who's God Almighty who's not the Father, yeah that would confound him, I agree, ok, ok, so when you said person, how did he appear, how did he appear, the day he appeared, there was no bodily form of the word in heaven, but who was it that sat next to in Daniel 9 with the ancient of days, there's a difference between a manifestation, there's a difference between a manifestation and an incarnation, ok, so an incarnation is permanent, a manifestation is just taking the form of a man, doesn't mean he was a man, just the appearance of, just as angels can do, it's interesting though that he always referred to himself as the son of man, and he's referred to as the son of man in Daniel as well, yes that's true, and he sits next to the ancient of days, so the word sat next to him, I mean was it any sort of a bodily form at all, you have to read the context to see because if it's a vision and you don't want to argue with anything that has to do with vision stuff, ok, so you can also ask him this question, and sometimes it stumps them, so does the term son of God mean he's not God, they'll say yes, then what does the term son of man mean, that he's not man, yeah that's the angle I was going from, yep, just ask him that simple question, also you've got to remember John 5.18, Jesus was breaking the Sabbath, that's what the Jews thought the Sabbath was, not only that but he's calling God his own father, making himself equal to God, that's right, yeah they would obviously just come back and say son of man means that he's fully human, say fine, he's fully human, we agree, he's fully human, no problem with that, and yet he said that he'll be with you always even at the end of the earth, how does just a man do that, how's a man going to be with everybody everywhere, Matthew 28.18 and 19, how is it John 14.23 says the father and I will come and make our abode with you, how can a mere man live in multiple people at the same time, can you answer those questions, okay, very good, all right, thank you for spending so much time, I know you got other callers, have a blessed evening, I appreciate you, bye, thanks bye, all right let's get to Ann from Charlotte North Carolina, Ann welcome, you're on the air, hi, in regards to the third conversation for our previous, how about wanting to reject the idea, reject the idea, you're breaking up a lot, but let's see if we can get through you, I'm sorry, you know what Ann, I'm sorry, the connection is so bad, it's just so bad I can't hear you, I can't understand you, you want to call back to, sorry, call back tomorrow, okay, we're almost out of time, but call back tomorrow, I want to hear what you have to say, all right, sorry about that, just a bad connection, let's get to our last caller Suzanne from Alabama, Suzanne welcome, you're on the air, hey, I just wanted to, well now I'm echo, I just want to ask you, I am not a Calvinist that I can tell anyway, I am probably a semi-pojian person, and for 90% of my books are Calvinistic, and I have a huge library, and I have been studying and studying and studying, we only have about 30 seconds, we only have about 30 seconds in the show, could you, okay, all I wanted to know is that the woman that you talked to about Armenianism, you had said that you had asked her if she wanted the name of an article, and I didn't hear her say the name of an article, the website, my other website, another one is CalvinistCorner.com, CalvinistCorner.com, one word, you can check it out there, the articles are there, okay, all right, sorry about that, we're out of time, may the Lord bless you, and if you don't believe in Calvinism, that's okay, all right, but believe in the truth of what Scripture teaches, hey, we'll be right back, well, maybe tomorrow, God bless everybody, have a good evening.