Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to email me a question or an issue, all you have to do is email me at info at karm.org and be able to see those.

Just look at them and we can address your questions via email if you like that. And if you want to call, we have four open lines 877-207-2276. All right, all right. You know, I just feel like just jumping right in and getting on the air with Anthony from Kansas. Anthony, welcome. You're on the air.

Hello, Anthony. I don't hear him. I have a question. The issue about music, what kind of music is appropriate for a Christian to listen to?

I've heard some people say, maybe if I'm technical, a Christian in college or whatever, especially a Dr. Gene Kim says that hot rock, jazz, R&B, and so on, not to be listened to by Christians. You're hard to understand. You're breaking up. You're breaking up and it's really muffled. So I lost you something about Christian music.

And then somebody said something and then that was all I could make out. Could you repeat that? Oh, sure.

I'll try to keep slower. For some Christian ministers say, maybe he's here, physical, a Christian in college, whatever, especially a Dr. Gene Kim says that, um, DCM music is a fluency of flesh. You should never be listened to by Christians, you know.

Wait, wait, wait. You are hard to understand. So let me ask you, are you saying that somebody is saying it's sinful to listen to secular music?

Yes. Well, I'd ask them, show me in the scripture where that's the case. Well, they tend to defend that with Ephesians 5, 1817, 1819, and Colossians 3, 1617. The work, yeah, the flesh, don't get drunk with wine and dissipation and, you know, speak to each other in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, singing big melody. If he's going to take that to mean that we have to speak to each other with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, then can we do anything else besides that? If he wants to say that psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are how you to speak, because it actually says to speak to each other with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, it doesn't say speak only this way.

It says use them, speak with them. The ideas are speech to be sanctified, but that's what it says there. So if he's talking about listening to spiritual or non-Christian music and it's sinful to do that, he can't use this verse, Ephesians 5, 19, to say that. Okay, so a better way, a better area to go to for him would be Philippians 4, 8. Whatever is true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, anything, excellence, worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

So we are admonished to dwell on those things which are good. Now that becomes another issue, because can we listen to reggae, for example? Or what about the blues? I love the blues, and I love reggae. Can I listen to that? Yeah, blues are great, reggae is great.

I'm sorry, what? Not trashy blues, but just good old American music. Yeah, and then what about classical music? Was Mozart a Christian? Did we listen to Mozart? How about Beethoven?

There's no words spoken, it's just classical. We listen to that, or is that sinful too? See, this is why we have to be careful to put parameters on people and say, it's sinful if you listen to non-Christian music. Well then, what qualifies as Christian music? If you want to listen to Hillsong, Hillsong is going apostate. So would you listen to that? Who do you listen to? Amy Grant, who divorced her husband, and I don't trust her, and now she's supporting LGBTQ? Do we listen to her music? It becomes very problematic.

Now we need a list of what to do and what not to do. Let the Holy Spirit play. In fact, it reminds me, when I went to college, I was checking out Christian colleges in Southern California. I went to this one college, and I was interviewing them to see if I wanted to go to their college.

Not if they could pawn me in. I was interviewing them. I was in my late 20s, and I had a meeting with, I think, a dean. He said, so I see your document here. It says I can't do any dancing if I'm attending here. He goes, that's right. I said, okay, I'm not married yet. Can I dance with my wife at my wedding?

Is that okay? He goes, well, yeah, of course it is. I said, but it says no dancing. And if it says no dancing, that's what it says, no context, just no dancing, then I'm not allowed to dance with my wife at my wedding, according to what this text, your document says. He goes, yeah, I can see what you're saying. So I'm listening to a song in my kitchen while I'm cleaning up.

Can I dance then? And I said, this is a problem. You guys are playing the Holy Spirit.

The issue here isn't a form of legalism, because then you're going to encourage people to sin. And I didn't go there, let's just say. So we have to be careful. A lot of contemporary Christian music is crud. A lot of it's good.

One of the projects I want to do is to analyze Christian lyrics from different songs. And just say, hey, look at this. Some of them are beautiful tunes and full of heresy. So you've got to be careful. Well, some people say that even a style itself can lead you toward the world. Even a what? Can what? That's the style.

The style. Well, here's another issue. This is a real-life issue with me. I'm autistic. I have Asperger's. And I also have 80 decibel ringing in both ears. I've had this for over 30 years, this annoying tinnitus.

80 decibel is extremely loud. I wear hearing aids. So if I go into a place where there's high-pitch noises, I don't do well. And songs and music that have horns in them, I don't like it. I find it unpleasant.

It's just because of my physiological makeup and because of this problem. So what I like to listen to that's soothing is heavy metal because it's the opposite end of the sound scale. And so I'll listen to certain sounds that are very soothing because of the bass. So would I be, instead, listening to something like that? Even though it doesn't bother me, I don't listen to the words. I just hear the bass.

I've even taken excerpts of bass riffs and guitar riffs and drum riffs out of heavy metal songs where there's no words, but I put them into loops and play them. So is that okay? You've got to be careful how we do this. The issue is, what is your relationship with Christ? Let him work with you. Don't use your freedom as an excuse to sin. But if something is going to hinder your relationship with him, then you need to move away from it. If it does not, then that's something you can participate in, but you've got to be careful. When you go to 1 Corinthians 10, the question is asked, can we eat meat sacrificed to pagan gods? And the answer is, yeah, we can. It's not going to hurt you.

But it's meat specifically sacrificed to pagan gods. And Paul says, yeah, you can do it. You can eat it. It's not going to hurt you. Just don't stumble anybody else.

So now what do we do? Or what if you like the song Zombie from the Cranberries, which I love that song. Well, can I not listen to it? And it's a song against war.

I like that. So you've got to be careful. When people start pronouncing, if you listen to this kind of music, you're in sin. There are certain styles I would tend to lend support with that. If you have Grindcore, where they're talking antichrist and anti-godliness, and they're screaming it and yelling it, that would be wrong. You shouldn't support that, okay?

So you've got to be careful. Well, I like Toby. I don't like raps in general, but I like Toby Mann. Okay.

Toby Mann. I like Led Zeppelin. I'm not a Zeppelin fan, you know, and some other stuff, which I don't want to tell people. But I like reggae, too, and blues. And the only thing I don't like is country western.

It is proof of the fall of mankind. Country western is the proof of the fall, and Chinese opera. Between those two, if someone said, Matt, we want you to give up all your secrets, I'm never going to do it, where we're going to put you in a room and play country western and Chinese opera. I just say, what do you want to know? I'm going to break. It's going to take me less than a minute. What do you want to know? Okay. Yes. There you go. Well, that sure helps, Matt. Oh, I have one more question real quick here.

Sure, no problem. I wonder if you've heard of Dr. Gene Kim. What do you think it means? I think I know who you're talking about, but I can't say for sure. Let me see, because I don't want to say good or bad and it not be the guy I'm thinking of.

So you mean he teaches his pastor, right, a pastor? Yeah, Dr. Gene Kim. Yeah, I'm going to be careful what I say, because I don't recall him specifically, okay? So let's just say that, yeah, all right? I need to do a piece on him.

If you can send me some information on him, some URLs and sermons and things he's said, that would be great. It looks like I'm looking here. Okay, good. Alpha Omega Ministries, James White Ministries, it looks like they've got a little thing they've done on them, so go check it out. Gene Kim, Steven Anderson's whacked. He doesn't have all his paws and a litter box.

So if they're doing Gene Kim with Steven Anderson, maybe there's an issue there. I don't know. Both of them, okay? Okay. All right. All right, brother. Well, God bless. Okay, thanks a lot. All right.

Well, you know, I probably just offended a whole bunch of people with what I said about country western. Oh, man. Oh, man. You know?

Hey, we're just put together differently, that's all. Hey, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. Let's get on to volunteer with Oliver from Maine. Oliver, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Sure. So my question for you is how do I prove the deity of the Holy Spirit? How do I prove that biblically? The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son for one thing, and John 14, 26, and John 15, 26. And what's interesting is that Jesus says that he will send another comforter, and the word another is of the same kind.

So you can go to, for example, John, I think it's John 15, 26, where it says that. Let me see. Let's see.

No, 14, 26. Let's try that. Come on, here we go. Another comforter. I've got to find it. Another. Oh, I can't find it.

Let me go backwards. Another comes. Yeah, I don't know where it is. Maybe someone in the text will put it in.

I'll tell you what it is. But the word in Greek there is another of the same kinds, referencing himself. That would be a support for the deity of the Holy Spirit. But also, when you go to Acts, Chapter 5, it says a man named Ananias, his wife, Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and they held it back, et cetera. And Peter said, why was Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? So what he had done was he had lied about what he had done and said.

And notice what he says here. You've lied to the Holy Spirit. That's Acts 5, 3. And then Verse 4, while it remained unsold, it did not remain your own after it was sold, et cetera, et cetera. And I'll go to Verse 5 because the music is coming on. He says, Ananias fell to the ground and breathed his last and great, oh, I forgot to, I skipped something. Where Peter says in Verse 4, you have not lied to men but to God.

So to lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God. We'll get back after the break. We'll talk some more.

Sorry about that. Hey, three open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. All right. Oliver, are you still there? Yes. All right. So I've got some more stuff for you if you're ready. If I can tell you where to go to get it. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. 2 Corinthians 3.18. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding, as in a mirror, the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3.18.

What I could recommend you do is go to Karn. And on the left-hand side, you'll see a menu. And unless you're on a phone, you go to the Christian Theology section on the left.

And then on the menu that is. And then click on the Doctrine and Theology. And then from there, just scroll down to the section on the Holy Spirit. And you will see all kinds of information about him.

The Holy Spirit, his work, ministry, deity, names, everything. It's right there. You have to write it down really fast. You can go read it and check it out.

Yeah, I'll definitely have to check that out. What you've said so far has been really helpful. I've just recently been struggling.

I believe in the Trinity, but the Holy Spirit aspect has been difficult for me to grasp biblically. So this has been really helpful. Let me help you with something. That's all right.

Let me do the principle, okay? So the Holy Spirit, we don't hear much about him. He is in the Old Testament, and he's in the New Testament. Do you know what the ministry of the Holy Spirit is, besides convicting us of sin?

Okay, this is an important concept. Go ahead. Is it to glorify Christ? Or help us to glorify Christ? Good.

Good. John 15, 26. When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me. The Holy Spirit bears witness of Christ, not of himself. So he is the lesser known, lesser spoken of person on the Godhead.

This is why we don't see as much. But we do see plenty about him. He's called God and Lord and Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of truth, eternal Spirit.

He's eternal, omnipotent, omnipresent, has a will, loves, speaks. Okay, so they're there. And they're listed on the CARM website, the Holy Spirit. Okay. Sweet.

All right. Well, thank you very much. And I'm concerned because I don't want you to forget the Trinity, because the Trinity is the necessary precondition for all intelligibility and actuality and potentiality. So on CARM, there's an article. It deals with an examination of the Trinity in depth.

And so just type in CARM Trinity examination in depth, you'll find it. And I spent five weeks going through the Trinity for about an hour each. On each subcategory of the Trinity, I wrote a 500-word paragraph dealing with the Trinity. I'm probably going to work on something in addition to that, dealing with the nature of the Trinitarian being, because of something very interesting. I want you to understand this.

This is why I'm focusing on this a little bit. This is what Romans 1.20 says. For since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes, eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood through what was. So as I was thinking about that, what does that mean, divine nature? Well, as I was looking and going through stuff and thinking, see if I can find this here.

Here we go. The Trinity, the nature of the Trinity is reflected in the material world, because there's three things in the material world, time, space, and matter. And time is past, present, future.

Space is height, width, depth. Matter is solid, liquid, gas, a trinity of trinities. Then there's a spiritual realm, which is a trinity, God, man, and angels. There's a conceptual realm, knowledge, reason, and ethics.

And we can go on and on as I was looking and realizing that even within these three are sub-threes and main categories, like a knowledge of the material world, spiritual world, universals, and etc. The Trinity is the only way to explain everything. It's the only way to make sense, because everything that exists, all facts, exist in a context. And no fact, nothing that's actual, that's been in our material world, exists independently of a context. This means that everything exists inside of a causal chain. And you can't have an infinite regression of events in a causal chain.

That's another topic. And it goes back to the single being, who is God. And if we look at the nature of God, the Trinitarian being makes the most sense.

And I can get into why. And I do that in that examination of the Trinity. And in my debate with Shabir Ali, a Muslim, I went through the issue of why the Trinity makes the most sense of things. And in my debate with the Muslim metaphysician, I did this also.

He couldn't answer it. And so the Trinity is a necessary precondition. It gets into one of the many universals and particulars and things like that. So I just want to say there's a lot there. Don't give up on it, okay? Yeah. Okay.

You know, I'll check it out. I definitely, I believe in the Trinity. It's just there's doubt that'll sometimes come up in the Deedee, the Holy Spirit.

I nonetheless submit to him being God. But I just want to be able to be more solid on that. So I appreciate your help here. Okay.

It's there on Karm and the verses and stuff. And hopefully it'll be there for you to check out. Okay. Give me a call in a week or two.

Let me know what you think. All right. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Sounds good, buddy. All right. God bless.

Okay. Well, that was Oliver. Next longest waiting is Gabriel from Maryland. Gabriel, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Just listening to what Oliver was saying before I get into my predestination question, I think contributing to his issue may be, as you had mentioned, that the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus, as Jesus glorifies the Father. And so he's really taken a back seat, which may make people think that he's not as much a part of God as he is, you know? Right.

You know, I was talking about that, which the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to bear what is of Christ, Matthew 15, or John 15, 26, which is why you don't hear as much about it. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. And then another thing is that he's kind of the least human-like out of all the persons of God. That's an interesting concept.

The least relatable. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

That's an interesting concept, the least human-like, because we have the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit. That's a good point. Yeah. It's worth focusing on, too. Thanks.

So what do you got, buddy? I think that's a good comment. So what's your, which comment or question? Predestination. Predestination.

I feel like a lot of people conflate it or confuse it with determinism. Right. Or maybe I've just had the habit of doing that myself, and so I want to make sure that I clarify the doctrine. Well, hold on. We've got a break. So hold on. The music's just coming up. Okay. So we'll be right back, okay? Hey, folks.

We'll be right back after these messages and talk about predestination, determinism, and things like that. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show.

Looks like the powers that be at YouTube stopped the podcast here from going out on a regular Matt Slick live YouTube because of medical misinformation. We've probably talked about COVID, how I doubt its efficacy, the vaccines, and there's problems and things like that. Not allowed to have opinions, folks. Not allowed to have opinions. We'll make 1984 fiction again, please. Let's get to Gabriel from Maryland. Okay, Gabriel. You still there? Yep.

Still here. Okay. So what was your question?

What was it? So the difference between predestination and determinism. Determinism means you don't have any will or any issues. It's just basically your puppet. And predestination means that God's will is accomplished, but you're not a puppet, okay? Basically.

Yeah. So when somebody says it has to happen such and such a way for me to come to faith in Christ, even though it might make them feel good to think that way, that's not necessarily true. Well, maybe not. Because God has his way of ordaining things. All things work after the counsel of his will. So it's going up the front of a church to receive Christ, and the Holy Spirit comes upon you. Or you read a Bible verse out of the Bible, and you throw the Bible away, and the verse works on you and gets you saved in two or three days. God ordains the means as well as the ends. So people are saved in different ways, but God, he's the one who opens our heart to understand the scripture.

Luke 24, 45. He grants what he believes. 1 John 1, 29, and grants his repentance, 2 Timothy 2, 25, so these things are right there, but yet at the same time, God draws us, John 6, 44, and we can't come to Christ unless it's granted by the Father, John 6, 65. So it all works out together, but that helps. But there's no necessary chain of causation that drives you to the Lord, like he can step in at any time. Of course there is.

Of course there is. There's always a cause of, there's always a causation, a chain of causes. No event occurs without a connection to a prior event, everything. This is logic, that all things that occur were caused to occur. So if God opens your heart, it's because God caused your heart to open. If someone preaches the gospel, it's because of the previous chain of events brought that to bear.

I would argue then that, I mean, I don't know if this applies or not, but with quantum physics, you have the possibility of something being in two states at the same time, and it's not until it's observed that it takes a final state, that it's not made manifest. So the causation could be multiple. The causation is there. No, no, no. Right.

Everything. But it's not one definite cause. Well, no, no, no, it doesn't say there's one definite cause. It's like when you watch airplane crashes, I watch a series of those, I just think they're interesting.

They're like detective work. Rarely is it one cause, but in quantum physics, you can't say that things happen for no reason. That's just simply illogical. Things happen for a reason, they just don't know all the reasons yet. So you can have states of occurrence that seem to come out of nowhere, but it can't be that nothing is what preceded.

It just means they don't know what is the precession yet. That's all. This is logically necessary. Okay. So if there are no reasons for events, then we can't trust reality to be consistent.

Because it would mean then that a pink elephant with wings could pop into existence because there's no causation and necessity of the cause and the effect. And so that would mean then we can't trust the material world, or the spiritual world, or the world of logic and universals. Okay.

Right. So, at the same time, God is sovereign over all causes, and we are not slaves to the causes because our spirits made in the image of God possess the freedom that we have. But our freedom is not independent of our context or God's guiding hand, and yet we're still free at the same time. This is good biblical theology.

Most people don't accept it though, or a lot of people don't accept it, but that is good biblical theology. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you very much.

You're welcome very much. Okay. All right, well, God bless.

All right. That was Gabriel from Maryland, and now let's get to Nelson from Bakersfield. Nelson, welcome. You're on the air. God bless, Matt. Happy New Year.

You too, man. God bless. God bless.

Yeah, first and foremost, I wanted to just praise, first and foremost, I wanted to praise God for your show, for what God is doing in your life, because by tuning in, and you got me digging into the word of God even more so over the years, and coming to find out, not knowing, by digging into the word of God, like, wow, I'm reformed. And I was like, no, no, no, wait a minute, and there's no way around it, I'm reformed, it's just like, wow. Yep. And then once you give yourself over to the dark side, it's a lot easier.

Life just makes, it's just easier. So there you go. Amen. So my question is, what's your question with this verse, verse 22 of 1 Corinthians 16? If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed. Uh huh. That is, I mean, I was just, as I was looking it up, can you give me an explanation of what Paul was saying there?

Oh sure. If you don't love the Lord, then you're going to be cursed. That's what it means. And so now the follow up question with that is, I'm the only one in my family that is saved.

Okay. And in that verse right there, technically they're cursed because they have not came for the Lord. Yes, that's right.

Exactly correct. And so, I mean, my prayer is basically that the Father may draw them to Christ, as it is in John 6, 36 and 37. And so, yeah, that was just my question about that. So again, thank you for your show and I'll continue praying for you, my brother.

Well, you're welcome, man. And you know, sometimes reading the verses, if anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be anathema, cursed, separated, and yet that is the case. I have family members and they are under the curse of God right now.

And all who die without Christ are under that judgment. And what God often does is put one believer in a family to be that light, to be that witness. And so that's your job, one of your jobs, of course, is to be a loving witness to your family and be praying for them, interceding for them, and speaking to the Lord on their behalf and asking God to save them and open up their hearts and their minds and be merciful to them, just as he was with you, so that they might escape the present curse that they're under and find salvation. That's your job. That's what you've got to do. Amen.

Okay. Thank you, brother. Amen. You're right. Amen.

You're welcome, brother. That's what it is. That's what it is. But that's what it is.

When we pray like that, sometimes for many years. Okay. All right. All right, brother. Real quick. Go ahead. Sure.

It's all right. I was asked this question because many believers, I mean, I even used to pray like this, but when someone dies and they never received Christ, and I've done it before in the past, but more in the scriptures, should we pray that God may have mercy upon that person even though they're in hell? No. It's put it on the dead man that died once, then judgment.

He was 927. So that's it. Once they're dead, you don't waste your time on praying for them. Yeah. Yeah.

The mercy that we get now is now from God. Mm-hmm. That's right.

Okay. That's right. And it's a hard thing that Catholics would disagree.

Catholics would disagree, but that's because they don't trust scripture in that area. Yeah. Yeah. Okay? All right, Matt. Well, thank you very much. You're welcome very much. All right.

Now, we're going to get to Jose in a minute, but we've got to break just any second here. And for those who aren't sure if they're really trusting in the Lord, God grants that you have faith, Philippians 1 29. Read Matthew 7, 7 through 11. God, he never fakes you out. If you ask for a fish, he won't give you a snake. He gives you what you ask.

And if you ask of him, he will give it to you, and you're trusting him. Let's get to, oh, Jose. And there's the music. I was just a little bit off on my time. All right, Jose. Hold on. We'll be right back.

And we have four open lines. 8772072276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 8772072276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody welcome back to the show.

We have three open lines. 8772072276. Let's get on the air with Jose from Los Angeles. Welcome buddy.

You're on. Hello. Hello.

Jose. Are you there? We'll give another few seconds here, and if not, we'll go to Tommy from Utah. So I don't hear anything.

All right. Let's go to Tommy from Utah. Tommy, welcome. You're on the air. Hello, Matt. How are you doing? Doing all right. Can you hear me? What do you got, buddy?

Yeah, I hear you fine. Well, it's not really a question, I just wanted to discuss Jeremiah 1-5, because a few weeks ago, I was witnessing to Will Borman, at the first talk, he says, well, you know we're Christians too, and I didn't flat out disagree with him, but I tried to show him that he was wrong. I showed him that Christ is and always was God, from the inception that he is the Alpha and Omega, and is the only one ever, and he's the only one that has ever been, that had a pre-existence before walking the earth. He refuted it with that.

I guess I'm really annoyed that I just didn't flat out tell him, no, you're wrong. But that's really the whole context of why I want to talk to you about this. So you want to know what? I mean, I know what you mean.

Go ahead. So it's the issue of Jeremiah 1-5, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so before you were in the womb, I knew you, and Mormons ripped it out of context and say that it means it had pre-existence. To be known by God means to be saved, that it's in a saving relationship. Jesus says in Matthew 7-22-23, you know, he talks about many who say they do good works, but Jesus says, get away from me, I never knew you. And Galatians 4-9, you did not know God, you served by nature those which are not God's, but now that you've come to know God, or rather are known by him. Oh, I love that verse. In John 10-27-28, my sheep hear my voice, I know them, and I give eternal life to them.

So the phraseology is a theologically precise, or it's a theologically significant, I should say, phrase, to be known by God means it's a saving thing, and this is a doctrine for predestination and election in Jeremiah 1-5, not pre-existence. Furthermore, if you go to 1 Corinthians 15-46, it says the spiritual is not first, but the natural, then the spiritual. So, okay. Yeah, yeah, I can say I understood all that, but I truly, it's been bugging me for like three weeks why I didn't refute it the way I should have, and I just felt like I dropped the ball doing this. Okay. Yeah, that's my, I witness to everyone every day, everywhere I go, so I just have felt like I literally just dropped the ball for, yeah.

Well, okay, then in that case, welcome to the club. But I also know that I did say things, here's the thing, when I witness to people, I always walk away going, wow, I should have said this, I should have said that, but I know better because I know God's had me say exactly what he wanted me to say to them at the time that they could take what I could give them. And so, the only thing I really can fall back on at this point is that, yes, is, did I lose you? The only thing you can fall back on, what's that, no, we lost you, the only thing you can fall back on is, and then it went blank, I didn't hear you.

Oh, oh, sorry, I drive for a living, and so my signal isn't great. So I hit him with, the only thing that really made him question anything I said, which I know is what I was supposed to tell him, is that in Galatians 5, 4, essentially it says, if you add any work to the grace of God, you're not saved, and that did stump him. Well, good, because all false religions teach that you and your goodness are somehow able to merit forgiveness and stuff with God, all false religions teach that, that's because they have a false view of God, because they think that the God that they believe in is such that he lowers his standard and it's up to our goodness to make the difference up, and that's just a false God. The true God is infinite, and there is no possible way that we could ever add anything, and so he does everything, that's why Jesus is God in flesh, second person of the trinity, and that's, you know, that's just it, that's biblical theology, and people who reject that will go to hell, and those who affirm it do so because they're regenerate and they're saved.

Yeah, well anyway, I just wanted to, I'm glad that you gave me those other scriptures, when I get home I'll have to go back to the website and write those down and look and do some more study on those, but still, like I say, I knew that whatever he was referencing was totally erroneous and ripped so far out of context that, and here's to me, this is what I see in that verse, is that he is making his God so much smaller than God truly is, because that comes back to the whole point of our predestination. That's what cults do, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, everybody redefines God, and usually it's after some form of their own image, and that's what happens. So in Mormonism, God's an exalted man from another planet. In Jehovah's Witnesses, God is a single person, and Jesus is a created thing, and that you cooperate with God in order to maintain your forgiveness of sins. And then in Islam, the same thing, the same thing as Jehovah's Witnesses. I actually told some Muslims that, I said, your God is the same one as the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Christadelphians, and they didn't know what to say about that.

So yeah, you think your God's so unique, he's not, he's just like the J-dubs and the, anyway. So yeah, whenever you have a false God, you're going to have a false Christ and false gospel, and people are going to be damned because they've rejected the true and living God and replaced him with something false, made in the image of corruptible man. Hence Mormonism, perfect example.

God's an exalted man from another planet. They exchange the glory of God for the image of corruptible man. That's exactly what Mormonism does. I hope all the Mormons in Salt Lake City are listening to this and you realize that judgment of God is upon you right now. If you believe that God is an exalted man and you become a God, you are under the condemnation of God because you have violated scripture and you have adopted idolatry. Because what the Bible says is that you are not to serve any false gods. And what it says in Romans 1, 22 and 23, professing to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for the image in the form of corruptible man. That's exactly what Mormonism does.

Anyway, they need repentance as a false God of Mormonism. All right, Tommy, we've got other people waiting, so all right, buddy, thanks a lot. Appreciate how you do. God bless you, sir.

God bless you, too. All right, let's get to Gary from Utah. Gary, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

It's me again. How are you? Good. All right. Hanging in there.

So what do you got? All right. You know, I've called you a few times before and yeah, I'm in Utah, but I don't connect with those other people that are Mormon. I'm born in Christian, of course.

All right. So in the last few minutes you got here, and I'm watching the time as well, I was going to ask you, well, I run into some of these people on YouTubers, you know, you've got to be careful who you listen to. They're supposed to be preaching the word of God. And I'd listen to some of these, and some of these people are saying that they don't believe that, you know, once you get saved and, you know, their nature, old nature changes, you become a new creature, they don't believe that we still fight our old, filthy nature every day. And that's why we need Christ to continue to fight that. How do you deal with those people when they think, oh, no, I don't have an old, filthy nature no more. I don't sin anymore.

That kind of stuff. That's what I'm saying. So I, when people say they don't sin anymore, I say, okay, let me ask you some questions if that's okay. Okay. Okay.

No problem. Is Jesus the standard of perfection in keeping the law? Yes.

Are you keeping the law on the same level as Jesus? Those are my questions. I've had a few of them say... That's cool. Yeah. I've had a few say yes. I say, okay. So you said yes. So you, you are keeping the law on the same level as God in flesh who not only did what was right, but thought what was right. And in the intention of his heart perfectly, he did what was right. And you're saying you do the same thing as Jesus. If they say that they're arrogant and they're foolish, they're prideful.

If they say no, well then you're not sinless, are you? So either way... Right. They lose.

Either way they lose. Okay. Right. Because that's definitely a false, a false gospel because those are some of those same people like, well, not necessarily those people, but I've also dealt with other people who when we deal with atheists or others who say, I'll call them a Bible prophecy, right? That God said, this is going to happen. And all of a sudden it happened and it was predicted 2,500 years ago. And then these arrogant people would say, well, I could have told you that. And I say, well, actually, no, you couldn't have, because without knowledge, which God gives you that knowledge and God says his ways and his thoughts are higher than ours.

So without God giving you that knowledge, there's no way you're going to know that because you're not on the same level with God. It's hilarious. These people crack me up. Yeah.

It's a form of arrogance. Yeah. I've actually met and, uh, yeah, I don't sin anymore.

I haven't sinned for years. Yeah, exactly. How stupid can you be? You know? Uh, yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's pretty bad.

It's pretty bad. I know I've met people like that and their arrogance, man, it's just incredible to keep the law and you, you love God and love your neighbor on the same level as God in flesh with holy perfection, right? In every instance, in every thought and every intention of your heart, right, what are they going to say?

They say, yes, you say, look, I need to know where you are because I don't want to get zapped by the lightning bolt that comes out of heaven when you boast equality with Jesus. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

And one last thing, cause I know your time's getting short. I would love to see another debate come out with you, but I'd love to see you debate one of these people that are hardcore Catholic that think that the Catholic, that the Bible came from, you know, from, from Catholicism or that Christ cause all of them came from Christ and I was like, no, we have a Jewish Bible. He's a Jewish carpenter.

He's the King of Kings. You know, I'd love to see that debate. Yeah. Yeah. So I need to do some more stuff with Catholicism. I'm going to be very busy this year. I'm, there's, uh, I'm supposed to go to Israel in about five or six weeks. And then about four or five weeks after that, I'm going to Japan and then there's a possibility of going to, uh, to England and or Scotland. That's actually the works.

It's very, very early stages. I got to go to Southern California and, uh, I may be there for a week. Um, so, and I do that in late July and I get to meet people already. People want me to, to, uh, to do stuff with them.

You know, can our church come to this, do this, we'll do videos. You're all planned out ahead of time. So you're almost all year or at least a good portion of it. Yeah.

Good portion of it. And then my wife has the rest of it, the honeydew list. So you know, I've got to put it in schedule. Well I pray for your safety on those things and uh, yeah, just keep up the good fight.

You know, they always say fight the good fight. So, um, I don't know what you have going on, but you probably have a lot of things going on. Too many things to mention, not enough time.

Yeah. It's like my saying so much heresy, so little time and I have too much to do. And now that I'm 66, the fact is I'm, I'm slowing down and I do admit it, but it's just a fact.

I don't have that ability to concentrate like I used to and, and the energy level isn't as much. So I have to push through a lot of stuff to continue to work even at 66. I hope to keep going. Thank you, man.

We'll see. All right, buddy. There's the music. Got to go. All right, Gary. Okay. We'll see you next time on truth network.