Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, we have five open lines wide open.

All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Today is T-Shirt Tuesday. One of our guys, Charlie, is developing T-shirts. Another person, Laura, is doing design on these T-shirts.

They are people who work with us at CARM. We are going to be having some T-shirts going here pretty soon. I plan to be working on some new intros for the radio show. People say that they enjoy them, the ones we had before. I hope you will enjoy those.

Maybe you can put them on again. Let's see, what else? We have nobody waiting right now, so you can give me a call. If you want to watch the show, watch me sitting here. All you have to do is go to the CARM.org website, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. On the home page on the right-hand side, you will see the link. Yeah, it's a link. It's a big box and things like that. You can check it out in order to watch me sit here in the office.

Now, that's not what's so great. But what is great is the people that are in the chat area. Friendships have been made because people are regulars and they come in.

Yes, there are some obstreperous twits that sometimes come in and act like little children who want to go, and then they don't like what I say and do, and so they try and be juvenile, puerile, immature, and the contrary to being obsequious. So if all that sounds good, because I'm a sesquevidilian and maybe you're entertained, I don't know, but you can give me a call. 877-207-2276.

Jeff says he's a twit. That reminds me. Maybe what I'll do, a little bit of entertainment value, is to read through what we have on CARM called the slictionary.

I think I'm going to do that, at least you can find this. Let's see, where is the slictionary? It's terms that I've come up with over the years, and we call it the slictionary. So maybe I'll go through some of the definitions that we've got there.

Yeah, and so here's some of the stuff, okay? To blurify, to use big words and citations of various philosophical views in rapid succession for a long period in lieu of a direct answer so as to confuse the listeners and make things unclear. That's to blurify. You know, when I listen to the politicians talk, and here's the thing, I would love to question some of the politicians on certain issues because I wouldn't let them get away with what they get.

They blurify things, you know? You ask them a question, they answer something else, and then the questioner goes on to something else. No, no, no. Me, I'd say, what are you going to do about ABC? And then they give an answer that doesn't answer it. I'd say, okay, let me ask you another question. What are you going to do about ABC?

I'd do the same question over and over, and I'd tell them, I'm going to ask you the same question until you give me an answer for it. I mean, they need to have their feet held to the fire. I really believe in that.

I do. I don't think we should give them quarter. So, chickenoutism, the practice of avoiding serious confrontation in order to substantiate an assertion, usually done by attacking the person or changing the topic. So, actually there's this thing that popped up on my screen, my computer, where people are having discussions, and Muslims are going in and talking about how great the Qur'an is. So what I did was I jumped right in, and I quoted Surah 482, which says if there's any discrepancy in the Qur'an, then the Qur'an is not from Allah. And then I showed them in Surah 86, 5 through 7, where a man's seed is produced out of his chest, out of his chest, according to the Qur'an. And I go in there and I say, see, look, according to the Qur'an, if there's a discrepancy, it's not true, not from Allah. There's a discrepancy, therefore it's not true. And the first thing the guy did was attack the Bible. And it was the same thing.

It was chickenoutism. You're not facing the issue. And I called him on it. I said, you're not facing the issue. You raise this issue up, and you're just avoiding it, and you go on to attack. I said, now come on, now. Come on.

Anyway, here's another one. Denialation. To deny, you know, denialation. The state of willing ignorance in the face of truth and not considering another view in an attempt to destroy the other person's view.

Also the constant ignoring of something that doesn't agree with your opinion, hoping it will all go away. Densification. The practice of failing to think clearly due to increased cerebral confusion while attempting to put down what you really don't understand. Densification. Diaperinian.

I use this one every now and then. A person who is overly childish in behavior and action when confronted with truth and logic and throws crud at you instead of dealing with the issues like an adult. Then we have things like dodgeification and the repeated practice of using useless statements in an attempt to avoid challenge made against an assertion. Here's an interesting word. This is a made-up word, of course. Festiculating. Fasticulating. To speak quickly while explaining a position and saying nothing. Fasticulating. But there's actually some interesting words.

To fenestrate is to furnish with windows. And to festinate is to, fascination is the involuntary inclination to walk quickly. And so I love those words. You know, I like big words. Like scintillate and obfuscate, cogitate, osculate. So anyway, flabbergastrio, irritate. To say something that flabbergasts something while also irritating them.

A lot of fun, a lot of fun. Harissify. To distort the truth so much it becomes a false teaching. Anyway, I'll do one more. Look under the collar.

To rambleify the practice of speaking about nothing, switching topics and not focusing in order to sound competent while really not saying anything. So these are all part of the selection area. You can go to karm.org and read them and a lot of other ones. We have a whole bunch of, believe it or not, we've done like, I don't know how many light bulb jokes, you know. Like how many atheists does it take to change a light bulb? Zero.

They like the darkness. And how many Calvinists does it take to change a light bulb? None.

It was predestined to be burned out. How many Catholics does it take to change a light bulb? We don't know.

You've got to ask Mary to do it. All these, and my favorite though, is how many surrealist painters. Now surrealism is when you take something and you paint it or you make it so it's not really real anymore but it has resemblance of actuality, surrealism and some type of painting. So how many surrealist painters does it take to change a light bulb?

A fish. I love that one. All right. We have 4 Open Lines if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Colton from Idaho. Hey, Colton, welcome.

You're on the air. How's it going, Matt? It's going, man.

It's going. What do you got, buddy? So I was recently doing some evangelism and I got a question that kind of stumped me and I was hoping you could help me out. So the question was, you know, Jesus being the substitution for us, for our sins, and the fellow I was talking to, he asked me, he said, so if Jesus came down, lived a perfect life, and then died and then three days later rose from the dead, what exactly did he lose? And I told him, you know, he limited himself.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You have to ask him. What does he mean, what did he lose?

What's that? What does he mean by that? If you haven't clarified what he means by something, you shouldn't respond. Don't assume.

Don't assume. Oh, he lost something. Oh, that means what does he mean by lose something? Don't get it. So that's the first thing I'd do.

I'd say, what do you mean lose? Okay. That's one thing. Yeah. Always. That's the definitions. Always.

That's right. Always define terms. I keep telling people this.

It's going to take a kabillion years for me to tell people, and then they learn it. Always define your terms. Ask people to define what they mean by something. Don't assume you understand what they're saying.

And you may hear me on the radio. Someone asks a question, and I might say, well, what do you mean by such and such? Because I want clarification. That's all. Okay.

But anyway, go ahead. Yeah. Well, that makes total sense.

I just sometimes in the moment, you know, kind of forget and lose it. But the big question he posed to me was, so of all the sins that we've committed, that three days took care of that? No.

Of all our eternity? No. Nope. Not at all. Okay.

So. And I just didn't know how to answer that question. Because I'm pretty new at doing the whole apologetics thing.

That's okay. And it's a wrong question, because it demonstrates the person doesn't understand the issues of the atoning sacrifice. It's not three days in the grave that paid for anything. It was the death of Christ on the cross. That's the issue.

So, if someone were, like what you're saying this guy said, the three days, if I understood you correctly, he'll pay for this or that. No, it's not true. Now, there are some false teachers within Christianity who teach that when Jesus, before his death and resurrection, went to Hades, suffered there and finished the atonement there, that is damnable heresy. And all who teach that cannot be considered Christians, like Joyce Meyer who teaches it, Kenneth Copeland who teaches it.

We cannot call them Christians. This is serious stuff. All right. So. Okay. Go ahead. Keep going.

Well, and that's the other thing I was saying. Trying to. Trying to.

Are you there? Did we lose you? Oh, I'm sorry. We lost you. Okay. I think we lost you just for a few seconds there.

Go ahead. Yeah. I was trying to say, yeah, there's.

There's. We're losing you. You sit there. Oh, here. Let me go. Can you. Okay.

Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah.

Go ahead. I was saying to him it was finished on the cross. That's what Jesus said. It was finished. Good. Mm-hmm.

The debt has been paid. Mm-hmm. And if it was just on the cross, then what's the necessity for dying and then staying dead for three days? And that said it was because of the resurrection to prove that he has power over death.

Yeah. Just as Noah was in the belly of the fish for three days, so the Son of Man will be in the belly of the earth for three days. After three days, you can't say it was just a lucky thing. He was out for a couple of hours and then resuscitated.

He was dead. And three days is about the limit before the body starts decaying really bad. And so in Psalm 16, you'd not let his Holy One to undergo decay. It's prophetic.

And so that's that reason why the three days. Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate it. Sure. Thanks for answering my questions. You've been a real help for sure.

Sure. Now, what I would recommend you do if you're going to get into apologetics at all is first thing is learn your theology. You need to know it. You need to be able to articulate from memory and understand how the concepts relate. But you need to know justification, imputation, propitiation, election, predestination, resurrection. You need to learn these and be able to articulate what they are and how they are interrelated. You need to understand, excuse me, that Jesus fulfilled covenant requirements at his baptism.

These are some of the things you need to understand and what covenant does. Okay. All right, buddy. All right, Colton. Okay. God bless. Hey, folks.

Five open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Now we have five open lines. Give me a call.

877-207-2276. And you know, I mentioned something very serious here. And maybe a lot of you were a little bit shocked to hear that I was condemning Joyce Meyer. And I flat out publicly do.

She is not a qualified preacher teacher of the word. And I'm going to explain why. All right. I'm going to explain why. So I'm going to try something here. I've got some recordings. Let's see if they can work.

Not ought to read them. Yeah, there we go. So what I'm going to do is try and play these over the radio. And there's different ways of doing things.

I'm going to play this. Now, check this out. This is where she said Jesus stopped being the Son of God. Where he said, I will send my spirit into your hands.

At that point, he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin. He was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.

All right. Now, that is heresy to say he was no longer the Son of God. This is an example of her inability to understand basic Christian theology. Now, to say that he stopped being the Son of God is to say that he was no longer God the Son, because that's what the term means. In John 5, 18, John the Apostle makes the comment that he was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. That's what the phrase means when it comes to Christ. So she is attacking his deity.

She is making some incredibly bad statements here. Now, here, check this one out. Do you know something? The minute that blood sacrifice was accepted, Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again. That was sealed. I mean, it happened when he was in heaven. Do you know?

All right. Now, Jesus was the first person to ever be born again. To be born again is something that we need to go through in order to become children of God. We are born again because we're sinners.

So now she has stated that Jesus stopped being the Son of God and that Jesus was the first one born again. These are called heresies. All right? Heresies. Now, here, let me just play another one.

And then I've got something that I don't have audio for. They're just quotes out of her book. Here, listen to this. You know, I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this, and I think this kind of gets the point across. He said, you know, why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His man, not His whole creation, but His man, little gods? If He's God, what's He going to call them but the God kind? I mean, if you as a human being have a baby, you call it a humankind.

If cattle has another cattle, they call it cattle kind. I mean, what's God supposed to call us? Doesn't the Bible say we're created in His image? So this is an example of incredibly bad logic and bad exegesis to say that we can be called little gods because this is what she said. I was listening to a set of tapes by one man and he explained it like this.

This kind of gets the point across. He said, you know, why do people have such a fit about God calling His creation, His creation, His man, not His whole man, but His man, little gods? You see, you've got to understand something. When people don't stick with the Word of God, they generally judge the Word and they exalt themselves. Now, if Joyce Meyer were to repent of her false teachings, okay. I've not heard of her repenting of her false teachings. And people I show this to people, they're stymied.

So let me ask you guys a question. Are you sinners? Are you a sinner? I'm a sinner and I'm saved and yet I'm still a sinner. I still struggle with my sin. It doesn't mean it's okay to sin, but the fact is that this is what our condition is.

Check this out. I am not poor, I am not miserable, and I am not a sinner that is alive from the pit of hell. That is what I were, and if I still was, then Jesus died in vain.

I'm going to tell you something, folks. I didn't stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head. I wasn't a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks about heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I'm righteous, and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.

She couldn't argue her way out of a wet paper heresy. To say that she's not a sinner is self-deception, because the standard of righteousness is God Himself, and in the person of Christ it's Jesus. To say, when anyone comes to me and says they don't sin anymore, I say, so you keep the law of God perfectly. I've had people say yes, because that's what it means to not be a sinner. And I say, so Jesus is the standard of keeping that law, right? Yes, that's right. Are you keeping the law on the same level as Jesus?

I've had a few say yes. You can see the arrogance, because that is obviously sinful. But this is what she's saying. And then she says that the Bible says I'm righteous, and I can't be righteous and be a sinner at the same time.

Well, yes, you can. Righteousness is an imputation. To impute means to account to another's account legally. We have the sin that we have imputed to Christ, and He took it away at the cross. He canceled our sin debt at the cross, Colossians 2.14. But we are declared righteous by faith, where the righteousness of God is reckoned to us by faith, Philippians 3.9. Romans 5.1. This occurs to those of us who still have sinned. Paul the Apostle in Romans 7, 18 through 25, talked about the struggle that he had as a man, the things he did not want to do, he did.

And the things he did not, or he wanted to do, he did not. And he said, who will deliver me from this body of death? Now, the phrase body of death is really interesting, because what he's talking about here is one of the means by which the Romans would execute people, this crucifixion, beheading, running you through with a sword or a spear, or putting you in a jail cell with a corpse and chaining the corpse to you. And then you and that corpse stay in the jail cell until the decay of the corpse moved upon your body, and it killed you.

Who will deliver me from this body of death? This is what Paul's talking about. He's talking about himself. Yet Joyce Meyer says she doesn't even sin anymore.

Wow, that's so impressive. Here, listen to this heresy. The devil thought he had it. The devil thought he'd won. Oh, they were having the biggest party they'd ever been had. They had my Jesus in the floor, and they were standing on his back, jumping up and down, laughing, and he had become sin.

Don't you think that God was pacing, wanting to put a stop to what was going on? All the hosts of hell were up on him. Up on him. Up on him. The angels are in agony.

All the creation is groaning. All the hosts of hell were up on him. Up on him. They got on him. They got him down in the floor and got on him.

And they were laughing and mocking. Ah ha ha ha ha. You trusted God, and look where you ended up. The devil thought he'd saved you and hit you off that cross.

He didn't. Ha ha ha. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show for Open Lines 877-207-2276. I'm going to replay the last one I did from Joyce Meyer because the commercial came on. I'm glad to hear this. I'm going to talk about this a little bit.

It's worth getting into. So here we go. This is the host of hell literally on Jesus, and we're laughing. Okay, well that was supposed to work.

I'm not sure what's going on, why it didn't work. There we go. Okay, here we go. The devil thought he'd won. Oh, they were having the biggest party that's ever been had. They had my Jesus in the floor, and they were standing on his back jumping up and down laughing, and he had become sin.

Don't you think that God was pacing, wanting to put a stop to what was going on? All the hosts of hell were up on him. Up on him. Up on him. The angels are in agony.

All the creation is groaning. All the host of hell was up on him. Up on him. They got on him. They got him down in the floor and got on him.

And they were laughing and mocking. Ah ha ha ha ha. You trusted God, and look where you ended up. You thought he'd save you and get you off that cross.

He didn't. Ha ha ha. All right, now here's the thing. Where does she get off saying this? Where does she get this? There's nothing in Scripture that says this, and yet she teaches it as though it's the truth. So she supposedly is getting revelation knowledge from God himself telling us and informing us what actually went on in hell and that Jesus was there being tortured by the demonic forces. This is blasphemy. And the anger that I have in my heart for this kind of filth is not becoming someone who wants to speak politely on the radio because I can't find the words to describe what I really want to say about this blasphemous stuff because that's what it is.

I cannot and will not call her a Christian, not for the heresies. And I'm going to read you in a little bit. I'm going to play one more, and I'm going to read you something, and then we'll get to the callers. Okay, hold on. Here we go. Okay, that one didn't quite work. Okay, let's try it one more time. Let's see if I can get this to work right.

Hurry, please bear with me. Not really. That's why you've got to get it by revelation. There are no words to explain what I'm telling you. I've got to just trust God that he's putting it into your spirit like he put it into mine. So now she's getting revelation knowledge from God. Is this how she explains these heresies and these false teachings that come into Scripture? Okay, what I'm going to do now is just read you a couple of things, and I'll read you, let's see.

Yeah, I'm going to read you a couple of things that she has said in her book, The Most Important Decision You'll Ever Make by Joyce Meyer, second printing, May 1993, page 35. Quote, he became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead.

He was in the grave three days. During that time, he entered hell where you and I deserve to go because of our sin. He paid the price there.

Close quote. Now, you see the problem with this is that, no, Jesus paid the price of our redemption on the cross. Colossians 2.14 says he canceled the certificate of debt on the cross.

Jesus said on the cross, it is finished, John 1930. But no, she says she went to hell and finished it there. She's denying the atoning sacrifice of Christ. She denies the atoning sacrifice of Christ and its efficiency on the cross.

She denies it. Now, she said in the same book, page 36, the first one I read was in page 35. This is the next page. Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. Then, as God had promised, on the third day, Jesus rose from the dead. The scene in the spirit realm went something like this. God rose up from his throne and said to the demon powers tormenting the sinless son of God, let him go. Now, I'm going to stop here for a sec. Nothing in scripture says this.

She's speaking blasphemy. Let's continue on. Then the resurrection power of almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus. On earth, his grave where they had buried him was filled with light and the power of God filled his body. He was resurrected from the dead, the firstborn man.

All right. So that's what she says, page 36. And then, on page 37, listen to this blasphemy. Quote, his spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go.

There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth, close quote. She has now condemned all people to hell who don't believe the false teaching that she is uttering, that Jesus finished the atonement in hell. Now, folks, she's a false teacher. You cannot call her a Christian.

Okay? That's Joyce Meyer. That's what she has said. Now, if she's come to the place where she has repented, I'd love to see documentation of that repentance and praise God that that's the case.

But someone's got to speak out and speak the truth. I'd be glad to have an interview with her and ask her doctrinal questions. In fact, we actually tried to contact her ministry and said, would you be willing to answer some questions on theology? Let's just say that wasn't received positively. It was politely rejected. All right.

All right. Let's get on the phones with Ray from North Carolina. Ray, welcome. You're on the air. Hello? Yes, you're on the air. Go ahead.

Yeah. You're on the air. You're on the air. Man, how you doing? I'm doing fine.

I'm doing fine. Oh, I didn't know who that was. You called me and then you said, who was it? Oh, you know that's blasphemy. I mean, you got that right. You would think with her experience, and you can explain it a little more, but you would think with her experience in the ecumenical law, in the church and religion that she's been in, that she would know better to say things like that.

Yeah, you'd think so. There's no redemption in the hell. This was done on the cross. Second Corinthians. Second Corinthians 2.14.

I mean, there's a lot of scriptures here. We weren't in the hell. Yeah, uh-huh. Oh, man. It's denying us, right?

I ran in the kitchen. Well, here's something else. Here's something else to think about, alright? The men of God. I'm going to read you something out of Titus, okay? This is Titus 1, and this is important. He says in verse 5, I left you in Crete to set elders in place. If any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children to believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion, the overseer must be above reproach, et cetera, not addicted to wine, not... hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, self... holding fast to the faithful word. And he's supposed to be able to exhort unsound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

That's Titus 1.9. Well, here's a question. Now, since the elders are supposed to be men, men are supposed to be the ones who step in and do this. Why is it the men around here don't step up and be men and act like godly Christian men and tell her, this is wrong, you should be stopping this. But what's wrong with the men around here that they don't step up and correct her heresy?

What are the failures with these men as well? You know, that's my last call to you, was that these women preaching and being pastors and elders. You know, we talked about that. And they shrugged me.

Yeah. I ain't heard nothing from my church in three weeks. They done shrugged me. Why? Because I hit a nerve. I hit a nerve. Yeah, this does cause a lot of unhappiness.

I'll just use that word among those people. You know, it's just sad. I mean, we got a church of maybe 130, but we don't have men who are dedicated to the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They don't stay up 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning reading the word and studying and meditating with God. And they don't reach out for the things that God would have them to do.

So we got three times to match. And it bothers me. You know, I do all I can, you know. And I try to speak to the Lord.

And I'm a single man. I'll be 70 this Monday. 70? Wow, OK. 70, yeah. That means you got a lot of experience.

Wow. Yeah, man, I have. I really have. And my sister's in the middle. And I've seen the father in the situation that she's been in all these years. I was with her 20 years. I could not convince her. Matt, you ever tried to convince some woman that she's not supposed to be? Yes, I have tried.

It's harder than reeling in a whale on a 2-pound test fishing line. You did not have to tell me. That's right. But I've got to keep it. Yeah, I've got to keep it. Well, I know someone else can get on. What time do you get on?

In 15 minutes. And there's a break. You got to go, brother, OK?

So God bless. Thanks for calling. Hey, folks, we have two open lines. Give me a call.

877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the last segment of the show. Let's get on the air with DJ from Ohio.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. I have a question in regards to women preaching. This is pretty absent, simply because we're talking about it now. I just left my church because of the church kind of going left and having women preach. And the one thing that my pastor, when we were talking, he said there was a distinction between women preaching, which is what he called Little T teaching, versus them being elders and preaching authoritatively. Now, for me, that didn't make sense. It doesn't seem biblical.

So can you flesh that out? Are all elders the only people that are allowed to teach, or is this other forms of teaching permissible? Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man but to remain silent for Adam was first created. And then in 1 Timothy 5.17, it says that the elders are to receive double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So a preacher is here, at the very least, also an elder. So when a man gets up, like I'm going to be preaching in a couple of weeks, and I take it very seriously. And when I preach at this church in Provo, Church on the Hill, I think it is, or City on the Hill is the name of the church.

They're in Provo, Utah on the first Sunday of October. But at any rate, I have to come on out and say hi. So when I preach, I take it very seriously because I'm getting into the pulpit. I'm getting into the place where the preaching of the word of God is the word of God. When I'm down there sitting, I'm waiting, and I'm repenting, and I'm confessing while they're singing because I'm going to get up in there and do this job.

So I take it seriously. And so in one sense, I don't like preaching because I've got to go through this whole process. On the other hand, I love preaching because I love preaching. Okay, when a woman gets up there, she is in, by the fact of preaching, she is in a place of spiritual authority over the people in the church and men included because it's a sermon, an authoritative proclamation of the word in an authoritative official gathering of the body of Christ. So for the pastor to say small p preaching on Sunday is ludicrous.

It is ridiculous. And if he's going to speak like that and think like that, if I were interviewing him, I'm thinking about attending your church, let's talk about this, and he said that, I'd say, well, you know what, right then and there, I'm just going to tell him flat out, I cannot attend this church because I cannot trust you to represent the word of God properly. And I'm going to let people know that you're not a trustworthy exegete of scripture and that people should avoid you because you are not standing up for the truth and you're resting the scriptures apart from what the truth of God says and I want nothing to do with this church.

And then say, nice talking to you. I mean, I'll say stuff like that because I think men need to hear it instead of this mamby-pamby crap that's being taught. So anyway, that's my opinion. I take it very seriously. The pulpit's a very serious thing and he's wrong for what he said, as you represented.

Okay? Yeah, that's the thing that I'm realizing. I think he's influenced by like N.T. Wright, kind of more liberal scholars, and I've kind of seen him go down that direction and I'm like, I'm reformed myself. So I'm like, the word is the final authority. Paul makes it abundantly clear that men and women have differing roles.

They're equal in essence, but they have different roles and to confuse the roles is to completely deconstruct the way that God designed men and women to relate and to work out his plan. And so, yeah, I'm glad that I'm leaving because I feel like I was almost contributing passively by being there. That's right.

You are. In fact, if you go to CARM and you look up women in ministry and then you go down, you'll find a track or a document that you can print up. It's both sides, eight and a half by 11, and you can print up 100 of them and pass them out at the church on the way out. That's incredible. Oh, I've done this kind of stuff. I've stood up in front of Mormon churches and done this. I've stood out in front of Christian churches. I've been at one Christian church.

I was passing out literature here in Meridian, Idaho, and I called them up and I specifically asked if we could talk about the issue with their women elders. They said, yes, we'll meet. Then later they went back on their word, and I went there and I said, you just went back on your word.

You know, you're not going to meet me. And I said, you know, I'm going to go to the body of Christ. Oh, you're threatening us?

It was dumbfounding that they broke their word. And then when I said, now, biblically, I have to go to the body of Christ. I've gone to you. And then they interpret it as a threat. And so instead of saying, look, we understand what you're trying to do biblically.

Let's sit down and we'll talk. That's what they should have done. And so I went out the next week, whatever it was. I passed out literature in front of the church. They called the cops on me, Christian church. And then on the way home, I stopped by another church.

This is the truth. I stopped by another church and it was close to my house. And I'd contacted them about women pastors and elders. I didn't hear anything back.

I emailed them. I went in and was in the church, just happened to get there right as the service was ending. And I ended up talking to some people.

I'm going to talk to the pastor about the elders thing. Literally I was surrounded. I was up against a wall and hostile congregation members were there as the pastor is not yelling at me, but he is angry with what I'm saying. And people are surrounding me and I felt threatened. And I looked at the exit and I'm thinking, how do I get out of here?

And I was taking martial arts at the time, Krav Maga, Israeli style of martial arts. And I'm thinking, what do I do? What do I do? And finally he says, get out, get out. And I go outside the church. I'm like, whew, I'm outside. And this guy starts yelling at me. The pastor is out there saying, you need to leave, you need to leave.

This is ridiculous. I started backing up, okay, I'm backing up. And Krav Maga is a way to move backwards with her hands up.

I hadn't quite done that yet. But it's not an aggressive position. Your hands are up like your fingers are exposed. I don't want any trouble, I'm leaving. And so I'm walking out. This guy comes up and he starts yelling at me. And then he said something and he came at me, literally the kind of a movement where it's a threat. You know how a man can move against another man, you lunge forward.

You know what that is. And he did that to me. And I put my hands up. And I'm like 10 feet away from him. And he yelled out. He shoved me.

He lied right there. The pastor was outside, turned around and yelled out, did you shove him? The congregation people are now staring at me.

This is serious. And I'm like, I could get ambushed right here. I could get beat up by a bunch of Christians. So I yelled back, I said, no, he lied. And I said, he lied, you got to call him out of lying. And he goes, we're calling the cops on you. Get out of here.

I'm like, this is insane. This is the Christian churches. At Mormon churches, I've stood out.

It's mormonismchristian.com. I've had eggs thrown at me. I've been assaulted. I've been threatened with arrest. Oh, yeah.

You don't mess with people. Oh, yeah. I think that's just the testimony of the truth.

I think that kind of. So, well, all right, man, I appreciate it. That helps out a lot.

Yeah. Print up that thing and take it to the congregation. Pass it out on the sidewalk. You'll have it's legal.

You can't block pedestrian traffic or you can't block vehicular traffic, but you can pass out literature to the cars going into the church, going out of the church, and you can print up the thing about women pastors and elders. And you can say, here you go. And it will cause a ruckus. Not that that's the thing, but me.

That's the kind of thing I would do. That's just me. Now, if you're smarter than me, maybe you won't. Okay. I don't know. It's tempting. Yeah. All right, man. I appreciate it. All right, man. God bless. Okay.

Yep. Hey, Mark from New York. You're welcome. You're on the air, buddy. All right, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What do you got? I was calling. So my question is that we know as Christians that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. And we know this because, well, we listen or we look at what he says or documentation of what he says and test it against scripture. And one thing that he's gone against the church is saying that the church has fallen away in some sort. And we know that Jesus says that not even the gates of Hades will prevail. My question is how do we come across our Catholic friends who try to use the same argument towards Martin Luther when they say that Martin Luther said that there's been a falling away in the one true church, they say the Catholic church, and tried to start up a new Protestant church? There is going to be an apostasy. You need to read 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 and just go through it.

The apostasy will occur, but it's concomitant with the arrival of the Antichrist. There can be heresies that are creeping into the church, like I read from Joyce Meyer. And there's others.

I can read stuff from the other positive confessionist teachers. God lives on another planet. There's a mother planet out there. It's insanity. So when Catholics start saying that we're doing the same thing as Joseph Smith, they say, how so?

How so? Are we writing new scriptures? Of course not. We're not writing new scriptures. We're not saying God came from another planet. We're not saying there's a goddess mother.

But you guys pray to Mary, but we don't. So please show me from scripture where it exactly is that we're doing whatever it is you say we're doing. Always say to them, show me that in scripture. Show me in scripture.

Always do that. Then you can see how they have problems. Now with that, and real quick with that, is that now they don't rely solely on scripture. They'll try to go to other things, which is honorable that they are very well versed in historical theology because they depend on looking at tradition and things like that. But I've always found that one of the struggles with pointing to scripture is that they'll change the argument that sola scriptura is a false document, a false doctrine.

Just say this. Look, just say, you can argue about sola scriptura if you want, but I'm just asking you, since we both agree the scriptures are inspired, that's our common ground, so can you show me in the scriptures? That's all I'll do. I don't accept your sacred tradition. I accept scripture, and only the scriptures are said to be inspired. Could you please then show me in scripture? If you can't show me in scripture, I'm not interested in having a dialogue with you. That's what I tell them.

Sure. That's what you've got to do. Show me in scripture. Well, we don't believe in the, I don't care. Show me in scripture. Always go to the word of God. Always.

Don't let them, like the devil, take your eyes off of scripture, put it onto a prophet, or a prophetess, or tradition, or something else. Okay? All right. Thank you so much, Matt. You're welcome so much, buddy. All right, man. God bless.

All right. Let's see if we can get on the air really fast with Jose from North Carolina, whom we lost. Let's see. I think we're about out of time here. Tom from North Carolina with the Garden and Parents of Christ. By the time you ask the question, we'll be off the air, so why don't you call back tomorrow, if you don't mind.

I'd love to hear from you. Ladies and gentlemen, briefly. The church is under attack from outside as well as inside. You must know your doctrines, and men, you need to learn. You need to stand up on the truth of God's word, and you need to politely and authoritatively stand on that word and the truth in your groups and lead. That's what needs to happen with Christian men in the Christian church. Folks, may the Lord bless you by his grace. We'll be back on there tomorrow. Hopefully, we'll talk to you then. Have a good one.