Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created withbrook and list the match look live. If you want to give me a call, 5 open lines, 877-20-722-76. And last 4 digits of your CARM because it's Christian Apologetics Research Ministry. CARM.org. That's the website and you can check it out there if you want.

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Hey, folks, look for Open Lines. Why don't you give me a call, 877-207-2276. Yesterday, we had on Eric Johnson from the Mormonism Research Ministry. We talked about his book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons, which you can get on Amazon and ChristianBooks.com.

I do recommend you go check it out. I've known Eric for, I don't know, 30 years. He's a godly man. He has a great wife. Terry, if you're listening, I'm waving.

He's an expert on Mormonism, so he knows so much. These are the guys, he and Bill McKeever, I call up and ask questions when I have issues I need to get to. If you want to give me a call, 4OpenLines, 877-207-2276.

I want to hear from you. Why don't we just jump right on and just get to Chuck from North Carolina. Hey, Chuck. Chuck, welcome, buddy. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey.

Good. Thank you, Matt. Matt, you know, Psalm 11-3, I guess it is, if the foundations are destroyed, what shall the righteous do? I believe that's the verse. Wait, I'm not following you.

I'm not following you. I couldn't quite understand your what? The what? Psalm 11, chapter 11, verse 3, I believe it's if the foundations are destroyed, what shall the righteous do? That applies to her today. Uh-huh. Yeah, it even applies to the lost, in a way.

When we had our Christian foundations of our society, everybody had a foundation to live upon, you know, to guide them generally. And, uh, no. No, we don't. And it caught me that Pope Francis Taper, I think, said, we'll be floating in the air. Right.

We don't have anything. There's a phrase in the Psalm, excuse me, in I forget, I think it's Judges, and everyone did what was right in their own eyes. And what follows that is the destruction of the nation of Israel and then oppression from an outside ruler. That's what happens.

So that's what's happening here. When you're talking, you reminded me, because I go into the virtual world, I have an oculus and I go in and, uh, and I'll talk to people. And so I go to these varying rooms and some of them are quite hostile to the gospel message. And some of them are hostile to me personally because I have a reputation for challenging people. And so, uh, this, I was in this room and this, uh, this one, uh, female, you know, avatar and all this stuff, uh, said that she hated Trump and I'm not saying no for against Trump, but I just said, okay, why? I just was curious.

Maybe they'd know something. I don't know. And she said, Oh, because, uh, of putting people on a Supreme Court who would overturn Roe v. Wade. That was her whole reason.

Okay. So that launched the conversation for us to get into a, what's a human person, which is, and I'm going to tell you, the room was full of people who then started attacking, uh, over talking. I call it dog piling, verbal carpet bombing, not listening to reason, not having a dialogue. They were rude, condescending, insulting, um, were impolite. And when I would try and ask questions, they would just attack.

This is this. This is what happens when they don't have a common foundation in God. They have a common foundation in paganism.

Everyone does what's right in his own eyes. And that reminds me what happened Sunday, which I didn't talk about because, uh, I could talk about that too at the Boise Pride Fest that went on. Was that a gay pride fest or something?

Is that what it was? So, yeah, I went there with some friends on Sunday in Boise, Idaho, and, uh, one of the buddies, he was supposed to film, but the camera wasn't working right. I have an old camera.

I do need to get a new one, a DSLR because the one I have is 12 or 15 years old. And, um, any rate, so we missed some, he missed some of the, uh, of me doing open air, uh, preaching. Not a big deal, but what happened was we went inside this place, um, and it was just, it's literally across the street from the state Capitol in a park. And I understood that the mayor of Boise was there. I went in, the music was so loud that I had to put earplugs in. It was incredibly loud and I mean very loud.

It was just wasn't me. I had my friends that go, man, it's loud. It was just, you'd had one conversation I had with a woman.

I had to get less than a foot away just to hear her because it was that loud. But any rate, so I'll just give you the synopsis. So I had conversations with people in there. It were corporations, companies, Wells Fargo was there and, uh, uh, Citibank was there and the state of this when the state of that was there. And I said, Hey, you know, this is a pride festival, right?

And he had these flags in their booth. I said, so you pride, you have pride about this? He says, yeah. I said, well, what do you have pride about? What's it?

What about this? You're proud. And they hadn't, I guess everyone asked the question. And, uh, so they said, well, uh, uh, you know, the kind of him and hot. And then one person finally said, well, you know, the diversity and equity here, we're proud of that. I said, Oh, okay. I think that's that's noble. Um, so I'm curious at your corporations, do you have equity for the Christians and equality and stuff for that you promote their studies, their, their lifestyle? Do you promote that as well? And they just stared at me and I said, cause it's interesting because what you're doing is promoting a sexual behavior, a sexual preference, a sexual behavior, and that's what you're celebrating. And I think that's really interesting.

And yet you don't promote, uh, you know, Christianity, which is equality. And they're staring at me and, well, uh, but I said, yeah, we call that hypocrisy. And, uh, so I had this kind of conversation about five times at different booths. They weren't able to answer the questions. People were hot.

All right. Then I went outside of the area and there were some Christians preaching and I joined in after about 10 minutes. And let's just say that, uh, the people that I was preaching to were yelling, screaming.

Uh, one guy had a Bible and he walked out and onto the street. They surrounded him, were yelling at him, would not let him speak. Uh, they were yelling at me, would not let me speak. Uh, they were full of anger and I can not even hint at what the vile things they were saying about Jesus.

It was just horrible. And I kept preaching and the foul language, the hatred, the mockery, the disdain, and they would get as close as they could. One guy started putting some stickers, tried to put a sticker on me, you know, on my chest. I said, get away from me. Don't touch me.

You know? And I said, that's assault. If you touch me and I don't want that, it's assault. Just let you know, don't do that. He finally backed off.

People are yelling, screaming. Okay. So this is what happens Sunday and too bad we didn't get much of that on film.

Uh, but like I said, I need a new camera. But any rate, so, um, this is what happens when people do what's right in their own eyes. Just like you said, they don't have a foundation. They don't have it in God. And they learn to hate the light.

They learn to hate it. Yeah. And that's exactly what was going on. Yeah.

The light shines. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

No, that's okay. It's just like the Lord convicting them in there and the lifestyle they're involved in is, uh, so wicked. Really?

Yes. Really wicked. And, uh, it was wicked. And it's so wicked that.

Yeah, go ahead. And that it's so wicked. They get convicted and they like so crazy that the hatred that comes from them. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how, you know, I know man fell and it became bad.

I don't know how exactly, but he didn't like, like with, uh, uh, evil. He said, where did it come from? You said that?

I don't know, but it came from somewhere here and it's with people too. Right? Yeah. Yeah, man.

I'm so concerned just like you about our country. My goodness gracious. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I was sorry. I was just going to say that the festival was all about love and tolerance and they showed absolutely no love and no tolerance whatsoever. The hypocrisy was so evident and they can't see it because you don't have the right to speak. You don't have the right to have a different opinion.

Only their opinion is the right one. And so they will silence you and try and stop you from speaking. This is the hypocrisy. Now hypocrisy is a form of lying. You say one thing and do another.

You're hypocritical. And this is what's going on more and more in this country. The foundation is gone. Foundation in Christ has gone and everyone's doing what's right in his own eyes. And for, you can just go on the web and you can do searches for assaults and the crime rates are going up. Murder rates are going up. People getting out of prison.

It is as though there are people behind the scenes pulling strings to make our country as volatile as possible in order to maybe suspend the constitution so they can gain control. And when I was talking about this at our Friday meeting with our missionaries, we have a Friday meeting at CARM a few days ago last week, they said the same thing is happening in their respective countries. That in South America, in two different countries, they are letting the criminals out. They are punishing the people who abide by the law.

Homelessness is increasing. They're attacking Christians. Crime is on the rise and the government's not doing anything about it. Well, it's like the devil has control. The Lord's pulling his hands off the United States and so many places on the earth, you know, the whole of, you know, and he's allowing it to happen. He's not responsible. He's allowing it to happen because it's their own choice. That's what they want.

Well, unless they get saved, they're going to have their, you know, reward for eternity. Okay, Matt. Thank you, Matt. All right, man. God bless, buddy. All right, everybody.

That was Chuck from North Carolina. We'll be right back, athletes. Messages 877-207-2276. We'll be right back.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome to the show. Welcome back. If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. All right. If you want to watch the show, you want to watch me do this. It's not a big a deal. One thing you can do is see if my voice matches my face because most people say, no, it does not.

If you want to check it out, just go to karm.org, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And on the right-hand side, you'll see the stuff Matt Slick live. All right. So I've been playing a little bit with the lighting.

I'm just curious to know if people think in the room if they like it. All right. And give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Joe from High Point, North Carolina.

Joe, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

How are you? Oh, I'm hanging in there. More hanging than in there, but I'm hanging in there.

So where you got in? I have a question for you. My mother was in a church study group the other day, and she's 82 years old, and came back and called me up and she said, the study leader was saying that this is what he was saying, that God threw Lucifer out of heaven and did not throw him to earth. There was no earth for him to throw him to. And I've always been taught that there was an earth for him to throw him to.

And I'm going, okay, that's an entity. Yeah, we don't know. People have asked me the question before, I don't know what to tell you, because I don't know when it was that Lucifer was cast out of heaven. Was it before the universe was created, or was it after the universe was created? Some say it was after, and some say it was right about the time of the fall of Adam and Eve. So I just don't know.

I've looked at it, and it just says he was cast out, but it doesn't say when, doesn't give us any time markers I'm aware of. So what that pastor or the Bible study leader said is within the logical realm of possibility and the best of my knowledge. It doesn't mean it's true, it just means it's one of the possible options. Okay?

Okay. But to say this is what happened, that's a problem. You know, because the Bible doesn't tell us when it happened. It tells us that it happened. So if I were teaching a Bible study and this came up, I'd say, well, one view is this, one view is that, one view, whatever, and I said the Bible doesn't tell us as far as I'm aware, it doesn't say when this occurred, before or after the foundation was laid of the universe.

And so I just can't tell you, and I wish I could, but that's it. And I just say, here are the possibilities, and there we go, we'll find out later when we get to heaven. Now, is that in Chronicles, when that took place, or is that where he found this in Isaiah?

Isaiah 14, yeah. And it says in Isaiah 14, 12, how you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn, you have been cut down to the earth, and you have weakened the nations. Now, we could make a case from there that that's where he was cast down to, cut down to the earth. When it came out of heaven, you've fallen from heaven, went down to earth.

Okay? Is it literal? Maybe. You have weakened the nations, but you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars, I'll set the mount of the assembly, I will ascend to the heights of the clouds, I'll make myself like the most high, nevertheless you'll be thrust down to Sheol.

So, it certainly, now that I'm thinking about it, certainly would seem that if this is the description of the fall of Satan, then it would be after the universe was made. That would be the implication. Okay. All right, well, I need to come back and read this and see what the Holy Spirit reveals to me. Well, there you go.

Well, good, I hope he does, but I would just make sure you go with the scriptures in that, okay? All right, buddy. Absolutely. All right. All right, thank you, sir. All right, Joe, God bless.

Okay. All right, Four Open Lines, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Chris from New Jersey. Chris, welcome.

You are on the air. Hey, little Matt, how are you? I'm all right. Hanging in there, man.

What do you got? Good. I have a question about Leviticus 16, verse 14. Leviticus 16, 14. Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bowl and sprinkle it with his finger in the mercy seat on the east side. Also in the front of the mercy seat, he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times, okay?

All right. So, my question is, what was the significance of the east side be, as opposed to the west side? East is the rising of the sun. Also, the temple, the door that you enter into faces east. The tabernacle, it faced east. And the east is when the sun rises, and it's a symbol of God in the light. Because God said, let there be light, Jesus is the light of the world, et cetera. So facing the east is the rising of the sun.

Okay. You know, one commentary that I read, it was talking about where the people were usually gathered towards the east of the temple. So at the time of the sacrifice, there would be all the people gathered on the eastern side, and then the priest would come in as the, and make the sacrifice on the behalf of the people? Right.

Is that possible too? Well, yeah, they'd be facing, it'd be towards the east. You asked about the east, and you know, the east of the temple, and that's where, because that's where the door would be.

And the high priest would go in and move from east to west. Yeah. Okay. And is there any significance as to why the west side was not touched? I don't know.

Or anything like that? I don't know. I don't think it's an issue of not being touched. I think it's just because maybe the issue of the setting of the sun in darkness, and so there's symbolism in that. And so they would want to stay on the east, not the west, because of the symbolism of being the light of God, not in the darkness, and things like that. You know, maybe, you know.

Okay. Because people, you know, people often take a little symbol like that and make a big deal out of it, and it becomes a tradition, it becomes, you know, a practice. Yeah, one theory that I read about was that it's a possibility that it was the western side where, you know, when Christ came and presented himself before the Father as a sacrifice, that maybe there's some significance to where that was reserved for him to see either when he sits down or something, that that's where the sacrifice for all time was made. I don't know. Check it out.

One theory is from Ron Wyatt. Are you familiar with him? No.

No? Well, he's one of the guys that claims to have found the Ark. And when he says he found it, again, this is just a theory, but he claims that when he found blood on it, which was under Calvary, that it would bled on the western side as a complete picture of the sacrifice.

I mean, I'm like, I don't believe that really that he necessarily found it. I don't know. I don't know the man.

But I'm just wondering if there's something in scripture that talks about the western side being reserved for the propitiation. I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of factors in that. And when you study the whole thing, it becomes very interesting. There's a lot, not just on the surface, but a lot of deep stuff there.

So I'm not sure I can tell you. All right, buddy. There's a break. Thank you so much. All right, Chris. God bless, man.

Thanks a lot. Hey, we have five open lines wide open. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. We have nobody waiting right now.

If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. This issue of LGBTQ and what's happening, in my opinion, I'm going to give you my opinion. In my opinion, it's going to become even more oppressive. There's something, well, there's obviously a spiritual component to the idea of rebelling against God in the very nature of male-female relations that God has ordained and set up. A lot of people don't think of this in these terms, but homosexuality, LGBTQ is an attack on the created order of God and ultimately an attack on the Messiah. And the reason it is, is because in the Old Testament, this intensity of sexual perversion that occurred in the Old Testament would have threatened the arrival of the Messiah by threatening the coherence and the genealogy that the Messiah would come in the nation of Israel.

So it was, in that context, ultimately a demonic attack. And so people today, they are serving their flesh. They're not serving God. They are raising their own ideas of sensibility, of truth, morals, to such a level that even God himself is to be judged by them as wrong. Their arrogance is before them. Their foolishness is before them. Their pride is before them. The judgment of God is upon them. In fact, when I was doing open air out there, open air preaching, I was in open air out there outside the Capitol area on Capitol Street, for those of you who might be listening know the area, I actually talked about the judgment that was on them right then and there for their denial of who God was. There were only a couple places in the open air where they actually heard.

And maybe three, two and a half, just depends. One of them was when I said the judgment of God is on their hearts for they believe the lie. And I saw a few people, they paid attention to that. Another one was in their mockery of God. And I told them, they've mocked God and there's judgment in their hearts for that as well. And then of course, I preached Christ crucified and risen from the dead. And it was a pleasure to be able to speak that. And I had to raise my voice over the music, over the crowd yelling, and tell them that they needed Jesus and that they needed to repent of their sins and they need to trust in Christ because judgment's coming and we're all going to die one day and Jesus rose from the dead and gave that gospel message about trusting in him.

And I'm thankful for that ability and that privilege of being able to do that. So in a hostile world, when the light shines in the darkness, even the smallest of light can become a harsh reality to them and they will want to destroy it. Now if you think about this, if there was a community of people who lived in caves and they were their eyes and their souls and their heart to become accustomed to the darkness, and they're so accustomed to that darkness that if a light were to shine, it would be injurious to them, uncomfortable to them. And that's the case.

That's what I see. We are called the light in the world because we represent Christ. Christ himself is that light because we represent him. When we speak the truth, the light shines upon their sin and they hate that light and they want to destroy the light because they prefer the darkness of their own hearts and the judgment of God is upon them in the darkness of their own hearts where they love evil. They seek to promote that which is ungodly and they mock the things of God and they condemn and mock the very sacrifice of Christ himself by which they can be redeemed. And this is a sign of the degradation of our society, a degradation of the hearts of so many people who hate the things of God because they hate the light that shines upon their dark hearts and they do not like what they see.

So they suppress it and in order to suppress that, it will suppress you. And that is how it works. Let's get to Jan from Richmond, Virginia. Jan, welcome.

We're on the air. Jan, are you there? Hello. Hi, Jan. Hi. Hi. Oh, yes. I'm glad that you have the show and that you let the man like me call you with a question.

Well, praise God. So I just started a new job. I worked for these people a long time ago and I do evaluations of how people do their jobs and I have to lie to them about who I am and what I'm doing there and stuff. You can't lie. And I know, right? Don't lie. It's really been bothering me.

I'm sorry? It's really been bothering me. Yeah, because it's... Yeah, I figured that. Are you able to give an example so that we can reword things so you're not lying but accomplishing the same whatever it is?

Because here's an example. An old boss of mine said a phone call's coming in in a half hour and he wanted me to pick it up and tell the guy that he was not there. And I said, but no, I can't do that because it's not true. It's a lie. I won't lie for you. I just said, I'm not going to lie.

I will say you're not available because he wasn't available. I said, okay. He says, okay, I'll go with that. I said, fine.

So there's an example of something, okay? Well, I'm not sure because I have to go into a place where I presumably are there to buy a big ticket item or maybe a lease or something like that. So I'm lying from the get-go. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on, hold on. So you're going into a store to buy something? No, pretend to buy something and not buy it just so I can evaluate how the people react to me. If they say the right things, if they're wearing the right clothes, if they're all these things.

Well, hold on, hold on. So lying is something that occurs in the heart. All right. So if your intention is to deceive, then that's a lie. But if you're going into evaluate how people do things, it's not a lie.

It's just an evaluation. Right. But I have to tell them I'm somebody else and that I'm here to actually be a customer. That's a lie. Okay.

Right. Then you need to talk to your bosses so you can't do that. You know, and you could... Yeah, because it's a job. So what I'll do sometimes when I don't want to use my first name, I'll use my middle name and I use that name. And so they'll say, what's your name? And I'll say my name and I go in, you know, and I'm not lying, et cetera. I'm not deceiving them. It is my name. So...

Right. I do that. But the rest of it, you know, I'm looking for a two-bedroom house. I'm looking for... I'll be moving in October. I'm not moving anywhere. Don't say you are if you're not.

That's a lie. So you can say something like... I'm sorry, what? Like I'm interested in, maybe. Well, you can just say things like, I'm curious to know how this works. I'm just curious about things. I'm gathering information.

I just want to know. Just tell them, you know, that's it. If I were going in, you know, in a house thing or whatever it is, you know, considering how someone so sells something and I was there, I'm not going to lie, you know. But I'll say, I'm here. I just want to see how things work, what's going on.

Should I ever want to sell or buy? I want to have information, which would be true. Right. Okay. Yeah.

I could change around to do that, probably. Sure. I've just had some guilt issues over it. Good. Good, you should.

Oh, Jesus. You should. You don't want to be deceptive. Okay.

But you don't have to volunteer everything either. I mean, you don't want to be deceptive out of omission. But if you want to evaluate how someone else is doing something and they ask you a question and you lie to them, you need to stop that.

Okay. So there are ways to get around things. Not that you're trying to be deceptive by not lying and you're still doing the same thing. That's not it. So if you go in and you want to see how they do things, you say, I just want to see how you do things.

What's wrong with that? Well, there's a lot more to it, like calling and setting appointments and all that stuff. But I think I can, with what you told me, I can take each one of those little segments and make it okay. Yeah. I love the job, but I just don't like the deceit part. Yeah.

You don't want to deceive anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. All right.

You're welcome. Okay. Well, God bless, Jan. All right. We have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

Alex from Orlando. We've got a break coming up, but what do you got, buddy? Oh, there's the break. I just finished. Okay.

There's the break. So hold on. We'll get right back to you after, you need to take some, I think she takes some medicine from my brain. We'll be right back, folks. After these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, welcome back to the show everyone.

We have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Alex from Orlando.

Alex, welcome buddy. Hey, I just finished my baking soda, vitamin C, my tie, you know, my nightly drink. You know, it really helps if in addition, right before all the, right after the fuzz is gone, is you just pour seven up in there with all the bubbles and then you drink it and then you roll, lay down the ground and roll. Oh, yeah.

And then my wife finds me passed out on the floor and she calls the ambulance. Yeah. So you get a free ride and it's no big deal.

I mean, what's the problem here? And then you get some, you get some monumentous belches and you can do that. Like, like he did an elf. Did you hear that? Anyway, so yeah, we got buddy. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah.

So UPCI, so I was texting you, we got to talk to my friend and we got to talk. We're talking right now. Yeah. I know.

I mean like over the phone, you know, you're not on the phone. Okay. All right. Well, you know, just, just, you know, so what do you do? Yeah. So I met this guy at the gym and he does, uh, sorry, hold on. So I met this guy at the gym and he's in the UPCI. So I got an invitation to go to his church. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go.

I want to encounter it, but I want to ask your advice. Just wear a wetsuit. Why do I need to wear a wetsuit?

A wetsuit and a crash helmet. You'll be fine. Don't worry. So yeah, I want to ask you about that. So he's like, yeah, you can come and worship with me. And I said, well, you know, I won't be worshiping.

Yeah. I said, I won't be worshiping with you, but I'll come to attend the service. And I want to know like when I'm going to reach out to him, we're going to get coffee and I'm going to go to his service. He's like, yeah, a lot of people from the headquarters will be there. But how do you know when you went to that service in Idaho, you know, how do you navigate that? Like it's going to be uncomfortable.

It's going to be long. Like what's your advice regarding them? Well, they're not out to get you. They're not, they're not violent people. They're not condemning you to find them to be quite warm and welcoming. And, uh, you know, if you were to, you know, drop something, they'll help you pick it up. They're just normal, decent people.

Okay. And you're going to find a level of exuberance that you may not be comfortable with. Not that it's right or wrong, but, uh, they tend to, let's just say, um, become energetic so they can run around the church. They can jump up and down.

They can shout, they can clap. Uh, they have women pastors and elders, which is definitely unbiblical. Uh, they deny the Trinity, deny who Christ truly is, what he's really done, et cetera. So it's a non-Christian cult, but, uh, you know, you'll get on, you'll be fine. And then afterwards, just, just, uh, talk to him and be careful, uh, how you talk to him.

Um, because you don't want to be offensive, you know, you don't want to just say, Oh, Hey, I listened to a guy in the radio named slick. He said, it's a cult. I don't want to talk to you.

It's not good advice, but you could give him some vitamin C baking soda, you know, just prep him up for your discussion with them. Yeah. Well, we might not be on a good start. Well, cause I already told the guy he was lost when I met him. I said, I said, you're lost man. And I said, I said, I bet you think I'm lost too. And he goes, no, no, no. He was really nice.

He's like, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't say you're lost. We serve the same God type of thing. So yeah, exactly. And so we're talking and I didn't realize, do you know, so they, I said, do you believe in the Trinity? He said, well, nowhere in the Bible is the word Trinity used, but then he goes, so neither is the word atheist in the Bible yet.

Atheism. It's just, that's a dumb, dumb. It's like, come on.

You know, I would have asked him, did you drop a barbell in your head or something? You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, he's very deceived. He grew up. He's third generation UPCI.

So very deceived. And I said, well, I said, what about the son and the father? You know, do you think the son was talking to himself in the garden? And he goes, yeah, I think he was.

They actually think that Jesus was talking to himself in the garden. Like that. I didn't know that here. Oh yeah. Yeah.

So let me, let me give you the pointers. Okay. The key is the issue of personhood.

That's it. So what you do is when you have your, after you go and you go to coffee, find a place where you can have a good conversation and you want to, uh, to ask him, what do you think the Trinity is and various things you want to get to the conversation about the person, a person theologically in reference to the Trinity is, uh, is what we, uh, use a term to demonstrate what we call the attributes of personhood, self-awareness, awareness of others, being able to speak you, yours, me, mine. And so you say, that's what we mean by person. And he'll go, okay. And then you ask him, was Jesus a person?

It's going to have to say yes. Okay. So Jesus was a person.

All right. And how do we know he was a person? Because he had the attributes of humanity, had the attributes of personhood. He could say you and yours and me and mine, and I have a will and not my will, but your will. And I mean, that's what personhood is. That's what personhood is.

Right? And he'll go, yeah. So Jesus is a person. All right. So when Jesus was praying to the father, was he, was the person of Christ praying to the person of the father? And this is where just listen closely.

You'll start hearing the wheels come off the cart. Okay. Because they're going to, then what they'll generally do is say that the human nature was praying to the divine nature. This is called Nestorianism. Nestorius taught the idea that in the one body of Christ are two distinct persons. Now, official UPCI statements are such that the the person of Christ has two distinct natures as one person, but they're very inconsistent in how they apply that. So you have to ask them. So the person, it depends on how the conversation goes because they're, you know, different.

UPCI are different. So you say, are you saying then that Jesus was one person or was he two persons? Now they're going to say, you know, he was one person and he was God and man, right? Because they'll say yes. So he was one person as God and man, right?

This is very important. One person as God and man. He should say yes. And how do we know he was a person? Because he said, I, you, yours, me, mine.

He had a will, he could love, things like that, right? So then who was he praying to? Because if Jesus is a person, who's he praying to? But if he's praying to himself, are you saying that Jesus is a person praying to himself? Is Jesus a person praying to himself? And they'll say, well, yes. So then are you saying the human nature is praying to the divine nature?

They'll say yes. Then how is he one person? This is, this is where the problem is. Okay.

It's a huge problem. Now, it also, if you go to karm.org and I'm going to look for it. Let's see. Oh boy. I'm going back.

I forgot exactly where I, Oh, that's right. Luke put up a bunch of articles. So I got to go back a few more pages and I wrote a good job at hosting the show the other day. Oh, he does a great job.

Yeah. I'm going to tell him that because his head might get bigger, but yeah, he's a good guy. Hope he didn't hear me say that. He lives on the radio. So, uh, no, he is a great asset to Karm.

He really is. All right. So what I'm doing is looking for, um, Oh man.

You know, let's see one more thing here. I wrote, okay. There's an article I wrote and released.

Um, I have to go backwards. What I want you to do if you can is find this art. Uh, you know, I just got to find it. Let me just look because it's really going to be very helpful. You can, you can, you can text it to me. Just text me the article and you find it personally, the father and Jesus, because, uh, yeah, here we go. Oh, I got a lot.

Yeah. So it's called oneness Jesus and which nature is talking. So just type in which nature is talking and go through that. And for example, when I had a discussion with one of my opponents, um, Bishop Jerry Hayes, uh, he's a oneness guy and he's very polite gentleman.

So I'll give him that. But, um, I asked something like this, the pericope, John six 37 through 39. Uh, and I asked him various questions about it and let's just go with verse 38 just to save time for Jesus says, for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. So I said, okay, now look for I, that divine nature of the human nature. He said, divine nature. I came down from heaven not to do my own will.

That's the human nature. He said, but the will of him who sent me as a divine nature. So this is evidence that they say the divine nature and the human nature communicate to each other, but that means there are two persons and I have a definition of what they have a definition of what personhood is also in that article. So this is something you've got to look at and you got to check out.

So then here's something else. Now I want you to pay attention to this because this is all logic. It's all, it's right there in scripture. What I'm gonna do is go to John 17 five. Now ask him, does Jesus speak as one person or does he speak as two persons? Because if Jesus is a person, he can only speak as one person, right?

Makes sense. That's why you can say, is Jesus a person? He's gonna have to say yes. If he doesn't, well, you know, he's got problems.

Just put your hand on one side of his ear and then look on through the other ear and see if you can see light. You know, you move your hand up and down because it means you don't know. Yeah. So, uh, now this is what he says. John 17 five, father glorify me with the glory I had with you, which before the foundation, before the world was, how can Jesus, the person say the I he's going to have to say was a divine, uh, nature, but he's speaking as a single person because he says, I manifested your name to the men.

Who's that? That's a person of Jesus. Well then is a divine nature talking. I have manifested in the next verse or is it the human nature? If it's only the human nature, then what we have is a schizophrenic view of Christ where he alternates between, uh, nature's speaking, divine nature, human nature, divine nature. You can even get it where in one sentence, in one sentence, the two natures are talking alternately.

It just gets ludicrous. This is why you got to focus on this. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'll, I'll follow that. Oh, really quick too.

Before the show ends. I talked about David K. Bernard and they, they actually mentioned the guy mentioned him to me and he said, I said, yeah, my friend Matt did a, uh, debate with, or wanted to debate him and he wouldn't debate, but he might do a discussion and yada yada. And I told him that and he said, yeah, but he seemed to get a little agitated when Matt started to ask him questions about what he believed in the scriptures and going to the text.

He said, Oh, David's not like that. My sister works at headquarters and they know the whole, she knows the whole family. They're, they're really nice people there. So they, they have this guy really at a pedestal. He's not a pedestal to them. He's got, they look at him kind of like God complex for sure.

Like he's the all in all the top dog, UPCI. We'll tell you what, this is one of those weird connections. Now you have this guy connection and you tell him that, uh, Matt slick, et cetera, still wants to have a discussion with them. I've emailed him and I haven't gotten response back yet and we're about out of time. You should go back tomorrow. Let me know what happens with this guy too.

Okay. Yeah, I will. I will.

I'm going to try in the next couple of weeks. I'm going to get together with, but thanks brother. I appreciate it. All right, man. God bless. God bless. All right.

That was Alex from Orlando, Florida. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We'll be back on there tomorrow and hopefully we'll talk to them. Have a great evening, everybody. God bless. That's fine. Another program powered by the truth network.