Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you're a newbie, it's my real name.

It's not a radio name, though it does work out nicely for a radio name. I am a Christian apologist. I defend the Christian faith by doing it for a long time. If you want to give me a call, all you've got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

We have five open lines, nobody waiting right now, and that's okay. So yesterday, I did a bit on the history of the Democratic Party. And then last night, what I do on Wednesday nights on club deck, club houses, I do a Q&A session. They open up a room and people moderate it. They just ask me questions.

People come in all over. And sometimes you get these interesting discussions. And I had an interesting discussion, two of them yesterday. One was with a oneness guy, and the other was about a guy who claimed to be reformed in his theology, committed to Christ, and was a Democrat. And I said, look, how could you be a Democrat?

And I'm talking to people out there right now. Listen, how could you be a Christian and be part of a political party that promotes killing of the unborn and LGBTQ and socialism, all of which are flatly against scripture? And so we had a discussion about that, and I read through the bit that I did on that on the government.

It's going to be on the Democratic Party, that's right. And also went through Marxism, communism, went through socialism, compared, contrasted, and tried to educate people who were listening on what the evils are of those systems. And then, just to top it off, went in and discussed the number of people murdered under those regimes, and socialist, communist regimes in the 1900s.

Well over 100 million people, and as high as 360 million. So, yeah, it was an interesting discussion last night. And people say, well, Matt, you're a Christian theologian, why do you talk politics? Because every area of life is under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and the political one is just as much under the purview of Christ as anything else, not just church on Sunday.

So we Christians are to exhibit the Lordship of Christ in all areas, which means get involved in politics, get involved with the media, get involved with movies, and things like that. And that reminds me, so in the kitchen, you know, I work and I clean up and do stuff, make some fantastic meals for my wife, that's what I call them, no matter what she calls them. And I have a TV nearby, so I turn on the TV and I listen to a new news station. And this woman was talking about, I only listened for a minute, and I said, I'm done. And she said, yeah, we need to vote for people, you know, in the blue states, we've got to vote for people who care about the health of women, and that's why we need to vote blue. And I knew what she was talking about, you know, these women's rights to kill the unborn in the womb. And whenever I hear people talk like that online or on TV, you never hear the issue of what is that which is in the womb.

Is it human or not human, live or not live, what is it? You don't hear that. What you hear is, woman's rights, woman's rights, my rights, me, me, me, me, my rights, my rights, me, me, me. That's the opposite of what I've understood women to be. Women, you know, women, I'll tell you, they are so blessed. They get to have children.

They get to bear life in their own body and nurture that life from their own body. They have that ability to be kind and gentle in ways that men just cannot be. Women are awesome. Women are special. And when women start talking about what their rights are, give me, my, me, you know, this is the opposite of what I've grown up with, understanding what women are to be.

Other-centered, caring, nurturing. But we have the opposite of that now so much in the world where women, they want to enjoy themselves. And when the consequences of their actions take fruit, they want to kill that fruit.

And then they claim their rights. And this is a real degradation of American society and worldly society as well. It is.

These are some of the things I think about and that I believe. So there you go. All right.

Hey, how about that? We're starting to pot a little bit at the beginning of the show. Why don't we get on the air with Calvin from Raleigh, North Carolina. Calvin, welcome. You're on the air, buddy. Hey, Matt. I have some news to share with you. Okay. China and Russia seem to have snuck something in on us. I pulled something up. In fact, I heard something on TikTok recently whereby it said that China and Russia, they now have a new currency.

And it made me think. I went online and I pulled up something today whereby it says China and Russia, Trenton's tie, replace USD with gold, back trade. And now it also says that Russia and China have been in cahoots for quite some time now. Not only have the both countries developed a payment network to rid SWIFT, I don't know what SWIFT is, but they are also looking to rid of the US dollar. A new alliance between both nations have focused on gold-backed trading standards. Bypassing the US dollar is quite an ambitious goal, but it is not entirely impossible either. A few weeks ago, the Russian Central Bank opened an overseas office in Beijing. That is quite a significant development to say the least.

A strong Beijing-Moscow alliance can create a major break up in the financial sector. Okay. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay, so you're reading a lot of stuff. Okay, so do you have a question related to all of this?

No, not a question, I just want to share something with you. Okay. Well, you know what, as you're talking there, I'm looking it up and, yeah, it does look like Russia and China are brewing up a challenge to dollar dominance by trading a new reserve currency. Exactly. Scary.

Yes, it is. Because what would happen, from what I've understood, if this kind of a thing happens, it will destroy the US economy. Just destroy it. Yeah, it will.

It really will. Yeah. And what are government leaders doing? Well, they're giving billions of dollars of arms to our enemies. They are destroying our own economy by causing inflation, causing problems.

People outside the United States see the writing on the wall that America is eating itself alive. They've got to get away from it before it's completely gone. Yes, indeed. Yeah. We can thank the leftist Democrat people for that. Yeah, uh-huh.

And actually Russia has been stockpiling gold now for the past 20 years. They had a plan. Yep.

Yeah, I know. Very scary. Yes, I need to do more research on it and put it into my file. I have a file on government and just notes about things that we talk about on the radio.

I have documentation and things like that. And so I need stuff like that as well. Yeah, and this is all part of the struggle that nations go through. And Israel has fallen throughout history numerous times.

Nations have fallen. And it reminds me, it reminds me, there's a book, The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. I remember seeing it in the 70s. And on the left page, it was a picture book basically with a couple captions. And on the left page it was Rome. On the right page it was, on the right side it was America, the United States. And so it had statues and pictures and things like this, paintings.

On the left depicting the issues of Rome and its rise and it was paralleled with America. And then it went through the destruction of Rome, the Roman Empire. And it got to that place before it was destroyed. And it kept going. On the left side you see the pictures keep going. But on the right side it stopped because the United States wasn't that far gone yet. And so what you'd seen was the same kind of degradation, morally, politically, that was going on in Rome, the Roman Empire that was occurring in the United States. It was back in the 70s that I saw this book.

I wonder if that's still around. Anyway, it's the same thing. I'm not being lazy fair about it. This is serious. And as I was saying last night on a chat system, I believe America is too far gone.

I do. I believe it's too far gone. I believe it can be saved, but it has to be saved by the Conservatives standing up in unison very soon and saying enough of this. Then we need to get our constitutional republic back and get these anti-Americans out of office whose interests are more in Russia and in China and in the dollar bill. They don't have any character. They're there for decades. They get entrenched.

They become corrupted. Yeah. Think about it. Do you trust the FBI? I don't. Do you trust the federal government? I don't. Do you trust the IRS? I don't. I don't trust them.

I don't trust them at all. Anyway, all kinds of stuff. I got you.

Right? Mm-hmm. Thanks for listening, Matt. Thank you. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I need to look at it. Thank you very much. All right. Let's get to Rudolph from Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air.

Yes, sir. What is the Preterist law? The Preterist view? The Preterist view is that Jesus returned in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple. He returned in the armies of Jerusalem, the armies of Rome attacking Jerusalem, and that was how he returned and that all things spoken of in Matthew 24, Luke 17, Mark 13 were fulfilled at that time. And it's false, because you can refute Preterism by going to Acts 1, 9-11, where it tells us how Jesus is going to return, and he's not going to return that way.

He's going to return in the clouds. So, okay. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

I thought it was that cloud. See? Quick and slick, huh? Right there. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you. You're welcome, brother. God bless. Thank you. All right.

God bless. Okay. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. We're going to get to my window. Uh-oh.

I can't get to my window to turn that off, to drop him off the call. Come on. So, hold on.

Keith, maybe you can drop him. My window froze, and it should unfreeze here in a little bit. Yeah, it's frozen. In fact, my whole computer might be frozen. Nope.

Is it? Okay. We're good. Whew.

All right. Hey, three open lines if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Let's get to Justin from New Hampshire. Hey, Justin.

Welcome. You're on the air. How's it going, Matt? It's going. It's going, big boy. What do you got, man? It's going.

It's good. So, my question, well, yeah. So, I was reading your article on the atonement in regards to how Mormons view it on your website, and it sounds like, and I just want to make sure this logically follows this is what I'm calling, it sounds like they accept the atonement by, at the end, basically keeping all his commandments. So, the way that they accept his atonement is by keeping his commandments, correct? Yeah, I have to admit here that I'm a little fuzzy on LDS soteriology, and it's because I've not seen any, how do I say this without just being needlessly offensive, I'm not trying to be, but any in-depth, serious intellectual examination of their atoning belief system. And the reason is, I think, is because they teach that Jesus bore our sins in his body on the cross, but also in the Garden of Gethsemane when he sweat blood.

That was the main atoning work, which is a denial of the cross. And so, let me get a break. Hold on, buddy. We've got a break, okay?

Yeah. Have fun. Hey, folks.

We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Right away, welcome back to the show. We have two open lines, 877-207-2276. Justin, are you still there? I am here, yes. All right.

Now, where were we? Yeah, I was getting lost in your commercials. Yeah. Anyways. So, we were talking about atonement and, yeah, so basically you're saying you haven't really found anything that gets deep into their soteriology?

No. Now, I have a friend, Bill McKeever, and I'm actually looking at his website right now, MRM.org, Gethsemane Atonement. And look at the article there. Now, he really knows this stuff, inside out, backwards, forwards.

And we've had discussions about this over – what's that? I listen to him every morning on his podcast. Oh, he's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's awesome.

He and Eric do great stuff. And so, we've talked about this before, and I've asked him. And so, he has the same view that I remember as I do. It's not as precise as it needs to be. Now, they teach that he suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane and that I've heard Mormons and read stuff in Mormonism where it says that he atoned there, but also they say he atoned on the cross, which seems to be both. But the Bible says he bore our sin in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2.24, and yet they say the suffering began in the Gethsemane and this is part of the atoning sacrifice, which it can't be. So, there's this ambiguity here.

And it's often the case with groups that are not, well, because they don't have the true God, the true gospel, they don't understand true theology and they can't ever have a very precise theological examination of things. And that's one of the reasons I would say that's there. Right. Yeah.

It comes down to arbitrariness. I've experienced that too, just in regards to one moment in the garden and throughout the years it's become more and more towards the cross and it seems like they're adding it on as an afterthought, kind of, not to be shrewd about it, but you know what I mean. It kind of has to add on to appease the conflict against it.

Yeah, it's bad. And in fact, on Bill's website, I'm reading it right now, it says, this is from Gratitude for the Atonement, end sign, June 2007, 15, and it says, quote, near the end of his earthly ministry, the Savior went with his disciples to the Mount of Olives, to the Garden of Gethsemane. It was there that the Savior paid the price for all our sorrows, sins, and transgressions of every human being who ever lived and ever will live. So, that's heresy, you know. It is.

Absolutely. So, another question, do you know of any, so I've been getting into listening to Greg Bond's things, pre-subsitional apologetic courses and stuff. Do you know anybody who deals with that in regards to Mormonism, like, you know, kind of working out the implications of God being once a man, whether he sinned or didn't sin, you know what I mean, just kind of like working through that type of stuff, or probably not. Okay, so let me get this straight, you're saying Greg Bond sin in relationship to Mormonism?

No, no, okay. So, he had a, I'm listening to his apologetic stuff, but because I'm listening to it, my mind's starting to think through things in regards to Mormonism, because my mind, you know, kind of lining up in it, in the thought, so I wasn't sure if there was a different type of resource that, like, deals with that specifically in regards to Mormonism and the pre-subpositional... Oh, pre-subpositionalism and Mormonism. Does that make sense? Yes. How can you apply pre-subpositional apologetics to Mormonism? Right.

You can. Yes, exactly. You have to understand a little bit deeper areas of pre-subpositionalism and the necessary preconditions for intelligibility that rests in the Trinitarian God. So, the ultimate source of all things has to be one. It can't be multiple ultimates, and if there are multiple ultimates, you don't have any ultimates, you don't have anything that you can ground anything in.

I'm not explaining everything, but this is how it works, and I don't have time right here. In Mormonism, there is no ultimate source. There is no ultimate being. And so, when you go pre-subpositional, and what you do is you assume the Trinitarian view and monotheism, not henotheism, like Mormonism has, that there's many gods and they serve and worship only one.

And so they have multiple gods, and so they functionally have multiple ultimates, but multiple ultimates are self-refuting. You can't have that. It does not work logically. It's impossible. And so this is a humongous problem. And, in Mormonism, they cannot face this kind of intellectual difficulty because it's impossible for the Mormon system to be maintained logically, intellectually, when you start examining it on this level.

It's just flat out impossible. And it's so bad that it proves Mormonism is false. I've actually written on this one little article about it. It's a logical proof of Mormonism's impossibility with the multiple ideas of God, because the multiple ideas of God, you can't ground universals like circle-ness, duck-ness, the number seven, laws of logic. You can't ground them with multiple sources of ultimate.

There has to be a single ultimate in what's called abstract entities. This gets way above the average everyday radio conversation. But you'll never find a competent Mormon who can talk about this stuff and also defend Mormonism because it's just impossible. And so you're becoming more aware of that, I'm assuming, right? Oh, absolutely, yeah. I'm kind of looking for a Christian resource that deals with or that has touched on that in a presuppositional view.

That's what I was asking. But it's fine. I mean, I've just been thinking about it more and more because I engage a lot with the LDS, my dad's a Mormon, and all that stuff. So, you know, it's pretty close to me just in regards to wanting to reach out to him and just care for him. You know, care for his soul. I love him. And I just know the implications of the situations he's in, you know? Right.

Yeah. Well, you know, I've written on the website CARM. I've written a logical proof that Mormonism is false. And it's there.

You can go check it out. It's not too deep. I could write another one or two that are very deep, but the average Joe would not understand them. So it would be meant for people a little bit more logical philosophical training in what things are and truth values. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, it boggles my mind just, you know, the more and more I engage in it, the more and more, you know, it makes sense. So I'm just going to keep going with it, you know? Good. Keep doing that because you'll find presuppositional apologetics to be incredibly powerful, incredibly powerful.

And it will provide the foundation from which your intellectual understanding of God will increase further than any other apologetic system like classical or evidential. Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah. And one more question and then I'll let you go. Sorry.

Sure. As far as Greek lexicons go, which one would you recommend or are they all fine? Is there a go-to for you? BAGD is good. Bower Art Gindrith is a good lexicon. You know, I would just get one or two, you know, Greek dictionary lexicons that go through stuff. And you'll find it to be fine.

You can go to blueletterbible.com and you can look on there, too, and I have some good stuff there. All right? All right. Thank you. All right, man. God bless. Take care. Okay.

Hey, folks. We have three open lines. We'll get to Alberto next.

Three open lines can be called 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back, everybody. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia.

Hey, Alberto. Welcome, buddy. Hey, finally, man, you're on the air. You what? I can't hear you, buddy.

You got it? Hey, Alberto, are you there? Maybe he doesn't know he's on the air.

Alberto. Let's give him another 10 seconds and I can talk about him behind his back. Hello? Oh, there you go. Hey, man, you're on the air, buddy. Oh, I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you, Ben. I couldn't hear your voice.

Yeah, my question is, why do ministers are so hardcore about doctrine or certain beliefs of the scriptures only when the churches' congregations get big, but when they're starting off, they're not so hardcore about it? Dude, I have no idea if that's even true. And I can't speak to that kind of a thing, you know, why this, why that. I don't know what all the situations are. So, you know, I'm telling you, man.

Okay. Like example, like those who teach you can do salvation and go to the start in the congregation small. Well, there'll be nobody left in the congregation because they're starting small.

But if they really enforce that kind of doctrine or teaching, they need the members, whatever they got started in the congregation small. So they're not going to get their attention on that. But Alberto, man, you're just, what you're doing is you're coming up and you're saying here's something you think might be the case. Why is it the case then? And now I want to, you want me to respond to it. Well, I can't because I don't know if what you're saying is accurate.

And so that's it, you know, you need to come up with something a little bit more precise instead of just based on opinion. Okay. Okay. Let me ask you another question.

How come if a pastor reveals somebody's sin, right, in any case God revealed it, but the Bible says, God sees all, since God sees all and has no exception to a person, why doesn't it just reveal everybody else's sin also included because God has no exception to a person? Now you're saying, you gotta realize what you're saying, you're saying, Matt, why does one person do this this way and that way about certain issues that aren't very precise? You're asking such ambiguous, uh, things. I can't respond to them. Okay.

Okay. Another question then, so you can't have ambiguous ones, okay, uh, uh, the King James, but those who believe in the King James only is, and why did they say these Bible verses are missing when reality, the reversals were added and throughout the centuries. And then they claimed that had been missing from the King James Bible. Because they're overly loyal to the King James. They don't need to be.

That's all. They're just convinced that it's the truth. I've talked to many in that camp and they're, they're not very informed. Okay.

They're just not very informed. All right. All right. Okay. All right. Thank you.

All right, Alberto. Keep calling back, buddy. Okay. Appreciate it. Wow.

That's awesome. Let's get to Glenn from North Carolina. Glenn.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man. How are you, brother? I'm doing all right, brother.

What do you got? I told you about a month and a half ago with a question about the centurion Jesus talked, uh, tells him, uh, he's never seen such a great a faith note, not in Israel. And then he goes in the same menu from the East and the West to sit down and talk with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the children of the king of the kingdom be cast out to be weeping, gnashing his teeth. You said you was going to get together with a bunch of your buddy think tank and try to, you couldn't give me an answer. So I was calling to see if you figured it out yet.

Figured what out? Oh, the mini, the phrase, the mini or yeah, because I found something Peter uses the same phrase and I, um, well I just did a search for the phrase, the mini, and it's a first occurrence is in Romans five 15. Okay. And the phrase, the mini is a specific phrase used in the scriptures for if by the transgression of the one, the mini died. So that phrase, the mini deals for everybody who ever lived. So here's what it says for by the transgression of the one, the mini died much more to the grace of God and the gift of grace of the one man, Jesus Christ bound to the mini. And so with that second, the mini, depending on how you interpret, it could be the same group that's the first or a second group called the mini. And uh, that is certainly legitimately understood that way because Paul then in verse 18 talks about the all and uh, then again in verse 19, uh, the mini again. So there's a play on words that he's using.

So I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for. Uh, you know, it does occur in other verses too. Well, what I was asking was they're in heaven obviously. And the mini is it not referring to people of faith? Well, not all of the mini are in heaven.

Some of them haven't even been born yet. Okay. Well, I know that I'm talking about what he's talking about there, that one word. What verse? What verse are we looking at? Which verse are we looking at? I don't know.

Um, I think it was in Matthew when he's dealing with the centurion, there may be more. I'm not sure. Okay.

Uh, centurion. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And this is in Matthew eight, the servant was paralyzed, et cetera. Okay.

And then he was healed. So okay. Now inside of that pericope, what are we looking at? The mini, that's what I was asking because is it not the people with faith? I don't see the phrase, the mini there, so I'm not able to, uh, to see it.

You have to show me always to show the exact verse because then I have to go to it and look. Yeah. And so the mini doesn't occur in the King James even. He doesn't say the mini, he says mini. He doesn't say the mini, he says mini.

Okay. And what verse is that? He says mini will come from the east and the west and will sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the children of the kingdom will be cast out and they'll be weeping and asking a thief and it's the mini, when he says mini, it's referenced in people's faith is what I'm asking. Is that not what he's asking? Yeah.

Those are the, are those who are going to come to faith, then you're going to believe and join with, with the Lord. Yeah. That's what's going on. Another question I had to ask you, cause some of them say he is, some of them say he's not. Is apostle Paul not the 12th apostle? I think he is. Is he not what? I didn't understand.

I'm sorry. Is apostle Paul, is he not the 12th apostle? Some say yes, some say no. Some say Matthias is the 12th because he was chosen by the apostles and others say that he was not because it was under the Old Testament system where they cast lots and so there's debate about it and then some say that that would make 13 apostles, but there are different kinds of apostles, at least seven different kinds in the Bible. So you know, whatever side you want to go with, there's an argument on the other side and I don't know if it's provable how many there are and if Paul was excluded or not. Yeah, what I get told a lot is he's not of the tribe or something, he's a tribe of Israel.

Exactly. That's what I've heard today and I've heard of, I mean, is lots not gambling and I mean it's only used twice and the first time I think is at the cross, they cast lots, they're gambling for Jesus' garment and then used again, whereas they pray, it's me as they pray and ask the Lord to show and then they turn around and they gamble. Well it wasn't a gamble, in that sense it wasn't gambling, it was the casting of the lots to see what God would do and they weren't gambling with it, they were saying, show us using this means.

So that's not the same thing as gambling where you gain something by a certain, you know like throwing dice. So I don't know, you know, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point because it's something I've been aware of for a long time in the discussion but I've never seen anything that's settled it. It's just, some people think 13 is the number of sin, how can you have 13 apostles? You know, so is Paul the apostle, is he number 13 or is he number 12? Well, you know, the disciples themselves picked the other one. Okay, does that mean it was invalid because they cast lots in the Old Testament system? We don't know. But they knew what was going on, they're still called and so then what would that place Paul has, a 13th apostle, maybe it does and there you go.

And he was definitely an apostle and called by the Lord Jesus. So you know, it's just, it's not answerable because the Bible doesn't give us enough information to settle the issue, 12 or 13 or even more. Okay? Okay. All right. Thank you. All right, brother. God bless. All right. And let's get to Mike after the break, is salvation inherited?

Now that is a good question. Hey folks, Two Open Lines, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get to Mike from Virginia.

Mike, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, how are you? Doing all right, brother. Hang on in there, man.

What do you got? So I had a conversation with my son a couple of days ago and he said, dad, let me ask you a question. He said, I'm Christian because you and mom raised me Christian and you raised me Christian because your parents raised you Christian because their parents raised you, and it goes all the way back to generations. What about a kid who for generations is brought up in a different religion, you know, like Buddhism or Muslim or something like that, but he goes, it's almost like they don't really... You broke up.

You broke up. It's almost as if they don't, what? Have a chance.

No, all people have a chance. They suppress the truth of God in their own righteousness. Everybody, Romans 1, 18 and following says that God makes himself known to people, and he does have a way of wooing people. In the Middle East where Muslims are, for example, Jesus is appearing in visions and dreams by the thousands and thousands and thousands and people are converting to Christ there.

There are plenty of tribes that have been cut off from what we call civilization who have embedded in their cultures. There's a gospel message woven into varying things in their history. God has his way of communicating the truth to people. So someone born, for example, in a Mormon family, and if they die Mormon, they go to hell. Well, the thing is that they still have the responsibility to believe the truth and not a lie, and they have the obligation to find that because they just do, and God will communicate to them at various times the truths that they will either reject or accept. And they freely, freely are responsible for rejecting what it is that God has offered to them. It could be by hearing me on the radio, hearing Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson on the radio in Salt Lake City picking up a track off the ground and reading something that's true, and they're not believing it. So when we talk about people who didn't hear this, they didn't hear that, well, no, we can't say that. God has his way of communicating the truth to all people, and he does. Okay?

That's what the Bible says in Romans 1, 18 through 31. Okay. You there?

Maybe we lost him. Yep. Thank you. All right.

No, that's good. Thank you so much. All right, brother. God bless. Okay.

Let's get on with Jose from North Carolina. Welcome. You're on the air, brother. Hey, good afternoon.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure. So my question is once someone arrives in heaven, what do they do for eternity? I think there's checkers tournaments. I'm not sure. Cool.

So yeah, I don't know. No, the Bible doesn't say, except to say that we can't even imagine how good it's going to be. Now, in my opinion, the greatest good is being in the presence of Jesus and God himself, and I do firmly believe that the experience of his presence is so incredibly ominous and wonderful that once in it, you're not going to want to leave. It's just going to be self-satisfying or completely satisfying in the fact of being in his presence. It's going to be wondrously awesome, and I just don't see us saying, oh, I need to go do something now, walk over here, and leave this. Are you kidding? It could be that kind of a thing going on.

So I don't know, but I know that the best thing I can think of, it's going to be better. And my idea of something really good, really wonderful for me is just sitting next to a calm ocean front in hammocks and a cool breeze and bright sun and watching the beautiful waves and the creatures and the fish. To me, it's a delight, and to me, it's just incredibly relaxing.

And that's nothing, nothing compared to his presence. Some people, it's playing sports. Some people, it might be skydiving, who knows? We have our things, but whatever you think is the best, most wonderful, it's nothing compared to what's going to really be there.

I agree. I mean, I've read as much, whenever it comes to these things, I remember that there's some leisure time that Jesus has with some of the apostles, but when it comes to what happens when we get there, it's exactly as you've said, if we will be in his presence, we'll be in as he is, and for all the descriptions of the consequences of avoiding even getting there, it's just like, it will be paradise. The reason that question came up is because the previous conversation, Mormonism came up, and they're all about work, work, work, and so forth. From my experience with them, and it's just so, but yeah, what you said is exactly what I've read. It's going to be better than what we can imagine.

Oh yeah. You know, and you brought the Mormons, I mean, their idea of heaven is being with their families. Now, I'm not saying our families aren't wonderful and we want to be with them, but to say that heaven is going to be being with our families means they have no clue who God really is. I mean, to think that this human level of stuff is what true heaven is going to be is just a testament to how little they understand about the infinite God. They don't have an understanding of who he is, and so they think things like that, and people who are far away from God, their pleasures of heaven usually are more carnal, more self-centered, and that's an example of it.

Yeah, yeah, and that's really sad, but anyway, thank you very much. Yeah, I'm sure it's just simple, sublime, and just beyond beautiful that we can think of here. Well, can I, before you go, can I share something with you, and this is just an experience, but when I was 17, I was saved, but the salvation that I experienced was not just a, hey, I walk up front, I feel good, and I don't know I'm saved, it was a tremendous experience of the super intense presence of God's holiness, and it reduced me to just a bag of sobbing tears in the presence of undulating, indwelling, overshadowing holiness, and I remember it, and the only thing I could do was keep my face to the ground.

That was it. That was the only option I had, because it was the only thing I would allow myself to do, because that's all I could do, and I've never forgotten that experience, and the presence of the Lord was there, and forgiveness came, and so in a small way of experience, I do believe it was really legitimately Him, I've experienced something incredible, and when I think of carrying that into Heaven, and experiencing God on that level, I can subjectively believe that it will be completely enough, because God is completely sufficient in Himself, we won't have any needs outside of Him. That's not to say we won't be able to go to Andromeda Galaxy, I don't know how it's all going to work, but it's going to be Him, and He is sufficient, and we don't need anything else, and this is another example of how cults, because they have a false God, their idea of Heaven is not based upon Him, but upon something else, you know, families in Mormonism, or Paradise Earth in Jehovah's Witnesses, or in Islam, 70 virgins, these are the theologies of men created for sensuality, and personal experience, and then salt and pepper to make it more appealing to a broader group of people as the decades progress, and that's what the case is with them, but in Scripture, no, He is our reward, and He is going to be our presence, that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly as it is in the book, I had to ask a question, and it's a very broad brush, and everything like that, but it's just very important, and I'm so thankful for your ministry, and your insight. Oh, well, praise God, you know, praise God, yeah, that's right, He is, that's all I want in Heaven, I don't need anything, I just need to be with Him, that's all, that's it, He's enough. All right, all right, brother, okay, brother, God bless, all right, hey, let's get to Noel from Virginia, Noel, welcome, you're on the air, hey, Matt, how are you, I'm okay, I'm hanging in there, what do you got, so, just off of what that caller was saying about Matthew 8 11, where he was like, I tell you, many will come from east and west, they're inclined at tables Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the kingdom of Heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into outer darkness, I just kind of wanted to give an answer on that, so I believe that Jesus was talking about the Gentiles, because I can't remember the other verse, but remember when Jesus was talking about that I have a flock, or I have other sheep, John 10, right, so I think he was pronouncing here kind of a judgment on the, like the sons of the covenant at that time, of like the old covenant, the Israelites, and he was saying that others, you know, the Gentiles will be coming and reclining at the table, so I just kind of wanted to clarify on that. Yeah, that's what makes sense to me, has to do with the Gentiles as well, and we know that's prophesied in Genesis 12 3, in you all the nations shall be blessed, and that's called the gospel by Paul in Galatians 3 8, so absolutely, yeah, it's the others, besides the Jews, the covenantal people of Israel, yep. Also, I wanted to see if you could do a study after you finish James on the attributes of God. People have asked me about that, yes. I really think that would be beneficial for me personally, because I realized, like, I know a lot about God, but I have a hard time, like, knowing God, and actually Donna, I'm sure she's listening, was saying, to get to know God, you need to know his attributes, what he's like, and all that, so I think it would be really beneficial if you did a study like that.

Yeah, actually they were talking about that at the Bible study, and we're having the Bible study tonight at the house here in a couple of hours, and so I can ask them, because as we approach the end of James in a week or two or three, I can ask them what they want, we talked about the Trinity, but they also talked about the attributes, so maybe we'll do that. Hey, we're out of time, wow, there you go. Alright, we'll talk to you later, well, God bless. Hey folks, sorry about that, sorry Kit for waiting so long, and Jamar, also Jamar, and may the Lord bless you, and by his grace folks, we'll be back on here tomorrow, and we'll talk to them. Have a great evening.