Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

If you want to give me a call, dial 877-207-2276. I answer difficult questions, talk about stuff, teach people how to think a little bit more critically about scripture, teach a biblical theology, let's see what else do I do besides annoy people. Well, do debates, write books, and we discussed the issue of issues, I should say.

Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, evolution. I was listening to some people talk about evolution today in the chat room. And, you know, you've got to take a turn to get in there. And I said, hey, you know, can I get in there and add to what you guys are saying because there's some things you don't know and, you know, just add to it.

And that never happened. People like to talk, but they don't like to study. And I always recommend, that's going to say, you know, you need to read these books on the other side of the evolutionary discussion.

But anyway, you know, that's just life. All right, hey, look, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get on the line with Anthony from Virginia.

Anthony, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, Matt, I wanted to talk with you about Luke 16, the story of the rich man and Lazarus. And I've heard you say before that when it talks about the beggar being at Abraham's bosom or side, that Abraham represents sort of like paradise and not really the actual biblical Abraham.

Is that something I heard you say or is that not accurate? Abraham's bosom, bosom is a chest. They didn't all go to his chest in his body. So Abraham's bosom is just an expression referencing the real Abraham, but it's calling Abraham's bosom. I don't know why. I'd be interested to know the history of how that word phrase developed in relationship to that. But it's just another term for paradise. So you're saying that when it says Abraham's bosom, it's not talking about the beggar being like with the biblical Abraham in heaven. You're saying that Abraham's bosom represents… Hold on.

I'm going to do a little lesson teaching here. Did I say that? I'm not being antagonistic. Notice what I did say because this is an issue of logic and communication and things like that. I said it was a metaphor used about it's not really Abraham's chest. You said, oh, are you saying that he didn't go with Abraham? The conclusion doesn't necessitate itself out of the premise. It's a small point of logic.

I want people to start thinking, okay. So anyway, no, it doesn't. It doesn't mean he wasn't with Abraham, but it does say that because Abraham said… Child, you said during your time… Actually, what's interesting is he spoke to the man in Hades, which I think is interesting. Because in verse 23, in Hades lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. What does that mean, in his bosom? And he cried out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and Lazarus. He said to Lazarus to dip his finger in the water and Abraham said, you know, you talk to him. So they could communicate.

So other than that, I'm not really sure what's going on. Well, I was just confused because I remember you at some point in the past saying that it wasn't really Abraham's bosom. It was a metaphor for like heaven or paradise. And that confused me because clearly Abraham is speaking as an individual in this text and I was just confused. But I said Abraham's bosom. A bosom is a chest area in a body, a human body. There's shoulders, there's arms, there's legs. The bosom is referred to basically the chest.

So he wasn't in the chest of Abraham. That's what I was saying. It's a metaphor. It's an expression. Well, I think what it's basically trying to say is the beggar was like being held or embraced by.

I think that's what most people interpret that to mean is that he wasn't. Okay. All right. And I had another question for you if you have time.

Sure. No problem. I didn't tell this to the call screener. It's okay. It's all right. Yeah, it's about, I've also heard you say that, and again, none of these issues has anything to do with is really, in my opinion, essential doctrine. I'm just trying to clear some things up that I've heard you say.

Okay. You said you, when John the Baptist baptized Jesus, he did it by sprinkling? Well, this is my view, and my view, I'm going to tell you, is not the popular view within Christianity. And it's within orthodoxy, but it's not the popular view. And it says in Acts 1 5, Jesus says, John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. All right. When we look at the phrase baptized with the Holy Spirit, and you analyze what it is, you find out that it's in reference to the pouring of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is said in the Old Testament to be poured forth. That's just how it's used. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Are you familiar with that at all? I'm not. I'm going to listen to your explanation. Okay, so I'll tell you what, let me do, I've got my notes open. There we go. And I'm going to do a, here, I'll find the verses where I'll show you about the pouring forth of the Spirit, okay, from the Old Testament.

And here we go, come on, let me get to it. So, you know, for example, in Joel 2 28, God prophesies, I'll pour out my Spirit. In verse 29, I'll pour forth my Spirit. And Peter quotes that in Acts 2 17 and 18. He says that he'll pour forth his Spirit, and he goes to verse 29, pour forth his Spirit. And let's see if I can find the other ones. There's a whole bunch, actually, I need to find it really quickly. In Acts 10 44-48, they're speaking in tongues as a demonstration of the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles.

Here we go, I got it. So Isaiah 32 15, until the Spirit is poured out upon us. Isaiah 44 3, I'll pour out my Spirit on your offspring. Ezekiel 39 29, I will have poured out my Spirit on the house of Israel. We already went through Joel 2 28 29, 2 17, 2 18, and 2 33, Acts 2 33, the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth. I already went through Acts 10 45, the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles. And Acts 3 5-6, it says, he saved us not on the basis of deeds which he had done in righteousness, but according to his mercy by the washing and regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out upon us. And so, that's just how the Holy Spirit is said to be, by being poured, right? Would you agree?

I agree. Okay, so Acts 1 5, John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So what does the word baptized mean in the context of baptized with the Holy Spirit? Wait, say that again, please.

I'm sorry. Okay, so John baptized with water, you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So what does it mean to be baptized with the Holy Spirit according to scripture? It means what? To have the Spirit poured upon you, I guess. That makes sense, doesn't it? So, let's look at it this way. John will immerse you with water, but you'll be poured on with the Holy Spirit. Is that consistent? Do we say John baptized with water means immersion?

Let's go. John immersed with water, you'll be immersed with the Holy Spirit. That's not the biblical position. That the Holy Spirit is poured on. I understand that, but I don't understand how that deals with the question of the method that John the Baptist used to baptize Jesus. Okay, so John baptized with water, you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. If this word means the same thing, then we have a problem. If John immersed with water, you'll be immersed with the Holy Spirit. That doesn't work. If John poured with water, you'll be poured with the Holy Spirit.

That can work. Furthermore, Jesus said to John that the requirement of his baptism was according to the law. To fulfill all righteousness, Matthew 3.15. And if you go to Numbers chapter 4, Leviticus chapter 8, and Exodus 29, in those three chapters you can see some of the things that needed to be done to a priest or to a man in order for him to enter into the priesthood. And Jesus was a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. So when Jesus says that his baptism had to fulfill the Old Testament, where do you go to find that it's fulfilled? You'll find out that at his baptism, God the Father said, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Well, that's part of the requirement of a verbal blessing given to a man to become a priest. Jesus is a high priest. He had to have oil applied to him.

That seems to be representative of the Holy Spirit. You go to 1 John 2.27 for that. He had to be 30 years of age. Jesus, of course, was 30 when he started his ministry. And he had to be sprinkled with water.

And that was Numbers 8.7. And so, if we're to be consistent and we look at Jesus fulfilling the Old Testament, there's no place where it says anyone who goes into the priesthood, that's what Jesus was doing there, and he does it by immersion. It's by the sprinkling of water.

That's the command. So, I have a question about that. It says Jesus came up out of the water. How do you, when John the Baptist baptized him, so how do you deal with that? Okay, when you go to Acts, the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip, it says in Acts 3, or 836, they went on the road, they came to the water, and eunuch said, look, water, what prevents me from being baptized?

Me from being baptized. And they got out of the chariot, and they went down, and in verse 39, when they came up out of the water. If you think the phrase came up out of the water means he was immersed, then when it says they, it's in reference to Philip and the eunuch, then both of them were immersed in the water. When they came up out of the water, it doesn't make any sense. You can be up to the water, in your water, to your knees. You're in the water. People make the mistake, and they just do this all the time. Oh, they came up out of the water, it means he was immersed.

No, it doesn't. It could be possibly that he was immersed. It could also be means up to his waist. When I was in Southern California, my little girls would go out of the water, out on the beach, we'd keep a good sharp eye on them, they'd be up to their ankles, their knees, we'd say, come up out of the water, get out of the water. It's the same phraseology, and the proof of this is in Acts 3.39, when they came up out of the water. If you want to say came up out of the water means immersed, then Philip was also immersed with the eunuch. And it doesn't make any sense. Okay?

Okay, so you think Jesus walked into the Jordan, but then John just sprinkled water when he was up to his waist in water. Is that kind of how you envision it? Yes. Alright. Now, think about this. Think about this.

Let's talk about it a little bit, okay? Three thousand people were added to the church. The twelve disciples in Acts chapter 1, they were gathered, Acts 1 and 2, the twelve disciples were there. Three thousand were added. They're not going to go outside the building to a place where they have a fountain in order to baptize, because that would make filthy water, that's a town drinking water, you don't do that.

You had to go someplace else to the Jordan River or some local body. So it would have taken them a couple hours, three hours, to walk to that place to get baptized. So this is during the night, right? So when we get back, I'm going to put some math on this and I'll show you some stuff to get you to think, okay? So hold on, okay buddy? Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. This should get interesting. There's a lot of stuff people don't know about this.

People assume so many things, but is the assumption warranted in Scripture? That's my question. Hey, we'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you're intrigued by this discussion, I hope you stay tuned, take a call and ask more questions. Let's get back to Anthony. Are you still there?

I'm here. Okay, so as I was saying, 3,000 people were baptized, right? They're not going to be able to do it in the upper room because you have to transport water sufficient to immerse, if by immersion, to immerse a person. And it takes like 500 pounds of water, five or six, I did the math on it. There were smaller people back then. So they're going to go to the river.

If 12 disciples went to a river to baptize, if they were to do 3,000 for 8 hours non-stop, that means they had to be in the water for 8 hours and they would have to baptize a person every 2 minutes and 20 seconds. I've been to the Jordan, it's on the cold side. Do you think they'd be okay after 8 hours standing in the water in hypothermia? Probably not.

Probably not. Well, what if they were only up to their knees? Well, then you've got a problem of their backs giving out because they could dip someone down, they might weigh 100 pounds going down and then their clothing is sopping wet on the way up. That's like 103 pounds, 104, 105 pounds of water, of weight total.

They go down and up for 8 hours? I'm sorry, it just doesn't add up. It does make sense, as it was in the Old Testament, that they would take hyssop branches and sprinkle people. That's how it was done. Also, it says the whole region of Jerusalem and Judea was going out to John the Baptist to be baptized. So I did some research on that.

And I don't have that in my notes, I'm going to do that and fill in that blank of my notes. But I did research, there was like 200 or 300,000 people in the area. It says the whole region was going out to be baptized by John. Well, okay, if that's the case, let's see.

I'm looking for the reference, but it's no big deal. Because it says all of Judea and Jerusalem. Let's just say 300,000 people. Well, when it says all of them were going out there, we know it doesn't mean every single individual. But it does mean an awful lot of people were going out there to see John the Baptist. A lot. If he's only baptizing, let's just say 10,000 out of 300,000 people, and he's doing this for a year, the math means he'd be extremely busy baptizing 10,000 people.

You know, if you were to do this, like I'm doing this right now. 10,000, okay, divided by 365 days, that's 27 a day. 27 a day, that's just 10,365 days.

That's no rest. And that means roughly one every three hours. 27 a day, that's roughly one an hour. A little bit more than one an hour.

That's all the time. That's 24 hours. But it's not going to be 24 hours. It's going to be if we say eight hours. Well, how is he going to do this in eight hours? It's 27, it's less than 30, it's going to be 50, 60 people. We're talking, you know, one every five minutes, 10 minutes, 365 days. It doesn't add up. And that's only if you do 10,000 people. So when you start looking at this, you go, wait a minute, these things aren't adding up if it was by immersion. It just doesn't add up. If Jesus had to fulfill the Old Testament law and he was sprinkled.

In fact, I can show you where, let's see. Baptism, as for me, I baptize you with water. But he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

That's the same word in Greek. That's Matthew 3.11. The baptism of the Spirit there is the pouring forth of the Spirit.

John 1.33. The one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit, there it is again, the pouring forth. And then it says when they came to the marketplace, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves. The word cleanse is baptize.

The exact same word from the other two. They baptize you with the Holy Spirit. They have to baptize themselves. They have to cleanse themselves.

Does that mean in the market that they take all their clothes off, they go get immersed in water? Of course not. See, people just, in my opinion, what's happened is people just bought into this hook line and sinker. And they don't do any cross-examination of it. I do think that when you, if you just focus on the Gospel accounts, it does appear as though immersion is being, again, I want to go back. Does it? I don't think this is essential doctrine.

But does it? Well, Jesus clearly walks, well, because of, I guess the traditional depictions of people being baptized in rivers, they're fully immersed. So one would assume that John the Baptist was using it. Right, that's traditional.

I mean, I can challenge people. Is it biblical? Well, they assume it is. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. But is it? That's the question I just asked.

I do this to people all the time. If you go to, I think it's Hebrews, and you read, it's really interesting what happens. Oh, it's the wrong one there. And you go to Hebrews. I think it's Hebrews, let's do it this way.

It talks, in Hebrews 6, 2, and Hebrews, here it is, Hebrews 9, 10, okay? What's really interesting, it says, since it talks, and you should read Hebrews 9, and it talks about sprinkling. And it talks about the, verse 13, if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled, sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctified for the cleansing of the flesh.

How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal offering, offered to cleanse you? Well, if you know the biblical theology of the temple and redemptive work, the blood was sprinkled. That's how it was in the temple.

It was sprinkled on you. On Yom Kippur, the high priest would go in and sprinkle blood on the mercy seat. And people were sprinkled with blood, sprinkled with oil, sprinkled with water. And this is what he's talking about in Hebrews 9.

But this is what he says. Verse 8, the Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way to the holy place, this is Old Testament tabernacle, at the temple. The way the holy place has not yet been disclosed, while the outer tabernacle still standing, which is a symbol for the present time, according to both gifts and sacrifices, are offered, which cannot make the worshiper perfect in his conscience, since they relate to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation, when they appear. The regulations and the washings and the drinks and things like this, it talks about the issue of having oil, water, blood sprinkled on you, washing your hands and things like this. And the word washings is baptismos.

And it's in reference to the context of sprinkling and the application of stuff. It's right there in scripture. Well, there's an argument there, I can see that.

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't think this is essential doctrine, but it is interesting, and I think it's right to try to get it right from a biblical standpoint. All right, well thank you for your explanation. It makes you think though, doesn't it?

It does, yeah. That's good enough. I guess I'll have to think about it a little bit more. All right, we'll see you.

God bless. Yeah, I know it's a little bit controversial, folks, but what I do with this is I shake people up. You know, how much of what we've been taught is just something we just assume is true? I'm not saying doubt everything, but I am saying, you know, check.

Just do some checking. You'll start to go, wait a minute. And it's what we should do. I teach people how to do that. I want them to do that.

So praise God. Hey, we have three open lines. Give me a call.

877-207-2276. We'll be right back after these messages. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

I hope that was entertaining, if not irritating. So we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Spencer from North Carolina, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. I just had a question about maybe what the Bible says about people's energy or maybe if it references something about energy healing. Yeah, that's occult stuff. The Bible doesn't talk about energy healing. All right.

Are you there? Say that again. The Bible does not talk about energy healing. It's New Age occult. Right.

That's kind of what I figured. What about the Bible references anything about energy? You know how when people talk about people, that person has such a great energy? The power of God, the great energy. You've got to be very, very, very, very, very careful because it's New Age philosophy that's creeping into the Christian church.

It's making a comeback. In fact, I just released two or three, four hours ago a series of quotes from the Physics of Heaven book. I want to call it a New Age book, but it's a socio-Christian book written in support of New Apostolic Reformation theology.

So here's some quotes. Help us bring God's kingdom to this earth. The Lord is ready to use sound, light, and energy in ways we never dreamed. Or how about all the contributors in the book to chapters sense that God is on the verge of releasing something new on the earth and that the new thing somehow involves vibrations, frequencies, energy, sound, light, and taking quantum leaps of faith. God used faith, substance, and word energy to create the universe. See what happens is you take a word like energy and it's used to work and things like that.

It's in the Bible. Then what they'll do, they can go back and say, well, God said let there be light. Well, that's energy. Well, he spoke. That means energy's in his words. And we can say those words, therefore we can have energy.

Okay? So this is in that book. Peter carried the spirit of God within him. He carried the original power of let there be light energy, power, light within him.

That's what we should be doing. You see, you've got to be careful because everything is energy at the foundational level of existence and all energy vibrates at a certain frequency. Well, if it vibrates at a frequency and you can get in tune with the frequency, then you can control the energy. It's occultism. And so this is just occultism. It's New Age idiocy that these people do not have the sense to stay away from. In fact, what they do say, and I'll just say this because I'm part of what's going on, what they'll say is that the New Age has things that are good in it.

We just have to learn how to separate it from the bad. So what they're saying is we can start looking at the New Age to see what things are biblical. Let's look at the New Age. It's not let's examine the word of God.

Let's look at the New Age and see what's biblical in the New Age. How about this? What's that?

What's that? Are you there? Can I lose you?

Here's another quote from that. I don't know if we lost him for a second. At the end of the meeting, an apostolic leader spoke and said, God is beginning to release kingdom building codes. I looked up to see an angel standing right in front of me. I'm not an angel type of guy, but suddenly there was an angel speaking to me saying, I'm sent by God to answer your questions about the energy crisis. I'm the energy angel.

The angel went back with me to my hotel room and began talking to me about energy. Can you hear me now? This is when you say they don't have all their paws in the litter box. Something's wrong with them. I just wish they'd just stop. I just wish they would stop.

Stop being dumb because that's what it is. All right. Let's get in the lines here with Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina, like 12 or 15 different categories so we can go in and look at them. I want to say thanks to, I don't want to say the whole name. I guard people's privacy, but Tracy, I want to thank you for that, and Carl, and Michael, and let's see who else. We have one person, Tracy.

You really get a lot of stuff there. Tim, and let's see, Blake, Jim. A lot of people have been sending stuff in. There's Brian, and Jeanette, and Jeff, and all kinds of stuff. Roger, and Steve, look at all this.

I'm only half with you on the list. There's a lot of people who have been sending me stuff, and I really appreciate it. Please continue to send me documentation.

You can send it to info at karm.org. I've got to tell you, though, it takes a while for me to go through all the stuff. Let's see if that works. Okay. I don't know if we can be heard right now. I've got to check with the computer guy, the producer, to see if he can hear me back online.

I rebooted, and I'm in the right connection. Yes. Okay. I guess we're good. All right. Well, it happens, folks. The real radio happens sometimes. Sorry about the other guy hung up on.

I thought we just lost you. Call back if you want. Let's get to Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina. Patrick, welcome. You're on the air.

Hello, Matt. I want to talk a little bit about the baptism thing you were speaking about. Okay. In John 1, 31-34, if you could read that, I believe that scripture explains why John the Baptist baptized in water. Okay. Do not recognize him, but manifested Israel came baptizing in water. Yeah, he did baptize in water.

We totally agree with that. Yeah. No, but if you read all 31-34, you'll see that… Let me do it. John testified, saying, I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, remained on him. I do not recognize him. He sent me to baptize in water, upon whom you see the Spirit descending remaining on him. This is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.

I myself have seen it, testified. Yep, there it is. No problem. Yeah, because it says that God had given him instructions that the one the dove comes down is the one who will baptize in the Holy Spirit. Right. So, I believe John was putting people under water looking for a dove because he had to testify that Jesus was the Son of God, and I think that's what the baptism was all about.

Here's a question. Does it say he was immersing him? It doesn't. It says he was baptizing. And people say baptism means immersion.

Not always. Well, it had to be. If it says Jesus came up out of the water, it almost has to be an immersion. No, it doesn't.

Not at all. That's not logically necessary. You can walk into water up to your hips and be in the water and come out of the water without being fully immersed. And as I was saying in Acts chapter 8, when it talks about the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip, it says they both came up out of the water. So would that be fair to say all baptisms today should be sprinkled? No, I didn't say that. I'm just saying... No, I know, but... What I am saying is...

If Jesus got sprinkled, wouldn't it be fair to say everybody should be sprinkled? Not necessarily. Well, let me answer. Let me answer. Let me answer. Let me answer.

You keep asking me questions, I start to answer and you keep jumping in again. So, one at a time, okay? It does not necessitate that every individual must therefore be sprinkled or poured upon. I'm just saying that in the Scriptures, you can't make the case that baptism only means immersion. That's what I'm trying to say, okay? But when Jesus was baptized, did the heavens open up and the dove appear and land on Jesus? Yes. Okay, so that goes along with Scripture, John 1.33, where the one who sent me to baptize told me, the one where the Spirit descends on, so John was making a... By seeing that done, he was completing his testimony and for that reason is why Jesus wouldn't baptize John the Baptist because Jesus had to let John baptize him in order to see the dove.

No, no, no, no. It wasn't so that he could see the dove. The reason he was baptized, Jesus says, is to fulfill all righteousness. That's Matthew 3.15. To fulfill means Old Testament.

To fulfill the righteousness. So you're saying that Jesus is a high priest of what church? He's a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 6.20 and Hebrews 7.25 says so.

Okay, so Jesus had to go through works in order to be a high priest and son of God. Hold on. He says where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 6.20. Okay, so hold on because you've got to submit to scripture, okay? So hold on. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages. Get back with Patrick.

It should be interesting. We have one open line. 877-207-2276. Be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Patrick, you still there? Yeah, I'm here. All right. Okay, so, okay, you there? So what do you think of that? I'm here.

All right. Well, Hebrews, what did you say? Hebrews 6?

6.20? Hebrews 6.20 says Jesus is a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. This is why he was baptized, to fulfill Old Testament law requirements. Some people say it was to identify with sinners.

That's not the case. He said to fulfill all righteousness, to fulfill the Old Testament. And if you go to Leviticus 8, Numbers 4, Exodus 29, you look at those chapters, you'll see that he did those things necessary, in part, because not every individual thing is mentioned, to enter into the priesthood. It's very simple.

I've written an article on it, had all documentation there. Okay? Well, in John 1.34, it said that John had baptized Jesus, and then he had fulfilled his testimony. So that testimony is brought up in Acts 5.31-34.

You're jumping all over. But here's my question. You went to Hebrews. Yes, but I was showing how they related. You're not showing how they related. Because John 1.34 doesn't deal with baptism. Yes, it does. If you could read John 5.31-34, you'll understand.

I will? Really? So what's your point?

What are you trying to say? Well, my point is that John the Baptist water baptized to find Jesus, the Son of God. He saw the dove, and that was it. That's the reason he was baptized. I agree. Jesus' baptism was not... I agree. He had to baptize Jesus.

The question is, did the baptism constitute immersion, sprinkling, or pouring? That's the question. No, that's beside the point. See, what you've got to understand... That's what we're talking about. Okay, we're going to move on, Patrick. Wait, one more thing.

Okay. We have callers waiting, so we're going to get on the callers. Let's get to Todd from Ohio. Hey, Todd, welcome. You're on the air.

Well, thank you. How are you doing? Doing all right, man. Hanging in there.

What do you got? I'm not exactly sure how to phrase the question, but I'm just going to put it out like this. Sure. If a guy from 500 B.C. is looking at his calendar, what year does it say? Oh, I don't know, because they didn't have calendars. Well, assuming they did. But my question is, how did the B.C.

happen? I mean, after Jesus came about, did everything get rewritten backwards for, you know... No. People would have different... People had different dating systems in different cultures, you know, like from the day of the Exodus, or it might be a different culture the day when a certain battle happened, you know, 18 moons or 18 suns, whatever it might be. What we see in this issue, what we're talking about with calendar, is when Western civilization began to coalesce and calendar times and dates became more necessary, and so they just codified it all and used Jesus' birth as the year zero. B.C. is before Christ and, you know, afterwards.

That's all it was. So there had to be some kind of time period between all the events in the B.C. period.

Yeah, of course. Well, I was just curious how, I mean, you know, you can look at the Bible and the B.C. and say this is X amount of years. I've always been confused on how they came up with those timelines. Counting backwards, basically. They didn't count backwards.

No, no, no. The writers would say that this happened. The archaeologists and modern people would look at this and say, this happened like the decree to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem was March 14th, 445 B.C. Well, how do they know that? Because, I don't know how they know it. Because archaeologists can date certain events and they relate it, like tree rings, you know.

Tree rings related to here, they can cross-reference certain things. And then they say, well, it was 320 years before this one event. And this one event was 28 years after that event. But that other event occurred 300 years before this event. And this event we have timed. This event we know what happened exactly when it was. So then they just do the math and they say, oh, that happened in 445 B.C.

It's that kind of a thing. It wasn't that the people at 445 B.C. were going, hey, it's 445 B.C. It wasn't like that.

Exactly. I was always curious, people who lived in that time period, if they had a date, what would it be? Well, they knew how old they were. They said it was 20 years old, 100 years old.

They knew that. They just measured it by a system that we don't use. Like the Muslims go by the moons and we go by the sun and some other things. And then there's the issue of why is it 360 degrees? It looks like it was because the calendars all over the world were 360 days. And then roughly around 701 B.C. there was a change in the calendars all over the world. So basically nobody knew what year they were born back then? No, they knew what year they were born in the year they were born in. They didn't relate it to the future idea of B.C. They just knew what year they were born. 18 years ago is the year they were born.

They knew that. Okay. Alright.

Alright, thank you very much. Alright, man. God bless. Okay, let's get to Nick from Charlotte who we just lost, eternal salvation. You want to talk about that? Let's get on with Alberto. Okay, Alberto. You're on, buddy. What do you got, man? Yeah, okay. Good evening, Matt Slade.

A bunch of questions. Why do Christians only want to disprove a Christian? It's not a Christian. Only the moment you get saved. But when you're in the world... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're going way too fast. I don't understand what you're saying. Okay, repeat it. Why do Christians what? Why do Christians always try to disprove you're not a child of God or a Christian the moment you get saved?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You made a premise. I have to address the premise first. You said, why do Christians always try and prove people are not saved? That's not the case.

Well, no, no, no. Listen to me. You're not a child of God or a Christian.

But when you're lost in the world, they never oppose it. But the moment you said the Lord, and you recognize the Lord or announce something, then here comes the attack. Alberto, I'm not following what you're saying. I don't understand.

Well, what does that mean? When I was in the world lost, no Christian ever opposed me about it. But the moment I said, Lord, here comes the opposition, trying to say, oh, you're not a child of God, or you're not this, you're not...

Even the church members, oh, you know, the pastors, you know. Alberto, Alberto, Alberto, I'm not following. I'm not following what you're saying. You seem to ask a question where a narration is inserted into a question, a narration of a bunch of events at 80 miles an hour. Okay, all right. It's difficult, okay? Okay. Well, why don't we try to disprove it when the moment you said the Lord, not before then? I don't understand what you're asking.

You're not precise. Why are you talking about this who's not a child of God? Who? Who? Believers or believers. Wait a minute.

Believers or unbelievers. Alberto. Alberto.

Alberto. We've got to move along. We've got to move along. Okay, I don't know what's going on. Maybe I had a little bit of coffee.

I'm not able to follow what he's saying and trying to get him to slow down and focus, but it's not the case. Let's get to Monty from Raleigh, North Carolina. Monty, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, peace be unto you, my brother.

Thank you. I was wondering on Resurrection Day, and I've been trying to find the scripture to support the question. Jesus is on the cross.

Obviously God isn't heaven because Jesus says, why have you forsaken me? Where can we place the Holy Spirit that day? Where was the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is by definition everywhere. Okay. Okay. So then I guess your answer would be that he was there with Jesus on the cross?

For us? Well, there's different senses in which we can understand what it means to be somewhere in the sense of God's existence. He can be, in a sense, localized in my heart in that he is indwelling me the way he's not indwelling an unbeliever. But he's also at the same time everywhere in the universe, and I don't know how those work. And so the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is divine and divinity has the property of omnipresence, then we have to say that the Holy Spirit is everywhere. I see.

Yes, sir, I appreciate that. Jesus was physically on the cross, which places him in time and space on the cross. And then God would have obviously been in heaven. It seems as though there would have been some idea about the presence of the Spirit. But if you say he was using that context, I understand. Well, don't forget.

Maybe there's one or two like this. That's all right. It's worth discussing. Jesus, when he was baptized, the Holy Spirit came down upon him as a dove. Not in the form of a dove, but as a dove.

It kind of just flittered down. And so that seems to imply a kind of a localization. We cannot say that the Holy Spirit stopped being everywhere all the time and was located in that little whatever it was that came down as a dove.

As a dove flies down, that's what it was saying. And so we can't say that. So there's two senses which would deal with the presence of the Holy Spirit there. One is there seems to be a kind of a localization or a focus. And the other is that, well, by his nature, he has to be everywhere all the time. Furthermore, this gets more interesting when we look at the natures of Christ. He has two natures, divine and human. So did the divine nature stop being everywhere?

It cannot be. Otherwise, the attribute, the property of omnipresence was no longer part of the word. But that can't be because properties emanate from the essence or the ontos. And the essence of God is his divinity, which logically has necessary properties, one of them being omnipresence. So that would mean that since Jesus had two natures, the divine and the human, the divine nature had to have omnipresence. The human nature did not have omnipresence. Now this is where there's a mystery.

We have paradoxes here. How can we have two seemingly opposite things? Omnipresence and not omnipresence both abide in the one person of Christ. The solution seems to be to say that the attributes of both natures are ascribed to the single person. And yet, at the same time, he emptied himself.

Philippians 2, 5-8. So we don't know what it means when Jesus emptied himself. And we don't know to what extent the relationship is of the properties of both natures in the one person. We can't solve it because God doesn't tell us.

And so what we do is we say, he had those attributes, they're ascribed to the single person, and yet he spoke to the single person. And then we get into other things that relate to this. I deal with these questions semi-regularly.

So that's why I know about them. Okay, Matt. Just one thing, because I know we're going to wrap up. What is the Greek word for baptism? Baptismos. But basically the verb form is baptismos.

The verb form is baptizo. And what does that mean? It means what it means in context. Call back tomorrow and we'll go over some of the context. It can mean washing, it can mean immersion, it can mean pouring, it can mean different things in different contexts.

It can be a figurative use as well. Okay. Hey folks, we're out of time. The Lord bless you. We hope that was an enjoyable show. By his grace, we'll be back on there tomorrow. And we'll talk to you then. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.