Matt Slick Live

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The standard is perfection. So when we go to Philippians 3, 9, maybe have found in him not having a righteousness of our own, where he says my own, derived from the law. It's not in anything that we do from the law. A righteousness of my own, he says, derived from the law.

That is what he does. But, by contrast, that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. So we have a righteousness that comes from God based on faith.

How do we know that? If you go to Romans chapter 4, Paul says this also, What then shall we say that Abraham our forefather corn of the flesh is found? For if Abraham was justified by works, that has to do with the law, then he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

That's what it says. He believed God and the faith that he had is credited as righteousness. Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but what is due. Romans 4 and 5 says, But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Sometimes what the false religious people want to do and religious systems want to do is say, No man, you don't understand. It's not us doing the works. It's God doing the works in us. And so therefore we don't take credit for the works.

Well, really? So when you eat a sandwich, is it you actually doing the eating or is it God doing the eating in you? No, it doesn't make any sense. So when you're honest, is that you being honest or is it God being in you? Well, it's you doing it. Well then don't tell me that it's God's work in you, that he's the one doing it, because you're the one doing it.

If you're not the one doing it, then it cannot be credited or taken away from your account by the action of your responsibility of what it is you do. So what the false religious people like to do is say, they don't word it this way, but what's happening is we're justified right before God by our faith and the goodness of the works that we do. But those goodness of the works that we do are really God's work in us. So it's not really us, it's the works that God's doing.

And it's a load of crud because it's stupidity. Because what they're saying is, look, God's doing it in me, I'm not really doing it, he gets all the credit. Well then you're not doing anything. If it's you not doing it, he can't give you that which you derive out of your own actions when you say you have to do things to be right before God. They are illogical and they are teaching false doctrines, demonic doctrines. And finally, before we get on the calls, Titus 3.5 says this, he saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness. See, they'll say, look, it's the works that God does in us, because we're saved, we're trusting in him as some say they're saved, some say well in the process of being saved if you do enough good stuff, well the works that God does in you. Anyway, not on the basis of deeds which we've done in righteousness, but according to his mercy by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.

That's what it is. I get tired of people who like to take the time on the radio, my radio show, to teach false doctrines by not answering direct questions and then say, as one thing they lead to another and that's why like yesterday I was suspicious, one caller, turned out to be a good caller and everything, a good person. But when they don't get to the point and they say one point after another, after another, after another, what they sometimes are trying to do is use my radio show as a means by which they can teach false doctrine. Having said all of that, let's get to Luis from Utah. Luis, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, I was just calling Matt to get your take on a pastor being divorced and remarried. Apparently his wife left him, as far as I can tell, and then he remarried. I found it out and it's just been a real struggle for me, after a year since then I've kind of backed away and I've backed out. I'm just really discouraged because things were going really good and my God is really speaking to me there and then I find this out and it just kind of blows everything out of the water for me.

All right, so we've got a break coming up so we're going to work through this and I'm not going to be able to solve the problem, but we're going to shed light on it. All right, so what it says in 1 Timothy 5.17 that the elders are to receive double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. So by default, elders, pastors who preach and stuff, are elders. The elder, as it says in Titus 1.5, Titus was to appoint elders in every city. If any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife. Now what it says in the Greek there is on Ermias guinikos. It means husband of one wife or it could loosely be translated a man of one woman, but it's basically understood as husband of one wife. Now let's apply this. Let's say that there was a pastor who, a good man, a godly man, a godly wife, she dies from whatever and then he remarries 3 or 4 years later.

Can he be a pastor? Yes, but it says husband of one wife. Well wait a minute, does one wife mean only one in sequence? That's not what's going on here. All right, I'll explain some more when we get back. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Be right back. Welcome back everybody. Let's see, let's get back on the phones here with Luis.

Are you still there? I am. All right, so when it says husband of one wife, it is permitted that he have more than one wife if his wife dies and he remarries. Now then we have another issue. What about a man who's an unbeliever and he divorces his wife for no good reason and then he becomes a Christian.

Then what? And say he marries and then he becomes a Christian, finds a good Christian woman, they get married and then later he wants to be a pastor. Can he be a pastor? Now this is where some people will say no he cannot because it's husband of one wife and divorce is wrong and he was a sinful divorce.

But then we have the issue of, well, this is Ryleen. Well the issue is that it was done in unbelief, he wasn't saved at the time and all things are new. So we move along from there and I think that's permittable at that point. Now let's move to a Christian pastor whose wife is, let's just say she abandons the faith, she leaves the faith completely, she has become an adulteress and is unrepentant and then she divorces him.

So now is he disqualified? Now that's a problem because the elders have to be involved to say well what level of culpability did he have and all this stuff and it becomes an issue to decide over other issues. So here's the thing, when we look at these circumstances we have to be very very careful. In that same issue it says children who believe, we'll get to that in a minute. How literal are we going to take things?

So remind me of that. Well it says it right there, children who believe. So now his wife leaves, the Christian pastor's wife leaves. I think at that point he needs to take a sabbatical and get his life back together before he resumes the pastorate because his marriage has fallen apart but it's not really by his fault. So I think then that there can be an allowance of ok it was not his fault, he was doing everything right, he's the one who left and therefore he should not be punished for her sin in that case and that's fine. Now we have this issue of the husband and wife as a pastor, they just don't get along and they just don't get along period and they get a divorce. There's varying reasons for divorce and some things there. Now we have a serious problem and I would say in a situation like that the pastor is now disqualified because you work things out, if they can't work them out it's a problem. He goes look we just didn't get along, we just decided to go our separate ways.

Sorry pastor you're not qualified anymore, just didn't get along. You work it out. Now the next part of that verse says having children who believe.

Now what do you do? See this is a problem so what if he has only one child but it says children so now it's plural. Do we take it literally and have two or more? That's not the intention obviously but it has children who believe. What if you have five kids and four believe and one don't?

Now what do you do? So these things become difficult to solve and say here's the universal truth about it bang we're done. And so normally what we want to say is this that the qualifications of the elder undoubtedly he's got to be a man, he can't be a woman. So pastors and elders are not to be women period and if you're listening to me and you go to a church as a woman pastor and elder anybody out there listening in a radio land you need to leave that church. Now so what we would normally say is I would think that a pastor could be a pastor if he's divorced under the right circumstances under certain permissible circumstances and not others. So you see how this is not exactly an easy thing to work through? No absolutely and that's the reason why I'm calling you on this is because that's where my heart is like I love like what's been happening and everything like that and then this issue rises and ultimately that's like well okay I need to find out like sit down with the pastor and say like okay this is this is my my problem with you know let's talk this through you know and see where where it is because I mean it is a it's a serious situation uh to me but at the same time it's not like I want to bail out either I I this is really hard for me um because what's the reason this is the first time and what's the reason for his divorce what's the reason yeah uh he left him I'm sorry what I can tell he went as far as as far as what I've what I've looked up and found out is that she left him she left him and so okay let's talk about that so you have to find out what the issue was there she left him why did she leave him is it because he's a wife beater in secret then we'd have a problem yeah if she left him because hey she just grew tired didn't want him anymore and she left or another guy then he's the innocent party there so abandonment believe it or not abandonment is a qualification for divorce so if the bible says in first and uh first Corinthians seven the unbeliever leave let him go and the persons are no obligation at that point and the other one is adultery so if she left him and he's doing everything right then he's he's innocent and then the elders need to be involved and decide how much he's going to be preaching get things together and stuff like that but if anyway there's more variables but go ahead well yeah no this happened a while back and that's why I just kind of I kind of googled it and mixed it up and kind of got the gist of kind of what was going on and and that's kind of where my heart is exactly what you were talking about you know I mean like me as being married you know I've been married 28 years and it's very important you know you don't just you know as a pastor you know how do you how do you counsel somebody you know in marriage when you you know you're not when you're divorced and married you know that's kind of an issue but yeah but not to say it's okay because of this but someone who's been through it can then relate better to someone who might be going through it so there's an advantage there what I would recommend you do I guess is I'd recommend you do is make a lunch appointment with them and just talk about it say I have these concerns what's the reason so let me just tell you if he wasn't doing anything wrong now I'm not saying he's perfect but you know what I mean no husband's perfect but he's he's done nothing really wrong okay and she's the one who was abandoning him and she left well then he's innocent then you just ask and were you a pastor at that time and then what happened where you did you take a year off or you just kept going with the elders involved well I do know I do know that he was a pastor at the time and that as far as I can tell that he didn't take any time off from what I understand I what I looked into it that caused kind of a rift in the church yes it would and that's and from that obviously and then that's why it's like a big concern to me I guess you know that's the details are the important part of that so you know we don't want to be legalistic but there's a qualification of the pastor yeah the qualification of the pastor is above approach so now you have to find out what was his responsibility in it that's what you want to find out yeah so if he says something like well I just I was tired of her I just didn't worry about it that's a problem but if he says no I tried to say it and she had nothing to do with it then okay it's a different issue okay buddy we got to go thank you all right man okay god bless let me know what happens hey folks we'll be right back get one open line want to give me a call 877-207-2276 be right back it's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276 here's Matt Slick all right everybody welcome back to the show let's get on the phone phone with Noelle whom we lost all right now let's uh get to Angie whom we lost now let's get Sean from Tennessee Sean welcome you're on the air hey Matt uh glad to talk to you I've got a um question about my pastor calls out other pastors that have made mistakes and you're difficult to you're difficult to understand okay just let you know it's hard to understand you it's like you're far away from the phone or something okay so um so I'll speak up I hope that's better okay um we'll try go ahead well okay Matt is that any better oh much better much better there you go all right okay good okay so my pastor calls out other pastors that are uh either in sin or previously previously were in sin and are no longer for example most recently he's been calling out a pastor that divorced his wife uh then he actually married the church secretary and he never stopped preaching during that time period and I'm leaning on the side of my pastor is right for doing that but the way he calls them out publicly and stuff what's your thought about that Matthew 18 says that our main thing to do is to go to them first in fact this issue has been bouncing around in my head recently because there's a growing church here in the Idaho area within not within walking distance but you know within walking distance and there are three of them and they have women pastors and elders and so I'm thinking about uh contacting them because I need to go to them and and offer to have a discussion with them and say why are you doing this when it's against scripture because it is and what they're going to probably do is say no and I don't want to talk to you at that point then you go public and that's the order so he needs to be um trying to contact them and if they don't respond say look I'm trying to do Matthew 18 I went through first you go to the brother first you do this you take the elders you do this and then you go to the church so if he's just labeling them that's a problem now then it becomes an issue of well how practical is it so I've tried to contact Joyce Meyer ministry for example and nothing and yet she's a you know I teach about her heresies and Joel Osteen I rarely talk about but he's you know he's got heresies but I've not tried to contact him so here's this thing do we you know when they're a public figure there's a different set of rules so to speak and you have the right to be able to quote them and things like that like I released an article on Andy Stanley I haven't contacted Dan Lee Stanley but I'm saying this is what he says and here are the problems so there's this gray area of what do we do and so I'd say it's okay to do it but it's also it's a good idea to try and contact them as well to get things straightened out okay if this pastor that is a very public figure did divorce his wife and did marry his church secretary without taking a break in there does that sound like something that in your opinion should be called out yes it depends but he should know the circumstances why did he and his first wife divorce what was the reason if they just didn't like each other because he was you know like in this the secretary then he's disqualified period for being a pastor if she was the adulterous she abandoned then he's innocent now in my opinion such a situation warrants a time of healing and spiritual reconstruction for the pastor and then I think it's a good idea I think it's wisdom at this point that he stepped down and not preach for a while while he's dealing with this because his marriage has been destroyed because the Bible says if you can't manage your own house then you're not qualified to preach but it doesn't mean that you had to be perfect in everything and so this is a difficulty at this exact point in the discussion trying to decide what to do so this is why I say it's good for the pastors at this point to take a sabbatical they prayerfully are reconstructing their spiritual life under with the guidance and help of elders and then get back in the pulpit and that's what I think should be done I think it shows humility I think it shows care and stuff like that so if I were a pastor and my wife were to pass away I might take a month or two or three off and say you know what I got to deal with this that kind of a thing it's subjective but it's also wisdom. Since that pastor's story changed as to why he got divorced I'm not sure it was as honest on his side as it could have been it's like I think he's disqualified but I just don't know and as you said going through him first privately was impossible there was an attempt made to do so and he even contacted my pastor back but I don't think it ever went anywhere from there yeah that's a problem it's a problem it is and with him being such a worldwide public figure that's why it's such a big deal so I understand I'd like to know who that is if you could email me and just say who it is I'd like to know okay I understand that I'll do that okay just yeah info at karm.org and then I can check things out you know I try and err err on the side of grace not of law we understand that we live in a sinful world and things are difficult and if if there's a you know if it's 50-50 I'm gonna go with grace instead of law that that's just my position there are people who disagree with me but and that's okay and you know they can have their time in court so to speak to lay their case out but that's that's it so yeah email me let me know and because I'm doing a series of analysis on varying pastors and stuff like that and I'm not looking for heresies for everybody who knows I just go this person teaches this good stuff here's the good is there any bad anything to be worried about like John MacArthur if I write about John MacArthur the worst I could say to him is he doesn't believe in the charismatic gifts and that's nothing you know he's a great guy so that's it you know oh and he's just sensational I wish he wasn't but hey you know he's a great man of God so you know there are good guys out there okay alright well I really appreciate your help Matt alright sounds good okay well God bless buddy okay alright you too you too alright alright let's get to Mitchell from Charlotte North Carolina Mitchell welcome here on the air what's up Matt how's it going it's going just hanging in there what do you got buddy um my question is I guess just on the the different wills in the training like the will of the father will of the son and the will of the Holy Spirit um I guess what is the will of each well I don't know how to answer the question to say what is the will of each okay um I guess I guess I'm having a hard time understanding I guess maybe a little of the Holy Spirit like how do you know it's not the will of the father or the son does that make sense okay so uh hold on a second okay uh there we go um so let's get into the doctrine of the trinity here a little bit and something called two things called divine simplicity and perichoresis so God is one being and he is a trinity in this one being so what we say in divine simplicity is that the one God is one substance one thing his God-ness his divinity-ness that's it it's just that one thing there's not parts and just we don't want to call it called uh partialism nope it's not parts he's not made up of three different things combined into one nope God is one thing now we see in the revelation of scripture that God reveals himself as three simultaneous and distinct persons three simultaneous and distinct persons okay there's a doctrine called the perichoresis and what that means is each of the persons because they are one thing ultimately each of the persons inter-dwells each of the other so there is in personhood we recognize the idea of of having a will identified with each person three persons in the trinity implies three wills but there can't be any contradiction or anything like that in the trinity if they're one being with the doctrine of perichoresis where all of the wills are inter-dwelling the others completely and totally for forever so we can't have a distinction of wills in any sense where I want and you don't want because it wouldn't work with the doctrine of perichoresis with the teaching of the mutual inter-dwelling of of God but when we get to the issue of the incarnation that introduces something different and I'll be talking about that after the break you with me so far okay yes sir yeah I'm with you okay hold on we'll be right back after these messages folks and we'll go into diselitism, hypostatic union and communicatio idiomatum as it relates to the person of Christ I know big words lots of fun though, stay tuned. Alright welcome back everybody let's get back on the phone with Mitchell from Charlotte North Carolina welcome you're on the air okay so did that make sense so far what I said about the perichoresis and divine simplicity in the Trinitarian understanding yes yeah I'm still with you okay now when we add the human nature to the second person it was called the hypostatic union the second person the word became flesh and dwelt among us John 1 and verse 14 and so by logic by necessity if we have three persons then by by definition a person has to have a will so now what we have is a divine nature and a human nature in Christ therefore each must have a will the Greek word for will to will is thileo and so there's a word to describe this die thalitism which means that Jesus has a will the human nature will the divine nature and so we have he has two wills in one in each nature however they manifest as one will in the person of Christ with this we do we have a doctrine called the communicatio idiomatum or the communication of the properties what it means is the attributes of the human nature as well as the attributes of the divine nature are ascribed to the single person so the single person said I am hungry now that's nor I am thirsty so that is the human nature speaking not the human nature speaking that's that's the wrong thing to say let me correct that uh that's uh the one person claiming the attributes of humanity he's saying I'm thirsty he also said I'll be with you always even the end of the earth now he's speaking with the attributes claiming the attributes of divinity we don't want to say as the one the spinnacostals do in this problem is to say within their say their their position is problematic we don't want to say that at one point the human nature is speaking and another point the divine nature is speaking that's uh Nestorianism which says that there are two persons in the one body that's not it Jesus is one person the one person said I'm thirsty the one person said I'll be with you always so the one person laid claim or claimed the attributes of both natures and the one person has one will so even though underneath things in the natures of Christ there's a will of each that's called diethylitism what we perceive and what is revealed in scripture is a single will and that is in the one person of Christ now this is kind of reflective of the trinity which has three distinct persons and implies three wills but because of perichoresis then there's only one will that's manifested because that's how it is because God can't have contradictory wills within himself he's just one being and the perichoresis kind of a shadow of that doctrine can blend over onto the hypostatic union where one person has two natures in Christ and so um that wasn't too confusing but that help yeah those are some uh big words I'll have to go back and uh re-watch this on youtube or anything but I'll pray about it and uh yeah I'll understand eventually I don't understand it but it doesn't mean I don't believe so uh but yeah yeah I appreciate your uh explanation what's up all right let me tell you that I've been studying this stuff for decades and I've only in the past uh year two or three really been able to articulate all of it together and understand it all how they all relate to each other because okay well that is very comforting yeah you don't learn this stuff just by reading the commentary these are bits and pieces of things that are that become necessary when I'm debating different cults and so for example in the one that's Pentecostal in John 6 39 we have this issue I'll just give an example of why this stuff comes up like this because this is the will of him who sent me that all that he's given me I lose nothing well wait a minute who's talking and the oneness people they say Jesus is God incarnate and that the flesh is speaking sometimes and the human nature is speaking sometimes and the divine nature is speaking other times so it would be like this I have come down from heaven that's a divine nature not to do my own will that would be the human nature but the will of him the father who sent me and that would be the human nature it's like that so this is what they do it's ridiculous and so that's why you have to study these things and learn these particular nuanced doctrines that deal with these heresies and so I'm still learning how to articulate them properly in order to bring them down off the highfalutin level down to the average Joe level okay yeah yeah I appreciate that but yeah man yeah thanks for your explanation and I know it'll take some time but uh thank you sir all right buddy god bless all right let's get to Gary from Utah Gary welcome you're on the air hey Matt how's it going it's going trying to get some it's advanced theology explained oh good question though hey listen real quick in the time that I've got here I'm looking I've got it all pointed out for you I needed to find out did you get a chance to see the debate that took place on March 4th with Apologia Utah which was Dr. James White hosting in Salt Lake the subject matter was what is our ultimate authority it was two Christians and two Mormons but Dr. James White was the moderator did you get a chance to see that I didn't even know about it no I haven't seen it oh my gosh you gotta see it it's on YouTube but you know how they got Apologia Utah here from Jeff Durbin and Dr. White but anyways I was thinking when I watched it um man if you and Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson were there you guys were destroyed those Mormon guys because the one Mormon guy to make a long story short he kept focusing on remember you and I talked before and about this interpretation I think he said that the word interpretation like 40 times he said well it depends on what your interpretation is I'm like I was getting angry I was like it's not about interpretation it's about what the Bible says in context and verbatim it's not that hard people I remember remember what I do when people tell me it's just how you interpret things then I start interpreting whatever they say the way I want and they don't like that yeah it's just interpretation and I interpreted you you just said that whatever I say is always right and that you lost the debate and discussion so I win thank you you know it's just ridiculous I've done that many times I know that really irritates me and when you get in your debates and that do you run into that a lot where were some of the Mormons especially or even others will say about interpretation too much yeah they always want to go interpretation because what they're saying is what it says what you're saying right there doesn't agree with me so it's just a matter of interpretation now they go back into the gray area of I don't know but our church tells you what it really means see and so but man ultimate authority in the Mormonism is not the scriptures because they negate the scriptures the ultimate authority is depending which Mormon you want to go with is the testimony of the Holy Spirit or the 70s quorum or the office of the presidency etc or the Book of Mormon I'll even say just depends yeah and I bet you run into that when you debate Catholics as well huh oh yeah yeah yeah sacred tradition the Roman Catholic Church the Pope you know the papacy all this stuff they have the final authority and yeah and I just and how do you know they're right because the Bible says also you're interpreting the scripture by yourself where'd you get the authority to do that and you know it's just yeah I need a portable wall so I can bang my head against it when I'm talking to people okay well that's what I'm thinking but the whole time I was watching it was an hour and a half long and I was thinking man I wish I know Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson of course know they're the experts if they were there and say you were there as a backup or whatever just giving your peace from the Bible too I'd be like man these guys would have got destroyed with all the biblical facts they wouldn't even have a chance because well they wouldn't need me Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson are phenomenal all right and they would destroy everybody they don't need me I'd just be there to get them water okay so yeah and if they have an advanced doc that's what it is if they have an advanced doctrine thing I you know I tend to know more that we've you know Bill's called me up a few times what about this doctor but but no I call him up I thought you were just what's that you're gonna say you're gonna be there you're gonna be there to bring them sandwiches when they need them right yeah I'll wear a dress that would be you yeah that's right well I really appreciate the input if you get a chance check it out it's on the it's on that channel came up and uh you might enjoy it oh I probably will probably would enjoy all right buddy gotta go we got callers thank you man talk to you later okay god bless okay bye all right let's get this Chavez from Maryland Chavez welcome you're on the air hello hello Mr. Slick how are you I'm okay man hanging in there what do you got buddy all right well I have like a question about the Trinity and also what you I heard you mentioned something about the incarnation of water I went to ask but for the Trinity um I listened in earlier you said something about uh Nestorian Nestorianism Nestorianism oh Nestorianism okay thank you there's others two persons uh sorry what is that saying that there's two persons in the body of Christ that's basically what it is there's variations within it but that'll serve for now okay okay so what's your question but but okay so when Christ died on the cross um wouldn't it wouldn't that be like the flesh of Jesus rather than like the divine only the human nature died on the cross that's correct okay but the human nature and the divine nature doesn't create two persons right it's not two persons the teaching is that in the one person of Christ are two distinct natures one person Jesus always says me I etc that's one person doesn't say we so it's I I'll be with you always I am thirsty so what we do is we conclude that the attributes of both natures are claimed or ascribed to the single person for the single person would say I'm thirsty I'll be with you always okay uh-huh so when Jesus was so Jesus also had a human spirit correct yes or he just had he did yeah okay so well okay so when we talk about person we mean like self-reflection or consciousness correct what church do you go to um I don't it's Trinitarian Pentecostal but I I kind of have like Reformed um okay all right I'm a Trinitarian by the way I'm just okay I'm just trying to like understand it because I have like Muslims like Muslims and like other like or atheists okay okay now okay good now I got some advice for you go to CARM the website c-a-r-m dot o-r-g is my website and look up uh the economic trinity ontological trinity all right economic and ontological look them up read up on that also look up hypostatic union you should know that hopefully and the communication of the properties or the communicatio idiomatum you learn those and you'll be able to answer ninety ninety five percent of all the questions that they would muslims and stuff would would raise okay okay okay scriptures are there go ahead okay hypostatic union communication the properties and I missed the first two ontological trinity and economic trinity these are just doctrines that the church has come up with to describe various things brilliant theologians and things like that and it's just a summation okay like the trinity is the ontological aspect of it there's the economic aspect of it uh things like that okay that's all it is so you do that all right can I say one more question before I go sure we only got less we got less than a minute so what do you got oh okay okay so I heard you mentioned something something about jesus jesus is not jesus didn't always exist as in well the explain oh it's out of time gonna hurry jesus came into existence two thousand years ago but the pre-incarnate word was eternal the union of the pre-incarnate word or the the word the second person of the trinity and the human nature that union whom we call jesus that occurred two thousand years ago but the divine nature was eternal okay call back tomorrow you can go to all right buddy hey sorry noel we'll talk in the chat room there and edward from ohio hey come back tomorrow we'll talk god bless everybody see you tomorrow another program powered by the truth network