Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines, 8772072276. I want to let you guys know that we're going to be having a matching funds drive for the rest of this month through December. And that means that if you donate $10, we have somebody who will match it another $10.

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And if you send it for something new, it'll be doubled as well. So just let you know. I'll be mentioning that periodically. Well, all right. There's something else and I can't remember. It's happening to me a lot lately. Let's get an old thing. Man, I'm telling you, it's kind of interesting because I'm thinking that I know all kinds of stuff and then I go to talk and my words in my brain don't work together sometimes. I don't know if you guys have that problem, but that's how it is with me lately. More and more and more.

Just getting older. But by God's grace, it will still be used because it's not the tool. It's the hand that wields the tool. So there you go. All right.

Four open lines. 877-207-2276. Let's get to Nathan from Utah. Nathan, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, how are you doing? Doing all right. Hanging in there. So what do you got? Awesome. Well, same question as last time. Now, are you ready to have a discussion?

Whoa. So you're starting off in my show. Am I ready to have a discussion?

You know, there's a bit of a challenge and it doesn't work when you talk to me like that. Okay. Well, what?

Well, then watch. Okay. You know, if you want, I'll hang up on you again. You be polite on my show and we'll have a conversation. You don't want to be polite. I don't deal with you. Okay.

So what's your question? So why should I convert to Christianity? Because if you don't, you're going to go to hell for eternity and you don't want to do that, do you?

Okay. I suppose that depends on your definition of what hell is. A fiery torment of conscious agony in which there is no escape, in which you will dwell permanently in severe pain and anguish out of the presence of God, knowing that for forever you will have no hope of being delivered from it.

Okay. And what reason do I have to believe that that is what hell is, A, and that I will go there if I do not work Christianity? Because Jesus is the one who talked about it. And you go to Mark 3 29, 25 46, Luke, or excuse me, you can also go to Revelation 4 11 and 2010.

It talks about a conscious torment in varying degrees. And Jesus rose from the dead. And he said, I'm the way, the truth, the life. Nobody comes to the father, but by me, John 14, six, he prophesied his own resurrection in John two 19 through 21. And so Jesus said in John eight, 24, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins. Okay.

Okay. And what is sin? Sin is breaking the law of God. First John three, four, he says, don't lie. If you've ever lied, you offended God. There's a judgment to come upon you because it's breaking the law of God.

All right. So you're quoting scripture a lot here. A lot of people have scriptural traditions. So what makes the Christian one unique? What makes a Christian one unique?

What are you talking about? I'm quoting you the word of God. Okay. Lots of people have holy books that they claim are the word of a God, right? So, so what makes the Christian claim to being the word of, of God, of the singular God? Okay.

You ready? The only one, because in the old Testament, there are prophecies of Jesus Christ and the odds of him fulfilling the prophecies are greater than the number of electrons in the entire universe as greater than what's called the universal probability bound, which is roughly 10 of the 150th power. And so the mathematical laws of Jesus fulfilling certain things, like being born at a certain time, walking into the city in a certain day. Uh, where does it prophesy Jesus in the old Testament? Zechariah 12, 10 Daniel, they look upon me whom they have pierced Zechariah 12, 10 is an example, Micah five, two, and from you Bethlehem, Ephrathah too little to be among the camp clans of Judah from you will go forth for me to be ruler. Uh, he's going to forth or from long ago from days of eternity, you go to Isaiah seven, 14, a Virgin will be born.

I mean, a son will be born of a Virgin and he was born of a Virgin and go on and on and on. That's not what that word means in Hebrew. That's the one is that, wait, wait. Okay. That is that word.

I've looked at this multiple times. I've had a Jew read it to me. The word in question there means young woman. It doesn't mean Virgin. Then why did the Jewish, then why did the Jewish translators of this Septuagint, which was a Greek translation done by the Hebrews, by the Jews around 250 BC.

When they got to Isaiah seven, 14, they translated it into the Greek Parthenon, which is Virgin. Why would they do that? Okay. No answer. So I don't know because, because that's what they did.

Greek is a second language because that's what they did. You weren't informed in this. So there are prophecies. Lots of people have prophecies and they do. Really? Lots of them have. Oh, okay. So who give me some prophecies.

Religious traditions. Give me one. Give me one. Go ahead. Back it up. Let's see. I believe that Muhammad is the last prophet, right?

And they wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You said prophesied. Okay. And Muhammad is not prophesied in the Bible except in Luke 24. I mean, Matthew 24, 24, where Jesus says, hey, Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, let me, let me finish my sentences.

If you keep interrupting me, I'm going to get rid of you. Now the prop, the so-called prophet of Islam, Muhammad, who is a pedophile, a false prophet is prophesied in the Bible in Matthew 24, 24. In the last days, many false Christ and false prophets will arise and deceive many.

That's it. I debate Muslims on this all the time. So give me something. Give me, give me some prophecies from other religions. Come on. Wait.

Okay. That is a prophecy that they believe though. That's what I'm saying. So people believe that they have that different things have been prophesied and they believe that those things have been fulfilled in prophecy. So why is the Christian claim to a fulfillment of their prophecies unique? Look for, first of all, the Muslims couldn't exegete their way out of a wet paper bag when it comes to scripture.

They don't know what they're doing. I've debated Muslims and let me finish please. I've debated them many times. Muhammad is not prophesied as they want to make it fit. You have obviously not done your homework in this area.

So give me some religious stuff with all these great prophecies. Go ahead. Other stuff. Okay. All right. So you're not understanding what I'm saying, I suppose.

So allow me to clarify. Now I'm, I'm not saying that I believe what Muslims say about Muhammad, right? Um, what I'm saying is that Muslims believe these things and when they quote what, when they quote unquote, quote the Bible. Okay.

Uh, because you know, when you're reading the Quran, I'm not sure if you read it, but when they're, when they, when Muhammad quotes from the Bible, allegedly, these are quotes that you can't find in modern translations of the Bible. Right. So you have quoting from material. Okay. Allow me to finish. You are so profoundly uninformed.

It's, it's bad. Okay. So when, Oh, okay.

Tell me how, and I'll, I'll go on. You go to these other books, you don't say what they are. You don't understand the extra ethical processes of the scriptures. And if you had done your homework and you look at what the Muslims teach, you'll, you can find out very easily.

They rip things out of context. For example, it'll say in John 14, 26, John 15, 26, the helper, when he comes, he'll guide you into truth. They say that's Muhammad. It is not Muhammad.

It's the Holy Spirit when you read the context. But when you tell Muslims this, they don't listen because they're indoctrinated in their false religious system. Now you said other religions have prophecy. So let's see if you can back up what you're saying, or if you want to retract what your statement was.

Lots of Buddhists believe that Buddha was prophesied and buried. And you got any documentation? You have the documentation? Off the top of my head? Okay. No, I don't have it off the top of my head, but you're not, what you're doing is can you, I am asking you what's unique about Christian prophecies and why these and why Christian scripture stands above other people's scriptural tradition. Okay.

I'm not making that case. Yes, I am. Now, before we leave the other topic, can you email me at info at karm.org? The documentation. Let me write that down. One second. Please let me finish talking.

info at what dot org? Karm, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G. And email me the documentation from the Bhagavad Gita and other places that has prophecy of Buddha and things like that. Okay. Now I don't believe that it necessarily does, but I'm just saying that that is what other people say.

So then what you're telling me is you don't know you've heard it. This is your response. You don't have anything solid and that's how you're refuting. All right. What I'm saying is that people believe that things are in scriptures, just like Christians do. So what makes the Christian claims, what is in their scriptures and the, the, what makes Christian scriptures unique? Okay.

All right. Jesus rose from the dead after three days, three days, he rose from the dead, full life witnesses. What independent evidence do we have of that? What do you mean what independent evidence, no matter what evidence I give you, you're going to say independent evidence. You, you make so many mistakes in your thinking as many false religious bad thinkers do, because what you'll say is, look, listen, you'll say the historical writings from that time written by the eyewitnesses that were collected and there you say, we don't recognize that we want something else. Well, I don't recognize that you have a valid argument by saying you dismiss the eyewitness accounts. You want something else.

It's ridiculous and it's arbitrary. May I reply to that? You can try. Sure. Okay. So when, on my last call, for example, you, you were bringing up the book of Acts, correct? And you were saying that the, uh, if this had been written after a certain point in time, which would be the sixties AD, when the temple was, the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, that this would necessarily be in the book. If that had already happened, that's what you were saying.

Nope. I did not say that. All right.

What were you saying then? I said that the inference is that if something of that great significance had occurred beforehand in the book of Acts, which is a book of history, the early church, most probably it would have recorded it since it already did record the death of Stephen in Acts chapter seven, but did not regard or record the death of Peter and Paul nor the destruction of Jerusalem. Logically, it's fair to certainly imply and infer that it was because it was written before the events.

Sure. But it is also just as logical. I mean, somebody can write from the point of view of someone in another point of time, correct? Yeah, but that's not what the Bible is.

You got to stop making these mistakes. You still, you give me some irrational thing and you impose it upon the scriptures. These are the eyewitnesses who wrote this stuff. And then you say someone else could write this, but what about the eyewitnesses? What do you do with John and Matthew who were eyewitnesses? Well, Matt, we get back to the break. You try and come up with a good answer to explain away the eyewitness accounts of Matthew and John.

Let's see, do you have a good rational one? Let's get back to, uh, Hey, open lines 877-207-2276 folks. This is what I do a lot of times in the evenings on different chat systems. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show everyone. If you want to give me a call for open lines 877-207-2276.

Let's get back to Nathan. Okay. You got an answer?

Yes, I do. So, um, you, you asked specifically about the gospel of Matthew, right? Matthew and John who are eyewitnesses and wrote about what they saw Jesus rise from the dead, et cetera. Right. So John, I'm not as familiar with off the top of my head, but Matthew, I can certainly answer. So, um, Matthew is, uh, he, he is alleged to have been a tax collector, correct? Yeah. Okay. So, um, there's an, and that's fine. You know, I'll, I'll just grant that that was this profession I've read material that says that the word there means a toll collector, but you know, whatever, that's fine.

We can just grant that he's a tax collector. Um, do you, are you familiar with, uh, well, actually that doesn't matter because Judea was a client state at the time. So what matters here is the quotation render into Caesar.

What is Caesar's and remember how he uses the coin that it's described as a denarii. Yeah. Right. So, uh, denarii were not circulation in Judea at the time.

And there's all manner of archeological evidence to this point. Really? Send me the documentation, send it to me. I want to hear it. Yeah, you do that. And where are you going to send it?

Where are you going to send it? Right. And we're going to see if what you say is correct.

And if it isn't, then you'll have to repent. Okay. So what else you got? Okay.

All right. So, well, so just allow me to finish that part with Matthew because there's, there's another part to that as well. So when you say that, uh, Matthew wrote the gospel, okay. Um, that's an important thing because, uh, the literacy rate in Judea, the literacy rate all around the Mediterranean at the time was very low. Um, a lot of scholars put it at an average of 15% in the different provinces. Um, Judea wasn't a Roman prophet at the time.

It was a Roman client state. Um, and a lot of estimates. Okay. You're going on, you're just ramp. You're going on. You look, you need to get to a point quickly. Well, you have to get to it quickly.

You're not doing that. So, so the literacy rate is at 3%. Now the gospel of Matthew is written in ancient Greek, which would be a second language to somebody like Matthew.

And it is written in a very sophisticated style of ancient Greek that makes a lot of number of word puns that suggest that the writer was a first language speaker. Oh boy. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You make a statement. You make a statement. Have you had any Greek? Yeah.

Really? You have good. Can you parse for me the verb Amy? Amy, Amy epsilon Eota me. Oh, and you parse it please.

What was that? Okay. So you say you've had Greek, you can't even parse a simple verb. And, um, so I'm not convinced that you, I'm asking you to parse the verb Amy.

Oh, what conjugated. Wow. Okay. So, uh, you don't know what it is to parse. This is what you learn like in the first week or two when you start studying Greek.

All right. So I don't know. So you don't know what sophisticated Greek is.

And actually sophisticated Greek is found in the book of Hebrews, Matthew and Mark and Luke are point a Greek, pretty common Greek that was written there. So what you're doing is just going with different scholars and different things. You've not given me anything at all, except your reasoning to deny that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. So let me ask you, did he rise from the dead?

Did he rise from the dead? I don't have any reason presently to believe that you're saying that the eyewitnesses are reasons. The eyewitnesses are reasons that you don't have any reason.

The eyewitness accounts in the new Testament, those aren't included in any reason. Okay. Let's, let's just grant for a moment that these people wrote these gospels and everything. Okay.

I will grant all of that. These people live 2,000 years ago. This, these documents have been translated through a number of languages. Okay.

That's incorrect. They're translated from the English into whatever language it is that it goes into period. So the Greek documents is around 6,000 or 99.8% textually identical and all the Mediterranean area and the copies that have been uncovered. So if you go from Greek to English, it just goes, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. And so when you translate from English, from Greek into English, it just goes straight from Greek into English or Greek into Spanish or Greek into German. Okay.

You're ignorant about that as well. So, so when I, so let's, let's try that with another language. So when I translate something from German to English, does it go straight from German to English? We're not talking about German to English. We're talking about Greek. For example, the new Testament translation is much more distantly related to English than German. So it should be easier to translate from German to English.

I tell you what, can you focus? You made a mistake. You said something wrong and I'm trying to correct you. It's not through multiple languages. You said the Bible is translated through multiple languages. So that's incorrect.

It goes from the original language into whatever language your native is, like, you know, into Mexico or into France or whatever it is, French. So what was your next statement going to be? I mean, I'm correcting you left and right. Multiple is more than one, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, and Greek is much more distantly related to English. It's an entirely different branch of the same, of this super family of Indo-European languages.

And furthermore, ancient Greek was spoken 2000 years ago. There is all manner of context that is lost. If you don't know how to even parse a basic verb or know what the difference is between the nominative and the genitive, you know, I would just recommend nominative and genitive.

Genitive is give possession, nominative is when you're just talking about it. It's a topic, a subject. Okay. Hold on, hold on. Nathan, Nathan, look, you work hard at damning yourself. You work hard at calling God a liar. Okay.

You're tugging at my heartstrings. That's not, that's not. And so I'm just telling you, informing you, I have everything you've said, I've heard a hundred times before over, over decades. And I'm just telling you, you don't, you haven't studied these things.

You only hear certain things and then you latch onto the things you want to hear. Now, why is it that Jesus Christ, why is, why is Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, why is, um, why did Jesus not rise from the dead? According to what the eyewitnesses said and wrote. What does that mean to rise from the dead?

The same body he died in, he rose from the dead, the same body died in, he received, Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, he died in the same body, he died in, he rose from the same, in the same body died in, and it still retained the crucifixion wounds as is recorded by John in John 22, 28. All right. Now tell me why they were all wrong. Tell me why they're wrong. Tell me what they're wrong. Okay.

Tell me, tell you why the people that wrote these gospels are incorrect. What if all these people had an agenda? I don't know these people. Let me answer that. Let me answer that. Hey, Nathan, let me answer that.

You said where they have an agenda and what would the agenda be since they were Jews who believed in the true living God, who furthermore believed that it was a great sin to lie. So you see, everything you challenge has easy answers to, and you cannot come back with anything solid. We'll give you one more chance after the break and we'll move on. Three open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Before we get back to Nathan, I just want to give you guys a couple of heads up on some stuff. If you want, please check out odyssey.com. We'll be moving over there. A lot of our videos, o-d-y-s-e-e.com.

Sign up and then search for Karm and follow us. It'll be a developing ministry over there. Also, we're doing an end of year fund raising drive where it's called matching funds drive, actually. If you donate anything new from this day out to the end of the month, it'll be doubled. We have a guy who helps out and does it once a year. So it really does help. Boy, does it.

My wife who runs all the finances is informing me that it's definitely something we need to do every year. So just giving you a heads up on that. One last thing before we get to Nathan, as he was saying, he's just working hard to damn himself, but the thing is that they had an agenda. The agenda was truth. If you read the gospels, they were hiding after the crucifixion. Then later, when they saw the risen Lord, then they became very bold. They said that they were dying for what they saw.

That's not different than a Muslim who dies for what he believes. This is what they said they saw, and they saw the risen Lord. Of course, Nathan has to deny that.

Nathan, you're back on. I didn't say that they had an agenda. I just said it's possible that they did, because these people lived a very long time ago, and I don't know them.

So when you say, well, these people saw this, and these eyewitness accounts, and they had an interest in truth, and the one true God, and so on and so forth. People all over the world have religious experiences with their gods, right? I don't know. Do they? And these people write about them? Oh, yes, they do.

How do you know? And these people, I mean, they say they do, right? And this evidence, this sort of eyewitness evidence works for you when we're talking about a Christian context.

Well, what you're doing is, you don't realize what you're doing. You're giving me a vague idea that is non-verifiable, that doesn't have any evidence. It isn't verifiable. Hold on. Nathan.

Nathan. It's anecdotal at best, and what you don't realize you're making a mistake in doing is comparing the eyewitness historical documents very well and accurately transmitted from then to now, and you're comparing them to stories of people they say they've seen, they've had experience, and you're saying those are equal. They are not equal. You haven't verified them, and you haven't established that they are equal.

Like I said, you're working hard to damn yourself. The eyewitnesses wrote what they said in the Bible. Were the eyewitnesses wrong in the multitudinous eyewitnesses accounts of the resurrection of Christ? Were they wrong?

Okay. Maybe they were. Maybe they weren't.

That's not exactly pertinent. And if they were not wrong, then what would that imply? That would imply that a man rose from the dead. That does not imply that there is a singular God. That does not imply that Jesus is the Son of God. Well, even though Jesus prophesied his own resurrection and that he would perform the action of his own resurrection and that the Old Testament prophesies his resurrection and that the prophecies of the Old Testament are that it's God who is dying there, God in flesh from the Old Testament, and Jesus claims to be God and walked on water and raised people from the dead, all of this is validation of who he was and his resurrection is the proof that what he said is true, and you're just going to sit here 2,000 years later and say, no, I don't want to believe it. No, I'm saying that people all over the world have records of miracles and records of... Give me some.

...experiences with... Give me some. Oh, what is the one with Buddha where he danced around in the sky on the lotus flowers or whatever? Yeah, you document it, and you'll find, and as I've done with many people, show the documentation, they don't because it isn't there. Or it's a legend that occurs hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years after the event. No, this is eyewitness accounts of the people who knew Jesus personally and were with him. That's not the same thing as somebody wrote something down 500 years later, and that's what they say is a prophecy.

Okay. So why did Jesus not rise from the dead? If he did rise from the dead, he did so according to what he said. He said, destroy this temple, three days, I will raise it up. He's speaking of the temple of his body, John 2, 19 through 21. You're going to face him.

You're going to face him in the adjustment. Wait, wait. You're saying that when he says that the temple will be destroyed and it will be... Say that again.

I'm sorry. I was confused. He says destroy this temple in three days, I will raise it up. And the Jews said it took 46 years to build this temple and you'll raise it up in three days. But he was speaking of the temple of his body, John 2, 19 through 21. Okay.

So he prophesied it. So do you know anybody else who's been dead for three days and then rose from the dead? I'm not sure I'm convinced the man rose from the dead other than that some people say that he did. Okay. I'll tell you what, no matter what I say, you're going to continue to deny who Jesus is and what he did. You just have to say something convincing.

Well, that's subjectivity. You see, the thing is what's convincing to one person, not convincing to another. I've had many atheists and people like you tell me, oh, give me convincing evidence. And I have to say to them, well, what would be convincing evidence to you?

And then I go through and I dismantle their requirement because it's arbitrary and not based in logic or evidence or reality. Okay. Well, we did establish that you weren't familiar with the fact that shekels were in circulation in Judea at the time.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You ignored what I just said and you shifted and you went to a different area and it does not say, I didn't say I'm not aware of that. I asked you for the documentation.

That's what I did. I can give you that. So I'll tell you what, you got one more minute before we take off because I've given you an awful lot of time. I want people to hear and experience what it's like to argue. And I mean, you know, argue in a polite way with someone who is unregenerate and cannot think clearly and is irrational and has an agenda to deny that you're living God.

That's you and you're going to face judgment. Okay. Now, let me ask you, are you on discord at all? I mean, if you're going to assign all those epithets to me, I'm not sure that there's further discussion.

Well, maybe not. Are you on discord at all? No, I'm afraid I'm an old man and I don't use it.

I'm almost 65. I use it. If you want to have real discussions with me where we can get into some stuff over two hour period, I'd be glad to do that. And I'd be glad to get into your presuppositions and basically undermine them because your presuppositions are either rationally based or irrationally based. You have to have an ultimate standard by which you establish what is an ultimate standard.

And if you don't have any way of doing that, I will just rip it apart like a monkey in a cupcake. You have to understand that God alone is the true and living standard of all righteousness. And that if you don't have him, you're going to be lost. And Jesus rose from the dead, fulfilled prophecies. And he said, he's the way, the truth and life. And nobody comes to the father, but through him, he prophesied this. And you have to deal with that.

You can't just dismiss it like you'd like to do and find reasons that don't hold water, as is pretty typical. But look, buddy, we got to go. Email me. Let's get to Sarah from Raleigh, North Carolina. Sarah, welcome. You're on the air. Hi.

I am not going to debate with you. I just have a quick question. Sure. Okay. So I'll give you a quick background. I was with some friends on Thanksgiving and on TV. We were just listening to music and it was Brahms Requiem.

Okay. And I, the people that I was with are Catholic. I'm a Christian. And I said, what's a Requiem? And they said, it's the song for the, either the song or I forget the other word for the dead. And I said, well, what does that mean?

And he said, well, it's, you know, we pray for people after they've died. And I said, so I said, so you, I said, so you think that it can make a difference if you, they say yes. I wasn't really sure how to respond.

And so I was either going to call my dad right away. Cause he's also a pastor and he reminds me so much over you, which is why I love listening to you because he's probably really good looking. You're gentle and tender. Hey, I gotta say something. We almost got a break here.

I gotta say something. I was talking to a lady on a, we'll get to you after the break. I was talking to a woman a couple of days ago on a help desk and, and I w she was really great. She did a great job. And so we're talking and I, I was feeling comfortable with her.

She's fully comfortable. We're joking around. I said, yeah, you know, I'm trying to do this and that and getting ready for the zombie apocalypse. And she chuckles.

And I said, that's going to happen right after, you know, right after the alien invasion. And she said to me, she goes, you remind me of my son. And I'm laughing.

And I said, so he's probably really handsome and smart. And she, she said, he's four. I was blessed that I'm so loud. That was hilarious. Anyway, my wife said, Hey, you tell the four year old thing on the radio.

It didn't know. So now I did. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So what do you say to one?

Right. So I, so I'm just kind of wondering like, so you think you can change whether or not they're going to go to heaven. And he said something about purgatory. I think he said purgatory.

And so I just, um, and I want to say first that I know that if I was doing the right thing, I would, I would take my own time to study the Bible to figure it out. We got a break. So when we get back, I'll tell you about purgatory and what it is that they think about the dead and stuff like that and how false it is. Okay. We'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned, folks. Welcome back everybody. Let's get to Sarah.

You still there? Yes. Thank you. All right. So purgatory, life after death, Catholic position and all that.

What do you say to them? Right. Um, yeah. Yeah. It's a tough thing. I just was like, Oh, okay.

Yeah. Well, you gotta understand that the Catholics aren't biblical in a lot of areas. What they do is they hold to whatever the church tells them. So they, um, they're like a cultist. They're like a cult in that sense in that they just believe whatever the church authority tells them.

They don't believe in the Bible as a final authority. And because of that, the church has said that when people die, let me explain how that works really quickly. So when you get baptized, all your original sin is removed.

And if you were to die right there, you go to heaven. But grace is a substance that's infused into the soul. Paragraph 1999, the Catholic catechism. And so if you sin a little venial sin, you lose some of that grace. But if you sin a big sin, like a mortal sin, like murder or adultery, you lose all of the grace.

And if you're to die, you go to hell. So to get the grace back, you have to go to the church. The church has the authority to dispense grace from heaven out of the treasury of heaven earned by Jesus, the apostles, the saints and Mary. And so the church is your salvation.

The church is what you have to go to. The church has the authority. The church has the priesthood. The church has the papacy. The church, and that you'll hear on radio shows where the Catholic church is there, come home to the church. It's not about Jesus. It's about the church.

So this is the mental position they're coming from. So if you were to say, well, the Bible says this, you know, to them, it's like, what? What do you mean the Bible?

We go with the church. This is what you're working against. But you have to understand that the Bible says Isaiah 55 11, that the word of God will not come back empty without accomplishing what God desires.

All right. So you speak scripture anyway. Now they teach that when a person dies, that he has to go to purgatory and suffer because he doesn't have all of his sins completely removed and the effects of sin. Everybody goes there first. Unless you're not a Catholic or you're an atheist or something like that, and you just go to hell. But those who in the Catholic religion and some outside, depending on which Catholic group you want to go with, then they go there and suffer for thousands of years. And then they are made worthy to then enter into heaven. And purgatory is this place where they go for purification and things like that. And so because of that, you can do a requiem for the dead and you can have indulgences done for the dead where certain graces are moved from the heavenly realm through the authority of the priest or the ceremony that you do and apply to the people in purgatory to get them out quicker. And sometimes you can put money towards this and get them out quicker.

So this is what's going on with them. And so what I do is say, the Bible says in Hebrews 9-7, it's appointed to men to die once after this comes judgment. There is no second chance. There is no purgatory. Okay.

That's what I was wondering. And like I said, I know I need to do my own research, but I knew that you would know a little bit more. And I listen to you almost five days a week. And I do believe that people that believe that consider themselves Catholics, excuse me, that they are not going to the same heaven that I'm going to. They won't be going to any heaven. Okay. Well, okay. I don't believe that they're going to heaven and I have people and it's hard, but I understand. And I agree with everything I've heard you say for a while. I understand that, but when I just wasn't quite sure how to respond, so I just.

It's normal. I've written a great deal on Catholicism. I don't know how many articles, well over a hundred articles and I love debating it.

I love teaching it. And Roman Catholicism is apostate. It's false as a false gospel.

And all who believe in official Roman Catholic theology when they die, I believe will go to eternal damnation. Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. I love you. I appreciate you. Okay, great. Call up the office and tell my wife how great I am. Okay.

Cause I need all the help I can get. Okay. All right. Okay. Thanks.

All right. That was Sarah. Let's get to Glenda from North Carolina. Glenda, welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, this is Glenda Smith. I was in response. My thing is in response to Nathan who said that the shuffle or the denarii was not used during Jesus' day. I found something on the internet where it was says, although the official name of the temple act coin was half a shuffle Jewish sources record that only one type that priest acknowledged was the one called the Tyrian shackle.

So it wasn't used called the shackle and it wasn't used called the denarii also. So can you send me that documentation because I can put together an article and just compare them because when we get to things like this, I'd like to have documentation, I'd like to have documentation for the other side as well. So, uh, yeah, I'll look it up. Yes, sir.

I'll send it to you. Um, also I was just thinking that if Nathan spent, ain't this much time reading the Bible and asking himself the questions, you know, or just listen, listening to what the Bible says, God might choose to speak to his heart rather than going around arguing against it. I mean, that makes no sense really. He didn't argue with the antiquity or the, uh, the historical things that other people believe that it's like, he's got to just destroy people's faith and not even accept it himself.

So right. And every argument he gave, I've heard, uh, many, many, many, many times before, and it's nothing new. Uh, and, uh, so the scenario thing's a little bit new, so I'll admit that, but everything else now, uh, it's just basic stuff and he's not done his homework.

I'm sure that, uh, when it was first interpreted, uh, by the King James, uh, translators, uh, or some of the other earlier ones, even that was all considered and they were a lot smarter and understanding closer to the Greek language than we are even today. Right. Understanding.

But I mean, they wouldn't just nonchalantly say something that was, I mean, the argument would have been a long time ago, way before Nathan was born. Right. So anyway, it's out there. I will send what I got here. Okay.

Well, sounds good. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, sir. Thanks.

Appreciate you too. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks Glenda. All right. Let's get to our last caller.

Uh, if you want to call eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six Burt from Richmond, Virginia. Welcome. You're on the air. Hello? Yes. Okay. Um, I got a question. If someone passes away, do they have to go to either heaven or, or, um, hell or is there some place like for people that kind of not, you know, in the middle maybe and there's, you know, trying to decide which way they go or whatever.

Nope. There's only good place, bad place, no in between place. There's no purgatory.

There's nothing here. The reason why I'm saying this is because I've always had a special relationship with God about when people die. I've always known, um, when I've asked things ahead of time, I might not be able to want to die. You're breaking up a little. So it's hard to understand you. I want to make sure I understand you. So, uh, could try it again. Okay.

You know, people, something about a special relationship. Can you hear me now? Yeah. A little bit, a little bit better. Yeah.

I just want to build it here. I've had a relationship with God where I've been able to ask him if people that are, are going to, you know, they're like, they're sick or hurt or whatever. If they're going to make it, I always, I said, is this person going to make it or not? And he tells me yes or no.

And he's always right. Of course. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh? Oh, definitely. Do you believe that? Do you believe that? Do you believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven?

No other way. Oh, definitely. Okay. So God tells you things? Yes. He tells me yes or no. And he's always been right. Now I only know what a few days ahead of time.

I don't know like months ahead of time. But I'm a little confused. I thought you said about going to heaven or hell.

So he's telling you if they go to heaven or hell. No, let me explain why, because the people that I have asked, this has only been over the past, like, obviously maybe seven, eight years. I don't know exactly that it's been going on.

I never asked before. Um, and I'm not sure. When you say God tells you, what does he tell you yes or no in regard to? I say is whatever I see the person saying, is this person going to make it or not? What do you mean make it? Make it or what?

If they're going to keep living or die. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Okay. Yeah. I even have my mother and my father that, um, did it, you know, passed away and I knew several days ahead of time. Yeah. That's called often called a word of knowledge.

So, so what else do you have about that? I mean, do you want to know if people go to heaven or hell? It's because I had a really good friend recently that passed away and we were real close when we were young and then we lost touch for a long, long time. And then we had like a reunion and we kind of got back together and I got to like everything for a little while. She passed away.

I don't know what kind of person she's been or what she, you know, isn't much about anything about her, but I was like extremely, extremely upset about her passing away that, you know, do you have a question? Do you have a question? No. Well, no.

My question was whether or not they have one or the other. Wait, wait, wait. I don't understand. I don't understand something.

One of the other one, maybe you'll understand one of the other. What? All right. It's going to live or die. All right.

Heaven or hell. She died. All right. Yes. All right. Let me finish. Okay.

Okay. So anyway, this particular person, I was upset for many days and I wasn't even really real close to her. I mean, I liked her and everything. I'm more so than my mother or father. And the only, and I kept wondering why I'm so upset.

And the only thing I could think of is maybe she went to hell because I don't know enough about her. Okay. So are you asking me a question about this? Because okay. That's the question.

And no, there isn't. Do you go to heaven or you go to hell? Do you attend church? Do you attend church? Do you attend church? Do you attend church?

But I, I kind of got no, what happened now? Do you attend church? Do you go to church? Okay. Um, well, I would recommend that you find a good church and get, get in there and get a solid teaching. Now I, I affirm the charismatic. That's the problem.

I usually go straight to God because when I've tried to go to some churches, I don't, you know, I like them for a while and then they start telling me things. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. You need to be involved with the church and you're saying a lot of things. You're just kind of going off in different directions.

It's difficult to follow you. Probably my problem, but, um, no, there is no, uh, alternate place that are in heaven and hell. There's no purgatory and that's it.

You trust in Christ or you don't trust in Christ. Well, I didn't know that there was purgatory or maybe somewhere else. There isn't.

I wasn't saying where. It's just. Okay. Then that answers my question.

That's why I was so upset. Okay. All right.

Well, thanks a lot. Okay. We'll have to end the show. All right. Thank you. All right. Okay, folks.

Um, yeah. So, uh, hey, hopefully tomorrow, uh, we'll be back on the air by God's grace. We'll talk to you then. And, uh, have a good evening folks. We'll talk to you tomorrow. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the truth network.