Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you're new to the show and not sure what's going on, this is a Christian apologetics show. I answer questions, difficult questions, and do debates and things like that. In fact, I had a debate on Tuesday night with a oneness guy, and I've got a debate on the 13th with a guy who wants to discuss limited atonement. So if you have any comments on the debate I had with Bishop Hayes on Tuesday, I thought he kind of made a lot of mistakes and didn't get some stuff. So hey, just asking, if you want to make comments about it, I'd love to hear from you.

And if you're not sure, you can just listen and tell me what you think. So oh, by the way, is there anybody out there who really knows video editing well? If you do, you want to help, you want to do a little bit of volunteer, maybe teaching me.

I have Sony Vegas. I can learn other stuff, but I need to do some tricks here. I need to do some stuff.

So I'm just going to ask him, all right, info at karm.org is where you can call to let me know. I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving. I flew down to Southern California and spent some time with the fam. We had a good time, saw all the kids.

What else? Oh, it was 70 degree weather, blue skies, Southern California weather. I miss it. I should have lived there for decades. Now I'm in Idaho, but I like Idaho. I like the rain and this thing called seasons. See, we're back in San Diego, that's where I used to live. You know, we had winter on Tuesday and we were done.

It was illegal to get below 60, you know, that kind of thing, and you're supposed to have perfect weather all the time. So here there's this weird concept called seasons, and I actually have been through a whole bunch of them now. I'm looking forward to the snow that comes here. It's great. Hey, so there you go. All right. I hope people are saying they missed me. I think that there are people who are maybe either stalkers and they miss me or they just love me and they miss me or they need lame entertainment during the day and they miss me because, you know, I was off last week.

So either one or a combo of those will do. All right. Well, let's see, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Anthony from Virginia. Anthony, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yes, I can.

What's up, buddy? All right. There's a feedback, so it's a little confusing, but my question is, according to Reformed theology, the only way a person can get saved is if they put their faith in Jesus Christ. Is that correct? That's correct, yeah. In this sacrificial atonement?

Right, yeah. You don't just trust in Jesus. What happens to all the people who were born and lived and died before Jesus ever existed?

Oh, yeah. Those people died in faith and expectation of the hope of the Messiah to come. Just as it says in Romans 4-3, it says, and Abraham believed God was reckoned in his righteousness, and that was Abraham way before Christ, and so he was counted as righteous because of his belief and trust in God.

And so it's the same thing. They're justified by faith before the time of Christ and justified by faith after the time of Christ. Yeah, but what about all the Gentiles and the people around the world who weren't part of the Israelite faction? What about them, like the Greeks and the Chinese and all those, everyone? Well, what I would say is since the Bible doesn't talk about it and there are different discussions that kind of illuminate the issue from different angles, what I like to say is that God can certainly save anybody he wants all over the world, and he has ways of communicating that faith and that trust and that truth to other people. It can only still be through Jesus Christ, but I believe that there are hints of the Gospel in most every culture that God has not left people, groups, unaware to some degree. I don't know what degree that would be, but I believe that God can certainly work through other cultures. There's a book called Eternity in Their Hearts, and I forgot who's the author, and it talks about things like that, different cultures and different times.

They have different things, like a book called Bruchco. This guy, he was a Christian. He went down to, I think, Columbia, I think, South America, and apparently there was a prophecy in a tribe, a particular tribe, that didn't know what white people were, basically. So he went down there, and he had blonde hair, blue eyes, and a Bible. And the prophecy was that there would be a white-haired man who would have the words of God on banana leaves. That was their prophecy. And he showed up with his Bible, banana leaves, book, pages, and they became Christians.

So there's things like that all over the world. So you know, God has his ways, but it's still only through Jesus. It seems to me that that creates a system where there is salvation possible outside of faith in Jesus. Would you agree with that, though?

If there are these methods... Here's the thing. Abraham was justified without knowing who Christ was, but knowing of the work of God. He was justified by the faith that he had in the true and living God at that time. So does God do that today? You're talking about prophets. You know, there are millions of people around the world who didn't know, even though the Israelites existed, and they weren't communicating with God, they didn't know anything about Jesus.

And I'm just curious, if it's true that salvation can only come through faith in Jesus, I don't see what path there is for all these people. But at the same time, it seems like it would be fair if they actually had some sort of chance. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You said it wouldn't be fair? Okay.

Is that what you said? Yeah, it wouldn't be fair, because that's the sense of that. Hold on.

Hold on. Do you have a universal standard of fairness by which you can say what ought not be done? Well, everyone should have the same opportunity to... They should? At the very least hear... Where'd you get that, they should? In a fair system, I think everyone should have the... Where'd you get the fair system?

Where'd you get the fair system, what should be done? See, I'm asking you difficult questions, because what you're doing, inadvertently, is you're saying that there is some standard to which God himself ought to obey. Where is the standard that you're saying what God ought to do, how it ought to be fair for people in different parts of the world at different times? You have to answer that question, because a lot of people will ask the question that you have, and it's a fair question, unless they don't ask it, but you've got to be careful what you do is not to accidentally subject God to your personal preferences and feelings.

You see what I'm saying? Well, I think, even on a human level, we understand that everyone should be treated equally. If you create a system where there's this... Everybody should be treated equally. Yeah, but you're talking about salvation with God, so maybe, I'm hoping you could tell me what universal moral system that you have privileged access to. Well, the system, in my opinion, would be that if you have a system where salvation is only attainable by this, by doing or believing in X, and you only give that opportunity to an entire segment of humanity just because they were born in a different time period or a different place, that excludes those people from having the opportunity to obtain this very important goal of eternal salvation. So it can... What's wrong with that? You know... What's wrong with that? Well, it means God created a system that didn't treat people fairly.

Really? So you're saying God is unfair? According to that... I'm not saying God is unfair, I'm just saying according to that theory or philosophical system... Here's the thing, I'm trying to show you something here. I understand that there are issues here, but you've got to understand that you can't just say this is how things ought to be and this is what is fair. You don't want fair. Because if you want fair, then you're going to go to hell, and I would too, if you want fairness. And the thing is, who are you to answer back to the molder, why did you make me like this? For does not the potter have the right over the clay to make one lump for the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? That's Romans 9, 22 and 23. You're asking the same questions that Romans 9 asks, but it also answers. And the answer is, who are you to say to God? Who are you?

Where do you get your standard? And you can read the first couple, three chapters of Job, and they try and raise a complaint against God. He goes, well, where were you? The last couple, three chapters also. Where were you?

Who were you? And these are serious questions. I can imagine envisioning a system where God creates a world where an entire segment of society never even has a chance to obtain salvation, and then another segment just because of their local and temporal existence, they are given the opportunity. You know what I mean? So it does not depend upon the man who wills or the man who runs, but upon God who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose I raised you up to demonstrate my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth. So he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires. You'll say to me then, well, why does he still find fault for who resists his will? On the contrary, who are you, O man, who enters back to God?

The thing molded will not stay to the mold, or why did you make me like this, will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory. I just read to you Romans 9. Are you prepared to say that according to the Reformed system, all of those people went to hell, and they never even were given a chance... I just read you scripture. Do you have any problem with the scripture you just read? The scripture seems to confirm that perspective.

Okay. I would agree, the scripture certainly seems to affirm that perspective, goods. That means you are understanding what the word of God says.

Now, let me ask you a question. What complaint have you got against God? Well, according to that, that interpretation, I was a God who is unjust. I just read it. Well, I mean, you read one verse out of the entire Bible.

I'm just saying... No, I didn't. I did not read one verse. I read one, two, three, four, five. Or actually six. You read one part of the Bible. Seven. Seven verses.

Five, six, seven, eight verses I read, okay. I understand that, but that's... Well, what if I were to tell you that I believe that God makes everything, even the wicked, for the day of destruction and stuff? What would you think if I told you that? I'd have to question that as well.

I think... I just quoted to you Proverbs 16.4. The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked, for the day of evil. I just quoted it to you.

See, here's the thing. You understand what the Word of God says, you don't like it. And what you're trying to do is submit the Word of God to your preference. No, I don't agree with that interpretation. I think when you look at everything... What interpretation? What interpretation? I just read it to you.

I understand that. When you... Okay, tell you what. We're gonna break. We're gonna break. Come back. We'll be out of the break.

And you come up with a better answer than you don't like it. All right? We'll be right back.

Look at the scriptures. But we'll be right back. Okay? Hey, folks, two open lines, 877-207-2276. We will be right back. It's Matt Slick live.

Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome back.

To the show. Anthony, you're still there? Yes. All right.

Do you wanna give it another go? Because aren't there bile verses that says God is just? Of course he's just.

And they gotta be in there. Yeah. He's just.

He's holy. He's right. The interpretation you're providing is that there's all these people, it doesn't matter how they live their lives, there's, you know, the people who did the right thing... Well, hold on. Let me just... Wait, wait, wait. Wait a second. Did the right thing and none... Are you a Christian? Yes. What church do you go to? I haven't been to church in a bit, to be completely honest. Years? I'm not a member. Is it years?

Is it years? Uh... Yeah. Aside from...

Sometimes my family goes, I'll go with them. Okay. But I personally do not... Yeah.

Okay. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God in flesh? Do you believe Jesus is... Well, I mean, you're getting into all these issues. I'm just asking. Do you believe Jesus is God in flesh?

I believe he has a divine aspect to his character, certainly. Okay. So, um... Anthony, it sounds to me, and I don't know yet, and I'm gonna be careful here, but it sounds to me like, you know, since you don't go to church, you really don't understand who Christ is, it seems.

Maybe you do. It's not wording it right. And you're complaining against God's actions. There might be some issues here with your need before God to be humble and trust him before you trust your own judgment.

I'm actually not complaining against God, I'm complaining against an interpretation of God that I believe is incorrect. What interpretation? What interpretation? What interpretation? I just read you the scripture. The interpretation... That's what I do. I read it to you. I read it to you. How's that interpreting it if I just read you scripture? I read you scripture, you call it an interpretation, you don't like it. I didn't interpret it.

I just read it, and you don't like it. So you're saying you don't like what God's word teaches. Yeah.

Okay. Well, for instance, you said God can have mercy on whom you want to have mercy, but at the same time, maybe he's having mercy upon the people who live their lives the right way and... Live their lives the right way. See, this is the thing that causes me to have problems with what you're saying, and I'm not trying to be offensive here. I want you to understand, but you don't sound like you understand what salvation is. It has nothing to do with you live your life the right way. It has no bearing whatsoever on your salvation.

None. We're justified before God. That's your interpretation, of course. No, no, no. Romans 4-5... That's a complex interpretation.

Hey, hey. Romans 4-5, to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly. His faith has counted his righteousness.

One who does not work. Romans 3-28, we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. In Galatians 5, one through five, if you were to go study that, people who want to be circumcised said that they were severed from the faith of God. They had fallen from grace, because they were seeking to be justified by something that they do.

See, I'm going to tell you, don't just say, oh, that's Matt Slick's interpretation. I have been doing this for 41 long years, and I know what the Bible teaches, eteriologically, it's doctrine of salvation, and if you disagree with this, you're the one who's wrong. Okay, well, there are people who've been studying it for longer than you, and they disagree with your interpretation, so what's the problem? The problem is that they don't agree with what scripture says. Does it not say, for example, that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law? Romans 3-28, that's what it says.

I just quoted it to you. Do you agree with that? The works of the law, they justify, there are verses which imply that faith and doing works work together. Are you Roman Catholic? No, I'm not a Roman Catholic, but I agree more with their system than the Calvinist system for sure. Well, yeah, but the reason is because you put yourself on the throne and not God.

That's why. You are the one who wants to judge God and say what is fair. You have no right to do that.

You have no system or standard. You can go to the word of God, you can pick what you want. When I read you scripture, you say you don't agree with it because it's my interpretation. You have to repent because I just read it to you and you denied the word of God.

Now, let me ask you a question. If you were to die right now, and it may not happen, but if you were and you were to face God and he asked you, why should I let you into heaven, what would you tell him? I would say it's up to God. I don't believe in security of faith.

I believe in God will make a decision at the moment when that judgment does not come. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist? Are you a Seventh-day Adventist?

No, I'm not. Mormon? I'm a Christian. I'm not a Mormon.

No, you're not. I would not call you a Christian. I would not call you a Christian. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist or Mormon or Jehovah's Witness?

You've been from those groups or Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism. They all add works to salvation. Are you being good enough to be saved? Are you keeping yourself good enough before the infinitely holy God? That's up to God. I believe that in God's hands. No, you're not. Anthony, I don't think you know what the Gospel is.

The Gospel is a death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. There's nothing, brother. I'm just telling you, there's nothing you've got to offer God. Me too.

It's the same here. We're both sinners. God grants that we believe, Philippians 1.29. He grants us repentance, 2 Timothy 2.25.

You cannot come to Christ unless it's been granted to you from the Father, John 6.65. You have to put your trust and faith in Christ alone, not Christ and your sincerity and your ability and your righteousness and your whatever because what it's leading you to is sinful judgment of God. You're denying the true and living God because you have your own idol. Your idol is yourself, how you think things are supposed to be.

I'm not name-calling. I'm just saying you've got to understand, you've got to repent of this because you need to trust in Christ and Christ alone and be justified by Christ alone. Jesus says in John 6.38-40, he says all the will the Father gave him will come to him and those who come to him he certainly will not cast out for this is the will of him who sent me, Jesus says, that all that he's given me I lose none. If your salvation is dependent upon your ability, then you can be lost.

If it's dependent upon Christ's, then you can't be lost. Jesus says the will of the Father is that even is none. I just want to interject, I notice you don't ever quote verses stating that God expects us to behave according to his will which then the Bible is filled with such verses in the Old and New Testament. You mean like obey the Ten Commandments and you mean like the Ten Commandments which Jesus reiterated in the New Testament except for the Fourth Commandment. And you mean like where Jesus says the summation of the law which he quotes Deuteronomy 6.4 in Matthew 22.37 and Leviticus 19.18 in Matthew 22.39 which is love God and love your neighbor respectively. Then he says in verse 40 that it's a summation of the law. You mean that?

Stuff like that? Or you want to go to James 2? James 2.26, man is not justified by faith alone which is before people not before God. Or how about, don't forget 1 Peter 1.16, be holy for I am holy. Or be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect, Matthew 5.48. You see I know these things because I deal with cults all the time who don't understand like you that salvation is by faith alone and Christ alone.

All false religious systems add something. But here's the thing I think you need to do. I think you need to submit yourself to God.

You've not done that. You're submitting God to yourself. Read Romans 9 starting at verse 9. Read Romans 9 starting at verse 9, 9 through 23. Study it and call me back tomorrow, okay, Anthony?

Seriously. I just want to finish saying you seem to be the one who seems to be ignoring what God gives us commands to live by. I didn't say that. I just quoted you scriptures, buddy. I quoted you scriptures to the contrary. I guess you just don't listen.

Okay. This guy, folks, you got to pray for him. Pray for Anthony.

Pray for salvation. Hey, folks, one open line, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back by God's grace. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back, everybody. Let's get to Kim from North Carolina. Kim, welcome.

You're on the air. Thank you, Matt. My question is coming from Mark, chapter 12, verse 25. Does this indicate that any relationship we have on earth now will be numb and void once we get to heaven? No, but the verse says, for those who don't know, for when they rise from the dead they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.

The context is always important because he's talking to the Pharisees, excuse me, the Sadducees. They did not believe in a resurrection. They were asking him, well, hey, look, a wife has seven husbands, so whose wife is she in the resurrection?

Jesus says, you don't understand the issue. They're neither given in marriage or married, so he's saying it's not an issue of marriage because marriage is till death do her part, and so the relationship we have, like I'm married right now, and when either my wife and I die first or at the same time, then our marriage is then over, so the marriage vow is till death do you part. When one of us dies, then the other was no longer married, and when we go to heaven and we see each other, I have to make reservations to go up to the higher level of heaven where she is because she had to put it with me, and so when I get to see her, we will not be married in heaven.

Okay. Okay, but the scripture says we will be as angels. Yeah, they're not given in marriage.

One of the main purposes of an angel is to worship and to serve the Lord. Yeah, but that's not the context. The context says they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like angels in heaven. The context that he's saying in being like angels is they don't get married, okay? That's what the context is there, okay? So you'll still be able to have that same relationship knowing her and the way you did here.

Well, not the same relationship in that marital privileges won't exist then, but we will know each other, and I'm sure we'll know each other for eternity. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, Matt. God bless you. Sure. No problem, Matt. God bless.

All right. Well, there's a guy in the chat room, Mike Miner, I'm calling you out, buddy. Why don't you call up and get on the air, and let's have a discussion about the accusations you're making. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome, man. You're on the air. Yes. Good evening, man. Slick. I want to make a quick comment about the first young man. Okay. See, a guy is not obligated to include none of our starry, wicked, sinful selves.

He did his best. That's right. If that ain't good enough, well, my real question is, when the preacher tells the congregation 70% will stay behind because they're not living right, why is it wrong for him to say that? Stay behind? Wait, wait. Stay behind? No, no. What do you mean, stay behind? No. It will stay behind the Lord if the Lord were to come that night. 70% will stay behind.

Oh, you mean the pre-tribulation rapture? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No? Okay.

Why? Well, no, what I'm saying is, if the Lord would come tonight, he said 70% of the church members will stay behind because they're not living right. What do you mean by stay behind?

Why is it wrong? What do you mean by stay behind? Stay behind. Now go with the Lord.

I'm not talking about a pre-trib or nothing. Why is it wrong for him to say that if God told him? He said God told him that? Why is it wrong for him to say that?

Wait. Did he say that? He said God told the congregation.

Oh, brother. You know, when someone says God told me, blah, blah, blah, et cetera, let me tell you, that really is problematic. I've had two instances in my life, just two, where I believe that God actually spoke into my heart, where there was kind of a conversation, and just two, and 41 years of ministry, I've been saved since I was 17, though, and when I talk about them, I talk about them cautiously because I believe they're from God, and they were very important, and I won't go to the congregation and preach and say, you know, God told me, blah, blah, blah, let me tell you about it.

It's a casual kind of disrespect to God. God told me, blah, blah, blah, really? If God spoke to you, how is that affecting you? If God spoke to you, how are you in relationship to the other people in Scripture when God spoke to them, when they're afraid, when they are highly reverent because of that in Scripture? No, we have these, in my opinion, a lot of people are charlatans who do this, nothing here, that guy was, but they'll say, yeah, God told me last night, blah, blah, blah, I was talking, you know, and God said, hey, you don't got to do this, tell them this. Okay, so I'll tell them, this casual conversation that they have with the infinite holy God of the universe as though it was their neighbor.

So that's one problem. The other thing is, he shouldn't say 70%, it's just ridiculous, okay? But I had another preacher before him, same congregation, but they switch him every time, you know, the organization, the Church of God, a community organization, but it's not a Latino church, you know, and the first pastor when I was there, he said that God told him 90% to stay behind the law of Congress, so then the last pastor, which had 70%, so then if I object to that, the congregation will defend the preacher instead of me, they'll probably attack me saying, who are you to say the pastor is wrong, or the pastor didn't tell me. No, have me over there, I'll tell him he's wrong, I'll be glad to tell him he's wrong and say, so let me get this straight, so when God speaks to you, you have no problem casually talking about it, so it's just, hey, God told me 70%, is that how you're saying, the infinite holy God speaks to you, this is what happens, is that how you are?

I'm going to just say, I think it's disrespectful. You know, I've heard, I think it was Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, the like, you know, on stage, God told me, blah, blah, blah, you know what he said, well I was saying, no Lord, I don't want to do that, yeah, you do this, you do that. If I hear the voice of God in my heart, my mind, or even audibly, I'm going to be on my knees, I'm going to be affected, I'm going to be cautious, but we have too many charlatans out there who don't have any problem elevating themselves in front of people and saying, God told me, now let me tell you, okay, this is bad news. How do you know, even though, sometimes it happens too many times, like they have another evangelist to confirm, to confirm what the pastors say, but the thing is, it's always a young person, a younger banyan who's related to the deacons, so I think it's all rigged up, you know what I mean, between the pastor and them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd love to be in a church like that and just sit down with a panel discussion with them and ask them questions, and of course I'd want bodyguards between me and the congregation. But yeah, because when people get so loyal to the pastor, that's a form of idolatry, because people have to understand, the pastor is a sinner, just like everybody else, and is in that place, and he has a great deal of responsibility to speak, and he should speak to the best of his ability, according to the word of God, and he should not exceed what is written, 1 Corinthians 4-6, and that's what he should be doing, okay, 4-6, Brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sake, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other. God told me last night, I was talking to him, you know, let me tell you about it, bros, that was gone, because you know, God and I were like, hey bro, what's up, man, you're telling me to talk to me, yeah, uh-huh, you read what happens when the presence of God is on somebody in the Old Testament, they say, be gone from me, for I am a man of unclean lips, we have a lot of charlatans in the Christian church today, 70 percent, yeah, he now gets a day, the last 20 something years, oh yeah, it's been like this for a long time, because people don't trust the word of God, and like the first caller, they put the word of God under their own personal preferences, and their stuff like that, yeah, yeah, alright buddy, because God is our Abigail to say none of our wicked sinful selves, he's the purest holiest being, he's our Abigail to say nobody, amen, you got that right, that's right, amen, God bless you, Matt's quick, God bless you, Alberto, alright, let's get to Matt from Tennessee, Matt welcome, you're on the air with Matt, how's it going buddy, what a great name that is, anybody named Matt is obviously humble, good looking and intelligent, so obviously, there we are, and I'm a Bible teacher of theology myself, you are, hey, I am, good, in a Christian school here in Tennessee, but hey, one thing before my question, that first caller I kept thinking of you going, that's what it says, I was thinking of that too, and I almost said it, because I haven't said it for a while, but apparently, I'll have to do it, that's what it says, I've got a friend who rocks me on that, anyway go ahead, I've been in a study of eschatology, and I know there's so many different viewpoints, and myself, I'm an amillennialist, oh you're a smart man, you are smart, good, oh we've got a break, hold on Matt, alright buddy, hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, no open lines, so there you go, hey, stay tuned, and we'll be right back. I'm sorry, I just read something right before, so Richard says, because we're on video here also, he said Matt had a week off, but apparently he didn't get any beauty sleep, so he cracked me up, yeah that's true, I certainly didn't get any beauty sleep, that's for sure, alright let's get to Matt from Tennessee, hey Matt welcome back, you're back on the air, so my question was, I've been reading Matthew 24, and studying end time stuff, and I came across this verse that apparently I have just read over, but it caught me off guard, so I wanted to see what you said about this, so after talking about all the things that are going to take place with his disciples, he says in Matthew 24 verse 34, truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place, so I know the Preterist view says that that's talking about that generation of people, and then you've got people like Bertrand Russell that says this is one of those verses that proves Jesus was a liar because it didn't take place, so how can we understand, what do you think it means by this generation, because I'm an Amalanoist myself, and I know you are, so I wanted to take your take on that. I think it's a reference to the return of Christ, because he says, he says, tell us when will these things happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age, that's Matthew 24 verse 3, and he talks about perilous times, verse 15 on, glorious return 29, treble the fig tree in 32, and I think he's just answering the question this generation of the people, and then what's the generation, you know is it 40 years, is it, does it mean someone born on a particular day lives to be 100 and so you have 100 years and that generation won't pass away, so I don't know, but he gets on and says, you know, but no, that day, no one knows, the day nor the hour, etcetera, that's a wedding feast issue, but that's what I understand it to be, that's what I understand it to be, okay. Right and it's just weird that, I don't understand how, like, especially full Preterism will say that everything's already happened, like the return and everything, which makes absolutely zero sense to me, but this can't be the best thing going, this world's the best we've got to offer. Full Preterism is theoretical, but partial Preterism is acceptable, okay, so. Yeah, it's a weird thing, but one final thing, I just wanted to throw a thought out there to you from that first caller, then I'll promise I'll leave you alone, but when he was talking and having an issue with, you know, what the Bible actually says, what was that?

What is interesting is, a lot of people don't understand, like, especially the Universalists who'll say, like, you know, he died for all sin, for all time, for everyone who ever lived, and my response to that, which usually gets either them to get speechless or they want to get more argumentative, is, well then if that's the case, if he did that and he literally propitiated every single person sin who ever lived, then there's two things that we have to discuss, one being, then there would be no one in hell, because he propitiated everything, and two, if he did still sin people to hell after having propitiated, now we have a moral problem with God, who sent people to hell even though he already propitiated it, and so it literally can't mean that he died for that. But they'll say, oh, but you've got to accept it, and then I tell them, but there's nothing to accept, that that's gone, he canceled it, he propitiated it, so do you accept it, they can't put two and two together to get four, they put two and two together to get three and a half. So, yeah. Right. Yeah, I'm with you.

Well, anyway, hey, I appreciate that for all you do, and yeah, just know that there's a lot of times when I watch you that I'm just, I'm like, I hope he says, that's what it says, because you crack me up every time that you say that. Well, that's what it says. That's so true, it is what it says. That's what it says.

Just like how you're into that first guy. You don't have a... Yeah. Yes. That's what it says. You don't have a problem with me, you have a problem with the Word of God. That's what I told him. It's right.

He was submitting the Word of God to his... And what I do now lately, what I've been doing, I didn't do it this time, but I've been doing it online in other areas, I'll say, hey, I'll argue with somebody like that, and I'll say, could you do me a quick favor and look under your, on the floor, and they'll go, what, look on the floor, and under your shoes there, and I says, I'm checking to see if the Bible's down there, under your feet, because you're submitting it to your desire, you're so stupid. Oh, so funny. Well, anyway, I appreciate your ministry and your inspirations. I appreciate it. You have a wonderful day, okay? Hey, you too, man. God bless, man. All right.

Definitely. All right. Let's get to Maude.

We lost. Let's get to Mark from Connecticut. Mark, welcome. You're on the air.

Oh, hey, Matt. How you doing? Good. Doing all right. Hang in there.

What do you got, man? The order of the divine decrees with supralapsarianism and impralapsarianism, could you define those terms and then delineate on your viewpoint, please? Yeah. Let me just tell you, I don't really hold to either one of them, just so you know, okay? But what we're talking about here when we discuss this issue, supralapsarianism, deals with the issue of before the fall. Does God elect people for salvation before the consideration of the fall, where infralapsarianism would say that God elects people to salvation, looking into the fall and decides there.

And that's why I disagree with both of them. Because I don't like the idea of God looking before or after since... It's not as simple as this, but at any rate, because God knows all things eternally. And I think supralapsarianism, infralapsarianism, tend to deal with the issue of time and knowledge the way we relate to it, not the way God does.

Because supr and infra deal with order in time. And plus it also deals with logical order of what's going to come first, logically, is his election logically based upon looking into the fall and knowing all those in the fall? Of course it is.

Or outside the fall. Well, of course it is. Because God has an infinite number of potentialities he can actualize, and he chose to actualize one. And so he actualized that which was known to him.

And all knowledge of God is simultaneous and instantaneous. So I don't see how he could deliberate or cogitate in that area to then make a decision based upon things. That's a simple way of looking at it, but it gets more complicated in both of those issues. I lean towards infra, but not because of a temporal issue, but because of a logical one.

But I don't really go either one. Now what do counterfactuals lay in on any of this? Well counterfactuals, though those people don't know, are those things that don't exist that could have existed, and God knows them. They're not factual, they're counterfactuals. So Jesus said, if Sodom and Gomorrah had seen the miracles you've seen, they would have repented. That's a counterfactual. And the reason the counterfactuals can exist is because they exist in the knowledge and mind of God as a possible decree by which he would have brought him into existence under certain circumstances. So Jesus, being God in flesh, would know all counterfactuals as well as actualities. So that's just part of, parcel of what God's knowledge base is.

All knowledge, whether actual or potential, eternally. Okay? Yeah, thank you very much. You have a wonderful day. You too.

God bless. All right, let's get to Mark from Florida. Mark, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

How are you doing again? I got a question about Genesis chapter 1 and Genesis chapter 2. I had a friend of mine ask me, actually present an idea to me, and I have a question about it. Sure. Concerning the sixth day when man was created in chapter 1, he pointed me to Genesis chapter 2 and came up with the, well, presented the idea, I should say, that there's a possibility of a man, another man, created on the seventh day because of the chronological order. He's making a mistake. Yeah.

Okay. No, Genesis 2 is just a recapitulation from a different perspective on Genesis chapter 1. It's all in the text.

It's just a shortened version. So Genesis 1 is brilliantly laid out. It is absolutely brilliantly laid out. In fact, I was doing a Patreon video a couple nights ago, and I was going over a verse from a debate that I had on the 22nd, 23rd with the oneness guy, and I stumbled on something. For example, how genius Genesis 1 is, God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness. It's three plurals, let us make man in our image according to our likeness. And then in verse 27, he created man in his own image. He created him, male and female, he created them, three singularities. And so we have plurality and singularity woven into these two verses, and there's a Trinitarian sense to it. You know, just stuff like this is in there. And Genesis 2 is just a recapitulation, that's all it is, just a recapitulation of the one. So it's the same as the dated one.

Go ahead, sorry. Yeah, he pointed out, though, after the creation of animals, that there was man created. This is in particular Genesis chapter 2, and said, hey, look, it looks like it was the seventh day another man was created. And I don't know where he got that idea from, but I did a little re- If that's the case, then how is it that God rested on the seventh day, if he created on the seventh day? Thank you. Okay, that makes sense.

I also did a little research on this on my own, and I came across Shepherds Chapel, Arnold Murray, I know you're familiar with him. There's erroneous teachings there, and they have a doctrine, or he has a doctrine teaching that there's an eighth day man, and they refer to Genesis chapter 2 in particular. Well, let's just say that the people over at Shepherds Chapel definitely do not have altar pause in the litter box. I've got a standing debate challenge with them, I've had it for up to 10, 12 years, and every now and then I mention it, nothing.

Why is it they won't debate anybody? Oh, because they're going to waste their time with the Canites, they're very judgmental, very condemning. In fact, I can tell when someone emails me if they're a student of Shepherds Chapel. You said Canites, you're referring to the serpent seed doctrine that they teach? Yeah, they're called the Canites. But yeah, they're usually very rude people, very condemning, judgmental right away. Because they become like their teacher, and that's what he's like. I suspected that my friend told me this because he said he got it from his father, and I knew his father watched him on TV and followed his newsletters for years, and that validates it for me.

Thank you. And also, in light of that, look at Genesis 4-1. The Kenite theory is for those who don't know, topped by the false group called the Shepherds Chapel, is that Satan had physical relations with Eve and produced Cain, and so he's demonic, and the descendants of Cain are called the Kenites. So when someone talked to them, they called me a Kenite. They're being very insulting. But here's what it says in Genesis 4-1, how the man had relations with his wife, Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. The Scriptures teach that Cain was a result of the relations between Adam and Eve, not Satan and Eve.

But they don't care about truth, they care about their agenda. Yeah, that's definitely bad news. Thank you. That's right, man. All right, buddy. God bless. All right. We're going to get to Muskman from Ohio, people call to preach, I want to talk about that tomorrow.

Nathan from Utah, why should he convert to Christianity? Please call. And we'll talk about that tomorrow. And Steve from Utah, the Myth of the Gough, oh, that'll be interesting. Hey, folks.

My God's crazy. We're back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to them. See you. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.