The following program is recorded content created November 12th, 2021. And I hope you're gonna have a good day listening and hope you have some good callers.
We have nobody waiting right now. If you want to give me a call, We have hate mail, love and hate mail. And I used to read love and hate mail and stuff like that.
And some people actually tell them how they miss it. So because Fridays are sometimes slow, what I thought I would do is just go in and maybe do some hate mail. And I've already cracked it up because I saw this one link. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to do a little bit of hate mail, just kind of read through some stuff. And wow, look at this. Boy, I tell you. Jeez, I'm going to kick out of it.
OK, sorry. For those of you who don't know what's going on here, this is a Christian apologetics show. And we answer questions. So I hope you want to give me a call. We talk about everything spiritual from a Christian perspective. So if that sounds entertaining, then please give us a call. By the way, I'm supposed to be on Discord tonight doing an AMA, which is an Ask Me Anything.
And people just line up. They ask me questions. I answer questions.
A lot of atheists get in, and agnostics, Catholics, all kinds of people, Muslims. And we talk about all kinds of stuff. And I'll be doing that for an hour or two tonight. And if you want to join in, all you've got to do is, in a while, is I don't have the link up yet, but you've got to go to karm.org forward slash calendar. And I'll put the link up there tonight so that you can check it out, if you're willing.
You have to go to discord.com, sign up for an account, and go to the server, and be let in, and listen, and things like that. All right. So here we go. I haven't done this in a long time. So I'm going to read a little bit of hate mail.
I used to love it, and I think it's fun. So here we go. Let's see. Somebody sent me a link, and I watched a little bit of it. And I could actually, I got a kick out of it. There's this guy, and he hates certain people. He's a Christian guy, apparently. And at a certain point in the video, you could listen to him, explain why I'm a jerk.
And he loves being with James White, and calls me names, and things like this, and Dr. Gene Kim. And it's kind of funny that he calls me a jerk. But anyway, no big deal. I'm a jerk, OK? That's what he says. So I get a kick out of that.
All right. And then there's a, let's see. Well, Matt, you start your show with a lie. Lie after lie. He says, I don't care about facts.
I won't even look up your documentation. You poor thing. Oh, man. Those lies roll off your tongue like you've been practicing it for years. Wow. I mean, I love this stuff.
I don't want to get a kick out of it. So if you want to give me a call, by the way, folks, 877-207-2276. We have five more lies. And now he goes on.
He says, there's this one problem. You don't sound believable. You stammer when you try to fill the blanks between what actually happened and what you want your followers to believe. You sound like you are lying, and people aren't dumb. So people will believe you, but many won't. So some people will believe you. And the ones who see through your lies will question what else you're lying to them about. I get a kick out of that.
I think it's fun. And so let's see. OK, move that over there. And let's see. OK, all right. Now, how about this one?
Let's see. I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I visited the site today to get clarification of what the Bible says about abortion, specifically, their debate, blah, blah, blah.
Came across a new society. Come on, where's the insult? OK, I guess it's not.
It must have been mis-categorized. Let's try another one here. Good luck taking the mark of the beast, thanks to Gates, Fauci, et cetera, in order to take this trip. I'm sure the vaccine will be even more gene-altering by then, just think how much you will enable the enrichment of Satan's minions and how many people you will be leading down to hell for eternity.
Is this really worth a few moments of pleasure? The idol of hedonism looms large in today's world. This is in response to going to Israel.
We canceled the trip because of all the COVID stuff. We're going to go to Israel. And I got insulted for that.
All right, let's try this one. We never hear you sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. All you do is promote a political agenda. I'm tired of telling you this truth of this truth. You talk about the leftists and their agenda as if that was the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I do? I didn't know I talked about the leftist agenda as if it's the gospel. Wow, that's news to me. Every day I compare what people say about the Bible to what the Bible says. Most of the trash you discuss is not biblical.
Oh, man, I love that. I guess that's why I quote scripture all the time. And people call up. They go, look at this verse.
Go here, go here, go there. And so, let's see. It's obvious that you are an educated man. Bring people to Christ. All the socialism and counterculture is gibberish.
Most of the supporters must be the political right. OK, let's go on to this one. Let's see.
How about this one? Let's see. I'm praying for you, Mr. Slick. Wow.
As I'm praying for the lost who stumble across this site. Now, there you go. Now, that's a good insult. All right, if you're going to insult me, that's a good way to start off. I could give that a grade.
So far, it's about a seven or an eight. You really get in there. I'm praying for you, Mr. Slick, as I'm praying for the lost who stumble across this site. See, it's a good, right there, it's a direct.
You have to read a lot to get to it. If you are an example of Christ's love, who would want to be like you or join you? It is people like you who are responsible for the decline of faith among the young. You wreak hate, and I discern evil.
Satan himself is governing your website, and you are a willing puppet. May God have mercy on your soul. Do not use one word of my message.
Nothing that will be polluted by you and your efforts to send lost souls to hell. Wow. I mean, come on. That's pretty tough. I'm going to kick out of it. OK, look, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. What do you guys think in the chat? Do you guys like this email?
I've had people tell me they want me to start doing hate mail again. So I am. I'm doing it again. OK. All right, let's see.
I enjoy watching you on YouTube. I find it hilarious that your discussion on Discord, that your discussion on Discord, that are available and debates between you and Malpass, Delahunty, et cetera, where you constantly try deflecting tactics. OK. I am positive, this is good, positive now more than ever that you are just willingly, willfully ignorant. These are just, these are, some people don't write well. These are very intelligent people who point out obvious problems with the arguments.
The biggest is tag, which is simply you begging the question, great proof for God. You are clearly a intellectually dishonest snake oil salesman with very heavy narcissistic personality. Oh, man. I like that. That's pretty good. OK, I think that's good. All right, now look, folks, if you want to give me a call, I want you to give me a call.
877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call, and we can talk. OK, we've got five open lines.
So maybe come out there and talk to you and point a finger at you. All right, here's another one. Pastor Arnold Murray is the best. I've learned a lot from him. Pastor, he's a wacko. It's a false teacher. There is no rapture.
Of course there is, but this guy just, you know, anyway. You won't find it in the Bible. Oh, yes, you will. It's in 1 Thessalonians 4, 16 through chapter 5, verse 2. It says, I've learned about the Antichrist and a lot of other true things. Her, her, H-R, hatred, reads out of God's word.
He reads chapter by chapter, verse by verse. If you were a real Christian, you would know not to judge. God is the judge. Pastor Murray is awesome.
You should be ashamed of yourself for bashing him the way you are. Seems to me you're the one people should stay away from. There you go.
That's not bad. No, Pastor Murray's a false teacher. I have documentation on the website. So there you go. Let's see one more. Oh, let's see.
We'll get to the callers who are coming in. Let's see, it's a prophet called upon by the most holy father in these last days. I'm here to tell you. Oh, this is good. This is a prophet.
Guy's name's Larry, Larry the prophet. As a prophet called upon by the most holy father in these last days, I'm here to tell you that the words coming out of your mouth are not of the Holy Spirit, but by an egotistical, boaster, braggart, lover of self, reviler, and bully. That's awesome. Wow. Oh, man, that is good. OK. The words coming out of your mouth are not of the Holy Spirit, but by an egotistical, boaster, braggart, lover of self, reviler, and bully. You know, there's not many people who could insult me as well as that.
That's good. OK, where is the love that is so special through the Father's Holy Spirit? You're only showing people what you know and how smart you are, which is not of the Father, his Spirit, his Son. You bring about chaos and cause confusion and try to make the born-again Christian doubt his faith and his salvation.
Wow. This is of the evil one. And all the characteristics that you have showed me mentioned earlier in the letter is destined to be cast into the lake of fire. You need to get on the ground and beg the Father for his forgiveness of such waywardness you exhibit.
I'm halfway through this, then we'll get to the callers. I am baptized by the Lord through the Father's Holy Spirit. I ask the Father to please help me say the right words to you so you will listen not to me, but what the Spirit is trying to say to you. Wow, this guy is, wow, he's a prophet.
Man. OK. And I truly feel you have not the Spirit, nor have you been born again. You are using an mortal mind, talking of spiritual things. You cannot discern spiritual thinks if you are not of the Father's Spirit.
Pray for the Father to forgive you and get back to your feet again, on your feet again, doing what he is wanting you to do for him, not Matt Sleck. Peace be unto you forever and always. OK. Larry, he won't give his last name, but he's a prophet apparently.
And oh man, I love that kind of stuff. All right, three open lines, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. All right, Dylan from Ohio, welcome. You're on the air. Hello there.
Hello. And I appreciate you reading that mail, though I'd like to say I do enjoy listening to you on my way home from work. OK. And you like the hate mail, huh? Let's read the compliments that you get sometimes, because I'm sure you get those too, right? Yeah, I get a lot of them. But they're not as fun as the hate mail. The hate mail is really enjoyable. And I love mail. I have 192 thank yous.
And when I was just reading, it was about 125 of them. So anyway. So what do you got, big man?
What's up? Yeah, my question. Yeah, so being a fisher of men was something that is preached about. So what are three things that Yeshua, Jesus, did that made him a good fisher of men? We saw the quiz.
Three things he did that made him a good fisher of men. I'll tell you why. We'll have to hold off, think through it during the break. Let's see if I can pass the test, all right? Hey, folks, we have three open lines. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show, everyone.
Dylan, Dylan from Ohio. I have a question. What three traits of Jesus made him a good fisher of men, right?
Right? Yeah, as a student to a teacher. Yeah, it's a problem. It's a problem because there is no standard by which we can hold Jesus to, to say that he is a good fisher of men. It's like saying, Jesus, who's God in flesh, here are the three things we know about.
This is why he's good. That would mean, then, that Jesus, who's God in flesh, is subject to a standard that is not based on his own nature and nature. The reason Jesus is a good fisher of men comes down to one ultimate thing, because he's God in flesh, period. All the properties that emanate out of his essence and his nature, those are the things and the parts of which we then observe.
Out of his goodness, which is his nature, he told the truth, he performed miracles, he died for us, and he did all the things necessary, et cetera, et cetera. Okay? Yeah, I appreciate that. Okay. Sure. But your answer is there's more than three. You can't sum it up to three. Okay.
I don't think I understand that. So what are three things that I could work on or your listeners could work on to follow Yeshua? To work on?
Oh, three things we should work on. Okay. Yeah.
Well, in that case, different question. So what we do to emulate Christ is Jesus, who's God in flesh, was humble, he taught, he served, he died, he performed miracles. Okay.
These are the kinds of things that he did and we're to emulate him as much as we can. Okay. Are you there? Yeah, that's good. I appreciate it. Sure. Okay. You got anything else? Take care.
No, that's all. I'm headed to the barbershop. All right.
Clean the outside of the glass as well as the inside. So I appreciate it. Oh, you're a window cleaner? I'm a what? A window cleaner. I had that job for a while, cleaning windows. I enjoyed it. It was fun. No, I'm not a window cleaner. I'm going to get my hair cut.
I work at Amazon. I thought you said you had to clean the inside the window and outside the window. That's all.
The inside of the vessel as well as the outside of the vessel. Ah, okay. Now I got you.
Me being the vessel. All right. I got you.
I plan to continue to listen. I appreciate it. All right, man. Well, good. God bless. All right, Dylan. All right.
That was Dylan. Hey, we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.
Let's get to Jose from Texas. Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, man. How's it going? It's going well. Okay.
Hey, I have a question. I was listening to this pastor, theologian. I forgot his name. And he was talking about the carnal Christian doctrine.
And I would like to know a little bit more about it. And I guess he used 1 Corinthians 3. I'm not sure how the verse goes. So anyways, he was, sorry? Yeah, okay. I think I know what you're talking about, which verse. But go ahead.
Yeah, yeah. But anyways, so he was saying how the carnal Christians are still saved. But, you know, because of their being on a carnal state, I guess when they go to heaven, I'm sorry, they're still secured, their salvation is still secured, but they'll get less reward.
Can you explain that a little bit? How is a carnal Christian still saved, even though he's still in a, I guess you want to call it, in a fleshy state in his life? How does that work, I guess, in Christian life? It's a tough one to kind of get through because what he's talking about in 1 Corinthians 3, and I, brethren, could not speak to you as a spiritual man, but as men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food for you, for you were not able to receive it. Indeed, even now you're not even able, for you are still fleshly, for since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly? Are you not walking like mere men? And then he goes on, he says, you know, I'm of Paul, I'm of Paulus. And what he's doing is he's talking to the Corinthians.
Now we can assume in the Corinthian church there were really believers, and there were really people who were not believers, who were just going there, checking things out, who might be false converts. So when he talks, Paul often will say, you know, you guys need to repent, and people will say, see, that means they're Christians and they're going to hell. You know, he's talking to a group. But he does say, he says, I gave you milk, and you were not able to receive it. He says, you're still fleshly. And he says, why? Because of jealousy and strife.
So this is the context that he's talking about. So can Christians have jealousy and strife? The answer is yes, they can. Can Christians make mistakes?
Can they walk in the flesh to some degree? No, I'm not saying they're out there murdering and stealing and all that stuff, and that's all they're doing, and they get to go to heaven. That's not what we're talking about. But you can have Christians in a group who are just not acting like they're supposed to be acting. You know, and I've seen it in groups and places where Christians get gossipy.
They start talking about other people. Well, that's fleshly. It doesn't mean they're not Christians. But it does mean that they need to repent of those kinds of sins and follow Christ. And he says, are you not fleshly?
And are you not walking like mere men? He's saying, if you're a Christian, let's see it. Start acting like it. Don't gossip. Don't have strife and jealousy and he-said, she-said, lack of humility.
Don't look to others as who you identify with. And now you've just got me thinking, because some people will say, I am of the pope. I'm a Catholic. I follow Peter.
And this is fleshly. Now we're supposed to follow Christ. And so that kind of stuff. Okay? Okay, yeah. So I guess this question leads to another question, which is the eternal security.
So I'm not too sure. I forgot the theologian name. But he made a statement saying that, well, if we have eternal security, all it requires is to believe that's all you need. But anyway, so he just said that in order for a believer, a person to be saved, of course, to be, to believe in Jesus Christ, which, you know, it's obvious. It's in Ephesians 2.8. But he was making a assertion that a Christian can live fleshly in a carnal state, but still be saved. And they asked him a question, well, if a Christian is still, let's say, like, they give an example, right? If a person is still practicing sin on occasion, let's say, for example, watching pornography, is that person still saved?
And because of the eternal security, he said that they're still saved because he believed in Christ. But I guess it kind of does. Let me help you out. Let me help you out.
Let me help you out. Okay? Right.
All right. So the issue of eternal security is whether or not we can lose our salvation. Now, Jesus says in John 6, 37 through 40, speaks in there. He says, all that the Father gives him, he will not cast out because it's the will of the Father that he not lose any. That's John 6, 37, 38, 39.
So Jesus can't lose any until that's eternal security. Now, when we get back, we'll talk about this and how it relates to our sinfulness. Okay? Hey, folks, three open lines. You're going to give me a call. 877-207-2276.
I'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show.
We're at the bottom of the hour. I want to let you know that we're moving over to YouTube. We're moving to YouTube, away from YouTube, over to Odyssey. We've got some bugs to work out there, but O-D-Y-S-E-E, if you want to check it out, it's growing. We'd ask that you'd go to odyssey.com, just sign up, just log in, sign up. It's real easy.
Then search for CARM, C-A-R-M, and then just follow us here on CARM. We're growing, and that's good. So we're going to be using that because it's a format where they're not going to answer you for being Christians and stuff. We're preparing for a possible situation where the left, the liberals, demand tolerance and will penalize you if you're not tolerant to everybody.
So they're intolerantly demanding tolerance, and so if you don't comply, they kick us off. And one of the things we're concerned about also is financial stuff and what the left and their power to be able to turn off your accounts and things like this. So we're moving stuff over to safer areas so that we can continue ministering to people. And one of the ways we're doing that is odyssey, O-D-Y-S-E-E, dot com.
Go check it out if you want, and we would love that. And also one last thing before we get back to the caller is that I'm doing Patreon videos. And as the economy is affecting all kinds of people, including the finances at CARM, well, I'm just letting you know that there is a way to support this ministry, me in particular, because I have not had a raise in this ministry in five or six years, maybe seven. I don't remember. I didn't even worry about it anymore.
And as the cost of living goes up, of course, you know, it's not good. So if you're interested in supporting what I do, you can go to Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, dot com, forward slash Matt Slick. Just patreon.com forward slash Matt Slick, and you can help sign up for a little bit. And that's a big way to help as well. All right.
Jose from Texas, welcome. You're back on the air. Okay.
You there? Yeah. All right. So Jesus said before the break, I was telling you, he says that the will of the Father is that of all that he's given, been given by the Father, that Jesus lose none. So Jesus isn't going to lose any because that's the will of the Father.
Now, people will sometimes say, oh, you're going to lose yourself. But that's not what the issue is about is between the Father and the Son. This is the will of the Father, that all that he's given me, I will lose none.
But raise it up on the last day. The will of the Father is that all who are given to the Son is that he will resurrect them and that all who believe in the Son will be resurrected. So whoever believes, that means you're a believer at one point. You don't become an unbeliever, you're a believer and that can get under the exegesis. But now, all right, so can a Christian sin?
And the absolute answer is, well, yes. Now, is it okay to sin? It is not okay to sin. I'm not advocating sin. I'm not saying that we can sin all we want, you know, and go out and do bad and evil things and it's still fine.
That's not what I'm saying. But we have to understand, our salvation is not dependent upon our works, even though there are false religious systems that teach that it is. Like faith and your works gets you saved and that's a false doctrine. If you don't get your salvation by your works, you don't lose it by your works. So what do we do with a Christian then who, let's say, starts slipping?
Let's say he's really regenerate and he starts sliding. And he starts doing a little bit more bad stuff and he might be aware, he should be aware, by the conviction of the Holy Spirit that it's wrong and he just continues to do it anyway. Well then, if this continues and continues, one of the things that God might do with that individual is kill him, is actually take him out. And you find this kind of a thing in 1 Corinthians 5 and also Acts chapter 5, where people who were supposed to be serving God were executed by God.
Well, in Acts 5 they were. And in 1 Corinthians 5, Paul said he gives the one who is committing some sexual sin, he said deliver him over to the destruction of his flesh. So his soul will be saved the day of judgment. So a lot of Christians don't realize that God takes our walk with him seriously. This is why when I talk to people about becoming Christians, and I say look, you need to trust in Christ, which is true. You need to turn from your sins, which is true. You need to believe and receive the gift of salvation that Christ has given, and that's true.
And I warn them, but if you do this, you have to understand something. Because God's real and he'll live in you, he's going to change you. He's going to work on you. He's not going to leave you as you are. God will take you as you are, but he won't leave you as you are. God will work through you.
And you have to be willing to be shaped. When I first became a Christian, nobody told me what I was going to have to go through. And I'm telling you, the stuff I've been through, and maybe you too and others out there listening, it's just incredible some of the stuff you've gone through. And as far as sanctification and development, I'm sure you can relate. So with those of us in that situation who would then turn our backs on God and walk in sin when we know better, God may very well take you out. And so this is the concern. So I don't know if that helps any, but are you there? Yeah, it helps a lot.
And I just want to ask you because I like your answer better. And I just feel like even though he didn't advocate, he denied a license to sin, but it is beneficial to me. But when she said it, God is more meaningful. Yeah, and it all depends on how a person is saying something and the context or saying it. And so you can say it better one day and not so good the other day and things like that. And I've done that many times, preaching and teaching.
It just didn't come out right. And that happens. But we are secure in Christ, and we can't lose our salvation, but it's not an excuse to sin, and if people do start treating it as an excuse to sin, or they can sin anyway, then God will discipline them. And this is just part of what it means to be a Christian.
And so we need to take it very seriously. This is why, like I said, I talk to people about becoming Christians. I warn them, you better count the cost.
You better count the cost and know what you're getting into. Don't give Jesus a try for two weeks to see if your life gets better and your girlfriend comes back to you. You don't try Jesus.
You commit your life to Christ, as he will be your Lord, and he will live in you, and he's going to start working on you. And it's not fun sometimes. It's not. But other times it's wonderful, but it's reality. Amen. Amen. Amen, brother.
Thanks for the answer, and we'll be talking soon. All right, man. God bless, buddy. All right. Have a good day.
You too, man. Good. All right, folks, four open lines.
If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Terry from Montreal. Terry, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you very much.
Thank you for the hospitality. I came to challenge you on your understanding of your position on the Incarnation, since I think you hold to the classical Orthodox position, and I believe that's heresy. The hypostatic union? Yes, I believe that's heresy, according to Scripture. First of all, can you define what the hypostatic union is that you think is heresy?
To keep it simple, in layman terms, you believe that the Messiah, Jesus Christ, while he was on earth, had two natures, a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. Is that good enough? Yeah, except I would say he had then and he still does now. He still has it now? Yes, he's a man right now. He has two distinct natures simultaneously. I believe that's total heresy. Why do you believe it's heresy? I actually challenge you to debate this on the standing for truth ministry. I don't know if he contacted you, but I'm debating with somebody else.
I wanted to debate you on this, because I think you're a little more popular. But I'll give you one example of why this is heresy. If your position is that the Messiah is fully man and fully divine on earth, how would you respond to Psalms 2-7 that says, today I have begotten you, therefore relegating the Messiah to temple space? So basically, if you were to apply Psalms 2-7, or your understanding of the incarnation to Psalms 2-7, that would mean his eternal nature was begotten as well.
So as opposed to John 1-18 that says he is begotten from the bosom of the Father. Hold on, hold on, hold on. All right, with respect and trying to be polite, you don't understand the eternal nature of the begotten Son and what it means? You don't know? Go ahead, edify me. Okay. Edify me.
Okay. Now let me ask you, do you affirm or do you deny the doctrine of the Trinity? I don't use the word Trinity. I put it in quotation. I like more the Godhead.
Okay, let me try this. Do you deny or affirm that God is one being who has three simultaneous and distinct persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? I believe, I believe, yes.
One being, three persons. Okay, so the word is divine, right? Yes, definite. Okay. Oh, I got a break.
In your Bible, during the break, turn to Ephesians 1 to 4, okay? And then we'll talk about it. I'll show you something, okay? Yeah, no problem.
All right. Hey, folks, we have four open lines. We're going to give you a call.
This should be interesting. And we'll be right back after these messages, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome to the show. Welcome back. We have three open lines. We're going to give you a call, 877-207-2276.
Terry, are you still there? Yeah. What was the verse that you referred me to?
Ephesians 1-4. Okay. 1-4? Go ahead. Yeah.
Now, from understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're thinking that begotten means that there's a temporality with Christ that's not possible if he's divine. No, no, listen, I want to make sure you understand my position. Okay. That way you don't argue a point that I never made.
Good. So John 1-18 says he's the only begotten son who is in the bosom of the Father. So that shows that he is begotten from eternity, as per Micah 5-2.
Okay. So as per his nature, he is eternal, because he is from the very nature of the Father. I'm bringing you to Psalms 27 that shows that the Messiah is begotten today, which means temporal space, relegated to temporal space. So the Messiah himself, if you're saying the embodiment of Messiah is begotten today, that would also relegate his eternal nature to temporal space, which is a contradiction. So I'm, because my position is, of the incarnation is that the God, the Son was still in heaven as per John 3-13, while he projected his light. And at the end of that light, there was a body prepared for him as per Psalms 40 verse 6 and 7, according to the Greek Septuagint. So he was in heaven while he was on earth, but he was fully man on earth at the end of the projection of that light. So that is the distinction with all the scripture. So was Jesus, was Jesus also divine while on earth? No, he wasn't. Okay.
Because he was fully a man as per scripture. Okay. All right. All right. So you're the heretic. All right.
I'm just checking. Can you prove that scripturally? Because I brought you Psalms 27, you haven't responded. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay.
So when you quote verses, you know, we always like to look at them in context. And what you're doing is, you need to let me finish, I hope. Are you still there?
We lose them? Yeah, I'm still there. Somebody's calling. You can talk. I'm listening.
Okay. So it says, today I've begotten you. That's from written Psalm about a thousand years before Christ.
So how then has he begotten 2000 BC? Can you answer that one? Are you there?
Give me a second. I'm trying to hear what you said. Can you repeat? Okay.
Hello? Yes. Psalm 2. Yeah, can you repeat what you said? Yes, I'm trying. You got a lot of noise in the background there. Psalm 2.
Yeah, I had to open the door, I'm sorry. Psalm 2 was written about a thousand BC. It says right then, today I've begotten you. So what does the Psalmist mean when he says today, a thousand BC, that he'd begotten the Son?
What does that mean? Oh, that's a prophetic statement saying what would happen to the Messiah. So it's prophetic. Okay, good.
No problem. So it's prophetic when Jesus is born, right? Exactly.
I say it refers to his baptism. Well, you're incorrect. But that's another issue.
You're incorrect. Let me ask you. So you're telling me then that Jesus was not God in flesh, right?
He was not fully divine on earth, no. Okay. Well then let me ask you a question.
Let me ask you. The human nature died, right, on the cross? Yes. The human person died, yes.
Yes. So how is it that the sacrifice was of divine value if only the human nature died? Because he humbled himself as per Philippians 2.7. The fact that he humbles himself is not something that takes away from his divine prerogative. Okay, well hold on.
Hold on. So humility doesn't make you divine. So at Philippians 2, 5-8 you're talking about the kenosis. But the thing is, I'm asking you, if only his human nature died, how's the sacrifice of divine value if only the human nature died? It's divine because he humbled himself. The fact that he humbled himself doesn't take away from who he is from eternity past. So then Jesus is God in flesh on the cross, right? I think I made myself clear from the very beginning.
No, you're not. That he is fully man on earth. Okay, hold on. While being divine in heaven. Hold on, hold on. Okay.
On the cross. Because you seem to be confused on my position. So that's why I'm trying to explain it to you. No, you're confused on your own position because there's inconsistency in it. I'm trying to show it to you.
Which part? I'm trying to show it to you. Okay, go ahead. Be careful. Okay, you know, when I'm talking, it really doesn't work.
It just jumps right in, okay? All right? So I'm trying to tell you.
I'm quiet right now. Okay, so Jesus was not divine by his person, right? Is that correct? Then why would Jesus say that I will be with you always even at the end of the earth when he was on earth? Because he's relaying the message that comes from heaven. No, he says I will be with you always.
Yeah, I know. So that's Jesus. Jesus will be with you always, right? How is that possible if he's not God in flesh? If he's just a man, he could be with everybody always everywhere.
How is that possible? I got your point. He's not with us as per his human nature, obviously. I made a clear from John 3.13, which says that the Son of Man is in heaven while he's on earth. So he was still in heaven as he is the light of the Father.
No, it doesn't say that. Can I just finish my statement so that way you know my position? Because I said that from the very beginning.
He is the Son of Man in heaven at the end of the projection of that light that the body prepared for him. Okay, okay. I'm going to have to mute the guy. You can tell that there are people like this. They don't listen. They only want to talk. And they don't really know how to engage in a real dialogue. And one of the evidences you can see is I'll ask a question, and the question is ignored and they go to something else. And then they repeat what they say. I get that.
I respond to it, ask them the question, they ignore it, and they go on. And he went to John 3.13, which says that Jesus was in heaven and on earth at the same time. What John 3.13 says is no one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven the Son of Man. So Jesus has descended from heaven. This is a demonstration of his deity. That's what it is.
So the verse doesn't say what this guy says it says. Now, Terry, are you there? Terry?
Terry? Okay, I guess you can't answer? Oh, I have to... Are you there, buddy? Yeah, I'm there. I'm listening.
I'm listening. All right. Okay. Sorry. I clicked the wrong button.
Sorry about that. So when you code the verse, the verse doesn't say what you said. Now, Jesus... No, no. You misquoted John 3.13. If you want me to read it for you, I can read it for you. No, I was reading it to you out of the NASB.
No. No one has... You didn't quote it properly. Okay, stop for a second. Stop, stop, stop. No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
That's the NASB. I'm reading it. Okay. No, it says, no man has ascended up to heaven, but he who came down from heaven, even the Son of Man who is in heaven. So he is in heaven while being a man on earth.
Again, my position is totally consistent because I said he is the Son of Man in heaven. Hold up. Okay, we're done.
Okay. So I just hung up on him. See, folks, this is a... It's a certain mentality, a certain attitude that it does not conduce to good discussion when he makes a statement and then continues to go.
I call it verbal carpet bombing. And he's not listening. He's not interacting. He only wants to teach. And there are several areas that he doesn't understand.
I'm trying to work with him slowly and patiently. And what he did was he was reading out of what looks like the King James Version. It says, he who is in heaven. It's not in the NASB version at all. And I'll just check other versions to see what's going on. But that's right.
It's not there. And it's only in the King James Version that it's there. And then we have what's called an issue of textual variation. And so he's going out of the King James.
And the Douay-Rheims uses the same thing. So when we have... This is one of the things we've got to talk about. When we have a discrepancy in manuscript tree evidence, then that becomes an issue. And he says, who is in heaven, which I would not have a problem with theologically either. But that's not really what the text is saying. This guy apparently is not teachable.
And that's a problem. Let's get to Nana from North Carolina. Nana, welcome.
You're on the air. Mr. Slick, nice to speak with you. Hey, man. Is that your name? Nana?
That's what it says, but I don't know what your real name is. Nana. Yes, sir. It's N-N-A-N-N-A.
It's a Nigerian name. Oh, cool. All right. I like that. So what do you got, man? Okay. So thank you for taking my call for one.
And my question is basically regarding Lutheranism. I'm not sure I've... I'm sorry. Did I interrupt you? No, no, no. No. Okay. That's all right.
Okay. As far as I've been learning this year, basically, I've been understanding that they have a whole different system of soteriology than we Calvinists do. So I'm trying to understand with the baptismal regeneration and the possibility of falling away from the faith that they believe in, how serious an error is their soteriology?
Oh, I believe it's a serious error. Just so you know, I have a bachelor's degree from a Lutheran college. And I took all of the theology classes from that Lutheran college. And then I ended up going to a Presbyterian seminary. So they do teach the idea that in baptism, say, for example, an infant can be saved by the baptism.
And I deny that. They also teach that you can lose your salvation, though it's very difficult. It's not just that you do a couple of bad things, you lost your salvation. It is that you have to willingly reject and continue to reject what Christ has done for you.
And then you can lose it. So that's our position. And I don't believe either one is true. And I remember taking the theology classes at Christ College Irvine at the time, and it changed its name to Concordia University, and it's in Irvine, California. And I remember talking about it, and I would say to the teachers, wait a minute, are you telling me then that you get saved in your baptism? And they'd say, and I remember at the best of my memory, it was, well, yes, but, and there was a but to it.
And I could never nail down exactly what that but was. And so for the most part, they do affirm that, which I think is wrong. Okay. Okay.
Well, that's, that's all very helpful. I guess I'm because I've known some people who will hold to some Lutheran sounding theology, or they are Lutheran. And I'm wondering, you know, how does that relate to or how does that compare with the Galatian heresy? Well, I guess it wasn't the Galatian heresy, what were the Judaizers were teaching, right? Do you see any parallels between those or what would you say?
Because, and yes, I do. Now, the Judaizers were saying you have to get circumcised in order to be saved. That was what was needed to do. But the Lutherans don't teach you have to be baptized in order to be saved.
They teach that from what I best I can remember, and I graduated 1987. So, from there, so it's been a while, but that baptism upon, particularly in an infant state, confers salvation upon that child. And that they are in that state of, of salvation by the fact of their baptism and the covenant that God has bestowed guaranteeing them a place in heaven.
It's kind of a participation or salvation by participation in covenant. It gets interesting and their position is, in my opinion, difficult to understand. But we're out of time. Would you call back on Monday to talk about it? Okay. Some more. Okay. Thank you very much. All right, man. God bless. All right. Have a nice night. You too. Hey, folks, we're out of time and I'll put on karm.org forward slash calendar where I'm going to be on the server on Discord answering questions tonight. Have a great weekend. God bless. Have a great weekend.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-07-22 17:51:29 / 2023-07-22 18:11:59 / 21