Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at KARM.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Everybody, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. I hope you want to give me a call.

The number is 877-207-2276. We've got a wide open lines. All right. Literally, I was hustling to get water right before it came up the stairs here, so I'm a little out of breath.

So that's why I'm breathing heavily. I had to hustle. All right. So look, we have four open lines.

Give me a call. Oh, I forgot to change my shirt again. Darn it.

I get so busy. Dang it. Oh, my wife was complaining. You can't wear shirts like that. You're going to wear nice stuff.

And she's right. I just got so busy. Okay. So I'll probably be getting kicked off at YouTube here pretty soon. And just let people know. And so what we're going to do is we're going to replace it with Odyssey.

And we're going to be putting a lot of stuff, the Odyssey gab rumble and covering the bases. And the reason is because an atheist is complaining that the stuff I've said about COVID and masks don't port with the official status quo given by the government and YouTube and Facebook and things like that. And so they're saying, nope, you're not allowed to have that freedom of speech. Even though I've documented what I've said very clearly on the website, and I asked this guy, I said, look, you know, what are you doing? I said, here's my documentation. And he won't even look at it. And I asked, where's your documentation of the contrary? I'm not falling for that.

He doesn't care about any facts. He just wants me off. So I'll probably be kicked off pretty soon. And you know what?

Okay. I'm used to attacks. And it vindicates what I do, actually. I've always thought that about bullies.

I consider him a bully. And bullies motivate me to do even more. And it just, it does, tells you focus.

I don't know why it's just that way, but that's what it is. Just getting a little FYI. And yes, I don't believe the masks are necessary, and I'm suspicious of the vaccines. That's my opinion.

It's my research. Am I allowed to say that? Apparently not, even though the First Amendment says I have the right of free speech and to give my opinion. But I'm not allowed to have that kind of a thing. Why?

Because the brown shirt lockstep marchers march in a location marching and looking towards the left. Don't like that. They don't allow it. All right.

Four open lines. 877-207-2276. Let's get to Anonymous again from Alabama. Hey, welcome. You're back on the air. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. Sure. Here's my question. And I called in kind of late last night. You asked me to call back, so I wanted to call back.

Sure. And what we were discussing was the fact that Christians are all reading the same Bible, and that we're supposedly all inspired by the same Holy Spirit. Why is there so little unity in Christian theology?

That's right. In fact, it seems like to me that really our culture is probably a better dictator of what we think more so than any real consistency across cultural lines in the church. Is that a clear question, or should I clarify? Well, you had the question, then you added a bunch of stuff, so now you got confused. So your question is, why is it the Christian churches aren't more united in doctrine? Yes, sir.

Okay. It's because their eyes are on other things than besides Jesus. Now, when I say something like that, a lot of people are going to say, Matt, that is not a fair statement. Well, why isn't it a fair statement? You see, I'm a hardcore five-point Amillino, Peter Baptist, non-sensational, covenantal Calvinist.

That's me. I can defend it, and I will defend it. But we have people working with us who don't believe that, and I don't quiz them. I make sure they're within orthodoxy, the essentials of the faith. They have a difference of opinion. They go, okay, because our eyes are on Christ. We want to further his kingdom, and we're seeking to do it together, and we admit that we could be wrong. I'm saying, I believe I'm right, but it's possible I could be wrong.

So I want to look to Jesus. They say the same thing. And Charlie, who's with me here on almost every single show, and he helps coordinate some of the stuff and does stuff with Carm, he doesn't affirm all the stuff I do. That's okay. I don't care.

I know him, and he works for the glory of God. And we disagree on some stuff. I don't care.

Seriously, I don't care, because that's not the issue. And so, in my opinion, churches divide because their eyes are on a doctrinal point rather than Christ's. Now, I've got to be careful when I say that, because if someone, you know, we can't divide, excuse me, we must properly divide over the essentials, the doctrine of the Trinity, the hypostatic union, the issue of Jesus, God, and flesh, that is, justification, imputation, salvation by grace, resurrection of Christ. These are the essentials of the faith.

We can't deviate on those. But what if you're all male or pre-male, or pre-trib rapture or post-trib rapture, or believe in continuation of the gifts or not? Now, we have the right to be able to gather to ourselves those teachers that we think are teaching biblically, but we've got to be very, very careful when we look down our noses at others and say, they don't worship God in truth like we do. And I've just quoted something that happened when I was a pastor, senior pastor at a small church in Moreno Valley, California, when I was doing Bible study and people were snotting on Calvary Chapel. And I used to attend Calvary Chapel. And I don't agree with everything Calvary Chapel says. And this one woman said, we worship God in truth, not like they do at Calvary Chapel. Not like they do at Calvary Chapel, and I took umbrage with it. I said, would you be careful what you're saying? And I started to teach as a pastor.

And long story short, that began the process of them kicking me out. So you see, people get their eyes on a doctrine or on an attitude instead of, is it glorifying the Lord Jesus? And is it furthering his kingdom? And do I have the right to impose my will on others on debatable issues, especially when it says in Romans 14. I'm going to read what Romans 14 says, the first five verses, because it's important.

I call Romans 14 the forgotten chapter. Now, except the one who's weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he was weak, eat vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt. The one who does not eat and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls and he will stand for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. So you see, when I read that, each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. If I were to go to Charlie, my friend, and I would say, Charlie, what do you think about XYZ doctrine?

It's not essential. Let's just say infant baptism. I affirm infant baptism not for salvation, but as a covenant sign. Let's say he doesn't. Okay, I'm instructed that in his good conscience before God, he's convinced in his own mind.

He just says, I am in mine. Now, who's right? I believe I'm right. He might believe he's right, but we can't both be right. So one of us is going to be corrected when we get to heaven. Okay, in the meantime, we love each other, and we say we're gracious because others have differences of opinions according to what they honestly believe in scripture, and that's the key. And so in that, we can have unity, and that's what we're supposed to be having. And when we put our eyes more on our doctrinal divisions in the non-essentials in the Adiaphora, that's why we have so many problems.

That's why the church becomes defective and ineffective. Okay? Yeah, I've thought about this a lot over the years. A lot. Well, so let me ask you this, and I don't know how much time we have in this. I don't want to be courteous to your listeners, but... That's okay. I'm in control. I'll tell you if there's a problem. Don't worry about it. So keep going. You're all right.

Well, but you've kind of picked out some really easy things. You know, what about, and I'm thinking more historically speaking, not just about matters of baptism or, you know, the elements of the Lord's Supper. You know, in the South, pre-Civil War South, Caucasians believed that slavery was perfectly acceptable, and they had Bible verses they would think. And even to today, you know, the most segregated hour of our week is going to be the Sunday morning hour.

You know, African Americans, and they're getting political things here. They've got real specific ideas about how, about the way they see culture, the way they see the Bible. And right now, there's a vein in the white evangelical church that feels very opposed to some of those same ideas. And, you know, it's the same Holy Spirit reading the same Bible, and it's, you know, part of me, and I mentioned last night that I've been struggling with this God in the last few years. And to me, you know, from 10,000 feet up, it looks a little bit more like, are people really governed by the Holy Spirit, people really governed by what they see in the Bible, or are they really more governed by the way they grew up, where they grew up? Right, exactly.

And how much of this is just kind of putting, how much of this is putting Jesus on what I already believe? That's right. You're on the right track. You're on the right track.

How much is it because of their culture rather than scripture? One of the things people say that I do to them is upset them. I get this a lot when someone says, I've been listening to your radio when I first started listening to you, I did not like what you said. And I always chuckle.

I always smile. I go, yep. And I usually get them follow up with, and I kept listening and kept finding out, well, you kept quoting the verses. That's what it says.

Yep, that's right. People don't want to be challenged. When I do seminars, for example, and I do a doctrine seminar, I'll ask for a show of hands. And I've said this before the radio, I'll say, let's say there's a hundred people there. And I'll say, show me from hands, how many believe that God exists? You know, all the hands go up. How many believe in the Trinity? All hands go up. And I say, now, whoever raises your hand next, next, I'm going to ask you to give an answer publicly.

Can you define what the Trinity is? Maybe, maybe two hands will go up and I'll call on them. And they usually do okay. And I have to correct them a little bit and just help them out very politely.

And I'll say, okay, let's continue. How many believe Jesus is a man right now and maybe half the hands at best will go up because they don't know. What we focus on, and Jesus is a man right now, and what people tend to focus on are other things, the things that draw them to church. You know, I mean, it's culture, it's style, it's not so much the substance.

And this is a problem. Now, in my, I just got to say this, I wish, I prefer by far black churches. I'm not joking. I wish there was a black church around my area that was reformed with that freedom and that liveliness that is in that culture, which I just love. But I can't find that. You know, I want that, that exuberance, that fearlessness to say amen during a sermon. And to raise their voices for the glory of God in excitement. I wish that was in a reformed context.

Can't find it. So what am I going to do? I'm going to go find a white church where they sit in their pews, put their hands in their laps, and we nod politely, but as long as we get the doctrine right.

What, which doctrine, five-point doctrine, whatever. This is what we do as people. We want to become comfortable. We want to become comfortable and it's, it's, it's deleterious. It's harmful effects.

It's not good. We need truth. We need truth. We need to submit to the truth of God's word.

What you're doing is you're sure. Go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. Well, I just, I mean, you know, hold on, hold on. We got a break. Hold on.

We got a break. Okay. We'll be back. Okay. We're talking about this. Okay. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages, please.

Oh, that reminds me on, I think it's Tuesday. We're going to have Bill McKeever on the air. I'll tell you about that after the break. Uh, hey, stay tuned folks. We'll be right back. Welcome back everybody.

Let's get back on the phone with, uh, anonymous from Alabama. Okay. So where were we, uh, yes, sir. You were, uh, you were talking about, um, well, you briefly mentioned, uh, some of the distinct, some of the reasons for why, you know, Caucasian churches, American American churches aren't forced in the gathering and you were going into cultural differences, how we get sidetracked on things that are more and things are more cultural in nature than things are more about, um, that's, that's where we left thing. Yeah.

A lot of times. Yeah. So, so let me, let me ask you this and I know I'm going to, I'm going to reset what you said in a way that I know you didn't eat.

Okay. But, but what I just heard you say is that, uh, and I'm assuming, of course, that you think you're doctrinally correct. Of course we all think we're doctrinally correct.

Right. Um, but what I heard you say is that, uh, a particular group of people were so, uh, misinformed by the Holy Spirit and in their doctrine that, uh, you couldn't worship them. No, they're not misinformed by the Holy Spirit. That's not correct. They're just misinformed. Okay.

All right. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead people into error. I'm assuming, I'm assuming you believe that the Holy Spirit informs their understanding of scripture. Yes, but it's also, it's also the case, but it's also the case that we can suppress the Spirit's truth and revelation based upon our sinful desires.

So that's it. I was teaching a Bible study in a church on apologetics on the cults once at a Baptist church. I mentioned an approach, just an approach of using the doctrine of predestination, whether you agree with it or not, uh, against the cults, because all cults and false religious systems deny God's absolute predestination, which is true. Let's just say that, uh, I ended up packing my bags and walking out of the church because they became so hostile to the doctrine of predestination, a Baptist church. And yet I was reading scripture to them and they refused to accept it.

People get their own little idols and Christians aren't immune from it. Okay. Well, here, here's kind of where I, where I was going with things.

Okay. And I think you and I, we don't disagree on this. Uh, but to me, it seems like given that culture, and this is big picture historically, uh, we can even bring up, you know, instances, you know, from Catholic and Protestant England, you know, five and 600 years ago, that because we historically see the culture as being more of an influence on Christian theology than we do on, uh, really being convicted by the Holy Spirit in scripture. Uh, isn't that a pretty sound argument that maybe the Holy Spirit's role is less slash not there. Uh, I mean, isn't that a good argument that, uh, you know, that, that, that God, that at least it gets started in places God doesn't.

No, no, no. You gotta be careful. You gotta be careful because you say in this one area, it's not working. So therefore the Holy Spirit's really not there or might not be there, but he could be there in completely different areas because you don't know at some of these churches that might be disagreeing on doctrinal issues might also be helping the homeless and doing, uh, canning drives and helping little old ladies in a neighborhood. And they're working in different ways.

You can't just look at one aspect and say, this represents how the Christian church is. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, I hear, I hear what you're saying. Now we got calls waiting, but what I'd like you to do, because you mentioned something else I want to talk to you about. And if you can call back, get in line.

You're saying you're having doubts about the existence of God. I could talk about that with you. Sure. I'll get in line. Okay.

Seriously. Sure. Uh, you want me to call back?

How should I proceed? Just call back, get in line and, and we'll get to the people who've been waiting for a while and then we'll, we'll see if you know. Okay. We'll talk to you. All right. All right. Thank you very much. All right, brother.

God bless. Okay. Let's get to Stacy from Utah.

Stacy, welcome. You're on the air. Hello. I feel bad that I interrupted. I was interested in what you guys were talking about. Oh, okay. Well, I try and make it sure that people wait, that I'm polite to them as well, unless it's a really important conversation.

Not to say his wasn't, but, uh, he's a good guy. He'll call back and we'll talk about the other topic. Music. Well, my question seems kind of basic. Um, I'm going to be visiting my mother and go to a church and this little little man just had this one question.

I was wondering if you could help me answer it about Job. How long he was sitting at the ashes. How long he was in the ash? I don't know, but it was a while.

I don't know specifically how long he was sitting in that cloth and ashes. Okay. I didn't, I researched it in the Bible and then I just wanted to know if you had any other input.

No, I don't. That's a good question. Also, well, the other thing that was a puzzle to me at my mom's church was they said that Adam and Eve weren't saved.

Not true. That's what I was wondering because they said they never asked for forgiveness of their sin. And so that's why they weren't saved in that puzzle. Well, you have to ask the question, uh, where does it say in the Bible? You have to ask forgiveness of your sins in order to be saved. It doesn't say that. And this is, you know, a lot of people say, well, you don't confess your sins.

It didn't say that. It says confessing your sins. What do we do with a baby in the womb who dies, who's aborted?

What do we do with my son who died in the arms of my wife and I? He didn't confess. He didn't repent. So is he going to be saved?

Well, of course, yeah. So when people say these kinds of things, they don't think them through and they want to say, well, you need to ask forgiveness normally speaking. Well, even then I'd say, show me scripture. People are so accustomed to, well, you have, of course, you have to ask forgiveness in order to be forgiven. Show me the verse.

And I don't know of it. Now it says, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So confession of sin is something that's, that is taught in scripture, but we can't say that a baby must confess his sins to be saved. Otherwise no babies could be saved. So we're talking normally that an adult who's aware confesses his sins. It's a normal thing.

But what do you do if you're an adult in a home with a baby in the womb who's adult in a hospital with tubes in your body and you're on your deathbed, you've got less than an hour to live and you can't even talk. Do you have to confess your sins? You can acknowledge you're a sinner.

Yes. Do you have to ask Jesus to forgive you your sins? Well, you know, I'm not going to say you don't, but the thing is we got to be careful how we say these things. Now the Bible says that we receive Christ, John 1 12, and we confess our sins.

First Corinthians one, seven through nine, but there's no place that says, here's a formula. You have to do it this way. So I'm just being more technically accurate than a lot of people are. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So you got to ask those questions. Are you like that? Could you ask that question again?

Because there was more to it and I forgot what it was either. You mean if they were saved because they didn't ask for forgiveness? This your pastor friend or someone taught that you had to. Yeah, it's my mom's church and that's what they covered is that Adam and Eve weren't saved because they didn't.

They didn't ask. Well, the Bible says that what God did was remove their fig leaves, aprons, and God covered them with animal skins. God's covering is the atonement.

He did it for them. They're saved. Okay.

That's what I always thought. Okay. Well, thank you. You're welcome. Well, God bless.

All right. Hey folks, one open line eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Here's Matt Slick. Okay. Well, we have two open lines. If you want to give me a call.

Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Let's get to Sarah from North Carolina. Sarah. Welcome. You're on the air. Yes. I think I tapped in when you were talking to your first caller ever Washington in the black church and how, uh, you would, there was a black church around that you could watch it in. Uh, I have been a member of, of, of a black church and, and both a white church. And I understand where you are coming from, but that was not the question that I wanted to ask you. I do have a question to ask you. Sometimes there is just too many amen in the black church that you cannot hear what the pastor is saying. Why are you laughing? Because I think it's awesome. I remember once I, um, in prison, I remember I learned to love this because I, you know, I, I'm not loyal to any denomination or anything.

I moved 26 times before I was 12 years old, but all over, you know, half of that United States. And I remember when I was starting to preach in prison and I, I preach these guys during this sermon, they would say, amen. And it caught me off guard. Like, you're not supposed to interrupt the sermon and, uh, but you know what? These guys are great. And it did not take me long before I started loving it because they go, amen, brother. And I'm going, they're listening. This is awesome. And then I'd go back to my own church and then, you know, and then, you know, they'd say something, I want to get up and go, amen.

And, uh, everybody's just sitting there staring like, oh, it's so, you know, I love that. And, um, and I remember it's been churches like that and situations like that that have spoken to me the most. In fact, I'm gonna tell you this story.

I'm sorry. I know I'm tangenting here, but I was preaching in a prison and it was in Tehachapi and, uh, in Southern California area, mid Southern California. And so I was preaching. Right. And I lost my son a couple of months earlier and I was trying to relate to these guys. And there are a lot of Mexicans in there or Hispanic, I should say, and blacks and whites.

It was pretty much equal mix in the chapel and his preaching and, um, no big deal. And, uh, and I'm very comfortable with the prisoners. I like them. I do. They're more real. I just, I like them. I don't care what they've done. It's whatever.

Let's move on. And, uh, so I'm preaching, right, and these two Mexican guys start walking towards me down the center aisle. And I'm thinking either one of these guys could break me in half with a stare. That's how big these guys are tough, you know? And I have a button on my, on my pocket.

All you do is hit it and the guards will come rushing in. It's because I'm in there with the bad guys. And, uh, I'm thinking, what are these guys going to do? And I'm preaching. I didn't lose my train of thought.

I didn't lose this. These guys should come heading right at me and looking at me. I'm thinking they're going to jump me because they don't like what I'm saying. I never forgot this.

Never will forget it. They got right to where I was preaching because I was up on an elevated area stage and they moved to my right and they knelt down on the hard tile, put their elbows on the stage and prayed for the rest of the sermon. And I asked them later, why did you do that? And it wasn't complaining.

Why'd you do that? They said, brother, we loved what you were saying. And we wanted the power of the spirit to be on these brothers here. And we were praying for that. I'm thinking, oh, I just love that. And I miss that in churches. I miss the exuberance. In fact, when I preach, I, I, I move and I get forward, I go forward and backwards and I get excited and raise my voice and I call my voice the excitement of the word of God. I like that and need that.

Anyway, it's a cultural thing. I like that too, but I also like to hear the sermon when it's being preached. Amen. But the question that I want to ask you this time, I'd like to hear the message. Amen, sister.

Amen, sister. But the question that I want to ask you, am I missing the life of Joseph, Jacob's son, Joseph, am I missing anywhere in the scripture where he never actually prayed? Oh, that's a good question. Did he actually pray? Did he actually pray? Did he ever pray? I mean, we know that he was a child of God. We know that he knew that he knew who he belongs to. And, and his life showed that he was a believer.

I mean, a genuine believer. But I don't see anywhere in the scripture where he actually prayed, even though he went through all of the stress that he went through in his life. Now, there are some passages where he was talking to somebody and he would say, I prayed, but I don't think he was referring to God. I'm not sure.

That's why I'm asking him. What verse is that? What verse? Oh, just a minute. Let me get, let me get it.

Let me get it. Because I'm going through, I'm looking at it, I'm searching the word Joseph through the scriptures right now, beginning with Genesis one and just going through. And, and so I'm seeing if Jeff was praying because that'd be very interesting.

I have so many voices here and I'm not quite sure which one. I have quite a few of them, but I do not remember him actually praying to God. Uh, but of course he did, you know, we know that he was, he had to have been. Yeah.

And you see, it's, I think it'd be very interesting, uh, if he did not, what would be the reason that the Holy Spirit would, would not include a prayer from Joseph? That would be a real interesting question. If that's the case.

Yeah. I'm sorry, I have so many voices here that I've written down. But I don't, I don't know exactly. And I hate to have, let me see, Genesis 48. Well, I'm going through them and I'm in Genesis 40, 23, but, uh, do you want me to give you all the voices that I have?

Well, we don't have time. I'm going through looking and, uh, I can actually find where it says Joseph. And then what I can do is another search for prayer and see, uh, and, and just kind of do a research on it. But that's really interesting.

Wow, what I would do if I were you is if you think there's a prayer, a verse where you prayed, just email, you know, cause it might be several verses to look at. We don't have time to go through them all, but I'm curious. See, that to me is really insightful. That's a good question. I am too, I am too. And I was so powerful.

I was quite powerful. Yeah. Why would he not record a prayer of Joseph? There's usually reasons. Why wouldn't they? That's a good question.

And see, when you have a question like that, there's usually a great answer. It's just like when, uh, Genesis 22, when, when Isaac and, uh, Jacob, I mean, Abraham and Isaac came down from the hill. It doesn't say Isaac came down. It's omitted. It just says, and Abraham went down. It doesn't say Isaac went down. Well, why? Because he represents Christ and Christ didn't come down from the cross.

It's a typology. And so there's a reason even for the omission of something. So if that is the case, that there's no record of him praying, uh, then I would love to, uh, to know that is the case and then how to find out why that would be a real interesting question to try and answer.

I would have to call you back another time. Yeah. If you have a particular verse where he says he does. I've gone through a whole bunch of verses right now and I'm just scanning through and I don't see any place with the word Joseph that shows up in a verse where it says he prayed, you know, that's Joseph prayed to the God or, you know, you ask God, I don't see it. No, that is absolutely nowhere where it says he prayed. Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's good. Whoops, it says, do this and live for I, now Joseph said to them on the third day, do this and live for I fear God. So that we know that that that's a Genesis 42 18. The fear of God includes the necessity of praying, but it wouldn't, that doesn't mean he, that doesn't record a prayer.

That's really interesting. Yeah, that's what it doesn't record it. Which means there's not recorded for a reason. Okay. Which I don't know why.

What reason? Good question. That's a question that I wish you hadn't asked me because now I might be wondering about it and not get any sleep. Thank you very much.

See, it's a good question. Okay, Matt, I'll call you back tomorrow. Okay, sister. Well, God bless. Thank you very much.

You're welcome very much. Thanks for raising that question. That's a really good question.

I never thought about that. All right, Sarah. It is.

That's right. Okay. Well, God bless. Okay. That is a good question. I wonder if it's true.

If any of you think you have a verse where Joseph actually prayed or it said he prayed, email it to me. And if that's a good question, I like that. All right, let's get on with Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome.

You're on the air. Yes, that's it. The Bible says that God doesn't extend against nobody, right? He what? Against nobody. God doesn't extend against nobody, right?

He doesn't sin against anybody? No, discriminate against nobody. Oh, discriminate.

Discriminate. Yeah. So me, so I'm going to heaven and I'm sitting in heaven in the place of Christ Jesus. And the Bible says I'm a child of God, son of God based on what Jesus did.

And the precious blood of Jesus Christ came to my blood. So it's not based on my skin color. That's right. I have all these privileges not based on my skin color. Correct? Right. You have privileges in Christ Jesus. Amen.

We got a break. So hold on. Okay. We'll be right back, folks. After these messages, we'll open line 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the line with Alberto from Georgia.

Alberto, welcome back. Hello. Hello. Okay. So what's your question?

My question was, again, I said that God does not discriminate people based on their skin color. So the words. Right.

That's correct. I have access to it. So I'm a God. I can stand boldly before God's throne. Not because of my skin color. Not because of my position. I don't belong to a particular club. I don't got no money.

I'm broke. And yet I have access to get it from the throne of God's throne. Right. And all the witches. Right. Has nothing to do with their skin color.

To the blood of Jesus and the Jesus. Correct. So, so, so, so my skin color has nothing to do with that. That's right. There's nothing to do with it.

Absolutely. It's irrelevant. We're all descendants from Adam. And so he had the true skin color, whatever it was. We're all derivations, uh, out of all of that. That's all. So there's only one race. There's only one race, the human race, and we have different skin colors.

We have different, uh, facial structures, heights and stuff like that. And that, that's, that's it. That's how I view it.

So, okay. So why the, why, why the, why the man create these religious systems that, you know, like they have special hierarchy in churches or you have to offer all these things about a certain group or certain secret societies and all this stuff. Well, you're talking about different things. You're talking about all kinds of different stuff. There are secret societies, which are not good, but, uh, there are church rules set up in scripture. So it just depends on which question you want to go with, but we'd have differences of opinion on all kinds of things.

And that's permitted in Romans 14, one through five. Okay. Okay, buddy. Thank you. All right, buddy. Okay. You too. All right. Let's get to Jerry from North Carolina. Jerry. Welcome. You're on the air. Uh, yes sir. Matt, it seems like every time I ask a question, um, it corresponds with what you've been talking about earlier.

Must be predestined. My question is, is there a difference between the Trinity and the Holy Trinity? No, there's no difference. No, it's just, uh, the only difference is the word holy. It's all the Holy Trinity is just, uh, you know, people just say it more respectfully, reverently. The Trinity is the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity is the Trinity.

It's just that there's no difference. Okay. Thank you, sir.

You're welcome, sir. Okay. God bless. All right. Let's get to Chris from Indiana.

Chris. Welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. My question is, uh, my question is, uh, uh, I think I don't know where it is, but like, uh, that we look at the mirror, I think, okay, we will be known as we are now.

Yes. What does that mean? What does that mean?

It's, uh, yeah, it's no problem there. First Corinthians 13, to be known as we're fully known, what we find in scripture is, uh, uh, yeah, that's first Corinthians 13, 12 to know God only knows believers and he never knows unbelievers. Now he knows all things. He knows who all unbelievers are, but when the phrase, I know you occurs in scripture by Christ, it means you're saved. If he says, I don't know you, it means you're not saved.

That's the word ginosko, to know, and it relates to pro ginosko, to for know. Those who before knew, he also predestined Romans 8 29. So when he says, so when he's saying there in first Corinthians 13, 12, for now we've seen a mayor, mayor Dinley, but then face to face, then refers to the, to the, when the perfect comes, which some people say is the Bible, but no, it's gotta be the return of Christ. Cause that's when we'll see face to face.

Face to face, and now I know in part, but then I shall be fully known. Or, okay. So we will be known by God. It's a saving relationship phrase that will be known by God. He means he knows us.

That means we're saved. Okay. Okay. Can I ask you one more?

Sure. You asked, you said something to say about Benny. Yeah, he's a heretic. She's a heretic. They're what? They're heretics. Heretics.

Okay. And why, why do you say that? Well, because Benny Hinn, uh, I can do a show on him sometime. Uh, and many of the heresies he's taught that Trinity is 27 persons and it was nine persons.

He's a charlatan and, uh, he's bad news. And Joyce Meyer, uh, teaches heresy and, uh, I can go to, in fact, what I'll do is I'll read you some of them, uh, really briefly on the, from my website. Let's see, Joyce Meyer.

I have it fully documented with some audio. And, uh, so she says, come on. Oh, okay. Let's go this one. Uh, okay.

We do it this way. Joyce, come on. I have different articles on her.

What's a different one? Dang it. I misspelled the word.

Uh, I hate it when I do that. All right. Let's try this. Okay. I'm going to read you what she has actually said.

And, and it's documented. Oh, you slimeball. And, um, talking to my computer, it's, it's doing a forward. I have to make a note of this, a forward I don't want it to do. So I have to go fix that.

That's why it's doing that. Uh, let's see. So what she says is, uh, Jesus stopped being the son of God, that he was born again, that he paid for sins in hell, that he went to hell in our place and was tormented and you can't, if you don't believe that Jesus was born again, went to hell, you cannot be saved. And that we're called little gods.

It's okay to be called little gods. This is what she teaches. And it is this flat out heresy.

She says that Jesus went to hell. Yes. Uh huh. And was tormented. Yep. Let's see. Uh, she says this, this is in the most important decision you'll ever make by Joyce Meyer.

Second printing, May, 1993 page 35. Quote, he became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days during that time. He entered hell where you and I deserve to go legally because of our sin.

He paid the price there. Close quote. That's, that's damnable heresy because it's a denial of the sufficiency of the cross. So she teaches a damnable heresy. There's heresy and that doesn't keep you out of the kingdom. And there's heresy that does. And that does. She said this, I don't, I don't think I completely understand what Jesus bore our sin in his body on the cross.

First Peter two 24. Yeah. He said in John 1930 it is finished, which means his legal thing that he did was finished. So he died on the cross for our sins. That's where he finished the atonement. This is what she says. This is what she says.

Okay. He became our sacrifice and died on the cross. That's true. He did not stay dead. That's true. He was in the grave three days.

That's true. During that time, he entered hell. That's not, what do you mean entered hell where you and I deserve to go. So now she's thinking she went, he went to the place of damnation. There's not, it's not in scripture.

It's not in scripture. Yeah, but there's debates on what that is and discussions, but let me, let me continue because he went there because of our hell. He paid the price there.

She's saying he prayed, played the price. He paid the price of our sin debt there in hell. Now Colossians two 14 says he canceled the certificate of debt. Having nailed to the cross. The cross is where it was done and finished. So she's saying it wasn't done and finished on the cross. He had to go to hell and pay our price there. And that's how we have to be saved by what he did there. That, that is I'm saying it publicly. That is damnable heresy that anyone who teaches that cannot and should not be considered a true Christian. Okay. I didn't know that's right.

This is that serious. Now here's another quote from her. This is in the same book page. The next page, 36 Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. Then as God had promised on the third day, Jesus rose from the dead. The scene in the spirit realm was something like this. God rose up from his throne instead of the demon powers, tormenting the sinless son of God. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where does it say in scripture that Jesus was being tormented by the demonic forces in hell?

It doesn't. And now this is, this is a read, I'm gonna read you another one. This is a redefinition of the gospel message. She is accursed because of this. This is on page 37 of the same book quote, his spirit went to hell because that is where we deserve to go.

There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth. Close quote. Okay. Now, if she doesn't believe this anymore, she needs to publicly recant and pull these books and say, these books are teaching damnable heresy.

Get rid of them. Don't, you know, I made a mistake and blah, blah, blah. I have not heard of any recantation of this damnable heresy and I'm saying it publicly. This is damnable heresy. It is false doctrine.

She's redefining the gospel. Okay. All right. Okay. One more, one more question.

All right. Do you know who Steve, Steve Craig is? I think Steve Craig, I think his name is Steve Craig. I believe so.

Steve Greg, not Craig, but Steve Greg. Yeah. I've talked to him years and years ago.

Yeah. Why do you guys have similar belief systems or he's not a Calvinist? I am. He's not a Calvinist. I am. And, uh, but he has a lot of good things to say. Okay. You as well. Yeah, you are a Calvinist.

I don't have, I've looked up Calvinism a little bit, but I don't have a Calvinist. Yeah. It just says that. Redestination.

Redestination. Yeah. I don't think he agrees with that. Then you are, you're free. You're free to go to hell regardless. You have really no choice. Uh, we'll tell you what, we're almost out of time.

Why don't you call back tomorrow? We can talk about it. I'm going to give you a scripture for you to look at. I will, I will. Read in the meantime, in the meantime, read Romans nine. Call back to my rule.

Romans nine, starting at verse nine. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Okay.

All right. God bless. Let's get to Ryan from Pennsylvania. Ryan.

Welcome. You're on the air. We lost Ryan. Oh man.

If I'd have known he wasn't on there, I could have stayed on with this guy longer. Um, since I'll just, excuse me, I'll continue on with the last caller. Um, about Joyce Meyer. Uh, folks, look, I'm not just a heresy hunter, but you have got to understand that there are people say things. Now I grant that people say things in their excitement. They say dumb things and, and they, you know, later they go, why did I say it that way? I shouldn't have said that. I understand, you know, it happens when you're a public figure and you're, you're speaking and I've done it where you say, I shouldn't have said it that way.

I got that. That, that's okay. I mean, it's not okay, but you know, it's okay. But when you write something like this, and it is damnable heresy, a lot of questions come to mind.

Why is it that the, uh, the Christians around her didn't correct her or I don't know if they did or did not, or tried to correct her? I've heard nothing of any recantation of this. It doesn't mean it hasn't occurred. I'm just saying I haven't heard it. And I brought this up many times over the years, over the air, and no one's ever sent me any documentation to, yeah, this is where she recants. I just not heard it.

I don't know how to find it. I've tried contacting that ministry and they won't, uh, they won't do anything other than an official response email. Thank you for your inquiry, blah, blah, blah. We're too busy, blah, blah, blah. Thank you.

Go away. And we even said we teach all the radio or website document stuff we want. We have questions.

Can we please talk to her about these things and get these things answered? Nothing. So we're forced then as a ministry to expose the error of what has occurred. And Joyce Meyer is teaching serious error, serious error. She's not repented that as far as we know, and this is a serious problem and she needs to repent. Okay.

That's just the way it is, just what it is. Hey folks, I hope you enjoyed the show and make your scratching your head, raising one eyebrow going, what? Well, continue to listen. We'll find out more tomorrow by God's grace. Hopefully we'll talk to you then. Have a great evening, everybody. God bless. Bye another program powered by the truth network.