Matt Slick Live

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The Truth Network Podcast is produced by the Truth Network Podcast is produced by the Truth Network Podcast. So who is he to be subjective towards him? If I were up there preaching, okay, and there's a bunch of people, and I was preaching on this text, I would say, if you are setting your mind on the things that are not of God, then you need to check yourself to see if you're a Christian. You need to see, are you setting yourself, your mind and your attitude on the things that belong to God or the thing that belong to this fallen world? Where's your heart?

Where's your mind? Because the Bible says that the mind set in the flesh is hostile towards God, Romans 8.7. And you know, are you being hostile to God? Are you coming here to church just to do it as a habit?

Because you want to meet the people and get free cookies for break or what? You got to talk like that because you don't know. I wouldn't know who was and who was not saved in a church. And so you speak, Paul's doing that. He's contrasting those who are of the Spirit and those who are of the flesh. It's not saying that you keep your salvation by walking in the flesh. I mean, by walking in the Spirit. It's how you keep yourself right with God. That's cult theology.

Okay? Well, I'm not gonna keep you longer, but then the Bible said that it will let them grow the wheat in the tare, and then in the last day that the angels will come and scoop up is the wheat. And tares first. The tares and burn them.

The tares are gathered first. Yeah. God knows. But we judge people by their fruit. So hopefully, as an example, I've convinced people I'm a Christian. I put my faith in Jesus Christ.

I do websites, I speak, write books, radio. It's just the fruit of being regenerate. Just as someone else who's fruit of being regenerate would be honesty, integrity, putting Christ first, and things like that. That's not to say we don't fail and make mistakes and do things we shouldn't be doing occasionally. But we war against the flesh. That's what we're supposed to be doing. And though we fail, and Paul talks about that in Romans 6, 18 through 25. He talks about that.

But what he's doing here, he's informing people. You set your mind on the things of God, or you set your mind on the things of the earth, of the fleshly. Either spiritual or it's physical.

Which are you gonna put your mind and your heart to? Because this is something that needs to be preached to everybody. Christians as well as non-Christians.

They need to know. Christians need to check themselves because there are a lot of false converts out there. Who think that they're going to heaven because they go to church, or because they're sincere, or because they're not as bad as so and so down the street. Or because they've been baptized. Or because they go to church and do sacraments. And you know, false converts.

They put their faith in that instead of Christ. It's not Christ and anything. And so, it says in Romans 8, 10. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. So if you're alive, it's because Christ is in you. And the way to demonstrate that life is are you trying to live according to Christ and according to righteousness?

Now, we're not talking about perfection. But are you trying? Are you resisting sin? Are you confessing sin? Are you moving forward towards Jesus and living for him?

That's what's going on. Okay? Okay, thank you. God bless you. Take care.

God bless you too. All right, Alberto. All right, hey folks, if you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 8772072276.

Real easy to do. And we have four open lines, so give me a call. Let's get to Matt from Michigan. Matt, welcome. You're on the air. Thanks so much for taking my call, Matt. Sure. So what do you got, buddy?

So, yeah, sorry for the belly. I am a reformed Baptist, and something that's always been puzzling me is the difference between a reformed Baptist and more reformed people, such as Presbyterians, and I think they're so about the new covenant. Yeah, I'm Presbyterian, so this would be a good little contrast.

Go ahead. Yeah, I'm just trying to understand, maybe if you could help point me to some scripture verses or debates or books or whatever that would help me understand better the membership of the new covenant. Is it entirely believers, the elect?

Is it those within the church? You know, what is it? Well, we first have to define what the new covenant is, and Jesus ratifies the new covenant in the New Testament. Now, what's problematic here is that, I'm gonna explain some stuff because I don't have a great answer yet. This is something I still need to work on.

We've got a lot of things going on right now. But Jesus says this in Luke 20, 22. Let's see, get to that so people can see, there we go. He says in Luke 20, excuse me, 22, 20, he said, this cup is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. So Jesus was instituting the covenant at the Lord's Supper. Now, when you go to Hebrews 8, let's see, 8, 13, when he said a new covenant, he has made the first obsolete.

But whatever's becoming obsolete, it's growing old, is ready to disappear. And then when you go to Hebrews 9, this is what's important, 15 and 16, for this reason, he's the mediator of a new covenant so that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. So the new covenant is ratified upon the death of Christ. So in death, when Jesus instituted the Supper, he was giving the new covenant sign as the communion. And that wasn't effectual until his death because the new covenant is ratified with the death of the one who made it.

So now we look at this. And then what I've done before, and I've said I need to still do this but I just haven't had the time, is the new covenant. He's the mediator of a new covenant, Hebrews 12, 24.

And there's also some interesting stuff, where is it? In, yes, here it is, Hebrews 8, eight. For finding fault with him, he says, behold, days are coming, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with our fathers. Now we've got a break coming up. So having said that, we'll talk a little bit more about it and I'll show you a little bit of confusion I've got on it, okay? Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned, we'll be right back. Welcome back to the show, we have two open lines if you wanna give me a call, 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. We have two open lines if you wanna give me a call, 877-207-2276. Matt, are you still there?

On here. All right, so I was gonna say that we see aspects of the new covenant which replaced the old covenant. The old covenant had the priesthood but we have a new priesthood in Christ. And the old covenant was based on our ability to do works but the new covenant is based upon Christ's ability, not our ability. And in the old covenant, the access to God was through a priest but now our access is directly through Christ who is our high priest so we have direct access. This is incidentally one of the reasons the Roman Catholic system is another reason it's faulty because it replaces the priesthood incorrectly. Anyway, and also in the old covenant there was law keeping but in the new covenant there's not gonna be any law keeping in that sense for justification because we had to keep certain dietary laws, we don't have to do that now. Priestly laws, we don't have to do that now.

So that kind of a thing. So the new covenant is, the covenant sign is the communion supper. And so that's what it is and you'll notice that the bread and the wine symbolize the body and the blood which are the sacrifice. So the new covenant is based upon the sacrifice of Christ.

Not what we do but what Christ did. Now there's an intro to it. Does that make sense so far? And does it answer the question? Yes it does.

Okay. As far as answering the question, so you keyed in on Hebrews 8.8. I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel. Is there something about the house of Israel that's significant to the membership of the new covenant?

Yes and I don't know what it is yet because unless it's what it means. I've been thinking about this off and on and I just realized something just now. He says I will effect a new covenant with the house of Israel. Now the house of Israel is, biblically speaking, national Israel, the people under that covenant. It's not the Gentiles, it's the house of Israel. And I was thinking before that the new covenant in this was ratified only for the house of Israel but doesn't say that. The house of Israel will experience a new covenant and we who are grafted in experience a new covenant as well. Because believe it or not, even the Gentiles are under covenant obligation to keep the law.

They don't realize that but they were in Adam. We were all in Adam and Adam was told by God to keep the law, don't eat of the tree. And so since he represented all people, 1 Corinthians 15, 22, Romans 5, 18, then we are under obligation even as Gentiles to keep the law. Now the Jews had the ratification and the codification of that law.

And they had further aspects of the law that we were not privileged to during that time back then. So the new covenant is the ratification of the old covenant's requirements stripped away and provided in Christ so that the new covenant in the house of Israel could be had the same way we the Gentiles have that new covenant by faith relying on the work of the high priest Jesus instead of our works through the high priest of Israel. So the new covenant with Israel would be that which is ratified in Christ upon his death with a new covenant system. And then the symbol of that covenant or the covenant sign is the communion supper.

Don't that make sense? So where my eyes go to in Hebrews 8 is the superiority of the new covenant in that it sounds like the members of the new covenant continue in that covenant instead of falling away like they did in the old. And it seems like the author of Hebrews is saying that's one of the ways that the new covenant is better. That's one of the ways that the new covenant mediator, Christ, is better. So to me, it seems like that necessarily means that the members of the new covenant are the elect.

Yes. Now, without getting into too much, there are avenues of discussion in this topic that deal with what's called covenant boundaries. And there are people today who are saying if you keep the covenant boundaries, you remain saved, and if you don't, you're not. And I think that's a mistake because the covenant boundaries are kept by Christ, not us.

So that's what I think. Okay? And I can't get into it too much because it'll just open up a can of worms. Oh, sure, sure, that's something I'll search around on the internet for, covenant boundaries. Yeah, and. So I thought that this was a distinction between, you know, Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians, for example. I thought that.

There is. More Reformed folks would say that the new covenant is not, the members of the new covenant are not. Only. Not strictly the elect. But would include. Right.

Or whatever. Right, so since I'm Presbyterian and you're not, I affirm infant baptism under covenant, but not for salvation, but as a covenant sign. And, you know, you can agree or disagree, and that's fine, I'm not gonna die in this hill, it's just my perspective. And so what we would say, the Presbyterians would say, is that even as it says in the Abrahamic covenant, a covenant, which is ratified in Genesis 17, with circumcision, where God said to Abraham in Genesis 12, three, in you all the nations shall be blessed. Well, that means that all the Gentiles will be blessed in Abraham, too. And that verse, Genesis 12, three, in you all the nations shall be blessed, is quoted by Paul in Galatians 3, eight, and he calls it the gospel. So that is called the euangelia, the good news. Back then was taught, well, here's the thing about the Abrahamic covenant, we know, and you would agree, that in that old covenant aspect, children were automatically included through circumcision as a sign of shedding of blood.

And I can get into the details about that, but again, don't have time right now. And so the question then becomes, you know, were the infants able to be entered into a covenant even if they weren't aware? The answer, of course, is, well, yes. Because the covenant dealt with the family, the federal headship of the family, and the people that were in the federal head, the father. It's a very biblical concept. The question then is, does that continue?

That's just a question. Does it continue over in the new covenant if the Abrahamic promise is considered the gospel, which is still in effect? Then we would have to ask, is there a New Testament admonition to exclude infants from the same Abrahamic covenant that was then and is still in effect? And that this, the answer to the question generates a few hours of really good, polite discussion with the right people, and agreeing and disagreeing and looking at this and that.

So this gets to be very difficult and very deep at the same time and rewarding. Because I hold personally that the Abrahamic covenant, which included children, is still in effect because it was a promise to Abraham, which has not been ignored. It's called the gospel.

So therefore, I think within the new covenant, if, if, now here's an answer I don't have yet, if the new covenant can be included as a system of ratification for the Old Testament covenant style, including the children, which seems to make sense because whole households are baptized. And that seems to be consistent with this idea. But not always, because it's not deliberately stated. Hold on, we got a break. We'll get a little bit more after the break, okay?

Hey folks, as you can see, this is a deep topic, and it's an interesting one. May the Lord bless you. Be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, let's get back on here with Matt from Michigan. Matt, are you, Matt and I, are you the guy in the chat? I am not in chat. What, I'm sorry? No?

I am not in chat. Oh, okay. There's another guy saying that. Oh, he says it's Romans 9-6. Let me take a look at that really fast. Okay, it says, Israel who descended from Israel.

That's a different context altogether. So what I did was I did a search for the term House of Israel, and it occurs 100 and, oh, 45 times, not 41, 145 times. And I converted all the list to an email, and anybody who wants it, this email made info at karm.org, and I'll send it to you. You can see all the instances. Anyway, so, man, I love research. It's a lot of fun for me. I don't know if that helps, Matt, does it?

It does. You've given me several things to chew on, things to look up, some helpful pointers. Brother, I really appreciate your ministry. Keep going. Hey, by God's grace, you know, just by God's grace, and I appreciate that the people appreciate what God can do through a saved fool.

So that's, he gets all the glory. All right. Thanks so much, Matt. Have a good day. You too, Matt.

God bless. All right, let's get to Teon from Brooklyn, New York. Hey, Teon, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, hello, how you doing? Doing all right, man, by God's grace.

What do you got, buddy? I'm happy I was able to find out that you were actually having these live calls because I actually, when I first became a born-again Christian, it was 2006, and I was looking online and I came across your bibliography with all your information. So it was something that I constantly referred to with the group that I used to sit with, and we used to study the scriptures with each other to go out and minister to people in New York City.

Wow. We used to use your stuff, and we actually created one of the first groups on Facebook using your information at the time when they didn't open up to people who were not students in college. So we had the first group on Facebook, you know, ministering the people, and just from that early on, I felt like a yearning of wanting to get to know God, be closer to God, so I had an option whether to go to a secular school or a school that was dealing with seminary. So I ended up going to a secular school, and it seemed as if it pushed me away from the path that I desired. You know, and I'm trying to sum it up quickly, and during that time, I was like an alma vera or other different positions that were in the church, not feeling comfortable with it, you know, and not really having a full understanding of the way that the church functioned. So fast forward, we're going through a pandemic, all the churches are shut down, everyone has to change their strategy, their method, who's spiritual, who's not spiritual. It kind of just threw everything in the air, so it's like now you go surfing for those ministries and those people, and some of them you find and some of them you don't find. And the one that I attend now via online is the Christian Cultural Center with Reverend or Pastor A.R. Bernard.

And it's been, you know, helpful, you know, when I was away from home to listen to his ministry, because it definitely gave me some food, you know, for my soul to kind of keep me looking into what's going on with God in the world. Do you have a question, though? Do you have a question? I mean, do you have a question, though? Yeah, the question was because the question has to do with something that I experience every day, and I didn't know how to really put the question, so I just gave you a little background information. Okay.

So now as I go, I'm back in New York City, and I'm living in Coney Island. So now there's a large population of, you know, Yiddish, Jewish people here. So every day I look at these people, and I'm thinking in my head, you know, why are people more jealous with these individuals who have a form of godliness versus us as Christians who's supposed to have the Spirit? Was the question I wanted to ask. Okay, could you rephrase that question? Sometimes I don't understand people's questions. Okay, rephrase it. All right, so you have people who look at a person, they're eating a certain food, they're dressing a certain way.

All the businesses in my community are closed down. I got you, but just the question, tell me the question again, because I got all that background, okay? Why are people more jealous of Jews than they are Christians? People more jealous of Jews than Christians. I'm not sure if they are jealous of Jews than Christians. I'm not sure what context. I know that, yeah, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure I understand the question. There are always groups and news reports of people in the Jewish community being attacked by other people, so then you have other individuals becoming somewhat angered by it and making comments on it. By why the Jews are being persecuted, you mean? Or why is everyone so responsive to what's going on to the Jewish community in America? Oh, well, one of the reasons is because of the Holocaust, because it's ingrained in our culture, in our psyche, of what the Holocaust was and what happened to the Jews and how they were just horrifically treated and murdered by the millions. So that is still there, and so this thing of anti-Semitism is a potential problem, and when it raises its ugly head, then people become aware of it because there's still plenty of people who are familiar with this. My dad, for example, fought in, well, didn't fight literally, but he was in World War II, and my mom, during World War II, worked on airplanes, and so I'm one generation removed from that, but I remember their stories.

I remember other people telling me, so I know this stuff happened, and I've talked to people who, I talked to one woman who was in a concentration camp train, and she escaped, and I met her and talked to her in Los Angeles. So it's a reality that's still there, and so people are very familiar with it, and as generations progress, it'll become less familiar, but it's still very much alive for a lot of people. I think it's one of the reasons. Well, I wanted to know, so is God provoking individuals to jealousy based on a covenant that he has with... I don't know if he's provoking anybody to jealousy with that respect, but... I thought that was a scripture that God said that he would provoke people to jealousy.

Yeah, he jealously desires a spirit, but I'm trying to, if I knew the exact verse, look at the context, I'm familiar with it, but I don't remember the exact context of that. But the Jews are a special people. They were the covenant people of God. They broke the covenant with God, and so we Gentiles were the ones grafted in. God's not done with Israel yet, per Hebrews 11, 25, 26. So national Israel, or the house of Israel, it's governmental sense, God's not done with him yet. So where do Christians come into play in all of that then? We're the ones who are grafted in because the Jews did not carry out the covenant requirements that God had given to the nation of Israel to recognize the Messiah and then promote the Messiah. They killed the Messiah instead, and then we the Gentiles were grafted in. And so we are spiritual Israel in that sense, but we're not national Israel. So God's gonna wake up Israel nationally later on, okay? Okay, because it does make me feel jealous when I see these individuals having an established community, established schools, established language, and then the Christian faith seems like it's messy.

It's like messy. What you should do, we're gonna break coming up here in a minute, but what you should do is be glad that they have these things. Be glad, because look to them as the people of God who provided the Messiah. Look to them that way. It's like, and I think of this similarly, look at women as the gender that brought the Messiah, and because of it there's special privilege and adoration and respect that goes to that because of that. And so have that attitude in the Jewish community. Treat them with respect. They are the chosen people of God. God's not done with them yet. This is why I will never fight against the nation of Israel.

I mean, I'm too old to be drafted and stuff, but I would never do it, period. Okay? All right, buddy? All right, thank you. All right, Deon, God bless, buddy. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Two open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Let's get on the phones here with Abby from Oregon.

Welcome, Abby, you're on the air. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Okay. Mm-hmm. Oh, come in. Um, I have a question.

All right. Um, the question I have is, I have, it's a concern that I have that my sister was horribly, horribly, horribly abused when she was a child, and she was broken. Her whole life, she was broken. And she died in bitterness and unforgiveness.

And so the scripture that says if you don't forgive other people, Jesus doesn't forgive, won't forgive you. Now, if Jesus does not forgive us, then did she make it or not because she died? Well, was she a Christian? In bitterness and unforgiveness. Was she a Christian? Um, I think so.

Well, here's the thing. If she was a Christian and she's truly trusted in Christ, then she goes to heaven. If she did not trust in Christ, she doesn't go to heaven. And when Jesus is talking... Well, what does it mean if you don't forgive, Jesus won't forgive you?

What does that mean? Because if Jesus don't forgive you, there ain't much hope. The context in Matthew 18 is Peter saying, how often do I forgive people who've sinned against me? Up to seven. And Jesus says... Seventy times. Okay?

Seven times seven. Yes. Yeah. And so Jesus is illustrating the idea of what real forgiveness is. We Christians forgive, and that's what we're supposed to do. Right. But he said he won't forgive you if you don't forgive others.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me move through this. Okay. All right.

Okay. So, um, people can have different levels of forgiveness and awareness of forgiveness in their own hearts towards others. Now, I'm going to use myself as an example because there was a family member who I had to forgive about something.

And I did. And a few years later, I discovered I hadn't. And what I mean by that is that I thought I had, I had intended to, but had not really in my heart when I found out one day as something came up and et cetera, et cetera. Now, does it mean I wasn't really forgiven because I hadn't truly forgiven?

No, it doesn't. He's not talking here about if you don't forgive even one thing, you'll never be forgiven by Jesus. You'll never be forgiven. Because if there's all these sins in your life and people have done stuff to you and you forget to do one forgiveness, you're going to hell.

That's not what he's saying. The attitude of forgiveness is in the Christian's heart. And I happen to know people and have known of a family member who was not able to do much forgiving but was a Christian at the same time. Was able to forgive in some areas and not in others because of the trauma of past. God is certainly gracious to us and he understands that we have been traumatized. You know, me, for example, I was traumatized because of my last name and because of moving a lot and being beat up. I didn't have, stop having nightmares of being murdered until I was 35.

This is for real. So I had to learn how to forgive a lot of people. And in my past, if I see them today, what would I do? Would I get mad at them?

I don't know and I don't want to know. I just do the best I can. So when it comes up, I say, Lord, I forgive.

You do as much as you can. This is what he's talking about. It's not a one for one thing if you forget to forgive or don't forgive one person. You're therefore going to hell.

That's not what's going on. Our relationship with Christ is not dependent upon our ability to forgive. What he's talking about is with Peter in the old covenant system, how many times do I forgive? And he's showing them, no, forgive from your heart.

Do that. If you don't forgive, it's because you're not forgiven. Those who are truly forgiven and regenerate do forgiving, but it doesn't mean that they always forgive perfectly every time. So I would say that if your sister, if she was a Christian, I'm sure she forgave all kinds of people, all kinds of stuff, but if she was so abused and she wasn't able to get past it, then that's a problem that she dealt with, and it was sin on her part, but all those sins are taken care of by Christ, and if she truly was a Christian, she'll go to heaven. Okay, so once again, my question is what does it mean if you don't forgive, Jesus won't forgive you, what does that mean?

I just told you in the context. It's not a one-for-one thing that if you don't forgive every single individual person of every single sin, then it means you're not going to heaven. If that were the case, nobody could go to heaven because everybody has got an issue with somebody else in areas of forgiveness that we need to deal with. What he's talking about, Jesus is talking about the legality, as Peter asked him in Matthew 18, how often do I forgive, and he was looking for a legitimate single number, seven times seven, or seven times, and he says no, up to 70. Wait a second, now Jesus is giving a legitimate number just 70 times? You keep a record in your book, I've forgiven 70 times, so now I'll come to 71, I don't have to forgive?

That's not what's going on. He's using hyperbole, he's using exaggeration, and he does this with the slave and the parable of the slaves and the debt and who forgave, and that true people who are Christians forgive people. If they're still struggling in their sin and don't do the things you're supposed to do, even as Paul said in Romans 6, 18 through to 25, the things I want to do I don't do and vice versa, it doesn't mean you're not saved. It means you haven't gotten to that area of sanctification yet. So in Matthew 18, 35, my Heavenly Father would do the same to you and each of you does not forgive from your heart.

He's not talking about the one-for-one legal requirement. He's giving an exaggeration, he's talking about this with forgiveness, and you can read the context of Matthew 18. Okay, so there's never a time when Jesus don't forgive you? Yes, there is a time when Jesus doesn't forgive you. Even if you don't forgive, is that what you're saying? Yes. You said, is there never a time?

No, of course there is. Jesus doesn't forgive those who don't trust in him. Right, but I'm saying there's never a time that Jesus won't forgive you. If you're a Christian, that's correct.

But if you're not... If you're not, you're not going to be forgiven. This is what it says... Do you forgive people or not? We're supposed to forgive people, but we don't always do it perfectly.

Right. So this is what it says in 1 John 1.6-7. If we say that we have fellowship with him, if we're a Christian, and yet walk in darkness, we lie, do not practice the truth. So if you're really a Christian, you're going to walk in truth.

But it's not saying you're in perfection. You're going to walk in truth. Verse 7 of 1 John. But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the light of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.

That's important. It cleanses us from all sin. And in Colossians 2.14, it says that Jesus canceled out the certificate of debt, the sin debt.

They did it at the cross. So Jesus canceled the sin debt for His people at the cross, and none can be lost because in John 6, 37-40, Jesus says that all that had been given to Him, He will lose none. Okay. Okay, I think I... That sounds like a really scary verse, that if Jesus don't forgive, then Jesus ain't going to forgive you, and then what?

Jesus doesn't forgive you. Right. Well, let me ask you something. You're a Christian, right? Yeah.

It's okay. Have you forgiven everybody from every sin that they've ever committed against you? Well, I have asked the Lord saying yes, but I can't say that I know that because I don't remember everything, every time, but I have said, Lord, I choose to forgive, you know, whoever that I've even forgotten about.

And there you go. And the fact is that God saves us in different levels of knowledge as well as different levels of sanctification. And the longer we live, the more sanctified we become, and I am sure that if your, I guess your sister would have lived longer, God would have continued to work on her heart to get her to the place of forgiveness of that person, because that's a sign of regeneration. The act of forgiving doesn't make us regenerate, doesn't keep us saved, but it's a demonstration of that life. The act of forgiveness doesn't keep Jesus from forgiving us then, like what it just says. Right, because the reason we're able to forgive is because God forgave us, and he lives in us, and we can understand. So if there is no forgiveness, you don't have any forgiveness from God, because a true manifestation of regeneration is that we forgive others. But the fact is, sometimes people just fail to do what God wants them to do, even as Christians. That doesn't mean Jesus won't forgive them then. That's right.

Even though that's a scary thing that says, if you don't forgive, he ain't gonna forgive you. That's right. Which is why it's a very serious thing.

And that's a very legalistic term, because I know I've lived, you know, with people, around people that have said that, and said, that's it. I get you. But I'm giving you more of what Scripture says, not just a single word. Right, right, right. Well, thank you very much. All right, you're welcome very much. I appreciate your time. Sure, God bless.

And bye-bye. Okay. All right, let's get to Steve from New York. Steve, I hope you're still there after all this time. You still there? Yeah, I'm here. Okay, man. Thanks for waiting so long. What do you got, buddy?

I'll try to make it quick, if I can. I guess my question really is, but God is all-sovereign, and so God created the elect. Created all people, yes. Right, but he also then chose the non-elect, correct? Right, or he didn't, oh no, he didn't choose the non-elect.

Elect is the choosing. Out of all that he created, he chose or he elected some. Right, so I guess it's a problem I've had even when I was a heretic, but, like 1 Timothy talks back, says that God wants all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2.4, yeah. But then if God created everybody, didn't he know prior to creating everyone that they were not going to be saved?

Now here's a, we only have a couple of minutes, so I'm going to rush through this, and I can connect the dots on this. There is a way to understand that when he says he wants all to be saved, there's different ways of looking at this. He can desire one thing and arrange another, because it says this in 1 Timothy 2.4, he wants all to be saved. It also says it in 2 Peter 3, 9 and 10. But then in Mark 4, 10 through 12, Jesus speaks in parables so people will not be saved, and he specifically says that's why he does that. So now what we have to do is say, well, if he wants all to be saved, how is it that he speaks in parables so people will not be saved? Then we have to get into the theology and the logic of balancing those two, and there is a way to do it, but it takes more than two minutes.

That's one way of looking at it. Another option is to say that the all that he wants to be saved are only the elect. And I can make the case that that is the case from Romans 5, 18, 1 Corinthians 15, 22, 2 Corinthians 4, 15, I think it is. I'll put these verses in my head. And I can, literally, I can make that case where that is the case. And also, to go back to the first segment that he can desire one thing and arrange another, he sends a deluding influence on people in 2 Thessalonians 2, 11, so they'll not be saved.

They'll believe a lie. So I wish we had more time to go through this, but this is the kind of stuff I teach in Bible studies and take a half hour to go through. Why don't you call back tomorrow? Let's talk about it some more if you can.

Can you, Steve? All right. Okay. Yep.

Because it's a good topic. Appreciate it. All right, buddy, God bless. We're back from High Point, North Carolina, knowing scripture by heart. Let's talk about that tomorrow as well, because that's a really important topic. May the Lord bless you all, and by His grace, we'll be back on there tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. Bye.