Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. I hope you want to give me a call. If you do, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. You can watch the show if you're interested. You can go to the CARM Facebook or the CARM YouTube.

Or what you can do is just go to the CARM website. You can look on the home page and you'll see me there. Not a big deal, but hey, it's interesting.

It's fun sometimes. We have a good community of people who have joined in. If that sounds good and you want to participate in that as well, then that's all you've got to do.

Just go to CARM.org for the home page. All right, now we have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. There's a lot of stuff going on. You've got a question about God, the Bible, truth, and all that kind of stuff. Why don't you give me a call and we can talk. I did a Bible study last night and I thought it went well. I've got new technology honed in, so I was able to produce it online. I hope to be able to do some other things that I want to be able to do later with two-minute videos on Christian theology, a podcast, and other things we're hoping to get into.

By way of reminder, I just found out today. One of the guys who works with me goes, well, are you ready for the debate tonight? I said, debate?

What debate? He said, it's in the calendar. I go, what calendar? So, the calendar. I go to look at the calendar and I went, no, it's not there. It's right there in front of me.

I'm like, oh my goodness, there it is. I'm going to debate tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern time, two hours from now. I'll be debating, is Christianity true?

That will be – I'll provide a link on the CARM Facebook page probably so that people can watch it and check it out. So, having to rush – oh, man, I'm so busy. I had to rush, and still doing, to putting something together as an opening and dealing with this issue. I think there was a topic. Let me see.

The topic exactly is, how do you know Christianity is true? So, that's what I'm working on. Today, I'll tell you, today has been one difficult day. Now, aside from all of that, we've got some important things to bring up really quickly before we get to the callers. We have our Friday meetings each morning here at the CARM Intergalactic headquarters. We have some guys from Africa that we've kind of adopted. They're really great guys.

They've been on for months and months and months. They're from Africa we've known for years, and we help support and help expand the kingdom. These are good people. And they're talking about the Muslim insurgents. What they're doing is going in, and they're doing two things.

They are passing out propaganda, attacking Christianity, and ignorant Christians don't know how to answer things, so they doubt the truth of Christianity. Muslims come in and abduct people and hold them at gunpoint and force them to say the Shahada, which is the confession that Muhammad is a true prophet, Islam is true, et cetera, and Allah is the only God. And if they do that, that means they're Muslim. And if they don't do it, they kill them. So, this is what's been going on, and we got word about this today.

It's still happening, and it's happening even more and more. So, I'm bringing this up because I'm just asking for the listeners to be praying for our Christian brothers and sisters in Africa who are under real persecution. They are under real persecution, and they're losing their lives.

And just lift them up in prayer, and even those who are persecuting, the Christians would come to a saving faith and relationship with Jesus Christ. That's what we ultimately want. So, that's what's been going on, and that's good stuff. So, Laura says a thousand views on the Bible study from last night. If anybody heard the study last night, you know, wouldn't mind a little bit of feedback to see.

The reason I'm asking is I don't know if some of the concepts I wanted to get across came across sufficiently and things like that. So, not a big deal, but just asking. So, anyway, three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Alberto, welcome. You're on the air. Hello?

Alberto? Hello? Yes. Hey, you're on the air. Yeah. I can barely hear you. My question is, are you doing math, flex?

Yeah, my question is, does any minister have the right to tell another believer, or is it not worthy to be a Christian, yet because he didn't want to go along with the world? Because I'm kind of a one-timer. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Alberto, Alberto. Huh?

Hold on, Alberto. Could you call up, and that's fine, but can you learn to give me more direct questions? Because I'm not sure what the question is. Do you hear me? Yeah. Yes, I hear you.

I'm just not sure what your question is. Does any minister have the right to tell another believer he's not worthy of being a Christian? Well, the issue of being worthy, nobody's worthy to be a Christian, but we do have the right to tell people they are or are not Christians, depending on a few things.

If a person denies Jesus Christ as God in flesh, denies he rose from the dead, he's not a Christian. You can say that, okay? Are you there? Hello? Did we lose you again? Hello?

Hello? Okay, let's put him on hold and see if he can get back on, okay? Then let's get to the next caller, which is Rudy from Utah. Rudy, welcome, you're on the air. Hey, thanks for having me on, Matt. Long time listener, first time caller.

I just wanted to ask you a quick question. I'm in Utah, of course, Mormon land, and a lot of my friends are ex-Mormons. Many of them become borderline atheists, and today I was talking with a friend who I've been friends with for a long time. I've recently come back to faith about a year ago, thanks to the grace of God. He was bringing up Numbers 22, verse 28.

He blatantly asked me, do you really believe this, that God had spoken to Balaam through a donkey? I just want to get better at defending my faith, so I thought nobody better to ask than Matt Slick. Well, I'll tell you what, two things, I'll answer that, but also, I plan on going down to Utah in June. I don't know where you are in Utah, but I'll be in the Salt Lake City, Sandy area, going down to Provo a little bit, and people down there are interested in having me come speak, or meet at a Bible study, or meet with a bunch of people who just have questions, I'd be willing to do it.

So I'm just going to let you guys know, and I'm going to put a date out later. All right, so the issue is, is this a miracle or not? If God exists, can he perform miracles? He asked them, if God exists, can he perform miracles? Yes, so can he cause a voice to come out of a donkey? Yes, could he cause a voice to come out of a statue? Yes, could he cause a voice to come out of the sky?

Yes, so what's the problem? Are you saying that there is no God, and how do you know that there is no God? Because what you're saying is that you have the ultimate knowledge to know there is no God, which means you know all things, to know that in all places, all time, he doesn't exist. So where are you getting all this from, and why is it not possible that God, if he exists, can speak out of the sky, or even through a donkey, or even through a wacko loser moron like a guy named Matt Slick on the radio? Man, expertly put, that's kind of where my brain went, he's the God, that's the last part. If he's the God of the universe, which he is, the one true God, of course he can do whatever he wants to do and perform miracles how he wants to perform miracles.

We're all under his will, and by his will he does his thing, so that's great. I know a lot of my friends here who are ex-Mormons, I've never been a Mormon myself, but they're all borderline atheists, and it baffles me. If I get it, they've kind of felt they've been lied to all their lives and stuff like that, so it's hard to preach the gospel to them, the true gospel, you know?

Right. Well, I tell you what, if you are, seriously, if you're interested, then what I would say is see if your friends would be willing to meet with me. I'll be coming down and we can meet at somebody's house and we can just talk. They can fire questions at me. That's fine, I don't care. And stuff like that, I can ask them questions and we can talk.

I'm not going to rip them up and chew them out, all that kind of stuff. So just see if they'd be interested. Awesome, yeah, I'll probably do that. I'm not too far from the Salt Lake area. Where are you?

That might be on the table. I'm in Ogden. Yeah, that's an hour north-ish.

That's not a big deal. So, yeah, it's all doable. If they're willing to do that, I mean, I'd even stop in Ogden if they really want to.

The goal is I want to help people. I want to give them answers so they can come to faith. And it's very common that people who are Mormons and leave Mormonism throw everything out. And a lot of them become atheists because they put all their trust and feeling in this false thing called Mormonism. When they find out it's false, they throw the baby out the bathwater. It's a problem. Yeah, very true.

I've seen it myself. Yeah, I appreciate you answering my call and answering my question. Sure, man.

No problem, buddy. All right? Awesome, God bless.

All right, God bless. All right, let's get on the line. Let's see if Alberto's still there. Hey, Alberto, are you still there, buddy? Hello? Alberto? Hello.

Alberto? Yes? Are you there? Nope.

Are you there? Oh, man. I think we're going to lose him.

I'm going to just hang up there because he can call back with a bad connection or whatever it was. All right, let's get on the air with Jacob from Wisconsin. Hey, Jacob. Welcome.

You're on the air. In Matthew 2337, does Jesus have an unfulfilled desire? Okay, that's interesting. So let me deal with that. So did he have an unfulfilled desire?

Yeah. There are different aspects of the will of God. One is called the decorative will of God in that whatever he decrees will come to pass. So he says, let there be light.

It's going to happen. There's also what's called the prescriptive will of God. He says, you shall not lie.

And then there's this permissive will of God that he wills to permit you to disobey, to disagree with him. Okay? And so, there we go.

So that's what's going on there. And so, yeah, it's an unfulfilled thing in the prescriptive sense. He wants them to do certain things, but they don't do it because he is allowing them that position. Okay?

Are you there? Because people like to say, well, they have their free will and it can't be violated and stuff like that. Well, that's just, first of all, what is free will? What does it mean to violate free will? Who says free will can't be violated?

There's all kinds of questions that come along with that. God can do whatever he wants. Proverbs 21, 1 says he moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. So he can certainly bring us to that place of believing in him. He opens the mind to understand scripture as it says in Acts 16, 14 when he opened the mind of Lydia.

Opened her heart to respond to the things spoken of by Paul. So God can certainly do what he wants. This idea that man is sovereign, even over his own will, in front of God is just ridiculous. God is the sovereign king.

He can move us where he desires us to go. Okay? Hey, you want to hold on? We've got a break, all right? Okay? Yes, I will. Hold on, Jacob.

All right. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the line with Jacob from Wisconsin. Jacob, are you still there? You there? Hello?

Maybe we lost him. All right, we'll just move along. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kim from rural hall, North Carolina. Welcome, you're on the air.

Thank you, Matt. My question is coming from 2 Corinthians 4-3, which says the gospel is to those who are lost. My question is, if you are praying for someone to come to Christ, but he has not been chosen, would that be sin for you to pray for that particular person? I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? I'm distracted. Sorry, go ahead.

There's a lot of stuff going on here. It says in 1 Corinthians 4-3 that the gospel is to those who are lost. So if you are praying for salvation for a particular person, but they have not been chosen, then would that be sin to do that? Okay, so we don't know who is chosen by God for salvation or not. Now, people don't think that we're chosen for salvation, but we are. 2 Thessalonians 2-13 says, God has chosen us from the beginning for salvation. So that's a biblical thing. And go to Ephesians 1, verse 4, which says he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

So this is biblical. So we don't know who God has chosen. We don't know what criteria he has.

We just don't know. So our job is to pray for all people and to ask that God would save anybody and everybody we can pray for. That's our job.

And that's what we do. So when it says our gospel is veiled, it's veiled to those who are perishing. In his case, the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving.

This is what's going on. If so many people don't believe the gospel, they don't want to believe the gospel. In part, it's because he denied the true God in their unrighteousness. And that's what they do in Romans 1-18. But also because the God of this world, 2 Corinthians 4-4, has blinded them. So that's one of the things.

But at any rate, so that's what's going on. We don't know who's elect, who's chosen, who's not. Our job is to pray for everybody, preach the gospel to everybody. And the funny thing is, the more we pray, the more we preach, apparently the more people are elect.

Okay? Okay, one other question. Let's just say you ask a person to pray a certain prayer. And then once they do that, they'll say, I never believed that. But now wouldn't that be sin because they're not allowing the Holy Spirit to do his job? They're saying, in essence, if you just believe this, then you are saved. If a preacher says, just believe? If someone says, all you have to do is just say the prayer of salvation.

Oh, just say a prayer. They don't allow the Holy Spirit to use this person or to draw this person in. They just say this prayer and you say it.

They can't be right. But you see, in John 6.44, you can't come to me unless a father draws you. So anybody who does believe is going to do so because God is drawing them. If there is a preacher, teacher, whoever who says, just say this prayer and you'll be saved, well that's false. It's not just uttering words, it's a heartfelt desire and trust in the sacrifice of Christ. But that can't occur unless God's drawing them and working on them. And I can give you the theology behind that. So I think your question, I understand your question, but I don't think the question reflects accurately what the salvation procedure methodology, so to speak, is of God in the whole scope.

I think what you're trying to get at, though, is that if a person is just saying the prayer and that's it, without relying on God and his work, then that would be wrong. Okay? Okay.

I got you. All right. Thank you, Matt. Good for you, buddy. God bless you, too, man. God bless.

All right. Okay, let's get on the phone with Anthony from Oklahoma. Anthony, welcome.

You're on the air. Thank you, Matt, for having me. I do have a question about the central doctrine. I have a question about the central doctrine of the Bible, never, ever. Now, if people who are oneness, and that means that they are not of the doctrine of the Trinity, they cannot be saved.

Is that correct? Well, there's a yes and no to it. I believe that people can be saved in different levels of ignorance. And only God knows that condition of the heart and the mind of an individual by which it would be a reprobate mind. So you could have someone, for example, who doesn't know anything and trusts in Jesus to get saved. And there's a church across the street that's a oneness church.

He doesn't know anything. He just goes into the church. They're talking about Jesus and trusting in Jesus, and he has. And then they say the Trinity is not true. He could really be saved and then go, oh, they say it's not true. Then it's not true.

That doesn't mean he's not saved. It means he's just ignorant. And so the Holy Spirit will work in such a person to eventually bring them out of a cult like that and bring them to the knowledge of the truth. So I believe that there's potential allowance for people to deny some essential things because they're simply ignorant. It's different, however, when someone is very knowledgeable and then in a purposeful decision, knowing the truth rejects the truth.

That's different. And so that's what I would say. They can deny the Trinity in one sense and be saved and deny the Trinity in another sense and not be saved. I believe it deals with the issue of the knowledge and the intention of the heart, how much they're responsible for in that because a new believer can be very, very ignorant about what things are, not know them, deny them because someone said that it's not true, and not knowing anything and then believe it once they hear it. So you see, that's what I'm saying.

It makes sense? Yeah, that is an outstanding answer because you said it right, if you knowingly deny the Trinity, you just believe that the oneness of Jesus they believe in. I know that's absolutely false, but I like that answer because Paul speaks of a different Jesus and a different gospel and the Bible also speaks of God has no partiality when it comes to judgment and the judgment of purpose. Do you have anything to say about that, though, about no partiality and God's judgment and a different Jesus and a different gospel? That's in Romans 2.11, God shows no partiality. Also in James 2, 2-4. But the partiality that God is talking about is the idea of looking at a person's qualifications, money, looks, body, skin, color, gender, age, and saying I'm going to pick that person because of some quality he or she possesses. That's denounced in Scripture. So God chooses based on the condition of what's in His heart and His mind. For example, I'll use myself, He has saved me.

He didn't look into the future to say, I can use Matt, great. But that guy over there, I can't. It has nothing to do with that. So my friends and I, we always ask the question, why did God choose us? We don't know.

There's nothing good in us. What I was saying about partiality as far as the judgment, that's what I was thinking about. Well, partiality regarding judgment, He judges people fairly. All people are going to be judged, Christians and non-Christians alike. The Christians are judged for their works but not their salvation because they've been forgiven in Christ. But the unbelievers are going to be judged, period, for their damnation, and they're going to be judged also with the failure to have done what was right in their works.

For the more evil they did, the worse it's going to be for them for eternity. Absolutely. Okay. Hey, listen, much thanks to you. Appreciate you very much there, Matt.

Keep up the good work. God bless you. God bless. By God's grace, man, God bless. All right.

Ooh, perfect timing. Thank you. Take care, now. Folks, we're at the bottom of the hour. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276.

We have three open lines. Give me a call. We'll be right back. All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show.

This is the bottom of the hour. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. All right, let's get on the phone with Jacob from Wisconsin. Jacob, welcome.

You're on the air. In John 7-7, Jesus says the world cannot hate you. But in John 15-18, it seems that Jesus says the world will hate the disciples. So which is it? Let me ask you, are you a Christian or an atheist or what? I'm just a Christian that wants to understand any preconceived places where they would say that it's a contradiction how to answer it.

I'm just curious where you're getting this information, these things. Well, it's just from reading the Bible. Okay. In John 7. Okay. It says the world cannot hate you, but in John 15-18, it says if the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. Yeah, I'd have to read the context of both.

Let's see, after these things. Jesus was walking in the Sea of Galilee. The Jews were seeking to kill him. The brothers said, leave here and go.

No one does anything secret. Even none of his brothers were believing in him. So Jesus said to them, my time is not yet here, but your time is always opportune. The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its deeds are evil. I'm not sure what that means, that it cannot hate you in that context.

The world cannot hate you. But it does say in John 15-18, it hates you because it's hated me. That's when they're identified with him. I'm going to research that and see why that is like that. John 7, let's see, John 7, 7 and 15-18.

Because once I have time to read the context and see, there's a couple of tricks I do, chiastic analysis and structure and things like that, and a lot of times it just makes sense, oh, I see what's going on. But that one I don't know off the top of my head. Okay? Okay, thank you. Okay.

Keep calling for those questions though, all right? All right? Okay. And, okay. So, okay.

Yeah, there's different senses in which it is used usually. Okay, I think I know what it is. But any rate, folks, give me a call. Let's see, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kyle from Iowa. Kyle, welcome.

You are on the air. Hey, Matt. I don't know if you remember me from Tuesday, but I had a question about a Catholic friend that I was going to have a discussion with about apostolic discussions. Oh, yes.

Do you remember that? Oh, yeah, I do. So, unfortunately, we haven't had that discussion yet. He's been radio silent trying to communicate with him, but I will call you back once we have talked about that. But I did have another question for you. Sure.

For a number of years, I have kind of felt, thought that God is kind of leading me toward a professional ministry of some sort in apologetics and teaching, and I wanted to ask you what was some advice you had for me in trying to discern exactly what my ministry might look like. How old are you? Twenty-seven.

Are you married? Yes. Okay. All right. So you're thinking about going into ministry or apologetics or both.

Which is it? Yeah, some kind of teaching ministry. Okay. Okay, if it's a teaching ministry, you're going to need to get an education. Before you do this, anyway, you need to be praying and asking God what His will is for you.

And if you're married, as you say you are, you need to go to your wife. You need to talk to her about this because, generally speaking, it will be difficult because you're going to have to get an education in order to be a teacher. You're probably going to have to have at least a Master's of Divinity. And so that Master's of Divinity, either that or a Master's of Theology. A Master's of Theology is two years. A Master's of Divinity is three. The three-year MDiv, Master's of Divinity MDiv, is usually for pastoring. You get a Master's of Theology, which is a two-year program, and then you can use that to get a doctorate. And once you have a doctorate, then you can apply for teaching positions in colleges and schools and things like that. And if you want to just teach in a local church, you don't need all that education, but you're going to need to demonstrate that you know stuff.

And either way, you've got to do a lot of studying. Now, that's just the opening statement. So you got any feedback on that yet? Well, I've looked at a couple different seminaries that I think might be a good fit for me. I live near, very close by, Faith Baptist Theological Seminary. Have you ever heard of that? No, I haven't. The Baptist seminary, or Baptist denomination is starting to go south.

So all you've got to do is find out what their positions are. Women, pastors, and elders, homosexuality, you know, things like that. Go visit it, ask the questions, make sure they're legit.

You don't want to go to a place that's going to undermine your faith. Okay? Right.

There's just one thing, you know. And if you're not sure, you can call me or something like that. I can look over the website. In fact, do they have a website?

I mean, what's it called again? Faith Baptist? Yeah, they do. Faith Baptist Seminary? Yeah, the website is just faith.edu. Oh, faith.edu, that's cool. Okay, faith.edu. All right, Faith Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary.

Since we have nobody waiting right now, let me see. Academics apply to faith. Do I choose faith? Interest requirements? Admissions, staff, tuition, financial aid, academics. Okay. I'm trying to find stuff that will tell me what their position is on what they believe. You always want to look at their statement of faith.

And you always also want to ask them specific questions about what's your position on women, pastors, and elders. That's critical. Homosexuality. Good.

They teach that the Bible is a verbal plenary inspiration. Good. God is one in essence. Three eternal persons. Good.

Because he's the Holy Spirit. One person. Two natures. Good. Third person. Holy Spirit. Six days of creation a week. That's good.

Spirit realm. Good. Humanity.

Male and female. Oh, good. We believe that human beings, male and female, originally created an image of God. Good. Salvation.

All of grace through the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ who paid the full redemptive price. Good. Sanctification. Oh, they're dispensational. They're dispensational. Are you dispensational or covenantal? I don't really know. I've heard those three terms. I don't know the difference.

Okay. Call them up. Go to Karmen. Look up covenantalism and dispensationalism.

It'll give you the basics. Then call them up and say, if I were a covenantalist, would I still be welcome here or would I be penalized? If they're worth their salt, they say, no, of course you'll be penalized. Just come on in. Because the seminary I went to was covenantal, but there were some dispies there, and they weren't penalized.

They weren't knocked down for that. Okay. Civil government. Good. Things to come. Rapture of the church.

These are still along. The prophecy must be fulfilled. They believe the next prophetic fulfillment is the rapture will be followed by... Yeah. Okay. They're premillennial, dispensational, pre-trib rapture. Okay.

Yeah. They're within orthodoxy, so no problem there. But they're premillennial, dispensational, which means pre-trib rapture, pre-mill.

I'm post-trib rapture, all-mill, and covenantal. You see, I'd be going there going, okay, would I be okay in here? Most of the time, you have teachers like that in those levels. They understand the differences. As long as you understand what they're teaching and you can back up what you say with scripture, even if you don't agree, that that's fine with most of them. If they say, no, you'll be penalized. You've got to believe this in order to be here. That's a problem. I would say that if they were to, which I doubt if they would, but if they were to say you have to sign on the dotted line and believe in the pre-tribulation rapture in order to go there, I'd say, well, see ya, because it's not biblical to require that.

They had a right to require it, but it's not biblical. Okay? Okay. Good.

They do believe in everlasting conscious punishment. One reason I... Oh, sorry. No, go ahead.

That's all right. I was just going to say that one of the reasons why I was interested in this school is because they seem to have more of an emphasis on learning Greek and Hebrew in their program, and I have heard that there are some seminaries out there that are not requiring that as part of their MDiv or their Master of Theology degrees. Yeah, I had Greek and Hebrew in seminary, and because of what I do, Greek has become quite helpful, and I've forgotten a lot of it, of course, because I graduated 30 years ago, but I still use it occasionally. In my opinion, you don't need it as much as we went through. We went through, it was just deep, and I think the thing to do is teach the basics of Greek, and the tools to use them in Bible programs, because that's what you're going to have in the long run.

If you don't maintain your Greek level, you're going to lose it. That's just how it is. Hey, hold on. We've got a break, okay? Hey, folks.

We've got four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276 will be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to the show. We have four open lines, three open lines if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We're going to Israel next year. If you are interested in checking it out, all you have to do is go to the karm.org website, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and at the top of the website, you'll see a black bar information there. Click on that. You can check it out. By the way, in about an hour and 15 minutes, I'm posting a debate on how to know Christianity is true. In fact, we'll be debating tonight, and we'll put the link information up on the KARM Facebook if you are interested in checking it out. Let's get back to Kyle from Iowa.

Hey, Kyle. Welcome. You still there? Yep. Yep.

Still here. All right. I don't know if I'm helping you at all, but having been doing this for a long time.

No, this is just very helpful. Okay. Good. Yeah. Ask them those questions. Yeah. I've got to tell you, I've got to tell you, make sure your wife is on board with this.

Because if you want to serve God and you're serious about it, life can get quite difficult, and seminary can be very demanding. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Three years of lots of work, and I mean a lot of work. So you have to be prepared for that. Okay? Yeah.

Yep. Okay. Well, I know you got another caller, but I really appreciate the advice. Hey, no problem.

Then call back. I'd like some more, and then I'll try and discourage you some more, okay? Because I said, I'm smiling, I want you to be able to do that, but you just need to know what you're getting into. You have to count the cost. Your wife's got to know what that is too.

If she's willing and you're willing, you just bite off one day at a time, and it gets tough, but it's doable. People do it all the time, and if someone like me can do it, then basically anybody can do it. All right? All right. Thank you very much. All right, Kyle. Man, God bless. All right.

Four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, Roberta from Salt Lake City, are you there? I'm here. Good.

So what do you got? How are you, Matt? Oh, I'm fine.

I'm hanging in there. No. Matt, I just had a real quick question for you. I know lately I've been hearing a lot about this different types of... I don't know what it is. If it's theology or what it is. It's Calvinism. There was something else.

I can't remember what it was. Arminianism. Yeah. I'm just a little confused on that. Because I do like John MacArthur, but then again, I hear some people saying about Calvinism. But I actually think that their teaching as well is straightforward.

So I'm just a little confused what's going on with all this Calvinism. I also watched this gentleman by the name of Kent Hovind. He does the creation series. I don't know if you're kind of familiar with that. Yeah. He and I have debated. Oh, okay.

And so I just kind of watched the segment where they were just talking about the Calvinism and there was some other types of isms and it just kind of got me confused because I enjoy listening to John MacArthur. Yes. I was wondering if you could just shed some light on that maybe. Sure.

What's the big deal with all of that or... All right. I'll explain. Now, when Kent Hovind and I had our debate, it was on Calvinism and our discussion, and he didn't do very well. And the reason he did not do very well is because he doesn't understand what Reform Theology is. And I mean this politely, but he just did not do well. All right.

And that's just the way it is. So I'm willing to have another discussion come on his show or whatever it is and answer questions. All right.

So let me give you a brief... Oh, and by the way, I am a Calvinist, don't know if you know that. Okay. I hold to it. Oh. All right. Okay.

And I graduated from a Calvinist seminary also. Oh. Okay. And I've been defending it for about 30 years, okay?

Maybe even longer. It's something with the predestined thing, right? Yeah. Let me explain. I have read it in the Bible.

Yeah. Let me explain what it is. Calvinism teaches that God is the complete, ultimate, sovereign King and Lord of all things. And that from the foundation of the world, he's the one who chooses who's to be saved. That he chooses who's to be saved. The verse for that is Ephesians 1, 4, just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we'd be holy and blameless before him. That's what it says.

Right. Ephesians 2, 13 says he chose us for salvation. So that's what election is, to choose.

Excuse me. And it says in Ephesians 1, 5, he predestined us to adoption as sons. So election and predestination are biblical.

There are people who say, no, it's not true that God would choose people who are to be saved because that would mean then that he chooses people not to be saved. So let me respond to that with scripture. Okay. I'm going to go through this lightly and I'm going to read some stuff to you here.

Okay. So what it says, does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction and he did so to make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory. So that was Romans chapter 9, verses 21, 22, and 23. So what I'm saying is, well, that's what the Bible teaches. In fact, the Bible teaches that God grants that we believe, Philippians 1, 29, he grants us repentance, 2 Timothy 2, 25, and that our believing is the work of God, John 6, 28, 29.

In fact, he causes us to be born again, 1 Peter 1, 3, and we're born again, not of our own will, but of the will of God, John 1, 13. I've been doing this so long that I've got these things memorized and a bunch of other stuff memorized. And so some people will say no. Yeah, and I read the same thing. Okay. Well, I've read it, so I... Okay.

Let me keep going on this because there's a bit more. So what some people say is that we have free will and that God would never violate our free will. Well, that's another discussion altogether, but nevertheless, I ask them, what is free will?

And that's the other discussion. So I ask, because we don't have a whole bunch of time, did Jesus have free will? And the answer is, well, yeah, of course he did. But Jesus says in John 5, 19 and John 5, 30, so he says in John 5, 19, he says that, truly I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing. So he can do nothing of himself. And then in John 5, 30, he says, I can do nothing of my own initiative, but as I hear I judge.

So wait a minute. So we know that Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of the father. And so the will of the father, that's what he came down for. That's what the Bible says. So he came down from heaven not to do his own will, but the will of him who sent him. So that means that Jesus had free will and yet it's also subject to the predestination and the will of God the father.

So Jesus is proving that free will and God's predestination work together. Okay? You with me? Right. Yeah. Now, one of the more controversial things inside of Calvinism is that Calvinists teach that Jesus only legally paid the sin debt for the chosen people, not for everybody who ever lived.

And that's the one that most people reject. And here's some questions about this, because you know and you've heard that Jesus paid for our sins, right? Right. Right.

All right. Well, if you go to a restaurant with somebody and you pay their dinner bill, does the debt of the dinner bill exist anymore? No. No. So if Jesus paid the sin debt for everybody who ever lived, there is no sin debt left, is there? Period.

It's gone. So how can they go to hell? How can they go to hell? If they say that Jesus paid the sin debt for everyone who ever lived, well, then how can they go to hell?

Well, they've got to believe. But not believing is a sin. Furthermore, it says this in 1 Samuel 3.14, it says this. This is what God says, therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli's house, that sin, iniquity of sin, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. So what God is saying is that there is no atonement for their sins.

So Jesus obviously did not atone for everybody. So there's much, much, much more. I could talk on this from memory for two hours. That's how much I've defended it and debated it. Yeah, and I think that's what they were talking about, what you're saying now about that on the debate or something about the Calvinism. I read a lot too, so I just kind of confused me and I thought, God, I don't understand why he was saying that. So it just kind of confused me, but now I've got a better idea. Try this.

Try this. Try reading the book of Romans, chapter nine, read Romans nine. I've read it, I've read it, and it's really, it's good. I mean, it's pretty, I think our Bible pretty much tells us everything we need to know.

It does. It just seems like now towards, you know, like, you know how things are getting hard and getting, you know, our world is kind of crumbling down, but it just seems like there's so many different, so many different things now and it just like, oh my, it's like, it's almost like it's confusing if you don't really know what they're talking about or. I'll explain.

We're almost out of time. Let me explain what's going on. Think of this in very basic terms. There's two philosophies, God-centered and man-centered, period. God-centered and man-centered. So ask yourself which theological perspective is elevating God the most and which one elevates man the most. So if God is a sovereign, that's how it works. If God is a sovereign king, he has the right to elect and predestine and, but if someone says no, he won't violate our free will, which they don't understand what they're talking about, then they're elevating man.

It's just this kind of stuff. So you know, God, in fact, the Bible says God moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. Proverbs 21, one.

It says that. And we're, and what must, I guess so much I could say, but go ahead. So I just thought, so I mean, we all reading the same Bible, how is it that sometimes people get different meaning out of that?

Is it because of the man like you're saying? Because they're either God-centered or man-centered. So you either start with God-centeredness or man-centeredness.

If they elevate man, man's free will, man's free will, man's ability, man's choice. I'm the one who chose. I'm the one with my freedom of my wisdom in my sinfulness. I'm the one who chose and that's how it works. Don't give me this idea that God chooses us for salvation because I chose him. I know I did.

He didn't really. I'm the one who did this. I'm the one with this arrogant man-centeredness that is judging the truth by their experience.

I'd be glad to debate these people on it, debate Hovind again on it and others and politely because I've been this for so long. I know the topic. Right. And I'm not saying that. They're good people. Oh yeah, absolutely.

It was great. Oh, we're out of time. We're out of time. Sorry about that.

We're out of time. We've got to go, okay? Oh, okay. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend. Thank you, Matt. You too. All right. God bless. Hey, everybody. I'll be off the air on Monday. I'll be back on Tuesday live and we'll talk to you then. Have a great weekend, everyone. God bless. Bye. Another program powered by the Truth Network.