The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, we have five open lines.
877-207-2276. Same as always. Hope to hear from you. And we can talk about all kinds of stuff, of course. We talk about Christian apologetics and everything related to scripture and the truth of God's word. And that's what I like to promote is God's word, his truth, the person and work of Jesus Christ, God in flesh, God in the cross. And if you don't trust Jesus, you're lost. You can't trust the God of Mormonism. You can't trust the gospel of Roman Catholicism.
You can't trust the God of Islam or the God of Jehovah's Witnesses. You have to have Jesus, the real one. So I want to hear from you if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Why don't we just jump on the calls.
Let's get to Alberto from Georgia. Hey, welcome. You're on the air. Well, good evening, Matthew. I have a question. Why do Christians spend so much time, you know, attacking each other, you know, nitpicking every single thing that the body of Christ does, how they worship or how they, the pastors teach, you know, why they nitpick everything, you know, sort of being grateful to the young people who are worshiping God. They're not out there, you know, killing, murdering, you know, they're not doing other things. At least they're in God's house worshiping.
You know, they might use different instruments or different methods of worshiping God. The point is, the whole point is, the point is that God is pleased with it, you know. Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you. Do you think it's okay for, you know, for people to go ahead and worship the God of Mormonism, you know, that God came from another planet and has a goddess wife? Is that okay?
What do you think? No, no, no. I'm not saying that. I know that. I'm not talking about the blatant heresy. I know that. Yeah, I know that. What about... The two biblical Christianity...
I got you. What about tackling, say, Joyce Meyer and her false teachings? Is that okay? Yeah, she's false. It's like Roman Catholics. See, I would raise it like Roman Catholics claim to be Roman Catholics, right?
Okay. And then, they themselves, or even, if you ask most Roman Catholics, they're doing their own history, or the Roman Catholic teachers, the majority probably don't. A lot of them think that joint life, what they call joint life, really, according to the scriptures, is joint worldly pleasures. A lot of the Roman Catholics, they drink, they smoke, they go to nightclubs, salsa, merengue, reggaeton, you know, partying.
So, what's your question? No, and different cultures. Well, my question is, my question is, I'm talking about the true body believer, who has the biblical, true scripture, but other Christians still criticize other Christians how they worship God and the method where they worship God, or they criticize every single teaching, every pastor. I know everything I mentioned got certain beliefs, core beliefs of their denomination, and each one criticizes the other one, and you say, that's false, that's false. Sometimes they do, but, okay, so that's your question.
So, sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't, it just depends on the issues. You know, we should be united as much as possible and agree on the essentials, and just let the non-essentials kind of slide by, not worry about certain things, and I agree with you on that. But if pastors are teaching heresies, then they need to be addressed. So, you know, I would say that. What do you think of that?
Yeah, I agree with you. Like in Snap Out, I see this guy on the internet, I don't see no one but Philadelphia, I don't know if I should mention his name, he calls himself an apostle. So, you know, he accuses the pastors, Christians, meaning three gods, and that's tri-theism. That's not the triune god of the probability of the Trinity. Wait a second, wait a second.
We don't believe a moral is needed. Hold on, hold on, I want to ask you some questions. So, are you saying this guy teaches that the Trinity is three gods, and that, is that what he says the Trinity is? Yes, yeah, he says that the Christians believe in three gods, so they can protect the Trinity, and that's not true. Yeah, that's not true, so he should be corrected. In fact, I wish he would call the show up, and we could just have an impromptu debate about the nature of the Trinity, and what it is.
But, yeah, you know, we should always tackle things like that, of course, that would be a good thing to tackle, yeah. Yeah, because he accuses also the Christian, he believes only in baptizing the name of Jesus on him. Oh, he's a cultist. Yeah, it's a cult. It's one of this Pentecostal stuff, having baptized in Jesus' name.
One-on-one. Yeah, it's oneness. Yeah, it's a cult. He's a cultist teaching, yeah.
Uh-huh. He's misleading thousands of viewers on the Internet, I'm seeing these all the time. You should email me. Well, I'm going to explain it, but if Christians... Alberto, Alberto, Alberto, if you could email me this guy, who this guy is, and some stuff, maybe I can, I don't know, so many thousands of other things I've got to do. What's in a video of him, or something like that? Yeah, if you send me some information, maybe I can do an exposé on the guy. Well, I can send you a video of it, but you can hear it for yourself, right?
Yeah, send it, send it to, you know, go to the Karm website, and at the bottom of the page, you'll see the link for, or the address, it should be info at Karm.org, okay? Okay. No, it's not at the bottom. Okay.
It's at the bottom of the thing, yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah.
Okay. But, like I say, Roman Catholics, you know, claim, they believe in, they say they, like Roman Catholics, they think that going to life is, they think that worldly pleasure is going to life. You keep that separate from, supposedly, the Roman Catholics. Roman Catholics quote that I understand that their theology is wrong, too, you know, but they themselves claim to be Catholic, but they're not really truly Catholics, you know what I'm saying? They're just being religious in the atmosphere of the Catholic Church. Right.
But they think that you go to the Catholic Church, you do your little duty in the Catholic Church, pray, be the camel, but then after that, people go partying, drinking, smoking, and that's enjoying life, but they're just so blinded by the God of this world, thinking that's enjoying life. Right. Right. Yeah, I'm with you.
I'm with you. So do you have another question, or, you know? Well, that was the main one, about the criticism of the other Christians criticizing each other a lot. That they, instead of building each other up, working together as, you know, I understand, like I said, the major and the minor and all that, but unfortunately, too many Christians today, Christians spend too much time attacking each other too much, and the body of Christ is being more attacked by the body itself, rather than the world itself, it's attacking them. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So much division in the body of Christ.
Over, over, could you... Yes, I understand. Yes, I understand. Yep, I definitely understand that. We need to be unified in the essentials and work against the rise of secularism in this culture, and culture, all right? Mm-hmm.
Yes, sir. Yeah, unfortunately, the churches, and another thing, too, I mean, I give up tracks in the past, thousands of them, these three, I go all over with places, but churches today, I mean, I can't judge every church, but it's very rare you see people evangelizing these churches. They just like, they just go to church, go home, and on Sunday after... Yep. I'm with you. They leave, and they go to the buffet and eat, and it's just a routine, monotonous routine for them.
It's not really reaching a loss. Yes, I understand that. Trust me, I do. I talk about it on the radio frequently. All right.
I do. All right. Thank you for taking my call.
That was my question and my thoughts. All right, Elgorton. All right. I'll send you the link to the videos you can see here, if you're still... Sure. Thank you. Info at karm.org, okay? Info at karm.org.
Info... Yeah, just info at karm.org. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right.
You're welcome. Well, God bless. Okay. All right. Hey, folks.
Look, we have five open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you. If you're new to the show, what we do here is take calls, as you can see, or hear, and discuss all kinds of things. So, I just want to let you guys know that I do Patreon videos, and I'll be doing one tonight. You can support us that way. We're going to be looking into getting webinars going.
Actually, I've got a question for some people out there. If you know how to do Facebook advertising, let me know. If you know good technology and stuff for webinars, let me know as well. You can just contact us. We need a lot of help from experts who know how to do certain things in certain ways. I'm very good at theology and apologetics, but I'm not all that great in other areas, and we could certainly use some help for that.
Again, a number, 877-207-2276. By way of reminder, we stay on the air by your generous donations. If you want to help us out, all you've got to do is go to karm.org forward slash donate, and you can check that out right there. Also, we're going to Israel next year. If you want to go, you can check that out as well. Just go to karmisrael.com, C-A-R-M, Israel.com, Karm Israel.
For the rest of this week, there's $100 off if you sign up for the trip. All the information you need is right there on that website. All right, four open lines. Give me a call, 877-207-2276.
Now, I've been thinking about talking about Catholicism. I mentioned it yesterday and how bad it is. Maybe I'll do some discussion on that during a break or something like that between callers, that is.
But we'll see. Anyway, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Alan from North Carolina. Alan, welcome. You're on the air.
Hey, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So Daniel chapter 2 says that God raises up kings and then I believe he deposes kings. Based on that and any other verses that you may know about authority in the Bible, do you believe that Jesus chooses America's president?
There's a definite yes and a no to that. What we talked about here is God's ordination. In Ephesians 1-11, God works all things after the counsel of his will. When nations go bad, he will often raise up kings that that nation deserves. And they will get punished. They will see the oppression that comes from bad leaders. And so God will sometimes intervene and directly raise up someone for that purpose. Other times, he'll just let that occur, so to speak, not as directly involved.
And this would fall under the verse of Ephesians 1-11, he works all things after the counsel of his will. So Biden, as an example, would be at least a candidate for the Daniel 2 reasoning of the judgment of God upon this country for its refusal to bow to God, for its denial of truth, for its hatred of Christ, for its idiocy. And we are getting what we deserve with Nancy Pelosi, with John Kerry. We're getting with Kamala Harris, with Joe Biden. We're getting what we deserve as a whole, as a nation. So they're part of the judgment upon this country. Okay? Okay, so I think you said initially that part of the answer, your initial answer was yes, God chooses America's president.
Is that correct? There's a yes and a no. Sometimes he can directly intervene and raise someone up for a specific purpose. But we don't know if he did that with, so to speak, Biden. We don't know. But we do know that God ordains what servers will come to pass. And there's what's called a decreed of will, a permissive will, prescriptive will.
God can allow certain things to happen as natural consequences of our rebellion against him. Which is, for our bogus puppet president Biden, I don't know. Okay? You want to hold on?
We've got a break. Okay? Hold on.
Well, that's all I had. Thank you. Bye. Okay. All right. God bless. Hey, folks.
Four Open Lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking our calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get on the air with Laura from Utah. Laura, welcome.
You're on the air. Laura, are you there? Hello. Hi. Hi.
Hey. I am calling for Mistaya in the chat room, because she can't call in. She's been asking this for a couple days. So she wants to know if the belief of infants who are not the elect do not go to heaven if they die when they're a baby. If they're not elect, they can't go to heaven, because only elect individuals would be redeemed, because election means that God has chosen those people for salvation. Unfortunately, some people think that our salvation is completely dependent upon our free will.
It is not, because the free will of the unbeliever is enslaved to sin. But whether or not they're elect babies or not, we don't know. My personal opinion is that all babies that die just go to heaven. I can't back that up from scripture, but having lost a child in infancy, that's just my position.
I like to think that anyway. There are other theological issues we can get into. But if election is true in regard to infants, then only elect babies would be redeemed and non-elect would go to hell.
Now people will say, well, that can't be right. I won't ever serve a god like that. Well, then don't serve a god like that. You pick whatever god you want. But the issue is that election is something that is biblical. Ephesians 1.4, God ordains that people come to him and were chosen in him before the foundation of the world. That's what the Bible says. And then he predestines us, so his choosing and predestination is actualizing that choice that God has made from the foundation of the world.
Does that include infants? We don't have the information on that. So if God elects all infants who die because they're infants and they die and he does that, then fine. If he doesn't, then that's fine too. It just depends on what God decides. And we don't know what he decides, so we really can't go much further than that one. And that's a good question, but we don't have an answer because the Bible doesn't tell us if babies who die go to heaven or hell or whatever.
This doesn't tell us. Yes, I'd like to think also that the same as you, that all babies who die would go to heaven. And again, like you said, if it's not in there, we can't assume. We know that God is a just God. In my heart, I like to think that he knew, he foreknew that these babies were going to die, and so he's going to bring them home. Yeah, and that makes sense. And I hope that's the case.
I don't know if it is or isn't. The Bible just doesn't tell us. So all I can do is say, if election of individual infants is the case, then those elect will go and those who won't, won't. But the question is, are they elect or not? We just don't have the information on that, and that's just what it is. And we don't know who's elect, period, anyway. Right. We can know about ourselves, though. Right.
You know, because the Bible says, 1 John 5, 13, these things are written so you may know you have eternal life. So we'll see. We'll just see. Yes, we will. Hey, we will know when we get there and we get to asking, because I do know in my heart absolutely that I am saved, and that he chose me from the foundation, and I am going to be with him. Amen.
Me too. The only question I have is, why did he pick us? You know, I don't get it, because, man.
I have no idea. I know what I see in the mirror, let alone my thoughts. Oh, you're wonderful.
I don't know, it sure is humbling. Oh, no, you're wonderful. No, no, I'm not. Oh, yeah, you are. Because they don't know that you work with Karm, because you're wonderful. Charlie isn't. Well, that just makes me crazy.
And I'm not. What's that? It just makes me crazy to work for you.
It does, huh? A lot of work, but you've been a great asset. So we appreciate that. Well, thank you, and it's been a blessing to be able to work with you and to be a part of this ministry and glorify God in it, so praise God.
Well, praise God. All right. Thank you, Matt. All right. See you, Laura. God bless.
Bye. Yeah, she's great. She's helped us a lot.
Does a lot of work for us. If you want to give me a call, four open lines, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Jim from Massachusetts. Jim, welcome.
You're on the air. Jim. Hello, Max Slick. Hi. How are you? Hello, sir. Hi.
My name's Jim. Uh-huh. Yes. I was going to ask you, what do you think about how the country, I'm not a Christian, but what do you think about the country and how it's heading to from an Illuminati perspective of the Luciferian doctrine? Well, it's evil. Satanism is evil.
It's a great deception, and unfortunately, some people believe it, and they'll pay an incredibly great price when they meet God for judgment. So are you coming from a Calvinist or an Arminian perspective? Well, I'm reformed in my theology.
I'm not Arminian. But that's the biblical position is that Satanism and Sepharianism, all that kind of stuff, is evil. It's of the devil, and it's a great deception.
People want it because they want power, and they want influence or personal gratification in various areas. It's a very bad thing, and there's some evidence that there are Luciferians in our government. They're in government?
Yeah. There's some evidence for it. Now, is it true? Don't know, because they don't know how much information is disinformation. There's a lot of stuff going on.
Okay. I would say it's kind of true, because look at all the Illuminati, like the Georgia guy stones, Bohemian Grove. Oh, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. The makeup of the street layouts in D.C. There's Freemasonry stuff next to the Capitol, the Grove. There are other areas, and there are books written on this stuff. Is there an influence?
Who knows? I don't generally talk about it, because it can't be substantiated, but when you start seeing the same information surfacing over the years, you start to wonder. The Bible does say that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities of darkness. I'm not a Christian.
What are you? I lean more on the satanic. Just so you know, I used to be involved in contacting spirits. There are different doctrines. I'm not going to go into more doctrines. Yeah, I know what it is, but I want to let you know that I used to be involved in the occult before I became a Christian.
The dead, seances, various things, energy, work, auras, crystals, I've seen manifestations. Let me just tell you that if you die believing this, and you don't trust in Christ, the fiery torment and that eternal hell you're going to suffer will be incredible. I really hate Jesus.
You what? I hate Jesus. You hate Jesus?
Why would you hate the one who died on the cross and rose from the dead three days later and by faith and trust in him? You're forgiven. Is he paying my bills? Well, is he paying my bills?
No, he gives me the ability to pay bills. You want to hold on? We've got a break. Let's hold on, okay, Jim? As soon as we continue conversing after these messages, we'll see what happens, folks, if you're still on and we have a conversation. We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, we'll be right back. Welcome back to the show.
We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get back to Jim, if he's still there. Are you still there, Jim?
Yes, I am here, Jim, Jim's still here. So why do you hate Jesus? There's lots of reasons.
What does Jesus mean? Like, I got 2%? There's lots of reasons. Are you just curious? Are you drinking? Are you drinking right now? No. No? You're sober?
Okay. Well, look, Jesus isn't here just to pay your bills. He is the one who died on the cross and rose from the dead. He defeated Satan. I already know this. I already know he was born in the fall.
I already know my history very well and I have a high IQ. So if you have a high IQ, then why would you be involved in something as bad as Satanism? The devil actually just gives you what you want.
Yeah. And your fleshly desires so that you'll join him in hell when you reject God. So that's foolishness.
That's not smart. Look at the thousand years they will reign. There's some things that tell you in Satanism that you will rule with Satan. No.
No. Satan is defeated and he's losing. And we Christians are with Christ and we're the ones who are going to be with him, with the Lord, and all who reject Christ are going to join the evil one in the lake of fire.
And the proof of the truth of this is that Jesus rose from the dead after three days on the grave. So you have to make a decision here. Who are you going to serve?
Are you going to serve the true God or are you going to serve that false evil one? It's because the reason I would tell you that's false is because he makes more sense. It's just like, hey, I could show you how many doctrines of Christianity I've examined. I imagine, like, you see, there's like a hundred doctrines of him to be lazy. Well, the issue here, I'm trying to get, okay, that's nice.
What does Panim mean if you know Hebrew? Okay. So we'll still have like a really educational adult conversation.
Okay. Well, we're going to move along, Jim, but I just want you to know that you, just like everybody else, needs Jesus and you need to trust him. You need to trust him. But you better count the cost of trusting him because he's not just some blonde haired blue-eyed Caucasian surfer dude. Why should I trust him? What? Why should you trust him? I barely trust people.
I stay on the frigid bus. Okay. Well, I would recommend that you read the Gospel of John in the New Testament.
See if you're able to read it and believe who Jesus is. Okay. All right. Well, Jim, appreciate the call.
Call back another time. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate that.
All right. Let's get to Bob from Clinton, Utah. Bob, welcome.
You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey. Wow. Okay. I guess I'll go with my question. What was that gentleman's name?
I'd like to write it down and pray for him. Oh, I forgot. Jim, I think.
Jim, wasn't it? I think so. Yeah. And God knows. Okay. I've got it written down to pray for him. Well, Matt, today, I'll get right to it, 1 Corinthians 9. I'm wondering if you could help me out.
Sure. What specifically did Paul mean? We know he was speaking to the Corinthians, and he was saying that we should finish the race, we should keep our eyes on the goal. Was he talking about running the race in such a way that we have our eyes on the prize and we sort of set everything aside and focus on Christ? Is that what he's talking about, finishing strong?
Yes, that kind of a thing. He's saying here, when you run the race, you're in Christianity. You run the race of Christianity. You run hard. You run well. You run so that you can win. It's not that you're winning something. The idea is that you give your all to it.
That's what's going on. I agree with that, absolutely. I don't understand how Christians cannot be more involved in seeking to expand the kingdom of God. They can do it by being mothers at home and raising children for the glory of God. They can be by being mechanics and doing honest work and not lying and not cheating and doing things like this and then when the opportunity arises to preach the gospel. This is what we're supposed to be doing as Christians, taking it seriously, not be comfortable in our Christianity and then worry about other people evangelizing.
So therein lies the answer. You see it as I do. And Matt, too, I have to wonder, I mean, you look at the church today and I look around at people in my age group and older. I'm in my early 60s, but people that are healthy in their 60s, 70s and 80s that are not so serving the Lord, now I'm not disparaging anyone. I'm simply saying that if we're healthy, and I think Paul may have been talking to some of the elderly in Corinth, we can still finish strong even though we're up in our years. I think you'd agree with that.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I'm 64 and I was just thinking about retiring today and I wasn't thinking about I'm going to. I'm thinking about I'll never be able to, not because I don't have enough money. I mean, we don't have much. My wife and I, but how do you retire from serving God?
I don't get that. And the people who do retire from a regular job, a normal job, and then they retire, hey, they've earned it. They can relax.
No problem. But if they have that ability, you know, they should be getting involved in a church and seeing what way they can use their giftings, whatever it is, in order to further the kingdom of God. It doesn't have to be radio and writing 80 articles.
You know, it could just be something small, going and visiting patients in a hospital or, you know, writing pen pal letters to a prisoner, whatever it might be. You know, it could be just different things. Well, your friends out here like me that enjoy the show, and I'm not here to give you a pat on the back all the glory to the Lord, but I do think the Lord is using you and I do enjoy the show, so no retirement for you, Matt. No, I just can't see it.
I can't see it. I can't see not serving God. My wife said once that I have it bad, and I can't keep quiet about the Lord. When I go to the store, I listen to people talk so that I can see if they're talking about the Lord or anything I can jump in and witness about.
I look for shirts to interact with. I mean, it's just the way I think. It's the way I am, and if I have the opportunity, I'm going to take it. I don't push it open and force it and be rude, but I'm always looking for opportunities. This is the lifestyle that I lead, is my calling. I don't know about other people's calling and how they're to do it, but we're called to use our giftings for God, and I do know this. Absolutely. I agree with that. Well, Matt, God bless you as you continue to serve him, and I'll be out here.
You have a lot of friends out here, so thank you. Where is Clinton, Utah? Where is it? It's a little farming area north of Salt Lake City, about 50 miles out by the Great Salt Lake.
There's still a lot of farms out here and stuff. It's a small area, about 50 miles north of Salt Lake to the west side by the lake. Okay. All right. Well, just curious.
Yeah, because I might be going down to Salt Lake in a few weeks and hanging out there for a few days doing some stuff, so anyway, just curious where Clinton was. Enjoy! Okay. We'll see you, man. God bless. Take care, Matt. Okay.
All right. Let's get on the phone with Cameron from Idaho. Cameron, you're on the air.
Hi, Matt. Not this guy. Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. I know. I thought, oh, I'll ask him a question, and then I realize while I'm in the air, I'm like, well, I must have bad judgment if I'm calling Matt for a question. Oh, man.
That's right, Cameron. All right. So in Romans chapter 1, verse 17, when God is revealed from faith to faith, can you explain what that means? Faith to faith. I haven't understood that.
I know my wife asked me, and I didn't have a good answer. Well, it's the idea of faith to faith, from what I understand it means, is the whole history of the faith in God that has been revealed through the Scriptures from the very beginning to all time. That's how I see it. Now, am I right? I don't know, but I think that's what's going on there from faith to faith.
So the total encompassing of the righteousness of God revealed in the Word of God in history that people live by faith. Hold on. Okay.
Unless that answers it. You done? You want to hold on? No, that's fine. I'll let you go. All right, man. I'll let you go. Okay. See you later tonight. Okay.
Cameron and I are going to go over to somebody's house tonight and do stuff. Hey, folks. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody. Welcome back.
I just want to give a shout out to Carrie Anderson, because Laura forgot to say, hey, Carrie, her husband, just doing it for her. And hey, folks, we're going to be going to Israel next year. I just want to give you a heads up that if you want to check it out at the end of the week, or this week is the last week for $100 off the trip.
If you want to go, just go check out karmisrael.com, and check out all the information. Let's get to Dave from Kansas City. Hey, Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi.
I unfortunately got in an argument on Facebook trying to, which is probably my own fault, getting on Facebook and getting in an argument. But basically, a friend of mine on her post, she posted something from John MacArthur. And a friend of hers posted that John MacArthur was a heretic.
Why? Now, he because he teaches lordship salvation. And I'm on the fence, I'm at three and a half point Calvinist some days, a five point Calvinist other days, I'm on the fence about it, I don't see it as a what I tried to post was this is not a within the essentials argument, it's outside the essentials, it's probably in more the debatable issues argument. And he just came down on me like a ton of bricks and said, I either have to take a stand one way or the other, then he eventually accused me of not being a Christian, because I'm on the fence about it.
About what? Okay, about lordship salvation? Lordship salvation, Calvinism. Well, they're two different issues. Because In his mind, they're not. Well, let me tell you, I graduated from a Calvinist seminary, I've been defending Calvinism for 30 years. So there are two different issues.
And so he doesn't know, though they're related, but they're different. So Reformed theology, of course, is what it is. But the issue of lordship salvation, always ask people when they are so critical, ask them, well, what do you mean by that? Can you please define it? It's not just being obstreperous, it means, what do you mean by lordship?
What's your definition of it? And see if the one that they're accusing of it is teaching that. Because one form of lordship salvation is that you have to make Jesus Lord of all your life in order for him to be your Savior. Well, that's heresy. Yeah.
I mean, you're obviously not at that point yet of sanctification. Right. But my other view is that, well, he's automatically Lord. And it just acknowledges lordship, which we should do.
Right, right, right. So that's not a problem. So what does she mean, or this person mean, whoever it was, by lordship salvation? And exactly how is he guilty of it? Well, he believes that you, you know, first of all, he was telling me that, that, that I don't understand Calvinism and total depravity, because he thinks that you can come to salvation on your own.
In other words, you wouldn't have a total understanding of the lordship of Jesus Christ, you just come, and that kind of thing. The guy should call me up. He should call me up. I know, I told him. And I said, please go to karm.org, because he said, I taught theology at 20 years, systematic theology in a university, and you're an idiot. That's what he said to me. And I said, go to karm.org, and he said, are you not able to thank for yourself? Okay, hold on, hold on.
I got you. He's, he's, he's being very, very uncharitable. He's violating Colossians 4, 5, and 6, for one thing. And also, 2 Timothy 2, 24, and 25.
So I would just, you know, I'd put those scriptures up and say, here's what the Bible says. And you should know about these verses when people get like that. Because 2 Timothy 2, 24 says, the Lord's bondservant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all able to teach patient when wrong. So he's not doing that.
Just say, call him out on that. Look, I know you disagree, but you're obligated under scripture to behave in this manner. And I prefer that you did that, so that we can have a discussion. And then say, can you tell me, can you define for me what lordship salvation is?
Because there are different views of it. And then say, call my show. We can talk about it. Because, you know, I've been doing this a long time, a long time. Yeah, I know. And I told him, I said, you know, look, you know, I'm on the fence, really. And I said, I'm just trying to defend MacArthur that he's not a heretic. He may be wrong, in your eyes, but he's not a heretic. And anyway, last year's message to me, he said, I tried to have a civil discussion. My mistake, you're obviously unable to discern such things.
You need people like MacArthur to tell you what to believe. I'm done here. Okay. Yeah, he's being condescending and insulting and things like that. So he has a... You should probably not do apologetics on Facebook, huh?
Well, no. This is what you do. This is the nature of apologetics in a world where people often are anonymous, don't know if he was or not. And then when they act in bad manners. And so, you know, we all fail, but that's something that he needs to be called out on. Well, I tried to tell him when I studied total depravity in that dispensational Bible college, we thought that man was totally depraved, but he still had an essence of spirit of God in him. And God was like blowing on a flame, like in the Boy Scouts, trying to regenerate that flame and make him come alive.
And I finally abandoned that position. Yeah, that's false doctrine. Yeah.
That's right. But it's not heretical. No, it's not heretical. Not damnable heretic. That was my point.
It's just bad. Right. That was my point. That Schofield and MacArthur are not both heretics. Well, there's heresy in different levels, too. Yeah, that's true.
There's damnable heresy and there's non-damnable heresy. Okay. So... Well, that's a good definition.
I like that. Yeah. So that's why, you know, I always ask people who get obstreperous, I say, can you define your terms first so that I know that we're, we both know that we're discussing the same thing and not talking past each other. That's all you've got to do.
Yeah. And if you won't do it, say, well, I'm sorry. I've had people I've done this with, and I'm not trying to be clever, it's just what's your definition? And I've had them say, well, you tell me yours.
No, no, I asked you. Come on, please. And then he won't tell, he won't say anything. And then I say, well, here's the view I hold to, and what do you think of that? And you draw it out of them and a lot of times they just, you know, wah, wah, and they go away. But that's the nature of it. Yeah. And again, after all these years of study, I mean, like any other thing, I think eschatology and those kinds of things are secondary issues. They're important, but they're not a point of calling someone a heretic or not. Right.
Maybe not over us. Yeah, not over Reformed theology. That's correct.
Are people who claim that Calvinism is heresy, I'd invite you to call the show and talk. That's what he did, yeah. Oh, he said it?
Yeah, he did. Oh, then absolutely. Oh, I would love to debate him. If he's a great theologian. You see, he said that, you know, it was a step for Augustinian Catholicism.
I know. Okay, tell you what, tell you what, go challenge him to contact me for a debate and we'll debate him. I did, I did, but he said, I need to think for myself, quit listening to you.
Great. And don't say, no, no, no, just say, you debate this guy named Matt Slick. You debate him.
And let's see, off of the challenge, say, Matt on the radio said, yeah, you know, let's talk. If you're a guy who taught theology and he called it, I guess, a Daniel heresy, I'd love to have a discussion with him and see what he says. Yeah, it's just one road to Augustinian Catholicism, you know that, right?
Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, I would just ask him, what do you mean by that? And see what he says. That's why he said, that's why we baptize babies because of original sin and you're in one step into, you know, Catholicism and I understand that, but that's not where, that's not even. No, he doesn't get it.
His theology is weaker than what he's saying. Okay. Yeah, all right, thank you. All right, buddy. Okay. All right, let's get to Sam from California. Hey, Sam. Welcome.
You're on the air. Hey, thank you for taking my call. Sure. Just a quick question.
I was raised Jehovah's Witness, still have family, and, you know, as they're still active Jehovah's Witnesses. Just one of my question is, basically, they, well, we were told that the Trinity, the origin of the Trinity, began, actually started at the Nicene Creed, I'm assuming it's 155 AD or something. My question is, is there like any evidence for like pre-Nicene Creed that maybe I could show my family members?
Yeah. What you do is just go to CARM and type in early Trinitarian quotes. Let's see, and, yeah, early Trinitarian quotes by the church fathers. It just shows that that's just what's recorded, and I've got a list of them there, and they're not defining the Trinity, but they're saying things that are definitely Trinitarian, and like Tertullian, who died in 215, we define that there are two, the Father and the Son and three, with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation.
Origin said some stuff, let's see, how about Justin Martyr, for in the name of God the Father and the Lord of the universe and of our Savior Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, they can receive the washing with water. Now, that's not really very Trinitarian, but it is, but it doesn't say a Trinitarian thing like one God and three persons. So here's the thing, when your family member says this, what I'd recommend you do is say, could you please, I would love to see the documentation for that, because I don't want to believe in it if it's false. What you're doing is you're, without agreeing with them, but you're encouraging them to do the research. A lot of times what happens when people do research from their cult groups, they find out the cult groups aren't accurate, and it causes problems, okay? So that's one thing, and another thing I would ask them is define what the Trinity is.
I'd ask them to define it. A lot of Christians don't even know what it is. And I've had Jehovah's Witnesses say, well, it's three separate gods, it started by the pagan council of Nicaea. And I say, well, actually, that's not correct. The idea of Trinitarianism was before the council, and you go to Carmine and read the quotes. Oh, okay. That's awesome. In fact, if you go there, this is what the rest of that quote says, by Tertullian, who died in 215, was born in 160. We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, with his numbers made by the pattern of salvation, which brings about unity in Trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
There are three, not in dignity, but in degree, okay? Yeah. Awesome. Hey, thank you.
You know what? Well, one more quick question, what are your thoughts on Greg Stafford, the apologist? Yeah, I've talked to Greg before, and we've had interactions before, and the last thing I said to him was that he's extremely bright at twisting things and looking for little details in order to make the Jehovah's Witness theology as good as possible.
And I'd give you an example of it if you want. And he wrote a big book, and we had a discussion, and he's formative. I heard he left the Witness organization or something like that. Yeah, I heard that too. I don't know where he is now, though, or what's going on, though.
I think he's still in California, I'm not sure, but yeah, I saw on YouTube the argument with him, and I think it was, oh gosh, what's his name, Laughing's White, James White, I think. How'd that go? Yeah, that was pretty good. It's pretty long, I didn't see it all through, but I mean, I know my salvation is secure in Christ.
Amen. I got called out of that belief, you know what I mean, so I'm just trying to help my family members as best as I can, you know? Well, I tell you what, man, I got a lot of information on Jehovah's Witness stuff on CARM, but I'd recommend that you go to CARM and look up a phrase, and you'll see the article, it's called upon the name of the Lord, called upon the name of the Lord. It is an article that has dumped Jehovah's Witnesses, they cannot get around it. Called upon the name of the Lord, it's an approach of using what the scripture says, and they don't know what to do with it.
Now, I could teach you other means, other things, using their corrupted Bible, but that's good for now, we're almost out of time anyway. Called upon the name of the Lord, got it. Look it up. Look, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Matt. You're welcome so much, buddy. All right, Seth. God bless. All right, take care. Okay. Well, that was Sam from California, and may the Lord bless you, and by his grace, folks, by his grace, we'll be back on there tomorrow, and hopefully we'll talk to you then, save your questions for then, and may the Lord bless you, God bless, bye. God bless.
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