Mat Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. We have five open lines waiting. If you want to give me a call now, just by way of a reminder, we're going to go on the trip to Israel next year. I just talked to the main organizer guy and it's going well. We've got a lot of sign-ups and more people are interested.

If you want to go, you've got to go. I'm going to mention it again towards the end of the show in the next couple of weeks. By the end of the month, if you sign up, it's $100 off the whole trip. You can check it out. If you want more information, just go to karmisrael.com.

Five open lines, give me a call, 877-207-2276. We're working on the new KARM navigation. For those of you who discovered a little bit of a difference this weekend, you'll notice it's quite a bit different and it's going to be changed in the next hour or two again.

This is all what we need to do to get everything working right, quick and slick, as people like to say, or I like to say. Let's see. All right, so we've got that going. You can watch the show. If you like watching the show, you can.

Just go to karm.org and on the homepage you can see the link for the main page. We're going to end up changing that later, but for now it's good. You can also go on Facebook and YouTube and I'll have to mention it because there's a really good community of people who've kind of become regulars, except for one guy, Andrew Gesundheit Jokola from Wales. I mention him on purpose because his name, Jokola, I always want to say Gesundheit every time he says it.

So anyway, I'm teasing him. He's a good guy. We have people from different parts of the world who get in and it's kind of great. We have somebody from Poland, I think it is, and Ukraine.

I forgot where. We've got this guy from Wales. We've got people from Australia sometimes. A nice community of people if you want to join us and you can do that. Just go to Carmen. You can check it out. The link and information is there on the homepage. All right, hold on one sec. Clear my throat. All right, so give me a call.

Five open lines, 877-207-2276. Oh, I just found out that two of the board members are going to go to the Israel trip too. I'm going, they're going to go, my wife's going to go, and some others are going to go. We're not pretty well. That's right, Andrew Gesundheit Jokola. We've got a guy from Vermont. Hey, Patty, how are you? I think it's a guy who can't see.

If it's a guy or a girl, I can't see. Sorry. We have a lot of people there, people from the Carolinas and Florida. Yeah, that's great. Anyway, okay. Now, so I've been doing a lot of debates, not official, kind of impromptu discussions. This morning I had an interesting discussion with someone. It's not a big deal, but I was once again reminded of the necessity of understanding biblical theology and learning what the Trinity is, learning who Jesus is, learning what he's done. A lot of people have this mistaken idea that biblical theology is not really a big deal. All you need is Jesus and that's it. Let me tell you, as I watch TV on Sundays and I watch the religious channels and I see the charlatans on TV, it's upsetting to watch them con God's people. Not all of them, of course, there's a lot of good people there, but a lot of them are con artists. You can watch them try and sell you a trinket for an exorbitant amount of money and it's blessed.

If you participate in getting it, then your life will be better. It's like it was called a talisman. People don't know what a talisman is, and so what I'm going to do is talk about this a little bit. A talisman is a kind of an amulet, an object that has magical or significant powers. Sometimes it's religious powers, religious significance. People will often wear the talisman.

The Roman Catholic Church does this with the scapular. It's essentially a talisman. You say this scapular, thank you very much, and you put the scapular on and it will help protect you from evil, etc. It's a form of the occult. It's a form of Satanism. You wear this thing and it's going to protect you from evil.

The Mormons do it with their sacred garments and the Catholics do it with their scapulars. A lot of times Christians are conned into doing the same kind of a thing. Often they're not saying this will protect you, but they'll say receive your anointing and may prosperity come to you. They don't say it will bring this to you. They imply that there's a connection, and if you get it, it's a good thing.

This is a huge problem. As I mentioned before, it has become my new favorite stupid thing to see. The Urim and Thummim was on the breastplate of the high priest. It had 12 stones, symbolizing the 12 tribes of Israel.

I saw last week a guy on TV, I don't know who it was, I don't remember, but I think it was for $77, send in your seed faith money, that kind of a thing, and we'll send you this key chain with the little 12 stones like the Urim and Thummim from the high priest. I was just sitting there dumbfounded, really just dumbfounded by this. I was watching yesterday, I shouldn't do this because it really irritates me. It's like saying, why do you hit yourself in the head with a hammer? I can't help myself. It's like that. Why do you watch these shows?

I can't help it. I've watched these guys, a few girls, but mainly guys. I'm just appalled, the gimmicks that they use to bring money in. Now, I have been thinking about seeing if I can get on TV on one of those networks. I've got a video room almost set up and a half hour show maybe once a week.

I've got a couple of connections. I think we're just answering questions or teaching theology and naming names. I think that people need to name names like the heretics, like Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland. Name names and cite why they're heretical. Of course, I don't know if I would last very long on TV that way because people don't like to be offended.

You're not supposed to condemn anybody. You're always supposed to get along with everybody and put in your seed faith money. I was thinking if I were there and we had a need financially to keep the show on the air, I would just simply say we have a need financially to keep the show on the air. That's it. We're not going to send you a magic this or a magic that. We might say, well, here's a book I've written and we can ship it out to you like $3 over cost or something like that to pay for this or that. We just need things like that, but that's it. I'd let people know. We don't need it or you don't need it to get holy water or what was it? Oh, yeah, I saw one where it was wood from Israel carved into a cross with a little dove. You could send your money in. I think it was $59. I don't know what it was.

We'll send you this. I couldn't do that. I would not be able to do that in all good conscience. I wouldn't want to make merchandise of God, the things of God, particularly the place where his blood was shed so that I could be forgiven of my sins. I would not want to say, hey, for $59.95, we'll send you this cross from the land of Israel, the actual wood of Israel, see, and you can wear it and feel close to God. It's a charlatan's gimmick. I wonder about the souls of these people, that they would do such a thing and think it's okay.

The very place where Jesus, God in flesh, died on the cross, they're using as a place of merchandise to get more money in. So I was thinking if I were ever on TV in that situation, I would just tell people, we have this need to keep us on the air, and if we get it, we'll stay on. If we don't, we won't. It's all up to God, and we're letting you know. We're not going to give you anything, not going to try and gimmick our way into your hearts, but this is our need. If you like the teaching, please support us, and then move on. And if it goes off the air, it goes off the air. Yeah, Christian gear, Christian gear, right. Anyway, it's something that irks me a lot.

It does. So give me a call, five open lines, no one's calling. Come on, give me a call, 877-207-2276. You can also check out the three schools that we have. I've written them, and they help us keep the show on the air and keep the staff paid and things like that. We charge $33 for them, but as I always like to say, that if you can't afford them, just email us and say you can't afford them and you want the schools.

We'll give them to you for free, okay. We're not here just to make money. We're here to get the gospel of Jesus Christ out.

We want Christians to be trained and to know what the truth is so they can stand for the truth and to defend the truth, and that's what we're doing. So if it sounds good, and Jill Baxter says the schools are great, thank you very much. In fact, you guys can call up and say what do you think of the schools and how they've helped if you want.

We can talk about that. But those schools, we do help them. We do have to pay the Internet. We've got to pay people. That's just how it works. Those are just the realities of ministry and things like that.

But if the schools are something you're interested in, check them out. We do use them to help keep the lights on, but if you can't afford them, just email us and say, Matt said on the radio that I can get it for free. If you can't afford them, I can't afford them. Here we go. And that's it. We've even had some people just say here, pay it forward. Here's a scholarship for schools, just whatever, whenever, whoever, and that's it. So that's what we're interested in is equipping the body of Christ and getting the truth of the Word of God out there.

That's what we want to do. All right, let's get to, let's see, let's get to Dave from Kansas City. Hey, Dave, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi. Hi. Matt. Yes.

I think everybody's great. You're breaking up a little. It's hard to hear you. Okay. I think everybody should pray for you and contribute to your show. Thanks.

I appreciate that. Now, I have a question. When does lordship salvation cross the line into heresy? Because I know some people call one of our famous American preachers a heretic, and I never saw him as a heretic, but they said he crossed the line into heresy with lordship salvation. And I don't know exactly.

I saw a quantum website on it, but I just need some clarity on it. Lordship salvation becomes heretical when it becomes a requirement to be obedient in order to be saved. So, and we've got a break coming up, so let me expand on it a little bit, and we'll talk about that, okay? All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the show, everyone.

We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Dave, are you still? Yeah. That's right.

I was going to say Dave's not here, if you know where that's from. Anyway, you're there. Okay. All right.

Yeah, I'm still here. Okay. So lordship salvation is a teaching that, there's variations in it, but basically it's a teaching that you have to accept Jesus as both Lord and Savior. You have to accept him by faith, but you also have to repent of sin and be ready and willing to do that and make him Lord of your life in all areas. If you don't do that, you're not a true Christian.

The question then becomes, is that correct? So here's the thing. Repentance is following the law. So the Bible says, thou shalt not lie. If you're a liar or a thief and you want to become a Christian, you must stop those things. Stopping them doesn't make you a Christian.

What makes you a Christian is trusting in Jesus. So it's not our repentance and faith that saves us. It's faith that saves us, and repentance is the result of regeneration. Let me expand on that a little bit.

Okay. So regeneration is a change in us, and it's something that moves in us. We're made new creatures, 2 Corinthians 5.17.

We're caused to be born again, 1 Peter 1.3. Now, I hold to the position of what's called total depravity. Total depravity is a teaching that the unbeliever is touched by sin in all areas, heart, soul, mind, body. The Bible says, and I give the references, but it says that the unbeliever is a slave of sin, a hater of God who does no good, doesn't seek for God, etc. So he's not able to repent because he's still a slave of sin. So he will only be able to do varying degrees of sinful things, less or more. So my position is that he cannot have Jesus as Lord without regeneration, and God regenerates a person, and then simultaneously a person believes. And so upon this regeneration, we're then enabled to repent. So I would say repentance and Jesus' lordship is a result of the regenerative work of God in us, not something that we need to do. That's the thing I'm emphasizing.

I did not become a Christian because I chose to repent of my sins and then walked up to the altar and received Christ. That would be works righteousness. And so we don't always say that. So if someone in lordship salvation says, you have to believe and you have to stop sinning, we're not talking about perfection here, but repenting of your sins, in order to be a Christian, then that's a problem. But it could also not be a problem because if they mean that as in it's the whole package that will result, well then it's true. If they say what we mean by it is in order to become a Christian, you have to make the cognitive decision to repent of your sins because that's what's going to be combined with faith in order to do it. Then that would be heresy.

Make sense? Yeah, it does. And it goes back actually to, as you mentioned too, you mentioned total repravity, but perseverance of the saints would fall along that line as opposed to once saved, always saved, right? Yes, perseverance means that God will bring the elect into a place of salvation and they will persevere because of the work of God. Right, so that means that God will perform the lordship of his salvation. In your life, that's correct.

He will be the one who knows it. And I'll tell you right now, I've got a long way to go. I'm just telling you a long way to go, I do.

Go ahead, sorry. No, I was just going to say then, so in perseverance, then it's God who keeps you saved by his power so he is the Lord of your salvation. So he is the Lord. Right, but the lordship salvation thing comes down to the issue of you have to make Jesus Lord of every area of your life in order to be saved.

It's a cognitive decision that you make. Well, he is Lord, but... He's Lord by default. And we don't make him Lord of every part of our life, he is. So if we're the one making him Lord, then it reminds me of that song, which I've got to get the name of it, it's a pretty song with heresy spoken in. Lord, I give you permission.

It's the arrogance that is there. Lord, I give you permission to do this and do that. That's heresy, it's bad. And so, Lord, I give you permission to be Lord of my life is the same kind of a thing. Well, I have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me and he is part of the Godhead, so he is Lord and he's in me. That's right. Okay.

You're a Christian, he's Lord of your life. Now, manifesting it properly, that's the thing. So if you and I were to hang out together, we would both be struggling.

Yeah, we'd both be talking about our failures. We're trying, but yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thanks. All right, man. Mm-hmm. Thanks for bringing it up. God bless. All right, folks. Two open lines. Give me a call.

877-207-2276, Chuck from Burlington, North Carolina. You're on the air. Yes, sir, Matt. I was just curious if you're, well, I suspect you are familiar of deconstruction and you've probably already addressed it on your radio show. It depends on deconstruct what?

Some people try and deconstruct the Gospels, the Book of Acts, various things, so in what respect? Okay. Well, a lady who was on YouTube, Alyssa Chambers, and then there's another girl. Well, Alyssa Chambers, she was a fairly popular contemporary Christian music singer.

Mm-hmm. And she went through this deconstruction. She grew up in a family of devout Assembly of God folks, and she served on soup lines and all different things as a young girl her whole life. And then this church, she went to her church, her and her husband went to her church, and the pastor said, well, let me give you some, forgive me, let me give you, we want to go into a special instruction, you know? And he got her and a number of other people, and he said, look, I don't believe the Bible, et cetera, et cetera, and it just ruined her faith, and it was deconstruction. Slowly deconstructed her faith. Yes, yes, yes. Deconstruction in that sense.

Yeah, it means to undermine something's reliability and truth. Right. And I would love to be able to get those people in a debate and deconstruct their deconstruction, and have Christians see how they can be destroyed, but they need to be dealt with, because they are, as Jude says, you know, wild waves. Yeah.

Absolutely. They're children of the devil, and I do not like to speak like that about somebody. I mean, I believe they always could be saved, but right now they're children of the devil when they're doing it. That's right.

That's right. Just as First Timothy 4.1 talks about in the last days, deception will come and things like this. We have people inside the church who are getting Christians to fall away from the faith, you know? And it's bad news, you know? It's bad news. Yeah, yeah, it sure is, and there's a professor from one of the Reformed seminaries, Peter Westman, might have been Westminster in Philly, I'm not sure, and he wrote a book, Ten Steps to Deconstruction, or something like that, and she wrote the book, Another Gospel, but she's bound now, you know, she came back to a base in the hall.

That's right, we got a break. But anyway, okay, thanks a lot, Matt. All right, man, God bless.

I'm not trying to promote your book, I was just talking to you. Okay. Yeah, sure. All right, folks, we have four open lines, 877-207-2276. Remy, inside of the chat room, give me a call.

Right back, folks. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Okay, folks, we have two open lines, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Yogi from Raleigh, North Carolina. Yogi, welcome, you're on the air. Well, hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. Just a quick little background, I guess. I was raised Catholic and fell away from pretty much all faith after I graduated high school and joined the Marine Corps and went out there as kind of like a prodigal and tried to live my life my own way, at least do, right? And, you know, later on in life, I wound up getting married and I wound up like 18 years ago getting what every Christian would refer to as getting saved in a wonderful church in Michigan. And then shortly after that, moved down to North Carolina and I found a wonderful church down here that I became a member of in 2008 and stayed a member there until about a year and a half ago and joined what was then called Raleigh First Assembly, an assembly of God church. And for me, it is just a magnificent church. It's now called Cross Assembly under the leadership of Pastor Chad Harvey. And I've never felt like the true gospel of Jesus Christ is being preached more. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit when I listen to worship there.

And you made a, I think it was last week, somebody called in and said something about you. And you were saying that you weren't 100% sure whether or not that the assembly of God churches were preaching the false gospel or were an apostate. I'd like you to clear that up. Sure, the assemblies of God churches within Christian Orthodoxy in a broad sense. And what I mean by that is they affirm the doctrine of the Trinity and the two natures of Christ, his physical resurrection, his atoning sacrifice and justification by faith alone through Christ alone. They're charismatic, which I have no problem with. I mean, I'm charismatic, I believe in that stuff. I don't speak in tongues or whatever, but that's that.

They teach two serious problems. One is that women can be pastors and elders. And the Bible clearly says no.

Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach. I've never seen that at the church that I go to. There's no elders that I know of at the church that I go to. There's no pastors. All the pastors are men. Okay, but I'm saying the denomination affirms it. And the denomination that affirms it, it's bad.

So I've done a lot of study on this. I don't know if you've been to my website at all, karm.org, but I've done a great deal of research on the issue of women pastors and elders, and I spent weeks going through various denominational websites and looking up when they adopted women pastors and elders, for those that did. And I noticed that 80% of the churches and denominations that adopt women pastors, 80% within, say, two generations, start adopting pro-homosexuality. That's not to say that any church that affirms women pastors will go that way. It's just obviously it's 80%, so to speak, 80% mortality rate.

That's not a good sign. And so the Assemblies of God adopts this position of women pastors and elders, and they do so, and I've read their statement on this, and they don't make any sense. I challenge them publicly right now. I will debate the issue with their best person.

You get me? The very best person on women pastors and elders. Where I found you was on the Truth Network. You broadcast here in Raleigh, and there is another pastor from the church that I go to who is on the air just before you. He has a radio program.

And what does he say? Listen, I really love listening to your program. I really love listening to your program. I love listening to you.

I found the Truth Network, I think, like two and a half years ago, and it's been such a blessing. What does this previous person say about this issue of women pastors? Well, I'm just saying that you did say one thing to look at.

You said go to the library at the church and see if they have any books. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're talking about different things. You're jumping around.

You're jumping around. So let's focus a little bit. I'm just telling you, one of the issues that is bad, and it is bad, and the Assemblies of God is the Women Pastors Elder issue, which they affirm as a denomination, and they should not, they have no right to contradict Scripture because the Bible teaches to the contrary. And I was saying right now, I offer debate, to debate an Assemblies of God pastor, minister, expert on this issue publicly. Now, I don't have people taking me up on it because I'm going to go to the Scriptures. They're not going to, well, they could try.

They'll rip them out of context. But I've done this for 16 years, Radial, five days a week. I've offered this many, many times.

I've never had anybody take me up on it. Okay, so that's one thing. The other thing is eternal security. They teach you can lose your salvation. Now, there's a lot of great ministers and people of God who teach you can lose your salvation.

And I'm not saying that they're not Christian at all, but I'm just saying that you have to be careful of that because Jesus said in John 6, 37 through 40, and I'd recommend you start reading that pericope, John 6, 37. He says, I came not from heaven not to do my will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of the Father who sent me, that all that he's given me I lose none. So the will of the Father is that Jesus not lose any. But the Assemblies of God teaches you can be lost once you're saved. That means Jesus would have lost them, which means according to what Christ himself said. And the worry that I have, and I've got to be careful when I say this, it's not saying that everyone who believes this will do this, but this is one of the dangers, as there's a danger in eternal security, which I'll explain. But one of the dangers of losing your salvation is trying to keep it by being good. And that's a heresy. No, I fully understand that my salvation is based on the grace of God alone. Amen.

There you go. He chose me, he predestined me. That's not Assemblies of God doctrine, no.

Was that now? You are so correct, he chose you, predestined you. Absolutely. But that's not Assemblies of God doctrine. They don't teach predestination in election. I just, man, you got me scratching my head here, I'm going to have to talk with my pastor for sure. Maybe he does.

I absolutely do. It's been, you know, when you said something about, and I did, the very next time I went in, I checked the library and they didn't have anything, but Kenneth Copeland and you said Joel Osteen, but they did have a book from Joyce Meyers in the library. That's unwise. Go to Carm, seriously, go to Carm and just type in Joyce Meyer, and go and read through some of the things she's taught. And she has taught that Jesus finished the atonement in hell, not on the cross. She's taught that the demons were literally on the chest of Jesus jumping up and down while he was in hell suffering. She says she doesn't even sin anymore. She says you can't be a true Christian if you don't accept what she says about the atonement and Jesus going to hell.

These are all heresies, and they're very serious ones. I've never heard her repent of them. She needs to publicly repent of them, so we cannot call her a Christian, we cannot call her a sister in Christ. This is very strong language, and I'd be glad to talk to her in person about it and have an interview with her. I have a dear friend of mine who I admire and has been a friend of mine ever since I joined the church, the original church that I joined here in North Carolina, and I've talked to him about Joyce, and he says that she's never once ever claimed to be a pastor or an elder.

She just says that she's a teacher. She gets around a lot of stuff, and she teaches heresy. She says Jesus was born again. Jesus paid for our sins in hell.

What does it mean? Jesus is not born again. Born again means that your nature has fallen. You'd be born again.

It's a spiritual renewal, born from above. And if you don't believe Jesus went to hell, you cannot be saved, she says. She also says that it's okay to be called little gods. Anyways, I enjoy your show immensely. I listen to you a lot.

A lot of people do. I really enjoy listening to you talk about these topics, and I think you've cleared up a lot, and I'm going to convince you by saying I love my church and I love my pastor. Sounds like you've got a good church there. Sounds like you have a good church.

It's the best. Well, great. Find out if he teaches the pastor affirms women pastors and elders, and see what he says, just to see. I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask for sure. And go to the car and look at the Joyce Meyer stuff.

Bring in a print it up and see what he thinks of that, and see what he teaches. If you can lose your salvation, what's necessary to keep it? Those are the questions to ask.

I know what questions to ask. If you can lose it, what do you have to do to keep it? If you can lose it, it's dependent upon you to lose it.

It's dependent on you to keep it. All right, brother. God bless. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Here's one open line, 877-207-227-6. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back, everybody. Just want to give you a quick reminder. We're planning to go to Israel by God's grace next year in March. And if you are interested in attending, going with us, you can go to karmisrael.com, and it'll forward you to the right page. It's karmisrael.com, and it'll give you the information. And for the end of the month, through the end of the month, if you sign up to go, there's $100 off for the final cost.

That's up to the end of the month. There's letting you know, karmisrael.com. All right, let's get to, let's see, Joe from Greensboro, North Carolina. Joe, welcome. You're on the air.

How you doing, Matt? Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

No problem, man. What do you got, man? I got a question. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Oh, great. I've got a question about tithing. I've been a Christian for well over 15 years. Had fallen away from my church and getting back into the Word and getting back into church, but I haven't found a church that I want to connect to yet, but I want to get back to tithing and giving back to God what I know as rightfully He is. I've got a couple of churches in mind, but I've also got a ministry in mind that is a drug and alcoholic rehab center that's also Christian-based. Would that be something that would be considered a ministry? Even though it's a ministry, could I give to them and consider that tithing?

I would think so. I don't see anything in Scripture that says you have to give to a church in order to properly tithe. What happened was, in the book of Acts, tithes were given to people that were then dispersed among other churches and other people in different geographical areas to help them out because they didn't have enough food or whatever it was. This is what part of the giving was for. What we've traditionally come to believe is that tithing is for that particular church you go to. Well, there's wisdom to say you pay where you get fed.

You don't buy McDonald's hamburger and go over to Burger King and pay there. But on the other hand, if you're not in a church and in between, and that happens, then you might want to give your money to someplace else. Let's just say I know of people who, for example, give money to an automotive place.

This is where they can give money and say, Here, this is for people who can't afford to have their car fixed. Use this towards that. Or you could give money for, you know, we used to know a woman who, her husband left her and committed adultery and had kids and the whole bit.

And she was struggling. So is it okay then to, say, support her? Have a few people say, You know what? We're going to come alongside. Instead of tithing to the church, we're going to give our tithe to you. I don't see a problem with that either because that's what the church is supposed to be doing anyway. Now, I think it's better if it goes to the church ultimately, but I wouldn't die in that hill. So if you think there's a good ministry to tithe to, go for it.

You know, it's not in this church. Yeah, I did volunteer work for them for quite a while and still do try to help them as much as I can. But now I want to try to help even more, especially when I'm coming back and going to give even more from what I did from before. Phil, I prayed about this and you were confirmation from what I truly felt was correct and right. So I thank you for that. Good.

Here's a little bit more. Tithing is between you and God. No one has to know what you tithe or not tithe. Some people put checks in and they get a tax receipt. That's fine. Some people just put cash in and that's fine.

Not one's better than the other. Some people will say, I don't want to tithe to our church because it has so much money and they're doing a building fund, but I see this little old lady needs a roof patch while it's raining. So I'm going to help do that and do it for the glory of God. Fine.

I just don't see any problem with that in Scripture. Awesome. Well, thank you for taking my call and I do enjoy your show. And I appreciate it and I'll be a continuous listener. Good.

That's what we like. Thanks a lot for calling, brother. Yes, sir. Thank you.

All right. That was Joe. Let's get over to another Joe from North Carolina. Hey, Joe.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. I hope you are doing well, friends. By God's grace.

Amen to that, brother. Hey, I got an off-heology question for you. You mentioned to the gentleman, the first caller, and you said, Dave's not here. And you got me thinking and I'm like, where did that come from? Was that a DC talk? No.

Did they put that on a CD or something? It was Cheech and Chong. Okay. Dave's not here. Okay. I couldn't remember. Oh, it's okay, brother.

It's okay. But you got me rattling my brain and everything and I was like, where did that come from? I think maybe DC talk sampled it somewhere along the way. Well, they're better than Cheech and Chong. Back in my pagan days, I used to listen to them.

It just became kind of like, Dave's not here. You know, it's funny, but they're definitely not Christians. That's right. It was just a joke. I should have not said it because it makes people think about that kind of stuff. But at any rate, it was funny.

No. Hey, you can remind them from where Jesus brought them from, brother. Oh, that's for sure. Amen. That's right. All right, brother.

Is that it? Yeah. Okay. God bless you. You have a great evening. Enjoy your show, brother. You too. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Sarah from Iowa. Hey, Sarah. Welcome. You are on the air.

Yeah. Hi, Matt. Thanks for taking my call. I am a big fan of your show.

I listen often. Actually, we've spoken before, but anyway, I just want to let you know that I love that theology. You're no BS. That's right.

For lack of better words. That's okay. You don't share or quote anything. And I really appreciate your trueness with it all and your knowledge. With that said, though, Matt, I wanted to let something out. This is something that, in my experience, in about 2011, I'll try to be quick here, I had a spiritual experience. I felt like I always had Christ in my heart. I just wasn't pursuing.

You know, I wasn't diligently seeking. I kept kind of saying, well, when I'm 26, I'm going to get to you. You know, I just had this, I was bargaining and dealing and finally, you know, I caught an episode of Joyce Meyer on TV. And I can tell you that I'm talking to you today because of her. My life has grown.

I don't necessarily, she's not my go-to. I do belong to an Assembly of God Church here in Iowa. I do have a pastor, it's all Bible-based, straight meat and potatoes. And I'm learning and growing. I do a Bible study and my faith is strong.

I'm growing in fear in the Lord through my love for Him. And I don't know if I could say that with all of her encouragement. And I just feel, I kind of want to defend her a little bit because I'm just so grateful for some of the messages that really enlightened me and turned the light on for me.

It gave me a spiritual awakening. And I feel, I owe it to her to get me on this path. I mean, she just, for whatever, told me what I wanted to hear. So I just thought, well, I just wanted to go to bat for her a little bit because of my, you know, my experience.

And I'm grateful for her. Well, let's just say that God can use unbelievers, heretics, false teachers, godly people, unbelievers, everybody, in order to accomplish His will. So what do you think about this? He could have helped himself up until the point where he, Jesus, said, I commend my spirit into your hands. At that point, he couldn't do nothing for himself anymore. He had become sin. He was no longer the Son of God. He was sin.

What do you think of that? He was no longer the Son of God. That means he was no longer God. I don't, that doesn't sound right to me. What do you mean?

I'm confused by the question. Yeah, that's damnable heresy. See, what we call damnable heresy is that if you teach it, or you affirm it and believe it that he stopped being God, then you can't be a true Christian because it negates the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice and the resurrection. There's no serious decision. Oh, I understand it's serious business, and I understand it's good for his word. She said that. You know, I don't, right, and I don't know, I guess I haven't heard her say that ever, so that bothers me. The documentation, but she has said it, okay? Right, and I don't agree with that.

And I do believe that there's some connection that should be held accountable for. Hold on, hold on, hold on. She has said this. This is such a serious heresy that the elders of her church should bring her up on charges and charges.

This is that bad. It's equivalent to saying Jesus is not God. She said that Jesus was the first human being that was ever born again.

Okay? She said Jesus paid on the cross and went to hell in my place. And as God promised, he rose up on the third day, God rose up from the throne and said to the demon powers tormenting the sins of God, sinless son of God, let him go. And she says his spirit went to hell because that's where we deserve to go. There's no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth, that Jesus went to hell. And what she means is he went there and suffered. You can't even be a Christian unless you believe what she says about this.

And I'm going to say it right now. If she does not repent of this, she is a false teacher. I don't care how much nice stuff she says, because even the Mormons that teach that God came from another planet and has a goddess wife, they can help you by saying nice things that have truth in them. But we as Christian men and women need to call out the heretics and say, I'm sorry. You may be good in a lot of other areas, but you cannot, you cannot insult Christ.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with you. And I've never heard her say that. So I've never heard her preach anything like that. I've only heard her, I've heard her confess of her own inequities. And I, you know, I don't know if you say that, that's what she said. And you're right. It is important business. And I've got this document from her books.

All right. So, Kenneth Copeland has said heretical things. Benny Hinn has said heretical things. Joel Osteen has said heretical things. You can understand something, the body of Christ is weak and it doesn't know the scriptures. And so false teachers and teachers that tickle ears will arise just as the Bible prophesies. This is what's happening. And if she were to repent, if she were to come up and say, look, I said these things in the past and you know what? They're just flat out wrong. A recant of them.

I go praise God. All right. I've never heard her recant of anything like this. No one's ever told me she has. This is so serious, you can't call her a Christian. It is. Okay.

Well, at least she does repent of that with the case. It's hard to say. I don't like saying it. It's what I like about you, Matt, is that you really are like, I'm not sugarcoating.

This is what it is. And if it hurts your feelings, then I lose a listener. You know what I mean? And I appreciate that. You're all business. It's serious stuff. And I love your, yeah, it is serious stuff.

Because a lot of us just kind of want to pick and choose or what sounds good or, you know, take what we want to hear. No, it isn't just about a roses here. Being a Christian is tough work. This is real deal. And it is not always easy.

That's right. It's not. But it's real.

And we need to know. And it's not easy for me to say this either. Just so you know, it's not easy to say it. I don't like saying it.

It's not a pleasure. I know. It is. It's not. I know. It's not.

I know it's not. But, you know, she said, she said, she said, she said this, he became our sacrifice and died on the cross. He did not stay dead. He was in the grave three days. During that time he entered hell where you and I deserve to go because of our sin. He paid the price there.

Well most important decision you'll ever make by Joyce Meyer, second printing, May 1993, page 35. That is damnable heresy is denying the sufficiency of the cross. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you, Matt.

Thank you for keeping my call. I did. Yeah. A little letter.

I'll listen to you and have a great time in Egypt. Okay. Thank you. God bless. All right. Jan from Virginia.

Please call back tomorrow about Marking. God, that's interesting. And once saved, always saved. Remi. Aw. I wish you had called earlier. May the Lord bless you. Hey, folks. We'll be right back, or not right back, back tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. God bless. We'll be right back.