The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877-207-2276.
We have four open lines, so why don't you give me a call. I just want to remind you that we stay on the air by your support. If you're interested in keeping us on the air, all you have to do is go to karm.org. We have free schools if you're interested. Just go to karm.org forward slash schools. You'll find information out for those. We're going to Israel next year by God's grace, so if you want to check out the Israel trip, karmisrael.com.
It will forward you to another website, karmisrael, c-a-r-m, israel.com. I think that's about it actually. There's always stuff to talk about. Tell you what we're going to do, just jump right on the phone. Let's get to John from New Jersey. Hey John, welcome. You are on the air. Hey man, so my question was about end times.
How far are we into the return of Christ? Now I'm switching it up to have you heard about Sean McCraney? Oh yeah, no Sean. Yeah, I've hung out with him before.
We've eaten before together, debated, etc. and he's gone off the deep end. Just flat out, he's gone off the deep end and he's basically apostate now. He can't, you know, that's it. I wouldn't listen to him.
Oh yeah, yeah, because Apologio Studios had something, the Bible versus Sean McCraney. I didn't even get around to listening to it. Why do you think he is not, like, you know, disbelieving in the Bible at this point? I don't know what's happening to him because, well no, I just don't know what's happening to him. He's just gone off the deep end and a lot of people have warned him and tried to call him to repentance and he's not having anything to do with it and that's what it is. So, sorry, but that is what it is.
Maybe I should do a page on him or something like that so, you know, Sean McCraney. He was a nice guy but, you know, I like him but, you know, he just got off the deep end, theologically. Okay. Well, so yeah, my second question was, you know, how far are we into the return of Christ? About 2,000 years. The end times. Right, I know what's been about that. You mean how long before Jesus returns?
Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, like, I mean, does the temple have to be rebuilt or something? Yeah, that's one of the views that the temple needs to be rebuilt in Jerusalem. So, in my opinion, you know, I used to think that when I was younger I would see the return of Christ.
Now I'm 64 and I don't think I will. I think I'll die before he comes back. I think it's going to go on for decades more. That's what I think as things get really bad. But the longer he tarries, the more people can come into faith and believe and trust in him. So, you know, other than that I really don't know what to tell you.
I don't set up dates about when he's going to return, nothing like that. And we'll just see what happens. It's got to get really bad first. It's got to get really bad and the Christian church has to go apostate. And that hasn't happened quite yet.
It's happening. You know, we've got teachers on like Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland. They are evidence of the apostasy along with the Catholic church. So, you know, how do we understand it exactly? I don't know.
But the apostasy must come first before Christ returns. Okay? Yeah, I really wanted to ask you this.
It might be a silly question. I don't know if you have callers waiting, but what do you think Jesus is doing right now? He's interceding for us.
He was 62725. He's being our mediator and he's doing at the right hand of God the Father. In heaven, that's in the place of authority. But other than that, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I just don't know.
Wow. Yeah, because, I mean, heaven's forever. I'm thinking, you know, what is he doing forever and what are we doing forever? Well, we will be in the presence of God and it's going to be joyous. It's going to be joyous. And it will continue in a joyous manner forever. The unbelievers, unfortunately, will go to eternal destruction, which means eternal torture in the fires of hell if they don't repent and come to Christ.
Without end, it's going to happen to them. Yeah. Okay. All right, Matt.
I don't want to keep asking you questions, but I'm praying for you and I love the ministry. And I'll talk to you later. Okay, buddy. God bless.
All right. Thanks a lot. Hey, folks, we have two open lines if you want to give me a call.
877-207-2276. Brittany from Louisiana. Brittany, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. Longtime listener and a big fan.
I just have a quick question. I was listening, was referred to by a friend to this series on ABTV. It's called, I believe, well, I won't even mention the name. But anyways, it's about Cosby Han. I also know he came out of the ministry of Benny Han and he reformed and will be accepted to that teaching that his uncle had done. And it was all about a biblical husband and a biblical wife and raising kingdom children. And it was really, really good.
I think I'm an assistant principal at an elementary school. I have a two year old and a newbie. I'm going to have another little girl who's going to be here in August. And our husband and I were very, very excited.
But the part that I really struggled with was Cosby and Anthony Wood's view that, and while I don't disagree, but they said, you know, a woman, the design that God has for the family is for the husband to provide and a woman to stay home with the children full time and those things. And I just, I think I just left without feeling so ashamed and so guilty because, you know, when we're home with my son, Rowan, me and my husband are very purposeful and intentional and we don't put tablets in their face. We're constantly on the floor with him, spending time with him, disciplining him, you know, those types of things.
And I try to give my very 100% attention to him in the evenings, but I still do. I'm a working mama and I just, I'm just trying to find if there's that balance or if I'm doing something wrong here and we're collaborating biblically. Are you mean you're working outside the home? Yes, sir.
I'm an assistant principal at an elementary school here in Louisiana. All right. So is it biblical for a woman, a Christian woman who's married and has children, is it biblical for her to work outside the home? Let me read you some scriptures.
Okay, Proverbs 31, 16. She considers a field and buys it from her earnings. She plants a vineyard. Ooh. Yes. That's outside the home. Yes, she's a worker. That's right. Yes.
31, 20. She extends her hand to the poor and she stretches out her hands to the needy. So she's working outside the home. Mm-hmm.
So you can work outside the homes. Okay. No problem. Okay. Okay. You know, the, you know, my wife.
Well, it was just a bit more rigid and it was the way it was presented. Well, I think it's a beautiful thing for them to be a state home, people to be a state home. Yeah. I long to be with my child and there's no doubt about that. I mean, I truly, I hate that they care for a large majority of his day. It breaks my heart.
But I do love my job and I love the ministry that I have there with my students. Well, good. But I just didn't know if I needed to give that up. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you and your husband.
Yes, sir. You're walking with the Lord and there's no problem between either one of you that the needs of the house can be met sufficiently and you work outside the home. I don't see anything unbiblical about that.
A woman, as I just read you, is Proverbs 31 woman. She considers a field and buys it. She's doing commerce and she's planning a vineyard. This is so that she can feed herself and others and she's making money out of the vineyard.
That's one of the things they would do. She extends her hand to the poor, stretches out her hands to the needy, so she's involved with those outside the home. So it's not a biblical requirement that a Christian woman mom only be in the home. What if your husband dies?
I guess they question like the salvation of the child, like the likelihood of them coming out of their, you know, their quote-unquote church kid or like, you know, their salvation. To me that would be so rigid. Wait, wait, wait. I'm confused. I'm sorry.
Am I cutting out? No, no, no. I'm trying to understand because I thought we were talking about, is it biblical for a woman to work outside the home? Now you're talking about the salvation of children. Yes. I apologize. They said that's directly correlated, not that it guarantees, but that, you know, in order for us to make sure that our children can go out into the world and be able to, you know, not become one with the world, but they could become a gift and it's our job as parents to be able to do that. I'm with you.
All right. The normal thing, the norm is it's best if a Christian woman is able to be home and take care of the kids. That's not chauvinism. It's not genderism.
Absolutely, absolutely. It's just that the children are so valuable and so important that for a mom to be home to raise them is a complete honor and if she can just stay home and do that, then praise God. My wife did that for years and years, stayed home and took care of the kids, and I worked. And, you know, if she wanted to get a job, I wouldn't have had a problem with it provided the children didn't suffer inside of it, you know, and stuff like that.
But biblically, it's okay for a woman to work outside the home if that's what you and the husband arrange and the children aren't being compromised, you know, just things like that. There's no problem with it. Okay. Okay.
Well, thank you for putting my mama heart at ease, Matt. Okay. Well, just with the scripture. Just with the scripture is what it says. Yeah, absolutely. Proverbs 31, 16, and 20.
Those are the verses that you can just go to. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Well, thank you so much for your time. I truly appreciate you. Well, thank you.
I appreciate that you call and you listen on the radio. All right. Have a good day. You too. Thanks. All right.
Okay. Let's get to Kay from California. Kay, welcome. You are on the air. Hi, Matt.
This is Kay. I called a couple weeks ago about speaking to my pastor about the masks and the whole COVID situation. And I actually was able to speak to him on Sunday and it actually went not too good. So. Okay. So tell me what happened. Yeah. I spoke to him on Sunday.
I began just asking him what his thoughts were on the situation considering that now vaccine passes are now being made and how that's going to be in society and my concern with that and what vaccine passes. Oh, you mean a passport that they're talking about where you get a certificate saying you've been vaccinated so that you can then buy and sell kind of thing? Yes.
Travel. Yeah. I'm very much opposed to that. Very much. Yep. And that you'll eventually have to use it to leave your house or have a job. Things like that.
You know, just little things. Very serious. So I brought this up to him and said, you know, where are we going in terms of our personal church?
Do you have any projects or anything in the works? What are your thoughts on this and speaking up to the church about it? And his answer was that, you know, his focus is on the word of God and that we're already making a statement with the church being open and our church is open and we do allow people to wear masks or not wear masks. And I just kept asking questions and digging to the root of what he truly believes about this time. And he became upset and eventually just told me that, you know, my concerns are my concerns that his concern is merely the church.
And if there are people within his church that are afraid that's their problem and really not his problem, his concern is just to preach the word of God. Okay. Hold on.
I want to hear that because I'm curious what he was upset about it specifically. So, uh, folks will be right back after these messages. We have one open line 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show everyone.
Let's get back on the air with Kay. Are you still there? Yes. Okay. So he was upset. Your pastor was upset about what was it specifically? I think what really kind of fed him was when I said, why, why aren't we at the church starting to speak up about this? That's directly affecting society. He got upset because he told me he's not, he's neutral on the mask thing and he's the kind of person that'll put it on and put it off again and put it on again and take it off again depending on who's around.
Like it's weird. Okay. I understand. So, so what we're talking about here is the issue of the mask is separate from the other issues that you're talking about. You're talking about, uh, the mask as a mandate from the left who want control and power and that they're going to use this to get further power because the secular left wants power and the mask, in my opinion, the mask is a symbol of what they can get people to do. Is that what you're kind of getting at and he's not buying into that, right?
Yeah. He's, he's neutral on the, on the matter. And I'm telling, I keep telling him cause he's saying, you're seeing this, you're, you're being too political here and we're not, you know, I'm not about to get into the politics. I'm going to focus on the word of God. And I keep telling him, the word of God says to be involved with politics because Christ is Lord over all areas of life. And so if pastors are out there listening to me right now, you've got to understand Christ is Lord of everything, not just your Sunday morning service. And, uh, politics is necessary for the Christian to be involved with politics. Absolutely. It's what we are obligated to do.
So that's another issue. So here's why, yeah, so here's why this conversation was kind of a dumpster fire because while I asked him the question, he said, do you believe in the separation of church and state? He said that the church is above the state, but that, you know, Jesus reigns over and that if anything, we're deliberately be involved in politics. But the weird part is that he said, I'm not about to die on this Hill and I'm not about to speak about this in church because I don't want to take off people cause we do have Democrats in the church. It's weird. It's like, okay. There's Democrats in the church, a Democrat, a Democratic party, which is pro homosexuality and pro abortion and pro socialism. He doesn't want to offend them.
Wow. He doesn't want to take them off. He wants to reach through them with love. Well, that's not what the Bible says to do. The Bible says to speak the truth in season and out of season and to follow Christ and pick up the cross and fall after Christ crucified. And what this means is that we speak the truth. There are people in the congregation that you don't want to offend because it might hurt little feelings because it might be Democrats or Republicans.
Well then, so be it. Let the chips fall where they may. His theology, if this, from what you've said, I don't know his position, but if this is his position, his theology is weak. He doesn't understand God's sovereignty, God's elective work, the power of the gospel. Now we're here to preach and equip the Christians, not kowtow to leftists or rightists. Rightists who may or may not like something we're going to say from the pulpit.
And that's just how it's supposed to be. The Christian man who does not preach the truth according to the word of God is the kind of man who will on occasion consider the congregation and not offend anybody. And so I remember once when I was preaching at a particular church in Southern California, I was going to broach an issue and it was on them using the Lord's name in vain, which a lot of them were doing in the congregation. And I had preached there for probably about the 10th time as a guest preacher. And I had everybody stand up at the beginning of the sermon and then I had everybody look at the exits. I pointed with the exits.
Were you guys all see them? Yes. Yes.
Yes. This is good. Now what I'm going to do, you can all sit down and I said, I'm going to preach a sermon and I'm going to call you here to task.
And if you leave, those are, now you know where the exits are. It's not going to bother me. Not going to bother me at all. Feel free to leave.
I won't think anything about it if you don't like what I'm saying. So let's open up our Bibles to, and I went to Exodus 20, talked about using the Lord's name in vain, what this means and the call to repentance. So you see, the thing is, it's not that I'm the great example of anything, but I'm going to tell you that the job of the preacher is to equip the Christians for the work of ministry, not to sit there and worry about offending somebody in the congregation.
The truth that offends nobody is not the truth of scripture. And so I will say this on the radio and I'll say it again as an example. I'd be in the pulpit and I'd say to anybody, if you're sitting here in this congregation and you're listening to me preach right now, I'd say, if you're voting for someone who is pro-homosexual, pro-abortion, pro-socialism, you're voting for something against scripture and you ought not do it. And if you don't want to come back here next week, that's fine.
I don't care. But I'm telling you right now, this is what you're obligated to do. Follow God over man. Follow the truth of God's word over the wisdom of man and politicians and the leftist wacko media.
Now I'd tell them and people need to hear it. It's because of this laissez-faire attitude from the pulpit of this misunderstanding of what church and state separation is that they say they don't want to get into politics. Well, they're supposed to. If they read the Bible, they'll see that politics is all over and capitalism is taught, representation is taught, right of self-protection is taught. And it says to protect the innocent and the weak and the widows. And the innocent and the weak are certainly those babies in the womb. We're supposed to be protecting them and not promoting candidates who promote homosexuality and pornography and all the crud that goes on.
So pastors have got to start preaching to please God and not the congregation. Okay? Yeah, it's just, Matt, I'm right now I'm in an environment where I can't really talk about any of this at all because no one is really going to back me up.
That's normal. So what you do is you, you know, if this is on your heart, you go to a Facebook place, you go to Twitter, you go to whatever it is, and you use those facilities till they kick you off because, hey, you got to have free speech according to what they say it is. But, you know, you can offend anybody. So go out there and just preach and teach. I say this on the radio right now, what I'm saying. And I would say it from the pulpit. I'd say it in a Bible study.
I'd say it in my articles. And because my standard is the word of God and I've studied where the relationship with the church is with politics. And we're supposed to obey the government, but we're all supposed to disobey the government when it violates scripture. That's what the Bible says. And when you preach that you're supposed to disobey the civil authorities when they violate scripture, that's what the Bible says to do, then politics is a necessary topic inside of the scriptures. And so what we've got to do is preach it when it's necessary. Not every day.
That's not the point. Well, we've got to preach it when it's appropriate for us to preach it, you know, as we go through the word. When it's there, preach it. And when you get the socialist moron wackos who are brainwashed in our leftist schools who are producing children who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag and think Marxism and socialism and Black Lives Matter and critical race theory and white supremacy, all the stuff that they're buying into the leftist wackos, they buy into that. You know, our country's in bad, bad, bad shape.
And when it creeps into the church, that means our country's in even worse shape. So, you know, I just say it like it is. And I offend people.
A lot of people. And then I say to them, wah, wah. Well, you're lucky in that sense. I guess I'm just going to have to live two lives where ironically in the church, I can't really speak my mind.
And then when I'm out in the world, I can speak my mind. That's that time we're living in. And if only more people were like you where they realize people my age, I'm not even really 30. And I work with people who are in their early 20s and they go to churches and we're hungry for the word. We don't want mamby-pamby stuff in the church. I agree with you when you said open your Bibles and go to this book.
And it's starting to infect my church where my, he used to preach church in the Bible. We've got a break. Hold on. Okay. We'll be right back. We'll get back to you for the last minute after the break. Folks, one open line, 877-207-2276. If you're not offended, hey, give me a call.
If you're offended, give me a call. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show. It's okay. Let's do one more minute and then we got to go. Got other callers. So, uh, you were saying something that we had a break.
So what was it? I'm just, just, I, I don't even know, I don't even know anymore. It's just, it's frustrating. You just, just preach the word of God is all I'm saying.
I'm sick and tired of walking around here like I have a third eye and a third head. It's very simple. This isn't a medical issue.
This isn't a political issue. This is a spiritual warfare. They made that very clear when they said that churches had to be closed and yet we dispensaries and strip clubs were open. This has been a target on the church since day one. And we have to pray that this demonic deception leaves the church. We have to stand up and be the salt of the earth in the light of the world.
What are we doing sitting in the corner praying? The reason why I started evangelizing was because you said pray and go. We need more men like you that will speak the truth and not encourage people to just, to just appease and silence. You know, J.D. Hall, I heard a sermon of his.
He said that we are not to empathize, we're to sympathize because sympathizing makes you do things. So starting today, all the believers out there, if you truly care about your communities, your family, and you know the truth, don't send any further by sitting on the truth just to appease your brothers and sisters that don't understand what's going on. Be the light.
Be the leadership that you want there to be. In Jesus name. Wow, I couldn't have said that better. Good for you. That's what we need in all Christians.
Yep, and then we can change the world. Yep, I'm with you sister, so good stuff. Good stuff. Trust me, I feel your frustration.
I do. All right. And I've got to go to Bible study tomorrow, so that should be fun. Well, just remember, be wise because we're to use wisdom and there are times to speak.
I don't go to Bible studies anymore because I mess them up, but I try not to say anything because it's easy to mess people up. Not that I don't want to offend anybody, it's just a lot of people can't handle a lot of stuff, and you've got to bring them along to get them ready as they mature in Christ. But it's the job of the pastor to equip Christians for the work of ministry, not for the work of hammock theology, mamby-pamby theology. We're called to be warriors for Christ. That's what we're called to be, in a gentle and loving, consistent way.
That's what we're called to do. And that means that people might not come to the church and tithe, but that's what it is. In fact, I went to a martial arts place today because I heard the owner was a Christian, and I was someplace. I walked across the street, and it turns out he loves the Lord. He's been shot, he came from India, all this stuff, and he works very, very, very heavily with the youth in our city, and there's some gangs in our city, and he's doing a lot of work with them.
So praise God. And he said that there was a church that he contacted, or they contacted him. They're very, very interested in his evangelism approach and how he does things. And he said that what he said to them was it takes a lot of hours to work and to get with people, and then they become saved, only one in 20 become saved, and they don't become tithe givers at your church because the ones that he works with are the street people and youth and things like that. And he said that they said, oh, well, okay, well, nice talking to you. Bye.
I remember going, wow. That's what he told me today. So we have a need in our church of complete repentance in so many areas, but you know what? There's a lot of good pastors out there preaching a lot of good stuff, and they are out there.
We just need more of them. That's all. All right.
Got to get going. Okay, Kay? All right. Thanks, Matt. Bye. All right, Kay. God bless.
All right. I like her. She's awesome.
Three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Give me a call, folks.
Danielle from Tacoma. Welcome. Hi, Matt. It's a real pleasure to speak with you.
I just discovered you today. Oh, okay. So I'm honored to be on the phone with you right now.
Okay. My question is about baptism, and I saw an article you wrote on CARM about who can baptize people. I was christened as an infant, and my husband and two sons have never been baptized. And it's really been on my heart these last few months to do that, and they're really excited to do it.
And they want to do it in a local river, and we want to do it surrounded by a really close community. And my husband has two mentors that are in their 70s, very wonderful Christian men, biblical men. One has had a lifelong ministry.
He's been a truck driver and has ministered to truck drivers his whole life, and just really wonderful, influential men in our lives. And we'd like to have my husband and sons baptized by them in the river. And I guess I know your article says that believers can baptize each other, and I just wanted to confirm the validity of that non-clerical baptism, and then also ask you... Let's do this one first, okay?
Okay. So I'm going to read you some scriptures out of 1 Peter chapter 2, 1 Peter 2, verses 5 and 6. I'm going to read verse 9.
So this is 1 Peter 2, 5 and 6. You also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture. Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious cornerstone, and he who believes in him will not be disappointed.
Now, 1 Peter 2, 9. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you. It's called the priesthood of all believers. This is one of the things that the cults don't like and Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy don't like. But the priesthood of all believers means we all can act in a priestly sense, in the sense that we can bring others to know who Christ is. We can intercede for them in prayer and other things because we have that authority.
We have that in Jesus. So a truck driver, if he's a Christian, loves the Lord, walking with the Lord, he can baptize your husband, no problem. Nothing in Scripture says that you must have it be done by a pastor or an elder or anything like that. Nothing in Scripture says that's the case.
Okay? So if I were there, if I were there, if I was at the river, and I baptize people in the river here in Boise, it's pretty cold. But if I was there, and let's say the truck driver is going to baptize your husband and the boys, make sure they're believers, but they're going to baptize them.
And someone said, well, Matt, you're here. You're clergy. Why don't you do it? I'd say, I don't need to do it. Have him do it. That's fine. Unless you want me to, I will, but go for it. That's what I'd say. All right?
Okay. And do I need to be rebaptized? I was christened as an infant by a chaplain in the Navy on a Navy ship. What do you think about, I know you're not supposed to really do it twice, but I know infant baptism is different from claiming your belief.
Yeah. Christening is a form of baptism. So the question is not easy to answer because there's some theology behind it. And I'll give you a little bit of theology, but I want to first say, in Ephesians 4-5, one faith, one Lord, one baptism. But it doesn't say only get baptized once. Now, I'm going to be going, Lord willing, to Israel next year. And we're going to be going to the Jordan River, and we're going to arrange it for me to baptize people. And I'm going to be quite confident that they've already been baptized. I don't believe that their, so to speak, second baptism in the Jordan is a denial of the first. It's just that they, hey, let's do it again in the Jordan. That's where Jesus was.
And it's because they love him and they want to go through that. No, I don't have any problem with that. Theologically, there are those, and I could make the case, that your infant baptism is sufficient because it's a covenant sign. Now, if the chaplain knew it was a covenant sign, the parents knew it was a covenant sign, then I believe it's a valid baptism. But if I were a pastor of a church and you were in the congregation, you said, I was baptized as an infant, and let's say I ask questions, it all seems to be legitimate, I would then turn to you and say, but if you want to get baptized again, I'd be glad to do it.
Because it's what you want in your heart. Nothing in Scripture says you can't get baptized twice or three times. When it says one baptism, it doesn't say one numerically can only be one, but there's only one Christian baptism.
It doesn't give a number of how many times you can do it, though one is sufficient. And since a lot of people don't affirm infant baptism, which is fine, then I would say that if they want to get baptized as an adult in addition, that's fine too. I don't see how God being upset with us for wanting to make sure we're doing what we can right before him in this, which is not super clear in Scripture in this area. Okay.
Sounds good. See, when I set you free, you're not under some legalism. And let's just say the advice that I gave you is wrong.
Let's say that in my ignorance I gave you some bad advice. Do you think God's going to judge you for that? I had a good heart when I did it.
My heart was in the right place. That's right. You want to honor him.
That's what counts there for that, okay? Okay, God bless. We've got a break. Thank you. All right, we'll talk to you later. Thank you.
Okay. Hey, folks, four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? 877-207-2276. Give me a call. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.
Here's Matt Slick. Everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877-207-2276, and you can give me a call. We have four open lines, so I want to hear from you. We'll get to Mike from Michigan. Mike, welcome. You're on the air.
Hey, Matt, how you doing? Okay. I'm sorry, can you hear me?
Yes, you can. Okay, all right, I was calling because I had a conflict with one of my friends. He was trying to convince me that Satan was, before he was a fallen angel, in heaven he was the high priest in heaven. He talked about how he tried to correlate some of the scriptures with him having stones in his chest area, and I was correlating that to the Levitical priesthood, how the high priest had those stones. And he was talking about a temple in heaven. I'm like, I never heard of this.
And I'm like, there's a sound right there. Satan, or Lucifer at the time, was the high priest in heaven. And then I used to hear it growing up sometimes in church, and I know that was wrong. He was like, he was over the choir in heaven.
He was the choir director. So I want you to give me some context, man. Help me out here.
Sure, all right. So what he's talking about is out of Ezekiel 28, 12 through 14. And so what I'm going to do is read it to you. And this is considered a description of Satan, of Lucifer before he fell, by many people. Some it's not.
There's a little bit of discussion and debate. Because what it says in verse 12, it says, Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God, You had the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. And then it does this weird thing in verse 13. You were in Eden, the garden of God. And so when it says the king of Tyre, and then switches to you were in Eden, this is why a lot of people say, no, it can't be the king of Tyre. As sometimes is the case in prophetic utterances in the Old Testament, this switch like this just occurs. And then the New Testament will take this and say, this is what it meant.
This is why it was there. But nevertheless, you were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering. It doesn't say chest plate. It says your covering.
The ruby, the topaz and the diamond, the barrel, the onyx and the jasper, the lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald. And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets was in you on the day that you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God. You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. So now you can see the cherub, which is a type of angel, was in the garden of Eden. And this is why they say it was Satan because it goes on. You were blameless in all your ways from the day you were created until righteousness, unrighteousness, excuse me, unrighteousness was found in you.
Now I'm going to do something else here. Go to Isaiah 14 and it says this in verse 12. You have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn. You have been cut down to the earth.
You have weakened the nations. But you will sit in your heart. I will ascend to heaven. I will raise my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit on the mount of the assembly and the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High.
Nevertheless, you will be thrust down to Sheol to the recesses of the pit. That's Isaiah 14, 12 through 14. And so some think that's the reason Satan fell because of pride. All right, let's go back to Ezekiel 28. So to say that he was our priest is incorrect. He was not the priest. The priest is, after the order of Melchizedek and the priesthood, he had to be male and the priesthood wasn't instituted until later. There was no priesthood issue there.
So he's wrong on that part. Some people think that because his name is Lucifer, light bearer, it might mean this is just conjecture. It might be that Lucifer was in charge of, so to speak, the angelic worship to God and that he became prideful in himself and fell. Now, some people say that this has to do with music as well, and there is evidence for that because it says in verse 13, the gold, the workmanship of your settings, but another rendering is tambourines, and sockets can be flutes. So this is why some people think that Satan was involved with worship because of the music of singing and adoration of God and that he was used, excuse me, he was involved with that and then fell because of pride, the five I wills of Satan in Isaiah 43, 12 through 14. And so that's why some people think all this stuff because of that.
And then there have been people who say that he uses music, modern-day music, to seduce people because he was involved with music and being in his essence before he fell. So anyway, there's some of the information, all right? Does that help? Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. Because he was saying to Perry Stone, he was saying the same thing, and he was directing me to YouTube.
And I'm like, totally I rejected it because it didn't sound right. And then the whole thing about temple in heaven, have you heard anything about a temple in heaven? A temple in heaven, yes, there's a spiritual temple in heaven. So what would be a need for a temple in heaven? Go ahead, I'm sorry.
No, it's a good question because the Bible talks about the rebuilt temple and some say that the city of God in heaven, but it's probably not a literal something. And this is a difficult thing. I've not studied it that much. But when I've read through and come across it, I don't quite get what it's saying. I just haven't done a study on it.
But I will if a better caller calls up and they say, what about this too, this wheel that's squeaky against the grease, that's my procedure. But maybe I'll take a look at it and see. But the offering in Hebrews talks about offerings being made by the Lord in the heavens. And so what's really going on? And is it literally an offering? Right. And there's some discussion about it because he's a priest. And it gets complicated. Let's just say that.
Who is he offering it to? Yes. Okay. Well, thank you. I really appreciate it. Okay. This sounds good, buddy. All right, man. God bless. Okay. All right. Let's get to Manuel from Milwaukee Manual.
Welcome. You're on the air. Are you there? Hello? Hello.
I'm on the air. Hey, brother. I've got a question. I've been discussing with a brother lately. He denies election.
And also I've been walking through John 6 trying to show him. But then also he started bringing up the ransom theory. Uh-oh. Is it because of election?
Are those two connected? And how can I refute it other than saying that's dumb? Yeah, the ransom theory is bad news. So let's deal with the issue of election. One of the things you could do is get an old Bible and sit down with him and say, Dude, this election thing, obviously it's not in Scripture, obviously, so let's go to those verses that talk about it and let's just do a marker and black them out.
Okay? So we can start and you can go through. Matthew 24, 24 and Ephesians 1, 4 and Romans 8, 28, 230. There's all kinds of verses that actually talk about being chosen. 2 Thessalonians 2, 13, he chose us for salvation.
That's what it says. That's what election is. And you can go to Ephesians 1, 4.
That's the best place to go. It just says he chose us in him before the foundation of the world. So that's election to be chosen. And he's clearly just denying Scripture. He's just denying it, as many people do.
They don't like the idea that God chooses us for salvation and it's not up to our wisdom and our ability, but it's up to God's mercy. And you can also take it in Romans 9, 9 through 23, and then if you're in the same room with them and you read through it, I'd get close enough to hear, to listen, the steam coming out from the gaskets out of his skull. Because you can hear it. Yeah, you don't like that. No, I don't like that.
Okay. It's fun. It's fun with Romans 9. Every time I went through Scriptures about election, he claims that it's just arbitrary. And why would God do that? He kind of holds to it like a universal.
No, no, no. God's never arbitrary. To say that God is arbitrary is to not address the Scriptures. Nothing is arbitrary with God.
He works all things after the counsel of his will. Ephesians 1, 11. So for him to say God's arbitrary, say no. If I were you, I'd look at Ephesians chapter 1, verses 1 through 14.
He talks about him choosing us, that's election. Predestination, which is predestination. And then he works it all according to his will. It's verse 11. And I know, I'm going to say this to people who are listening who don't like this doctrine. You've got a problem. That's what the Bible teaches. I tell them, hey, you don't like it?
That's not my concern. What does the Bible say? You're obligated to follow what Scripture says. It says he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.
Check this out. This is 2 Thessalonians 2, 13. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord Jesus, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation. That's what it says. A friend mocks me and says, that's what it says. So that's what it says, okay? So tell them what it says, and he's going to stop denying the word of God.
Yeah, that's pretty much the point I'm at. I'm like, well, this is what it says, and I don't know what else to tell you. And then he just sent me a bunch of stuff on the ransom theory. Oh, yeah, the ransom theory.
I'll tell you what. The ransom theory is that the idea is that the ransom was paid to Satan, okay? And tell him that all the sacrifices in the Old Testament were always offered to God, never to Satan. Satan doesn't own us.
We don't belong to Satan. And that Jesus satisfied the law. Now, what I would do is go to Carm and look up the legal aspect of the atonement, okay? Look up the atonement and legal. I think there's, let's see, atonement, legal.
Let's see if it comes up with the article I'm thinking about. And I go through there, and from memory I can just give you a bunch of scriptures. So this is called what is the penal substitutionary atonement theory, all right? And go to that, and you will see lots of scriptures right there, and that is plenty. The ransom theory is heresy. It's heresy, okay? We didn't, you know, Jesus did not pay a ransom to the devil. It was an atonement to God because God is the one who is offended by our sin. That's how it works.
So the ransom theory is seriously bad, okay? All right, thanks a lot. I appreciate it, brother. All right, man, God bless, buddy. All right, let's get the last caller, Jack from Nevada. Welcome here on the air, man. Mr. Slake, good to talk to you again.
Oh, God bless. We've got one minute, so gotta hustle. One minute.
Real quick, family. Had a conversation with them yesterday, mandatory vaccine passports, predecessor to the marketing feast. I was warning them, and they pretty much laughed me off.
Now, my thing is this. I know that Satan, he sometimes does whatever he can to get in people's minds and stuff like that. My question then became at that point, at what point do you just leave people to their own? I've been telling them about stuff like this for a year, and I mean, we were raised Christian, but it doesn't matter what we're raised.
That's what we choose into. My thing is, at what point do you just let people who want... When do you let sleeping dogs lie? Or do you keep trying to wait tomorrow? We're out of time. Call back tomorrow, because this is important. What are we going to do about this? What's the attitude of people?
And what's the attitude of the Christians' relationship to this? We can talk about it tomorrow, okay, buddy? Seriously, we're out of time. Thank you. Okay.
That was Jack from Nevada. Hey, folks, by God's grace, and only by His grace, back on there tomorrow, and hopefully we'll talk to you then. God bless everybody. Have a great evening.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-12-03 18:38:47 / 2023-12-03 18:59:11 / 20