Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. If you want to give me a call, we have five open lines.

All you have to do is dial 8772072276. I want to hear from you. We can talk about all kinds of stuff. Of course, there's the political stuff going on.

I'm not a politician expert, but we can talk about that if you want. What we can do as Christians. What should we do? We should be praying, of course. We should really be praying very seriously. Also, if you have questions on Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i Islam, give me a call.

And also, Roman Catholicism. What we do is we are coordinating more and more on the issues that are related to certain spiritual events on various calendars and things like that. Did you know that this early week of the year 2021, there are, let's just say within Catholicism, there's stuff about Mary and dedications to Mary and things like that. So, it might be that I discuss Mary a little bit per what the official Roman Catholic Church documents say. Now, we've got callers coming in, so give me a call. We can talk about anything. But I want to throw something out and see what you think. I say that Catholics actually worship Mary, and they raise her to the level of being a goddess, a semi-goddess. And they're going to just say, no, that's not true. So, if you want to call me up, we can talk about that. I've got a lot of documentation here. I do this every now and then.

I'll read through some of the stuff that a group will teach about a certain subject. When it comes to Mary and Roman Catholicism, you just cannot believe some of the stuff that they teach. And it's so foreign to Scripture that they virtually raise her to the level of a goddess. And then they'll say they don't worship her and she's not a goddess. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

And some people talk about that as well. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get on the phones with Randall from West Virginia. Randall, welcome. You're on the air. Randall, on the phone with Randall. Hello, Matt. This is Randall. I've talked to you a few times. I'm the one that was electrocuted and all that. Oh, that's right.

Yeah. But I had what I wanted to bring out. I had an experience many years ago. I don't want to go into the experience because it was a very supernatural, but all these years I have wanted people to understand what happened to me. And I was kind of based in, I realized in the last couple of years, I've been kind of basing my whole Christian life on that.

And I got on with some of the chat friends in your chat room. And I have realized that I just wanted to share this with people. I have realized that I was basing my, I was looking back at that and kind of putting everything on that experience that I had. And I've realized that talking to like Jimmy Smythe and Melissa, that my life does not, my Christian life should not be predicated by an experience that I had. It should be predicated by how I relate to others and how kind I am to others and all of this. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Your Christianity is not based upon how you relate to others.

It's based on your relationship with Jesus Christ. That's it. Right. Okay.

Yeah, I understand that. Okay. Let me ask you, do you have a question though? Do you have a question? Yeah, I have a question.

I'm getting a spam call. It'll go away in a second. Okay. My question is, with this being in my life, with me knowing that this happened to me and me, I hate that. Um, with this happening in my life and me knowing that this happened, I have always wanted people to understand what happened to me. Well, let me ask you, cause you keep saying what happened, but you don't say what happened. So what, what happened?

If you can give it to me briefly. Okay. I just hate to go over it, but it, I was praying one night and I was raised a, a basically a fundamental Baptist and we didn't believe in, I was a cessationist, didn't believe in anything like that. I believe all that.

But I was praying one night and I was in a dire straits and I was needing help and I was talking to God and I heard like at the time I thought it was like a waterfall, but I guess it was like rushing wind like it says in the Bible. I don't know, but I can't explain it all Matt, but it, but I, I spoke in a tongue in a language or whatever it was. I don't completely understand it. I know what I said and I know what I kept saying over and over. Okay. Um, and I could even tell you that if you wanted me to, but it's okay.

So you spoke in tongues, you had a movement of the Holy Spirit and you spoke in tongue. Yeah. Okay. But now all of my, for decades now I have thought I want people to understand this.

I want them to see what, you know, and you know, so many people were there at the time. Okay. But, um, I just want to know if you have a question related to this. Yeah. Should, I guess my question was, I was kind of speaking it there, but my question is how, how much should I go on this experience in my life?

Because it only happened really twice, many years ago. Let me jump in, um, with you here. Experiences are certainly valid as long as they don't contradict scripture period.

That's it. We are experiential. We want to experience things. I have no problem whatsoever with people speaking in tongues. I, I defend it. I believe in all the charismatic gifts for today. I don't speak in tongues. Um, but I have other gifts. My wife says the gift of being obnoxious and irritating. So that's my spiritual gifting.

I use it. Yeah. You know, but there are charismatic gifts out there and I know a lot of people in the reform camp like myself, uh, do not, a lot of people who are reform deny the continuation of the gifts. I affirm them. The Bible says in first Corinthians one seven that you not lack any charisma, any charismatic gift while you're waiting for the return of Christ. And so, uh, I affirm that. So no problem. But nevertheless, so what you can speak in tongues, you can have a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom.

You can prophesy. Uh, I don't have any problem with all of this. Not a problem at all. Uh, just don't judge your spirituality based on that. You judge your, that experience based on scripture.

And if it doesn't violate scripture, then praise God. No problem. Okay.

I think that was the question I was getting to. I can't base it all on that, but, um, but you know, some of the calm chat people have kind of helped me realize that and that they're very, very nice, very, you know, good understanding even though they don't see it the way I do. But I just, I just wanted to call in about this and I would like, and I'm going to let this go. I'm going to let it go.

Uh, my sister was there who is a Muslim now, but she, she, she don't deny something happened, but she described it as something different. But let me, I want to get off, off of here and let you go on. But let me tell you what I said.

Can I do that? Okay. This I know, and I have written it down in all of my Bibles since then was almighty God, creator of heaven and earth, author and redeemer of my soul. Uh, to whom be glory and honor forever and ever, not only in this world, but in the world become world without end. Uh, I just, I don't see that that violates scripture in any way, but it was just me communicating with God.

No, I think no problem. Praise God. And I was, and I was by myself, but no problem at all. Good stuff and good stuff.

And just, just a second more. I, I did, it did get me to where I was a fundamental Baptist. I went and checked out a couple of Pentecostal churches. Well, when I listened to them, when I listened to them talk in tongues and everything, it was like pouring cold water down my back. It was not what I experienced. And I, I, I, I knew that it was, it was not right.

What I had was something totally different. That's all I had. Good. Okay. Good.

Praise God. Okay. Well, thank you, Matt. I just, I just wanted to call in. I, I told a couple of them that I would call in and clarify this, but I'm going to, it's just like a burden. I'm going to take off of my heart because, um, I can't expect everybody to understand it.

I just need to go on with my Christian life. There you go. Well, good. Appreciate it. Thank you very much, man. All right, Randall. God bless.

Okay. Let's get, uh, on the line with Clayton from Detroit. We have four open lines folks. 877-207-2276. Give me a call.

Clayton. Welcome. You're on the air. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Okay, cool. Um, thanks for, uh, had a quick question.

Sure. How do you, how does that distinction that Gruden makes between the two levels of prophecy? How does, how does that work? Like, I know I read about like, uh, one example is when, um, um, I can't think of the name off the top of my head, but he prophesied that Paul would be arrested, um, in Jerusalem by, uh, I think he, he said the role, uh, the Jews, but then in fact it was actually the Romans that arrest him. So he, he prophesied in general that that would happen, that Paul would be arrested, but that, um, the specifics he got wrong. And it seems like Gruden believes that and also believes that, um, that that was a real, uh, prophecy, even though it got specific details wrong. So I wanted to, to know, like, how do you distinguish, do you think that God can give us a word and then it's kind of like a, like you're only able to make out some details of it, like it's a faulty radio or something or how does, how does that work exactly?

I just am curious. Well, I don't know. I've not read this issue within Gruden. I don't even know what book you're talking about that. He's, he's mentioned this.

If it's systematic theology, systematic theology, if you know what page, uh, then I can go to that page and check it out maybe during the break. But uh, generally, generally the thing about prophecy is sometimes it's vague and sometimes it's very specific and we've got to discuss the issue. Why would God not be very specific in some prophetic utterances? Well, it might be that by being specific, the prophecy therefore can't come true. So for example, if there was a prophecy that a certain individual will do a certain thing on an exact day, an exact time, uh, then everybody would know that, uh, and maybe that person could just not do it, uh, because he knows that exact moment.

Um, and so prophecy a lot of times is when God ordains what shall occur and he does it in a general sense and not necessarily sometimes as specific, but those sometimes it is because it depends on the nature of control and the parties involved. We've got a break, so please hold on and uh, we'll see if we continue with this afterwards. Okay. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

We have three open lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on the line with Clayton from Detroit. How are you doing there? Still there? Good. Yep. I'm still here.

All right. So I found the path. Hey, I found what page? I was going to say I found the page in Gruden systematic theology where he says that, um, if you want the page number. Yes. What page?

It's a 1052. He talks about it. Yup. Yeah.

That's where I'm looking at right now. I just, I found it and read through it. And what it reminded me of was, um, you know, was something in the book of acts. So who was it? Let me ask you, who was it who nailed Jesus to the cross? Was it the Jews or was it the Romans? The Roman soldiers? It was the Roman soldiers. That's right. But what it says here in acts two 22 and 23 men of Israel, listen to these words, Jesus and Nazarene, a manic, uh, attested to you by God with miracles.

Amen. Attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs, which God performed through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know this man delivered over by the predetermined plan and for knowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of goddess men and put him to death. So Paul or Peter is saying to the Jews, you're the ones who did this, but it was actually the Romans who carried it out. So what we see here is in the scriptures is that, well, the Jews are the ones responsible.

They are the ones who arranged it, but someone else did the actual nailing, but it was them who arranged it and did it. So it could be said that both did it. And I think this is what's going on. Yeah.

I agree with you for sure. Yeah. That's um, I actually, I take that as, as, um, his prophecy was accurate because it was the Jews that arranged Paul's arrest, but it seems like Grudem is saying, well, here's an example of a prophecy that isn't precisely correct. And I didn't know if you kind of subscribe to that idea that there can be kind of like, uh, you know, 50% right type prophecy.

And I was just curious if you believe in that. No, I, and I was reading through it. I didn't see what, where he said that. So if you've got the exact wording, I could do a search for the exact words right there on this page. Uh, because I only read the last paragraph on page, uh, 1052 and then the first one in 1053. He says it's in part B. He says this is exactly the kind of fallible prophecy that would fit the definition of New Testament congregational prophecy proposed above.

Okay. And looking at it, it's kind of down there a little bit in that first paragraph in B. Yeah, I'm seeing it. So this is exactly the kind of fallible prophecy that would fit the definition of the New Testament congregational prophecy proposed above reporting in one's own words, something that God has spontaneously brought to mind. I'd have to go through that to see what he means by this, but I would not agree that any prophecy given by God fails.

It can't because God knows all things. So we already know in scripture that, um, one party can do the actual action and another party can be blamed for it. And we see this as in Acts 2, 22 and 23. I don't have any problem with saying, well, that's probably the kind of thing that's going on here as well in Acts 21, 10 through 11 when it talks about that. I agree for sure. Yeah.

So I think that's what's going on. And I've had the pleasure of talking to, uh, Wayne Grudem, um, a couple months ago, you know, we did a seminar together online and, uh, it was great privilege, you know, he's, he's a great man of God and it's his, I've used that systematic theology so much. It's great, but he's, you know, he's not perfect. And, um, you know, so, um, I wouldn't agree if he were to say it actually failed.

I wouldn't agree. If I can, I want to just ask you something then, because, um, I'm not, I'm a cessationist. I'm obviously open to different views. I'm just still learning.

I'm young, you know? Um, but it seems like the consistent position, you're taking a consistent position so far from what I've asked you, but it seems like the logical consequence of that view is that whenever someone prophesies, what they're saying is the honest stuff, but it's God's grief. It's direct revelation from God. Would you agree with that statement that whenever prophecy happens, it's the honest stuff?

They have new stops, but yes, it is. If, uh, if it comes from God. Okay. So then if that's the case, then couldn't it be that if any person prophesied and then wrote it down, what they had been revealed by God in that case, whatever they had written down, even if it was on a piece of napkin would become scripture.

Nope. And just go to first Corinthians 14 and you can read first Corinthians 14. And in there, they're speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, which is done by the spirit of God and then prophecy. And yet none of these things were recorded and considered scripture. So we can see that that kind of, of actuality occurs, but it's not intended to be scripture. Now the old Testament prophets wrote and that scripture, what qualified the new Testament writers to write and it became scripture?

Well, God's ultimate ordination. Now Matthew and John were disciples of Jesus. And so they had that authority by being his direct disciples. And they wrote scripture because God ordained that they would write scripture. Now, Matthew and John could have written some other documents. They could have even described what Jesus did. I'm not saying he did or didn't. I'm just saying it's certainly possible that they wrote something else, but it wasn't intended by God to be in the Canon. The inspiration of scripture that God intends to be in this Canon is different than God moving through someone in a prophetic sense. So instead of talking about anecdotes I've heard, I can tell you that one time I was with a girl and I was taking her home from a Bible study.

And I don't make doctrine out of this. I'm just telling you this is what happened. So it's not hearsay. And she said she was going to go to Australia in a couple of weeks for a mission.

And I can remember very clearly what happened. I just knew she wasn't going to do this. And I actually said to her, you're not going to do this. You're not going to go.

You're not going to do your mission. You're going to stay. And in five months you're going to meet a guy. He's going to become your spiritual mentor.

And in 18 months you and he are going to have a special bond and do a ministry work together. And then this presence feeling, whatever you want to call it, was over. And I still remember it. Well, two weeks later she went to Australia.

I said, oh, okay. I had bad pizza that day. Turns out the next day she was home. She got off the plane and realized she wasn't supposed to be there. She came home.

She didn't do her mission. And five months later she met a guy. He became her spiritual mentor. They got married at 18 months.

Went to England on a mission together. And she actually told me that everything I prophesied came to pass. Now I'm not doing this or saying this, hey, look at me. No, no. I can say, this is what happened.

It's not hearsay. Now, is that inspired? Well, I'd say, yeah. Is it meant to be scripture?

Of course not. Any more than in 1 Corinthians 14 when they would prophesy and understand it. It doesn't mean to be scripture. So the cessationist argument that things that are inspired of God must be scripture is refuted by the scriptures in 1 Corinthians 14 where the very things they're saying happens, happens.

That's not scripture. Okay? Yeah.

So here's something. So my, my, um, I guess my first thought with that is, I'm sorry? I said, I'll give you two things to think about. Okay. Oh, sorry. I didn't hear you. My bad.

Oh no, no problem at all. This is what it says in 1 Corinthians 1 7 that you are not lacking in any gift. And the word gift is charisma or actually literally charismatic, but it's for the Greek word charismatic gift. You're not lacking any charisma while you're waiting for the return of Christ.

The church is not to lack any charismatic gift. And we'll go to one more verse after the break. I'll tell you what it says and then we'll give you questions. Okay.

I actually have to go, but then listen and I'll tell you what it is after the break. Okay. Right.

Yes. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right folks, before we get to the call, I just want to say about the charismatic gifts. A lot of people don't understand that charisma is a gifting that is moved by the power of God and occurs by God's power.

There are pneumatikas in Greek, which are different kinds of gifts. And there are gifts that even, well, that, that are not charismatic oriented. For example, the gift of helps and administrations and things like this. But the charismatic gifts are by the power of God. Now here's an interesting verse for those who say that charismatic gifts are gone.

They don't exist anymore. If they say that Romans 6 23 is really important because the word gift here in this verse is the word charisma. It's charismatic gift for the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus, our Lord.

If all the charismatic gifts have ceased and there's no salvation. So what they'll do is they'll say, well, it's the sign gifts that have ceased. So then what they do is they separate the sign gifts from other kinds of charismatic stuff that God does.

And then they say just a sign gifts are gone. If that's the case, then why does Paul, the apostle say to the church that you're not to lack any charisma while you're waiting for the return of Christ. And so I definitely believe in the continuation of all the charismatic gifts.

Absolutely. I also believe that they are misused greatly in a lot of Pentecostal churches. It's just fake. And they think it's godly when it's not. I'm not saying all of it is or is not. It's just I'm going to be careful and judge all things by scripture. And one of the dangers of moving the charismatic gifts is that people then sometimes, not all, but they have a tendency, some people do, to start judging spirituality by the movement of the Spirit of God upon them. And then the major effort and major focus of their life is the Holy Spirit instead of the person of Jesus. And then that's wrong. Because the Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus, John 15, 26, 14, 26.

And this is what we're supposed to be doing. And the charismatic gifts are never to be sought in and of themselves apart from Christ and using them for the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ, the edification of the body. And in line of that, I would say you should read and study 1 Corinthians 14 because it talks about the charismatic gifts and how they're to be used and what reason they're for. And few people that I've ever talked to who affirm the charismatic gifts even know about this issue of how they're to be used and what they're for.

And I always recommend 1 Corinthians 14 for those people to study and then submit all charismatic stuff to what the Word of God says. Let's get to Frank from Arizona. Hey, Frank, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you.

I just want to tell you I appreciate your service that you provide for us. And I've got a question, but first I want to clarify what I believe on the Incarnation. That Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb. He was born, I take it a normal birth, a normal human birth, right?

Yep. And then the last we heard, I think, or the first thing we heard of him after that was him being in the temple at 12 or 14 years old. Luke chapter 2, yep. And then of course we didn't hear about his remains until, what, he was 30, I think?

Right. When he was baptized, because according to the Old Testament law, in order to enter into the priesthood, you had to be baptized and also in order to be in the priesthood, you had to be 30 years of age or older. So he's fulfilling the Old Testament law. That's why he was baptized to be a priest after the Order of Melchizedek. Okay.

Okay. Okay, that brings me to my question, and it's actually on the pre-incarnation that's talked about. Like, it's said that he was in Nebuchadnezzar's apartment with the other three, and they claimed that was Christ. And I think it was you that stated that he appeared to Abraham.

Yeah, and Adam and Eve in the garden, yeah. And my question is, if he wasn't born as a human, how could he be there at that time? So the doctrine of the Trinity says that there are three persons in the one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son is also called the Word. So the correct teaching of the nature of God is that the Trinitarian being is the one eternal being who is God. There's not three parts but one substance, the divine essence and nature. We perceive this one being of God through three simultaneous and distinct persons.

We use the word person to designate thinking, awareness of others, having wills, can love, can hate, and things like that. And so we see this manifestation in the Bible, and I teach on this every now and then. All right, so what we have in the garden of Adam and Eve, we have a manifestation of God walking with Adam and Eve. Now, Jesus says in John 6, 46 that no one has ever seen the Father. So it could not be the Father who was walking in the garden. And the Holy Spirit typically appears in flame or wind, something like that. So that's how he appears.

So we're going to say, no, it wasn't him. So then what we would say is that the pre-incarnate Christ is the one who manifested. It was not an incarnation. A manifestation is a temporary appearance in human form. An incarnation is a permanent appearance in human form. But the manifestation can take human form, but we don't know if there was actually stomach in that manifestation or eyeballs or how it would work.

We don't know. We don't know the internal makeup because the Bible doesn't say. But we do know that in the incarnation where the nature of the second version of the Trinity joined with human nature, we call this the hypostatic union. Then we know, of course, Jesus had stomach and bowels and lungs and things like that, because that's the incarnation. But the manifestation or the appearance of God is just simply that. We're not told exactly what that is constituted of, and it's a temporary appearance, but not an incarnation.

Okay. Okay, so it's mainly a manifestation, not a pre-incarnate. Right, because by definition to incarnate means to become flesh in a permanent sense. And this could only be done through birth, because if he's going to be a real human, then by definition he's got to be conceived and be born. And so that's what the incarnation is, so that he really was and still is fully human. So when we would say that he appeared in the garden, let's say, as a human being, let's say he did.

The Bible doesn't say he does or doesn't. I'm just being vague here on purpose. But let's just say for this example he did. Well then, excuse me, then it doesn't mean that he was anything other than taking the appearance of just a look like it. It's all it was.

It just appeared to be it, and that's it. Okay, that makes sense. Now, that was troubling me for probably a while. I couldn't understand that, but I think you clarified it for me.

Just remember this. An incarnation is a permanent movement where the second person of the Trinity added human nature and became human. And so the human appearance was actually, by nature, actually human. But the pre-incarnate manifestation doesn't necessarily mean it was actually human. It could just be a physical appearance like a shell.

There's nothing inside that physical appearance. It could have been that. We don't know.

There wouldn't have been anything logically that would prevent that. And so it's just a manifestation, an appearance, which is different than incarnation. Even if it was a manifestation, it was Christ, right? Yes, it was Christ, the pre-incarnate Christ appearing. And this is why I will say to people in the Old Testament when we see God like that, it's the pre-incarnate Christ.

That's what I say. And some people will say it was a pre-incarnate Jesus. Well, that's not technically correct, because Jesus did not come into existence until about 2,000 years ago.

Oh, now that makes more sense, by the way. Because Jesus, by definition, is the one person with two distinct natures. Well, that incarnation with two distinct natures there did not occur until 2,000 years ago. So the incarnation, we have the person of Christ with two natures. But the pre-incarnate Christ was one nature, the divine nature.

And that's all. It was not an incarnation, so there's only one nature in that who could take a human appearance. Just as angels could appear to be human, but doesn't mean they have a human nature. They're just appearing that way.

But they're still angels by nature. I see. Okay. I see.

Okay. I have another question, but I'll call back again in order to get people trying to call in to you. We've got one person waiting.

How about this, if you want, I can put you on hold, get to the other caller and then come back to you if you want. Do you want to do that? All right, if that works.

Okay, we'll do that. And folks, we have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. Here's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show, everybody. Let's get to Robert from North Carolina. Robert, you're on the air. Hey, Matt. Hey. I just wanted to tell you, I really appreciate and God bless you for your ministry. Praise God. Oh, man. That's good.

Okay. I'm married, you had a caller about a week ago. Remember a new convert, Church of Christ? His question was about baptism. He seemed to have it in his mind that the Church of Christ teaches that the baptism, he didn't know, but he thought, does baptism save you?

And you remember that? Oh, yeah, we get these kind of conversations a lot in the Church of Christ as a cult. Yeah, it's a false church. Well, I was made a Christian from atheist to Christian after many study with a Church of Christ in the mountains of North Carolina, a certain congregation, and I went through a lot, you know, months of instruction and questions until before I believed. And even though it was so long ago, I still remember what frame of mind and what I understood at the time was with me it was totally, you know, believing in God was the main thing. And after that, after I, you know, got over that and fully believed, then there was a process of, you know, saying out loud about believing in Jesus Christ and what he came down here to earth to do and saved by the blood of Christ and in faith in Jesus Christ. And that baptism to me was just another part of the process. It was an outward show of, you know, dying to your old self and then raising out of the water a new being that I didn't understand it is the safe salvation thing.

It was just part of the process. Okay, so let me offer it some corrections or I'm not sure if you're understanding or if I'm understanding you properly. Water baptism is not necessary for salvation. Water baptism is not the thing that makes us a Christian, period.

We are justified, that means declared legally righteous before God by faith alone in Christ alone. The Bible clearly, clearly teaches this in such verses as Romans 3 28 or Romans 4 5, Romans 5 1, Galatians 2 16, 2 21. It very clearly teaches that faith alone in Christ alone is what saves. Now in Galatians chapter 3 and Galatians chapter 5, Paul the Apostle is writing in rebuke against the Judaizers who wanted to do one thing, just one single thing in order to make their salvation sure and that was to get circumcised. And so Paul said that if you do this you've been severed, in order to pun, circumcision severed, you've been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the by the law.

So even though they were believing that you're justified by faith they were only adding a single ceremony to the process in order to demonstrate their faithfulness to God and that by that process with their faith they're therefore saved and Paul says you've been severed from Christ, you've fallen from grace, he's condemning them, he's condemning them. And what we're gonna find here, Romans 4 11 where it talks about says that Abraham received the sign of circumcision a seal of the righteousness of the faith which which he had while uncircumcised. So circumcision was a seal of the righteousness of the faith he had. So it's circumcision, a sign, a seal, a manifestation of that. So what happens a lot of people they get this wrong, they think that baptism is what saves you and I know about 1st Peter 3 21 baptism now saves you, we can get to that, but it says here in Colossians 2 11 and 12 and in him you are circumcised with a circumcision made without hands in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ having been buried with him in baptism. So baptism is called the circumcision of Christ but circumcision is seen as a seal. So if the circumcision of Christ which is baptism the original circumcision is a seal of the faith, baptism is a seal of the faith.

It's not the thing that saves you. So when we go to 1st Peter 3 21, I'm doing this quickly, I gotta make sure people understand this because I'll be done here in just a few seconds. 1st Peter 3 21 says corresponding to that baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Corresponding to what? The previous verse talks about Noah getting into the ark with his family and they were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that baptism saves you.

Corresponding to what? It wasn't the water that saved Noah, it was the ark. The water was a means of destruction and so corresponding to the ark baptism saves you which is a play on words because you enter into baptism you enter into the ark and but that's not what justified him before God, it's what saved him in the act of his obedience before God in a different sense.

I could get into it more but I won't. I had to say that quickly so I want to make sure. I was never instructed or believed that baptism was what saved you. You know you know that you know you talked about Acts 2 38 that the people that heard you know the word from the Apostles at that point they heard and when they said oh what must we do they there they were saved they had they they had the faith they were saved when they showed oh Lord what must we do it and then they said then they were told to repent and be baptized so they were there say this is my understanding is that they were saved and then but then they are also told to repent and be baptized.

Right, for the forgiveness of your sins. I mean the baptism seemed to have followed yeah yeah baptism followed there and then you were to see the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of the Holy Spirit is also mentioned in Acts 10 44 through 48 where they speak in tongues that's that's what the gift of the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of the charismatic gifts and they have this before they get baptized and so in Acts 10 they received the gift of the Holy Spirit before baptism and Acts 2 they received the gift of the Holy Spirit after baptism so Acts 2 38 is not a formula for salvation for that reason and also Acts 2 38 does not contain the word faith in it it's a covenantal aspect and people don't understand a lot of theology in these areas like the Church of Christ. Oh well my understanding has always been correct I think you may have been talking to a lot of people who got it were mistaken about the importance of baptism. It's important absolutely. I mean it's important but it's not what saves you.

That's correct. Yeah our faith in Christ. My understanding was correct I think even even if even if that if you say the Church of Christ improperly teaches people about salvation I don't think I had the wrong thing in my head about about the whole thing.

Well you know I say this frequently that Roman Catholicism official Roman Catholicism is apostate it's Antichrist theology you cannot be saved believing in official Roman Catholic theology but it doesn't mean that there aren't people who are actually saved in the Roman Catholic Church you know people could be saved in the Church of Christ because they're not understanding they're not putting their trust and faith in a ceremony but they're putting it in Christ they don't have full understanding so it's certain. Exactly yeah exactly yeah you were exactly right. Well I think thank you I'm glad we got this you know figured out.

That is straight down. Praise God. All right buddy. All right praise God and I and that ministry you have with atheists online is wonderful I'm glad you do that that's very important and I personally don't like the internet I don't participate in internet at all in any way not even a smartphone. I've been on the internet since its inception. I love it. Okay well God bless you Matt and may many people be brought to Christ because of you. Through this ministry by God's grace amen amen yeah amen all right take care now you too all right that was a good call I like that let's get back to Frank from Arizona who's gone and what I mentioned about Mary at the beginning of the show I think I'm gonna just jump in because we've got no callers waiting and I want to just read some of this stuff about Mary out of Catholicism and this is because this is the special week of devotion to Mary in Roman Catholic calendar events the Roman Catholic Church teaches things about Mary that are absolutely without a doubt not found in the Bible they add so much in regard to Mary that it is is it you wonder where do they get this what they'll say is they get it through sacred tradition and that sacred tradition is equal to scripture and they're the ones who have sacred tradition so they can tell you what was really taught about Mary it's just but it's pathetic sorry of this so they say that Mary's the all-holy one and I can read all the references but I'm not going to because we're low on time I want to read you what they say they call her the all-holy ones they say she is full of grace that she was not subject to corruption which which means she couldn't even die and that some teach that she was ascended and raised into heaven by God like Jesus was she's called the second to Eve or the second Eve I should say there is devotion to Mary they even entrust America Catholics are told to entrust their cares to Mary they ask they pray to Mary and ask Mary to pray for them instead of going to Jesus they go to Mary they pray to Mary they say that Mary in prayer is the epitome of the gospel so praying to Mary is epitome of the gospel no it's not I actually have a quote from Vatican Council to page 420 in a book that says that Mary was worshipped and the word is worshipped I love this when I say this every down into Catholics and care Catholic catechism paragraph 972 after speaking of the church her origin mission and destiny we can find no better way to conclude them by looking to Mary so that means there's that looking to Jesus in regard to the church the church's origin the mission of the church a destiny of the church it's better to look to Mary than to Jesus that's what it says there's no better way to conclude in a look to Mary this is idolatry people are told to entrust themselves to Mary's prayer Mary sits at the right hand of Christ Mary is second only to Jesus no man goes to Christ but through Mary Mary was taken into heaven through Mary the Holy Spirit brings the objects of God's love the knot of Eve's disobedience was untied by Mary's obedience she's called the advocate the helper the media tricks she's the mother of the members of Christ she was preserved from original sin she is the queen over all things Mary brings us the gifts of eternal life Mary is the advocate Mary helped make atonement for the sins of people Mary crushed the head of the serpent Mary delivers souls from death Mary brings the gifts of eternal salvation Mary's preparing a home for you Mary hears your prayers now these are all idolatrous heresies and it's unfortunate that the Roman Catholic Church would elevate her to the level of a goddess because that's what they're teaching about her they don't call her a goddess but they it's functionally she is she could hear millions of prayers all over the world simultaneously spoken and thought in different languages all the same time and understand them and answer them that's the actual attribution of God himself given to a creature the Roman Catholic Church is in dire need of repentance may the Lord bless you by his grace back on there tomorrow we'll talk to them