Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick Show. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live!

For answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome to the show.

Matt Slick Live. I'm your host Matt Slick. If you're a newbie, if you want to give me a call, we talk about theology, we talk about the Bible, we talk about aliens, we talk about the occult, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, Roman Catholicism. We talk about all kinds of stuff. If you've got Bible questions, you've got questions like that related to stuff like that, all you gotta do is give me a call.

Five open lines. 877-207-2276. The last four digits spell C-A-R-M on your phone, karm.org, Christian Apologetics Research Ministry.

All right, let's see, a little bit of homekeeping here. So tomorrow we're going to have on the air Luke Wayne. He's on staff at Karm and he's written a lot of information on the King James only issue and so we'll have him on. If you have questions about the King James, you want to talk about that, you want to know what it's about, he'll be on the air.

We have the plan for the first half hour of the show and if there's a lot of callers coming in with a topic, then what we'll do is we'll continue and we'll just see how it goes because it's kind of a narrow topic so we don't know how it's going to work. But at any rate, nevertheless, he'll be on, he's a good guy. He's been working with us for several years now full time with Karm. He's a great guy, man of honor, a good respectful man and he insulted me finally after all these years, he took a shot at me. It was really good and I laughed and it was a good one. And let's see, he said, because our church is growing and stuff like that. I said, hey, can we go down there sometime, you know, and I can talk. And he was saying how the church is growing and they're trying to deal with the issue of the growth. It's kind of a little bit of a problem.

They're going to get a better building or different schedules and the whole bit. He says, or we could just have you down here and speak mad and that way it'll really stop the growth. He totally got me. So I was loving that when I started laughing. That was good.

Oh yeah. Hey, look, we have some schools. If you're interested in checking them out, all you have to do is go to karm.org forward slash schools or to schools.karm.org. But anyway, on the right hand side of any page, you'll see the issue for the schools.

You can check them out. We charge for them. But if you want them, you can't afford them. Just email us and say you can't afford them, but you want them and we give them to you for free. We do use them to help pay the bills and pay the missionaries and things like that. So just giving you that a bit of information.

We have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Also, we're going to be doing a matching funds drive at the end of the year and we don't have the exact dates.

We're going to be not working out yet, but I just talked to the guy who helps us out with that once a year or sometimes twice a year. And matching funds drive, he's definitely interested in helping out. So what will happen, and we'll give you the dates of when it's going to occur, but what will happen is if you donate $5, it becomes $10.

Whatever you give $100, another $100 will be matched and it really does help us a lot. So we'll give you more information about that later. There is one more thing and I can't remember what it is. I hate it when I do that, but that's just how it is. Maybe you know about that kind of thing. You know, like you send yourself into a room and you stand and look at a wall. Why am I in here?

Yeah, it does happen. Hey, four open lines. Give me a call, 877-207-2276 to get to John from Canada.

John, welcome. You are on the air. How are you doing? Doing all right. Hanging in there.

What do you got? I have a question about epistemology. Okay. I can barely hear you.

You're going to do epistemology with the study of knowing and knowledge. So, sure. You got a question?

Okay, go ahead. How can you know that God exists? You know God exists by looking at three things. One is creation. Creation speaks of his greatness, the fact of life, information in life, the majesty of the universe, etc. Also in the special revelation of the Bible, and it is his self-revelation to us. And then also in the person of Jesus Christ who fulfilled prophecy, died on the cross, rose from the dead three days later.

And so just by looking at these, then we know that God exists. No problem. Okay. Are you there? Hello. Can you hear me? Yes.

Barely. I'm sorry, man. I just want to ask about your glasses. Okay. I can't hear you, buddy. You got to speak up.

If you're walking around, if you're driving or whatever, the connection is not very good. So why don't you ask your question again? I was wondering if your glasses are rose-royed. If my glasses are what?

Rose-royed. Okay. So are you an atheist? Are you an atheist? I'm a Christian.

I'm a Christian, but I'm questioning. You're asking about my reading glasses? Yeah. Okay. So why don't you have a serious question? Okay. You're not making any sense.

A lot of times trolls and griefers come on and they pretend to be Christians and they're not and they try and give us a hard time. So I don't know what your situation is. Well, I'm just wondering about the nature.

Nature of what? Of your glasses. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what. What we're going to do is move along and, you know, he's not making any sense. It sounds like he's doing something, but who knows? We have five open lines if you want to give me a call, folks.

877-207-2276. Five open lines. He's talking about epistemology, which is the issue of knowledge and the study of knowing. How do you know something? I do a lot of discussions with a lot of atheists and over the years, they want to know. What they try and do is actually is they try and figure out a way to confuse someone so that you can't know anything for sure and therefore Christianity can't be known to be true. And why do you believe it?

You don't have any evidence. They work very hard to work against God. But let me just tell you something. Unless you presuppose in a worldview, unless you presuppose a Christian God, nothing makes sense. If you don't have the Christian God as the precondition for intelligibility, our existence, morality, nothing can make sense. And it's a challenge I offered.

If people want to call me up and talk about it, that's fine. If you're an atheist, your worldview doesn't make any sense. If you're a deist or a theist, it doesn't make any sense. If you're a Muslim, it'll be self-refuting, ultimately. The New Age movement, all this stuff, polytheism, Mormonism, all these philosophies of man are self-refuting, ultimately.

It doesn't take much to be able to discern that, but it does take a little bit of practice sometimes to be able to teach it. So, you know, the only way to know anything for sure is if the infinitely knowledgeable God reveals it to you. That's what the Bible says. If God, who knows all things, tells you something, then you can know it's for sure.

So, for example, Jesus said in John 16, 14 and 6, excuse me, on the way to truth and life, nobody comes to the Father but by me. That's an absolute true statement. And we know it's an absolute true statement because Jesus, God in flesh, who knows all things, said so. Therefore, we can have absolute knowledge. The only way to justify absolute knowledge is to presuppose the Christian Trinitarian God, who then reveals it to us. And we can find that in the revealed Word of God, in the Scriptures, and things like that. So, that's some of the stuff we'll argue about.

We'll work on particulars with a lot of atheists and philosophers who like to argue ad infinitum ad nauseum. Let's get to Nick from Utah. Nick, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How's it going? It's going. It's going, man. What do you got, buddy? Perfect.

Hey, Mike. So, my question was just in a kind of a follow-up. You had a caller from, I think, the West Jordan area called in last week about lifeline and the female deacons. So, I was just curious because I was looking through 1 Timothy and all that and looking at the Greek words about what you were saying.

But I think it's in, is it in 11 or 12, there's a usage where it could be used. It seems like the way that it's using the plural, but the Greek, I forget what it is, but it says that like women or the wives of deacons. So, I'm just wondering if people like that pastor try to use that syntax to maybe justify their position on that. I mean, if you look at the whole thing in context, obviously the conclusion is for the office of the male, not for the female.

So, I just wondering if you ever had a follow-up with them and if that was a possibility and maybe they get hung up on the other usage. Well, what I have found over the years is that when someone has their mind made up about something and I show them what the Bible actually says, they don't recant. They don't recant.

Because they have, in my opinion, I'm not saying about this guy, but I'm just saying generically across the board. And I know the guy. I know the pastor.

We went to Israel together. He's a great guy. But I've seen a lot of cases over the years that, hey, this is what it says right here.

And they go, well, that's just your opinion. No, I'm just reading it to you. Like for example, deacons must be husbands of only one wife. How does a woman fit that bill? 1 Timothy 3.12. In the Greek, it says deacons, which is the ekonoi, which is the masculine plural form, must be husbands of one wife. And so what he's saying there is that the deacons are going to be husbands of one wife.

That's it. So when I've shown people things like this, I've been met with, you know, particularly with the context of elders, to be husbands of one wife, manage their household well. I've been met with all kinds of resistance. No, that's just your opinion.

No, I'm reading it to you. And they'll say, well, we just have a difference. I say, look, this is what it says. You're going against the word of God. I say, you're not qualified to be a pastor.

You're not qualified to be an elder. And I tell them. And they get offended.

I don't care if they get offended. It's if it says what it says and they don't go with what it says, then they're not qualified to represent the word of God. Right.

Period. So, you know, I would tell him, I would tell anybody who holds the idea that women could be deacons, I'd say, go to the word of God. Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.

Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, good managers for their children, who serve her deacon. That's what it says. So that's what it's supposed to be. Yeah.

And as I studied it even further and looked at the Greek, it's pretty obvious. That's what Paul was getting at. So yeah.

Yes, we do have time for more, but let me say three verses later in verse 15, Paul says, in case I'm delayed, I write so that you know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God. He is giving specific instruction on how the household, the church is supposed to work. That's it. Right. And so that's kind of like the federal headship type thing.

Right. So I would say that if anybody's listening, you have a female deacon and you have female elders, you need to repent. They need to be removed from those positions. They need to get biblical in those positions. And if people don't like it, just say, Oh, well, this is what the word of God says. If people leave the church because of it, then let them leave.

Let them leave. Your job is to preach and teach the truth of God's word. And if you want to debate me on it, you want to have a little discussion on it, please call me up.

You do it at the office. We don't do it on the air, but we can go through things and we can discuss the Greek and discuss what it says, and we'll try and get you on the right page. Boy, that's arrogant, isn't it? Well, people call me arrogant.

They might say, Yeah, it's true. I'm arrogant. But what does the text say? Hold on, buddy. We'll be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the air with Nick from Utah. Hey, Nick.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how's it going?

It's going. All right. All right. So my other question just had to do with just with the law. I know that the moral law is like a universal thing and that we're in the new covenant. We're not under the law, but under grace. And I know that Jesus said that to love God and to love our neighbor sums up the law and the prophets. But I'm just wondering, oh shoot, how am I trying to say this? How best, I guess, to go about being obedient, right?

Like, I also want to be obedient to the Lord, but not under the sense that, well, God says to do this and I'm doing it because the law says to, and then just fall into the trap of, like, legalism or even just self-justification in that sense. I don't know if that is, that was explained very well. Well, let's try one more time with a question.

Sorry, okay. Yeah, so my question was, is how do we view the law under the new covenant? As a guide. So we're not under obligation to keep the law for justification, so we're not for justification, salvation. We see it as a guide. When we look at the Old Testament, for example, and the sacrificial procedures, well, we see it as a guide to point us to Christ, who fulfilled that aspect of the law. When we look at the judicial aspect, where people be executed for crimes, we look at that as a guide. How are we to implement that in the New Testament, in the present time?

These are questions to ask. The moral aspect of the law, of course, is based on the character of God. It says God does not change.

Malachi 3.6, he was 9.22. Then the moral law doesn't change, and we're obligated to keep it. But we don't keep the law in order to be saved, because Paul says in Romans 3.28, we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Well, Paul, Jesus summed up the law in Matthew 22, 37 through 40, when he said that the law was summarized in love God and love your neighbor. So if the law is summarized in love God and love your neighbor, and we're justified without keeping the law, then we don't have to love God and love our neighbor, and we're to be justified, because justification is by faith. So what comes from this then for us? Well, we know that justification is not by anything we do, whether it be loving God or loving our neighbor.

In other words, it's not by works. But what we do is because we're regenerate, we love God and we love our neighbor, because we're saved. So the law becomes a guide to us as a fence that keeps us on the right track, but we keep it, I like to say, accidentally. When you love God and love your neighbor, you accidentally keep the law. We don't have to do the sacrificial stuff.

We're not under theocratic system, so the judicial isn't in place. So if I'm loving you, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to be dishonest with you in any way. And so it's not where the Bible says, don't lie. If I'm going to love you, I'm not going to lie.

I'm not not lying, I'm just loving. And so it fulfills the law accidentally when you love God and love your neighbor. Right. Yeah, no, that's helpful, because it just seems like a temptation for me sometimes. That's probably just spiritual warfare. When they start just doing those things, because it's like, look, I want to obey the Lord because I love him, so I don't want to do this. And then it's just like this nagging war between my flesh and the spirit being like, oh, you're just seeking to be justified and all this stuff. So I just, what you said is pretty much what I was thinking already, so it's just good to hear some clarity and justification, I guess, and knowing I'm thinking the right thing. Well, you know, you remind me of the struggle that we all have.

If you want to serve God, you know the truth is, well, your heart is still bound by a lot of sin, and there are things that we struggle with. And that's just life. Right.

It is. All right. Well, it's good talking to you, Matt. Be praying for us. I'm just meeting Luke down here at the Planned Parenthood in West Valley, so we're going to do some outreach.

Pray that the Lord would move. Yeah, I want to get down there sometime and spend a few days down there and get a camera and go out there with you guys, do that kind of stuff. Luke and I were talking about it. So I may come down in a month or two or three or four, whatever, and just do some filming and go to Temple Square is being cordoned off. We can go to the some evangelism and some documenting of the stuff, because now that Manti is gone, did you ever go to Manti? I didn't, and I actually was planning on going that last year, and me and my wife just had some things come up, so I wasn't able to go. And I was just like, no, but it's just the Lord just didn't have me go out there, so.

Oh, well. But I've been doing the like Temple Square and then the Provo with those guys since Temple Square shut down, and that's been really good. So, yeah, good stuff. Yeah, you guys are great because Luke's told me about a group of you guys who are doing things, I guess you're including the group, and you don't have to go out there to witness and share the faith, and it needs to be documented, recorded, and the whole bit. So, yeah.

Well, yeah, if you come down, it'd definitely be good to meet you, and maybe we can have a meal and whatnot, and yeah, I don't know if you can pay for Andrew's lunch somehow, but. Yeah, you're in on that one, too, yep. Yeah, I listen to Paul Jetics Live a lot and calling a lot there, and they've been really helpful to me, your ministry and theirs, and so that joke always comes up.

It does, and it started with Bill McKeever, if you know who Bill is, years ago. So it's been a running joke at my expense, and it's just how it's been going, so that's what it is. So, all right, Nick, we got blood, buddy. Oh, how's you and your family doing? I know you guys were going through some, just the sickness and stuff that's going around, so I've been praying for you guys, just wanted to see how you guys are doing. Well, that's to say my wife needs a lot of prayer, and because she has one of the rarest connective tissue disorders in the world, and the side effects are multitude in this, and so let's just say there's a lot of pain sometimes, and et cetera, et cetera, and being married to me doesn't help.

So, yeah, it's the stupidest husband that comes up a lot, so, you know, that's what it is. All right, Matt. Well, God bless you. You take care.

I'll be praying for you guys. All right, man. Thanks a lot, Nick.

All right. Hey, folks, if you want to give me a call, three open lines, 877-207-2276. Levi from Raleigh, North Carolina. We lost him. Oh, no, we didn't. Oh, I did it again. Hey, Levi, call back, buddy. I hung up on you. I forgot to hang up on the first guy, and then when the buzz went, I hung up on Levi, so my bad. Levi, you got to call back. We'll get you back in line. Sorry about that, folks. You have four open lines, 877-207-2276.

Oh, I hate it when I do that. Mark from North Carolina, you're on the air. Hey, Matt.

It's Mark again. I'm about to talk to your call screener, and my question was going to be on the wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat a gob. While I was on hold, I thought of something even more important to me, and that's Ezekiel's temple. Okay.

Why does Ezekiel go into such detail? I don't know, but get a break. So, hold on, buddy. Okay. We'll get back to you after the break already. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show, everybody. We have three open lines if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. All right. We're back on the air.

Mark, you there? Yes. Okay. So, Ezekiel's temple.

What was your question about it? Well, I share the same view as you do when the Lord returns. It's over, and there's no literal thousand years. Where in the world does this Ezekiel's temple fit in?

One view is it'll be rebuilt, some say during the literal thousand year reign, if that view is correct. But it's huge. It's 500 cubits on each side, which is roughly 1,500 feet square.

And it's like 18 foot tall walls around it that are 18 feet thick, roughly, because a cubit, actually, it's 6 or 12 feet. And so, we really don't know. But at the very least, it is symbolic of the presence of God and represents God among his people.

And so, you know, I don't know. It's in Isaiah 42, 48, I believe it is, with that range. Yeah, the confusing part to me is that I don't see how it can be literal. And the reason I say that is because Christ was a sacrifice once and for all, but there's going to be animal sacrifices. Well, that's what the premillennial view holds that during the tribulation period, the temple will be rebuilt on the temple mount, which actually can be done.

But he discovered some archaeological evidence to show that the dome of the rock is in the court of the Gentiles. So the temple could be rebuilt without violation of the Muslim sensibilities, let's just say. And so, the sacrifice can proceed. They've got the ashes of the red heifer, and they are training priests right now. So the only thing that's not there is the temple. So some people think that during the tribulation period, the temple will be rebuilt. It'll be three and a half years of peace, and then the Antichrist will make himself known during that midpoint and just cause the sacrifices to cease, he'll go into the temple himself. So that could work in all millennialism as well, if you hold to a seven-year tribulation period preceding the return of Christ. So, you know, it's a tough one.

It's a tough one. Yeah, that's one of those that kind of puzzles me a lot of times. The wolf and the lamb lying together, is that spiritual work?

Well, I would say, hold on, oh boy, in the new heavens and new earth, I would think that we would see complete harmony in everything. The lion and the lamb, not the wolf, it's the lion, can lay down together. And I remember reading an article, there's actually a lion that's a vegetarian. Excuse me, I'm clearing my throat there.

And it's been documented, a complete vegetarian. I don't know how it works, but there it is. So who knows? I don't know.

Some of this eschatology stuff, there's like four or five views, and then you add the four or five views of another thing, and you've got 16 possibilities, but I just stick with the simple stuff. I'm on a meal, Christ is going to come back, and the wicked are taken first. That really shakes people up. But when I hang up, I'm going to be praying for your wife. I really hope she gets better. Sorry about that, but I just talked to her today about coming on the air. She does not want to come on the radio, but I do want her to come on the air, because I want her to talk about the difficulties she's facing in life, and how her faith has remained strong during all of it. She's a good woman, except for taste in men, but she's a great woman, and her faith for the Lord is unwavering. And I think that she needs to come on the air, and she has a great radio voice too, and she can come on the air and talk about it. I think it would minister to a lot of people. It really does. You'd be surprised how many people it could help.

A lot of people. That's why I'm going to say it again. If you want my wife to come on the air, then go to karm.org.

At the bottom of the website, you'll see the email address, and just email Mrs. Slick. You need to come on the air and talk about your relationship with God in light of your difficulties. And it needs to happen, okay? Thank you, Matt. You're welcome. Well, God bless. God bless. Okay. All right, folks. If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines.

All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. Dave from High Point, North Carolina, you're on the air. Hello, Mr. Slick. How are you? I'm fine, by God's grace. That's right.

What do you got? Good, good. Pleasure to speak with you this evening. I want to expand on something you mentioned just a little bit ago.

Okay. You were talking about deacons and elders, and one of the requirements to be a husband of one life. And I came in late on the conversation, so I assume it had to do with a woman filling the position.

And we're on the same page with that. But here's a couple of questions that have come up that I've heard over time. A husband of one wife, does that mean he has to be married currently? Could he be a single man and fill those positions?

That's a good question. Also, a question would be raised, what if he is a widower? He's a deacon and his wife dies.

No, he can't be a deacon anymore. So, what we conclude is that what Paul is doing is giving the normative requirements for offices to be held in the church. And they're to be male. And there's a reason for it theologically in federal headship and authority. There's a specific reason for it.

A lot of people miss the reason, but nevertheless. So, the general idea is that both the elders and the deacons and the bishops are to be men of one woman. And because it can say husband of one wife, but also it kind of leans towards the idea of a male of one woman, of one wife. So, they have to hold to the idea and the concept and the belief of monogamy. And so, normatively speaking, if a man is married and his wife dies, is he then disqualified?

No, we wouldn't say that. Because the admonition is for the male to hold the office and there's nothing in there. But if his wife dies and he can't hold, it doesn't say that. He's speaking normatively about what's to happen in the church. And that's it.

And also says- That's the way I take it as well. And also think about this, because a good manager of their children, and so the elders supposed to have children who believe. Children is plural. Well, what if you only have one child? Can't be an elder then, right?

Because you don't have children. So, we don't want to be too literal. But people might say, well, man, if you don't want to be literal, then why are you saying they have to be males? Because the word deacons is, in the Greek, diakonoi, which is the almacron iota ending, which is, by definition, the masculine plural.

Just as presbuteroi and episkopoi. These are all male endings. Because in Greek, you can have female, male, and neuter endings to nouns. And it is male. And then it says they must be husbands of one wife. Now, if someone were to say, well, the deacons, if it's already male, of course they're going to have to be husbands of one wife. Because it's talking about males. But if it's talking about males, why would it say you have to be husbands of one wife? Of course it's talking about males.

Because the males are the ones who hold the office, not the females. And so the males who hold have to hold to this position of having one wife. And then there's a question of, is it serial monogamy? What if your first wife dies? You're married to a second wife.

It's all legit. Well, now you're a husband of two wives, technically, right? No, that's not what's going on. What if you're presently married to two women?

Then you can't be an elder or a deacon. So this is, we've gone through all the iterations about this, but yeah. I'm sure. So by the same token, you mentioned widowed, would the same apply, I assume that it does, to someone who is divorced and remarried? Well, now we get into an issue of divorce, remarriage, because, and we've got a break coming up, so we're going to have to take a break here in a little bit.

We could keep talking about this because this is interesting. So what do you do about a divorced person? Can a divorced person be an elder, a pastor?

I would say yes, under the right circumstances. So what do you do if a man was divorced at age of 25, but he's an atheist until he was 30 and then became very born again and became a pastor at 40 years old? Well, he's divorced, but then we would say, but it was when he wasn't even a Christian and all things are new in Christ.

So that's an issue worth discussing. What if he's a Christian and let's just say his wife abandoned the faith, committed adultery, was unrepentant, and she divorced him. He's innocent. So should he be disqualified? I don't see that as being a legitimate disqualification. But what if he was the one in his Christian faith who went out on his wife and then later repented?

Well, I would say he's disqualified from being a pastor because in his faith he did that which was ungodly and he's not above repute anymore because the Bible says he's going to be above repute. So this is tough. I remember discussing this in seminary, these variations of issues and during the whole mix, he wanted to be gracious as well. So grace, I had to say all that quickly. Great break was coming up. Hold on.

Okay. We're going to talk about it. We'll get more questions after the break. Folks, we have four open lines. If you want to give me a call and we slow down after the break.

877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back everyone. Let's get back on the line here with Dave from High Point, North Carolina. You're on the air.

Hello again, Matt. Yeah. So there's other questions about this, but so you have another question?

I know, sir. You actually covered it well and I thank you so much for that. Just wanted to be sure I was answering it right when I hear those same questions.

Well, let's go over one more question. Can a single man be an elder or deacon? Now I get into something more interesting because it says the deacon must be and the elder must be husbands of one wife. In that culture, people were married very early in arranged marriages. It's just how it was. It was presumed that they would naturally be married.

That's just how it was. If you weren't married, what was wrong with you? You're just married by the age of 19 or 18 or 17 or 16. You're just married.

So this is why it's spoken of like that. It's just assumed. So let's say there's an elder and his wife dies at the age of 25 when he becomes single. Well, then is he disqualified?

We'd say no. So then being single doesn't automatically disqualify you from being in the office. We would say then that to hold that office, you have to at the very least be male. That's a given and at least hold to the position of monogamy, one wife and that's it.

You can't be married to more than one woman at a time. And that would be the general consensus of it. In seminary, we've discussed this at length and this is what we concluded.

It's what I concluded as well. It makes perfect sense. Okay. Very good.

It makes sense to me as well. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. Well, God bless. All right. God bless you, sir. You too.

All right. Let's get to Roberta from Utah. Roberta, welcome. You are on the air. Roberta, hello. Hi.

So you're on the air. Hi. You have a question? Hi, Matt. Hi. Hi.

Matt, I have a question for you. So I live in Palatista and I've been looking for a church to go to. But I did find one. It was a Baptist church. The only problem with that is that they required a membership. So I'm kind of confused about that, why we would need a membership to be a part of a church family.

Okay. Well, first of all, church membership is not in the Bible. It's not found in the Bible. There's nothing in the scriptures that says that an individual has to sign on the dotted line, go through classes, and then become an official member of a local body.

It just doesn't exist. So the requiring it of you is optional. And so if they say it's biblical, no, it's not biblical. But it's not anti-biblical either. So the thing is, why would they want to do this?

Well, there's good reasons. They said it was something that had to do with baptism. So if you haven't been baptized, and then if you baptized at another church, then they could use that as a form of a membership.

I'm not sure I follow that. Are they saying you had to be baptized? You had to be baptized, but they recognize the baptism in another church, right? Yeah. As long as it's not Mormon or Jehovah's Witness or whatever, right?

Okay. No, it's a church. It's a Baptist church. It's just faith, Baptist church. Yeah, but Baptist churches are starting to go south now.

They've been going. So some of them have. I'm not saying this one has, but if they require membership, that's something that you just have to decide if you're going to submit to. There's some advantages to it. One is you'll sign a document, basically. There's legal things to it, saying that if they offer church discipline to you, because let's say you're doing something really bad, they say you can't take communion, and then you get mad at them, you can't sue them because you've agreed to disciplinary action as a possibility should you stray. That's a good thing. It just sounds a little bit offbeat to me. I don't know. I count pictures or something like that.

You think that the doors would be open? Yeah, I have to offer correction. I was a member of the Presbyterian Church in Escondido, California because of the requirements in order to go into the ministry in the PCA. I had to be a standing member of a church, so I went through that. That's the only time I ever did it, and I did not like doing it then. I just don't like it.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem right, either, Matt. It's just kind of disappointing because with everything going on now, and then restrictions, of course, but it's like, gosh, where do you find a place to worship anymore that is even worse going? What you do is you go to CARM, and you look up the article, What to Look For in a Church.

Then you go through the Yellow Pages, or you look online, whatever, and you call up the churches, and you interview them over the phone. Do you affirm women pastors, women deacons? Do you affirm homosexuality?

They say, of course, we don't affirm those things. Great. What do you think of Kenneth Copeland and Joyce Meyer? Oh, they're great.

Click. Hey, Matt, now that I got you on the line, what do you think about the olive tree ministries? I know that they're good, and I know what they're doing is good.

I don't know. But I'm just kind of, you know the confusion with the rapture and all, so I do read. Sometimes what I do read, I don't believe that there's some type of rapture.

I know that we will be taken away. But when I read, there's so much out there. I guess God tells us to be careful. Yeah, I can't tell you about olive tree ministries. There's so many in the last week.

Yeah, I can't tell you about them because I just don't know what they teach, and I just haven't heard enough about them to be able to say. And it's just prophecy, the end-time rapture prophecy. If they don't believe in preacher rapture and stuff, that's fine. That's fine. Yeah. It's not against scripture or anything and stuff. Oh, we believe that the Lord Jesus... Oh, Jesus lived a sinless, perfect life. Good.

He rose bodily. That's good. Faith alone through no merit of our own. Good. Divine nature may partake of the divine nature in eternal life. Good. Baptized and true believers.

We believe that when the promise was believed. Okay. It looks pretty good. I'm scanning it, but there's statement of faith. Oh, they're premillennial. That's fine. It's within orthodoxy. Pre-trib rapture. So that's fine.

They're okay so far. Why does there have to be so many, Matt? I mean, I don't understand. So many different believers. One saying there's a rapture, one saying pre-trib, one saying... I don't understand why there's so many.

Because people have different opinions, that's all. On the CARM statement of faith, for example, we say that if you're all-mill, pre-mill, or post-mill, that's within orthodoxy. If you hold a pre-trib rapture, mid, or post-trib rapture, it's within orthodoxy. We recognize all of them as brothers and sisters. And we don't hold a position officially in CARM. You know, I'm all-mill, but I got people... In fact, I don't even know if everybody works with me is all-mill.

I don't care because it's not a dividing issue. Right, that's so true. So when people do statements of faith, they're saying their statement of faith, I think what they should do is when they write, you know, we believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, and say, yet we also recognize that brothers and sisters hold to post-trib rapture.

And we fellowship with them. That's a good thing to do. Yeah, that's true, Matt. I know that I don't want to get in a great big ordeal with that subject because I do know that God is returning. So that's a great thing we can all look forward to. But yeah, Matt, well, thank you so much. I just had that with... Because, you know, I just... I'm trying to find a church out here.

It seems difficult lately. Well, tell you what, Luke Wayne will be on the air tomorrow, and he lives down in the area. Call up and ask him what church he goes to. All right, because he's a good guy. His name is what was his name, Matt? Luke Wayne. He'll be on the air. He's on the CARM staff. He'll be discussing King James only stuff tomorrow. Okay.

And so you can call them people. All right. Matt said that you go to a church, what church do you go to? And I think it's in... You know where the car lots are off the 15 freeway? Off there, you know, not too far. It's like five miles north of IKEA. I think that's where the church is, in that range of an area. Oh, maybe out there towards Draper, Riverton, and all that area, I think.

Yeah, I don't know how far... I'm not really too sure, but yeah, Luke Wayne, right? Luke Wayne. He'll be on there tomorrow. Okay. Okay.

Well, I will definitely try to get on tomorrow. Thank you so much, Matt. You have a great day. You too. Thanks a lot. Okay.

All right. Let's get to Dave from Charlotte, North Carolina. Dave, welcome. You're on here. Hey, Matt.

Just real quick, man. Okay. I'm not trying to be too... I'm not trying to disrespect anyone really, but I put on the internet recently on my platform, just stating that a Christian could not be a homosexual, which I know is correct. Well, that's not technically... That's not true. Technically, it's not true.

Okay. Because it's like saying a Christian can't be lustful. Well, I'm sorry, Christians are lustful. Your lust doesn't mean you're a Christian or not. And you can have people who are homosexual and they're attracted to the same-sex people, but know that it's wrong and are rebelling against it. And so in that sense, yeah, they can be Christian. They're struggling. They've judged it as sin.

They're having troubles. And see, that's what I said. I said...

I'm sorry. Yeah, I said that. I said that I could see where a gay individual is repenting, but I just couldn't see that they're saying that them being gay is okay in the body of Christ. No. Yeah.

Practicing homosexuality? No, no, no, no, no. That's not acceptable. Okay.

That's what I'm getting to. Okay. Right. Okay. Okay.

I appreciate that, Matt. Okay. Sounds good, buddy. Okay. Thanks, man. Thanks.

All right. And look what the next caller's talking about. John from New Jersey, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

Fast, quick question. Not long drawn out. My cousin married a man. He did repent. He did. You know, he told me he repented.

So my question is... Of what? Of marrying a man. Oh, okay. You know, so he doesn't have the money. He told me to get a divorce. So is he in sin right now? Well, he has committed great sin. And if he's in repentance, then the effect of his sin is continuing and he needs to rectify that. And to get a divorce is in a sense legitimizing the marriage in the first place. So that's a really tough one.

I haven't thought about that. I would say he has to go to the elders of his church and talk about it and either declare that the marriage was never godly to begin with and not valid, but since the state might've recognized it might be a legal thing that he has to go through in order to have it absolved for legal reasons. So this is the nature of sin.

It creeps into different areas of our lives and it turns into a mess. So he needs to get involved with the elders of his church and talk about this. He might have to go through a legal divorce for legal reasons and confess before God that such a secularized union was never godly to begin with.

It was sinful rebellion against God. Right. He did tell me he did repent and ask for forgiveness. Good.

But he also said, I'm like, well, listen, I mean, okay, at least you did that, but he doesn't, like I said, he don't have the money for a lawyer to get divorced. So... Well, he's got to pray. Is he in sin? Yeah. He's got to go to the elders.

Well, no, I wouldn't say he's in sin. That's a tough one. Um, I have to call back another time to talk more about that.

I got to think about that. All right, buddy. All right. We're out of time. All right, man.

Sorry about that. Hey, folks, boy, that's a good, good question. Good issue, yeah. Well, you know what? We're out of time. May the Lord bless you by his grace. We'll be back on there tomorrow and hopefully we'll talk to you then. Remember, Luke Wayne tomorrow, King James only stuff.