Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live. Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone.

Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick live. If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines. 877-207-2276.

And the last four digits, spell C-A-R-M on your dial, on your phone. And so all you got to do is give me a call. We talk about all kinds of stuff here. Hopefully, it'll get interesting. Hopefully, also, some of the people who called yesterday will follow up, and we can have conversations today. Let's see. I got a Patreon video to do today, and I think it's about it. What else we got going?

That's about it. Yeah, the calls are coming in good. So let's just jump on the lines, and let's get to Erin from Wisconsin. Erin, welcome. You're on the air. Hello.

I called you yesterday. Good. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Uh-huh. Wonderful. Okay, well, I called you yesterday, and we discussed Catholicism versus the Bible, if you recall, and you requested me to read three chapters of Romans and get back to you, which I did, and so here I am. Good. Okay, good.

And did you see that Romans chapters three, four, and five contradicts what Catholicism teaches? Yes, sir. Doesn't it depend on how you interpret it, sir? Oh, I guess you're correct that I am seven feet tall. Yeah, that's right. I didn't say that.

Well, yeah, okay, no, but I don't like basketball. Could you kindly tell me the point you're trying to make, please? If it's all up to interpretation, I can make whatever you say, whatever I want it to say. It's not just an issue of interpretation of Scripture, of God's Word. It says what it says. Okay. See, what will happen is the Roman Catholic Church is going to tell you that it has the authority from God, and it can tell you what the Word of God means, and we don't have the authority and all this idiocy that they teach.

So if I were to go to John 11 35 where it says Jesus wept because Lazarus died and Jesus went there to the grave, and he was dead, and he wept, I'm going to interpret that to mean that Jesus wept, that he cried. I don't need authority to say that. You don't need authority. Whenever we have authority that tells us this is our authority, really, where'd you get this? You have to have authority to read the Word of God and understand it.

Where'd you get authority? Furthermore, the Roman Catholic Church has only interpreted, so to speak, infallibly 11 verses in 2,000 years of its claimed existence. That's one verse every 200 years.

It's not doing very well. It's missing 99.98% of the Scriptures. So when the Bible says, Romans 3 28, we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Well, if it's just a matter of interpretation, well, then I'm going to interpret it to mean the Roman Catholic Church is in the service of the devil. And if you want to interpret it differently, then who's correct? If it's just a interpretation.

What does it say? Paul says, we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Apart. So, would you agree that a person is justified by faith without the works of the law? Would you? Are you there?

I'm here. I just read Romans 3 28. Well, I would have to say that whatever the Bible says is inspired. Yes, and that's what it says, that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. So, the works of the law are always justified by faith. Justified by faith apart from the works of the law. So, the works of the law are all the do's and don'ts of moral behavior, including loving God, loving your neighbor, everything. So, we're justified by faith without the works of the law, right?

Yep. And the Roman Catholic Church says that that's not true. The Roman Catholic Church says you're, in paragraph 2068, it says that you obtain salvation through faith, baptisms, and the observance of the commandments. The commandments are part of the law. In paragraph 2070, 2036, it says that you have to keep the natural laws necessary.

You've got to keep it. And that the Ten Commandments are an express representation of the natural law. That's what it says in paragraph 2070.

The authority, the magisterium, extends also to the precepts of the natural law. And that's paragraph 2036, it says that. Because their observance demanded by the Creator is necessary for salvation, paragraph 2036. And paragraph 2070 says that an express representation of the natural law is the Ten Commandments. So, now the Roman Catholic Church is saying you've got to keep the Ten Commandments in order to be saved. May that damnable heresy perish with that false church on the day of judgment. We cannot be justified by our faith in anything we do. And the reason is because everything that you do, everything that I do, is touched by sin. None of it is good enough before the infinitely holy God. And he has revealed his word, and his word clearly states that we're justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

The Roman Catholic Church contradicts that, therefore the Roman Catholic Church is a false church. Well, I appreciate your insight. Thank you for listening and answering my questions. So, are you going to become a Roman Catholic? Sir, I cannot tell you solidly either way.

I have much study left to do. Well, how about this? You go to CARM and read up the articles on Catholicism. Read up and see what it says. Go to my website, CARM.org, and read up on Roman Catholicism.

I've been studying it for years and years and years. You can get a book, if you want, online called The Gospel According to Rome by McCarthy. I'd recommend you get that book, because it's full of documentation of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church. I'm telling you, the Roman Catholic Church is not a Christian church.

It is a false church teaching a false gospel. It has substituted man's traditions for the truth of God's word. It says that you must keep the natural law because it's necessary for salvation, paragraph 2036 says. It's necessary.

When something's necessary, there's no exception. You have to keep the law. In paragraph 27, he says that the Ten Commandments are an expressed form of the natural law. So you've got to keep the commandments or to be saved. And then it'll tell you that when you sin, you lose some of the grace infused into you, and you have to go to their church for their sacraments to get grace re-infused into you. They're in control of your salvation. The Roman Catholic Church is a gigantic idol in its false traditions.

So if you are thinking about joining the Roman Catholic Church, what you're doing is thinking about adding your own works to the finished work of Christ and abandoning the gospel of Christ. And I don't want you to do that. You need Jesus. Well, yes indeed. Let me ask you.

I shall definitely check out your website. Okay. Let me ask you before you go, if you were to pray and ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins, Jesus, who's God in flesh died in the cross, rose from the dead, who said, ask him anything in his name and he'll do it. If you were to ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins, would he forgive you of all of your sins? Yes, I believe he would.

Yes. Then why do you need to go to the Roman Catholic priesthood where they pronounce forgiveness on you? And then you get grace infused in your soul via its sacraments so that you can become more righteous before God. It's either Jesus. Well, sir, if you want a real answer, there are two reasons why. One is because according to the earliest Christian writings we have, the patristic fathers, the Clementes of Alexandria, Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Justin Martyr are all visibly Catholic. Now they were writing within 50 years of the death of the apostles. No they're not.

And the second question is, okay, sir, okay, I see what you're saying. I've read Clementes. In my readings of them, yes sir, and so have I. And who's the earliest writings? Where's the earliest writings of the Christian church? I believe the earliest one is, is it the Gospel of Mark or John?

Very good. One of the Gospels at least. So the earliest writings are the New Testament documents.

That's where you have to look. Look, not to various church fathers who contradict each other. And secondly, sir, I am beginning to have grave doubts about whether sola scriptura really works as a paradigm.

Well, that's because you're not regenerate. That's because you don't believe in God's word. Look, God's word is the inspired word of God. I was at Christ as my savior when I was six years old, sir. Then why are you not turning to him?

Yes. Why are you looking to man's tradition in a false church and a false Gospel? Why are you going to the church fathers? Because I'd like to know more about the history of my faith. They did, they wrote, and they wrote 50 years after the Apostle John died. I'd like to know what they have to say. There's many of them are martyred for the cause of Christ. Yeah, and if you go to Carm and you look up the church fathers under the Christianity section, and you read the quotes by topic, you will find that they often contradicted each other on all kinds of topics.

Okay, well, I will certainly look at what you have to say on the topic, sir. If they contradict each other, how can you trust them to be true? Why don't you just go to God's word instead of man's tradition? Go to God's word. Why is it then that all the denominations interpret scripture differently? They don't. The Baptist church I was raised in interprets scripture differently from the Lutherans, who interpret it differently from the Mennonites.

Well, wait a second. If the whole church is working on everyone, how do you know who's right? Do you mean that they don't interpret any verse in the entire Bible the same?

All denominations interpret everything contradicting each other, always, everywhere. Is that what you're saying? No, sir, that's not what I said. You said the alternative differently.

Perhaps I should have been a little more rigorous. What I intended to say, and what I didn't say clearly enough, was that it depends diametrically opposite doctrines from the same Bible. Give me an example. Well, for instance, sir, the Lutherans believe that the Christ is actually present in the Eucharist. Not the way Catholics do. And both of them argue from the Bible. Yeah, not what the Catholics do. The Reformed people believe in limited atonement, the Baptists do not. Who has the Holy Spirit?

How shall I know? They both claim him. Here's an example of you not understanding what the truth of God's word is. There are essentials of the Christian faith, and then there's non-essentials. We are allowed to differ in the non-essentials. And Paul the Apostle tells us in Romans 14 that each man be fully convinced in his own mind. And he's talking about worship days and eating habits. If we're supposed to submit to a single authoritarian or magisterium, whatever tradition, whatever, why does Paul the Apostle say that it's okay to have differences of opinions?

You complain that denominations differ in their interpretation of some of the, what we call adiaphor, the non-essentials. Then you say, see, they can't be trusted. The Roman Catholic Church has contradicted itself numerous times over the years, so therefore it can't be trusted. Likewise, the church fathers have contradicted each other, therefore they can't be trusted.

It's not the interpretation. You need to go to the Word of God and you need to believe the Word of God. Because it is the devil who wants you to doubt God's word, and you can doubt it by saying, well, whose interpretation is false? In other words, did God really say? Your issue here is with the Word of God. And what you're trying to do is find a way to justify to joining a false church, because you want to be held to accountability by tradition and a religion instead of Christ himself. You need to repent and come to Christ.

There's our break. Talk to you later. Okay. Okay. Hey folks, we'll be right back after these messages.

Please stay tuned. There is a thin veil between our material world and the spiritual world. Dr. Michael Yousaf. Beyond that veil, there is a constant war taking place. Your enemy is trying to destroy you and your friends at the command of God, at the behest of God, they're trying to preserve you. Next time on Focus on the Family, Dr. Tony Evans explains what it means to have a kingdom marriage under God's authority and for his glory. He shares about maintaining oneness, the importance of having a servant's heart, and how to rebuild a marriage relationship that's been fractured. God's wisdom for your marriage on the next Focus on the Family.

Here's Dr. Robert Jeffress with today's Pathway Minute. Becoming a Christian is easy. Becoming a disciple is difficult. Becoming a Christian is free. It costs you nothing. Becoming a disciple is costly.

It costs you everything. How do you know if you're a disciple? Are you obeying all things that Jesus has commanded you, all things about your moral life, all things regarding how you handle your money? That's the test of whether or not you are a true disciple of Jesus Christ. To be a disciple means for you to live your life as Jesus would live your life if he were you. You're listening to Dr. Robert Jeffress, Bible teacher on Pathway to Victory.

For information and helpful resources, go to ptv.org. Here's Dr. Charles Stanley, Keeping Believers in Touch with God. Justification is an act of God whereby he declares a person guiltless. He declares a person acceptable. He declares a person vindicated from his past upon receiving Jesus Christ as his personal savior by faith. I didn't say he hadn't been guilty. He was guilty. But almighty God declares him not guilty. And the scripture says that you and I upon being justified by his grace, we receive the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

For help and hope from God's word, visit In Touch with Dr. Charles Stanley at InTouch.org. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Roberta, welcome back to the show. Let's get to Jason from Arizona. Jason, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. I tell you, I have so many questions for you. I find it a challenge to narrow it down to one. But I wish I could pick your brain like on a Saturday, just all day.

Just talk to you and just take notes. But as far as today goes, I wanted to ask you about Galatians 1.8. You know, when Paul said, If any man preaches any other gospel to you other than what I preached, which Paul preached the gospel of the grace of God, even if an angel from heaven comes, let him be accursed. And I started thinking about this, Matt, that most denominations in the world are not teaching the gospel of the grace of God. They're teaching works righteousness. And I started thinking, Paul the apostle is saying, Let these people be accursed.

And let me brief. I'm a reformed believer now, Matt. But in my youth, I was exposed to Pentecostal holiness. And we were, every day, we thought we lost our salvation from impure thoughts. And if you lost your temper, you're doomed to hell.

And it was so horrible, Matt. And so I'm realizing I was taught, I was not taught what Paul taught the gospel of the grace of God. And so I just wanted to pick your brain on this. The church is, most of the church is not teaching this, what Paul preached. You know, it's really interesting that you're saying this, because it's been on my mind a lot lately, the issue of what is the Christian church supposed to be teaching and what's going on in churches. And I was imagining, I do thought experiments. And that's how I teach myself to evangelize, to think.

Sometimes I let my mind go. And I was wondering about being in a Bible study, a group of people where this issue comes up, this very issue of what is the church teaching? Is that particular church teaching the truth? And, you know, I've thought about this over the years and lately, even more and more.

You know, I can imagine going into a Bible study and just hanging out and then discovering the heresies being taught in the Bible study. And I've seen them happen. And I'm saying, well, that's not exactly correct.

And how would they respond to correction? And mostly people don't respond very well. Well, when Paul said, when I looked it up, you know, when you be accursed, I mean, this is so serious, what Paul is saying.

Like, you know, let him be accursed. I mean, it means doomed to hell, right? I mean, and people walk around and just, I think to myself, they're ignorantly doing it, most of them. But everyone's preaching. You know, your last call are talking about the Catholic Church. They're teaching works righteousness. The Pentecostal holiness people, they're teaching works righteousness. The Seventh-day Adventists and on and on.

You know more than me. You're the Bible teacher. But it's only the Reformed people that I know of, this little tiny sliver of Christendom that's telling you, hey, salvation is a free gift. And it's by grace, you can't earn it. Well, it's not only the Reformed camp, but it reminds me, I'm going to step on some toes, but when we want people to answer emails for us on CARM and we ask and I find out, if they're Reformed, I find out they're Reformed, then that's 90% of the problems are gone.

Right there. Because they understand the sovereignty of God. They understand justification by faith alone and Christ alone. They understand that we can't do anything to earn salvation.

They understand these things. I don't have to do all this stupid kindergarten, Diaperinian theological vetting to make sure that they aren't trying to keep themselves saved with the infinite holy God by their sincerity and goodness. It's believing a false gospel. So, you know, Reformed theology is certainly helpful. It's not perfect, of course. But there are a lot of churches out there that do teach that we're saved by grace alone through faith alone and Christ alone.

They're out there. See, now, they say that, Matt, and I agree with you, but in their behavior and then when I listen to them, it's still a fear-based gospel that, you know, you better watch your Ps and Qs or he'll throw you in the fire. I mean, they don't say it, but it's understood, you know?

And I have to agree with you. I went through a period of anger that I was exposed to the Pentecostal holiness people who put such fear in me to where I just thought God hated me. He was going to throw me in the fire every time I did something wrong. And it's just like, that's not the gospel of the grace of God.

And I had to forgive those people because I don't care how pure their motives were. They're dead wrong about the gospel. And I'm sorry I'm rambling, Matt. No, you're not. You're not rambling.

You're not rambling at all. You are venting the frustration of what heresy does to you. That's what heresy and false teachings. Matthew 15, 14.

Let them alone. They're blind guides of the blind. If a blind man guides a blind man, both fall into the pit. And so the Roman Catholic Church is a blind guide as is the one that's Pentecostal. The Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I remember when I was younger, this might sound weird, but I remember saying to one of my friends who was Pentecostal, and I was confused. And I said, you know, the people who are teaching us that one sin can keep you out of heaven, you know, they're 100 pounds overweight, so they're guilty of the sin of gluttony. But somehow they get to go to heaven, but we can't because we had an argument or we we had an argument or we didn't listen to our parents or some stupid sin.

We, you know, it didn't make any sense to me. It's all works-based righteousness. And of course, they overlook their own personal struggles with sin, right? So their, you know, their temper problems are, it's all done in righteous indignation or their battle with obesity.

Oh, it's just a genetic problem. See, they overlook their own sin, but then they point out the parishioner's sins. Well, I mean, I had to go through years of like trying to read, you know, like in the military, Matt, my father was in the military.

He served in Vietnam. And you get debriefed. I felt like I had to be debriefed from wrong Christianity. I was taught so wrong, everything opposite of Reformed theology, where it took me months and months of quoting Paul the Apostle to get my brain right.

And one of the things I've been wanting to do is write a book dealing with those who have been in aberrant Christian or aberrant theological systems, Mormons, J-dubs, Catholicism, wacko groups inside of the so-called Protestant nominations and say, this is what the truth is. This is where the basics are. This is what you have to abandon.

This is what you need to adopt. You know, it's just what it is. But you're, you know, you're frustrated, obviously, but you need to understand something that is real simple, that the salvation of God upon you is by his grace, not your works, not your sincerity, and that you're secure in what he has done, not what you can do. That's what it comes down to.

And so you can have rest. And then you need to preach that gospel to everybody else and call those people to task who would teach that you maintain your salvation by your goodness. And one of the things that happens a lot with people who teach that they are the ones who keep themselves right with God through their works and their sincerity. They are the ones who are so arrogant that they cannot see their own pride. And pride, like humility, hides themselves.

Both of them hide themselves in the hearts of people so that they cannot be seen by the hosts, but they can be seen by others. That's how it is. So praise God that you are saved, you know, and, you know, praise God for the Reformed faith in that. Amen.

It sure negates a lot of the heresies, doesn't it? Yeah. Thanks, Matt. All right, brother. God bless.

All right. Hey, folks, you have three open lines. You're going to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Is your driveway being anointed with oil? Staying on the highway with the Christian Car Guy. It may save your life to know, and you can determine whether or not you may even need to get it fixed. And the color is the key. Lay down some white plastic like a kitchen garbage bag underneath the car in the area that's getting anointed, and the white backdrop makes it easy to see the color.

Go to Christiancarguy.com to check the color and see what's leaking from your car. Staying on the highway with the Christian Car Guy. For more tips, go to Christiancarguy.com.

The field of battle is definitely not the place to find out that you are not prepared for a fight. That's also true in terms of spiritual war. And remember, there is no avoiding that conflict if you're a Christian. Join John MacArthur as he shows you how to stand strong by preparing you for spiritual warfare, this week on Grace To You. Join us for Science, Scripture, and Salvation, a radio ministry of the Institute for Creation Research. We want to encourage you in your Christian faith by showing how scientific evidence supports the Bible, particularly the Genesis account. When we see that the first and most foundational book of the Bible can be trusted in all matters, including science, it builds confidence in the rest of the world. And we want to encourage you in your Christian faith by showing how scientific evidence supports the Bible, including science, it builds confidence in the rest of the inspired word all the way up. So not wrong for you to pull him in, but not wrong for you also to let him pull you out.

So we need a balance of this. So yeah, don't stop inviting him, don't stop asking him to go with you to things because you will pull him into experiences he would never have had if he weren't married to you. So give him a good time, expose him to things that we hope he's going to enjoy.

Just don't badger him about it and give him the freedom from time to time not to go with you to such events. That's it for this week on Family Life Today, I'm Matt Slick and welcome back to the show. We have three open lines, if you want to give me a call at 772072276, let's get on the phones with Melissa from Ashboro, North Carolina. Melissa, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How are you doing today? I'm doing okay.

Hanging in there. Well, I've got a question for you and I never have really been sure of this. When we tithe, are we supposed to tithe on our gross income or is our net income that we tithe on? Well, the Bible doesn't tell us but what I would assume is on what we get. So the government, if we have $100, the government takes more and more, Melissa takes $40, well then we're not getting that $40, so I would tithe on what we get net.

That's what I would think. Okay, so you think, okay, so you would say it's okay to tithe on our net income then? That's what I would think because you're supposed to tithe on what you get, well you don't get it all. Okay. So but I don't know, so there you go.

Alright, well that's all I basically have for you. Well, that's what I think but I'm not a financial expert and I've not studied this in the Scriptures. In the Bible there's no net and gross and things like that but what it is in the Bible is you get something and you tithe on what you get. So I would say that's what you do, you tithe on what you get. If the government takes more and more, as it's going to now that someone else is going to become president, we're going to be strapped even further.

So you know, tithe on what you get if there's anything left in our new socialist utopia that's coming. Okay. Yeah, I'm in such dismay over what's going on. Yeah. Okay? Okay. Alright. Alright, well thank you so much, that's all I have for you Mr. Stig, thank you, you have a nice evening. You too, God bless, thanks. Alright folks, if you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276, let's get to, we have four open lines, give me a call folks.

We have Tyler from Long Island, Tyler welcome, you're on the air. Good evening brother, how are you? Doing alright by God's grace.

Good. Just have a quick question about Catholicism, one of my friends, I think I had called before and discussed with you that he became Catholic, and something that he posted on his Facebook page said that Catholics are the ones who compiled the Bible. But when I look at church history, obviously the Roman Catholic Church didn't really exist until about 320, I guess 315 I think, right when, if I'm not mistaken with Constantine, with the Edith of Milan, allowing Christianity to exist with certain measures in the Roman Empire, and then a little bit later on he makes it the official religion of the empire. So when I look at the, and I could be wrong, but when I saw with certain speakers and stuff, the canon of the scripture had already been unanimously agreed upon within the first two centuries of the church, so I think that argument doesn't have any sort of scholarly backing at all. You're right.

Because the Roman Church didn't exist until much later, until like the fourth, fifth century, when the Roman pontiff was being argued for supremacy. Right. So, I don't know, is that a good argument?

Absolutely, and I totally agree with you. The Roman Catholic Church, when Roman Catholics tell me, we gave you the Bible, I'm like, even if you did what you didn't, what does that mean? We gave it to you. That's like me saying, I gave my car to my daughter. I gave you the car, so you have to do what I say.

What? You know, it's that kind of oppressive kind of a thought that they have. But one of the things I will ask them is I'll say, did the Roman Catholic Church give us the Old Testament?

Did it? And they'll say, well, yes, and I go, well, don't tell me that. The Roman Catholic Church wasn't around when the New Testament was given, and Christ recognized the Old Testament, Luke 24, 44, and Luke 11, 43, I think it is. And so, you know, you didn't give us the, your church didn't give us the Bible. And then they'll say, it recognized the scriptures and it authenticated them. Oh, so then your church has the authority to tell us what is inspired.

Is that what it is? So we don't recognize God's inspired word because it's inspired by nature. We need a church organization to tell us, how do you know the Roman Catholic Church is true?

That's when I started going to town on them. Tell me how you know it's true. Because they're going to say, well, you know, it has to go back to history. Where'd you get this?

Where is this? Can you prove it? Just because they have stuff written on paper doesn't mean it's the case. And if they're the early church, then why do they not agree with the early church teachings? I remember I was talking to one Roman Catholic and I set him up so good, I just said, look, I believe in the early church. I believe in the early church writings and he's quoting Tertullian, he's quoting, you know, Chrysostom and stuff like this in Augustine. And I said, well, I'm going to quote my early church fathers, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. And you know, the thing is that what they'll do is they'll go to the church fathers before they go to the word of God. They want man's tradition. It's just ridiculous. But you're on the right track, buddy.

You're on the right track. They don't have any I'd like to stand on. Yeah, like you said, there's no legitimacy because no matter what part of redemptive history you look at, I like the way Gerhard His boss talks about it in his, I haven't read it yet, but I've heard it talked about in his performed dogmatics. He called it the deep, the Protestant conception of, you know, scripture alone, like how from Genesis to revelation, whenever God has, you know, voluntarily, you know, communicated to his people, it's always been by his word spoken or written, or, you know, received in prophetic, you know, whatever mode or the way it's delivered, it's always by what God has said, and not the traditions of men. And I just, again, I, I just, I look at the way the Catholic Church does things, it's just, it's so speculative, as they say, of the scholastic say, you know, I just, I don't see, there's no basis, it's kind of like fluff in the air.

It's just like, oh, we're saying it is because it is, but there's no basis for it. It's pretty sad, you know, and what's really, really is, what's really sad is that they posit themselves as being the true church and that you have to get into the true church in order to have true salvation. They don't point to Christ, they point to Mary.

It's, it's just a, it's a false religion, and people are going to hell because of it. Bankrupt of Christ and his, and his ministerial work, like that's the thing, I read this book once called Roman Catholicism in the Bible, and pretty much, I just put it down, I gave it to a friend, because pretty much, I didn't have to read it any further. The answer to everything that Rome gets wrong is Christ and his ministry. The Gospel is the, the true answer to all of Catholicism's inconsistencies, Christ and his high priest ministry, and I think any, most Catholics should just read the book of Hebrews, and that, if you don't, if you don't leave the Roman Church because of that book, I don't understand, then you just don't understand God's Word, and I'll pray for you. I mean, Hebrews alone should just show you that the, you know, the re-sacrifice of Christ in the Eucharist is not scriptural at all.

Yep. Yeah, I would say read, read the book of Hebrews, and also read Romans 3, 4, and 5, and Galatians 3, 4, 5. And they refute Catholicism, but what Catholicism has done is change the meanings of words and then create new definitions of things and then argue within the gray area of those definitions.

It's a clever deception. You know, and I want to say this because people might think that I was an ex-Catholic. I'm not an ex-Catholic.

I was not a, the only thing I was an ex was an occultist, a pagan, and I got saved. You know, no priest molested me, no Catholic guy beat me up or anything, nothing like that. It's just reading the Catholic stuff and reading the Bible and going, what the heck, do people know what they teach? And I remember the time when I saw an old black and white movie, and they had some priest in his black and white, you know, 40s movie, and he was really humble, really this, really that, and he was a representation of what was good, and I remember thinking, liar, this is a sacerdotalist, you know, God, this guy's teaching heresy, leading people to damnation because he's a Catholic.

And I remember that when the light finally came on, I'm going, man, no way, and people think I'm whacked because I teach like this, but that's what it is. You found the same thing. So, yep, there's a lot of, as you know, I needed a t-shirt that says so much heresy, so little time, because there's a lot of heresy out there.

The Roman Catholic Church is the biggest heretical church in existence. Absolutely. That's right, man.

Yeah. Well, thank you very much, brother. Appreciate it. You're welcome, man. God bless. All right. You too. Oops, sorry about that. Hey, folks, we have five open lines.

If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let me just say something about Catholicism, folks. Look, I don't have some vendetta against the Catholic Church.

It's not me having something happened. No, it's just reading the Bible, comparing it to what Catholicism teaches. That's all. People might say, well, what's your interpretation? How do you know yours is right, man?

Just read. Just read the Bible. Just study God's word. And if you can't do that, then you don't even know what the truth is or how to know what the truth is.

But you've got to read the Bible, and when you read the Bible, you'll find out very quickly. The Roman Catholic Church is not true. It teaches so many false things, and it really does.

It's sad, but it is. Just like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian cult religions. They have a false God, false Christ, false gospel.

At least with Catholicism, they have the right God and the right Christ, but they have a false gospel. That's for sure. Anyway, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call, 877-207-2276. Join Dr. David Jeremiah for his eye-opening message, Who is Jesus?, on the next Turning Point Weekend Edition. Through his work on the cross, Jesus Christ released us from the bondage of self. This week from Chuck Swindoll. Even though He set us free, to be free, we seem to prefer bondage. The price has been paid, the strings have been cut, you have the wings to fly, now go!

Hear a liberating series from Chuck Swindoll, weekdays on Insight for Living. This is Carter Conlon. Sometimes we think that the road to success is simple and always an upward trajectory with more crowds and more notoriety. However, in the kingdom of God, the ministry becomes more significant when we get lower. The Son of God Himself at the Last Supper took a towel and girded Himself and washed the feet of His disciples. David Wilkerson once said to me, Carter, if you want to know the power of God, find the lowest seat in the house and sit there and then you'll know the power of God. Our hearts are filled with peace when we choose to follow where He leads, no matter how it looks. May your prayer and mine be, not my will, Lord, but your will be done. Join us every Tuesday night, 7pm Eastern Time at tsc.nyc for our worldwide prayer meeting.

People are joining us from all over the world. Join us because it's time to pray. Join us this week for A Call to the Nation with Carter Conlon from Times Square Church in New York City. I've had enough of this mockery of God. I've had enough of living in this powerless place.

I'm not going to sit here and lick my wounds any longer. I'm getting up and I'm going to do something that will bring glory to God. Make sure to be with us every week for A Call to the Nation with Carter Conlon. In Touch with Dr. Charles Stanley. When you and I come to open God's Word, we are to be attentive.

Let me tell you why. When the Word of God is opened and the Word of God is preached, every single person who hears it, God has something to say to you. In Touch with Dr. Charles Stanley.

Helping you grow in Christ every day. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get to Steve from Raleigh, North Carolina. Steve, welcome. You are on the air. Hey, appreciate the show, Matt. A lot.

And I think it's timely. I'm in Bible study fellowship. One of our principles are there's no coincidences in God's economy, so I'm working with a fellow and come to find out he's Catholic, and so we're going through this scenario, and I get another guy today that I'm having to be an apologetic guy for Christianity and he's about universalism. So I want to learn more about CARM, and my question is, is that C-A-R-M, is that the actual call letters where I go, and when I go there, then I can get him, being my Catholic buddy, to look where you're showing the problems that they have and the answers to those questions. Is that a correct statement? Yeah, that's correct. C-A-R-M dot O-R-G.

But the site's down right now, just now, it went down about a half hour ago. Okay, so the one you were saying just a moment ago, so I can get it in to other people too, it's called The Gospel According to Rome by McCarthy, is the author. Yeah, McCarthy or McCarthy, it's a red book.

It's one of those. Gotcha, okay. But it's The Gospel According to Rome.

Right, and it is a really good book. Okay. Let's see, Gospel. The big one, I've got something about purgatory and everything, but the big one is about Mother Mary. And I had a conversation with a lady, I was on a job, and she was sharing with me that they believed she's immaculate and had no sin.

I told her Romans 3.23 were all sin and falling short of the glory of God. Can you kind of give me just on this one, because I've got a million questions, but on just this one, that's the key sticking point for these guys, what is the way that I would explain to the next time, or talking to this lady next time, of how that's incorrect and why did God come through Mary as a virgin? I'm going to listen. Well, you're seeing a lot of things, those sort of questions, multifaceted, so I'm not sure how to answer it. So could you just restate one question at a time, and then I'll tackle it, okay? Go ahead.

Are you there? Hello? Okay. Yeah, can you hear me now okay? Yes, sir.

Just, instead of a five-sentence long question, just give me one quick, yeah, one quick question at a time, and I'll be glad to tackle them. Okay, so the question is, they believe what she shared with me, that Mother Mary is sinless and immaculate, or else God wouldn't have came into her to be the mother of him. And I say that can't be right, because of Romans 3.23.

Let me tackle that. Their logic is that God can't enter into a vessel unless the vessel is sinless. And that's not true, because God indwells us, John 14.23, and we're sinless. Exactly.

So that logic doesn't work, to say, I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. And what they're going to say is, it has to be this way. Show me that in the Bible, that that's the case. Show me in the Bible. You're just making it up. Just tell them, you're making it up, and I don't buy it. They are making it up, but, okay, so the next question, Begg, then, is their Bible different than our Bible? Because I've never read their Bible, and come to find out, Catholics haven't read any of their own stuff, because that's the point.

They're not taught how to study the Bible, because the priests do it for them. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let's practice.

Ask me a question. Okay, perfect. All right, so, do they have a different Bible, or other books in the Bible, which they don't have? Yes, they've added seven books in the, between the Old Testament and the New Testament, called the Apocryphal Books. They added them in 1546, and they're not recognized as being true scripture. Not by the Protestant church, and not by Jesus.

Okay? Not by what church? The Protestant denominations don't recognize the- Got it.

I got it. They don't have, and Jesus didn't, either. Jesus said in Luke 11, 51, for the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God. What he was saying there is the first and last book of the Old Testament, the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah. Oh, so that's, okay, so that's where, that's where we get the 39 from, I guess the 39 Old Testament, 27 and the New, is that right?

Correct. Okay, so that's where we get the 39 from, and we get the textual, the textual knowledge that it came from there, from what book says from Abel to Zechariah. Well, no, okay. Jesus didn't recognize the Apocrypha. When he said in Luke 11, 51, for the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, he was quoting the first and last book of the Old Testament, according to the arrangement of the time.

Let me do it. Okay? So it's Luke 51, that was my question.

What, okay. So it's 11, 51, and also if you go to Luke 24, 44, and it says, Jesus says this, these are my words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which were written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled. That's the three divisions of the Old Testament. The Apocrypha is excluded here, okay? So Jesus knew what the Apocrypha was, he excluded them at least two times. Excluded the New Testament, the Apocryphal books. The Roman Catholic Church adds them in and does so to its own destruction.

The Roman Catholic Church, Tobit, and my website's down right now, I'd go find it for you, but it says Tobit, you pay money, in the book of Tobit you pay money for the forgiveness of sins and magic works on some stuff and people, yeah, it's between that, yeah. Okay? Alright buddy? Man, hey, hey dude, I appreciate so much you taking the time and sharing this stuff with us out here and it's the perfect time of night actually and I really do enjoy your ministry. Keep it up, we need the strong folk of the knowledge of our faith out there because there's not people that are being Bereans anymore and that's the whole point of, you know, what we do and I highly recommend Bible study and we are in Bible study fellowship. We also have some other ones down here, we're just very spoiled in Raleigh, I feel like we are in the buckle of the Bible belt and you're a part of it and I just, man, I can't praise you and thank you enough, appreciate you being there. Well praise God, you know, I wish I could get out there and do some teaching out in different churches but, you know, this is where it is right now, so. I think you're better off where you are bro, I'm just saying, I think you're better off right there, you're gonna reach more of us and isn't that the point, really? It is true and, but I do love public speaking, it's one of the, you know, it's the biggest fear in America, public speaking, to me it's just, I just love it, oh man, for me it's fun, I enjoy it. We got some of the guys here that are really good at it and, you know, two of the guys that are teaching leaders, one was Joe Knott and the other one is Alan Dickens and they've been doing it for years and years and years and they're, they're enthralling and when you have somebody like yourself that they're easy to listen to, easy to understand, and you actually have helped me out a whole lot and I didn't realize so much that your teachings have actually helped me with my very heated discussion with this fellow on our job site today, where the guy working me had a chance to hear it, I've been working with him for a few years as well and this guy was a universalist and tried to bring out all this stuff about how the Hebrew and the Greek wasn't really what the Bible says and so on and so forth, so I'm going to be interested to see when Carm gets up how you can help me further.

Just yeah, go to Carm and type in universalism, when the site comes back up it's down right now, the server's down. I'm excited, dude, I'm just telling you, you know, I could, more so about my buddy who's Christian that, let me back up, this Catholic that realizes now that he's more Christian than Catholic, but when you get it beat into your head, since you were a cradle Catholic as they called herself, the one lady did, I can understand why they have one foot in and one foot out, they realize Jesus is the only way, but they just can't understand how they got to break away from the traditions and that's all that it is. There you go, okay, so alright buddy, so God bless, alright, alright Steve? Oh man, you know it, you too bud, I'll see you around and look, go have a good day, keep the joy. Okay, thanks, I appreciate it Steve. See you bud. Alright, well that guy's a hoot, he's full of energy, I like that, a lot of fun, Kathy from Iowa, Kathy welcome, you're on the air. Thank you, can you hear me okay?

Yes I can, so what have you got? I wanted to make a comment about the Roman Catholic Church. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, praise God and thank you so much for illuminating that for people, now I'm going to say something, I don't know how you're going to react to it. Oh here it goes. I'm going to put it out there.

I'm smiling already. Okay, so the whole world, the whole world worships on Sunday, the original Sabbath was on Saturday, the Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility and states that they have divine authority to change the date, time, of when we celebrate the Sabbath, the Sabbath should be celebrated on Saturday, it was never changed, Jesus died, yes, he rose, but no one, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Sabbath should be changed from Saturday to Sunday because Jesus rose on Sunday, so I want to know what your take is on that. I am a seventh-day Adventist, I do love what you, I do love, love, love listening to you and this got me excited, because I've researched this a great deal, so you've got the platform, thank you. Alright, of the Ten Commandments, guess which one is not reiterated in the New Testament?

Take a guess which one it is. The Sabbath. The reason is because the Sabbath is Christ himself in Matthew 11, 28, come to me all who are every laden now will give you a rest, Jesus is our rest, the Sabbath was something instituted by God where he rested, he wasn't tired, and so he rested, and so Jesus himself is our rest and he rose on the first day of the week. On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save as he may prosper so that no collections be made when I come, that's 1 Corinthians 16, 2. And it says in Colossians 2, 16, therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or respect to a festival, which is yearly, a new moon, which is monthly, or a Sabbath day, which is weekly.

Okay, read that again, read that again. Colossians 2, 16, therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or respect to a festival, a new moon. He's talking to the Jewish people. He's talking to the Colossians. I've been there, I've been to the church, I've been to the site of Colossae.

Okay. That's what he says, let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink in respect to a festival, a new moon, or a Sabbath day. Wait a minute, if we're supposed to worship on Saturday, why is he saying that?

So go to Romans 14, I'm going to read the context, we've got time, I've got to hurry up. Verse 4, who are you to judge the servant of another to his own master he stands or falls and you will stand for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person should be fully convinced in his own mind. Now wait a minute, if we're supposed to worship on Saturday, why does Paul the apostle say that one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike?

Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. Why would Paul say that if we're supposed to worship on Saturday? That's why I'm posing the question to you. It's because we don't have to worship on Saturday.

We can worship on any day of the week. I value your wisdom and I value what you say. And that's why I called. Well tell you what, Kathy, we're about out of time. Can you call back tomorrow, let's talk about the validity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Okay. I'll raise some issues to you.

I would love that. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right, God bless.

Sorry Andrew and David from North Carolina. Call back tomorrow, you guys, for the Lord bless you and by his grace, we're back on there tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. See you. See you.