Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Please call us at 877-207-2276. Please call us at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick Live! This is a very difficult ministry to be in. It can be tough. What we're trying to do here is minister to as many people as possible with the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We have all kinds of issues and problems.

Maybe one day I'll talk about them. It's not a big deal. It's just how things are in ministry. Finances, technical stuff, threats, attacks on the servers. It's just stuff that happens when you're in ministry and when you expose error.

And that happens a lot. So please pray for us. Also, if you're so inclined, if you want to support us financially, all we ask is $5, maybe $10 a month. That helps us to set up our budgets for the coming year.

We know if we can hire anybody. For example, what we're going to be doing is getting the money together for another version of CARM to be done in Swahili. There's like 30 million people that speak Swahili or something like that in Africa.

We've got a translator who has other translators ready and waiting. So what you've got to do is get the domain name, get the site built, moved over, and things like that. It takes a little bit of money. And let me tell you, the CARM website, for example, has had 100 million visitors. The Internet is an incredible thing.

You can reach so many people from major nations to little bitty island chains in the middle of nowhere out there in the ocean. We've gotten emails from everywhere saying thank you and people use the information. So praise God you can be a participant in that by supporting us prayerfully and or financially.

Either one. Just go to CARM.org forward slash donate and five or ten dollars a month will be asked. May the Lord bless you. And if you don't, it's okay. Just pray because we certainly need the prayer.

It's a spiritual battle that we are in. All right. If you want to give me a call, we have four open lines. Why don't you give me a call? Okay.

877-207-2276. Look at the Chuck from North Carolina. Chuck, welcome.

You're on national live. Hey, brother. You're too cool, man.

You are too cool. I got a question about my nephew is ex Roman Catholic and now he's agnostic. He says humanistic agnostic.

I don't know, but I'm just starting to try to share my faith and I was just one since you could give me some tips real quick. Well, so he's agnostic, right? Yeah.

Yeah. He believes in there's a higher power, but he doesn't believe that he interacts or, you know, messes with us. You know, I think that's agnostic, right? That's deism and belief in God that exists, but he's not involved in the world.

Right. Agnosticism says he doesn't know if there is or isn't a God. One of the things I'd recommend is I have a book I've written called Apologetics and Atheism.

And you can go to Amazon and you can check it out there. And what I did there was write in such a very easy way, a very conversational style. And people who read it say it's very easy to follow and it'll give you a lot of pointers and things like that and witnessing and worldview problems with atheism. Now he said he's a deist, but in a sense, deism and atheism have a lot of commonalities in that deism says God is not involved in the world. Well, that's what atheists say. So there's similarities and there's some differences too, but that's one thing to do.

All right. So with deists, when I talk to them, one of the things I'll do is I'll say, well, how do you know that God created everything? I want to find out what they teach. And a lot of times they don't know. A lot of times they're very uneducated and I don't mean in an insulting way. It's just they don't know. Well, if they don't know, then I'm going to help them out.

Well, let's talk about that then. What I'll try and do is ground them in the necessity of understanding that there must be a God who is the necessary preconditions for everything. Because there's a statement, without God, you can't explain anything.

It's a real broad brush kind of stroke thing there, but it's true. Without God, the Christian God, you can't explain morality or our existence, rationality. You can't explain these things.

You can't justify their existence is what we mean. And so you always have to explore. So what you need to do is pray for him, of course. Ask him questions. Why does he believe what he believes now, the way he does? Don't attack.

Don't try and give too many answers too quickly. You can ask questions to find out where he is. Yeah, that's what I, that's, I opened a dialogue with him today and he's totally open about talking about it. So I thought that was good and I was asking questions and I threw in, you know, some doctrine that I believed in, but not, I told him everything about, except the resurrection.

I told him about the doctrine of the Trinity, that Jesus was fully man, fully God, and he's the only way to give our sins. So he's ex-Catholic, you know that, I can see that, why that would turn anybody off. Yeah, it's very frequent that people who are Catholics either become atheists, agnostics, or members of cults. Or they sometimes move to Protestantism, which is good. But yeah, Catholicism is so bankrupt in so many ways.

It does so much damage. So you said, what's agnosticism? I want to get this straight. Agnostic? Agnosticism says that they don't know if God is or is not. Atheism... Oh, okay. Yeah, atheism is no God. And was the other one humanist or was that a thing?

Humanist? So, atheism is no God. Theism is God, but God's not involved in the world. Theism is God exists and he is involved in the world. The three major branches of thought in that area. And there's variations. Atheism, theism, and agnosticism.

Yeah, you could go that way. Atheism, deism, theism. But then sometimes there's something called pantheism, where God and the universe are one and the same thing. And that would be deism. But then, is he involved in the world? Depending on what kind of pantheism you hold to, you could say yes or no. But the three majors that I categorize are atheism, no God. Deism, God, but not involved.

Theism, God, who is involved in the world. Okay? Okay? Are you there?

I guess maybe we lost them. Okay. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, we have four open lines.

All you have to do is dial 877-207-2276. John from Florida, welcome. You're on the air. John, can you hear me? Uh oh, maybe we have a problem.

Can you hear me? Let's see. Sometimes this has happened, but once every two months we'll have an issue. And either I have to reboot or our ComRex guy has to reboot. So he's going to check and I'm going to try this. John, are you there?

No, not yet. Okay. So what we'll do is stall for a little bit. Okay, he's going to reboot.

Okay, so I can read. We don't know this, but we have what's called ComRex feed. I have a machine to my left and on the computer on the screen I have the ability to see when people call in. And the producer, what he does is he answers the call and then he types in a little bit of information I can see ahead of time what's going on. And so he says he's going to reboot and that's okay.

So they'll come back on and tell me what's going on. So in the meantime, I'm going to stall a little bit. Hold on. Let me clear my throat. There we go.

I'll have to turn the mic down on that. All right, folks, look. Just to let you know, I've written several books. If you're interested in checking them out, you can go to Amazon.

It's a good place to go. Just go to Amazon and look up Matt Slick and you can find some books there. Matt Slick, M-H-E-T-S-L-I-C-K, just Matt Slick books. I've written like nine, actually a lot more, but we've not released all of them. And working on a couple of other books, I've got to get out. I'm going to hopefully be able to get some more out next year.

And we'll find out. But I've got so many things that I'm doing right now, getting the website converted from one style to another style. And if you are so interested and you want to support us, all you've got to do is go to Patreon and check out Matt Slick there too. You can support us there instead of the Patreon video today. And we always ask, if you're so inclined to support us financially, you know, five dollars a month, you know, wouldn't be very much. And if people are willing to do that, you can go in and set it up and just go to CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G on the right hand side.

You'll see all the information you need. Or just go to CARM.org forward slash donate and there's a way to set something up for recurring donation. Five dollars a month, we can get a couple thousand people to do that.

We can pay all our bills all the time without having to stress, cut corners and do all the stuff. It's not very much, but we do have missionaries in Africa. It looks like maybe coming up with a second missionary there. We've been supporting for years one guy named Joster, awesome guy. We've got a guy, full-time guy for 13 years in Colombia. We've got a guy for about seven years in Brazil. We've got a guy for about seven years in Turkey. So we are supporting them and we also have a guy in Salt Lake City, Luke, if he's listening.

And he's a great guy. And so we support a lot of people, a lot of efforts in writing and producing for the CARM website. All right, let me see if I can try this. It's working yet and it's not working. I've got to get back in. Okay, here we go, let's see. I think I'm back in the stack and nobody's calling, so let's give it a try right now folks.

Give me a call. I think it's working now, let's see. Are you back in? This is live tech stuff.

We'll see, yep, he says he's back in. So we've got five open lines folks, why don't you give me a call. 877-207-2276. Give me a call and you should be able to get in right now.

We had some tech problems, that does happen, not a big deal. And there you go. So I was in a debate on Saturday and debating the nature and extent of the atoning work of Christ with Sam Shimon, a well-known Muslim apologist, in that he works against Islam.

He's very, very, very good at Islam, exceedingly good. And he and I were debating opposite ends on the nature and extent of the atonement, and I did a video on that on Patreon today, talked about it, went over some of the stuff, reviewed it slightly, and you can check that out as well. Again, why don't you give me a call folks, you have five open lines waiting. 877-207-2276. We've got a break coming up here in a little bit.

And what I may do, if people don't call in, because there may be a tech problem still, is I'm going to exegete one of the verses used by Sam, which we can go over, because it was really interesting what he was saying, which he was teaching heresy out of it. And hey folks, guess what, we'll be right back after these messages. Four open lines, give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. We have two open lines, if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Let's get to Sam from Raleigh, North Carolina. Sam, welcome, you're on the air. Thank you, sir. Sir, I thank God for your faithfulness and forgive my ignorance, sir. There's a question about universalism that is something that I don't understand about it. I beg your pardon? Yeah, I'm hearing you.

Are you there? Yeah, there's something about universalism that I don't understand. I accept God's word as his word, but it's just my ignorance.

Adam to Adam, all of us sin. So through Christ, why is Christ's work, his merits, his, you know, his atoning work not applied to all? Why should we, we didn't have a choice in the first instance.

Why should we have a choice in terms of asking in the case of life? I mean, there's many people out of ignorance, you know, who are going to hell. You know, I just don't understand why it cannot be applied to all.

Because it was unintended to be applied to all. In 1 Samuel 3.14, for example, God speaks and he says that he swore that the iniquities of Eli's house would not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever. This is what God said.

God said this. And so the sins of Eli's house will not be atoned for. That right there refutes universalism, the idea that he bore the sin of everybody who ever lived and they will therefore go to heaven because that's what universalism says. They misunderstand various texts like Romans 5.18, 1 Corinthians 15.22. They fail to understand that there are people who are going to go to hell.

In Mark 3.29, 25.46, Revelation 14.11, 20.10, there are a lot of verses that talk about people going to hell and being judged. The universalist argument is similar to the reformed argument on the nature of the atonement. What they'll say is that Christ's sacrifice actually did remove sin. It actually did do it at the cross, which I agree with. It did. Colossians 2.14 says that Jesus cancelled the certificate of debt at the cross. And he did. At the cross is where he cancelled it. Now the question then becomes, who did he cancel it for?

Because there's a logical question. If he cancelled your sin debt, would you be able to do that? Well, the answer is no, because there's no sin to be held to your account. Whether you believe or don't believe in the issue is irrelevant because God can't send you to hell when you're sinless.

And that's what effectively it is. Well, because it says he died for the sins of the whole world in John 3.16, things like that, that the universalist will say the whole world means every individual who ever lived. Well, that's not the case. The word world in John 3.16 refers to all the nations because Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was not sent. He was not sent to the whole world. And he bore the sins of his people. And so the logical explanation for all of this is to say that Jesus only bore the sins of the elect, the ones chosen by God for salvation. That would refute universalism. That would refute universalism. And it would also maintain the efficacy and power of the blood of Christ on the cross.

Because we've got to think about this. Did the sacrifice of Christ accomplish anything? Well, the answer is, well, yes. Well, what did it accomplish? Did it accomplish making something potential or did it accomplish making it actual? So what I mean by that is, is the sacrifice of Christ that occurred 2,000 years ago, did it actually accomplish what God wanted it to accomplish? The answer has to be, well, yes. Is that sacrifice then actualized when we believe?

The answer is no. Because our belief does not make the sacrifice real or not real. It occurred back then. It was finished.

It was finished in real time. So our belief is not what makes the atonement real to us. Our belief is where we are justified when the righteousness of God is imputed to us by faith. Romans 3.28, Romans 5.1, Galatians 2.16. So what we have to understand is that the universalists, what they do is fail to understand the issue of the nature, the power and extent of the atonement combined.

They misunderstand verses that have the word all in it. And I know this because I have had hundreds of hours of discussions with them. Hundreds.

Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. So I know the topic well. And they misapply things. And some universalists will even say that Satan is going to be redeemed and his fallen angels. Which is heresy. Some universalists will teach that. And other universalists will teach that what happens is if you reject Christ in this world, and you go to the next world, you can receive Christ in the afterlife and everybody's going to. And nothing in the Bible says that. It speaks to the contrary.

In Hebrews 9.27 it's appointed an immortal man to die once. After this comes judgment. So universalism is a feel-good theology that is based upon straw. And misinformation and false information. And lack of ability to properly understand the word of God. And I've got a whole section on universalism on my website.

And I'll just say this too. That the only group that's treated me worse than universalists. The only prospective group of people who've treated me worse than them have been Satanists.

Who threatened to kill my family. The universalists are not as bad as that. But they were horrible. The hypocrisy that is present in so many universalists is just pathetic. They profess the great love of God but if you don't agree with their perspective they turn on you.

Like dogs turning on you. So not all universalists are like that. Some are quite nice. But for the most part I've found them to be very judgmental. Short sighted.

And they can't exegete their way out of a wet paper bag. So if you're interested you can go check the stuff out on Karm. Okay. Thank you sir. So you say salvation is monergistic and not synergistic. Is that correct sir?

Absolutely. Monergism says that God is the one who is the author and perfecter of our faith. He even grants that we believe. 1 Timothy 1.29. He grants us repentance. 2 Timothy 2.25. He causes us to be born again.

1 Peter 1.3. We're born again out of our own will. John 1.13. We're chosen for salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2.13. We're chosen before the foundation of the world in Christ. Ephesians 1.4.

So this is the work of God. We cannot come to Christ unless we've been drawn by God the Father. That's John 6.44. And we cannot come to Christ unless God grants that we come to him. John 6.65.

So that's monergism. Synergism is what the cults teach, Roman Catholicism teaches, Eastern Orthodox teaches. That we have to, in the wisdom of our own sinfulness, to cooperate with the grace of God. In our wisdom what we do is then trust in what God has done. It denies the teaching that the unbeliever is a slave of sin, Romans 6.14-20. It denies that there are haters of God who do not seek for God and do not do any good, Romans 3.10, 11, and 12. It denies that their heart is full of evil, Jeremiah 17.9. It denies these things and says that man is still able to in the kindness and goodness of his own heart to choose Christ, which is contrary to scripture.

And universalists fail in those areas as well. Okay? All right, buddy? Thank you, sir. Thank you. God bless you, sir. All right, man.

God bless. Talk to you later. Hey, folks, we'll be right back. After these messages, we have one open line. 877-207-2276.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Welcome back, everybody. Here's Matt Slick live. We have one open line if you want to fill it in there.

877-207-2276. Let's get on the line here with Kevin from Tennessee. Hey, how you doing? Hey, Matt. I'm good. All right.

What do you got, buddy? Yeah, I have a question about Jesus' resurrection. There's a prayer and Bible contradiction. Jesus tells the man on the cross he will be with him in paradise that day after the resurrection. He told Mary he had not ascended to the Father yet.

I was just curious on that. You mean where did he go between his resurrection or his death and resurrection? Is that your question? Hello? Did I lose you?

Hope we didn't lose him again or have another tech problem here. So, Kevin, if you hear me, say something. And if not, I'm going to give the answer anyway. We don't know exactly where Jesus went as far as location goes.

There's some theories. What it appears to be is that while he was out of his resurrected body that he went to the spirits in prison and made proclamation. And that's in 1 Peter 3, roughly 18.

And as it says, for Christ died also once for all but just for the unjust so that he might bring us to God having been put to the death of the flesh made alive in the spirit in which also he went and made proclamation of the spirits now in prison. And so one theory is that that's what he did. Now, it looks like that is the case because that's what it says right there. But here's something else. Let's see. I'm going to type something in.

Okay, good. And another thing is that in Ephesians 4, I'm going to turn to that, Ephesians 4, it talks about, there we go. Check on the text up here. It says this, that in verse 7, but to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore, it says, when you set it on high, he led captive a host of captives and he gave gifts to men. Now, one of the theories is that out of Luke 16, 19 through 32, or 31, when Jesus gave the story of Lazarus and the rich man, you know, they both died and when they had this conversation with Abraham, it's called Abraham's bosom. So some think that the saints who died in faith before the sacrifice of Christ went to that holding place, paradise, Abraham's bosom. And then what happened is that Jesus went there, proclaimed the gospel because, or he was informing them of what had happened on the cross since they'd already died in faith.

And then he led them up into heaven, into the presence of God, because that was only possible after the shed blood of Christ occurred. So it looks like that that's what happened in that context. Okay, so we are having another tech problem. I don't know if you guys can hear me in the chat room.

So if you guys can, or Charlie, if you can hear me in the chat room, if they can hear me, something like that, let me know. So the Comreks are having to reboot it again. So we had five callers or four callers waiting, so we lost all that. And so if you want to give me a call, you might have to wait one full minute before that is taken care of.

So that's a second time. Oh, so you guys can hear me. That's good. That's good. You can hear me. All right.

Good. So this is what the theory is, the main theory. And I kind of lean towards the idea that what happened is that when Christ did complete the atoning sacrifice, he did make proclamation of the spirits. And that wasn't a gospel offering, but just a, hey, this is why you're here, this is who I am, this is what's happened, you guys are out of luck. And then he went to, I don't know about the order, which one he did first, but went to the saints who died in faith in hope of the coming of the Messiah, proclaimed to them or announced to them, informed them who he was and what he had done, and then took them and went to heaven with them. And so that seems to be what the case is called the interim or the intermediate state and what Christ did during that time.

Now I'm going to raise an issue here. I'll wait for callers to come back in, which I may have to reload my browser here in a little bit and to do this. What happened? Think about this as far as the two natures of Christ goes. If Jesus died on the cross, which he did, and he died physically on the cross, which he did, what happened to the hypostatic union? What happened to the two natures of Christ? Now this is a serious issue, I'm going to talk about this, so if you want to give me a call, we rebooted the Comrex, he's back, give me a call folks, 877-207-2276.

We have five open lines, just give me a call and we'll get back in and we'll blab. Alright, now think about this. If Jesus is one person with two distinct natures, which is the correct doctrine, it's called the hypostatic union, let's say that as some heretical teachings go, that is called soul sleep, that the human nature of a person either ceases to exist upon death and is resurrected to life to be judged, or goes into a state of unconsciousness and non-functioning.

Period. There's no function at all. This is one of the other views in what's called annihilationism or conditionalism. How would that affect the nature of Christ's atonement? Because the atonement exists because Jesus Christ is God in flesh, two natures, God and man.

He's God in order to offer a sacrifice sufficient for God, but he's man in order to offer a sacrifice on behalf of people. And the hypostatic union, the two natures of Christ in one person cannot be violated. If it's violated, we have a denial of the true incarnation and then the sacrifice itself becomes invalid. So at his death, Christ was two natures in one person. But what would have happened if after his death, the human nature ceased to exist, as some annihilationists teach? That would deny the continuation of the person of Christ as who he was, and then there would be no true resurrection of Jesus, which would mean that Christianity is falsified. Now they might say, well no, he was resurrected, he was reunited in his body, but this is a problem called continuity. Because if he ceases to exist, then there is no continuity between actuality between the person, between state one and state two.

I can get into the logic of that, but it won't be right now. If, however, they say it's soul sleep, that Christ's soul was unconscious and inactive, one of the things I've asked, and I've not received any answers because they don't know, is when the soul is asleep, is there any energy that's occurring? Now that's a serious question, because if I think, that's energy. If I dream, that's energy. If there is no energy, there is no life.

So, I was asking, and I've talked to some annihilationists about this, conditionalists, and they don't answer, because they don't know, and it's problematic in itself. If the human soul is asleep and there's no energy going on, then there's no existence, and that's flaming heresy. But what if there is an energy that is expended by the soul?

Well, if that's the case, how would they know? And what is occurring in the soul? Is it asleep and conscious? Is it dreaming?

These are questions I ask, and they don't have answers to them. So what they'll do is they'll say, well, soul sleep is real. Well, what is soul sleep?

Is this unconscious state, is there energy being going? Well, I guess so. Well, can you explain what it is? Well, we don't know. They don't have any answers. They don't think very far along these things. And if there is no activity in the human nature, particularly when Christ is working, then when he was in the intermediate state preaching and teaching the gospel to the people in the afterlife, proclaiming why the judgment is what it is and their status and stuff like that, then the human nature was not involved.

Well, that would be a denial of the sufficiency of the personhood. So you see, these issues are interrelated, and there's a real problem there from that view. All right. Now, let me say that the Commerich stack says, the guy, Keith, says he still cannot hear the callers. So I assume that he's going to reboot. We've got a break coming up, and let me type in, are you going to reboot? Question mark. And what he might be able to do is during the break time is take more time out to redo things.

So he says three times the charm. So when we get back, I'll tell you what we can do, folks. For those of you who are in the chat room, why don't you do this. Why don't you type in some questions, and if for some reason the Commerich does not come back on right, I'll just answer your questions. And so you can just type them in. And maybe Charlie, what you can do is write a few of them down, and when I'm about done, you can put one back in or whatever if I don't see them or they scroll up. So this is what's going on.

It's no big deal. I've done radio for almost 16 years now, and we've had some glitches here and there, and for me to just roll the punches and keep going forward. So I've always got something to talk about and stuff like that. So we're about due for the break, so I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe Charlie or somebody can tell me when we're on break, because I don't know what the status is of the Commerich, because I have to hear the music in order to know we're on a break. But what I'll do is I'll keep talking and keep stalling. All right. So those of you who are in the chat room, please, if you can hear me still, and I believe you can, please just type in some questions, and then in the last segment of the break, what I'll do is I will answer, and there's the music.

So hopefully we'll get things going after this break. We'll be right back, folks, after these great messages. Please stay tuned. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, folks. Well, hopefully we've gotten past the tech problem.

We're going to find out right now. Let's get to the caller. Oh, we have four open lines if you want to give me a call.

877-207-2276. Let's check out Jeff from Dallas, Texas. Jeff, you're on the air. Hi, Matt.

I just want to tell you one thing, and that's it. With this whole belief that Jesus died on the cross, it says in John 13 21, Jesus testified, I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me. And then Hebrews 10 10, it says, then he said, Here I am. I have come to do your God's will. And by that will, we have been made holy through the body and sacrifice of Jesus Christ once and for all. So God wanted somebody to betray Jesus. It was how he was going to forgive people. So salvation founded on betrayal. Okay, what's your question? Are you an atheist or what? Yes.

Okay, so what's your complaint then? Mine is that if people are going to be going into heaven because of this belief that Jesus died on the cross, just know that salvation was founded on betrayal before. Well, no, salvation is not founded on betrayal. It's founded on the blood of Christ. That cleanses us of our sins.

And a betrayal was necessary, unfortunately. Hosea 6 6 says, I desire mercy and not sacrifice. And then Jesus repeated it twice. Yeah, it's a different context, too. You atheists do know what the word context means, right?

That's a correct atheist all the time. Read it in its context. In the context of Hosea, he's not talking about the coming atoning work of God in flesh. He's talking about their obedience and their false sacrifices that they were giving in their hypocrisy. That's different than Jesus Christ bearing our sin in his body on the cross. Okay. Yeah, so even the whole idea, I was curious, I was like, if a person dies for your sins, it doesn't matter if you believe in it or don't believe in it.

It paid the price. So I'm curious, why does it only matter if you believe in it? Like Buddhists, of course, aren't going to believe in it. Hindus aren't going to believe in it. So it seems almost kind of like God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus, engineered the circumstance of their death in ignorance of revelation, and then created the penalty for that ignorance.

And that's a conscious torment, eternity of fire. So you're reading it. Okay. Here's the thing. A lot of times, and I'm going to answer you, but I just want to let you know that a lot of times when I debate atheists, teach them or answer their objections, they're not doing their own thinking.

They just parrot what they've heard, what they'll read, and then they think that that's a gotcha and it's not. So let me introduce some concepts to you. Adam and Eve were in the garden. God created them and everything was good. Now what atheism teaches is no God. And what it does is it denies God as part of the explanatory ability of the universe, right and wrong and all of that kind of stuff. When Adam and Eve started taking things into their own hands, they were acting like atheists. When they started saying, well, I'm not going to believe God at his word. I'm not going to consider it.

I'm going to do it the way I want to. Functionally, they were behaving like atheists and that's when things went bad. Adam and Eve, or Adam, I should say, there's a Christian doctrine, and this is what the atheist sites rarely ever, ever do. Rare is ever actually study the issues. Atheists will come to me and they want me to know their atheism, agnosticism, strong atheism, weak atheism, epistemological issues, deontological issues. They want me to understand platonic norms, justified belief systems, Kant. They want me to know about Hume. I have to answer all kind of stuff and be able to read solipsism and do everything. But they do not do their homework and study what they criticize when it comes to Christianity. I have to know multiple topics. They don't have to know anything because they just read off of a website and cite something.

That's all I do. In this explanation I'm going to give you, one of the Christian doctrines is called federal headship, that the male represents the descendants. Adam represented us when he fell. We fell in him, sin entered into the world, and the consequence of that sin is such things like Hinduism, Mormonism, atheism.

It's the effect of sin. You can choose whatever you want to choose. No one's stopping you from choosing. You are choosing to rebel against a true and living God, and you're going to pay the price for it, eternal damnation.

Guess what's going to happen? So you're choosing, no one's forcing you. God doesn't force you to choose that. Go ahead. Here's the thing is that God betrayed Adam and Eve actually.

He put them in a garden and created them. Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. I don't want you to speak blaspheming. Excuse me, I'm not going to let you speak. God is evil. Hold on, hold on.

Stop for a second. I'm not going to let you blaspheme God and say that he did evil things. Let me speak.

This is wrong for you to do that, but I can turn the tables on you. You can say that something is bad or wrong. Who are you as an atheist to say what's right and wrong, what's good and bad, evil or good? What standard do you have? I have a standard of what is it, like the sense that the results of my actions have an effect on those around me and theirs have an effect on me, and if we're going to live cooperatively together, we have to recognize the result of those actions.

I get them from an understanding of reality, not an assertion of authority. Is it wrong for me to come over to your house and rob you? Yes, and...

Wait, wait, wait. Why is it wrong? Why is it morally wrong? Because that stuff belongs to me and it doesn't belong to you.

I did nothing to you. So? It doesn't make us right or wrong. So what?

It belongs to you. Why is me taking what belongs to you morally wrong? Because you say so? Because the law says so as a result of those actions. Oh, so if the law says kill all atheists, is that okay to do just because the law says so? If the law says enslave black people, is that okay just because the law says so? Well, the God of the Bible seems to think enslaving those is pretty good. We're talking about the law, and you don't know what slavery is in the Bible. That's another mistake you made. You haven't studied.

Go to karm.org forward slash slavery and you can read what the biblical thing of was, not what you think it was like 1800s America. You just don't know. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Do your homework.

Hey, hey, buddy, buddy, Jeff, Jeff. I've done the research. I do the homework for you guys. I know what that website you coded.

I've gone there. They take things out of context. They set things against each other that don't belong even in the same grouping. They are the ones who are doing evil.

Think about it. The evil Bible. They had to first give me a standard. Justify what evil is.

This is because a bunch of atheists say, we're going to tell you what's evil. Where did they get their standard? They have to be able to say what is right and wrong and a universal standard. So where are you going to get that from? Your observation, if I come over to your house and rob you, you can't say it's wrong.

You can just say you don't like it. If I was to live my life according to the Bible, a lot of people would be put to death according to Old Testament law. Are we in the Old Testament law right now? According to Jesus, yes. Think not that I have come to change the law or abolish. I have not come but to fulfill.

Very good. And what does it mean to fulfill the law? Meaning to keep it alive. Like in Christianity. No it does not. No it does not.

Let me help you. Look, I'm a trained theologian, you're not. That's not what it means. To fulfill the law in Matthew 3.15 talks about the requirements that he had to undergo to be a priest and to offer for the sacrifice. The Old Testament law, if you've studied covenantal theology, you would know that there were certain things aimed only for Israel and other things aimed for everybody. And if you were to study theology, biblical theology, I recommend you go to the book of Hebrews, chapter 8 and 9, and read up where it says the Old Testament covenant is abrogated by the New Testament. Do you have any idea what that means? Yes, it means that whole thing about sacrifice and nothing is, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

Hebrews 10, yeah, 10.2. Look, here's the thing, you don't understand what you're criticizing. And I mean this in a loving way. You, like so many atheists, have no clue what you're talking about. You go to some stupid website, you read something, you think, oh look, we're going to prove it. First of all, if you want to say something's evil, give me a standard that's universal and applicable to everybody. Then you can talk about what's right and wrong.

Second, if you want to talk about Old Testament requirements, if you want to talk about Old Testament requirements, you better understand the New Testament covenant abrogation and what that means. You don't even understand it. You have no clue. You shame yourself and your ignorance publicly. If I was ignorant, I would be believing in this stuff. If you were ignorant, really?

If you were ignorant, you'd be believing in this stuff, really? Then tell me what a covenant is. An understanding, a reaching of a... It's also a fact that nobody reads the Bible and walks away knowing how the Trinity works. Okay, what's a covenant?

You say you're educated, you say you study, you say you know these things? What is a covenant? What is a covenant? You don't know. You don't know. A reaching of understanding? No, it's not.

Did Jesus rise from the dead according to the Bible in the same body he died in or a different body or a spirit body? I don't know. It's told in... So you don't know, so you have no idea. You have no idea, Jeff. Jeff. Jeff, you have no idea. Mark, 9 through 20 never happened.

Matthew 28, 19 never happened. Hey, hey, guess what? Guess what?

Guess what? Dude, dude, stop. Stop.

Stop. First of all, I can answer those things. You don't take time to study. All you're doing is regurgitating crud from a stupid atheist-based website where the guys who wrote it couldn't argue their way out of a wet paper bag. I challenge atheists all the time to study the thing they're criticizing because they don't know what they're talking about. And I ask you basic questions about the Christianity that you attack and you don't even understand the basics of the Christian faith. And you're attacking it. Would you like it if I said, well, atheism means that you believe in God, just don't like him? And you say, no, it's not.

And I say, yes, that's what it is. You say, you don't even know what you're talking about. You want me to study your stuff, understand humanism. You want me to understand epistemological, ontological issues. You want me to understand all these things.

You don't understand what you're criticizing. Do you personally think it's wrong to torture a person forever and give them a finite life? No. Don't worry about the Bible. Do you personally think it's wrong to torture a person forever and give them a finite life? No, I don't think so because of what the Bible says.

Why does that standard not meet God? You didn't hear what I just said. Hey, Jeff, you didn't understand what I just said.

Jeff, Jeff. I said, I don't think it's wrong. I said, I don't think it's wrong.

Okay. So you are immoral, my friend. What standard have you got, my friend, by which you can judge my morality? Who are you to say what's right and wrong? You seem to be representing a God who you claim is loving and at the same time, excuse me, excuse me. You hypocrite. You false teacher. Who are you to say what is right and wrong?

Who are you to judge God himself in your ignorance and in your youth, in your lack of study and your inability to think critically and logically? If you want to say something's right or wrong, give me a standard by which you can judge it first. And if you can't do that, you just shut up and sit down. So if you want, you get your buddies together.

You get your buddies together and you contact me at info at karm.org and I'll get into a chat room with them and I'll tackle them all one at a time and I'll call them on the carpet. Let's talk about morality, the very morality you assume is universally true, which you cannot establish as being true. If you don't have a leg to stand on, you and your incredible ignorance of Christianity and in your whacked atheism, we're out of time, folks. He's aggressive. Pray for the redemption of his soul.

He's obviously given over to a lot of hatred and lies. May the Lord bless you, by his grace, folks. Be back on here tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. See you next time.