Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show.

It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. If you are new to the show, what we do here is answer questions on Bible theology, doctrine, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Unity, Baha'i, Islam, Roman Catholicism, Atheism, the Occult, UFOs, Transcendentalism, Universals, Logic, Information Theory, Evolution. We talk about all kinds of things here and have discussions. Matt Slick is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org.

He is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry found online at karm.org. My question is, once you're saved, are you always saved? Yes.

Now the people are going to be saying no to that, and I do want to debate them, but that's my position. The reason I say that is because of what Jesus says to John. Okay, so that makes me feel better. If he's saved. Okay. If he's really saved, that's the question.

Right. And so a lot of times people can be saved and then they can slide a little bit and then they come back. But a lot of times the reason people get saved is often the wrong reason. They hear this stuff, just ask Jesus into your heart. That is not what it means to be saved. It's not how you get saved. Ask Jesus into your heart. You'll be fine.

He'll make a better life for you. That's not it. And so there's a lot of false conversions going on out there. And they've given Jesus a try.

It doesn't work. So he's probably, how old is he? Probably 21, 19, 20? Twenty-five.

Twenty-five. Okay. His brain is what we developed by now. Well, see, girls have this ability. They look good. And we guys, you know, we're like, ooh, hey, look at that. She looks good. And that's how we are. We're put together. I still say that about my wife. You know, we've been married 34 years and known each other over 40. And I still look at her and I go, ooh, baby.

She just runs away. Because, you know, girls look good. And so it's a big draw for guys.

And if she's got crystals and she looks good, okay. So if you get my drift, so we've got to find out what's really in his heart. Is it God?

Or is it something else? Do you have any suggestions? So the couple of times I've tried to bring up the conversation about his faith, reestablishing, you know, do you have any advice for leading him back to?

Pray. You're the mom. Moms don't know anything. Can't talk to their kids because they're moms. And dad's the same thing.

So you have to have some stranger, generally speaking. So what you need to be doing is praying and have your friends pray and pray for the deliverance of your son back into the true faith that he would abandon this idiocy of the new age and crystals. I'd be willing to talk to him if he wants to call the office sometime.

I can talk to him. I used to be in the new age occult kind of a thing. So I know what he's doing. And I know what she's doing. What she's doing is looking for control, power, and influence. That's what it is. When you try and do that kind of a thing, crystals are for getting in tune with something so that you can get more influence, power. You want harmony.

You want this. It's self-centered. Christianity is other-centered. So this is why the majority of the world will fall into something like that because it's self-centered, not other-centered.

And then they'll use the word of true love and things like that while they're narcissistic. So it's a toughie. And then there's the source. Yeah, there's a lot of issues there. So when you say he can call the office, what office? On the phone, on the, oh boy, let's see. You know, the thing to do is this, is if he's willing to talk, you know, you can set it up, whatever. Just email us at info at karm.org and say, you know, talk to me on the radio. He's willing to talk.

Here's a phone number. Here's days and times when he's available. And then I can zip him and we'll call. Okay. Okay. So the question I had was, there's a lot of discussion going on right now about rapture and tribulation as to which one comes first. Well, I hope the rapture comes first, but I believe the tribulation comes first.

That's me. Now the majority of Christians in America believe that the rapture is going to come first. I don't see it in scripture. And I'm not calling them dumb. I'm not saying I'm smarter.

I just study it. And I don't see it. That's just me. And maybe others will say something different.

But there are things that I know in scripture that just do not and cannot fit into the preacher rapture view. So I just... Yes.

Yes. Now a lot of people who will hear me are going to think, well, wait a minute, are you saying you can be a Christian and be involved in the occult? That's okay. I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that sometimes Christians can be dumb, can be stupid, and God lets them have their wayward way for a little while before he yanks them back. That can happen. And that's what I'm saying. If he's truly saved, God will often let us do this.

He does on a daily basis anyway. When we have our stupidity that we put before God and before our spouses, before our families, we do things. So how long is the leash? Well, you know, the people who will say, oh, you know, Matt, you're saying it's okay to sin.

No, I'm not saying it's okay to sin. You know, the leash is 20 feet with them. And God has a one-foot leash with you. There's still a leash going on in it. He allows you a certain amount of freedom to rebel and doesn't take us home.

So how far will he do that with different people? I can tell you this, that he did this with me when I was younger. And to this day, I look on things and I think, what was I thinking? I'm supposed to be a Christian. And I believe I was.

I believe I was. There was a struggle going on. And he let me have the struggle. And I have so many regrets looking back on time and things like that.

But they made me stronger because of it. And now I can relate to others because of it, et cetera, et cetera. All I can tell you is God's grace is incredible. It's incredible.

It's incredible. And then you know, you're going to be stirring the pot and you're going to be praying. Are you married? You've got a husband? Yeah.

Yeah? No. Okay. Then get your friends and you pray with them because, if they're married, your husband needs to know about this. But you're the woman of the house, it would have seemed.

Pray, and just be ready for maybe a little spiritual up his notes and stuff like that because it's stirring up spiritual pot when you're praying against a New Age crud. Okay? All right. Thank you.

Thank you so much. I enjoy your show. Have a good night. Well, thank you. Good night. Good night. God bless. All right. That was Ann from North Carolina.

Wow. If you want to give me a call, just dial 877-207-2276. Let's get to Al from North Carolina.

Al, welcome. You're on the air. How you doing, Matt? Doing all right. Hanging in there. What do you got, man?

What's up? So I've been witnessing to my son, and I'm talking about the Bible being the inerrant word of God. And then he brings up this book of Enoch that was supposedly found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Do you know anything about that? It was written about 200 B.C. It's a compilation of various things of some Jews who put stuff together. It's not written by Enoch. It's just a compilation of information about, they called the book of Enoch. Okay.

That's all. So if memory serves, wasn't the book of Enoch referred to in the New Testament somewhere? Yeah, in Jude.

Yep. So are you familiar with my website? I've heard you mention it on the air. I don't catch your show all the time, but I have not gone to the website yet. Well, you should go to the website. There is a great amount of information there. I've been working on the site for 25 years.

In fact, it'll be 25 years old in three days. And on there you can do a search, other books mentioned in the Bible. I have a list of 20 books referred to in the Bible that are not scripture. The Book of Wars, the Book of Jasher, the Chronicles of David, the Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah, the Book of the Kings of Israel, the Words of the Kings of Israel, the Decree of David and the King of Israel.

And it goes on. So there's lots of books that are referenced. Just as Paul, in Acts 17, he quotes Epimenides and Menander.

I think it's in Acts 17. And they're pagan philosophers. It doesn't mean that they're inspired if they're referenced. Okay? True. But that's all it is. Okay. Not a big deal.

Alright. So that book of Enoch, was it found with the Dead Sea Scrolls? I think it was because the Jews, they had a lot of stuff, not only the Old Testament books, but some other stuff in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And incidentally, I've been in Qumran Cave 1, the very cave where the first scrolls were found by the shepherd. And I've actually been inside the actual cave. I get a brag. Wow. Yeah, it was great.

And I love going to Israel. So anyway, so it's not inspired. Just like the apocryphal books aren't inspired.

Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that. But just because it was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls doesn't make it canonical or however you say it. Right. So what they did was they copied a bunch of Old Testament documents. They did that. And they also copied other documents that had historical value. It doesn't mean that they are inspired. Why do people think because the Dead Sea Scrolls are there and anything in there, oh, it's automatically inspired.

Where'd they get that? It doesn't make any sense. And so just because other books are there, see other books are recorded. So therefore they're inspired too.

No. If I put a Bible and a book of Mormon and the Catholic Catechism all in a suitcase and bury it and a thousand years later someone finds it, they go, see, the Catholic Catechism and the Book of Mormon are all inspired. It's found with the Bible. It makes no sense whatsoever. That's all.

Yeah, guilty by association I guess. Yes. So what was the definition of what made the books that ended up in our 66 book Bible, what was the definition when they made it canon or canonized, whatever they call it? Well, let's talk about the Old Testament instead of the New Testament because the Book of Enoch is before the New Testament was written. The Jews knew about it and didn't recognize it, and neither did Jesus. So Jesus says in Matthew, in Luke 24, 44 I believe it is, he says from the Law of the Prophets and the Psalms are about him. It excluded the apocryphal books, the Book of Enoch. He also says in, I think it's Luke 11, 51, let me check because he says something very important there. He says, yes, Luke 11, 51, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who was killed between the altar and the house of God, yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation. That was the arrangement of the first and last books of the Old Testament and it excluded the apocryphal books as well as Enoch as being inspired. Okay? That was in Luke 11, 51 you said?

Yeah, go to my website and look up, is the Apocrypha inspired? You'll see the information. Okay, buddy? Gotta go. Okay. Thanks very much.

All right, man. God bless. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome. We're working on some tech stuff, some sound stuff.

Apparently my voice doesn't go through Facebook and stuff very well. We're working on it during the breaks. Let's get to Scott from Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Scott, welcome.

You're on the air, man. Thank you. I got a premise and then I'll read a verse if it's all right to back it up. Sure. I was talking about 1 Corinthians 7, verse 14 and 15.

Yeah. It was talking about a man or a woman married to a non-Christian spouse. And my premise here is that the vast majority of the children that are aborted end up in hell because of their parents. That's just my premise. Can I read the verse?

Yeah, you can, but I have it right here. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband. For otherwise, your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

Right. Without a holiness, no one should see God. Unless you're clean, you probably won't see heaven either. Well, that's one of the issues that I've wondered about, that exact reasoning that you're bringing forth, is if they're not a believing parent of the children, are the children then under the covenant and are they sanctified for clean use? Well, we can make the case that yes, that's the case, but also to be unclean doesn't mean you're not saved. So unclean has to do with ceremonial things. And what it's talking about in 1 Corinthians 7 are the present circumstances and things like this, but talking in the marriage, the unbelieving wife and the husband, it says the children are sanctified to the believing parent. It doesn't say they're saved, it doesn't say they're not saved. It says they're sanctified, they're made clean. So it has to do with ceremonial things, which is interesting. Why would Paul be talking about that in 1 Corinthians 7? Because it's in the new covenant. And then he goes on, he talks about that if the unbelieving leaves, let them go.

For you do not know whether you'll save your husband or how do you know a husband whether you'll save your wife. It's really an interesting discussion. And what he talks about here are some things that you can ask lots of questions about too. Why is he saying it this way?

But other than that, I'm not exactly sure what to tell you. There's been some commentators who just had different opinions. You can be unclean and still make it to heaven, maybe? You know what you were saying? Well, you know, see there are plenty of Jews, for example, they could be sanctified, set apart for holy use, do good things, be on the way to heaven, be believers in God, and then become unclean by touching a body. That doesn't mean they're damned. It means they're ceremonially unclean. So what's going on when it says your children are unclean, particularly in the new testament covenant? In the new testament, the old laws of these cleanliness laws are done away with. So what's he saying when he says your children are unclean, particularly to the Corinthians? That's the thing.

It's a bit of a difficult area to really solve. But certainly what defiles a man is his sins, is it not? Well, what comes out of a man is what defiles the man. That's what the Bible says.

What comes out of the man defiles him. And holy, the last part of verse 14, but now they are holy. But before Christ, if you weren't a Jew, you were unclean.

Yeah, this is, like I said, this is a tough one. It says, for the believing, unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife. Does that mean the unbelieving husband is saved?

Nope. Because he's an unbeliever. To be sanctified in context is to be set apart for holy use. You could have unbelievers sanctified for this purpose, which is right there. To be sanctified doesn't always mean you're saved. That's just how it is in the Bible. It says the unbelieving wife is sanctified through a believing husband. There has to do with the issue of one flesh covenant aspect of relationship in the covenant bound of marriage. And so if you have a believing spouse and an unbelieving spouse married, their children are sanctified. They are no longer unclean.

But I'm just going to be honest with you. I don't know what that means when he says the children are unclean, because if he'd have said sanctified, that would have made perfect sense. But he uses the word unclean, which it might just be another way of saying not sanctified. So it's something to think about.

I could read some more commentaries and stuff, look at the Greek. But that's what I've understood it to be, is just a sanctified use doesn't mean they're saved. Doesn't necessitate that.

Okay, just the last comment. Abortion. If 90% of the people together get an abortion are not Christians, then 90% of their babies will be not Christian. And they'll go to hell before they...because they'll probably rest in peace, relatively speaking. Well, this is another issue.

I always found that to me. We don't know what happens to aborted babies. If they all go to heaven, then that's what's right. If they all go to hell, then that's what's right. If some go to heaven and some go to hell, then that's what's right. Because God will always do whatever's right. But we just don't know what the Bible says.

Now, personally, I lean towards they'll go to heaven. And the reason I do is because I've lost a son at birth and he died on our arms. And I'm too emotionally involved. I can never see this objectively.

And so I just say, that's my position. And I have this unusual thing about children. I can't stand to see children injured. I can't stand to hear about them getting injured. It's very upsetting to me.

I don't know what it is, why. And so I really can't be objective about that. And so I just affirm that position and I move on from there. Okay. I'd better let you go, yes?

I'll monopolize your time. Okay. That's all right.

Appreciate your thoughts on that. Well, appreciate your calling. And please call back because you have good questions, buddy. All right?

Feel free to always call back. All right. Well, all right. All right.

Okay. Let's get in line with, let's see, that'll be David from Raleigh, North Carolina. Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

Hope you're doing well. I am, by God's grace. Oh, good. I just had a question about Mark chapter three, where Jesus was being accused of using Satan's power to cast out demons. And the first part of the passage, verse 23 through 26, I can pretty well get that where Satan cannot have the power to throw himself out of a person or something like that. But then when we get verse 27, no man can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man, and then he can rob his house.

I kind of stumble at how that transition has been made at that point. Well, this is paralleled in Matthew 12, 22 to 32. And that's the reference I go to in Matthew about this, because what he's saying is that the strong man, that's the devil, was bound when Jesus was there. Because in the parallel passage of Matthew 22 through 32, he says you can't cast out demons unless you bind the strong man. Jesus is casting out demons, so therefore he's bound the strong man. Simple logic.

And then he says the strong man equates him with the devil. That's what's happening there. So hold on, I've got a break coming up. Sure, no problem.

In light of that, probably another question, not a different one, just you'll move along through this, because this is an interesting topic, okay? We'll be right back, folks. After these messages, if you want to give me a call, we have two open lines, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on the line with David from Raleigh, North Carolina. Dave, are you still there? Okay, still here. All right.

So I had to save some stuff because we're coming up to the break, said it quickly. So I don't know if that helped or not, did it? I think so. So the reference to there is that Jesus is the one who's overpowering Satan and binding him so that he can remove the demon spirit from the house, which is the body of the man, I guess. And then I guess what it refers to then about the eternal sin being the blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will be where people attribute the actions of the Holy Spirit to Satan instead. Correct.

Yes. Now think about this. Jesus didn't know miracles until after his baptism. He entered into the priesthood at his baptism.

I can go into that another time. And the Holy Spirit came upon him at that time. And that's when the miracle started, since he was made Lord of the angels for a little while, Hebrews 2, 9, made under the law, Galatians 4, 4. It appears that he was doing his miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit. And so he was saying, so when he was casting out demons, they were saying, you're doing it by the power of Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.

And he says, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come. So that seems to be what's going on there. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. The other thing is, just to throw this out, the implication is that Satan was bound 2,000 years ago. Because one eschatological... Now, would that binding be just for that instance, or is it until the end of all time? That's the right question.

That's the right question. Because if it's only for that instance, then did Jesus cast any more demons out? Did the apostles do it? Do Christians do it today? So those are the questions that need to be asked, then answered, and it would tell you stuff.

This is what causes us to study theology and study the Bible, is our learning, these questions. Like that. Okay? Right.

Okay. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it.

We always listen to you. Hey, well, praise God. Praise God. Thanks.

Praise God. All right. Okay. We have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Juan from Winston-Salem, North Carolina. You're on the air.

Hey, how are you? I have this question about if God's initial plan was to have paradise on Earth, and then, you know, we had the Apple situation with Adam and Eve, and then everything changed afterwards until this day, but God's promise is eternal. So God's promise of paradise on Earth still stands.

However, given my quest and bones and my humanity and seeing how things are nowadays, isn't that more of a promise for when we pass away, when we die, we will reach that paradise that has been promised to us from the beginning? Heaven is the place of God's dwelling. The third heaven, actually, it's called. The first heaven is the clouds, the wind, things like that. The second heaven is the stars, the moon, the sun. The third heaven is the dwelling place of God.

And the Earth was made for us to inhabit. We're going to be resurrected in glorified bodies. There's going to be a new heaven, a new Earth, 2 Peter 3.10, and then we'll be able to dwell on Earth.

And maybe also visit the Lord in Heaven. I don't know how it's all going to work, but the new heavens and new Earth will be made. We're going to have resurrected bodies, glorified bodies, and as God has designed stuff, that's how it's going to be. Okay. Okay.

I'm looking forward to it. Well, you know, that was my quick question. That was the doubt that I had, that I've been having for quite some time now. Okay. Well, good. Just remember, Paradise Earth is a phrase used by Jehovah's Witnesses, so you just make sure you're not getting mixed up with them and their heresies.

It's a cult. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome very much. God bless.

All right. Let's get on the phone with Kelly from Los Angeles. Kelly, welcome. You are on the air with Matt Schlech. Hey, Matt.

Okay. So my question is, during this upcoming election, I've heard a lot of people mention that they are conservative Christians, which was a new term to me. And so my question is, would God call a Christian to the secular job of politics?

And if he did, how would God even get the glory in such a dirty game of politics? Who said politics is a secular thing? I thought it was secular because they lie a lot.

You have to cheat a lot. That's just from my perception. I was giving you a tough question because all areas of life are under the lordship of Christ. Nothing is ultimately secular. Everything is theological. Everything is under the purview of God. He allows secularists to rebel. But Christians are obligated to get involved in politics, in the news media, in movies, in race car driving, in horse racing, in various things. I don't believe in sports where people beat each other up for other people's entertainment.

I think that's sinful. But we're to get involved with every area of life because it's part of the dominion mandate to take control of the earth for the glory of God. It doesn't mean we oppress people. Not like the left does. The left is full of lying hypocrites, dead men's bones. They lie and then accuse you of lying. They're hypocritical and accuse you of being hypocritical.

That's what the far left does. And it's abominable. It always reminds me of Satan who said to Eve, did God really say? Because lying is doubting the very truth of God because that which is true is what conforms to the mind of God. That's what truth is. And so if anybody were to seek out lying, they're working against the very nature of God himself. And politics is full of lies because people are into self-interests. And this is why it's best to have Christians in office because the Christians who are truly following God aren't going to be taking kickbacks, aren't going to be saying how can they line their pockets and use their power in office to get other people and other governments to do things and fire people. Because that's self-interest. Because the early Christians were the ones who held office in the formation of the states. And if you read the early constitutions of the states, part of them, some of them had the requirement you had to be a Christian in good standing in order to hold public office because they took it so seriously. Because of the temptation to have people come up and say I'll give you money if you pass this law. So if I was in power because I fear my Lord more than man, someone came up to me and said I'll give you money for this, I'd say get away from me.

Get away. I will do what is right according to the law and right according to the word of God and I will not compromise. This is what we need in office. We wouldn't have the problems we have now. We wouldn't have the lying media, liars, lying media and social media. Lying.

Shading news because they don't like the agenda that goes because they're not into truth, they're into lies. Oh yeah. That's right. Okay. All right. Thank you. So it is very possible that a Christian can run for local office and just stand for what's right.

Okay. They should. Christians should be running for office all over the place.

All over the country they should be running for office. Don't let the secularists have it. The secularists get in.

They're going to behave like secularists and then the Christians are going to go what are we going to do? Well get off your lazy rears and do something. Stop waiting for the pre-trib rapture to come and rescue you out. Get out there and move.

Get out there and do something. Petition, make phone calls, write letters, run for office, vote as you're supposed to vote and stop complaining about everything. Christians are supposed to do. We don't take our light and put it under a bushel.

We put it on top of the hill. That's what we do. That's what we're called to do. So me for example, not that I think great I'm not, but I have autism and I'm just trusting God and moving forward and look what's happening. I believe that if you trust God, you really trust God and you go, oh it's going to be tough. I could tell you tough stories.

I got a lot of, lot of tough stories. Just horrible things. But you know what?

This is what it means to be a Christian. And so people are going to go into politics, go into the news media. They're going to be spit on literally and figuratively. They're going to be maligned.

They're going to be mocked. Well, wake up. Pick up your cross daily and follow up for Christ. Stop whining.

Get out there and do it and keep going. That's what we got to do as Christians. We need to start raising warriors instead of wimps. Start raising theologians instead of diaparenians. You know, it's not hammock theology. You know, put me in a hammock and swing me back and forth and comfort me because Jesus is a blonde haired blue-eyed Caucasian surfer dude dressed in a woman's nightgown asking for permission to come into your life.

Give me a stinking break. Manby Pamby weak theology is being taught all over the place. Me, I'll tell you, if I was preaching I'd be saying, what are we going to be doing? We're going to be praying. We're going to be stirring things up. We're going to go.

That's right. And I have three people listening. I've never heard you use such strong language.

That's because you haven't heard me in person without being on the radio. You got it. You got it.

A man named Slick on the radio. Well, Matt, I appreciate you and thank you. Thank you for always answering my questions. You're welcome.

Well, God bless, Kelly. All right. Bye-bye. All right. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these incredibly great messages. Please stay tuned. Be right back.

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Let's get to James from Wake Forest, North Carolina.

James, you're not on the air. How about Jose from Raleigh, North Carolina? Hey, Soy. Hello. How are you doing? I'm doing all right, man. Sorry. I was just thinking of a joke.

Okay. What's up, buddy? Look, I got a question. So I was talking to one of those guys who works here on Saturday or Friday.

How do you call it? Seventh-day Adventist. Yes.

S-D-A. Okay. So, yeah, he asked me what day I worked. So, you know, I'm a Christian, so we work here on Sundays. And he said that I'm a Catholic, because we work here on Sundays. And then I gave him the script to Colossians 2, 16. Very good. He said, nobody goes here, you know, of the festivities, right, or hormones, and then they do the rest.

You're getting a little bit muffled. That was for the Colossians. Uh-huh. Well, he says, Colossians 2, 16 is the place you want to go. And it says, let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink in respect to a festival which is yearly, a new moon which is monthly, and a Sabbath day which is weekly.

So if he's going to say, he's just dismissing it. That was only for the Corinthians or the Colossians. Well, what else is only for the Colossians in there? So it says in Colossians 2, 20, if you have died with Christ, the elementary principles of the world, only for the Colossians 2. So all he's doing is playing favoritism with the text.

That's all he's doing. Now look, the Sabbath is Saturday. The Sabbath is Saturday.

The only commandment in the Ten Commandments that's not reiterated and restated as being applicable in the New Testament is the Sabbath one. The reason is because God rested on the seventh day, Sabbath. Jesus is our rest. He says, come to me and I'll give you rest.

Okay. In Genesis chapter five, the genealogy between Adam and Noah, you take the names of each person, you put it in English, translate it into English, and you get the sentence. It's appointed to mortal men's sorrow. The blessed God will come down. When he dies, it will come, bringing to the despairing, rest. The rest is a prophetic thing of the work of Christ. So because Christ has redeemed us, we are at rest.

We don't need to follow the law. So because of that, you go to Romans 14. You should read Romans 14, one through 12, but especially verse five.

Okay. Romans four, five, which says, Romans 14, five, excuse me. Romans 14, five, which says, one person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike.

Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. That right there refutes the idea that you have to worship on Saturday. Okay.

Yeah. He also say, well, how many Saturdays there is on the Bible that say, well, I mean, I don't understand that question. That's when he got me, because honestly, you know, I take literally one day, right? It's only one day, Saturday. And then, you know, if we, like you say, if we take it spiritually, I understand Jesus is our Sabbath, our Sabbath, our rest.

Right. So he tried to confuse me on, there is more than one Saturday. There's more than one Sabbath. There is.

There's more than one Sabbath. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

There is. All right. Well, thank you so much, man. Okay. Now, uh, cuidado porque eso mentiroso. Okay? Yes, sir.

Yes, sir. Okay. Gracias. Okay. Gracias, over there. All right. We'll see you. Gracias.

All right. Let's get to Tim from Durham, North Carolina. Tim, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, how are you? Uh, let me check. I'm good.

So what do you got? Okay. So, um, I am a Baptist now, um, but I was raised Pentecostal. Okay. And so my thing is, is that I've never really had anyone to really explain the Trinity to me because I've got two different, um, viewpoints that kind of mingle with me about that. And so I have an idea of myself, but, um, but I'm still just not totally confident in my own thought process about that. Do you want me to give you the biblical definition of the Trinity or that what it is biblical or do you want to talk about what?

Okay. This is what the Trinity is. One being one God who's always existed as one God in three distinct and simultaneous persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are three simultaneous, eternally simultaneous and eternally distinct persons. Personhood has to do with self awareness, awareness of others and things like that. We know that the Father's called God and the Son's called God and the Holy Spirit's called God.

One is Pentecostal cults. What they'll say is that there's only one person in the Godhead who takes three forms or three modes or three offices. That's a problem because we know, for example, that the Father has a will, Luke 22 42, and the Son has a will, also Luke 22 42. And we go to John 6 38. Jesus came down to do the will of the Father who sent him.

That means his own will is to do the will of the Father who sent him. They're different. So what we see in this are the manifestations of personhood because each the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, each is called God. Each is called the Creator. Each resurrects. Each one indwells.

But I'm looking at my Trinity chart on my website. Each one is everywhere. Each one is all knowing. Each one sanctifies, gives life, we can have fellowship with, is eternal, has a will, speaks, loves, and searches the heart. So out of this, because there's only one God in all existence, all place, all time, Isaiah 43 10, 44 6, 44 8, 45 5, clearly says that. We know there's only one God but we see the Father speak to the Son, the Son speak to the Father, the Holy Spirit speaks to people, the Father, the Son send the Holy Spirit. So we see differentiation. And we just say one God and three distinct simultaneous persons. That's the correct teaching. Anyone who denies that is a heretic, flat out. Okay. Okay. So when when they were doing their work, did they work together?

I mean, not together, but separately or? Here's where we get a little bit paradoxical. There's a doctrine called the parakerisis. What that means is, in relationship to the ontological Trinity, what does that mean? The ontological Trinity is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each share the same divine essence and nature. They're God.

Right. That's the ontological Trinity, the ontos, the essence and nature. The economic Trinity is the Greek okinomia.

We get economy from that, our economy. And so what that means is that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have different roles. So the Father did not become incarnate, only the Son did. The Holy Spirit did not become incarnate. The Father sent the Son, the Son did not send the Father. The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit does not send them. So we see a differentiation. It's called the economic Trinity.

All right. So the parakerisis is the teaching dealing with the interrelationship and interconnectedness of the Trinitarian members. So we see personhood requires a will.

That's one of the attributes of a person. But we see three persons and the Godhead implies three wills, but because of the parakerisis there's only one. We see that the manifestation is a single will, so God will say in the Old Testament, I want you to blah, blah, blah. And so we see this kind of a thing. What we're experiencing in the revelation of Scripture is the inter-Trinitarian communion and the very nature of God revealed in words. And so what's going to happen is we're going to have some paradoxes.

We're going to have some things where we look at and scratch our head a little bit. Now, nothing is self refuting in it. Nothing is illogical. So I like to say it is paradoxical. How can one God be three persons?

I don't know. Nothing in logic says that you can't have one God and three persons. Not that logic is above God, because logic, ultimately the laws of logic are emanations of the very mind of God. He's a transcendental necessity for the preconditions of intelligibility.

That's a whole other sophisticated topic I talk about sometimes off the air. Right. Well, I kind of had a little bit of problem with the person part until probably a couple years ago when I was in Ephesians chapter 5 and Paul is telling us that we should not grieve the Holy Spirit.

And so you would have to be a person in order to be grieved that an office would not, yes, you wouldn't grieve an office. Right. The Holy Spirit speaks. The Holy Spirit has a will. The Holy Spirit loves.

The Holy Spirit can be grieved. Absolutely. And He teaches. And He teaches.

And sometimes, I don't like how He teaches, because it hurts, but He teaches. Right. That's right. Okay. Well, I really appreciate your time and your insight and it helps a lot. Well, I would suggest that you go to CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G, and go to the Christian doctrine section and look up the articles on the Trinity and just start reading through them. Okay. You understand that? I've written these articles in light of attacks on the Trinity.

So I've been defending the Trinity for 40 years. So there's some stuff there. Okay? Yep. Okay. Okay, man.

God bless, buddy. I appreciate it. Okay. You too. All right. Bye. Bye.

All right. Let's get on with Hal from Pennsylvania. Hey, Hal.

Welcome. You're on the air. Hello.

This is Hal Smith calling. And I'm calling because I appreciate you taking my call. And I know that you get lots of emails and mail at CARM. And I appreciate that Tim from CARM wrote back to me. And I wanted to respond to him, but I don't know his last name or his own email. Just respond back and say to Tim.

It'll get to him. Okay. That's all I got to do. Okay. Makes sense. Is there, are you a Christian?

Are you a Christian? Yeah. Okay.

Because if you want, you can ask me or Tim. Okay. I'll write that.

What's that? Okay. I'll write that. Okay. All right. Well, God bless. Thanks. All right.

Okay. Let's get to Alan from Sacramento because we're almost out of time. Alan, real fast.

What do you got buddy? Are you there? I mean, Alan's not here.

Maybe he's gone. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what folks.

Okay. We've got about 30 seconds left in the show or so, or maybe about a minute. Hey, I just want to ask you to pray for this ministry. Pray for the CARM website. We're going through a transition. We're building it out in a new format, a new look, a new everything. It's taking us months to convert thousands and thousands of articles.

It's just what it takes. Please pray for that and the continued success of that. And we need a prayer ministry as well going. We've got someone in mind for that if they want to do that. And pray for that.

Pray for the financial success of CARM as well because we support missionaries all over the world in Turkey and Africa, in Brazil and in Columbia. And what they're doing is developing websites. The thing about websites is you don't have to be awake talking for them to work. People all over the world check things out.

As an example, CARM, the website C-A-R-M dot O-R-G has been accessed over 100 million times. So praise God for what technology can bring us. Please support us and pray for us. We'd like that. Go to CARM.org forward slash donate would help and pray.

We need that too, especially that. May the Lord bless you by his grace. Be back on here tomorrow and we'll talk to you then. We'll see you. God bless. Bye.