Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick show. Now, we had a little bit of a technical difficulty right before the show, and so we're having to use a different channel, and hopefully I sound okay to you.

If I don't, well, that's what it is. We'll work on the solution later. Anyway, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276.

All right, there's nobody waiting, so I got a question for you out there. One of the things I've been thinking about doing is holding an online conference. Now, next year, next year, next month, on the 25th of October, the CARM ministry, that's Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, will be 25 years old.

I started the website 25 years ago, and we've had over 100 million visitors. And so what I'm asking is, would you be interested, and you can email me at info at CARM dot org. Would you be interested in maybe attending such a conference that I would have online, have different speakers? A lot of people and places are doing that, and we would have to charge a little bit because it costs to put it on, even on air with, not StreamYard, but Zoom, because the level of what you have to do, it does cost.

You've got to really up the technology to do that. So maybe $20, $25 per person, $30 for a couple, things like that. If it would be online, I'd think about having an expert on Mormonism, an expert on Islam, an expert on Roman Catholicism, King James only. Also set it up so that the missionaries can be interviewed a little bit and introduce themselves and what they're doing in different parts of the world. So we've got some ideas, and I'm interested to know if you're interested in something like that. So if you are, you think it sounds good, please just email me at info at CARM dot org and just say, yeah, it sounds good.

You know, it sounds interesting. And I'll get more information about it later because it's something I'm really thinking about, and I think it's a necessary thing. So there you go. Okay. All right.

Four open lines, 877-207-2276. So why don't we get to, let's just see, Andre, get my mouse up there. There we go. Dispensationalism, and I'm watching Keith as he types it in, and covenant theology. I got to talk to Keith about his typing skills. Hey, Andre, buddy, you are on the air.

How you doing, Matt? This is something that came up while me and my buddy was at work. This is a brand new topic for me. I don't know anything about it. I just want to know the difference between dispensationalism and covenant theology.

Okay. So let's talk about covenant theology first. Covenant theology is the idea that God works covenantally. So let's talk about what a covenant is. A covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties. So I'm married and it's a covenant.

I bought a house. I signed a contract. That's a covenant. So there are different forms of covenants, and if you look at the Ten Commandments, you'll see that they follow the pattern of what's called the ancient suzerain vassal treaty pattern of the third millennium B.C. And what that means is that God says, this is who I am, this is what I've done, and here are the stipulations for the covenant, etc. And so each party would have a copy of the covenant, so that's why there's two tablets, one for each party, and it would be ten and ten. All right, so covenant is based upon someone's word, and this reflects the very nature and the word of God because God speaks, the word became flesh, thoughts are among us, what God says is true, it cannot lie, etc. The word for covenant in Latin is testamentum, and we have Old Covenant, New Covenant, Old Testament, New Testament. So God works covenantally. Now a dispensation is to say that God works slightly differently or radically differently in different times.

So there might be the dispensation of works, where you keep your salvation by being good, that would be in the garden before the fall. Then they would say, from that period on, and let's see, I'm looking up, because I did research on this a while back, and there's different divisions that people use about dispensationalism. Sometimes what they'll say is there's seven dispensations and some say three and others. But anyway, so the one I'm looking at here in my notes, innocence, the age of innocence, Adam and Eve as a dispensation of innocence, and the dispensation of conscience from the first sin to the flood, and the dispensation of civil government, the dispensation of promise, then law, then grace, millennial kingdom. Then there's different ones.

There's classical dispensationalism, modified dispensationalism, progressive dispensationalism, and it goes on. So basically a covenant, God works covenantally because he binds himself by his word, and he says this is how I'm going to be with you, etc. Dispensation says that God works with people differently, and there's dispensations in times. There's truth in both of them, but I'm heavily a covenantalist, heavily, because the Bible speaks of God's working covenantally all the time. That's why I believe it.

It makes a lot of sense. My Christian buddy brought it up. He actually gave me a book on covenant theology. I just want to get a different perspective on what those two things actually mean.

That's all it was. That's good. I've studied theology a long time, and I believe that covenant theology answers more questions, and dispensationalism starts problems that don't need to be started. Now there will be dispensationalists who disagree with me and call up, and we can talk. Not that a word appearing in the Bible means it's true or false. You don't find the word dispensation in the Bible, but you do find covenant and covenants and things like that all over.

Let me ask you another question, Matt. What types of, I guess, people would be the opportune word or maybe religion would actually lean more towards dispensationalism than anything else? Well, they're sprinkled throughout Christian churches. Generally speaking, the Calvinist or the Reformed camp is covenantal, and the Armenian camp is a mixture of covenantal and dispensational. And then when you get into more of the semi-Pelagian free will oriented groups, then they become usually very dispensational, and then there's a form of dispensationalism where they say the charismatic gifts have ceased, and then there's some that say they are still around.

And then mostly covenantalists will say the spiritual gifts have stopped, and I'm a covenantalist who says they've continued. So you see there's a bit of a variety in there. I see. Well, I appreciate it, Matt.

Thank you for all the information. I appreciate it. All right, man. God bless, buddy.

Okay. Oh, God bless. That's Andre from Georgia. Let's get on the phones with Bill from Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Bill, you're on the air.

Hey, Matt. I've been spending quite a bit of time with First Timothy trying to get it down packed, and I got to the point of Second Timothy. It was in verse 11 and 12 where it talked about women being pastors and teachers. Well, and I don't really want to get on that, but my question is, I was talking to another pastor, and I was telling him that, and I know I've heard you before that you wouldn't even go to a church that, you know, that allowed that. Right.

Our church, they don't allow a woman to hold that position, but they will allow them to come in and preach and teach. Oh, so they're violating scripture. Okay. Just, they're violating scripture.

Yeah. But he's saying that, the pastor was saying that I'm focusing on something that's really not relevant for it. I should be focused on things like taking care of the home, like when he first said a pastor should be one to have, you know, take care of the home.

I'm focused on something that's not really relevant enough to make a lot of noise about it, and I just wonder how do you feel about that? So I guess you shouldn't really focus on what Paul the Apostle said in Timothy and how he was giving instructions for how the church is to behave. So obviously you shouldn't be focusing on that because you've got more important things to do than do what Paul said needs to be done in the Christian church.

That's what your pastor is telling you. Right. Right. Yeah. So your pastor needs to repent, and he needs to come to truth in this issue of Christian theology.

I'd be glad to talk to him on the phone very carefully and respectfully. But the Bible clearly says a woman is not to teach or exercise authority over a man without being silent, for Adam was first created. So the pulpit on a Sunday morning is the place of authority and teaching.

It is by definition that. To say, well, we're going to have a woman come in and preach and teach, but she's not a pastor, that makes it okay. Well, Paul says he does not allow a woman to do this. And then that's in 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13. The next chapter in 1 Timothy 3, 15, he says he's giving instruction on how we're to behave in the household of God.

So this is what he's saying. And it's not a cultural thing because in 1 Timothy 2, 12 and 13, he ties it to the created order because Adam was first created. I would love, love as in marriage love, love to be able to teach a seminar on this to Christian men and Christian women with elders sitting in the congregation, and teaching them and going through this biblically and show what the responsibility of men is in the church and in the world and the women's place, what their responsibilities are as well and interrelate them.

I would love to do that biblically, but it won't happen. Because people don't want me to teach the biblical position of men and women in marriage and in the church and in the community and in the world because they're wetting their finger, putting it up into the wind, the secular wind, and seeing which way it blows. And they want to make sure they don't offend the people in the congregation because you know what?

You've got to listen to what they say. We don't want to offend them. And so the weakening of the gospel and the truth of God's word occurs and it flows downhill from there. Yeah, I'd love to be able to teach a seminar on that, but it won't happen. But he said that, you know, they also spoke up and said, you know, we should focus more on the souls of the people, you know. Well, he's saying focus more on this. So we should, okay, what about there's a lying, a person who's committing adultery, let's say in your church, and you bring it up to the pastor and he says, well, you should focus not on that. You should focus more on people's souls.

Well, what? It's not an issue of focusing more on. It's a wrong attitude. Because what's the most thing you should focus on?

Give me the thing. Well, I can tell you what they are from the scriptures. Love God and love your neighbor. Well, if you love God, doesn't it mean to love his truth and love his word?

With all your mind it says. Okay, so why is the pastor then poo-pooing this teaching that's required? I just got to say this.

I just got to say this. You know, men are the ones responsible in the church. Women have their responsibility also, but they're the ones, men are the ones who are responsible. Think of the men as a captain of a ship. The pastor is supposed to be a male and the elders are supposed to be males, period.

That's what it says. And I give a lot of evidence for that and I've written on this. When Adam and Eve sinned, she sinned first, she gave the fruit to Adam and then he partook of it. But sin entered the world through Adam, Romans 5-12, not through her because he was the head, he was the representative. And when the pre-incarnate Christ came to them after they were hiding, he said to the man, where are you? He didn't address them both.

He started off with a man. And that's important. Why don't you hold on if you want. We're going to hang up and I'll get back after the break here. Hey folks, we have two open lines, 877-207-2276. Be right back. Welcome back, everyone.

We have two open lines, 877-207-2276. Bill, are you still there? Yes. So, Matt, what do you do in a situation like this? When I mean situation, you have a church that the pastor disregards, and he knows, you know, scripture, but still it's not important. Should you stay and be a light, you know, and continue having discussions, if you look for another place of worship?

This is what you do. You gather information for the importance, scriptural importance, of the position. And I've got information on karma, I can help you put it together. You can read up on women in ministry. You should go to the karma and look up should women be pastors and elders. You can read through the information, find the scriptures, you can go through, make up your own, you know, little whatever it is you've got to take, scriptures and the whole bit. And then you go to the pastor who said this.

You go to him first. And you say, here's what the Bible says, and you're allowing something that seems to be unbiblical, and having a woman be in a place of teaching authority in the church. And then ask him, can you please, as 1 Peter 3.15 says, give a reason for the faith that lies within you. You have this position inside of Christianity, can you please give me a biblical reason?

Biblical reason, that's what I'm asking. Now, if he says, no, I won't do it, or if he says, well, I really don't care what the answer is, or if he comes back later and says, it doesn't matter, I'm still going to do what I want to do, then you go to the elders. And if the elders won't comply, you take it to the church, and then go find another church. So I'm the kind of guy who will, in this case, I would go to the pastor and say, this is what it says, what do you think? And if he said, well, I'm not going to do anything, okay, fine, just go to the elders first. Elders, you need to bring this to the pastor.

If the elders don't want to do it, you've done what's necessary. Me, I'm the kind of guy that will print up information and go to the church and pass it out to people. And they'll say, get out of here, and you say, okay, fine.

And it's dust your feet off as you're going. I've done this before with churches, where I've gone to their churches and passed out literature in front of a women's church here in Boise, and they called the police on me, as a matter of fact, the local church. Or the women pastors at issue with this, who, oh, yeah. During the snow, during the very great cold, I was out there passing out literature, they called the cops on me and wouldn't even come out and make sure I was okay, you know, in the cold, passing out stuff. Because I went to the elders and went to them first, because it was an elder contact thing first. And they said they would meet with me to discuss this issue, and then they went back on their word. And I said, okay, I'll go to the church then. And they said, are you threatening us?

It's like, oh, my goodness. This is the attitude that the Christians had towards someone who wanted them to give a biblical defense for their position of what they're doing. And then they said, oh, you're threatening us? I said, no, I'm not.

I'm just going to go out in front of the body of Christ, which is what the Bible says to do. I passed out literature. They called the police on me. The cops said, no big deal, you're just doing whatever you've got to do. And that was it.

Yeah. Well, I definitely do that. I appreciate it.

I didn't get me on my heart, so I was trying to figure out what action I should take. But I appreciate your time, man. Good for you, man. Let me know what happens, okay? All right. Thanks, man.

All right. Hey, folks, before we get on this caller, I just want to say this, that the church needs to be strong. And the reason it needs to be strong is because it's living in a secular world. And secularism is a pressure that is constant upon the church. And it is the men that God has ordained to be the pastors and the elders and the deacons within the church. Now, you can argue with me all you want, but that's what the Scriptures teach.

It's not just my interpretation. It's what the Scripture teaches. And I'd be glad to debate anybody on it. We'll just arrange a nice debate, okay? But here's the thing.

Here's the thing. If we don't obey God in these little inconveniences, then why should he trust us with greater truths? If we're going to, in the body of Christ, say, well, it's okay for women to be pastors and elders, it's okay. When the Bible says they're not to be in that place of teaching authority, it says it because Adam was first created.

It's a created order issue. It's not cultural. And if people were to compromise in that, how can we trust them to not compromise in other areas? It's the men who need to stand strong. It's the men who need to stand strong in the Word of God and say, I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.

That's what we men are supposed to do. That's what I do on the radio. That's what I've done in front of churches. I've called elders out. Well, I can't remember doing this.

Yes, I have. I've called elders out on issues. And I'm not saying I'm the great example. I'm just saying we as men, Christian men, need to study the Word of God. Stand up for the truth and kneel before our Lord and not before society. Don't kneel before the political correctness. Don't kneel before your wife just wants you to get along and be nice. Don't make waves.

Who cares about that? Because you're going to face God. What does God say? See, God says give a reason and make a defense for the faith.

And it means in the church and outside the church as well. Stand up for the truth. Do it lovingly. Do it patiently. Do it respectfully.

But stand up for the truth. Now, if any of you want me to come out and teach on this, I'd be glad to. We've got a nice seminar on a theology of marriage, the theology of the pastorate. And we can combine them because they're necessary.

And if you begin both with the doctrine of the Trinity, believe it or not. That's what needs to happen. We have three open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Derek from Los Angeles, you are on the air.

Hey, Mr. Schlick, thank you for taking my call. I'll be really quick. I wanted to tackle a central doctrinal position that Hebrew Israelites take all the time. If I may, I would like to concisely articulate their position to you, give you their proof text, and then see what you have to say. Okay.

Okay. So central to most Hebrew Israelite camps out there is their eschatological view that during the millennial reign, those who are actually Israelites are going to be subjugating strangers of the world almost in a slave-like manner. And a proof text that they often go to is Isaiah 61. And if we could go to Isaiah 61 verses 5 through 7, that's really one of the central proof texts that they go to.

And I myself am post-mil, so I have a very different view of the eschaton than they do. But my question to you, Mr. Schlick, is how would you interpret what is going on in Isaiah 61 verses 5 through 7? Is this something that has already occurred?

Is this something that is going to happen later? And what is this going to look like? Well, it says in Isaiah 61, the Spirit of the Lord is upon me. He has anointed me.

That was messianic, referring to Christ. The crown of the favorable year of the Lord to grant those who mourn in Zion a garland of ashes. Then when they rebuild the ancient ruins, they will raise up the former devastations and they will repair the ruined cities, desolations of many generations. Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks. And foreigners will be your farmers and your vine dressers. You'll be called the priests of the Lord. You'll be spoken of as miniatures of our God.

You'll eat the wealth of nations. So if I were talking to a BHI person, I'd say, can we read the context? Just what we did. And then I'd say, hey, after the break we'll continue.

So just hold on. Hey folks, we have two open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Welcome back everybody. Derek, are you still there? I am. Thank you.

So I did a little bit of search during the break, just reading up on it a little bit. BHI has a habit of taking any verse that can be interpreted in any way to suit their theological needs. The first several verses, verse 3, are messianic and Christ refers to them. But then it says in verse 4, then they will rebuild the ancient ruins. I'd ask a BHI person, who's the they who will rebuild what ancient ruins? If they want to say that they're the true Jews because they're from Africa, does the ruins or do the ruins reside there? And if so, are they going to rebuild what's in Africa? Is it in Egypt or where?

I mean, I would just ask specific questions. They will raise up the former devastations. They will repair the ruined cities. What ruined cities are they going to repair? I mean, Chicago? Detroit? Where are they going to repair?

Jerusalem? What is it that they're going to do? Now, they're going to be saying, as you were saying, in the millennium that they're going to do this.

Now, you're post-Mille, I'm all-Mille. I think between us, I don't know about you, but I could easily destroy. Sorry, no offense meant everybody.

I could easily destroy or put a big kink in the idea of a literal 1,000-year reign. That's another opportunity there to kind of undermine their presuppositions. But I'm just looking. It says, Strangels will stand and pasture your flocks. Are these guys having flocks? Well, obviously, no.

Then what's going on? It seems to be that what's going on here is that Gentiles are going to be the one who's going to be in their land and do what the Jews are supposed to be doing, and the foreigners will be your farmers and vinedressers, but you will be called the priests of the Lord. You'll be called the Jews, and you'll be spoken of as ministers of our God. If the BHI people are going to be the ministers, are they also priests? Are they farmers?

What cities are they going to rebuild? I would just start asking the specifics. What happens is, whenever you do this kind of a thing, they start stubbing their toes. They start running aground on things because things aren't going to add up.

The more information they give, the more you're going to find out that they have problems. This is not about the racist BHI, Black, Hebrew, Israelite movement, which I consider to be very racist. Just look at the context. It seems to be a prophetic thing about the Gentiles doing what the Jews are supposed to be doing later on, and the BHI people would say that they're the true Jews.

So then, if they're the true Jews, why is it the Gentiles or the strangers are going to be doing this? So it just doesn't make sense what they're going to be saying out of that. You with me? Okay. I'm with you.

I'm with you. Thank you for your time. All right, man. Well, God bless. Okay. All right. Thanks. Bye. Okay, let's get to John from New Jersey. John, welcome.

You're on the air. Yeah, I have a quick question. What's the difference between a Roman Catholic and, because I have a buddy of mine who's Byzantine Catholic, and he says, well, we're not, I'm not Roman Catholic, so what's the difference? Wow, I don't know.

I wish I knew off the top of my head, but I don't. I've not studied that issue. So what are the, let's see, Byzantine theology. Let's see. I'm trying to see if I can find something that summarizes stuff, but no, I haven't studied it. Just haven't. I'll just tell you the truth. I haven't. Well, have you heard of it, though?

Oh, yeah. There's all kinds of sub-sources and sub-groups and things like that within different Catholic-ish kind of movements. There's the Eastern Orthodox, which they say is the true church, and the Roman Catholic Church says, no, they're the true church, and 1054 over the filioque era issue, they separated. And then there's subdivisions within Catholicism and subdivisions within Eastern Orthodoxy. So there's Greek Orthodoxy, for example. And then there's Byzantine Catholic theology. So it's like, okay. When I do articles on them, I just sit around and study them for days and days until I get what they're teaching. But I've not had to study the Byzantine ones. So my apologies. Ask him to come on the air and explain what it is, what their particulars are.

I think it'd be fun. Okay. No problem.

And then I can say, well, I'll have a minute. Appreciate it. Okay, buddy. Sorry I didn't have a good answer for you. All right. Okay.

Oh, sorry about that. Let's get to Demetrius from Virginia. Demetrius, welcome.

You're on the air. Hey, thanks, man. How's it going, buddy? It's going, man.

It's going. Good. I had a question.

I'm talking to a friend of mine who is considering leaving his wife. Okay. My question is, so she has been married before.

Okay. So with that, she's had a covenant with another individual. I hold the permanence beyond marriage. So I feel like her covenant with her ex-husband still stands. Is that correct?

No. Was still valid before God? It's been broken. Marriage covenants.

Is it broken? Yeah, marriage covenants. A covenant has, there are different kinds of covenants. So I'm married, for example. The covenant is broken when either my wife and I die. Either one of us.

Okay. Then we're no longer married. A covenant ends at that point. It's a conditional covenant. There's also a conditional covenant aspect in Matthew 7, 14 or 17, where Jesus says, you can't divorce except for sexual immorality, which is adultery. And in Matthew, excuse me, 1 Corinthians 7, 14, it talks about if an unbelieving spouse goes, let him go.

You're not under obligation at that point. So it seems to be that the two exceptions to divorce is abandonment out of 2 Corinthians, I'll get my notes here, 2 Corinthians 7, 15 and Matthew 19, 9 of the issue of immorality, pornosexual immorality. So if one person, one of the partners in the marriage, commits adultery or abandons the other, then the other person is free to divorce, not necessarily obligated to. So God divorced Israel.

He issued a writ of divorce for Israel. And I think it's down to Jeremiah 17, 3. Let me see if I'm right. And nope, I'm wrong. Anyway, I get 13. Let me look and see. Go back to this.

Or maybe it's 8, 3. I'm trying to remember. I got all these verses on my head.

So I'm going to get them all mixed up. No, I can't find it. No big deal. So anyway, the thing is that God did issue a writ of divorce to Israel for their spiritual adultery. And so, actually it's Jeremiah 3, 1.

Okay? He did that. So how was that writ enforced? Like, because God didn't abandon Israel, right? He came back. Is that correct? Yeah, they repented and they came back. But this, of course, is typological. But here's the thing. When a man and a woman get divorced, even if it's unbiblical, they really have divorced. It really is a divorce. And they can be guilty.

Now think about this. If a man divorces his wife, except for the reason of their morality, and he marries another, and he's committing adultery. Whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman, commits adultery, Matthew 19, 9. So he's saying divorce it. So that means if you divorce your wife for another reason, and you marry somebody else, then you're committing adultery. He's not saying he doesn't recognize the divorce, because he calls it a divorce.

You see? So it's not so easy just to wade through, but this man, who's married to this woman, is married. He needs to stay with her. Okay. That's what he needs to do.

Okay. And he needs to man up, and if he doesn't love his wife, that's just too bad. Open the Bible and read what biblical love is.

Biblical love is a decision and a commitment to do what is right, even though you don't feel like it, in the best interests, sacrificial interests of somebody else. And that's what true love is. Okay, so. Go ahead. Right.

And that's what I've been trying to teach him, trying to get him to see. Now, I know in the Bible it also speaks that, I want to say in Galatians, I didn't do my research before calling, but it says that there is, that those who commit adultery will not inherit the kingdom. Yeah. Is that saying that you could lose your salvation because of this, or? No, you can't lose your salvation.

Okay. I don't think so. You can't lose your salvation.

That's another topic. But what he's talking about there, you know, for example, 1 Corinthians 6, 9, and that's often the verse that people go to about these kinds of things. It says, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

Do not be deceived. These are fornicators. And that's, you know, the word pornoi. So it's sexually immoral, okay? The fornicators, adulterers, idolaters, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, and rebelers, they're not going to inherit the kingdom of God.

So what he's talking about is, these are those who practice those things. So if this man is married to this woman, and he's not committing adultery, but the previous marriage was an unbiblical divorce, well then, he's still married now. And that's it, just let the blood of Christ cleanse, move forward from where you are right now, move forward.

Because you don't want to do a divorce with this wife and try and get back with another. It just gets, it's just not what the Bible says. Oh, we're going to break, okay? Hey folks, we've got a break coming up.

We have three open lines. Give me a call. 877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show, Demetrius, which I love that name.

It just sounds so cool. Are you still there? I'm still here, brother. All right, man. All right, so, go ahead. I was going to say, so while the divorce has not been finalized, my friend is in a relationship with someone else who is also, you know, confessing to be a Christian as well.

Okay, wow. So, you know, and so there is adultery there, and so just, I just want to be clear. What is the inheritance that he's missing out on if he continues to practice this adultery? If he's continued to practice this adultery, then it's a sign he's not safe to begin with. 1 John 2.19, they went out from us because they never were of us.

If they had been of us, they would have remained. That's 1 John 2.19. And in 1 John 2.4, okay, the same chapter, if you say you know him and don't keep his commandments, the truth is not in you and you're a liar.

So this man is saying he's a Christian, and yet he lives as though he's not a Christian. Then as James 2, 14-26 says, you know, you show me your faith, I'll show you my faith, verse 18. Well, he's not showing you your faith.

He's showing you his lack of regeneration. He's showing you his desire to sin over the truth of God's word. And what I would do at that point is point it out to him, and you sound just like the right guy to do it in a loving way, point out to him that a judgment of God is upon him, and that if he does not repent of this, if he's a true Christian, truly regenerate, God may very well kill him.

At 1 Corinthians 5, it talks about that, where a believer was having relations with his father's wife and deliver him over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh. And if he's not a true believer, then the judgment of God will come upon him for a hardness of his heart, Romans chapter 1, verses 18 and following. And either way, he'll be judged.

He needs to repent of his sin and start doing this right before God. And you call him man to man. I think men need to have men talk to him, stare him in the face, point a finger at him, and tell him the truth.

And that's how it works. We need that man talk. And so that's what I would do, buddy. For some reason, you're the man to do it.

I could just tell, okay? So just be truthful with him. Call him the repentance, and if he doesn't repent, just say, okay, then I'll be praying for you that God will be gentle upon you in your rebellion.

When I shared the scriptures with him, he was saying that he didn't know that, you know, all that it caused, as far as being married, I was saying that, you know, your marriage is, you know, just like Christ's relationship with the church. And you should be ready to lay down your life for your wife. That's right. When things are hard, you say for better or for worse, to death do you part. That's right.

But you're trying to leave for, you know, unjustified reasons. That's right. And I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

Good for you. But now you know. So, so yeah, so it sounds like I need to press him a little bit more. Yeah, you do. I don't know. He needs to make a choice.

That's right. And if he's still married to this, to his wife, which, you know, that's what marriage is, wife, and he's seeing another woman, then he's breaking the covenant responsibility. You know, I'll tell you something. My wife and I, we have our problems every now and then.

And we just do. I've been married 34 years-ish, but I'll never go out on her. I'm never going to go see anybody else. It's just never going to happen.

Never, ever. Because I'm committed to her just as much as I'm committed to my Lord, whether I like it or not. This is the fact. And this is the attitude we have to have as men and women need to have as women. Because it's the Lord Jesus whom we serve. Who are we serving? Flesh or Christ?

And we don't do it perfectly when we serve Christ, but that's the, that's the whole point we're supposed to be doing, serving him. Tell that guy that, okay? Amen. Thanks, man. Appreciate you.

Hey, appreciate you too. God bless. All right.

All right. Well, that's my kind of guy, man. I like that.

Yep. Good for him. Good for him.

Praise God. Let's get to Oliver from Maine. Oliver, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt. How's it going?

It's going. What do you got, buddy? Nice to meet you. Hey, so I got a question for you on Romans 10. I was just talking to my dad about this recently.

I thought I'd give you a call to get your opinion. It reads, I'm sure you, you know, but it reads, if you confess to the mouth of Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised you from the dead, you will be saved. So my question is, from what it sounds like to be saved, part of what you have to do is you have to confess to the mouth of Jesus.

Now, it's not some magic incantation. I know that it's like, Well, let's look at the text before you get too far. Does it say that that's what you have to do to be saved?

This is an issue of logic. Does it say in order to be saved, you must do this? It doesn't say that. It says, if you confess, you'll be saved. If you confess and you believe, you'll be saved. What if it is said, if you confess and believe and read your Bible, you'll be saved?

Well, all those, you know, it's true. Reading the Bible isn't what gets you saved. Do you see the point? Yeah.

Okay. So what is the, because I know Ephesians 2, my thought was this is always just a contradiction, sort of. Because Ephesians 2, 8 through 9 says, For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. Is that the firm, kind of like the foundation, like that is truly what you're saved by, by faith in Christ?

It's the instrumental means. It is the means by which the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, Philippians 3, 9, Romans 5, 1, Romans 3, 28. So this is what happens, is that we're, when it says in Ephesians 2, 8, you know, By grace through faith you have been saved. By God's grace, his unmerited, it's our unmerited.

We don't do anything at all. It's God's kindness out of his, kindness of his own hearts, unmerited on our part. He just gives to us. And the instrument of the blessing is faith, faith in Christ. Because faith is only as good as who you put it in.

And so what Paul's saying here in Romans 10, 9, and 10, He's just giving a generic statement, if you can touch it in your mouth and believe in your heart. Well you can only do that, basically, or to salute us. If we're regenerated, we could talk about that some other time. But what if someone's mute? What if they're mute and they can't speak?

True. They can't be saved? What if they're in a hospital and they literally have tubes down their throat for breathing?

And they've got minutes to live. And can they confess? No, they can't do it. So this isn't, like you said, a magic formula kind of a thing. It's not that you have to do it in that literal sense. He's talking about this issue of the confession and the belief in Christ. If you do this, you confess, you believe, and you trust, you're going to be saved. It's a generic kind of a statement. Okay. So I'm trying to kind of think of a verse, because my grandfather, he doesn't know the Lord.

He just got diagnosed with cancer in his esophagus. So I'm going to go and reach out to him sometime this weekend. I'm just trying to think of something like a straightforward verse that would be best, that wouldn't really confuse him or anything on how you are saved. Should I just say, like, you know, you're saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

If you believe that Jesus is the Lord and that he's the Lord of your life, you'll be saved. Would that be fine to say something like that? Is there a verse I could use that would be very simple? God can use different things. I could say something really doctrinally accurate to him, and it wouldn't work.

And you could say something that's not doctrinally pure, but it would work. God anoints. God opens the heart. So the general gist is, you know, you ask him. What I would do is ask him, you know, we're all going to die.

Where are you going to go? Just get that conversation going. You know, well, I hope I'll be, you know, I've been a good person. I've been this and that. You know, if he's an atheist, you know, that's a different topic. But generally people believe in God and think because of their insincerity that they've been pretty good compared to others. And I'll say, well, that's not the standard, your neighbor's not the standard of righteousness, God is.

How have you been compared to him? And then that's when it gets a little more personal. And if he says, no, I don't want to talk about it, say, oh, okay, all right.

I'll be back tomorrow or the next week. You talk about it again, little by little. But you have to get to the point of he's going to realize he's a sinner, that he's offended God, just as you have. You have the same need as Jesus Christ, who's God in flesh, died on the cross, rose from the dead. And that resurrection proves that what he said was true. And he says you've got to trust in him.

And just say that. You've got to trust in Jesus. You've got to receive him. That's John 1-12. And you've got to, you know, just confess that he's your Lord and Savior. You know, Romans 10, 9 and 10. And, you know, he's saved by grace, Ephesians 2-8.

You don't have to say the references or quote the exact verses, but it's the same thing. Just get that to him. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. All right, man.

Let me know what happens, okay? Sure will. Thanks. All right, Benny. Thank you. God bless.

All right. Let's get to Rod from California. Rod, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi, Matt. Hi. We have a mutual friend in Tony Grelais. Yeah, Tony's a good guy. Yeah, he is.

Tony is a good guy. Tell him I said hi. So I had… Huh? Tell him I said hi sometime, you know. Oh, I will. I will tell him you said hi. Okay.

So I've got, gosh, I've got so many things going through my head. I had called in on a show you were doing. You were helping guys defend the faith against the Muslim faith. And I had called in with a question because I have a little bit of training with Bonson and Van Til, and I had asked if you had ever done an apologetic with a Muslim based on the preconditions of intelligibility. And you said that you hadn't, but it was an interesting topic to you because I watched a couple of your videos, or I think I watched one where you did that, the preconditions of intelligibility with atheists, atheistic debate.

Right. And so I was just kind of wondering if you'd had done any more with that or if you had thought about that. Not that particular thing in regards to the God of Islam, but I am interested lately in a topic about Islam that I want to get into and study more.

And, where is that? Tanzi. Tanzi, and it's the teaching of the unknowability of Allah.

He's so completely different. Well, there are certain logical problems with that, and so I'm going to be thinking about this and going through that. There's also an issue I'm thinking about recently about, this is hard to describe because I haven't learned how to articulate it yet, but the idea of Allah being a single person who existed forever, and any theological perspective that's non-Trinitarian, how do you have an eternal being of one person have any aspect of fellowship or love or morality? Because you can't have those attributes if you're just one person. Yes, that's fantastic.

See, I was thinking about that exact thing. Because they have a tendency to go, oh well that's just ridiculous, and that God would love himself, and then they bring up the idea that, so God hates sin, does that mean that God hated himself in the Trinity? And to me that's a logical fallacy, if that's the correct term, because just because you have one, they're not equal, those emotions are not equal. So, hate is something that happens when the law of God or the character of God is sinned against, that's what God hates, and God would never sin against himself. God hates sinners. Yes, there's no place for hate in the Godhead because there would be no actionable offense. Yes, but then we have to get into what's called counterfactuals, abstractions, and concepts, and emergent properties, and we're out of time, but these are other things that relate to it.

I'd like to talk to a sophisticated Muslim about these issues, but I really can't find any of them. Right, I think that would be a fantastic conversation. Stay with me.

Hey, you've got to go buddy, we're out of time now, okay? Sorry about that. Alright, Jan from Virginia, woman preaching question, one of my favorite topics. Can you call back on Monday, please, Jan, so that we can talk about it. Hey everybody, God bless, have a great weekend.