Matt Slick Live

A previously recorded Matt Slick Show. It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm.org.

When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live! Francis, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hey everyone, how you doing out there? It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. Hey, why don't you give me a call?

We have five open lines, 877-207-2276. And let's see, wow, that's interesting how Facebook is changing things. All right, no big deal.

Yeah, that reminds me, you know, a lot of conservatives are being penalized on Facebook. And so far, you know, I haven't been affected, at least very much. But we are hoping as Christians, and we're praying for the furthering of the Gospel, which is something we've been thinking about recently, and the Gospel message, and getting it out there, and preaching and teaching. It's what we need to do as Christians, and you know, it's just powerful stuff, the Gospel message. So, we're going to get to the callers when they come in.

We have five open lines, but 877-207-2276. And do you know what the Gospel is? Could you, let's just say, could you provide the Gospel? Let's just say that someone had two minutes to live, and you had to give that person the Gospel. What would you say? Would you say, well, you had to repent and believe, you had to get baptized, you've got to go to church, read your Bible, and so we've got two minutes, better hurry up. And what if you were a Church of Christ person who teaches that baptism is a requirement for salvation, and the person was, say, in a car accident, and you're on the scene, and the person is bleeding out, unfortunately, is what's happening, and they look into your eyes and they say, what do I do? I want to go to heaven.

What do I do? Tell me how to come to be a Christian. If you're a Church of Christ person, you just say, you're out of luck, buddy. Sorry. You know, you've got to be baptized. You can't be baptized, so it's useless to tell you about the saving work of Jesus that you received by faith, because he won't do any good, because you've got to get dunked in water, and you can't. So, you're just out of luck. See, I've got to go to the store, bye. I mean, how would that be, you know?

And that would mean, then, that people who teach that would not be justified by faith, would they? Yeah, well, I've got a bit of debate coming up on this issue on something else. What is it?

I forgot. I'll tell you about it later when it gets close, about a week or two out. Somebody wants to debate me. He called up on the radio and challenged me to debate. I said, okay, let's do it. Let's do it. I think it's on total depravity.

That's what it was. He wants to debate me on total depravity, which is a mistake on his part, because that's very biblical, and I can show it from the scriptures. So, hey, look, give me a call. 877-207-2276.

Five open lines. Give me a call. What often happens is, during the beginning of the show, a few callers. Later in the show, we have too many. So, I want you to balance it out. So, what is that Gospel message?

I'll tell you what, let's talk about that a little bit. What is the Gospel message? The Gospel in Greek is called the euangelia. That's the word, the euangelia, the good news.

What is the good news? Well, the good news is that you do not have to do anything to go to heaven. You don't have to keep any good works. You don't have to get baptized.

You don't have to get circumcised. You don't have to go to your church to confess your sins to a priest. You don't have to take sacraments. You don't have to try and keep yourself right with God in any way, shape, or form in order to go to heaven. See, that's not good news.

That's works. The good news is that Jesus did it all. That Jesus bore our sin in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2.24, and that, by faith, we can be made right with God.

By trusting in what Christ did, by asking, by receiving Christ, by receiving Jesus, saying, Lord, forgive me of my sins. I'm a sinner and just ask that you be merciful to me. I've lied. I've stolen. I've cheated.

I've done things. And the sin that's upon me weighs upon my heart. And I know that if I were to die, I'd face you in judgment.

And I want to be cleansed. So, Lord Jesus, forgive me. I trust in you. Trust in your sacrifice on that cross, your death, your burial, and your resurrection.

See, that's what it is. That's the gospel. And for those of you who might be driving, who might be wondering about that gospel, you want to know what's going to happen if you were to die tonight.

Would you go to heaven or hell? If you don't know, then reach out to Christ. Ask Jesus to forgive you of all of your sins. Pray to him. Seek him. Ask Jesus to do everything that you could not because he's God in flesh. And if you deny him and deny that resurrection, then you'll enter eternity without him. You'll be there on your own. Your own defense attorney facing the infinitely holy God who knows all the loopholes, all the rules, and you won't have a chance anymore than an ice cube in a fire. So that's what you need.

You need Jesus Christ and him crucified. All right. We have three open lines. 877-207-2276. Let's get on the line with Bill from Maryland. Bill, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, thanks, Matt. Can you hear me?

Yes, I can. Okay. A first time caller and just want to say I love your show. Well, thank you.

I like it too. Hey, Matt, I have a question. And it has to do with the atonement and the gospel. Okay. Okay.

And the question kind of links them together. I did my own study on the atonement. And I believe I want to make sure I get my wording right.

I believe Jesus only bore the sins that we elect on the cross. Would you say that's correct? That's what I hold to. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I've done my own study and listened to a lot of debate.

I had listened to your debate with Jesse Murrell, I believe, and kind of, you know, learned a lot from that. And I see it the same way you do. Now, so my question is, when when I share the gospel with someone, you know, I, and I kind of looked up your one of your articles where, you know, you bring them under the law of God, and then you tell them about God, and he is a righteous and just God and must judge them. And then when you share the gospel with them, and you know, I've caught myself doing this and many others, you know, is it wrong to say that Jesus bore that person's sin on the cross?

Because if they never actually do get saved, then he actually didn't bear their sin. Is that correct? Right. That's correct. So what I do is I just say Jesus died for sinners.

That's all I say. Oh, okay. Just say he died for sinners, which is true.

And if you want to have forgiveness and trust in Christ, no problem. Right. It's all correct.

It's all true. And no big deal. Okay.

Okay. It sounds like I was kind of overthinking it. But, you know, I just want to make sure I have my wording right, you know, when I'm witnessing to others.

No, you're correct. And what you're doing is you're applying the truth. You know, when people say Jesus loves you, I don't know if Jesus loves them. And that's something that I've wrestled with talking about also on the air because people, you know, John 3 16, God's love the world, the word world there, I believe, and I believe I can make a good case for it. This means all the nations, because Matthew 15 24, Jesus was sent only to Israel. He wasn't sent to the whole world.

So the word world has to be in all the nations, all the groups. Well, you know, in Psalm 5, 5, Psalm 11, 5, God hates all those who do iniquity. So when I say God loves you, I don't say that because I don't know if God does. And I can say he loves you in a generic sense that he provides sunshine and rain.

That's fine. I don't know if he loves you in a salvific way. And, you know, you, but I mean people. So what I just do is I just say, look, the Bible said that Jesus bore our sins in his body of the cross. The Bible says, I'm quoting it, he himself bore our sins in his body of the cross. I said, and God loves, he's a God of love.

And if you want to be forgiven of your sins, just trust in Christ. And that's it. That's it.

So an Armenian sitting with me could witness and have no problem with that. So that's how I handle it. Not a problem. All right. Okay. Well, very good.

That's all I had, Matt. Okay, man. Well, God bless.

Yes, sir. Thank you very much. God bless you. Okay. You too. God bless. Thanks.

All right. That was Bill from Maryland. And let's get to Connie from Virginia. Hey, Connie, welcome here on the air. Hey, thank you so much, Matt, for taking my call. Listen, I grew up attending predominantly African American churches.

Okay. And I observe believer shouting, doing the shouting dance. I've seen the wigs fly off. I've seen chairs knocked over.

I've seen all of it. And so some people believe that shouting is a gift of the Spirit, like the Holy Spirit fell and everybody started shouting. And then I've been doing some research that some think it comes from Africa. And it's more like the African ring dance, which is more was not the Holy Spirit. But I would guess my question is, I want to make sure that shouting in church is biblical.

Sure it is. Okay, 27 six, and now my head will be lifted up above my enemies around me and I will offer in his tent sacrifices with shouts of joy. I will sing. Yes, I will sing praises to the Lord. And if I were to go to Psalm 100, let's see if I remember this correctly, shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth serve the Lord with gladness.

So there's places where it's right to shout. That's one of the things I like about the black community is that exuberance and that showness that I don't mean in a bad way, you know, the show we know. But I remember when seminary I had a black friend and he said, that's good, come to my church.

I go, great. And I remember my first impression was negative. Well, no, my first impression was good, because everybody was so welcoming and they were loving and it was great. I had a good time. But I mean, when the pastor walked out, everybody stood up and started applauding. And I didn't like that. I thought, you don't applaud for this guy.

You know, and then and I talked to my friend about it. He says, Oh, no, man, you got it all wrong. You're applauding for the man who's bringing the word of God.

I went, okay. So I stood up and started clapping, you know, I get it. And so I love that. And, you know, some white churches, let's just say, when they get excited, they raise their hand up to their elbow level.

And then you're done. But shouting is good. Shout for joy. Psalm 32 11.

Be glad in the Lord and rejoice you up, you righteous ones, and shout for joy, all you who are upright in heart. Yeah, that'd be great. All right. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. You're welcome so much. May the Lord bless you. Okay. Take care. Sure.

All right. Hey, folks, you have four open lines. If you want to give me a call, 877-207-2276. Let's get to Kurt from Des Moines, Iowa. Kurt, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah. Hello. Thank you. This is the first time that I've called and I love your show. Oh, good. And I just hope you can keep doing it. By God's grace, you know?

Yeah. So my question is, what resources would you recommend for old Earth, still being a believer, but, you know, I have a little bit of background in answers in Genesis and young Earth resources with Ken Ham. And I'm just wanting to balance that out and learn more about another you and wondering what you recommend.

Well, what I do when I research stuff like that, I just go on the web and I'll just type in old Earth evidence. And then what you'll hear about are, what is it? There's a dating method. So what do you know?

I can't remember. They'll talk about, we got a break coming up, and they'll talk about the age of the Earth. And then they'll talk about starlight. They'll talk about various things.

But the creationists have good responses to that stuff. But hey, hold on. We got a break. Hey, folks, we'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call.

Four open lines, 877-207-2276. Be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Kurt, are you still there?

I am. All right. So I was going to say, you know, just do Google research. And so reasons.org is an old Earth Christian-based, a Christian-based group that holds to old Earth. And then creation.com is a Christian-based that holds to a young Earth. And you can check out the evidences there. And then you might want to go to KHOUSE.org. And it's Chuck Missler. And see if you can find some of the stuff he's taught on the issue of, there's some research out there on, I don't remember this, relativism and how the Earth is young and the universe can be old if it's stretching and relative. It gets some weird stuff. And there's some talk about that.

Yeah. And then there's Dr. Jason Lyle, Understanding Genesis is a good book. And Starlight in Time by Ken Ham.

There's a John C. Lennox, Seven Days to Divide the World. So these are books that I have. And these are things that you can you can go check out, you know, do research. Maybe I can even specify my question just a bit more. And I'm kind of curious about the fact that some, you know, Jewish scholars would would want to or would purport that there is, you know, the Genesis is, you know, poetry and, and so on.

Are there resources for that as well? Yeah, there's there's Jewish commentaries, so some of them will say stuff like that. But read it for yourself. And see if it's just poetry. Poetry has rhyme and meter and things like that. And what I understand in the Hebrew, that doesn't. But if it's poetry, then are Adam and Eve real? Well, if you look to the New Testament, they certainly taught that Adam and Eve were real, and that they had fallen.

And so the fall in the garden was legitimate. And it seems to be that the implication there in Genesis is literal. Now, the issue might be, well, how do you have days without the sun? You know, there's theories about that. I'm not gonna get into various things.

But you need to study what they had to say on both sides. And see, the funny thing is, you know, that the older I've gotten, the younger I believe the earth is. And I've said various things over time, and I don't believe there.

Personally, I don't believe it's millions of years old. I just don't buy it anymore. I used to, but I don't buy it anymore. And I've seen too many counter evidences. So yeah, it's good, really good stuff that that I've read.

And I lean definitely that way. It's just want to get a balanced view, if you will, maybe just a corner argument. Yeah, that's what I do. If I were to do an article or on how yeah, that's right.

That's right. If I read an article on how old is the earth, I would do exactly what you are talking about. I go to different websites, different books, I just start reading and see. And then, of course, the scriptures are the final authority. And I would go through and see what the scripture has to say about it. And whatever it says, that's it.

And, you know, as is always the case, the Bible is always right. So that's the primary. Excellent. All right. All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. You're welcome. God bless.

All right. Let's get on the phones. Next longest waiting person is Chad from Colorado Springs.

Chad, welcome. You're on the air. Yeah, I think. Thank you for taking my call. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Sure. Okay.

So my question pertains to hermeneutics. Okay. There are roughly two.

I'm sorry, you're breaking up a little bit. They're roughly two what? Two people that I try to employ when reading the Bible. Okay. And one of them is to interpret the text in a way that's consistent with what the author intended to convey. Right. And the other is to interpret the text in a way that is consistent with the rest of the scripture. Good.

And my question is, what do I do when those two principles come into play? Well, then you rejoice. You rejoice.

Seriously. Because what you just discovered is something you don't understand. And now you go to study.

And you'll find treasures. That's what I do when I find something that doesn't make sense. I go, Oh, good.

It used to be I used to say, Oh, no. Now I go, Oh, all right. I'm going to find something here.

It's gonna be great. Great little study. That's, that's, that's me. Yeah, I enjoy, you know, I enjoy studying. And when I'm posed with the challenge, I like to work on it. But specifically, I guess the conflict I've been trying to figure out how to reconcile the resurrection narratives, mainly the appearances of Jesus.

After he resurrected, I've been trying to come up with harmonization. And I was looking at the one on karm.org. And I noticed that it places John chapter 20, verse two, prior to Matthew chapter 28, verse five.

Okay. And here's, here's the conflict that I'm noticing. So when I read Matthew 28, and I read, like, say, verse five, which says, the angel said to the woman, Do not be afraid, for I know what you are, I know you're looking for Jesus, who has created the five. We see that word woman, again, in verse eight. And then in verses, in verses nine and 10, we see these plural pronouns, they and them. So the question that I had when I'm reading this is, who is the author of Matthew? Well, who is Matthew most likely referring to by those plural pronouns by the word woman?

Well, it's pretty clear to me that those terms are supposed to be interpreted in light of verse one, which says, after the Sabbath, Mary Magdalene and the other men went to the tomb. But if I, but if I go by the technology on karm.org... Well, hold on a second. Gotcha.

But I can't, can't deal with it. Because it's been a long time as I've written that. And so I just can't tell you, you know, you can quote the verses, but it's, I mean, what I would suggest is look at other harmonies of the Gospels and look at those areas. Because I remember doing that for this article, looking at a harmony issue, and there's debates about exactly what events happened in what exact order.

And so we can do an estimate of what we think. Yeah. Okay, yeah, that's a good point. And I did, I, before going to karm.org, I looked at like, at least 12 different websites that harmonize these, and all 12 of them that I could find placed me on chapter 20, verse two, prior to Mark, or prior to Matthew 28, verse five. And so I just don't, it seems like that particular harmonization requires me to disregard the intended meaning of the text. Well, I'll tell you what, this is, I got you, but you're just, you know, okay, I can't follow what you're saying without looking at the verses, sitting down without having to do radio and mapping it all out. So what I would do is continue to do research, you know, and you'll find a solution. In fact, when I did the Bible difficulty section on karm, there was only one thing I couldn't solve, just one.

And I forgot what it was, but it has thickness of the fig tree, if I remember correctly. And I went, oh, you know, whatever. I'll find out something later. But they have answers.

And it's just a matter of understanding and growing. Okay? Okay, well, I'll keep looking. Thank you for taking us on that. Sure, man. Thanks.

All right. Hey, folks, we have three open lines, two open lines if you want to give me a call. 877-207-2276. Next caller's on Romans 9. Oh, that'll be fun. Hey, we'll be right back. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Let's get on the phone with Jason from Arizona. Jason, welcome. You're on the show.

Hi, Matt. I think this is glorious in Romans Chapter 9, but I wanted just to make sure that I'm comprehending it correctly. And so I wanted to ask you, in Romans 9-11, when Paul wrote that God's election stands, that means, if I'm understanding it correctly, that it's irrevocable and immutable. Is that correct? Yeah, God's choice in the context, for those of the twins who were not yet born, had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose, according to his choice, would stand, not because of works, but because of him who calls.

It was said to the, you know, one will serve the other, and one I hated, one I loved. So that's God's sovereign decree and choice. Yeah. So what I'm saying is, if I'm understanding it, that it's glorious for the believers in Christ, is that if we're born of God, and he chose us for salvation, imparting faith unto us, he's not ever going to revoke the free gift, because it's immutable.

Correct. He cannot revoke that. In Hebrews 10-5, he says, you'll never leave us or forsake us. In Colossians 2-14, Jesus canceled the certificate of debt, the sin debt at the cross. And they work concomitantly with the issue of the imputation of Christ's righteousness, which were justified by faith, Romans 3-28, Romans 4-5, Romans 5-1. And the faith that God grants to us, Philippians 1-29. So because of all of this, and since we're chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless, Ephesians 1-4, and then he predestines us, Ephesians 1-5, then God cannot lose any, which is why Jesus says, at the will of the fathers, that Jesus lose none, John 37-40.

So yes, it all fits together nicely. I mean, Matt, this is so glorious, I can't even find the words. When people talk about Romans 9, they get caught up in controversy and their emotions take over. But as a child of God, as a believer in Jesus, I look at this and I say, hallelujah, he's not going to change his mind about you and I, Matt.

He's not going to, he's not, it's immutable, it is immutable. You remind me of a friend of mine, Dave Brock, and he's local here to Idaho, and because of him, who loves Reformed theology, just to hear, he is like basking in the rays of sunlight. As he, we were talking about it yesterday, and I'll be teaching on this tomorrow night probably.

We're having a group study at my house, people want to know, and I say, come on over, I'll teach. And he is so in love with the doctrines of God's sovereignty. And he says, how come people don't see it? How come they don't want to see it?

And the simple answer is because, well, one, they could have been misled in churches, but the other one is, they want their own sovereignty, not God's. But I'm with you. It is such wonderful news to know that God loved me eternally, and his thoughts for me are eternal, and that he has saved me, and he cannot deny himself. He cannot leave me, and I cannot be lost.

It's so comforting. I have never heard one sermon in my entire life where anyone has ever said, when God has chosen us, elected us for salvation, he will not change his mind. It is immutable. It is irrevocable. This is enough to shout for the rest of my life. If I never learned anything else, Matt, this is so glorious to, you know, I recently came, I recently started understanding this, and I went 25 years ignorant to this, trying to earn my way to heaven, depressed and sad and hurt, and then realizing, wait a minute, wait a minute, if he gave me the free gift of salvation, you're telling me he'll never revoke it?

This is glorious news. It's like, Matt, if I gave you a gift and I said, I'm never taking it back, you're not going to walk around insecure. If I gave you a Rolex watch and I said, it's yours forever, Matt, thank you for your work. You're not insecure about me taking the watch back.

How much glorious is it that Christ gave us this gift? I tell you, Matt, I can't even articulate it. I thank you for affirming what I thought. I understood that it's irrevocable.

Well, listen to this. I'm going to read you some scriptures, okay? This is Romans 11, starting at verse 28.

From the standpoint of the gospel, they, that's the unbelievers, are enemies for your sake. But from the standpoint of God's choice, they're beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now you have been shown mercy because of their disobedience. So those who have been once disobedient that because of the mercy shown to you, they also may be shown mercy.

There you go. It's Romans 11, 28, 29, 30, 31. But verse 29 says, the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

They cannot be taken back. And we know that Romans 6, 23 says the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. And the word gift in Romans 6, 23, the free gift of God is eternal life.

The word gift there is charisma. And in Romans 11, 29, for the gifts, charisma, for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. The salvation is a charismatic gift.

People don't understand. They think charismatic gifts means speaking in tongues and doing backflips. Charismatic gifts means empowered by the Holy Spirit. It's the Holy Spirit who saves, who works the saving gift of power in us. And it's irrevocable because Christ came to redeem the ones given to him by the Father.

Now check this out. This is John 6, 37. This is what it says. It says all that the Father gives me will come to me. And I'd like to tie that in with Acts 13, 48, which says as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. But Jesus says all that the Father gives me will come to me. It's not that the Father will give to me those who come to me. It says the Father gives them, they're going to come to him. That means they're already been given by the Father and chosen by the Father from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1, 4.

And the one who comes to me, I certainly will not cast out. For I've come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me. That all that he's given me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life.

And I myself will raise him up on the last day. That is eternal security. You know this is such a big deal to someone like me who for 25 years was in fear and torment and I had no joy in my Christian faith. Always trying to earn my salvation. Always feeling that no matter how hard I tried I'd always have an impure thought or do something that I felt was not perfect.

And I was always depressed. And to learn about these truths for the first time in my life I truly feel like a new man. You're not the only one who has said that. It's freeing. It's liberating.

It's heartwarming to know that God loves you in spite of what you are and your salvation doesn't depend on your goodness. That is so freeing. To know that he won't change his mind I feel like if I died today to come to that one truth alone Matt I'm forever grateful. He's never going to change his mind. There's no words. I can't even think of any words to say how glorious.

He can't change his mind. I'm just awestruck and thank you for the call. Thank you for taking my call.

Well you're welcome. And I'm going to tell you you're on the road to some more theology that you're going to learn about. So keep listening.

You'll hear more. Amen. Thank you Matt. Alright man. Well God bless. Bye-bye. Bless you sir. Alright.

Alright. Oh I love that call. That was awesome. Let's get to Nelson from California. Nelson welcome you're on the air.

God bless Matt. Awesome question. I just wanted to add to that. On Psalms 139 I'm just paraphrasing here.

I don't know the top of my head but David I believe it's David the author says that the thoughts he has toward me are more than the stands of the sea. Yep. And it's just amazing.

Wow. Well my question is from James chapter 1 verse 2 through 4. I kind of understand what it's saying there but can you elaborate what right there how is it important for us believers to apply that in our lives? Sure. Now we've got a break coming up so I'm going to read the text and then when we get back we'll go through it. This is going to be important for a lot of people.

James 2 or it's going to be James 1 verses 2, 3 and 4. Consider it all joy my brethren when you encounter various trials knowing that testing of your faith produces endurance and that endurance have its perfect result so that you may be perfect and complete lacking in nothing. So you want me to expand on it a little bit because I can't. Yes amplify it I guess. All right.

You can't. When we encounter various trials for one it's because of what God is allowed to come into our lives and when I read this I think of one thing very quickly and it was the day my son died and it was an incredible trial. So I'll talk about that when we get back from the break and we'll talk about how it produced endurance and a better faith. Hey folks we'll be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. We have three open lines 877-207-2276. It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right everybody welcome back to the show. Nelson are you there?

Yes. All right so consider it all joy when you encounter various trials knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. Let endurance have its perfect results so that you may be perfect and complete lacking in nothing. I'll tell you what happened with our son but let me say this. If your faith is in Jesus you'll endure. If your faith is in your circumstances you won't endure and this is where the testing of faith comes in because if your situation is bad but your faith is in Christ you'll make it and if it's not in him but it's in your circumstances your bank account your health Jesus has blessed you and that's why you are following him because look at the good things you've got then you'll fall away during difficulty. At the time that my wife and I lost our son Jacob he had a birth defect and I was making almost no money and not that money is a big deal it is that it isn't depending on circumstances but I was making below the poverty line and I was assistant pastor at a church and so we didn't have much and we had a car which my parents had arranged for me to have and this is me after I'm at a seminary I'm in my early 30s and a wife and we already had one baby and trying to feed that baby in diapers I mean it was a very very very difficult time and then we found out that Jacob had a birth defect holoprosencephaly and trisomy 13 and actually trisomy 13 and I remember getting word and having to have someone drive me to where my wife was she had the car for the medical I'm at the medical situation sorry it's coming back to me and we are sitting there she's to my right and the the lady said she gave us the bad news saying that he'll probably die shortly after birth and if he lives he won't be very viable let's just say and she offered abortion and I'm so proud of my wife she instantly said don't ever bring that up again we're never going to abort our baby now my wife's faith was in Christ not the circumstances not our lack of money or having only one car and a son who's going to pass away and so we endured through that trial most families when there's a loss of a child they in a divorce my wife and I's faith grew closer to be closer to God and stronger in God and stronger in God as well as we grew closer because our faith was not in our circumstances our faith was in Christ and we knew that he let us endure this for a reason I think the odds of that birth defect are one in 58,000 and so when I heard that of all the weird things to think but I was comforted I was comforted because I thought God's allowing this and I don't know why and he's allowed it to happen to us and he has his reasons my wife and I rejoiced that we were she had a baby and let me just say that um we prayed for his healing and I mean I can't get in all the details but God provided people and he provided things a woman who had helped someone else go through the exact same birth defect which was one of 58,000 and knew somebody who did the exact same thing and prepared us for it we didn't even have money have enough money for uh tombstone and he did die in our arms right after my wife gave birth and that woman was there and during this and I used to work at a hospital used to carry bodies to the morgue and I wanted to carry the son of the body of my son to the to the morgue at this hospital they wouldn't let me but God provided that that woman who happened to be a nurse and they let her do it even though she didn't work there and we felt a friend do this and then we had I there's so many other things that happened with the music and with the people and the preaching of the gospel and then a man appeared who had he was in street clothes and he waited for the funeral to be over and he handed me a check for a thousand dollars just enough to pay for the headstone and the funeral costs God provided what we needed and our faith just flourished because it wasn't in our circumstances it was in our Lord and our Savior it was in Christ it was in Jesus yes and through yes and so so many things it's always been in Christ and that's how come we survive that's what it means you know with joy my brother when you encounter various trials because your faith is being perfected and it can only be perfected sometimes when you're looking into the eyes of Christ who is there anguishing with you suffering with you but knows sometimes just as he had to go through things he had to go through his trials we do too and it produced endurance so we my wife and I we just we just have so much easier time trusting God through everything it means it doesn't mean we don't prepare but we just trust him I have a saying I have a saying now it's is trust and go and so our faith is not perfect but it's being perfected as flippance 1 6 says I'm confident this very thing that God that the Lord who began a good work and you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus our Lord and this is what this means at least in my experience I don't know if that helps but I hope it does um no yeah definitely and again uh Matt thank you for for your ministry and may God continue blessing you and your wife listen you and your wife wow thank you brother appreciate it for for the story thank you for elaborating on on the scripture thank you brother by God's grace all right man you're welcome man God bless okay wow boy I've been dealing with that for a long time like that but that's how it is sometimes uh with with life there's a lot of pain I know that a lot of you listening have suffered a great deal and are suffering and going through suffering and suffering from the result of something and let me just tell you where are your eyes are they on Jesus are they on your circumstances your money your friendships or are they on Jesus if they're not on Christ go repent and just put them on Christ and say Lord I trust you beyond my ability to understand and Lord I believe help my unbelief I just trust you and move forward that way and you'd be surprised that through the storm God is there uplifting you it does happen I know all right let's get to Tony from New York Tony welcome you're on the air hey Matt um I was encouraged by your story it's testimony of trusting in the Lord through the mystic trials yes yep um yeah so my questions regarding George Mueller and his life of faith yeah and um and his life and Spurgeon's life really I look up to as uh men who depended upon God you know and and through prayer and Mueller uh it said that end of his life he read his bible from end to end almost 200 times he is known as a man of prayer during the course of his life he had seen some 50 000 answers to prayer he fed and closed a house over 10 000 orphans yeah distributed millions of tracts books and bibles and he did all this without asking any person for money instead he took his supplications to God and trusted him to provide his every need and also think about that how God provided for you you know that thousand dollars for that tombstone for your son and so my question is in 1st Corinthians 12 um where it talks about the spiritual gifts did Mueller have the gift of faith or was it like God's providential favor upon him through the means of grace through prayer well obviously God had granted him great faith and that's what it says in verse 9 and incidentally George Mueller is one of my heroes and I've read a lot of his works and uh answers to prayer folks get this book answers to prayer by George Mueller um right it just is tremendous and I've read a lot it's tremendous but yeah he had a great faith and uh if you've read his material it sounds like you have you know I mean the stories that he's got where he just trusted God and miraculously things just came to fruition did you hear the one about the uh read the one about the the heater the furnace that was going to go the heater the heat no the furnace the heater the furnace oh the okay okay the heater yeah yeah I'm gonna tell it because he would want to probably want to hear this one this is a good one yeah yeah but they had hundreds of of um orphans in a building and the furnace was was bad and was going to go out pretty soon but it was during the winter and so they thought of different ways to supply heat for the orphans electricity was too expensive at the time because he was in the late 1800s and they thought kerosene lamps but one kid knocking one kerosene lamp in a wooden building hundreds are going to be dead so they couldn't do that and long story short the only option that Mueller could think of was to pray and ask God to change the cold north wind blowing and make it a warm south wind to blow during the time when they shut the furnace down and that he would pray that the men would would be willing to work hard who fixed it and this is the only option left and so the day that they came in to shut the furnace down because they wanted it to shut down instead of break because then it would be more difficult at least they could control it uh the day that they they came in to shut it down there was a warm south wind blowing and um they worked on the furnace and then he asked the supervisor of the men would would they be willing to come back in the morning and um and continue to work you know to get the so the kids can have heat as soon as possible and every single man said no they would not instead after 18 hours of work every single man stayed on and worked until the job was finished they turned the furnace on and then the cold wind started blowing again from the north yeah stuff like this yeah and there's more stories like that from him yeah yeah thanks matt you're welcome man god bless okay all right so uh folks um we only have about a minute to show just let me end with this you know i want to warm your hearts you know if you're a christian and our lives are difficult and circumstances are difficult let me tell you you need to look to christ do not look at your circumstances put your faith and trust in them i'm not saying ignore what your circumstances are you have to work hard in them but that's not where your hope is your hope should be in jesus christ your hope should be in what jesus has done and what jesus can do and what jesus will do in your circumstances and a lot of times he allows these things to happen to us so with that we plead and we bend the knee and open our hearts to him and trust him and then we can see how he provides oftentimes the last minute in ways that we would not have imagined that's the one we trust trust in jesus amen and by his grace go back on there tomorrow folks god bless we'll talk to you then see you bye