Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at carm. dot org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick live.

Baransis taking a call and responding to your questions at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. Oh, hi, and welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick live. Today's date is September twenty eighth, twenty.

Twenty-six for the podcasters, and as usual, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. You can also send me an email, and that's easy as well. Send an info. I'm tired though.

Sorry, been up working, so I'm tired. Send an email to info at karm dot org. Info at c a r m dot o r g. Put in the subject line: "Radio comment." And radio question, or either one of those is is fine, and we get to them. All right, yeah.

I've been I got like no sleep, and been working all day, you know, painting a fence, and you know, power spraying, powering all that stuff, prepping stuff. Oh man. Work is hard.

Okay. Hey, look. If you want to call me, we have three open lines now. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Look at it.

Today from Pennsylvania. Dave, welcome. You're on the air. How you doing, brother?

Well, aside from ready to fall asleep, I'm doing okay. Hanging in there. Oh, maybe you're ready to take on an atheist now. Oh, are you an atheist? No, no, no, no, not at all, brother.

Oh, oh, then I'd be. You mean then I'd be about ready for the atheist level. You mean all tired and fatigued? I hope that. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Okay. They, they, they still wouldn't have a chance. But no, no.

My my my question was on First Corinthians chapter thirteen, verse ten. Uh huh. I. I've been teaching on the charismatic gifts. I am a continuationist.

Good, but I don't. I know. I think. I just wanted your opinion on that. Is when the perfect is come.

Do you you see that as the completion of the canon, or when Jesus returns? Return of Jesus. Period. Absolutely, when he returns, because the perfect, because if you look at it, this is a really important issue to me because I was a pastor in Southern California and. In the PCA Presbyterian Church of America, they found out later that I was continuationist, and let's just say, long story short, lost my pastorate over the issue.

And even though I didn't practice the gifts, I just exegetically wasn't convinced of cessationism. And so I had to study quite a bit in order to defend myself and stuff, and ask questions, you know. And anyway, it worked out by God's sovereignty.

So I'm quite familiar with the issue. And if you go to First Corinthians one seven, it gives us a clue about something, and I will just read it to you. I have it memorized, but it says, "So that you are not lacking any gift, and the word gift is charisma, awaiting eagerly the revelation or the apocalypsin, apocalypse, the return of Christ." So you're not the Corinthians and us, because it's to everyone, everywhere. First Corinthians one verses one and two. That you're not lacking any gift, any charismatic gift, while you're waiting for the return of Christ.

So this turns or this equates the gift with the return of Christ. When you go to First Corinthians thirteen ten, the perfect comes; the partial we done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, think like a child, reasoned like a child, and became a man. I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then, face to face.

So the word then refers back to when the perfect comes, and. If you do a study on the word face to face, every instance of it in the Bible is a personal interaction. It's not a completion of a project. It's a personal interaction. And I think it's like twelve times it occurs, something like that in the entire Bible.

I studied every single occurrence of him. It says, "Now I know in part, but then I'll know fully." Just says, "I have been fully known." What's really interesting about that is it's not if we know God; it's if He knows us. You know, Jesus says in John seven—I mean, Matthew seven twenty-two and twenty-three—many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy your name? Cast out demons your name? Perform miracles your name?" He says, "Get away from me!

I never knew you." And in John ten twenty seven, Jesus says, "My sheep hear my voice; I know them, you know, and they follow me." And then Galatians four eight nine: When you did not know God, you served by nature those which are not gods. But now that you've come to serve the true living God, you you come to know God, or rather, you are known by Him. Paul actually says that he goes, "You are known by God, or you know God. Rather, you are known by Him." He actually makes that statement.

So, I look at how the the the word, the phraseology of being known and fully known, is reference to salvation, and it can't be the completion of the canon because when the canon comes, then we have a personal interaction with with someone like God. We'll see Him face to face, and that's when the canon is completed. No, sorry, it's not going to work. And we're fully known when the canon's completed. No.

No, it's at the return of Christ. It just makes sense, and so there you go. And well, I could get into other stuff too, but I won't do that.

So that's why hold of that and perfect is reference to return of Christ, not the completion of the canon.

Okay. I I I definitely agree. You know, I I spoke to you here in the last few weeks. I'm a I'm a Pentecostal pastor, but I'm reformed in my theology. But I am a continuationist, and I've been working through this just to try to teach the folks that as well that hey, you know, not everybody's going to speak in tongues.

These gifts are given by the Spirit, and I see tongues as a evidence, not the evidence of. You know the what would what Pentecostals classically call the the baptism of the Holy Spirit, right? Right. But I've I've heard other Reformed guys, and not just Reformed guys, but cessationists, also they will take First Corinthians thirteen ten, and they will cross reference it with Daniel twelve four, where a prophecy is sealed. Um.

And I didn't know what you what you thought about that. Yeah, I've heard. Yeah, that's not very good. It's not a good thing for them to do. It says for you, Daniel, seal these words, seal the book, the book of Daniel, until the end of the time.

Many will go back and forth. Knowledge will increase back and forth. Long distances, great knowledge.

So seal up the book of Daniel. It's not about cessation of gifts. Simple. Here, what you can do is you get. Go ahead, I'll show you something else.

But go ahead. No, no, go ahead, brother.

Okay, so I have a website, another website called CalvinistCorner dot com, and I put my stuff like that on there. And if you were to go to CalvinistCorner dot com, and then you go to the article, Experiential Calvinism and the Charismatic Gifts. And you can scroll down, and you can see an illustration. I took First Corinthians twelve, one through thirty-one, First Corinthians thirteen, and First Corinthians fourteen. I forget which version I used.

I think it was the NIV. And I went through and crossed out the scriptures that would not be in effect anymore if cessationism was true.

So, for example, in First Corinthians twelve, for one to one is given the word of wisdom through the spirit, and to another the word of knowledge. Doesn't apply today, right? Or we can go down to to verse twenty-seven of First Corinthians twelve.

Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. Verse twenty-eight, and God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles.

Sorry, cross it out. The gifts of healings, cross it out. Helps. Administrations, various kinds of tongues, crossed out. You know, some of the I say, I say, hey, look, you can maybe disagree a few of the things I crossed out or not, you know, but it's just an illustration.

And you go to one Corinthians thirteen. If I have the gift of prophecy or speak with tongues of angels, well, that's crossed out. And then you go to one Corinthians fourteen. The first six verses are crossed out. Except for the words pursue love, that's good.

Yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. Doesn't apply to us today. And it goes on and on. About half that chapter is crossed out. And so, one of the questions I ask the cessationists is: Before I get into this, I say, I ask them, Do you know of any New Testament teach or any present day teaching that invalidates large sections of Scripture?

And they go, of course not. No true Christian, you know, would do that. Says, oh yeah, there is. There's a, there's a teaching today in Protestantism, that just it just makes several areas of Scripture just not applicable for today. Like, what are you talking about?

I said, cessationism. Taking the one Corinthians 14, start reading. Cross this out. Cross that out. Cross that out.

Right. One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself. The one who prophesies edifies the church.

Sorry, cross it out. And so forth and so on. It's a powerful illustration, and there's more. John Knox wouldn't even be allowed to speak in a lot of churches. He had a prophecy.

He prophesied the future. John Knox did. Robert Fleming. He here's some of the quotes. The strange and extraordinary.

Let me back up. He was Robert Fleming died in 1694. And he wrote, the strange and extraordinary impression I had of an audible voice in the church at night, when, being a child, I had got up to the pulpit, calling me to make haste. That's a sentence three, and I go to sentence five. It's in these.

This book called the Scotts, Scotts Worthy's. Then number ten is the extraordinary dream and marvelous vision I had twice, repeated with the inexpressible joy after the same number twenty-one, the dream at Bussy, wherein I got such express warnings as to my wife's removal, that means her death, and she died. The greatest significant confirmations given me of my wife's death. And then there's George Wishart. He received a letter.

Oh, he died in fifteen forty six. He received a letter directed to him from his intimate friend, the Laird of Kinnyar, acquainting him that he had taken a sudden sickness and requested him to come to him with all diligence. Upon this, he—that's George Wishart. Immediately set out on his journey, attended by some honest friends. They had not travelled above a quarter of a mile when, all of a sudden, he stopped, saying to the company, "I am forbidden by God to go on this journey." He says, "Will some of you be pleased to ride yonder?" And he up the hill.

Whereupon they returned, or he returned to the town. And they who went forward to the place found sixty horsemen ready to intercept them. It was an ambush. God says, "Don't go." Oh yeah, John Knox prophesied the future. Yeah, and I, I got I got a lot of I could talk about this, but I said to an examination board about this when I was being examined about this, I said, "You realize John Knox, Robert Fleming, and George Wisher wouldn't be allowed to speak in your churches today?" And they were silent.

They go, "Yeah, well." I said so. John Knox couldn't preach in your church because he's obviously a continuationist. He prophesied the future and it came to pass.

Well, I got stories. I got stories. Yeah, yeah. I think it's. I'm just.

I really want to try to be biblical, and I, and and and when when you're when you come up and if you're a like. Most of my congregation is the old school, classic Pentecostal, and so I I taught First Corinthians twelve. You know, at the very end, where Paul asks those rhetorical questions: Do all have the gift of healing? No. Do all speak with tongues?

No. And I said, unless you are a Pentecostal, and I said it. I said we have to be true to the Scriptures, and.

So, and that's that's what's paramount to me is I just want to be faithful to the Word of God. I have a I have a Baptist pastor here in my area. They're independent, so they you know the King James onlyest. He interprets First Corinthians thirteen ten as that's the KJV Bible, and I I couldn't disagree with him more. Wow, it's stupid.

When the King James Onlyists get uppity, I'll tell you what verse to go to after the break. It's okay. It's Romans five eighteen, but I'll tell you what. We'll go after it, and I'll show you what they do in the Greek. Oh man, do they butcher it?

The King James butchers it. We'll be right back, folks. After these messages, please, please stay tuned. If you want to give me a call, you can. Three open lines: eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Be right back. It's Matt Slick live. Taking a call at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy.

Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Dave from Pennsylvania. Hard but, are you still there? Yes, sir. All right.

So Romans five eighteen. Oh my goodness, does the King James just Butcher it, and I bring it up to people because I know the verse very well. And it says in the Greek, "So then, through one transgression, condemnation to all men; even so, through one act of righteousness, justification of life to all men." Little simple. But the King James says, "Therefore, as the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of the one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." The King James just butchers it. Just, it's really bad.

And so, it's a very particularly interesting verse for a lot of reasons. But the NASB has the best translation, NASB ninety-five.

So as through one transgression there there resulted condemnation to all men.

So also, through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. And the King James writers, I could get into it quite quite a bit here, but the King James writers, they misinterpreted the. Mistranslated it because they were interpreting it, and I can tell you why and what if you're interested. But anyway, that's a that's a good verse to undermine the reliability the this supremacy. Let's just say the King James.

Okay. Yeah, and it's they can't they can't see. You know, I know. I know for a fact. Like, for example, people have gone there, and if they have, they started reading out of their NIV, and they stop them and like, no, no, that's that that translation is perverted.

We don't use that here, and it's it's almost it's almost like a form of idolatry. It's cultic. Very cultic. Not saying they're not Christians, but oftentimes too, they have they have a massive problem with with with Calvinism and and of course Reformed doctrine. Yeah, it's typical.

King James only people hate Reformed theology. They hate the sovereignty of God and salvation is dependent on God choosing who He knows will freely choose Him under the right conditions. Yeah.

So. You know that that leads me to another question. I I don't believe you can lose your salvation, but good and and Pentecostal theology, right? You it it is taught that you basically you can you can walk away from God, so they wouldn't affirm eternal security, which which I one hundred percent do, but. If you go to, like, say, a King James Onlyist, like a independent, you know, Baptist church, they would affirm eternal security.

But isn't that position isn't that isn't a libertarian free will position inconsistent? If if if it's up to you to make the choice to be saved, and why couldn't you make the choice to set it down? Right. It's humanist philosophy, so think think of libertarian free will as in bed with semi-pelagianism. You know what that is, semi-pelagianism?

Yeah, yeah. All right.

So they go together, and it God chooses us because He knows what we will do.

So our salvation depends on our wisdom and our ability.

So instead of the King James, only basically all reject total depravity and they adopt a form of semi-pelagianism, which hence is the bedrock for libertarian free will. And then God's choices become conditioned on man's foreseen faith, which it's just it's just amateur theology. It's just horrible. It's really bad. Yeah, and and and and in Pentecostal theology, it's it's very much the same way.

Yeah, but to me, it leads to the logical conclusion. It turns into almost like a the logical conclusion is open theism at the end of the day. Yeah, and you pull that out, right? Molinism and open theism. And you really go far down.

So one of the things I'll do with the people who King James Onlyists who teach that you can lose your salvation, I'll say, okay, let me ask you. Jesus died two thousand years ago, right? They say yes. I said, okay.

So we have a guy named Bob who's born, let's just say, in in nineteen sixty, let's just say, and he he becomes a Christian at the age of forty. And then let's just say that he, according to your position, I'll say he goes, he loses his faith, and he ends up going to hell.

So I'm going to say now I'm going to ask you: When Jesus bore his sin, did he bear all of his sin on the cross? What are they going to say? If they say yes, well, wait a minute. If he bore all of his sin, that means even the rejection of Christ is borne, right? How could he go to hell?

True, and this is this is a kind of logic, you know. And they'll say, "Well, he didn't really bear them all. He he he just bore them up to the place where he he would stop believing." I say, "Can you show me that in the Bible?" And they invent theology to make it fit the Bible. They invent it, and and then I'll just ask them.

Okay, so after ten, fifteen minutes of discussing this and trying to show the just the the idiocy of their position with with this this bad thinking, I ask them. I say, look, let me ask you, are you doing enough to keep yourself right with the infinitely holy God? Just ask the question. That's what it comes down to. I've had people say, yes, they are.

Wow! Yes. Yes. This is what what arrogance. Absolutely, it's a man centered theology.

Does God chose me because He knew what I would choose, and that's how I keep my salvation? Yeah.

And oh, I keep it by my goodness, by my believing continually. That's how it's supposed to work.

So yeah, I'm okay. Oh, they can't see the arrogance. Yeah.

Yeah.

I was I was raised in the Pentecostal Holiness movement, and you want to talk about oppressive. And I was always taught you got to keep that window clean between you and God, any unconfessed sin, and and it just was, it was oppressive. Oh yeah, and. That's another thing. Unconfessed sin, you you have to confess your sins.

So you, so then, if you don't, what happens if you do something bad, and you're going to confess in an hour after you're you're guilt whipped by the spirit, but you die before that happens? Do you go to heaven or hell? You know, if they say, "Well, you go to heaven," well, wait a minute. You just said you have to, you can't do unconfessed sin, and then they say, "Well, he knows you would intended to." Oh, so now God's choice is based on what's in your heart. You're assuming your heart is that good.

The Bible says, "A heart that's wicked, deceitful, don't make entrusted." Jeremiah seventeen nine says, "Why is it you don't believe God's word?" And I tell them, it's because you're a humanist. You have humanist philosophy. I tell them straight, you're a humanist. Christian humanism. Man is the center.

Man's choice. Man's wisdom. Man's ability. That's how you stay saved. Oh, horrible.

Yeah.

And I don't think I can throw out.

Sorry.

Sorry, but there's so many times, have so many conversations like this. I'll say to these people who, you know, the Protestants who say that. I say, you know what? You're just teaching the same thing the Catholics are teaching, and they woo. They don't like it.

I tell you, yeah, you are, because in Catholicism, you have to, you go through sacraments to get grace reinfused in your soul. But they also teach you have to keep doing well in order to stay saved, just like you do. Oh, they don't like that. Yeah, yeah. All right, brother.

They are all right, brother. I appreciate the time as always. Thank you. God bless, man. God bless.

Hey, folks, we' right back. Give me a call if you want. Wide open lines. We' right back. It's Matt Slick live.

Taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

Now, previous caller and I talked about eternal security. I know a lot of you out there are listening will disagree and say that you cannot lose your or you can lose salvation. Let me just tell you, there's no place in Scripture that says you lose your salvation. You do find Jesus saying that He gives eternal life to them and they will never perish. John three sixteen, John ten twenty seven, twenty eight.

When Jesus equates eternal life with eternal perishing, He does that. I give eternal life; they will never perish. Jesus came to save the ones given to Him by the Father. John six thirty seven through forty. You can read this stuff.

And if Jesus is the one who bore your sins in His body on the cross, did He bear all of your sin or not all of your sin? If He paid for your sin, that means it's done, means it's gone.

Some people mistakenly think Jesus paid for everybody's sin who ever lived, and all you have to do is accept it to apply it to yourself. And this is not found in Scripture at all. I say it's found in the book of Second Historiactomy. It's just not there, okay? But this hasn't stopped so many people from saying these things that are just not biblical.

Okay, you have to accept it to apply it to yourself. Really, God's one who grants that you have faith. Philippians one twenty nine. To you, it has been granted to believe. Jesus says, "You cannot come to me." That's been granted to you from the Father.

John six sixty five. Jesus says in John six twenty nine, He says, "This is the work of God that you believe on Him whom He has sent." So people say, "Well, I'm the one who was wise enough. I was the one I saw. I needed. It was up to me." That's not what the Bible says.

It's not what the Bible says. You cannot come to me unless it has been granted you from the Father, John six sixty five. I've hammered so many people with that verse. I mean, lovingly, patiently to say, well, look at this verse. Look what it says.

How does it fit your free will? It's just up to me theology.

Well, he gives you the opportunity to. That's not what it says. I say to the people, I say, why do you have to change God's word to make it fit what you want? Why do you do that constantly? I said, "What you're teaching is, is that Jesus paid for your sin, redeemed you, made you born again.

Then you, you take yourself out of all of that by your choice.

So your choice is greater than Christ's. Your will is greater than Christ's. Your effort is greater than the sacrifice of God and flesh. Where did you get this?" I say, why don't you go to Scripture? Jesus says he gives eternal life.

They will never perish. The will of the Father is that Jesus loses none. And then people say to me, "Well, yeah, it's the will of the Father that Jesus doesn't lose none, but you can lose yourself." Where does it say that? People are—they make up so much stuff, and they just—they they paraded in churches from pulpits and stuff like this. You can lose yourself, yeah.

And I go. I know the verses people go to about you can lose your salvation. Hebrews six four through six. Hebrews ten twenty six. They go to these other verses.

You know, I'm familiar with them, and we can talk. But think about this. You know, the Bible says that He chose us in from the beginning for salvation. Second Thessalonians two thirteen, and He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world that we be holy and blameless. Ephesians four and five.

For Ephesians one four and five, so if that's the case, it means it's it's Christ's work. He's the one who did this. You're chosen, and that's it. If you're a believer, it's because you're chosen. And people don't like that.

Well, you to choose everybody.

Well, that's that's God's business, not yours. And people make it their own business. They try and step into onto the throne.

Now, I'll tell you how God's supposed to work. I'll tell you how he is. He's supposed to save everybody equally, give everybody an equal chance. And I say, where'd you get that? The book of Second Chronicles.

Where is this? He's supposed to give everyone an equal chance. Who are you to say what God has to do? Romans nine, nine through twenty-three. And I start reading that to people, and man, they do not like it.

But I, you know, I just tip over the. The idols that are in so many Protestant churches, not to mention the ones in the Catholic and Orthodox, those are big idols. But the ones here are the same kind. One in Protestantism, same kind in those churches. In the free will is your wisdom, your ability.

And so, since it's your wisdom and your ability that got you saved, it's your choice to get you unsaved. It's up to you. Oh my goodness, the arrogance of people who think that their goodness, their will, is good enough to keep them right with the infinitely holy God. My goodness. I mean, I'll tell you, all you got to do is have.

Five seconds of the presence of incredible purity shining upon your soul, just scraping the sin right out of you. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, you won't ever talk like that again. Oh, I keep myself right. You won't ever do it. No, people who say that, nah, they have not experienced that deep, profound, holy power that just.

Rocks you to your core, oh man! And you realize you're saved by grace. You're kept by grace. The blood of Christ is the blood of God. It's paid.

It's done. He doesn't make mistakes when he calls you. You're His. But yet, so many weak theologians, weak teaching pastors. Oh no, no!

You are the one who's sovereign. I remember a pastor locally here said, "Your words have more power in your life than the words of Christ." What an arrogant, ignorant pastor! I heard him, I heard him say it, on a in a recording. People asked me about this one church locally here. Oh my goodness, what foolishness!

And so much is across the Christian church. And that oh, by the way, that church is just exploding. I guess that's what happens when you tickle people's ears. Let's get to Scott from Washington. Scott, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi there. I just had a a quick question on some definitions of certain words. Just just three words. I was hoping that you could define the first one would be provisionism or a provisionist.

Yeah, God. That's from Layton Flowers. God provides opportunities for you to believe under the right circumstances. Kind of a blend of Mullanism and Libertarian Free Willism with Semi-Pelagianism. Yeah.

Okay. What about fundamentalist?

Well, it can have different meanings, but. It's used differently, but fundamentalists generally are kind of known as those who adhere to the Bible strictly, legally a little bit legalistic about dress, drinking, movies, and things like that. Generally, okay.

Okay, and then last one is dispensationalist. Yeah, dispensationalism is a movement from the late, no, or mid 1800s, early 1900s, where they look at the Bible in dispensations or epochs of time that God works through time differently.

So, before the fall, it was the you know the age of grace or the dispensation of grace. After the fall, was dispensation. They have words for them. I forgot what that one is. And then from Moses on.

Is the dispensation of the law, and then we're in the dispensation of grace.

So, in other words, these are how God works. They break up epochs of history, periods of history, of through major biblical events, and then they assign a style of work that God does through them at that time, and they'll call it dispensationalism. And I don't see it in the Scripture, but we do find the Scriptures covenant, and so God works covenantally. We see God work covenantally all over the place. A covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties.

God works graciously from before the fall to after the fall, in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

So that's not to say all dispensationalists are the same or that they reject covenant. They don't. But that's that's just the the basics of what it is.

Okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, my church rejects dispensationalism and and they teach covenants, like you were saying. Good. And but I just I've noticed that I thought about it.

I'm like I don't really exactly know what dispensationalism really is, so I figured I'd ask. Yeah, I just looked up an article I wrote on on Carmont it back in twenty on June. Huh? Oh, I wrote what are some of the problems with it? Age of innocence.

Adam, Adam and Eve before they sinned, the age of conscience from the first sin to the flood, civil government from the flood, there was government in the promise from Abraham, the the dispensation of promise, Abraham to Moses, then the dispensation of the law from Moses to the cross, dispensation of grace from the cross to the millennial kingdom, and millennial kingdom dispensation is the rule of Christ on earth in a thousand years, and they had to do seven. Seven dispensations.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, yeah, that's that's all I had for today.

Well, good. Hope it was helpful.

Okay. I'm glad your church rejects it personally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Not to say that this was. I agree. They're still saved. They're still Christians. I just don't agree with that methodology of imposing epochs of times and means of modes and stuff like that upon Scripture.

I think these are just they should go covenantal. That's the best way. Yeah.

Speaking of that, have you ever heard of a writer whose last name is Campbell? His Israel and the New Covenant is the book. Yeah, I've heard of. Oh, what's his name? Oh, we got to break.

Hold on, a little bit of research. But yeah, he's in the 1800s. Campbell, and what was the name of the book? What? Israel and the New Covenant.

Okay, I'll check it out really fast. All right, hey, we'll be right back, folks. After these messages, please stay tuned. And if you want to call me, the number is eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Be right back.

It's Matt Slick live taking your calls at eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. All right, Scott, you still there, brother? Yes, sir.

Okay, what were we talking about before the break?

So I was working a little. I have a few books on the covenant, on covenant theology, and. I was just wondering if you've heard of the Israel and the New Covenant one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember now.

Okay, so I did some research in the break.

Sorry, I'm really tired. Didn't get much sleep last night.

So, yeah, he he was in the 1800s, and he's the he helped found some of the it was called the Campbellite movement, and other groups, particularly the Church of Christ, came out of it. He taught baptism was necessary for salvation. Acts 2:38.

So he preached a false gospel.

So I would not trust him.

Okay, because I have another one too, and it's just called The Israel of God by Robertson. The Israel of God by Robertson is that a dispensational book? Also, it's okay to read these if you understand that there's a lot of caution that you should have with them. You know, while you're reading them, I'll read books like that because I want to see what the the other side is saying. All right.

And but this is this looks like is from PNR, Presbyterian Reformed Publishing, Reformed Presbyterian Theologian. Main arguments: the land God's land promised to Israel. Here's what they did in Romans 11:26. He argues it means a full member of elect Jews saved through the history, not a single mass.

Well, people push back. Dispensationalists and many premillennialists argue his point of a future national turning of Jews to Christ points to a future. Many dispensers argue that okay, so I guess he, I don't know. He argues that the Israel of God is the church. Nah, nah, I wouldn't agree with him.

But you know, P and R is a good. Generally, it's a good good publishing house. Pushed a lot of stuff. I actually submitted a book to I think try, didn't get it with them. Yeah, back then.

Oh, really? Nineties, yeah. Um, yeah.

So they're they're not the hugest publishing house, but the they're good.

So at least they were back then.

Okay, so I can tell you. All right.

Okay. Yeah.

No. Sounds good. Got time for one more question? Sure, I got nobody waiting, so go ahead. Sure.

Okay, cool. So, based on what you just said, so what do you think? What is the Israel of God?

Well, I don't know the term. I'd have to do a search on just the term, the Israel of God. But from what I understand, it could be used for Replacement theology, in that the Christian Church has replaced Israel, and we are the Israel of God, we are true Israel, that we are the ones who brought all this, the the fruition and fullness of what the. The true working of God is through the believers. Israel represented God, but they blew it, and they rejected the Messiah.

So Israel is replaced, and so some people will say the true Israel of God are the Christians. And you know, in Romans eleven twenty five twenty six, I am of the opinion, as a lot of Reform people are, that God's not done with Israel yet. And that the Israel of God is actually the national group of of Israeli of Israelites.

So there is discussion about it. There is there is debates. You have to see how the term is used.

Okay. Yeah, because I've always just sort of I don't know, but assume, but I am pretty sure I've been taught in the past that the Israel of God doesn't is not necessarily the church replacing Israel, but it's basically. All believers throughout all time, which nowadays I guess we call modern day the church, you know, believers in Christ among the world, but that even basically the elect in a broad sense would be the Israel of God. That's what I've always thought. But you know, because not all Israel are Israel, which I think tells me that it's not just the Jews, national Jews.

So it tells me maybe it has to be what I what I just said, but I don't know for sure. Right, and here's the thing: is that the phrase "Israel of God" occurs in Galatians six sixteen, and the previous verse says, "Neither circumcision as can be neither circumcision is anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation." And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

So the phrases in the Bible, what does it mean here? It seems to mean the people of God, just like what you were saying. But different groups can use the terms differently. That's why I always say, "Who's using it? What's the context?" and things like that.

But that's the phrase of the Israel of God in Galatians six sixteen.

Okay. Okay. All right.

Well, good. Yeah, I think that's all I got.

Well, okay. Oh man, sorry about that. I got a nice yawn there. I was good. I needed it.

Go get yourself some coffee, buddy. Oh man, I've been working a lot, and none of it on karma.

So okay, all right, okay, brother. All right, have a good one.

Okay, man. God bless. All right.

Well, there we go.

Now we have nobody waiting right now, so let me just kind of give you an update on some stuff. I a week from Wednesday, I'll be flying to Europe.

So next week, and I have to drive to a place on Tuesday, which means I probably I won't be on the air Tuesday. Probably will be on the air on Monday. I'll be on the rest of the the air here this week, and then I'll be going to Germany and England, and. I'll be doing a tour, a Bible tour. Going to go through the tour of the Reformation.

It's called the Reformation tour, and be with Eric Johnson and Bill McKiver and other guys. It was a lot of fun. We've I've done many with them, or several, I should say, and it's good. And I'll be doing that, and then come back. I don't know.

I don't know what it'll be like when I get back, because I got to drive a few hours to get back here. When I get back to the place where I take off from, and so I've done it before. We get back from Europe, and man, your sleep is all messed up. It took me like four days before I was back to normal. And I remember I'd get up at four o'clock in the morning, wide awake.

It's time for me to get up. And try and get through stuff. Any rate, so that's that. I'll be gone. When am I be back?

I'm gonna be back. Let's see. It'll be about two weeks.

So I'll just say that. And I'm gonna have someone at the house here, guarding the house and stuff like that. Won't give you much details beyond that, but it'll be taken care of. And I don't trust people. I don't trust Chris.

I don't trust Christians, but I don't trust the lot of people. They know I'll be gone because I'm going to be off the air, and they're going to know why.

So that's why. And but we're going to have the house will be occupied, all right, and stuff.

So I think that's it for that.

Now let's see.

So. Yeah, I can talk about different things here.

Well, one I need to let you know is that we stay on the air by your support, and we do need it. We do need it. We don't have enough to keep us above, keep us afloat on our own. We have a donor or two or three. At sometimes, will come in at the last minute and help us out.

And God has done that so many times, and we're so grateful for that. But the goal is that we have a set income coming in from five, ten, fifteen, twenty dollar month donors. We have so many of them. That's what we want: is that we then don't have to worry about anything. And instead of our our savings in the karm account going.

Down all the time, then it's enough to cover what we need, which include includes paying the missionaries. We support missionaries. That's really a neat thing to do. We've been doing it for I think 15 years. We have a missionary been supporting in in Colombia, South America.

Another one I think 11 or 12 years in. In Sao Paulo area of Brazil, and I'm trying to remember how we we got involved with them, but I I think I remember. It's been so long, but these are good guys who pursued karma and pursued ministry. They were have hearts for the Lord. We got to know them after a year or two.

We started helping out a little bit, and then it just became we were able to support them, and we did. And now that we we're their full-time support, they don't need a lot, but they do need enough, and we support them. We also have two guys in in Nigeria. And now, here is something I haven't told. I mean, one guy in Nigeria, one guy in Malawi.

The guy in Nigeria, we we call him Moses. That's the the code name because we don't use his real name for obvious reasons. Because the Muslims want to want to kill him. He he he is starting a church denomination in Nigeria, the Reformed Church of Nigeria, and. He needs a sponsor, and so Karm sponsors, sponsoring him.

And so they use a lot of Karm material. He goes, he prints stuff up, and we send him a printer, or we buy him a printer. He's sent it to him, we buy him a printer, and he just uses it and prints up tracks all over the place and distributes them. And he's distributed information against Islam. And against the name it claim it prosperity gospel says God wants you rich, and healthy all the time, and he says it's just it's just destroying churches out there.

He's he's working against it. He's been physically attacked by a Christian pastor who did not like the idea of him preaching and teaching God's sovereignty. Over all things, and this guy attacked him. Says, "No, it's up to you. Your wisdom.

God wants you wealthy. He wants you with lots of money. Wants you." And he attacked Moses, and he had to go to the hospital. And Moses tells us these stories. And when he he calls us, sometimes electricity's not on because they have power outages where he's at.

And sometimes he sleeps in his car as he travels and stuff like that. And so we support Moses. And he's he's a good godly man, he's really a good guy, and you know it sounds funny a guy from Nigeria you know no he's legit he's legit we've seen pictures of him preaching and teaching and he's when he's live groups of people will come in they'll talk about Jesus behind him yeah we love the Lord Jesus you know it's really good we see the videos and and. Different churches he's at and stuff like that, so it's really nice. And then our guy Malawi, he goes to different countries in the area that's southern ish Africa, and he goes and he preaches and teaches at colleges, and uses much hard material as well.

Anyway, I'm just telling you, okay. And and then there's my salary, and then there's the salary for for Web maintenance, but here's something else. What we're trying to do, I'm just giving. We have nobody waiting. I'm just about to talk about this.

What we're trying to do is develop a new system. We have a guy working on it, but we can't pay him very much because we don't have much. And he's he just loves the Lord and he wants to serve God. He says, "Pay me what you can when you can. We'll just trust God." And he's developing a system that we hope we can use for other ministry.

And it'll be his, of course, and we're going to move the schools over to them—a brand new system, because things have changed over the years. The schools used to work so smoothly, but now they're not, and we have a glitch every now and then, and so we have to work on a few of those things. But we're trying to upgrade, and it just takes. Let's just say five to ten thousand dollars to get this done, and we're just inching along. Like, hey, we got a hundred bucks.

Let's put a couple bricks on the on the church building.

Well, wait till the next hundred dollars comes in. We'll put some more bricks up. That kind of thing is what's happening, and we're just waiting for God to come through. And that's okay. That's all right.

We need to get that done. We need to the schools moved over, and add some schools. I want to do some more schools, and I want to do some teaching, video teaching, for the schools as well. Anyway, the music's going to start. I hope you all had a good time listening, and may the Lord bless you.

I hope you had a great weekend, and by His great, wonderful grace, we'll be back on air tomorrow. We'll talk to you then. I hope you all have a great evening, everyone. God bless. Talk to you later.

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