Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. And today's date is September 14th, 2026, for the podcasters as usual. If you want, you can give me a call. It's easy.

Just dial 8772-072276, and we can get you on the air. And we have somebody calling in and Okay. And so, there's that. And also, I'm just looking at a couple things here. Also, if you want to give me an email, send an email to info at carm.org, info at carm.org.

That's one of the ways you can get a hold of me there as well. Put a subject line, radio comment, or radio question if you have something related to that.

Now, I went to a conference on Friday, Saturday. preached at a church in uh on Sunday. I'm going to talk about that and something else that happened which I thought was very interesting. And we'll get to that after the caller. After the caller.

So let's get to Jermaine from California, Jermaine. All right, brother. Welcome, man. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, welcome back.

was thinking about crucifixion And I know people there's always a big controversy over it, but why was crucifixion itself why was that particular method of death So important to God? Like, why couldn't it be drowning or something else? The shedding of blood is what's necessary out of it. Drowning wouldn't accomplish that.

So the shedding of blood from his hands, his feet, his side, his brow, his back was part of the cleansing blood that It was necessary. Crucifixion was prophesied in Psalm 22, written about a thousand BC. And also in Zechariah 12:10, look upon me whom they have pierced.

So it fulfills the prophecy of God. And this is because what happened is the Phoenicians are the ones who invented crucifixion, and then the Roman Empire borrowed it and would crucify really bad criminals. And so the Jews, in their hatred for Christ, got him crucified, not just run through with a sword, or not just imprisoned, but actually killed in the most reprehensible way, demonstrating the Evil. that was working through the spiritual forces of of darkness upon them and through those Jews at that time to do the worst they could to the Son of God, and who is God the Son.

So that would be the main reason.

Okay, and I'm going to be doing a presentation on this in a couple of months. And from everything I've seen in crucifixion, it was. the most brutal manner of torture that they can come up with, would I be correct in saying Rome would be a representation of Kind of the the world and Since the Jews were present, also, you pretty much have. The world itself. diametrically opposed to they all kind of voted to kill Kill God by proxy, would I be kind of close to that?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um If you notice that Think about it in terms of demonic forces.

So the demonic forces were let loose, so to speak, unleashed, and the worst kind of death for Christ was given. And I've taught on what happens to the body in crucifixion, it is horrendous. It is just horrendous. But there are Christians who have undergone s not s well, some have also been crucified, but other means of death which are just horrendous. You'd think, you know, run them through, cut off their head, make it quick.

But no, there's some things I can't even describe on radio. Fox's Book of Martyr describes some of them, and it's just a manifestation of the evil, seeking to destroy maximally with as much pain and suffering as possible, that which stands for truth. Yeah. It's it's there. And more's coming too.

More's coming.

Okay, yeah, and I've I've read Fox Books of Martyrs. It's a pretty bad.

So I I think I understand where you're going and why you can't describe it. Yeah, there's certain things you just can't talk about on radio that are described in that book. We're done to Christians. You can't you can't mention it, you get in trouble. Yep.

That's right.

Okay, y'all, I'll bring up part two or three coming up.

So, yeah, thanks, man. I appreciate it. All right, brother. God bless, man. God bless.

That was a good idea. We have nobody waiting right now. Let me kind of give you a little follow-up on my interesting weekend. Um I flew down Friday. and uh went down to uh California.

and rented a car, drove to the venue, Where the Conference on Islam, Ministry to Muslims, It was great. It was great to a conference. It was in Southern California where I used to live.

So I know the freeways and the people. And my brother and his wife live in a certain city. And it was about an hour drive from the venue, which is fine for me. I like driving. I don't mind driving Southern California freeways.

You do 80, it's nothing. Three car links in distance. That's what I grew up with.

So I enjoyed that. Just doing. doing that and um So the conference went really well, and I spoke on Saturday. And I talked about the Trinity and how the Trinity is a necessary foundation for truth and how it makes sense of everything and how Islamic tawid, which is God one person, can't do that. And I also blended in that the issue of the fellowship of God.

And the love of God, which is fulfilled Trinitarially speaking, without the necessity of anything other than God, but that can't be the case in Islam. And I went through these. And then did a workshop on why the Trinity is necessary for our redemption and went through step by step by step. And had a good time, and a lot of you don't know.

Well, maybe you do if you listen to me long enough. I actually have a good sense of humor, and I had him laughing in a few places, and You know, to lighten the tension. Because when I'm teaching a lot of times in a seminar, I know it can be pretty heady. And so, what I'll do is, I'll just take a 30-second break and do something that makes them chuckle and things like that, and then continue on. And people really enjoyed it, they said it was fun.

And good product. It wasn't a whole fun thing. I'm just saying, you know, just salt and peppered it here and there with some anecdotes and some stuff that just made things lighter. And people enjoyed that, it was great. And got to meet some really good people there.

Just just really good people. And uh you know Dr. Tony Co Costa and and uh Eddie Dalcour and um Oh, I always have trouble with his name. I'll get it later. I have his face right in front of me, and I can see it, and I just can't remember his name.

Oh, I hate that. Oh, he's got a beard. Anyway, really good guys. And it was great.

So, Friday night. I had the opportunity to drive a through the off the uh the five freeway and the ninety one freeway range. And um There was a Let's just say on the 91, it's about a 40-minute drive from where I had to go. And I got online.

Well, I'm I'm driving back from the conference the first night, Friday night. And I get online to um I'm going to slow down with this because it's interesting to me anyway. I got online on Discord again and went into this this room called Calvinism. And It's on one of the servers. I won't give all the details.

It's not a big deal. It's just got into this room, and what's happened there. is a lot of Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics. and even some Mormons go in there and they attack the doctrines of grace. They attack the truth of who what Christ's work is.

They don't realize they are, but they are.

Well, anyway, this is what happens a lot. And I go in there, and for months and months and months, I've tried to be as patient as I can with them. I mean, for months and months. And so sometimes we'll have a discussion and they'll get really difficult and they'll interrupt. And I'll say, please don't interrupt.

You know, let me finish my statement, ask me a question, and interrupt what I'm answering. And then if I interrupt them, then they'll point out how I'm a hypocrite. It's just, it's a battle. It's a war, you know, and they only call out me when I do something wrong, but they never call out their own brothers and sisters when they do something wrong. And this is how it's been like is for months.

And I've really strained over and over. to keep a cool head. You just work with them. And you know Pretty successful.

Alright now.

So, uh So I'm coming back, right, and I get in this room. And it's quiet and I can't see who's in the room'cause I'm just driving and it's at night. And somebody said, Hey Matt, could you give the gospel to this one guy? And I said, okay, who is he? And this guy goes, that's me.

You're talking to me. I said, okay, well, you know, what's your name? And we just got talking. I'm just doing some probing, you know, where he's coming from. And he was foul in his language.

Not foul as in directly trying to be rude or mean. It was just his lifestyle. That's just he just. Breathing and cussing him were just the same thing. He is what you do.

And, you know, I pointed out a few times: well, you know, if you could just kind of refrain from that little video, I'm sorry. We're really polite about it. And I started giving him illustrations about things and started talking to him about.

So, trying to prep him for the reception of the gospel because he was saying he doesn't know if the Bible's true, if God's real, he doesn't know what he believes, but he thinks there's a God, and you know, you know, so that's really what you call early evangelism. And so, I mentioned how you know we're all sinners, and uh, he goes, Well, I don't know if you know what sin is and a whole bit, and so I tried different things. And at one point I said, you know, trying to illustrate the consequence of falling into sin and in the judgment to come. And he said, there is a judgment or afterlife. And I said, have you studied NDEs, near-death experiences, and people who have died?

Many people have gone to these torturous places and they've been brought back. And I just mentioned it. And he says, Yeah, I've heard of these things. I don't know how true they are. I said, Yeah, there's books I've written on them.

They're very interesting. And I'm just trying to use this as an illustration. Yeah, there's. there's stuff that you can look look at and and these things are interesting. And so then I'm prepping him and not trying to manipulate, but just getting him to that place: say, here, I'm going to give you the gospel.

And so I started saying, look, we've all sinned, and our sin causes a separation with God. Us and God, there's a consequence. and this Eastern North Gut Dox guy. then jumps in. And he stopped me.

From presenting the gospel to this guy. He absolutely stopped me and said, What about predestination? And I said, Well, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to this other guy, and I'm trying to give him the gospel.

Well, you have to ask this first before you do that, because what's predestination got to do with this? Because, Matt, we know you're, you know, you believe. And it just. I I had enough with these guys. Because this had happened before.

where they had stopped The preaching of the gospel for me and others. When someone goes to preach that gospel, they want to stop it. They want to stop it. And after all these months of talking to them, That was for me, that was the last straw. That was it.

And I said, that's it. You guys, I said, and another one jumps in, another one jumps in. You don't even have this. What about total depravity? What about that?

Why are you even telling him that it's all true? It just was an attack. It's mocking the things of God. And So I that I wa that was it. I was done with them.

And I started going at it with them. And I started calling them heretics and antichrists because I said, who is it? Who is it? That once the preaching of the gospel stopped, and they would yell at me and interrupt: you don't have the gospel. Your gospel is a false gospel.

I says, what is the gospel then? You tell me what the gospel is. And it was fascinating. Nobody would say it. none of them would say what the gospel was.

none of them would repeat what it was necessary to do for salvation. They only attacked me, accused me, and I I just started calling them Call em names heretics, pagans. False teachers And I got more to talk about after the break. We'll get into some interesting stuff because doing some research on what is the Bible saying about this kind of stuff.

So please stay tuned. We'll be right back after these messages. Give me a call, 8772-072276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can. 877-207-2276.

Now, I'm going to get back on what I was talking about. And um So I'm working on an article in relationship to this. Is it ever right to rebuke a heretic sharply?

Now I'm going to continue here, but I'm going to read something. This is one of the verses that they brought up to me. And I know it well. It says in 2 Timothy 2, 24, 25, The Lord's bondservant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach patient when wronged, with gentleness crediting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance, leading to the knowledge of the truth. And so these Eastern Orthodox heretics false teachers would quote this against me.

And And what's really interesting is, I'm the one who's referenced it to them so many times, trying to be polite, trying to be this, when they were not. and in their their filthy hypocrisy, They uh They would only use Scripture when it would suit them. Against me personally, I tackle them. I'm one of the few people who can actually tackle the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics in these varying rooms, and who knows what to say and how to say and quote scripture. They.

Do not like me. In fact, and I'll tell you some more stuff here. There's a Mormon who is there, and he is seriously, he's one of the more arrogant individuals I've met. And he hides his arrogance by trying to sound patient and calm in his demeanor, as though he's superior. And what's really interesting is since Mormonism is obviously a non-Christian cult, and even the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics know that.

They never rebuke him. They always accept his help, And he's a teacher of a false God, a false Christ, or a false gospel. And yet, whenever he will tackle me about anything, and he misrepresents scripture all the time, they're okay with that. And I've called them out on the carpet on this before. I've said, you guys, you know, you guys realize that you're accepting help from a complete unbeliever?

He's not a believer in the true living God. He's an Antichrist. His gospel of Mormonism, you know, God of an exalted man, you can become God, secret handshakes become God's secret underwear you've got to wear. There's a goddess mother in heaven. I mean, come on.

This is the guy you are welcoming help from to teach you how to get saved? They never like me saying that because I'm exposing their own hypocrisy because they will condemn Mormonism officially, but they want all the help they can get. against someone like me. They'll even go to the false religions, the cultists. I suspect, even if Satanists were in there working against me, they would agree with that as well.

This shows to me the hypocrisy and the spiritual blindness that uh these uh gentlemen uh are guilty of, these representatives of Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

So As I'm going through this, and I told them, I said, I have had it with you guys. You are heretics, you guys are false teachers. And the reason they're false teachers, I'm going to say this, I'm going to say it officially, I'm going to say it clearly, that the official teaching of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy is Antichrist. In the doctrine of salvation, It's a false gospel. It's an absolute false gospel.

They had works to salvation. And because of it, they are outside the camp of Christ. These are false religions, and they are not to be joined with to work ecumenically, not to happen. We are not to join forces with darkness. We're not to side with the heretics who preach things that are false, like you have to add works to Jesus, sacrificing the Christ, the cross to be saved, follow commandments to be saved, and things like this.

It's an absolute False doctrine. From the pit of hell. They also, both these religions, have a false priesthood. Which they tie to apostolic authority, which I've gotten into these things, but I can talk about that too some other time. But they have a completely false priesthood, not found in scripture, not found in the New Testament at all.

These were. Guys in special garments with special authority go up to an altar in a church and offer sacrifices. This is all false doctrine because it's not in the New Testament and it's not advocated in the New Testament. And then these churches also promote idolatry. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to just tell you flat out, they promote idolatry.

Praying to Mary? They pray to Mary, they seek Mary's intercession, she helps them. This is flat-out idolatry from the pit of hell. And It's not me being angry or venting about these. These are things I have been saying for years.

for years. And I I'm able to go into these rooms and uh let's just say, theologically duke it out with the with these guys. And You don't know how much of this I do. I do a great deal of it. And more and more, I'm thinking lately, I'm not really learning anything, and it's not really profiting.

I'm going to start doing some other things. I'll talk about that some other time. But this is the The temperature of the heresy that I will just dive into. I mean th these are flaming heretics. No, I just gotta say it again.

The Roman Catholic Church and the East Orthodox Church, their official doctrines are Antichrist. They are Antichrist. And all who believe in their official doctrines, notice I keep saying this, official. doctrines cannot be saved. They cannot be true Christians.

cannot. It's not to say there aren't true Christians in those churches. I'm just saying that their official doctrines are not of God, not biblical, they're antichrist. And ultimately both of those uh churches are in league with the evil one. and preaching this false gospel and promoting it.

Now I say this willingly and knowledgeably and on purpose. Not because I'm angry. I just know what the Bible teaches, and I know what these heretics have taught, and I've battled with these guys. you know, all kinds of people, all kinds of heretics. And but I battled with these Orthodox Roman Catholics for a long, long time.

And sometimes we have polite conversations, and those do occur. But What I find interesting is when the real work of Satan through these guys occurs, when the gospel goes forth, they stop it. And what is that gospel? Let me tell you what happened. I went back into the conversation.

So I'm they would always interrupt me, and then when I'd interrupt them back, they'd call me a hypocrite. I'd say, You let me finish and and I'd be quiet 90% of the time, give short, quick answers. They'd come on, interrupt and give me these long answers. They were they're just such hypocrites. Yeah.

And I've just had enough of it. And uh So I said, I'm I said, I'm gonna treat you guys like you deserve to be treated. I'm going to treat you according to your own sin, your own unrighteousness, your own rudeness, your own hypocrisy. It says, if I don't like what you're saying, I'm going to jump over your words just like you do on mine. And I said, You guys are heretics and you need to repent of your false doctrines and your false churches.

Your salvation is found in your church And they're interrupting me. It's hard to get this stuff out. I'd have to say it fifteen or twenty times before they were stopped talking so I could ev actually finish a sentence. This is the kind of thing.

Now, this is representative because I've been in other camps, and I'll get back into the conversation that happened, but I've gone into other conversations with other venues, and it's the same kind of thing. Their arrogance that they belong to the true church. Salvation is found in the true church, their church. Their church gave us the Bible. Ooh, they have the authority to tell us what the Bible means.

They're the ones with apostolic authority. They're the ones who are true. Our church is where salvation is found, not in Jesus. their organization. When we get back, I'll tell you a little bit what happened.

that really, really stumped them. I'll get back to that right after these messages. Please give me a call, 877. 2072276, we'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All Robert, welcome back to the show. Nobody's calling. I guess that means you want me to continue on the battle.

Now, this happened Friday night. Then Saturday, when I was driving, because I had an hour drive each, you know, wait, Saturday coming back, and then Sunday going to preach. Yeah. I had to drive I had to drive uh from my brother's place to um To uh, after you know, about a 45-minute drive, and I got back online. And man, they said, Is it true last night you called?

I said, Yes, that's right, they're heretics or antichrists. And you say, I am one, yes, you are, you know, and we went at it. I just told them, right. And um So okay, get this.

So We're having this conversation. It was rude. It was a battle. It was people stepping over each other. It was just a brouha haw.

I'm just getting into it with them, okay? And uh So I finally Finally, I was able to ask them, and this is not a joke, when I would say the same question. Yeah. Yeah. 50 times.

That is not an exaggeration. I literally would ask the same question 30 to 50 times to try and get these guys to answer questions. And it was about the gospel.

So I said, and finally, it was really interesting because it's like waves in the ocean. There's waves, waves, and then all of a sudden there's a lull, and you're like, what happened? And then they ready to come again. And this is what happened. And I asked him a question.

And oh, it hit the fan after that.

Okay. Oh man. I said, let's just say Let's just say that you come across a guy At a car accident, and he's laying on the pavement, and you can tell he's got minutes to live. I said to these Orthodox guys, these are prideful heretics, I said to these guys, I said, What do you have to tell them? What do you tell him?

So that he can have his sins forgiven, that he can go and dwell with the Lord Jesus. What's the gospel you're going to tell him by which he's saved and his sins are forgiven? And No, no. Lie. Dead silence.

Nobody. would answer the question. I went over and I said, I repeated it in varying ways, the same thing, over and over and over. What do you gotta say? And They didn't have an answer.

And you whine you wonder why they didn't have an answer? because they teach a false gospel.

Now the night before it was two nights before I'd asked this question. in passing. And one guy says to said He goes to the guy dying on the road. You got to get baptized to be saved. It's just so stupid.

And I said, that's not the saving gospel. And that was a brief interaction we had.

So one guy did. And I kept asking him, what do you got to do? And I mean nothing. Suddenly they were quiet. All these heretics, all these obnoxious individuals, all of their rudeness, their accusations, their calling me demon possessed, all of them.

were silenced when I asked them, What do you need to tell them? What do you need to tell such a person, by which they can then be saved? No answer. And it was so obvious.

So obvious. And I even remember where I was driving. as I made a right turn. I had to go into in a little while I'd go into a church to preach. And it was great.

I was so thankful for the opportunity to preach God's Word, and it was a great fellowship. Great fellowship with people in Corona, California. But at any rate.

So They had no answer to this question. And the reason, ladies and gentlemen, they don't have an answer to the question, is because salvation is tied up to church membership and church rituals. They don't have hope. Can't give hope to a guy dying on the road. And I said at one point, I said, I used to work at a hospital, which is true.

I used to work at a hospital, and one of my jobs was to carry. The deceased to different places. Let's just say, okay, whatever kids, and be nice. But So I've seen different people in different situations right before passing and after passing. And you know, all kinds of stuff.

The chaplain who worked at the hospital that I was at, went to the church I went to, and I asked him, Is it ever the case that somebody is on their deathbed? And you go in to see them, and you lead them to Christ, and within minutes they're dead. Without hesitation, he said, Yes. Yes, it definitely happens. Oh yes, it's happened.

Many times. And I said, wow. And I told this to these people. these uh these false teachers many times. That this story.

And uh They don't like it. Why? Because salvation is tied up. in church performance, rituals and works. not in salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

Because that's what you would tell someone. And I said, this is what I would tell that man. I'd say we're all sinners. And we need to trust in Jesus Christ who's God in flesh. He went to the cross, he took our sins in his body on the cross, he died with them.

That's what the death was for, dying. And he rose from the dead three days later. And what you need to do is know that you are a sinner before him and that you need to confess him. You need to receive Christ. Ask Jesus to forgive you.

Trust in him and what he's done on that cross that you might. might be saved from your sins. This is what the gospel is. And when I said that in the room, two people said, I didn't even know they were there. They go, Amen, brother.

People were listening. I don't know how many people were in the room. Because I was just driving. But two people finally Say amen to the preaching of the gospel. And I said to the Eastern Orthodox because they were the dominant heretics at the time.

Would you guys say this? You guys are going to do the thought goods? That's what the gospel is? I remember correctly. I think that's what I said to them.

No, just crickets, nothing. You know what the Bible says? Titus one, ten through thirteen and I'll read part of it. For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision. I could just say, especially those of the Cath the Catholic faith or the East Orthodox faith.

who must be silenced because they're upsetting whole families. We can go to Acts 13, and there's the Pericopias 8 through 11. And he says, This guy was a magician, was doing stuff, but Saul was among them, known as Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, fixed his gaze on him and said, You are full of all deceit and fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness.

Now, why am I bringing this up? Because I was saying to these guys, you are Antichrist. You are the spirit of the Antichrist. And you are making your followers twice as much a child of damnation as yourself. It's a phrase from scripture.

You're full of all deceit and fraud, says Paul. You're son of the devil. You enemy of all righteousness. This is the same Paul who said, Be gentle with people. But why the difference?

Because with the heretics who were condemning people and stopping the gospel being preached, he was hard. But those who are open to receiving, he was very gentle. Just as Jesus was very hard on the religious teachers. and gentle with those who are open to hearing, So What they did, they started trying to use Paul against me. This is what's interesting.

They only use Paul or Scripture when it supports their hypocritical mood. And they would quote me, you know. Second Timothy. 224 to 26, which I can quote from memory, right? And so here's some more scriptures.

Nevertheless, I said, you know, I didn't say this to them, but I mean, here's what I'm saying to you now: 1 Timothy 1:19 through 20. Keeping the faith and good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme. This reminds me.

So I'll be in this room talking, and people will bring up this idea of predestination. And they mock The idea of predestination. And they'll say, Oh, God predestined me to say this, Matt. He predestined me not to agree with you, Matt. Oh, man.

I say you should be careful how you speak of these doctrines of God. Because predestination is taught in the Bible, Ephesians 1:5. You can go to Acts 4, 27, 28. It's taught in Romans 8:29. I mean, it's there.

It's in Scripture. I know people don't like it, but that's it. You know, I'll tell you what verses to cut out of your Bible if you don't like it. And I said to these guys: you should be very, very careful of mocking these doctrines of God. I said, read Romans 1:18 through 32.

The wrath of God is being revealed against all unrighteousness. I said, if you're mocking God's word, To stop the preaching of the gospel. Just You are you're the spirit of the Antichrist. Oh, many do not like that. But it's true.

Alexander the 254. Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm, the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.

So there are times in scriptures, there's more I can get into. There are times in scriptures when harsh things are said. And we as Christians need to understand there's a time to be gentle. and it had time to be strong. In your time to stand up, And there's a time to call people heretics for what they are.

Let me ask you. Do the preachers that you know and the teachers you know call people heretics? Not all the time, it's not our hobby, isn't it? I mean, but occasionally, dealing with these kinds of issues, do they say these people are heretics? Or they just never say something like that.

That's a concern. All right, there's the last break, and we'll be right back after these messages. We'll get to Linda from Ohio, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All Robert, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have two open lines: 877-2072276. Let's get to Linda from Ohio. Linda, welcome.

You're on the air. Hi, Matt. How familiar are you with the Hebrew roots movement? It kind of goes along with what you were just talking about, actually.

Sorry. Basic understanding. I can talk about it. Yeah. So, I mean I was raised in the PCA church.

My dad was actually a pastor. My husband was a raised Baptist. And he has gotten just really immersed in Hebrew roots The teachings of Tom Bradford, in particular. And it's just been really confusing for me. I always thought I understood.

uh what I believed and what was true and Um you know, these these teachers, they They all say that you know, none of them believe that keeping the law is what saves you, but that their main text is Matthew five, seventeen through twenty about the law will you know, not a jod or fiddle will pass away until heaven and earth come to an end and that You know, if you really love Jesus, you will keep his commands. That's what, you know, Jesus said. They even say that the Jerusalem Council was Sort of a starter pack for Gentiles, and that the reason they talk about Moses being preached in the synagogue when they kind of finish up that discussion is that. the Gentiles would start with these certain things that they laid out in the council and then they would go to the synagogue and learn how to keep the rest of the Torah.

So I was just wondering what your thoughts were about that and what maybe I could say to my husband.

Well, I'd be willing to talk to him over the phone because it's, you know, I'll tell you stuff here, but he's being brainwashed. And he he's uh he's not aware of certain theological um commitments. that the Bible speaks of. And a lot of people who get into this stuff often go down the rabbit hole even further and further. The Hebrew roots movement is a, let's just say for the beginning on this end of the scale, it Basic Christian movement.

Where it says that true believers need to adhere to Old Testament laws, dietary, Sabbath keeping, festivals, and things like this. And they complain that Christians today aren't doing these things. And, like you said, Matthew 5, 14, the following, he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And they misapply the scripture. They don't know what that means.

And then they try and get people to. adhere to these festivals. There's a range of of people in and from orthodoxy to flat out heresy.

So, some can hold it very lightly and think they need to do these things and stick to their Hebrew words instead of say Jesus, say Yeshua. For example, or Yamaha Mashiach, and they'll say these words, and they say, That's what you've got to really talk like. And I've discovered over the years that those who use those words usually are also legalistic. And I mean very generic.

So It can go from that kind of thing over to a flat-out denial of the Trinity and the deity of Christ.

So there's a large range. All right.

So They will often also say that any you know Holidays like Christmas and Easter are pagan, and you should not keep them. You need to keep only the biblical things to do.

Now, you're familiar with all this, right?

Okay. Okay, so here we go. Covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties. God works covenantally. He speaks.

In the covenant of the inter-Trinitarian communion, election, predestination, application of the redemptive work, and the Trinitarian persons. And I can get into all this and explain it.

So, God works covenantally. The Ten Commandments are covenant document, 10 and 10. Each party, God, and man, gets a copy of the covenant. I get into all that stuff, don't have time. And the Latin word for covenant is testamentum.

Old Testament, New Testament. Old covenant, new covenant. All right, now. When we're looking at this stuff, we have to understand something. these feasts and these things are under the old Covenant.

The Old Covenant. We go to Hebrews 9:15 and start reading. For this reason, he is the mediator of a new covenant. Covenant, so that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of eternal herit inheritance. For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never enforced while the one who made it lives. And he goes on. He says that even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.

Now, that's what I'm trying to show you here: is that the new covenant is instituted with blood. But the death of Christ. When you go to Hebrews 8, 13, when he set a new covenant, he has made the first Obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete is growing old and ready to disappear. The old covenant laws and festivals are obsolete.

This is the point.

Well, Matthew 5:17, you've got to keep the law. No, it doesn't say that. He says he didn't come to abolish law. Of course, he didn't come to abolish it. To fulfill.

And here's the thing.

So my wife And I were married 39 years. We had a covenant. The covenant had a stipulation in it: till death do us part. My wife passed away. in November.

So the covenant ended due to the stipulation of the covenant.

So the fulfillment of the covenant is that we were faithful to each other, served God, raised children, and then when one of us dies first, the covenant is ended. This is what it means to fulfill a covenant. They make the mistake of thinking, no, you have to obey all the laws in it. That's not what it's saying. The fulfilling of the requirements points to the personal work of Christ.

So from this we can go on and we can go to things like Uh Colossians 2, 16. Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink in respect to a festival? or a new moon, or a Sabbath day, things which were a mere shadow of what is to come. But the substance belongs to Christ. They are living in the shadow of the old covenant, trying to keep the dietary laws now.

If they're trying to keep them simply because they think it honors God, they don't impose it on anybody else, and if they also do not believe it adds or maintains salvation, then that's.

Okay, and I say it in quote marks.

Okay. If they, however, start saying you need to keep it in order to be right with God, now they're stepping beyond scripture and they're getting into legalism and problems, and we could just go into that.

Now, one more thing I'm going to share with you, and we can get a comment in there. You go to Romans 14. It says in verse 1, Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things. But he was weak, eats vegetables only.

So we're not saying only vegetables as just all this, but he's talking dietary stuff. The weak people say you can only do this. That fits them. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge the servant of another?

To his own master, he stands or falls, and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Now I can go on for quite a bit, but I'm going to end this my little tirade here, preaching it here, is that they are going to say that you got to keep the Sabbath on Saturday, but Paul is clearly saying you don't have to.

So they're the ones putting people back under the Old Testament law, the Old Covenant, which has been abrogated, made obsolete. And Paul in Colossians 2:16 and also in Romans 14, 1 through 5, repudiates their whole necessity of doing any of that.

Okay? Mm-hmm. There you go. I'd be willing to talk to him. I'd be willing to talk to him over the phone if if that would help.

Yeah, well, I don't think he'd be willing to talk to you, unfortunately, but yeah, I don't know how much more time you have. You know, when it talks about whoever in Matthew 5:20, you know, whoever. Uh doesn't keep these laws and teaches others to do the same will be least in the kingdom of heaven. I mean, he's not coming at it from the point again of salvation, and he's not saying that other people need to do them. This is something he feels he needs to do.

But as far as You know, but Jesus says, if you love me, you'll keep my commands. And, you know, does this mean those of us who don't will be least in the kingdom of heaven? I don't know.

Okay. Oh, keep his commands.

Okay. What I'd recommend you do is go to Carm.

Okay. Okay, Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, Carm.org. And I'm going to type in right now: commands of Christ.

Okay. Yeah, I actually think I read what you had there already. Yeah. There's 31 things that Jesus says to do, and you'd ask him, I'd ask him, are you doing them all? Are you keeping the commits?

What's the reason you're keeping them? Let me tell you, this is a a serious warning flag. You sound intelligent and competent, and you understand some issues. Let me tell you, this probably will get worse for him. Probably.

and he'll become legalistic and start requiring it. Of others. Yeah, it's been a long journey already.

So, yeah. he's eating kosher, he's keeping Shabbat and quit going to church.

So I just don't know what I'm supposed to do. To ask him if he will talk to a guy named Slick. I mean, I doubt if he'd want to, because most of the time the people who are keeping these laws. they have a fence built around themselves of let's just say of a certain attitude. And I've encountered it.

countless times. We know you don't. And so if I say something, well, that's not what the Bible says here, they will contradict it with Scripture, not realizing they're contradicting Scripture with Scripture.

So, they don't like it when they talk to me because I gently and patiently try and show them stuff, and they don't want that because they're convinced. They're correct.

Okay. Yeah, so what do you think about that? You know, we'll be at least in the kingdom of heaven if you teach others, you know, if you don't keep this law and teach others to do the same. You know, and was the thing, all things being fulfilled, was Jesus talking about his resurrection or was he talking about, you know, the end of the age?

Okay, so when he was talking, he was talking to the covenant people of Israel. Jesus was not sent to the whole world. Matthew 15:24, he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was speaking covenantally to the people under the covenant obligation. And he's saying, You're under this law, you're under this covenant, and if you teach people contrary to what God has covenantally required, you're going to be leased in the kingdom.

He's not talking about born-again believers and Christians in the new covenant. This is why covenant is so important theologically for people to understand.

Okay. All right.

Well, I know we're getting close on time, so I'll let you go, but thank you for all that. Call back. Go back sometime. And we can talk some more, okay? You're going to start praying that God will break through the spiritual darkness upon him.

Yeah. In the meantime, I would recommend you check out Tom Bradford and also David Wilber. Tom Bradford has a website called Tora Class, and David Wilber does a lot of videos on YouTube. And they've both done a lot of research, and they're both really convincing. And a lot of this stuff that Paul says, like you were quoting about.

you know, one person thinks of the day this way and the other that. You know, they keep coming back with, well, you don't understand the context and you don't understand the original language and here's what he really meant. They do a lot of that and they can be very convincing.

So it might be something for you to turn around. In other words, when they're done talking, the text means the opposite of what it says. That's what happens to the text.

Well, what it seems plainly to say, and that's what I can't believe God wanted it to be this hard for us for His Word to be, you know, preserved through the ages, that we would all have to know Greek to really understand it. You know, so. Yeah. And I know Greek professors who don't agree with those guys. And they teach Greek in seminary and they don't agree.

So this kind of stuff that they promote, it's bunk. I've been through it a hundred times with people. And we are out of time. But, yeah.

Okay. Okay. Thanks for the call.

Okay, God bless. All right, thanks. You should pray for that situation, folks. And Oscar, sorry about that. But does God allow demonic possession?

Very good. And Elijah, Matthew 5:22. Call back tomorrow, folks. We can talk then. May the Lord bless you.

We're out of time. God bless. Another program powered by the Truth Network.