Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and your list of Matt Slick Live. If you want, as usual, you give me a call. 877-2072276.

And you can also send me an email to info at carm.org. Info at C-A-R-M. Dot org, put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question, one of those. We'll get to it. Today's date is, let's see, September 9th.

2026. No show on Friday. I'll be flying to a conference. And I'll be back no problem on Monday. By Monday, not what.

And I'm going to be speaking in Southern California in Chino Hills Calvary Chapel along with a bunch of others. This is a twenty five year anniversary of the Ministry to Muslims organization, and they're having like twenty speakers come in. And I'll be one of them. And so there's some experts on Islam who just are incredible. Seriously, I love sitting there and listening and just learning from these experts.

And I've talked to George, the guy who heads up everything. I said, George, I don't know what these guys know. And like I said before, he likes what I do doctrinally on the definitions of Christian thought. Christians' definitions about Trinity, deity of Christ, things like that, as they compare then more in more detail to Islam.

So I'll be doing a talk on uh the Trinity as compared to Allah. Yahweh versus Allah, which there's two s topics I'll be working on as a presentation. Which one makes sense of everything? And of which one can we have fellowship and love, which is manifested. I'm going to show the insufficiency of the God of Islam using Scripture logic and various things.

Logic is necessary because you'll see what happens if you're you're there and you hear it. And then to do a workshop on the Trinity as the precondition for redemptive work and how ta'weed, the strict oneness of Allah, can't provide that same necessity and capability.

So, these are the kind of things I like talking about. There's a lot of people that God has called who have different levels of expertise and different ways of witnessing. And I think they're all good. And I learned a lot from a lot of the guys, a lot of the particulars. I like things that are quick and slick.

But sometimes I get into these doctrinal things, and that's what I'll be doing.

So, anyway, just having said all of that, if you want, like I said, you can give me a call, 877-2071-2727. 2276. I want to hear from you.

Now, we've got nobody waiting, so let me just tell you what happened last night. I was in a discussion room on. Two discussions I had, which are very, very interesting discussions. uh on VR. You know, I have the Quest Uh quest three.

And I don't know if the guys listening who paid for it, I really want to say thank you for that. I really appreciate that. But what it enables me to do is you have hand controllers in each hand, one left and right, and you can move forward, backwards, you can go to different rooms, you can do stuff like this. Most people will they can they can watch uh movies in 3D. You can go to these rooms, just watch 3D movies.

Or you can have chat rooms, you can play games, you can do all kinds of stuff. And me I like to witness.

So that's my main goal. Last night I went into a particular room run by an atheist and Believe it or not, the conversation was actually polite. And Uh So It's very unusual that that happens.

So, two atheists actually were having a discussion with it. I went in depth. on the issue of a concept. And I'm going to introduce something to you, which I've talked about, I think, this past few days. Metaphysics is the examination of things that are not physical.

So, metaphysics would deal with things like ghosts, angels, God. uh universals uh things like this. And it's a It's a real area of study.

So, the idea of justice, the idea of mercy and love and the laws of logic.

So metaphysics deals with identity, determinism, free will. The ultimate natures of things. It's really an interesting topic.

So, the reason I'm saying this, and I say this to people, is in this room, they'll say, well, prove to me God exists. And I say a metaphysical being would need a metaphysical proof. And this is something that stops them. Not that I'm trying to stop them from thinking or I gotcha. They haven't heard of that before.

And I said, look. If you want to prove a physical something exists. You just go check on it, or you take a picture of it, or you pick it up, or move it, whatever it is. And this is easy to do, but God is not a physical thing. He's metaphysical.

in that he doesn't have Mass like me, I weigh about 120 pounds or 220 pounds at six feet tall.

Well, that's my weight, and I have a certain mass that corresponds to that weight. And so God doesn't have mass. He doesn't have weight. He's different, like an angel is different, doesn't have a body of flesh and bones. And so metaphysics deals with these intangibles like free will.

or a cause uh identity uh through change. Um So, there's a lot of topics.

Okay, now, so God then fits into the category of metaphysics.

Now, that's not to say we can't develop physical evidences for God, because there's other ways to do that, but. Uh So I said metaphysical topics require metaphysical evidence. And they said, What do you mean by that? And I'm explaining it to them the same way I'm doing this with you. And I said, For example, the laws of logic, or someone's love for someone else, or the concept of justice, the concept of.

Treeness. Uh these are metaphysical kinds of things. And I said, if God is in that area, We don't use the typical scientific methods of taking a picture, weighing it, freezing it, putting it in a container. uh to determine its actuality. And they got that.

These people in the room are listening. And So then, one main atheist and I started having a discussion, and I'm just going to give him kudos where it's due, he was polite. And you'd never heard anything like this before. It's a way to discuss metaphysics and the nature of reality. And I got into the issue of the one in the many.

Is everything made of one thing? Or is everything made of many things? And I went through that, which I've talked about on the radio before, and I had used an illustration. I invented an illustration on the spot. and it seemed to work.

Explaining this, and then we went through something. And this one guy had to leave, and another atheist took over. We went through this discussion from their twenty minutes to thirty minutes. And um He actually said at the end of our discussion when we had to go, you know, part our ways is kind of things to do. And he said, You know, I've really enjoyed this conversation, it's very interesting.

I've never heard this stuff before. It would give me a lot to think about. And I said, well, good, you know, I I said that's fine. And I introduced him to the, and I do recommend you guys hear this. There's a crowd called the Great Debate between Greg Bonson and Gordon Stein, Bonson versus Stein, a debate that occurred in the 90s.

And Bonson, as it was, he passed away, was a Christian apologist, presuppositionalist, reformed in his theology. Brilliant. and Gordon Stein was a well known top atheist. and so they had a debate about God's existence. Long story short.

the atheist got his rear handed to him. And I said this to the atheist. I said, look, I said, it doesn't mean logically that. Atheism is therefore disproven because one guy could not answer the difficult questions. I said, but it is worth listening to because you'll see.

Um you'll see how This stuff works in the metaphysical level. And he says, okay, and he was writing it down. You could tell he was writing. He goes, oh, how do you spell this? And he's writing stuff down.

So he's going to check out this debate.

Now, if you've not heard of this debate, I do recommend you check it out: Gordon Stein v. Greg Bonson, called The Great Debate. Uh Bonson versus Stein, S-T-E-I-N. And Bonson is B A H. and SEN.

When I first heard of this debate, it was on cassette tape back in. back before I moved here.

So it was about twenty five years ago when I first started listening to it. And I would drive to work in San Diego and my old car had a cassette tape and I had this on a cassette. And I had to listen to it twelve times. I remember the count. twelve times before I understood what Bonson was saying.

Because no one had introduced these concepts to me, this was all new. And I was like, man, I got what is he saying? Why is it? And it took me a while to figure it out. I mean, I was gradually getting stuff, but I don't call I don't say I really got it until the 12th, the 12th.

Then I understood, then I could predict what he's going to say, why he's going to say it. I understood the logic behind it.

So it took me 12 times. I said to the atheists, I said, I've introduced you some stuff, some concepts, so you'll probably get it quicker. He says, Me, I went in cold. I didn't know any of this stuff. I had to pick it up and learn as I went.

But for some of you, that may be the same case.

So um I'm reminded of Jeff Durbin. I know Jeff, we've talked a few times, and he listens to that debate every now and then. He says each time he listens to it, he learns something new. And so I do recommend you listen to the Bonson-Stein debate, the great debate.

Now, they had scheduled three debates. and after the first one Gordon Stein withdrew from the other two. He'd had enough. He was crying, uncle. And it's not that Stein was incompetent or dumb.

He certainly is not. He has a doctorate. It's just that, the brilliance of Bonson. and the argumentation that he presented Was very well presented and very well organized and logical, and um. It's really good.

It's presuppositionalism used very well.

So, anyway, that that's that. It was a good discussion, too, a discussion with some atheists and stuff like that, and last night, which I enjoyed. And I went to another place and we just kind of rambled about whatever. But I enjoy Going in and witnessing, oh, and I remember this.

So I went into another venue to an Eastern Orthodox venue. Area. where much of East Orthodox people are as we're in avatars and uh And we talked, and I was in it talking to this one guy for a while, about a half hour. One-on-one. And he's going to be a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy.

And so I was raising up very politely, very slowly, I was raising up issues. And I could tell he did not know what to do with this stuff. And he said, well, he's new, he doesn't have all the information. I said, that's fair. And I said, I got an idea.

I said, try this. Ask your priest. 'Cause they have these priests, right? Ask your priest to show his priesthood. in the Bible, in the New Testament.

And he said, Well, I'm not sola scriptura. I said, Well, you don't have to be. But whatever God says in the Bible, no one can contradict, right? He goes, That's true.

So If this priesthood is true, it should be Uh taught. in the Bible. Ask your priest to show you where in the Bible, in the New Testament, you have a guy with special garments, special authority. who uh offers a sacrifice at an altar. I challenge you to to ask them that and see what happens.

He said he was going to.

So there you go. We have nobody waiting right now. If you want to give me a call after the break, we can get to you. The number is 877-207-2276. Be right back.

I'm not sure if I can do it. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you gotta do.

is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six And You know, I may get online tonight and do some witnessing. I always love doing that. And QA. All right, now.

So I'm working on a project. I'm going to tell you what the project is. And I'm still developing it, but I feel like talking about it a little bit. It's an article that I'm excited about. Yeah.

You know, people get excited about sports. Me, I'm excited about an article. And uh so yeah. Every time I talk like that, I'm reminded of my wife, you know, and I go talk to her, Hey, you want to hear about transcendentals in particulars? And she'd just stare at me.

Yeah. So Uh you know, here I am, the excited, uh excited Part of me. And this idea. Because I debate a lot with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and the reason I do is very simple. those churches teach a false gospel, and if you believe they're official, uh teachings and their false gospel, they're going to hell.

That's it. I firmly believe that. And just because they're old and they claim that they have the true church, blah, blah, blah, doesn't mean it. And so, one of the things I'll frequently discuss with them are these things that they do, which are not found in the New Testament. Uh for example, the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

in that she was conceived without sin.

Okay.

So the it's just an example of something which wasn't recognized until 1854.

Okay.

By the Catholic Church.

So um I'm going to get into some other research about this, but I decided Okay, what are the doctrines that Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholic hold to that are not found in the early church. But are not there. Because they like to say, well, the early church, you know, the unanimous consensus of the church fathers, they all teach the same thing. We are the representatives of the true church, just like it was in the beginning. Blah, blah, blah.

They always say this stuff, they don't do their homework, they don't check.

So I did some research and I had to verify. I got some, you know, I have my Law Goss Bible program, which is a large program. and I can go in and I can just type in, for example, Church Fathers. In the program, and it'll give me books and the sections of the books where stuff is. I can then click on them, it opens up a tab, and I can read through, like I just now did.

I'm doing this as I'm talking. Church Fathers, and it'll give me the some of them well, some of them don't, but they'll give me like the date divisions.

So I went through three separate sources and found some date divisions, generic ones. that are representative of uh the early church fathers.

Okay.

And so the early church, anyway, it goes basically from 70 AD to about 750 AD. And so there's Apostolic Fathers. which uh that is from seventy AD roughly to one hundred and fifty AD. And then anti-Nacean fathers. There's debates on when to start calculating.

So some say a hundred. Yeah. or 150 to 325. I put both in there. And then the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, the Council of Nicaea.

which I've been to this second uh the second council location. I've actually been in the building in Turkey. It's really interesting. Anyway, so that period is three hundred twenty five to four fifty one, and then late patristic period is um three hundred roughly or 451 roughly to 749.

So what I may do is just restrict it to uh the Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers and and just forego the late patristics. I don't know. I it just depends on how the research goes.

So then the next problem was as as you guys know out there, and I've said so many times, I like to take information and make it as easily accessible and understandable as possible. One of the ways I've discovered to do that is simply using tables. You can just get a very easy thing.

So I have this table I'm working on. I'm looking at it right now, and it's on the left, it says Immaculate Conception. And then it has first century columns, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh century columns. And So, I'm looking for dates, and I'll do some more research. on when certain doctrines were introduced.

depending on what the doctrine is. And what's really interesting, first, second, third centuries. The first three hundred years of the Church There's no mention in the Church Fathers about Immaculate Conception. or the assumption of Mary bodily, or praying to the saints, or the veneration of icons. I'm going to verify these things, okay?

Because these are the generic research, okay, that I've gathered over months and months of talking and research.

So A purgatory. Is not there. Indulgences in Catholicism is not there. Transubstantiation, papal infallibility. papal supremacy.

Now that didn't come about until in Catholicism until the fifth century. And then the fourth century, Uh check this out. The Council of Elvira. believe it or not. the mandatory priestly celibacy.

didn't occur until roughly three oh six. Interesting. Mary being the co-redemptrix, co-mediatrix. This is not defined in the first centuries. The rosary, not practiced in the first century.

And so, what I'm going to be doing is going through, and this is where it takes a lot of time. I'm gonna be going through and taking like the Immaculate Conception and just do research. Go to Google, go to Google Research and just type in when did the doctrine of Immaculate Conception first come into being? Or when was it first talked about? and then read articles from scholars, from people, and things like this.

If I need to, I get a quote and and this is how I do it. I research like that. Because I'm not a church history guy and I you know, I wasn't there.

So I can only go with what the experts say. And that's what I'll be doing. But what I'm finding so far, I've done this kind of research off and on now for a few years.

So I have some information already that I've worked on. And And as I do this, I'm going to start saying to them during the first 300 years. When is are these things taught? I asked a, I think it was an Eastern Orthodox guy this, yesterday or day before, and he said the reason these doctrines weren't there is because the church was under persecution at that time. And I said, okay, I understand.

So they understand they're under persecution, so they wouldn't teach these things, right? It says, right. Then what do you do with the church fathers who were during that period they were teaching doctrines? And he was just silent because there are church fathers that exist during those times in the first, second, third century. And if that's the case, Then, what are they teaching during that time?

Because there are writings during that time.

So, just persecution excuse doesn't work.

So for me This is fun. And I know some of you are probably thinking something like, Well, I'm glad you like no thanks. And I'm the kind of guy, it's like I get up in the morning, ooh, good, I get to work on this. And so that's a lot of fun for me.

So, yeah, I'm a nerd in research. I'm a nerd in research, and I get a kick out of it. I really do. I love it.

So, hey, look, if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 877-207-2276. I want to hear from you.

Give me a call. I can also send an email to info at carm.org info at carm.org, c-ar-r-m dot o-r-g. be right back after these messages. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Hello, Robert. Welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it is so easy to do. All you got to do is dial 8772-07-2276. We have nobody calling today.

One of those days that happens every now and then. That's okay. What I'm going to do is get to some of the radio questions that come in. Here's one. Let's see.

There's a lady at church I attended. She went to see a certain person and was healed of pain generational curses and demonic spirits Was her healing from the enemy?

So she would continue following this teacher. She was told others at church and people are going to get their deliverance from this person.

Okay, claims to be an apostle.

Okay.

So I skipped over a few words because I don't like to give names unless I've verified things.

So here's an issue. Generational curses, demonic spirits. What does it mean when someone does this? These deliverance ministries, in my estimation, Deliverance ministries very often cause more problems than they solve. I think that.

When we have the case, where, how do I say this? Where people who don't know theology try and then say, Oh, you're possessed by a demon, or you're oppressed by a demon, etc. And then goes in and starts to tell how they need to be healed. And then the person you it Let me just tell you, I've encountered so many people who've done this and They are just injured. They are injured.

They don't know what to do. They. end up confessing sins to people, saying things, then the person they're confessing it to has power over them. Oh, that's because of this demon that and they're and it just gets worse.

So Generational curses and demonic spirits are generally kind of things that deliverance ministries will say is occurring on a person. And whatever problem they have, They'll assign a demonic force behind it or a generational curse. And now we're going to deliver you. This is how you've got to do this. And people are often.

very vulnerable at that point and it can be injured. Spiritually, emotionally. It's happened a lot.

So my. My um Recommendation is that people be extremely cautious about this kind of stuff. And That if you want to if you think there's something going on and your life is demonically inspired. Then get on your knees. And you pray to Jesus, you ask Jesus.

to reveal things to you. to bind uh ungodliness. to do these things in the spiritual realm that He can do. And be very, very cautious about who you confess sins to. a trusted elder at a church, trusted pastor, I don't have a problem with that.

But a person who says, Oh, yeah, I deliver people from demonic oppression. Warning flag right there. warning flag because Oh, they'll find something that you need to be taken care of about.

Something in your, oh, you have this, the demon of lust, the demon of financial apathy, you know, all this stuff, and they'll say this: this is a generational curse because someone in your family 100 years ago did this, and this is why. And how do you verify this? You don't. And it causes people problems and consternation. All right.

All right. Okay.

Here's one, let's see, about a real question. I love the idea of taking The classes, the schools, I have to admit my time is limited. What are the chances of getting an audio version? We don't have any audio version of them. But we may after a while.

We're working on some stuff early. Um Early stuff.

Sorry.

Sorry.

At any rate, we're trying to figure this out, and honestly, he'd actually pay more for the class if he'd get an audio book. Just uh something to consider. You know Man, I've got so much to work on. It just, it's me whining. It's like so much to work with, or work on.

And I'd love to convert the if they're gonna rush on and buy people uh I I'd love to convert the schools to audio and/or video and just sit there and teach each lesson. Don't play. The problem with that the problem with it is um that I need help. Boy, if I need help. People are my friends are going amen to that.

So uh Yeah, I too.

Okay, I'm kind of rambling and stumbling over my words right now.

So um I've got this one room. In my house, it's 320 square feet room for real. and it's like fifteen feet wide by twenty two feet long. and I want to turn it into a a video uh area. And I'm such a doofus when it comes to this stuff.

I don't know what the right colors are. I don't know what the right backdrop is. I don't know what the, I just don't know. And, um, I'm good with numbers. I'm good with patterns.

I'm good at being annoying to people. I'm not good at this video stuff.

So, I need to get something set up with a camera. I got a really nice camera, I got lights. I need to have a backdrop, something. If you, if you're out there, And you're good at this. And you know you're good at it, and you could s you could contact me and say, Yeah, I can help you with this.

You know, get you get my get on a phone call and do video, phone call, whatever it is, and show you the room. You know, what do you think? Here's the color of this wall. What do I do? Just put nothing on it?

And uh Stuff like that. Um That's uh that's a concern I have. And I want to do this because what I want to start doing is just sitting in front of the camera. and just start teaching. Just start teaching on all kinds of topics.

One of the things I'd like to do is go through the schools. Print up one lesson. And just put it up in front of me and just read through it as I'm talking into the camera, scan it first, and then go through it, and then add lib extra stuff because I know a lot of you know, I know a lot of things, and I can put this verse in there and draw this together, and then people could listen to it. We could extract the audio, so that's one of the things we want to do. But I need someone who would do the audio extraction, do the video work.

I just do the raw stuff. Here's the file, you take care of it because I've got too much to do. Wine, wine, whining. It's a good thing, whining is biblical because Paul, the Bible says, take a little wine for your stomach, so I can whine.

So there's that. And I also want to get in front of the camera and just start doing things like: this is why Eastern Orthodoxy is bad. Let me give you this, you know, number one, number two, number three, and go through. And I need to have some people who can. Help me out because it's just too much work to set all the lights up, set all the audio up, set everything up.

Because once I get it set up, we just leave it, turn the switches on, then go sit. And you gotta do, you know. I could see a video, you know, we had the credits. uh directed by Matt Slick, lighting by Matt Slick, uh sound by Matt Slick, you know talent by Matt, well kinda by Matt Slick, you know. Uh editing by Matt Slick.

It's just it's just too much. And so it's one of the struggles I have to deal with. Among other things, And one of the other struggles is the finances to pay for this.

Now Um So we have issues. I'm going to just talk because no one's calling, I'm going to just ramble a little bit about the ministry here and tell you some stuff. That's one of the projects I've got to do, and I really do feel led that I need to start doing video work a lot. And um It is on my heart of my mind. I'm going to get it going.

I'm going to get it done. We'll get it figured out.

Now this all I've got the camera, I've got the lighting, and may have to purchase a backdrop or a couple of props. Nothing major. I always look at what I've got and try and work it that way. And so um It takes time, it takes effort.

Alright, so having said that, one of the things we need to do is get one of the many things we need to do is get the schools, the Carm schools, converted over from uh the format and style they're in now to something better.

something that Uh well be able to handle the bot traffic uh forego any Um A tax and various things, and a system where people can go in and take the audio sneeze coming up, hopefully, I don't have the sneeze, and where they can go in and do this. And so I'm going to start raising the funds for that project. Because we do need, we need, it's a real legitimate thing. We need to do that. And it costs thousands of dollars to do this because we've got to hire a programmer.

We have a guy who's very good. And you know, he workman's worthy of his hire. If I were to ask him to do it for almost nothing, he probably would agree, and that's not fair to him. And so he's trying to feed his family. And uh I don't believe in taking advantage of people.

I believe in in paying them and helping them out. And um always I'm always concerned about that. And so I've already started talking to him about that and designate this amount of money for this kind of original. Beginning this thing I want to do.

So we're trying to do that. Another project is to get the Spanish site converted over to the Carm. format and then the Portuguese side c converted over. And the totals for probably all of these things is probably gonna be $20,000 for all of these things. It's gonna take a bit.

And maybe even more, but That's just what it is. Because we need to move forward and even though we're broke, I'm trusting God. That he's gonna provide and he'll bless because he is so good. We write back after these messages, then we'll get to Dave from North Carolina talking about original.

So we write back, please. Take child. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Oh, Robin, welcome back to the show.

If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8-7720-72276. Literally, during the break, I'm texting with our programmer about the issue of getting the school started. We have a little bit of funds, not much, but I said, How about this much? And you just do as much as you can for that amount, and then we'll see what happens. And it's a go.

So, we're going to be just trusting God moving forward little by little. Just as we're building a a building little by little until it gets done. We're trusting him, and we do need your support in that whole endeavor. If you like the radio show, you want to want me to still stay on the air for all these years, all you got to do is go to carm.org, c-ar-r-m.or-g. And at the top of the page, you will find the word donate.

And if you were to go there and check it out, That would be so Helpful because it would be helpful. And you can, we just ask $10 a month. That's what we would really like. $10 a month. And if we get a thousand people doing that, we can pay our bills.

All right, let's get to Dave from North Carolina. Dave, welcome. You're on the air. Hi, David. I'm good.

I just want to talk with you about what you're doing. I want to talk to you about the concept of original sin. And because of that, a child is born with a sin nature, their natural proclivity towards sin. My pastor described it like this: a two-year-old child, you don't have to teach him. not to knock face off the table.

They know to do that. It's her favorite word, it's mine. And if you don't instruct them and discipline them, you're going to have a proud on your hands. Training for child in the way he should go, he'll never depart from it.

So it's that's the or uh concept of original sin from David. We're born with this a bent toward rebellion, is that correct? Yes, it is correct.

So there's a doctrine called federal headship that not many people know about. It's as important as the doctrine of the Trinity, etc. Federal headship is the teaching that the male, not the female, represents the descendants. As I've said so many times, Adam and Eve were in the garden. She sinned first, but sin entered the world through Adam, Romans 5, 12.

In 1 Corinthians 15, 22, in Adam all die. When you go to Romans 5, 19, it says, through the transgression of the one, the many were made sinners.

So this is a doctrine of original sin in that the sin of Adam is imputed and reckoned to us, and we inherit the guilt, we inherit the stuff, as well as a fallen nature.

So the pastor is correct. You don't have to teach a child to be sinful. You don't have to teach a child to be selfish. This is because we are by nature children of wrath. Ephesians 2, 3.

We're dead in our trespasses and sins. Ephesians 2.1.

Now, some people will ask the question: does it mean all babies who die are damned? And the answer is no. The Bible doesn't say yes or no to the question. I don't believe that babies go to hell. I have my reasons for that, but I can't prove it from Scripture.

Just an opinion I have. And so God is merciful, God is gracious, but federal headship is correct. And if people deny original sin, That Adam represented us when he fell, then you've got to be consistent and deny the representation of Christ on the cross where he represented us when he fell, when he said. I mean, come on. Two heresies.

When he died for our sins and redeemed us, okay? Ah. Yeah, yeah. I I I got I like that explanation, but but that's essentially why if if you see a child where the parents do not discipline their child, that they've they it's become they've become a spread essentially. Would you agree with that primary reason because of that natural bend?

Yeah, we need to discipline our children and doing it properly takes wisdom. They need to be guided and corrected, just as God does the same thing with us, even as adults. He disciplines those whom He loves, and that's what parents should be doing with their children. It's not that they hate their children, it's that they need to guide them and shape them to do what is right before God. And Christians need to administer a consistent discipline.

With them, not setting the mother against the father and not being inconsistent because it confuses the child. But it needs to be done lovingly and patiently and kindly. And when you make mistakes, you admit them and you move forward. And that's what needs to be done, okay? In your earlier explanation, which was great, you seem to hint at you're not of the concept that some that it's that a person is beyond the age of accountability, before this time you can't really hold the child accountable.

They don't know. What's your thought on that? I see nothing in scripture that says age of accountability.

So, what we do see in Scripture, Jesus says, suffer not the children to come to me. The kingdom is such as these little ones. It doesn't mean they're innocent, because we are all by nature children of wrath.

So the Bible just doesn't tell us about this.

So I can't either. And I just hope, I just hope that all the little ones who die go to be with the Lord. That's my hope. I can't prove it. But I just hope that that's what it is and that because I want to and since the Bible doesn't sell say this, so that's what I lean towards.

And since I've lost a child shortly after birth, it also helps me emotionally, spiritually, to believe I will see him again, just as David said to his son who died at birth. I will go to meet him, I will see him. And so You know, so for the gap, okay.

Okay, okay, that's that's the neat to What you're saying is, there's nothing really biblical about the idea of the age of accountability. That's something that. Based on our I guess we we it's sort of contrived intellectually that, well, this this three or four year old doesn't know what it means to be baptized. They don't Know what it means to receive Jesus into the heart necessarily.

So, how can they be held accountable? It's a human input into that. Is that where he's saying? Kind of. And I'm reticent to continue with that because look at Psalm 22, 9.

And it says It says there, you, yet you, God, are he who brought me forth from the womb, you made me trust when upon my mother's breasts.

So that verse. When I found it, I was like, oh my goodness. A nursing babe, God says, He says, You've made me trust while I was there.

So, does it mean that a child can't have faith? I can't say that's yes, I can't say it's no. God grants that people have faith, Philippians 1:29. Is it possible that He could do that to a child? I would say yes.

Then we get into logistics of nature versus person. And this gets more philosophical. Natures are just abilities, but persons act with those abilities. And we have, how does infancy affect the person, which is based upon the nature? And it gets more complicated.

I'm not going to get into that now.

So I just say, Lord, it's up to you. And I just hope that, and we'll just lean towards the idea that all babies go to heaven.

Okay.

Do you have time for one more comment or do you need to move on? I want to respect the time. Go ahead. Go ahead. Apart from that, You see a lot of parents having their child baptized at the age of two or two or three or really young, even when they're born.

And baptism is a public profession of faith, and if the child doesn't know what the act is actually doing, Then you would say that that's where that's an age where you can't do that. Would that be fair to say? Um the pa I say the parents uh depending okay, there's two views, infant baptism or not infant baptism. Infant baptism is defensible from Scripture if you understand covenant and you understand that it's not for salvation.

Now it's not explicit in Scripture.

So I say to the parents that they don't believe in that, that's fine. If they want to baptize their children once the children make a profession of faith, it's up to the parents to decide that. Because they will know if their children have or have not, they know that their children better than we do. And so I just say it's up to you. It's up to you and what you think your child's capable of, what you believe.

I just trust 'em. Right.

Okay.

All right. Thanks for your insight into biblical theology. You're so well studied and taught in it. And it's in itself for me and my group. I just want to say thanks for that, and I'll drop off with that.

And have a good evening, brother. All right, brother. God bless.

Okay.

God bless and thanks. You know, I'm gonna just comment about what he just said. I was uh taking a shower yesterday and I was praying. And uh I was reviewing my early life uh as a Christian. And Just suffering.

over some of the things. that I did even as a Christian. And that now I look upon. with disdain. And And I can't help but wonder sometimes.

why God was so gracious. I was a believer. And yet I I had one foot in the world, one foot in in the church. and trying to waddle uh between them f uh failing um many times. And so I was in the, you know, I love to pray in the shower.

And I don't pray out loud in the shower jungle, but I did yesterday. And I was just talking to God. about So um Wh why? You're so merciful. through that time.

Why? he has called me, and granted to me, so many things. to be able to do. and to be used for his glory. And It is only because of his complete and total grace.

and nothing but That. And that's how we all are. I'm sure that as a Christian, you might look back on your early life in a lot of areas. And wince at some of the memories that you've got and at the things you've done, even as a Christian. and you wince and you turn away from them quickly because There's shame there and guilt.

And then you just turn to the cross. for all the theology and the logic and the studies that I've done, I am honestly bewildered. Still. Why God? would take a filthy, vile sinner involved in the occult, in foul language and pornography.

And Then say I'm going to use you. Nothing. But God's grace. And this is how This is how we should look at our lives before God. And We need to make sure that we don't take credit for the grace of God in us.

even our believing, is his work. He grants that we have faith, Philippians 1:29. Our believing is the work of God, Jesus says in John 6:29. We can't come to Christ unless God grants it to us, John six sixty five. Even the fact of your belief.

Even the fact of any part of humility that you might have in your heart, and I'm saying this carefully: hey, look how humble I am. Anything like that only is from God. Only from God. And so it's a great privilege that I have to be on the radio, to write, to teach. It is an exceedingly great privilege.

and am bewildered. Why God with his youths? such a carcass of decay. Uh for his glory. And Not only me, but...

you too out there. that he would condescend to use someone like us. in the world. As I like to say. If he's got to resort to using people like me, I say about myself, I say, then it's got to be pretty bad out there.

But all I can say is, God is good, God is kind, God is merciful, God is gracious, God is consistent. And that we need to trust in His mercy beyond our ability to understand. And so when people say thanks, Matt, My immediate reaction is to say, Give the glory to the Lord Jesus Christ. Because he's the one who deserves it. He's using a broken vessel.

a foolish man. to accomplish his good will. by his grace and nothing but his grace. And that's just how it is. That's how it is for all of us.

May the Lord bless you. There's the music. I will be off the air tonight, of course. Back on tomorrow, Lord willing. No show Friday, because I'll be traveling.

May the Lord bless you and I hope you have a great evening, everyone. God bless.

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