Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. I hope you're all having a good time. And if you are interested, you can give me a call. That is easy to do: 877-20-72276.

Also, you can send me an email, info at carm.org info at carm.org. Put in a subject line, radio comment or radio question, and we can get to them. All right, a couple of announcements, not a big deal on a Mond I mean Thursday, Friday we were off because they had radio assuming they had phone problems.

So There you go. And next Monday, I'll be off because it's Labor Day. What day is that? Memorial Day? And so it'll be off then, but uh no big deal.

And um Mm-hmm.

So, I'm going to be in Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills, California, 9:11 to 9:13.

Now, the radio show doesn't get broadcast down there, but a lot of people who listen are down there. And if you go to Carm.org forward slash calendar, you'll see the the uh the schedule and stuff there. Um looks like I'm speaking on Saturday. You'll see that I just found this out. I just got it and put it on today that there's a way to get a discount, a significant discount for going in.

If you want to do that, the information is on the carm.org forward slash calendar. There you go, you can check that out. Also, we're working on some new stuff, and I got some ideas. I'm gonna be teaching some stuff on presuppositionalism and how to get through. To people and things like that.

There's a lot of stuff I needed to do and And get to. In the meantime, let's get to Jermaine from California. Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt.

Um, today I had a question about how to properly biblically interpret dreams and visions. And um You know, I know a lot of people claim they have them. What brings us up real real quick is A good friend of mine who was an onpologist out here in the San Francisco Bay Area, Dr. Buckner. He was very ill and I was supposed to go and see him.

a couple of weeks ago, and I had made a decision to postpone it. And I prayed about it. I actually turned around halfway on the road. And during prayer, I felt God was telling me, go. See this person.

So I get over there and um everything seemed to line up there. There's one space in the whole building left, right up front and I figured that was for me. And when I visited him, I knew That was probably the last time I would see my old friend of life. He had been battling cancer and the treatment was quite harsh. That was on a Wednesday.

and I I left, had to cut the business short. And then I got a message on Thursday that he's not expected to live long. He was gone the next day. Wow. And that that really had a profound effect upon me because it is again God reassuring that we're not all crazy and He answers these prayers and does these things.

in his own way to let us know he's there, but at the same time, it was just such a powerful feeling inside me that I had to go. And it turned out to be true, but How do you properly interpret those things? Because sometimes it could be your flesh or sometimes the spirit, we don't know. It's exactly right. We just don't know sometimes.

In fact, you reminded me of a story, which I'll tell after you hang up, where it was one of those. But. Yeah, you know I think that the way for the average Christian to tell is through experience, through habit, through you know, when you made a mistake, I know I heard that voice, that inner feeling, you know, you need to go, and you didn't before and something happened and you wish you'd gone. And you get used to that. And then you start saying, you know, listen to that.

And so, I think that's one way to learn as far as. As far as knowing exactly. Uh I couldn't tell you. But I think that when there's a prompting that's in your heart that's consistent, continue, which I think that That is what uh That that's what you gotta pay attention to. That's what I think.

And just, you know, just try and see what happens, you know? That's what I would say. What you can do.

Okay, yeah, no, I think that's a very honest answer. Pretty much what happened.

So, yeah, I appreciate that answer.

Okay, good.

Okay, well good.

Well God bless, man. All right. Good. Yeah, I'm going to tell a story if you're going up because I got one like this, too, a profound one. All right, buddy.

God bless.

Alright, bye bye.

Okay. Yeah.

So, um Okay, we've got nobody waiting right now, so I might as well fill in the time with a story. This is true. My late wife, she had a brother, and he's since passed away. But I'm gonna just say it was I don't know eight years ago or so And he was moving, and his wife was in Utah, and he was moving. From one place in Utah to another place in Utah.

His wife had had a stroke earlier. You had an autistic son who was basically incapable of helping, and a daughter who was. Let's just say Not helpful. Let's just put it that way. Not very helpful about a lot of stuff.

kind of self absorbed and uh only wanted to hang out with her friends, wouldn't help mom and dad, wouldn't you know, just was gone a lot.

So it fell on my wife and I to go to drive five hours and spend three days, three, four days, helping him pack. a three-story house. and plus a basement.

So, a two-story house in the basement, that's right. Two-story basement, I think it's what it was, or was it three? I can't remember. And so, it's a lot of up-and-down stairs, a lot. And so, we were there.

And um Yeah, anyway.

So we had driven down together, and I was there for a few days and. I'm trying to remember a few details. It doesn't really matter.

So the daughter, her name was Audrey. And Audrey and I spoke, and I said, You know, you need to help your mom and dad. You know, they're moving. And your uncle and your aunt have come here to help. And, you know, what do you think about helping?

And she says, no, I don't have time for that. And she just walked out. And so That's one day, and the next day, you know, we're helping, and I. I was feeling very, very anxious about getting home to finish some projects I needed to work on. I needed a a couple of a days' break, and the plan was for me to come home for two days, work on some stuff, and then drive back out and help for another couple of days.

Because it was just me basically, and going up and down stairs carrying lots of stuff. It was just exhausting. And it was pretty much spent. And so Um We had this Nick and I my wife and I were uh sleeping by a in a in a in a room that was right next to the front door.

So, anyway, so she says, okay, you know, just go home for a couple of days, then come back. About a third of the way Oh, I'm a fourth of the way home. this feeling just like with Jeremy Germ uh Jermaine was saying, this feeling and it was strong. And it was so strong. That it was just so persistent that I had to go back, I had to go back, I had to go back.

And I didn't want to do it, and I just it just kept getting stronger and stronger, so persistent. That each time now, when I drive by the one sign where I turned around. That's what I think of every time I go there. It was so strong. I finally got off the freeway, turned a U.

Start heading back. It was gonna take an hour to get back, hour and fifteen, twenty to get back. And I called my wife, and I said, Look, I just think the Lord wants me to stay. And she says, Okay. And I thought it was a lord, because I couldn't figure out why else.

And so turned around and went back and and um Continue to help. And I think it was. Actually it was that night, now I remember.

So we're helping and exhausted getting food and things like that, and finally, it's time to retire. Everybody goes to bed. In about uh three or four in the morning there's a knock on the door. And I get up because I'm the closest one there, and I open the door, and there's two police officers. and a woman.

there and street clothes. And I said, uh oh. Oh man, something bad happened. It had to be to Audrey. 'Cause you know it's it just made sense.

Andy said, are you uh mister Davison I said no, I'm his brother in law, and so I'll wake him up. And he says, Good. And they said, come on in. And so they came in. And I knew something, you know, I knew.

something was bad it happened. And after all, this feeling I had, I had to be back there. I had to be back there.

So uh I don't wake up, uh, you know, him and and his wife, and they both come downstairs. And uh they said, Is your daughter Audrey? And she they said yes, and they said, Well. I'm going to say this over the radio politely. She had uh purchased flammable liquids.

and then used them uh for self uh immolation. And a Yeah. And uh So There you go. And You know, the Lord knew that was going to happen, and it's just an example. of Sometimes the Spirit will speak to us.

You've got to go back. You've got to do this. Don't do that. Just do that. And you listen to it, and you learn to listen to it.

Now, when I hear that, I feel that. I go, I'm done, I'm listening. And it was just a dramatic time. And uh So, you know, we had to be there for a few days and uh And then, so I've got a break coming up, but then the Autistic Sun. Uh this is the next day uh that the police had left and the whole bit.

And um So he the the father and wife were down the street explaining to neighbors what had happened.

so it was just my wife and I in the house, with the autistic son. And uh So the front door is there. To the left is the room where my wife is. and we're taking a break, and um I look down the hallway towards the kitchen and he's standing there with a knife in his hand staring at me. This is just more of the story.

And so he's staring at me and I called his name and I said, How are you doing? and he didn't say anything. And you know, look at this knife in his hand. And um I said, Well, uh are you okay? and nothing.

And I said, uh, you you want to put that knife down? and nothing. And my wife heard this, and she got her head out. And he loved her. And she said, put the knife down, and he wouldn't do it.

So I I just whispered, 'cause the the mom and dad are gone. I said, I know what's going to happen here. Call nine one one. She called 911.

Well, I've been doing martial arts for years, and knife disarms, gun disarms are part of what we do. And I'm going through all these scenarios in my head what to do. I'm going to protect my wife. and whatever I got to do and and just do you know whatever. And I sat there with him for another two minutes and you know made sure that my wife had locked the door and everything was okay.

And then finally he turned around, went back in the kitchen, put the knife down. Cool. About a minute later the cops get there. And they come in, I say, everything's fine, everything's this, everything's that. And uh you know he'd he was autistic and wasn't processing the the death of his sister.

And so You know, it it's interesting. And I'm going to just say this, that death is a rude visitor. It comes into your life. like a bull in a china shop. and it just wreaks havoc.

It just breaks things as it travels through, just damaging everything in its wake. And then. There it goes. and you're left to pick up the pieces. and people are affected by it.

in some horrible ways.

So I have this devotional Death is a rude visitor, and it's on Carm. Because it it is. It's just not easy. I know a lot of you out there have gone through similar things, had similar experiences. And um you know you have my sympathy.

All we can do is pray, ask God to bless, and then we can survive these kinds of things. Yeah.

Anyway, that was just uh a thing off of the idea of uh Hearing the voice of God, you know, that prompting of the Spirit. and to do something. and go visit someone.

Well turn around and go back. There's the music. We write back after these messages. Give me a call. We have three open lines.

877-207-2276. We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show.

Just found out that we had phone problems on Thursday, Friday. It turns out it looks like. Um We only have one open line right now.

So if you call in, we only have one person waiting.

So if you call in and there's a busy voicemail, just I'm listening. I mean, you can be listening on the air and hang up. Just call in. And we have one open line.

So we just found this out. That's the way it goes sometimes with stuff. Let's get to Elijah from Pennsylvania. Elijah, welcome. You're on the air.

Hey, Matt, I have a question about what what these Muslims had said recently on On a debate with Christian women, and the Muslim women had said this. I don't think I've ever heard a Muslim bring this up before. They said that Christianity teaches uh teaches the the bail doctrine Of human sacrifice because we believe that Jesus, you know, human sacrifice. Um stop the guide's, uh, crash. against us and uh they say that this is Um This is something that's taught in Baal occultism.

So how would you respond to a Muslim who says something like that? In Surah 22, 34-37, that's in the Koran. It says, To every people, we did appoint rites of sacrifice that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals fit for food. But for Allah, one is Allah, submit then your wills to Him, etc. And so it does talk about sacrificing there.

In fact, in verse 36, the sacrificial camels we have made for you as among the symbols of Allah.

So in Surah 22, 34-37, it talks about sacrifice. And So it says it's not their meat, not nor their blood that reaches Allah. It is not their meat. It is your piety that reaches. But there's the word sacrifice is used there in the Quran in Surah twenty two.

So you could respond and say, well then why does the Quran teach sacrifice?

Now they're going to s respond, well, well it's human sacrifice, not animal sacrifices. See, well then you okay, so then He's saying human sacrifices, but Baal. was a pagan god. and uh he was capricious, and it was to change his mood. the sacrifice of Uh in Baalic worship was taking people and offering them to make uh BAL happy.

And this is paganism. In Christianity, the sacrifice is God Himself offering Himself, becoming one of us, and thereby becoming the One who then would appease The wrath of God through the requirement of the law, because the wages of sin is death. When you die, or when you sin, you're separated from God, Isaiah 59:2, and that wait us in his death. Genesis 2:17, Romans 6.23.

So the death is what God Himself in the person of Christ experienced on the cross, which is also the means by which sacrifice atonement occurs.

So I say to them, you're confusing Baal worship with the self-sacrifice of God. Not the Baal worship of sacrifice of others to appease a capricious God.

Okay?

Okay, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Um Uh I do have uh more questions on the shot if I get these to you as Sure, go ahead. Yeah, so my next question is out of Revelation 22:14. I tried to call in.

I think it was last Monday about this, but it was like the end of the show, and we can talk about it. I noticed something that somebody pointed out in a YouTube video a while ago. And they said that the King James and the New King James teach a works based Gospel compared to all the other translations when you look at Revelation 22:14, because King James, the New King James, says. And blessed are they that do his commandments, that they might have right to the tree of life. But all other translations say, Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they might have the right to the tree of life.

Washing your robe is talking about being washed in the blood of Jesus to wash away your sins. versus doing the commandments to achieve salvation.

So, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that King James, New James are teaching working-based salvation there? And where did the King James, the New King James, get that, get that. version of from because I don't I don't know where they got that wording from. That's a good question.

And I don't have my Greek New Testament with me. I could get off here. I don't want to have dead air, though, but I can go back into my closet and get my Greek New Testament and take a look at what's called the textual variance inside the textual apparatus to see. But maybe I'll do that during the break. But generically speaking, the King James.

Uh manuscripts uh I think they were translated from the 10th to the 12th century manuscripts, and newer translations are done with much older manuscripts.

So this is uh I see uh I'm gonna say research this really fast. I remember hearing this, and so I'm not an expert in historicity or the ages and which Bible uses which manuscripts, which would be a good study project for me. But, nevertheless, so. The general consensus is that the newer the manuscript relative to us, the copy, the more likely is it's going to have a textual variant in it. The older manuscripts are considered more trustworthy and reliable.

This is not to say that the Bible is not trustworthy, it's just the fact that when people copy things, uh variants occur. And this is just the way it is.

So the New Testament text receptus from Erasmus, usually 12th century minuscules. Minuscules are lowercase. And uh So There we go. Fifteen. Yeah, there we go.

All right. Okay, so that's why that's important.

So 12th century, that means 1100s.

So the newer Bibles Uh like the ESV and the NASB Uh Let's see. They were translated from documents like 200, 300, 400 years old. I mean not years old, I mean dated from having been copied back then, like a thousand years earlier.

So what I'm going to my initial reaction is to say that the material found in the King James is an addition. And that is it, I wouldn't trust the King James as a serious study book. I would use the NASB 2020 or the ESV or the uh legacy standard biable or something like that. That's what I would do.

So that's what I would say it is. If I go go back into it and look. Yeah, and that should also add I should also add that people who believe in believe in works-based salvation, like Sean Griffin, they'll use the King James version of Revelation twenty two, fourteen that proves their works-based salvation doctrine. Yeah, that's very interesting. I'm glad you brought that up to me because I want to check it out.

And I want to do a study on it, and that's good to know. I've not had anybody basically use this. But blessed are they to do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates of the city.

So, um When people bring up verses like this, I ask them, keeping his commandments, which commandments you got to keep? And I say, I need a list. Give me two, three, four, five. What are you going to do? and they'll give me this list.

And I'll say, are you keeping them? And I try and hammer them on the idea that their righteousness, self-righteousness before God isn't going to work. But, nevertheless, it's a King James-ism, and it's unfortunate. I wonder if. I wonder if I'm going to look at this because I didn't write the King James section.

Luke Wayne did. on Carm, And so, during the break, you know, okay, it's a break coming out, so hold on. I'm gonna go get my Greek New Testament and be back, okay, brother? Hey folks, we got a break coming up, and if you want to give me a call, all you got to do is wait till I only have one line open. The number is 877-207-2276.

I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All Roberti, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Elijah.

Did some research during the break. Elijah, are you still there? Yeah, and before you say what you have to say, I just wanted to say this. I just discovered this during the break. I scroll down to the Catholic translations and uh you know you know the Catholic translations are usually some sometimes similar to the King James, but even the Catholic translations like the Dewey Reems Bible and the Catholic Public Domain Version, they both say, Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb.

So even these translations agree with all of the translations, but the King James is the white odd one out. Yes, and I found out why. Um I did some research here.

So Wash the robes has what's called the Codex Siniaticus fourth century, Codex Alexandrinus fifth century, Codex Aphram Receptus fifth century.

So those are the ones that are are translated by The NSB Uh ESV, etcetera. The King James was through from Erasmus, who had only one Greek manuscript for the whole book of Revelation, a twelfth century copy missing uh some stuff.

So where this is why he did did this, it's why it's there. And Um I'm reading through my notes.

So There you go. That's why. It's because it's a textual variant that crept in, and it was the King James that says that.

Now if I were to go here, I'm going to see text comparison. Um Let's see, wash the robes, ESV, wash the robes, King James, keep to his commandments. Commandments, King James. RSV, wash their robes, L E B. Wash, NIV, wash.

CSB wash. I'm looking. And Dewey Rames, ASV? I just I just found a couple more translations. I found two translations from the Aramaic.

So the Alamza Bible and the Aramaic Bible in plain English. It says both of these also say blessed are those who are doing his commandments.

So I just found a couple more that say the same thing. Yeah, if I remember correctly, stay with the Lampson Bible.

Okay, it's got some occult stuff in it. I think the guy who did it was pretty bad. trying to remember this research on that as well, but gonna stay away from that. But yeah, so this is what's going on. It has to do with third-fourth century manuscripts versus twelfth century manuscripts.

So in other words, a thousand-year difference. And the crept in, and so it's one of the Um One of the more cited, as my research says, one of the more cited potential variants. All right. Yeah, and talking about this, uh that reminds me of um what Jesus said in the verses later on in the chapter, which says, do not change anything that is that is written in this book. It seems that somebody did exactly that, and they made those Right.

Well, it could happen, but you see Here's the thing. You could have a manuscript sitting in front of you, have a guy working on it, a monk in a. closed room. where he's working with a candle and a primitive implement of writing, dipping it into ink, periodically writing, being very careful, knowing that this is uh sacred literature. And he could make a mistake, and mistakes have crept in like that.

Like the word the, which is just a simple oh with a mark above it. uh is a simple letter and you can copy it twice or forget it or omit it. If it's at the end of a manuscript line and you go go the next line, you you miss. There's various things can happen. And they're these are well annot uh analyzed and attested to.

Sometimes what they would do Is write notes in the margins of something. Let's say they had a manuscript and somebody was just tired. And he, you know, it happens. This guy's so tired, he's writing, and he writes something that he just skipped a line and wrote something. Oh, man.

Well, they. Uh What they would do then is make a correction in the margin. Generally, And then they would take that page. They would do one page at a time. and that page will be used as a teaching page.

not as actual Scripture equivalent, because it had a variant in it.

So they would recopy that page, and once it was done perfectly, they would match the numbers, because each letter is a number, they'd match the numbers, they'd do all this stuff, and they'd get okay, it's verify, okay.

So what do you do with this other page where the guy skipped a line and wrote a word where he wasn't supposed to? And you can't erase it. They technically could, they're called polymp sets when they would do this kind of thing and erase stuff. But it was very expensive to produce parchment or vellum. and writing it was very time consuming.

So, they would take these manuscripts and they would use them, like I said, in teaching things.

Well, they put these notes in the column.

Well, what happens? They would, you know, maybe the monastery would be under attack and they'd put these things away-sacred documents, even the copies of the sacred documents. They put them away and they'd be forgotten, or the people would be exiled, or whatever. And then, a thousand years or two hundred years later, whatever, someone might find this manuscript and then they say that marginal note, why is it there? And they might add it into the text.

Sometimes, this kind of a thing would occur. I suspect as something like this occurred here. that somebody was blowing it.

someplace pretty heavily. And uh Now What I'm looking at In Revelation seven fourteen It says um These are the ones who have made out of the Great Tribulation they've washed their robes, the ones who came out of they've washed their ropes. No, that's something else. Trying to see if the phrase occurs any place else in Greek nearby or whatever, so that we could uh identify how such a gravis a grievous addition could be Uh accomplished. But that's all I know.

Anyway, there you go. That that's what I can figure out.

Okay. Well yeah, that's uh yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

All right. Do we have time for one more question or sure? We only have one open working line, so you're it right now. When you're gone, we'll hope somebody else fills in. the one line that's working.

Go ahead.

Okay, um I guess the last thing I'll bring up is this. Luke 10, 16. Um I I think this is a good Look 1060. Yes, I think this is a a good argument against Muslims. Because this is Jesus speaking, and he says, Whoever listens to you listens to me.

Whoever rejects you rejects me, but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me. And uh this is exactly what Muslims do. They uh they uh reject what the apostles said. Which is rejecting what Jesus said, which is rejecting the Father.

So they're rejecting, you know, all these people. Right. But, you know, you know, you know, rejecting the apostasi and I find it interesting.

Well, they uh Even though the Quran, Surah 1094, says the Bible basically is not trusted, not corrupted. called Islamic Dilemma. We'll get into that some other time. There are verses that they use to say that the Koran has been corrupted. And so they, I mean, with the sorry, that the Bible has been corrupted.

So they might say, well, that might be a corrupted verse. That's one of the things they can come out and say. But they might also say, well, yeah, we do believe what Jesus, because in Surah 351, Allah is my Lord and your Lord. That's what Jesus says.

So Jesus directs worship to Allah.

So they say we are listening to Jesus. And he says, don't pray to him. Because they come back with, where does he say, worship me, I am God? He doesn't say that. That's how Muslims ask the question.

So they can just turn that around like that and and use that argument, okay? Yeah, and this whole Muslim argument about where does Jesus say, I am God. Um If if you if you know you know, if a Muslim were to ask me where did Jesus say I'm God, I would uh simply say that, well, overall, nowhere in the Bible do we say in those exact words, but Jesus does claim to be God and the the example I would give is in uh I Isaiah, where I think it's in Isaiah 46 and 48, where Yahweh is speaking and he says, The first and the last, and in Revelation chapter one, and also in 22, Jesus applies that title to himself. It says that he is the first and the last, so he's claiming to be God. And has any Muslim ever tried to get around that?

Yeah, they just generally say the Bible Bible's been corrupted. What it generally comes down to is where the Bible agrees with them, then it's trustworthy. Where it doesn't agree with them, it's been corrupted. And I'll ask them, where's your evidence of such a a corruption here? And they don't have it.

But this is the kind of a thing they'll do.

Now, if they're. If they're astute, some of them might say, Well, you have textual variants, don't you? Yes, yes, we do. That's corruption. Then I have to go into Uthman, who took all the manuscripts and there was corruption and things like this, and then the satanic verses and various things about the Quran.

There's ways to come back. But Let me just tell you, experience has taught me that Muslims have Answers for most everything. Not good answers, but they have these comebacks for everything. And you have to be well trained. to answer them in a lot of different levels, in a lot of different areas, because I don't know where they get information.

Maybe there's an anti-Christian website out there and they all just build on it. I don't know. I'd love to know if that was the case. But they seem to have the same arguments. that have been answered repeatedly.

and they still use them. It's pretty bad. Anyway, okay? Yeah.

All right, man. It was nice talking to you. I want to get off in case somebody else is trying to get through.

Okay, buddy, there's a break. Perfect timing. God bless, Elijah. God bless.

Alright. Oops. Hey folks, we have one open line. We only have one line working, so if you want to call, now's the time: 8772-07-2276. We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Thanks for listening. We've got Caleb waiting, but before we get to him, at the last segment of the hour, I just want to let you know that we stay on the air by your support.

Please consider supporting us. We. I'll just say we really do need it. And we are, it happens every now and then. We just get low in our funds, and that's now.

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All right, let's get to Caleb from Kentucky. Caleb, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, Matt, thank you so much. Your ministry has been such a blessing to me in my walk with the Lord.

So, thank you so much. Hey, praise God, man. Praise God. Amen.

So, my question was: so, I'm also a Reformed Christian. And in respect to the doctrine of justification by faith alone, some opposers to the gospel of grace will say that when Paul says, We're justified by faith and not by works. Think for example like Romans 3.28. They'll try to skirt around that and say these works only pertain to the ceremonial aspect of the law.

So, do you know how I could potentially respond to claims such as that? Yes. You go to verse. Mm-hmm. Because by the works of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight, for through the law comes a knowledge of sin.

If that's just ceremonial stuff, that's not the answer. Ceremonial law doesn't reveal our sin, it's the moral law that does.

So the context there in verse of Romans 3:20.

Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much, Matt. God bless you. Quick and slick.

But just so you know, what they're also going to do, what they're also going to do is say the law, when you get them there with Romans 3:20, they're going to. Hymn and haw about it. They're so self-righteous. Yeah, I can earn my salvation with God by my faith in God's work and my work. Just incredible.

And so what I'll do to them is I'll ask them a question. and it's a setup question. And I'll I'll ask him what justification is. And they routinely can't define what justification is. I go through Romans 4:1 through 5.

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh, is found? For if Abraham was justified by works? He's something to boast about, but not before God. I say, Now the word justification here. He says, by works, nope, not before God.

Verse 3. And this is what I'll do with him. What does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, it was credited to him as righteousness. I ask him, what does the scripture say was credited to him as righteousness?

Now, I don't know if you've ever done this, but this is what I'll do with them. I'll say, what does it say? And then they'll say, it's faith that works through love. They go to Galatians 5:6. And I say, no, what does it say here?

What does it say right here? And finally, they'll say, well, it was faith that was credited as righteousness. Verse 4: To the one who works his wage is not credited as favor, but what is due? Verse 5. To the one who does not work but believes, and him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

And I say, Is justification the crediting of righteousness? Look what it says right there. They're stuck.

Now I don't know if you've done this, but I'll do this with them. And then I ask a question: I say: when it says to the one who does not work but believes, is Paul negating works regarding justification? That question Just causes them conniption fits. And they'll say, no, he's not negating works. And I'll say, so when it says one who does not work but believes, We're talking about justification.

That means he's including works when he says those who do not work. Is that what you're saying? And I do this with them, and they just look bad. Because they're, you know, they're s and they're they have the cult in mind, they're just submitting to the Catholic Church and stuff like that. And then what they'll do is they'll say, well, these are works of the law.

Various things. Oh, they're not the laws of the New Testament. And I'll ask him, let me take a tangent: what's the laws of the New Testament? And there's over 60. I have an article, what did Jesus command to do?

There's over 60 things.

So I ask him, are you doing them? Oh, well, I'm trying, so you're not doing them. And then we get into that.

So I'll say, if you notice, In Romans 4.3, Abraham believed God was credited past tense before the law. And verse 5 is after the law. because it's present tense, those who believe And I say both. are received by faith. And ask him, Do you agree?

And it really Stumbles them. Then they go to James 2, you know, 21, 22, 34, and I'll say, oh, you. You're quoting now you're trying to set scripture against scripture. Scripture doesn't contradict itself, so you've got to be careful. And so, anyway, I don't know how much you've done this.

I've had thousands of conversations like this with the cult-minded Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics regarding this stuff.

So, anyway. Yeah, yeah, I've listened to a lot of your work and stuff, too, and it's really blessed me. And uh I do see how, you know, there's a seems to be a fundamental denial of the uh the legal aspects Of the atonement imputation, you know, and I guess that's also what ties into that denial of penal substitutionary atonement, which is the heartbeat of the gospel. And so the denial that justification is a legal declaration of the righteousness of the person from the Lord, Father. It just seems to be that huge conflation that may seem to be.

Sawing off their own branch that they sit on with a lot of stuff. Absolutely. And you're right. PSA, penal substitutionary atonement, is correct, is biblical. And they mock it, condemn it, and they'll often go to what's called recapitulation theory, at least these Orthodox do.

Some say Christus Victor. And all of these are denial of the absolute work of Christ so that they can contribute to their own salvation. Yeah.

Well Good observation. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, like what's amazing, Matt, is like theologically speaking. I know I was listening to a, you did this years ago.

It was a good to sit-down discussion with Dan Chapa over limited atonement. And you were saying, you know, how about your theological convictions, reform theology, but also, you know, continuationism and whatnot. And too, and it's like, I line that with you. I'm really, I share a lot of common theological convictions with you, which I guess, you know, you don't see a whole lot of that nowadays as far as like, you know, Reform theology, but also various other things, too. And it's like, for example, like, I'll pick up.

I watch a lot of your stuff, and I ask the Lord to really help me to remember this, to glorify Him, and to be a strong witness for Him. And it's like, man, like, I'll watch some of your stuff, and the Holy Spirit will just almost. Like, just, I'll just immediately remember what you say. Like, I can watch one of your videos. Like, you know, he bore our sins in his body on the cross, 1 Peter 2, 24.

I still remember the good argument where Matthew 6, 12, where Jesus, or Luke 11, 4, where Jesus says, forgive us our sins. But then Matthew 6, 12, he equates sin with legal debt. And then, you know, 2 Corinthians 5, 21. And yeah, it's just really awesome. And a lot of your stuff with the Trinity, too.

Like, for a while there, I was. Really trying to memorize a lot of the Trinity table that you have made because I love learning about the Trinity and defending the Trinity too, you know. And so, yeah, like I was watching, I watched one of your old bit debates from a few years ago recently with a modalist, and you know, you asked them to define personhood, and it just seems like it was just their brain shut down because it all hinges upon personhood, you know, the weight of being with God that's the three persons, you know.

So, uh, like, yeah, it's like, seriously, it's like, you know, like, I'll watch your stuff, listen to your bills, and the Holy Spirit will just start remember just like I'll just the scripture just start coming to me and stuff from your from your videos and from your Bible studies, and it's truly a blessing.

So, you bless me in your ministry, and uh, I love defending the gospel of grace, and you're definitely a Like a good role model figure to me in the face, who I look up to a lot.

Well, maybe because I'm taller than you, that might be why you'd look up, but that's about it. Yeah, yeah, I think you are taller than me. I remember one of your videos, I think you said you're pretty tall, huh? No, I'm only six feet, but uh. on this short one in my family actually.

But I was going to say on carm.org forward slash outlines. Go check stuff out there. I've started putting my outlines up and one of them is on Reform Theology and sold for 100 pages of material. It's just right there for you. Notes that I put together over many years.

Of online work with my outline open, people asking me questions, I'm typing them in, and then going back and filling in the blanks and researching notes. That's my notes. And there's more I can put in there in each category. I just haven't gone through everything yet. You can check it out, okay?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

Well, I checked out one of you. I'm not sure if you're active on there anymore, the Calvinist Corner. I was checking out some of your resources, stuff you had on there, and it was really great stuff. I really enjoyed that. Yeah, it's just another website where I put my reform theology there, but I've got other websites too.

But Carm, of course, is the big one. And I'm online. Oh, I got another call. Hey, look, another line's working. And uh So, I but I do a lot of online impromptu discussions on the virtual world in big uh big screen.

I'll go in there. I also do it in uh VR chat in on the VR world. And I also go on Discord and I go into um Cloudhouse. And I will have these discussions. I used to go to Pal Talk a lot.

And he's keep me sharp because you need to do a lot of practice. And um Okay. And there's ways to practice. Just keep outlines, keep doing it. And I'll be 70 pretty soon.

And I'm still I think I'm doing okay for 70. I still my brain's not as good as it used to be. But you know, You can just keep plugging. Just keep trying by God's grace. That's all you can do.

Yeah, by God's grace, amen. I'll let you go. I was actually listening, but before I go, I think this was funny. I was watching a good video from Eli Yala discussing Eastern Orthodoxy. The video is a little bit old.

He said that you said a quote one time that was pretty funny: that there's so much heresy in so little time. I thought that was hilarious. Yeah, that's right. And I have a t-shirt. I need to get that.

Someone said it to me. It was too small a shirt. I'm an extra 2x large, so it was people just underestimate. Anyway, so yeah, I need to get that going.

So much heresy, so little time. In fact, he and I just did a little gig together on Saturday where he interviewed me, kind of a bio thing. He wanted to do that for a video reason, so we did that. Talking about the history and okay, I'll definitely check that out. And again, thank you so much, Matt, and God bless you.

All right, man, you too. God bless, brother. God bless.

Bye. All right. Hey, folks, want to just remind you that we stay on the air by your support. We definitely do need it. Please consider supporting us.

All you got to do is go to carm.org, and at the top of the page, you can see the word donate. We just need. You know what, $10 a month. If you could do $10 a month, that would be great. We're trying to raise the funds to pay the missionaries, which I'm going to do in a couple of days.

And that usually just wipes us out. But at any rate, hey, I'm just letting you. All right, carm.org. And top of the page is the word donate gil. From New York.

Hey, with skill. Hey, Steve Gregg would love to do a debate with you, even though he's done it before. I talked to him an hour ago, so I hope you guys will do it. I'll be so happy of having you guys together again. Yeah, he has a website called NarrowPaths.com.

Just have to email me and. I'll tell them to email you. Yeah, just email me at info at carm.org and we can set up a debate. Maybe we do an in-person debate, too. It'll be fun.

That's great. By the way, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is Hebrews 10:25. It says, Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another. And all the more as you see the day approaching. And uh I think it's so important to be in church 'cause I have a lot of people that love me and stuff.

But just explain if you have a few minutes why it's important to attend church.

Some people say I can do it in my house and all this nonsense, you know.

Well, it depends. You see, like, for example, my wife, before she passed away last year, she really couldn't go to church. And so she would listen to stuff online. And sometimes we would go downstairs and we would just have a little service to ourselves. We just read the word and we talk about it.

Very, very casual. And then we'd have communion. And I would give communion sometimes.

So I certainly get that. And some people are just homebound, and that's just the way it is, and thank the Lord for that in the next. But normally, if you can get there, you should go. You should go.

Now, the Bible doesn't say you have to go. I get picked up. Yeah.

It doesn't say you have to go, but you should go and find people to have fellowship with because it's great to fellowship with believers. And you should do that because people need that correction, that teaching, admonition that comes from the pulpit. Yeah.

So good stuff. Yeah.

I live in a nursing home and they picked me up from another church in Long Island here in New York.

So I'm going and I got a lot going on for me. I wish I had time to tell you all the. Good stuff that's going on, but we'll have time. I'll call him tomorrow, I promise. I just spoke to him today.

All right, sounds good. God bless, brother. God bless.

God bless you, brother. Love you. Bye. Hey, folks, we'll be back on the air Lord tomorrow. Looks like maybe the phones are fixed.

I don't know. But, hey, I hope you have a great evening. Remember to support us if we do need that, please. And by his grace, we'll be back on the air tomorrow. May the Lord bless you greatly.

God bless.

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