Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers, taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, you can. It's easy on this lovely day, which is, let's see, August 20th, 2026, for the listeners.

Alright, uh match look live. But how long have I been doing radio? Man, I've been doing radio for. I think 22 or 23 years. It depends because I did two years one day a week, and then I've been doing on the five-day a week regime for.

I think since 2005.

So 21 years of five days a week and two years of single week. Anyway, a lot of talk, a lot of QA, a lot of time. And so I guess you could say technically my 23rd year, 23 years. Anyway, no big deal. Just thinking out loud.

If you want to give me a call, as usual, all you got to do is dial 877-2072276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. We had a caller coming in, but then dropped out. Just to let you know, I will be in a debate tonight.

And um I'm going to put the information up on, let's see, the calendar, karm.org forward slash calendar. I don't have all the stuff yet, but I'll be putting that in there. Also, for what it's worth, I just got asked to fly down to Southern California September 11th, 12th, 13th range. and be there for two or three days. at a conference on um on Islam and I was just talking to the facilitator who and he wants me to speak On uh Why the Trinity?

Something on the on the Trinity, why the Trinity is necessary. Uh and Islam fails, this kind of a thing. I'm going to work up a topic.

So I'll be spi I'll do a two things, uh uh a s a topic sp well speak for thirty minutes and then do a workshop for like fifty minutes. And I'll be doing that at Chino Hills. Calvert Chapel. And uh So that's what's going on out there back in Southern California. Whew.

And then... Then I've got to at the end of October got to be out in Michigan, I think it is. I gotta speak at a conference out there. And I'll be focusing on a lot of stuff on Eastern Orthodoxy and the rise of that uh false religion. And yes, it's a false religion, just like Roman Catholicism, other false, not true Christian religions, because.

They both violate essential doctrines of the Christian faith in that they teach a false gospel, they add works to salvation. And they also promote idolatry and the worship, adoration of the saints. Oh, they're going to say, no, we just venerate. They just use the word venerate when they do the same thing to what worship is. I did an article on this showing the the acts of of idolatry in the Old Testament.

which is considered idolatry and of false gods, like kissing Items which they do, bowing before the statues of those gods, which is what they do, praying to those gods, which is what they do. And then they say, Well, it's just veneration.

So, in other words, they It's like a guy on a tennis court playing tennis. It's forty love. And uh someone says, Uh, you're playing tennis. Yeah, you're really great. He goes, No, I'm not playing tennis.

Uh I'm only playing um something called uh blueness. And they go, It's that.

Well, that's just what this is, but it was called a different thing.

So, it's not really tennis. It's this kind of illogic that they present. But, at any rate. Uh so I'll be prepping up on the on those things and um I got a lot to do. We had a lot to do, so a lot of stuff.

And I only found out a couple of days ago, found out a couple of days ago that I had to do this debate tonight. I put on my schedule, I forgot.

So I've been prepping for two days, pretty solid. And I've got notes that work in my opening statement for tonight. It's going to be a different one. It's going to be different how I'm going to present this. It'll be interesting.

It'll be a different defense of the doctrine of the Trinity biblically. And then we'll have some good QA. Hopefully, it'll be interesting. Let's get to Jermaine from North Carolina. Jermaine from North Carolina.

Yeah. Jermaine, welcome you on the air.

Okay. Hey, Matt, I um Wanted to ask you about the uh last days and It seems like a lot of folks have different takes on that. Can you explain exactly what the word is speaking of when it says last name because everyone seems to think their generation is the last. And so Depending on what what uh what a view of scripture they have, whether they be dispensationalist or Whatnot, it just seems like they're convinced. I have no people who are convinced without a doubt that they're going to see the rapture and then some people have actually died.

You know, they passed on and it didn't happen, so it's clearly their interpretation that's wrong. I don't believe the word is wrong. Can you break down what the last days is actually all about? Yeah, the the last days.

Okay, next. That was easy. Um by the way. The phrase occurs 11 times in the Bible. I just did a check.

And. The first occurrence is in Isaiah 2, verse 2.

Now it will come about in the last days, the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established, the chief of the mountains. In Jeremiah 23, 20, In the last days you will clearly understand. Jeremiah 49 says, But it will come about in the last days that I will restore the fortunes of Elam. In Ezekiel 38, Now we're getting a little bit more interesting stuff here. It says, It shall come about in the last days that I'll bring you against my land, so that the regions may know when I am sanctified through your eyes.

Hosea speaks about it, the goodness in the last days. And uh Uh So does Micah. But what is interesting in the New Testament economy is in Acts 2:17, it shall be in the last days, God says.

Now, he's quoting Joel. That I will pour forth my spirit upon all mankind.

So it's not just the Jews where the Spirit of God will be poured upon, but of all people groups.

So we have Christians everywhere. In 2 Timothy 3:1, but realize this in the last days, difficult times will come. And this is when it's speaking about the issues of apostasy. In Hebrews 1:2, it says, In these last days he's spoken to us in his Son.

So the phrase last days now is taking a characteristic which we wouldn't really think of. it is in reference to the arrival of Christ. to the consummation of the ages. That's Hebrews 1, 2. In these last days he spoke at us.

to us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things. And then it says in James 5:3, your gold and silver has rusted, and their rust will be witness against you, and you will. and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure. And then 2 Peter 3.3, know this.

First of all, in the last days mockers will come with their mocking. Following their own lusts.

Okay, so the last days biblically has several meanings. But what we're talking about here in the context of eschatology is the last days began with the arrival of Jesus.

Now that blows a lot of people away, but it's what Hebrews 1:2 says.

Furthermore, It's when the presence of the Holy Spirit is here.

So the last days. Are the days that God has ordained that begin with Christ with the presence of the Holy Spirit upon all the nations? That's what the last day says. One of the characteristics of the last days is that there'll be mockers. people will turn against God.

They will not trust in God. Um And it says, knowing this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep and continues just as it was from the beginning of the creation.

So that's what the biblical understanding of last days is. It's varied in the Old Testament. And it speaks about some issues with Israel, restoration of Israel, and some immediate judgments and fulfillments at that time. But eschatologically, it deals with the time period beginning with Jesus being here with the presence of the Holy Spirit and that. Um We have mockers and false doctrines and things like that to the last days.

or a long time, okay? Yeah, yeah, that's actually what I. I mean, you explained it so much more eloquently than I probably would have, but for me. The last days is not Right now, it's like the last days have already started and still going.

So. Yeah, I mean it To me, that's pretty clear, but it just seems like my uh Family, God bless them. That they really some of them are very dispensationalist and they see the last days as As you know, in our generation, we will probably see the return of price. Like, hey, you don't you can't put a timetable on that. You don't know.

That's all I'm saying.

Well, I have an idea for you. What you could do is. Go to uh Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Luke 17, 36, Matthew 27, or Luke 24, 37. thirty seven, I believe it is. As it was in the days of Noah, so should be the days of coming Son of Man.

And you go parallel those in Matthew 17 excuse me, Luke seventeen, Matthew twenty-four. You parallel those and you ask who are the ones taken, and they have to admit it's the wicked who are taken. You can see their eyebrows shot shot. or shoot up into the air at that point.

So that's one of the things I would do with them, to make sure they see that and read the whole context of Luke 17, where it says at the end, they ask Jesus, where are they taken? The ones who are, you know, two men that feel one is taken, one is left. The ones who are taken are the wicked. And then go to the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. and go to verse thirty where it says the wicked are the ones taken first.

See what they do with all that. Just watch them. Just Wrestle with it. It's a lot of fun. Just get some popcorn.

and a soda in a recliner and just watch 'em.

Okay, up at that point.

Alright. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'll take you up on that one. I'm looking forward to seeing the reaction of uh A few folks. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do that.

Yeah, I've done it many times with people in a loving way. And the pre-trib premillennial pre-tribbers and all this kind of stuff, any day now. And I show them this stuff, and they're like, oh, no, the ones taken, it's the rapture. But who's it says taken here? And then finally, it takes 10 minutes sometimes, and they go, okay, it's the wicked who are taken.

I said, good, where do they take him? to a place of death. Is that the rapture? And they don't want to admit it's not because they've been taught their whole life it's the rapture when it's not. And then taking to Matthew 13, the first one's taken of the wicked.

What are you going to do with that? And uh listen for the crickets and just eat popcorn and watch.

Okay? Yeah, and not coming from a place of pride, thankfully, I have family where we can. have these tense discussions, it doesn't turn into an argument or a fight.

So Yeah, I'll lovingly look forward to some twisting and turning, and we'll laugh about it and hopefully learn something.

So, yeah, thank you, Matt. It'd be interesting. Yeah, tell me what happens. It'd be interesting. Alright, brother.

Oh, I sure will. Yeah, God bless you now.

Okay, God bless. All right, now, next longest waiting is Jim from North Carolina. Jim, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you, Matt.

I was listening to you last week when you had a session on suicide. And I had a question, but time ran out, and so I'm calling back. You asked me to call back later, so it was a few days ago about the suicide. And let me give you just two statements that explain my question. My grandfather, he committed suicide by shooting himself with a shotgun.

And then my father, he was an oldest son too. And my father, who was an oldest son, he committed suicide by hanging. And now I'm the oldest son. I ain't planning on doing that. But Uh my question is that I believe my grandfather was a Christian.

I also believe my daddy was a Christian. And do you believe it's uh possible to commit suicide and go to heaven? Yes. Absolutely. There's different levels of suicide too.

You can do suicide by saving your saving someone else at the risk of your own life. It's not considered suicide, but it functionally is. You can do that by protecting others, things like that. That's one.

Sometimes people they get mental uh mental difficulties. They won't take the meds and they uh might get depressed and take too many, risking something and and then you know, suicide. in that sense.

So there's different ways.

Okay, but A lot of people think you have to be able to repent of a sin in order to be forgiven. And we got a break coming up. I'll deal with this issue when we get back to the break because there's logistical issues with it, and we'll address it when we get right back. Please, folks. Please stay tuned.

We're right back with Jim from North Carolina. Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking a call at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, and welcome back to the show.

Let's get back on with Jim. Jim, are you still there? Yeah. All right, so Generally speaking, When someone Takes her own life in this kind of situation. Depression.

Pressure Sometimes they they uh this gets so depressed Other times they see medical issues And pressures and they can't they can't cope with them and they they take their own lives.

So this means they're not saved. No.

Now, as I was saying before the break, some people say you have to repent of a sin in order to be forgiven and go to heaven. That is not true. You are supposed to repent, you should repent of your sins, and repentance is part of salvation. But if it was required, Strictly to be the truth, that we have to repent of any sin in order to be forgiven, then we're all in trouble because there are sins we don't even know about, we don't even repent of. Then someone might say, Well, if you know about the sin, it's a sin, then you're responsible.

Okay. And uh there's a verse, uh I think it's uh first Corinthians four, four. I am conscious of nothing against myself, okay? Yet I am not by this acquitted.

So even if you're not sure you're doing something wrong. you're still not clean.

So, the idea of having to repent in order to be forgiven is problematic. In this context, in this way, because they don't have the ability to repent of it after the act is done. It does not mean that you lose your salvation. But uh It means they'll probably have loss of reward in heaven, probably. They've done something they probably should not have done.

and it was a self-centered thing and not uh to save others. uh then I would say there would be consequence to that and a violation of that.

So I would say, no, they're saved. If they truly are saved, then they can't lose their salvation by what Jesus says.

So that's what I would say, okay? Thank you very much, Matt. I really appreciate that.

Okay. Hope that helps.

Okay. Okay, thank you.

Alright, brother. God bless.

Okay. All right, now here's a thought. What do you do about someone who's in a hospital? And they're elderly or sick or whatever it is, and they're tired of medication, they're tired of the treatments, and they say, just let me go. That is, in other words, they're denying to themselves.

that which would continue their life. and are opting to not Uh to not do that.

Okay? So uh That would be a problem, okay? Uh I hold on a second.

Okay, there we go.

So, um anyway, I'm sorry, I got distracted by a phone call and I did Oh, I'm doing okay. Hanging in there, man. Hanging in there. What do you got, buddy?

So I would like to, first of all, extend my condolences about your wife. Oh boobs. And I also um Shortly thereafter, lost my wife. Ahi yahi yahi Um So, uh, yeah, it's it's been rough, but um I just had a quick question about that for a second. Hold on.

Okay. I don't know. My wife was after a long illness, so this is not the right way to say it. I was a little bit more prepared. if you know what I mean.

But um W was that something with your wife and And how are you doing? and stuff like, you know, I'm just curious. Um Yeah, it was definitely unexpected. She actually. died of a drug overdose and um So, yeah, it's uh It's Been hard, uh You know, something that She dealt with, and I've dealt with myself for many years, but By the grace of God, I've been freed from that, and so.

Anyhow, yeah, things were going well and then we got uh Yeah, things were getting back on track and uh the Lord was was restoring our family and everything and then uh and then that happened.

So it was out of left field and uh So yeah, it's been been rough, but my church is great and um wonderful people and Um they They have been a great help. as have uh a lot of my my dear friends, close friends.

Well I'm sorry to hear it, and I'm glad that you're getting support and And all I can say is uh death is a rude visitor. It makes a huge mess. and leaves you to pick up. Yeah. The door of you.

Definitely.

Alright man. Um So my my question would be So uh if I am I I know, you know, obviously We're not supposed to try and commune with the dead the seances and all this and that and what. what not. I know I know all of that, but I was wondering if in a situation where Um so we had her cremated and so if I were to Go and sit on the bench down by the columbarium and just have a conversation with her. Is that something I mean would that be Unbiblical, is that wrong to do that?

Okay. The Bible doesn't address that specifically. What it does say is that you're not to call up the dead, and that's in spiritistic kind of things. If the intention you're there, you're just You're not praying to her, you're not really talking, you're just talking out loud to her, where the intention is not. that she can actually hear you, you're just voicing through things.

I I don't have a problem with that. Because grief is a weird thing. And uh You know, you walk around the house, and the thing she'd always did is empty, or the place she always was is empty. And sometimes you just want to express it. And so going to that place and just talking To her, as long as it's gonna be careful here, because people could take what I'm saying out of context.

As the Catholics and Orthodox like to do, and say, see, he said it's okay to pray to someone, and not what I'm saying. If you actually think she's hearing you and you're addressing her, don't do that. If it's a therapy session, you're just talking to her and you know she's we you can't say we know she's not hearing, we can't say we know she is hearing, the Bible doesn't tell us. But you're not addressing and seeking her and expecting her to hear and answer.

So what I do What I've been doing is talking to the Lord about my wife because next week it'll be nine months. And so, what I'll do is, I say, Lord, I don't know how it works. could you tell her I said hi and I miss her. And then sometimes it'll do is walk around the house and just stop where I'm at, and I just talk out loud, not to her. But about the situation and about this.

I just make statements. You know, I miss my wife and wish she were here, but without the pain and suffering. And, you know, just these statements, because we have to process things, and there's nothing wrong with that.

So, in the sense of processing it by talking to her as if she's there, but you know she's not. Then you're not doing the same thing as calling at the dead, you're not praying to the dead.

So Yes, sir. Grant does. That uh that helps a lot. I think the safe thing to do is just talk to Jesus about it, you know, if you can, if it feels that help. Let's see.

Yeah, that's still good. Oh, hold on. We got a break. Hold on.

Hold on.

I got a break. I want to hear you. I want to hear after the break. Hey, folks, we'll be right back with Matt from South Carolina and uh I'll be right back. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Hello everybody and welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Matt from South Carolina.

Alright, buddy, you still there? Yes, sir.

Alright man. Okay. Yeah, I just didn't want to uh just leave you abruptly there at the the issue of the of the break, but Well Anything last that you want to add or Can I get two? Um No, I think that pretty pretty well covers it. Yeah, I really appreciate it.

I just uh I also I just want to let you know that I've been listening to your show now for Um After a while And it's been extremely helpful and edifying and I I love digging into Theology and you know, biblical theology, correct theology.

So Um, I really appreciate your show and um and thank you for taking my call. Hey, brother. God bless.

I think you'll believe me when I say you have my sympathy about the loss of your wife. Yeah. Yeah. All right, man.

Well, God bless, man. God bless.

That best budget, have a good one. You too. You know, a lot of people don't have the ability to call in or the fortitude to, or the opportunity. and and talk about a a a spouse who's passed. And um For those of you out there who've recently lost a spouse, Uh All I can say is turn to Jesus.

and ask him to be your comforter. And uh if you're loved who whom you've lost. was a Christian, and then if you're a Christian too, you'll sp be with them again. It's not a great consolation because it hurts in the meantime, but it is true non nonetheless. Let's get to Alex from Florida.

Alex, welcome. You're on the air. What's going on, my friend? Hey, buddy, just doing radio and uh stuff like that. What's up, man?

What do you got? Yeah, you've been giving some good. I went back crazy lady the other day who calls in and says Islam is a good religion. How crazy is that? Yeah, it's it r Islam is a a religion of violence.

And intolerance and sharia and all kinds of bad stuff. Yeah, it's bad news. Yeah, violence and falsehoods. Um Yeah, so My question is, so this is I've been seeing something online allegedly There is a pastor in Texas whose staff is required to tithe to their church. 10% after they get their paycheck.

What j is that biblical? No.

The 10% tithe is something under the Old Testament law, which we are not under anymore.

So, to make a requirement of that, I guess a church could do that as a necessary requirement for their staff. As far as biblical warrant for it, I don't see anything like that. We are free.

So yeah, we don't want to yeah.

Okay. Yes, so yes, there's this is going around. I mean, I haven't seen any internal documents, but they're saying that if you don't give ten percent out of your paycheck, you're fired. I'd say See ya. Yep.

It's like you just see. I don't know. Where is all this coming from? It's like one goofy thing after another. And this guy's supposed to be solid and he's good.

And then this comes out. It's like. How can you be the leader of a church? and enforcing this. This is just You're binding people, you know?

Yeah, it is. It's putting them back under a legal requirement. And there's problems there. You might have someone who. Who, let's just say uh doesn't have much money, is working there, not get paid a lot.

And is is barely making it by, barely making it, and you have to pay 10%. That's a problem. But see, tithing is a Mosaic law requirement, not a New Testament requirement.

Okay. So, um Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. One more other thing along these lines. Another This is a while back, a a friend of mine I hadn't seen him in years and I met with him for lunch.

And he had become a Christian and he was going to this church. And he said, Yeah, you can only be on You can only be involved in ministry with the church. Like, not, I'm not talking about paid staff here or anything like this, but. involved in some sort of church ministry if you had no credit card debt. Um What about mortgage debt?

I would ask. And what about they said that was okay, but just specifically no credit card debt.

Okay. So in other words, they went to the book of stupidectomy and they extracted a requirement That this debt's okay, but that debt's not okay.

So you can do this, but not that. And if I were to say to them, Can you show me that scripturally? They'd say, Yeah, the book of stupidification.

So that's all I could tell you is that it's ridiculous because. Yeah, someone said that to me and say, hey, what's that behind you? When I turn around, I'm leaving. Yeah I know I was like I was dumbfounded when I heard this. I mean I You know, the longer you've been in ministry, the longer you're in churches and fellowshipping with other believers, do you just hear about these wild requirements?

And I'm like, where? How are you not like the Pharisees with these things? I know. And the idea of requiring a tithe It means surveillance of the finances of your employees. It's none of their business.

If I were a pastor of a church, I would tell people, I got to talk about tithing occasionally, it's biblical. I'd say, you're obligated to do what you're obligated to do before God. You and God figure that out. And it said, you're not under any obligation to tithe here. But we do stick, you know, we survive by your support.

It's how it works. But if you can't afford it, don't do it. And then I could do the issue of trust and things like that. But I wouldn't say anything like, oh, and by the way, if you want to help out at the church, we have to have your financial records all about your credit card debt, your mortgage debt, car payments, and whether you're tithing to us, so that you can work with us. Mm-hmm.

And I'd hear this sound like this, you know. Just the sound of of feet pitter pattering out the doors. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I've heard of.

you know, I had the I remember talking to a Catholic guy once and he was telling me that the their church required them to show their W two or their ten forty's. in order to join the church. And I'm like, where is that? the Bible.

So so let's get this straight.

So it's salvation by cash. I mean, what is it in Mormonism? They don't report a good. In order to go to the temple, you have to have a temple recommended, which means for at least a year you have to be paying 10% of your income to the church. They've got to check upon you.

And I call that salvation by cash. Because you have to go to the temple or exaltation, and get exaltation, get this, get sealed, all this stuff. You've got to do this. And so one of the ways I've said it. When I've been out in front of Mormon temples when they're opening and I know Mormons are going in, I'll say, you had to pay a 10% tithe to get in there.

Yeah, so you know, when when it's you know, when it's open. I mean, to the only of the Mormons. And they'll say yes. And say so you have to pay money to go into the presence of God? Then their their heads turn away because they don't like my question.

So, yeah. Yeah, and you know this: if you actually get saved and you want to leave the Mormon church, well, you better have a lawyer to get off the rolls. Yes, there's actually a form and some legality issues that have been. raised in the past. Yes.

And uh I I've talked to people who've had to threaten a lawsuit, in order to say, Get me off the rolls. Yep. Yeah. wild man wild stuff but Well anyways, yeah, those were my thoughts. I've been wanting to ask you that question for a few weeks, so.

Well good. Good, good, good, brother. Appreciate it, man.

Alright, I want you to get to other callers. God bless, brother. God bless.

God bless.

All right, that's Alex. He's been in my house, and he's a good guy. Loves the Lord, good guy. Let's get to Isaac from North Carolina. Isaac, welcome, you're on the air.

Well, how's it going? It's going. What's going on man? What do you got, buddy?

I called yesterday, I don't know if you remember, uh about the girl that works with me that wants me to call her a man. Oh yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't do it. Personally, I wouldn't do that. Yeah, I'm not going to.

I'm just going to call her by her name, and if she doesn't accept that, then oh well. But she also brought up that she's a Christian and then the Bible doesn't say anything against that.

So I just kinda let it go because obviously I haven't read the whole Bible. Like she says that the Bible supports The trans thing? Live The Bible doesn't say that you can't be transgender or like being gay, anything like that. It's not going to allow you to go into heaven. Yes, it does talk, it condemns homosexuality very clearly in Romans 1:18 through 32.

You can read the whole section. Starting at Romans 1:18, to start reading, you'll see about verse 24 to 28. You'll see a lot of explicit stuff. Also, in 1 Corinthians 6:9, the Greek word arsenikoitas, which is man better, is translated into the English homosexual. And so, yeah, it's condemned in scripture.

Absolutely, it is. In the Old Testament as well, and I forgot the references. But the Bible says, don't exceed what's written in 1 Corinthians 4:6. And the Bible says that God made it us man and woman.

So male and female, he's the one who designed that, and so to go against that is to sin against God by saying, no, God made a mistake when he put me in this body this way. And that would be a sin. Hey, we'll be right back, folks. Please stay tuned, okay, Isaac. We'll be right back, folks, after these messages, please.

Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, buddy, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with Isaac from North Carolina.

He's still there, better? Yes, I'm zero here.

Alright now. Stay.

Okay, so uh Okay, look.

So, re-ask your question. I'll make sure we're on the same page, and then we'll continue. All right?

So the My transgender co-worker said the Bible doesn't have anything against her being transgender and serving God. You know, and me not agreeing with her is, you know, a sin or whatever. Right, just say that God created male and female, Adam and Eve. And that the created order is what God has designed, and that to go against that is to go against what God has stated. Never does he Equal.

Does he say that one can become the other. In fact, there's a Bible verse that talks about wearing uh about wearing uh the clothes of a the other gender. And let me see if I can find that of the other gender. A handout. And it prohibits it.

You shall not do the things pertaining to a man pertaining to a woman, a woman pertaining to a man, or something like that. Deuteronomy 22, 5. Um So it says this. A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord.

So that is a good verse as a basis, that you're not to mix genders or the appearance of genders. or swap or do anything like that. That's Deuteronomy 22.5.

Okay. Perfect. I mean, I appreciate the clarification and, you know, you taught me a lot.

Now I know what to say and and obviously I don't agree with them at all. Good. And don't let them force you into Something that would violate your conscience. One of the questions I've done, when I've met people online who say they're trans. And they have uh you know I'll say, well, what uh I'll say what um What I'll do it this way: what gender were you born with?

If they don't want to answer me. Then I said you're transitioning to become a what? And then they'll say to become a lawyer.

Okay, then I'm gonna call you Bob because you won't give me a real name.

Well, that's offensive. No, what's offensive is you requiring how I speak to you. in a in something that would violate my own conscience. That means you're the bigot because you're the one requiring it and saying your standard is the right one, and I have to submit to what you want. I'm not doing that.

So that's that's how I handle them.

Okay. Oh yeah, perfect. I I appreciate it. All right, brother. God bless, man.

Okay. God bless you. Thank you.

Okay. All right, let's get to Scott from Washington. Scott, welcome. You're on the air. Hey, how's it going, man?

Sorry about yesterday. My phone switches out in the after show, so you get a lot of wind in your phone now.

So Okay, how about now? Is that better? Yeah. Okay, that that's better.

Okay, so what y what do you got?

So, um I guess I have a couple, just two, if that's okay. The first one is. Um what exactly is The seven spirits and the seven lamp stands and such. What is that? What is that?

I don't know. Um The seven lamp stands I don't know what those are. It's in Revelation. I've been asked the question before. There's conjecture about what they are, that the lampstand deals with light.

And the issue of the light of truth and the blessing, the proclamation, the empowering that in that church is going to be removed. It doesn't mean the church is no longer existing, but that it seems to be. That the, I don't know, I'm looking for, I'm searching for a word that unction of the blessing presence of God. Uh there. is is going to be be gone.

That's what it seems to be.

Okay. Okay, and then the second question: this is what I was trying to ask earlier or yesterday, but. Um So, you know. As you know, I I've told you this before, I'd I've been studying a bit about demonology and spirits and all that stuff, just to see what it what's all about and what the Bible says about it. And um I've noticed that you know, I've always thought that ghosts and stuff are just demons.

Um Taking the form of people, or sometimes they pretend to be a little kid or whatever, and that's happened. What I was wondering is, is it possible, like basically the inverse of Abraham's bosom, is it possible that those who are hellbound? could be sort of wandering the earth until Judgment Day. No, there's nothing in scripture that says that.

Okay. Okay, I was just trying to account for why do people see so many human they call them human spirits. I don't really believe they are, but they are impossible is what I'm wondering. They're called familiar spirits. And generally what this is, is let's just say it's a demonic manifestation.

Um that they appear as Aunt Martha, Uncle Bob. In order to help deceive people. And we have to be very, very careful about this because it can open up doors into the occult. And this is something that the Catholics and East Orthodox are guilty of. In that they, you know, Uncle Bob or Mary appeared and all these things.

So the Bible is very clear about warning against these kinds of participations, not to do that. At all. And no, they're not wandering, disembodied human spirits walking around.

Okay? Okay, that's what I thought, but just in case I could be wrong and wanted to ask. But okay, good. Gosh, I had another one, but I lost it.

So, no worries. I think that's about it, my friend.

Alright, buddy.

Sounds good, man.

Okay, God bless. Okay, thank you.

Okay. All right, now let's get to Stephen from Missouri. Stephen, welcome. You're on the air. It's going on, Matt.

Radio. That's what's going on. What do you got, man? What's up? Yeah.

So a quick question for you. just want to know your opinion. Um So You know, we believe that Jesus You know, he was resurrected in a physical body, right? And we also call the church his body. Yes.

Are they the one and the same body? Yeah. The physical resurrection of Christ is his physical body that has flesh and bones. That if you were with him, you could have touched him. And so it is what we call an actuality in the physical sense.

The body of Christ. Is an abstraction in that it is comprised of the true believers who are in different places at different times in the world.

Now it's actual in the sense that it's real believers. But it's not the actual physical body of Jesus that's in multiple places. 'Kay.

Okay. So in Ephesians 5:30, it says, For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Yeah, um Ephesians 5 3. What church do you go to? Just curious.

What's that? What church do you go to? I'm just curious. I'm Protestants.

Okay. So in Ephesians 5:30, because we are members of his body, were you reading the King James out of that? Yeah, it's a fine. Yeah, remembered of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Interesting.

So, what I'm going to do is, it looks like a textual variant is there. And uh The NESB It just simply says that the King James says. Flesh and bones. And New King James says it: the RSV does not, nor does the LEB, NIV, CSV. Uh or the ASV.

And the Dewey Rheims does.

So the Dewey Rheims and the King James.

So they are translated out of basically 10th to 12th thirteenth century documents. The older uh Documents are what are used in the NASB, NIV, ES. V and things like that.

So what I mean by this is, I don't know the exact dates, but let's just say that they have biblical manuscripts out of Ephesians that are dated, let's just say, the year 300 to 400. And they don't contain this phrase of flesh and bones. where the latter ver uh Things say a thousand years later in certain manuscripts, it might contain the phrases. Yeah. In other words, the oldest copies of Ephesians don't have it.

Newer copies do. You want to go with the oldest. The King James is done with later ones.

Okay? Well, I'm just.

Okay, so my question is. then what is the church? The church is the called-out ones, ecclesia. From ecleo, ecle, there's eclega, there's eclegomai, and eclectos, which in Greek is the called-out ones, the ones being called.

So in one sense, the charter price, right? nor they're called into salvation. They're the called ones that's the church. the ones who are redeemed and indwelt by God.

So in First Corinthians chapter twelve, It gives us a really You know, Paul gives a really long discourse on the body of Christ and specifically calls it the body of Christ multiple times. In First Corinthians 12. Yeah, it's a metaphor.

So, again, my question is. My question is, is the church the body of Christ? Yes, not a literal physical body with flesh and bones. Even though the Well, okay, so Um in what sense then? In what sense then?

Is the church the body of Christ? Just conceptual?

Okay, you're making a mistake of thinking body must be a physical thing, a physical located thing. No, I'm asking a question. I'm not making a mistake, I'm asking a question. You are making a mistake and you've repeated the mistake, and I'm trying to tell you.

Okay. I would say you've already made a mistake.

Okay, look, look, you've conflated, or it's called equivocation, on the issue of what word the true body means. I think you started off the an Okay, we'll just move along.

So here's the problem here. Look, if I'm laying out the issue, that's exactly the issue, and they just interrupt. I've had this kind of conversation a thousand times. And what happens is it quickly degrades into just interruptions and not listening. And so I'm just not going to do that because we've only got a minute and a half left in the show.

So let me just explain. When the term body of Christ exists in the Bible, it has different contexts, different meanings. And meaning is determined by the context of what it is. When it talks in 1 Corinthians 12 about the body of Christ, it's talking about those members who are of Christ and that they're believers in Jesus. When it talks about the physical body of Christ being nailed on the cross, that's his physical thing and not the same thing.

What is a physical single instantiation? And when an instantiation means a manifestation of a single idea or thing.

So the instantiation of Christ's physical body was only in one place, the manifestation of this one place. But the issue of us being a body is one of the best. Being the body of Christ can be multiple in that. We have multiple persons, multiple people in the body of Christ.

So there's differences of meaning in different contexts and different concepts. I was trying to explain this to the guy because he's making the fallacy of what's called equivocation, which is that the word body, body of Christ, changes meaning in different contexts, but he's not designating what those are. Which is really quickly is why I asked him what church he goes to. He says he's Protestant, but it sounds to me like he might be leaning towards Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism while saying he's a Protestant. And I've had, like I said, lots of conversations like this, and I just want to get into this kind of he said, she said, raising the voices kind of thing on the radio.

And if he wants to call back another time and be respectful, then we can have a good conversation. We can go through it. All right. Hey folks, hope you enjoyed the show today. I got a debate tonight.

If you want to watch. It'll be in one hour from now, 8 p.m. Eastern Time. You can go to carm.org forward slash calendar and towards the top of the hour, and that's when I'll put the information in the links you can watch because I'll get that till shortly before then. May the Lord bless you by His grace.

Back on you tomorrow and We'll talk to you down. Have a good evening. Another program powered by the Truth Network.