Matt Slick Live

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at Carm.org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877-207-2276.

Here's Matt Slick. All right, everyone, welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick, and you're listening to Matt Slick Live. If you want to give me a call on this lovely Let's see, August 12th, 2026 for the podcasters. All you got to do is dial 877-20722.

Seven six. I had a hiccup there right in the middle of that.

Alright, uh let's see Boy, none of you know what's weird? I get hiccups. I get three or four. And then I'm done. How about that?

Isn't that interesting? I know you just now you can go to sleep at night and rest well.

Alright, so. We have nobody waiting right now. I released a couple of articles t today. I was kind of cleaning up stuff and I decided to write on some Church Father stuff. And now I've got that project out of the way.

I can work on some other things. Tomorrow on uh some comments made by ref anti-reform people. One of them is pretty bad. I'll get to that. But um I released a new article, Questions for Church Father, or on the Church Fathers, and another one, Who Were the Church Fathers.

And uh stuff like that.

So also I've written a lot on Church Fathers and the reason I have is because the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, they put a great deal of emphasis on the Church Fathers. And I've always thought that was fascinating. Why would you do that? Because to them, the church fathers and scripture basically are the composite of faith. What the early church fathers said.

Now there's a vast number of church fathers, 30, 40. And uh They say different things and they they don't always agree on stuff.

So, what I find interesting is when I talk to the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, the EO, and the RC, I will ask them: well, how do you know which church father is the right one? How do you know? that they're accurate? Do you have any standard? Do you have any Any criteria used by which you go.

And they usually will say, well, it's the ones that are church. Approves, which I thought was rather revealing because it would mean then that the church approves the ones they like, those are the true ones. Why? Because the church fathers agree with their church, and therefore that's how you know their church is true because the church fathers agree with them. And how do you know?

Well, the church tells you which for church fathers are the right ones. This is the kind of logic that is used, and it's pretty bad. And And you know, I have questions. You know, if you're going to go to the church fathers, which are you know, they were very godly people for the most part, very godly people, and they range from the time of the apostles to roughly to the 700s. And they're divided into three main groups: Apostolic Fathers, anti-Nicene, not anti-NT, which means before.

So before the Council of Nicaea in 325, and then after the Council of Nicaea, post-Nicene.

So when you hear the term anti-Nicene, it doesn't mean they're against Nicaea. That's ANTI is against, ANTE is before. like the word antediluvian. Means before the flood, anti-deluge, before the flood. Anyway.

So uh I wrote an article dividing those and showing which one's basically blonde and which ones. And so I released this information and also modified the menu so that the Church Fathers section is a little bit more complete on that. And then I added a page called the Church Fathers. And it's a collection of where you can find a lot of the Church Father stuff we've written in one nice spot. You see?

quick and slick. You know? You know, I work hard and I make it easy for you. There you go. I make it easy for you.

So all you gotta do is say, hey. Let's go to Carm. Where are the church fathers? And what are the questions? And you type in questions on church fathers.

And what do you know? There's questions on church fathers. Oh, it's so easy. All right, hey, let's get to Dave from North Carolina. Dave, welcome.

You're on the air. Dave? Dave's not here. The depth of knowledge you bring to the table here. You hear God is in control, and I know God spoke the universe into existence, and He's omnipotent.

But things happen, people do things outside of his will all the time.

So when you hear pastors say God is in control, do you think sometimes they're confusing his capacity to control with the fact that he controls everything? What's your thoughts? God works all things after the counsel of His will, Ephesians 1:11. Nothing occurs without His will.

Now let's talk about will. first. That way we can get into answering the question more accurately.

So we have what's called the decretive will of God. It's a theological term, what God decrees. Let there be light.

Okay, let the earth be you know, bringing forth vegetation. He decrees certain things by his direct command and his will. Right. Then we have what's called the prescriptive will of God. He prescribes, like a prescription, medicine.

Take one a day. Prescript the prescriptive will is you shall not lie, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder. The permissive will of God is that He wills to let you break His prescriptive will. prescriptive.

So, the will of God is encompassed by a wide range of actions, permissions, and works of God.

So he He doesn't want me to sin, but he wills to permit it. It's his desire to let me do what I want. as it is with yours.

So when we say God's in control, we say that all things occur and are permitted to occur under the aspects of those three, let's just say, aspects of His will.

Okay, decretive. prescriptive and permissive. And so nothing can occur. Unless it's by the will of God.

Now, when we say the will of God, some people think, oh, He directly causes it. but not necessarily By the will of God, he can permit you to disobey him. That's his will to permit that.

So, when we say all things are under the will of God, the answer in that context, yes, it is. When we say God's in control of everything, nothing occurs unless he's permitted it.

So, therefore, he's controlling everything. He can stop you from wearing that red shirt and make you wear a blue shirt if he wants. He can do whatever he desires among the uh the people. Of earth, okay? A c great great explanation, but isn't what you're explaining capacity to control rather than ab absolutely controlling everything?

No, no, no. Don't don't think of God having a capacity to control He doesn't exercise. It doesn't work like it in Christian theology. He does what he wants. He did uh Um with whomever he wants.

You have to understand that nothing occurs unless God has permitted it, which means He could be watching, so to speak, I've really dumbed this down for us. He could be watching you at a closet deciding what shirt. And he can Put it upon your heart. Wear that this one, not that one. He can do it.

Or he knows that by your free will, let's just say, really simple here, that you're just going to choose a certain shirt. He knows exactly that is. That's what he wants you to do, so he permits you to do it.

So, either way, active and passive, the control is with God.

However, we've got to make sure we understand that God's not responsible for our sin. And when we get into that, we talk about what's called culpability, the ability to be responsible.

So we have what's called the um Uh the wills of God. Or causation of God, sorry. We have what's called the efficient cause. We have the um proximate cause and the ultimate cause.

So When Adam and Eve were in the garden, she took the fruit and she gave it to Adam. And he chose to eat that fruit. He is the efficient cause of his own sin. no one forced him. He generated that rebellion out of his own will, his own desire, and he did it.

So God's not responsible for that because that's generated out of Adam's heart. His uh his alone.

So that's so Adam is what we call the efficient cause. But, on the other hand, God is the proximate cause of Adam's sin.

So what do we mean by that? The proximate cause, or the condition in which a free will choice can occur, or when a certain effect can occur.

So the proximate cause is God in that He created the Garden of Eden. Put the trees in there. put Adam and Eve in there, said, Don't eat of this, and let the servant come in.

So, God is the one who arranged the circumstances and the conditions in which. Adam freely chose.

So God is the proximate cause but he's not responsible for the efficient cause. He's the proximate cause, but he's not responsible for your sin. Because the one who sins by his own volition is the efficient cause of his own sin, and so therefore God is separated from that. God is the ultimate cause of everything. He's the one who created the angels in the universe.

So he's ultimately, everything traces back to him. But we get into proximate conditions in which certain environments and microenvironments that we're in, and then we act freely within that, but our acting freely is freely ours and therefore our responsibility.

Okay. Thank you for that. That's the best Bible-based explanation I've heard. That is awesome. I really appreciate that.

But what I did want to say is, and I know there's other people probably waiting, we could therefore say he's in control. But control doesn't necessarily mean he orchestrates everything. He has like Adam had the had the ability to go against what God would prefer in and Eve, right? Is that fair to say he he controls and he doesn't necessarily orchestrate everything? He well, I I don't I can't say he does or does not orchestrate everything.

So, here's another illustration of something. Let's say there's a white piece of paper. and there's no lines, there's nothing on it, it's blank. And in the middle is a dot. This dot represents God, the blankness represents nothing.

He hasn't created anything yet.

So what you can I you and I can do here is take a pencil and and draw squiggly lines from that dot out to varying edges of the paper. and we can make squiggly lines. and uh they represent timelines. And so they're squiggly because there's different ones. different directions.

We can do fifty of these.

Well, these 50 represent the potentials in the mind of God.

So there would be so many that there would be no white left on the paper.

Okay, but we'll just take that right now, illustration.

So we take one of these lines, and it's a possibility of existence, of you. in your closet picking a shirt. And on another line, you're picking a you're uh you're picking a different shirt. in the same closet.

Now let's just this is simple simplified, but So we can take a microscope, we look at this line, and we zoom way in. And there you are in this one line picking a red shirt. There you are on another line picking a blue shirt. God knows by the circumstances and the Approximate conditions in which he creates, he can bring about certain events through indirect cause. But he can also just put it in your heart.

Pick the blue one. You can do it. Either one. Because he moves the heart of the king where he wishes it to go. Proverbs 21.1.

And so when we look at this, we say, okay, so we have the blue shirt universe, the red shirt universe, okay, so really oversimplified. And God wants you to pick the blue shirt at a particular time. He brings that universe into existence. that line.

Now he's caused it, but you're free in it. And so he's orchestrated it. as well as you being free at the same time. That's a great explanation. Thank you for the teaching moment.

Each time I listen, I get more edified in biblical theology, and I appreciate you. I just want to say thank you for that. Hey man, you're welcome. You know, just like to make things quick and slick and bring it down so people can understand it, you know? And no illustration is perfect, but that gives you the basics.

All right? All right. Thank you for the time and I'll talk with you again later, okay?

Alright, brother. God bless. All right. Now, a lot of you may not have been familiarized with the idea of God's sovereignty. He works all things after the counsel of His will, Ephesians 1:11.

Here's this is what Daniel 4:35 says: All the inhabitants. Oh, there's a break coming up.

Well, see, that was predestined. You know what the Calvinist said when he fell down the stairs? Because it's predestined. He goes, Glad that's over with. Hey, you'll be right back after these messages, please.

Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. Alright everyone, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, we have wide open lines, 877-207-2276.

We have nobody waiting.

Now I can talk about a variety of things. I hope the last segment was instructive. And helpful to try and make people figure things out and help them to see how God works. There's a lot I could teach on that.

Now, guess what? Tonight, my plan, we'll see if it happens. I plan to go to an Eastern Orthodox church service tonight. And an hour after the show ends, I plan to get there. We'll see.

And go in. I'm not gonna cause you problems, but I wanna go in. And I just had an urge to go in and see. Uh, so I might do that. I saw some pictures of the church, the local church here that's EO, and man, it's just full of icons everywhere and fancy dress and code, and the priest, all his special garments.

You know, I I guess gotta say something. Um Now, this doesn't mean my way's right.

Okay, I'm not saying it is. And I know people have different levels of propriety, what they think is. But I'll tell you, I grew up basically, I grew up in Southern California from about the age of 10 on. And um You know, there was there's beaches there. And there's churches everywhere because it was very densely packed.

22 million people at one time in Southern California. 22 million. With the tenth largest economy in the world, just Southern California.

So it's really something, and you could drive. you know, for forty five minutes. From north to south, going straight to the beach and never leave the city until you got to the beach. Just packed. And so the casualness of the weather there really affects.

How you dress. Because the weather is so comfortable, it's low humidity and it's like 72 degrees all the time, and we have winter on Tuesday. You know, that kind of a thing. Oh, it gets hot, it gets cold, but you see my point. And so the casualness of Southern California is such that the churches.

What they would do was like water levels to the lowest level. I hope that's not a bad way to say it, but it just seeks its own level.

Well, the same thing with the churches. A lot of them would just seek what was comfortable in that environment. Just like churches in Hawaii, I've seen that they go to the beach, they're in shorts, they're in flip-flops, and the ocean is over there, and they're having a service. Why? Because it's comfortable there.

I remember once when I was in the Philippines, this is a true story. We went into the jungle area of. Of one of the lower southern Takloban, I think it was, southern islands, but I can't remember. And we went into uh we had to get into motorcycles and walk and and uh you know car, then motorcycles up these trails up into the hills and there was a village there. And this village was uh oh my goodness just it was just poverty.

It was buildings put together with pallets, with slaps of wood, you know, just things like that. and they had a church. That's why we were there. And one of our guys in our group was going to preach. And The church consisted of Let's say four poles.

and towards the front, where the pastor would be, there was a wall constructed, wood, and that was it. And he had a little stand for preaching. And so the doors were all open and these wooden pews. and people would come in and they sat and they're barefoot. And they are dressed in the attire that's just comfortable for that area.

They weren't in suits and ties. They were just in very comfortable attire. And during the sermon, Believe it or not, one of the women there who's listening started breastfeeding. And the way she did it was she just opened up her blouse in the middle of the sermon. And just I tucked the baby there and started.

And we talked about it later to the pastor who was preaching to one of our group. I said, So, how about going? He goes, Yeah. He laughed because it was distracting. But, you know.

So the point is that churches relate to the different styles. Of stuff, and Southern California is no exception.

So, there would be, like Chuck Smith's church at Calvary Chapel. They, I remember hearing the stories. about uh surfers coming in, bringing their surfboards, and they would lay them up outside, or sometimes bring them inside, and their feet would be sandy and they would go sit in the carpet and listen to sermons, listen to Chuck Smith preach and teach. And uh This is the style. And when I went to the church, usually in the evening, it was very casual.

Shorts, flip-flops, t-shirts was perfectly fine.

Okay, why am I talking about this? You go to these churches like the EO and the RC, And I'm not knocking their style of dress and their code, that's not the issue. But they are very apparently steeped in tradition. And it doesn't mean it's bad just because it's tradition. Uh I I find the disparity of this this style of difference.

Which is I must say Either one's good or bad. But I find this disparity, this Great. This great gulf between them.

So, when I go into a church that is full of casually dressed people, I I feel comfortable. because uh it's not pomp, it's not ceremony they're after. It's not rituals, not tradition. normally speaking, generally speaking, how it is is they just want to hear about Jesus. That's it.

They only want to hear what Jesus had to say, what the apostles had to say, because they were his disciples, his apostles. And it didn't matter what you wore. It didn't matter how long your hair was or or short or if you had flip-flops or jeans or you were in a suit. They didn't care. And that freedom for me was always something I thoroughly enjoyed.

Remember once I ended up going to a church. I called it the Punker Church. It wasn't full of punkers, but I just called it that. And the pastor drove up on a Harley. He had jeans and a black shirt on, and he walked into the sanctuary carrying his Bible.

of his Harley. Motorcycle. There were people in the church who had spiked hair and regular hair and weird clothes and not-so-weird clothes. And I'm going to tell you, I felt so comfortable in that church. because they were just full of love.

They didn't care about the externals. They cared about you. And how you were with the Lord Jesus. That's what. They were about.

When I went gone to prison, I did prison ministry for nine years. In prisons, you have certain levels of dress that you can't achieve. A suit and tie is not going to work.

So they are let's just say very casual by necessity in prisons. And there might be a little bit of a stylistic difference, very little, what kind of T-shirt you wear, how long it might be, the size of shorts or pants you might wear. and there were groups of Mexicans and whites and blacks and Asians and whatever. And w in the chapels, though, they were all intermixed. And it didn't matter.

where what group they were from. It mattered. Do they love Jesus? Are they there for Christ? And I really enjoyed that in those prisons.

When I did pulpit supply for several years in Southern California, that means they have a vacant pulpit for a week or two, and I would go and preach. Um and and you know sometimes I'd preach in two churches a day, sometimes three churches in a single day, you know, two in the morning, one in the evening kind of a thing, uh as it was geographically possible. And I met people who they would go to church in suits and ties, and others who they were just uh in shorts. and flip-flops. and in different denominations and different groups, and I thoroughly enjoyed all of it.

Now The thing is When you go to a church, that has smells in bells. Whistles and thistles. Yeah. And you have a priest up there. which is unbiblical, dressed in special garments.

that show authority, which is unbiblical. At an altar, which is unbiblical in the church, and offering sacrifices, which is unbiblical. Man, the pomp and ceremony is a way of distracting you from your relationship with Christ. If we write back after these messages, please give me a call, 8772-07-2276. Yeah.

It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick. All right, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you got to do is dial 8772-072276. I just dated myself dial back in the 70s.

You dial a phone.

Now, what do you say? What's the right? You punch in the numbers? You punch the number. I don't know.

Anyway, let's get to Suzanne from North Carolina. Suzanne, welcome. You're on the air. Thank you.

So I listen to you a lot when after I take my grandkids home. Um your uh show happens to be on. And you remind me a lot of my husband who passed away a couple of years ago because he was very particular about understanding all of the Bible and all, whereas I'm more just a I love Jesus, what you know, whatever he wants me to do. But anyway, he was really into Clarence Larkin. Do you know him?

No, but I saw the name. I looked it up during the break, a little. American Baptist pastor died in 1924. Dispensational authorities. Yeah, and he did all kinds of studies on end times.

Okay. And I've got tons and tons of his charts about. how he thinks things, you know, the last days are going to be and all. And Um Well, that means if you just He's probably dispensational. I think it's dispensational, yeah, which means he's premillennial.

And probably, I don't know, pre-trib rapture, post-trib rapture, but I don't know. Maybe you can tell me.

Well, I don't know that much about him, but I was just, you know, you just made me think of him, and so. I thought, well, I wonder if he knows about Clarence Larkin.

So maybe you can look him up and And do a little bit more, and I'll call you back another night.

Well, I'm looking up and I'm seeing information on him. He believed in dispensationalism. Typical. He's a typical dispensation. Dispensationalist, the sharp Israel church distinction, pre-tribulation rapture.

Seven year tribulation, second coming, uh the premillennial view. Yeah. Uh-huh. We call it a dispies, a dispensationalist. He's within orthodoxy.

I don't agree with his views on the end times, but hopefully he's right and I'm wrong.

So, okay.

So what do you like about this when you said hopefully he's right? Oh, well, he's pre-tribulation rapture. I'm post-tribulation rapture. He says we're going to get taken out before the determination. I think we're going through it.

Okay. And I don't want to go through it. And I believe that things are going to get worse and worse. I think that we're going to go through it and it's going to be b bad. And that's my view.

And so premillennialists And pre-trib pre-mill pre-millennialists usually say, no, things are great. We'll just get rafted out of here and things will be fine. And I disagree with that position. I hope they're right. I don't want to go through it.

You know, I don't want to do that.

So, why do you disagree? Because I read the Bible. Because of things like, for example. When you go to Matthew twenty four which is about um The um And Jesus says He says, let's see, where is it? In verse 29, but immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky.

the powers uh of the heavens uh will be shaken. and the Son of Man will appear in the sky. And then all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They'll see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. and he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet.

and they'll gather together as elect for the four winds.

Well that trumpet, there's only one. It's the trumpet that occurs at the return of Christ. There's only one return of Christ. You go to 1 Thessalonians 4, it says, and he himself will descend from heaven with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

This is the rapture.

So Jesus is saying the rapture is happening after the tribulation, right there in Matthew 24, 29 through 31. That's just one of the many issues.

Okay. Well, I also I grew up in a a Baptist church. That's actually where I met my husband. And we had quite a great pastor who was a teacher of the of the Bible. Um but he was also a dispensationalist.

Yeah, I think you said, yeah, God doesn't work dispensationally. That's a creation of different people trying to find methods and ways that God focuses about history. Yeah. And it's not in Scripture per se. The Word isn't.

That's not to say the concept isn't, so I want to be charitable here. But what we do find is God works covenantally. A covenant is a pact or an agreement between two or more parties. And so He works by covenant, by speaking. And binding himself with others.

So the word for covenant in Latin is testamentum. Old Testament, New Testament. Old covenant, new covenant. And so when you look at covenant theology, then dispensational stuff kind of whittles away. There are some other things You know, you've heard two men in the field, one is taken, one is left.

That's the rapture, right? You've heard that, right? Yeah. It is absolutely not the rapture. Absolutely.

100% of the time, when I show up to people, it's not. The rapture is out of 1 Thessalonians 4. 16 through chapter 5, verse 2. But when it says, Two men in the field, one is taken, one is left, it's the wicked who are taken. And the proof is found in the parallel of Luke 17, Matthew 24.

When it says, as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be the days of the coming of the Son of Man, for they were eating, they were drinking, they were being given in marriage, till the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. That's the they of Luke seventeen.

Well, don't you think that when we all get to heaven, we'll will be surprised about Some of the things we thought were true. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And the pre-tribbers are going to be very shocked that a lot of what they've been taught. That's okay.

By certain dispensationalists, it's just not biblical. And if you look at those verses, like two men in the field, one is taken, one is left. They ask Jesus, where are they taken? He answers the question. Where the body is, the vultures gather.

That's Luke 17.

So, what really blows me away is that so many pastors for so many years would teach that one taking one left means the rapture. It has nothing to do with the rapture. And they aren't even astute enough to read the context to figure it out. That really concerns me. And uh So the rapture does occur, okay, and it's talked about in 1 Thessalonians.

Yeah, I certainly can't hold up the dispensationalist end. because I'm just not. into that type of thing. But I know that they were They were people that studied the Bible, so they just had a different opinion. They had a different lens.

They had a different lens. Well, I've done this many times with people. I've shown them things like, doesn't it mean two men afield want to take that? That's a rapture. And I read the context, and they 100% of the time, when they read the context, they say, wow, you're right, it's not the rapture.

100%. Is this clear? Because Jesus answers where they're taken, and they're taken to a place of death. Where the body is the vultures gather. Read Luke seventeen, Matthew twenty four about those parallel verses, and you'll see that's what it is.

And you know what's really even more interesting? In Luke 13 Luke 13, Matthew 13. Jesus gives the parable of the wheat and the tares.

Okay. I know that. And in verse 30 of Matthew 13, allow both to go together until the harvest. And at the time of the harvest, I'll say to the reapers: first gather up. The Tares and buy them in bundles to burn them up, gather the wheat into the barn.

So the harvest is the end of the age by Jesus' own interpretation. Ten verses later. Said man Son of Man will send forth his angels, he'll gather out of his kingdom all the stumbling blocks. And he's the one who says that the wicked one taken first. And that Really blows a lot of dispensationalists out of the water.

They don't know what to do with that.

Okay. But let me ask you one other question, totally unrelated, I think. The scripture that's frequently quoted about Um How the scripture is God breathed in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Second test only three sixteen and seventeen, yes. Uh-huh.

But when Jesus said that, or Paul or whatever, I mean, they were talking about the Old Testament because there was no New Testament scripture.

So how do people apply that to the New Testament? Because Paul knew that he was writing Scripture. He would say things like, I say to you, or the Lord says to you, not I, and he would write it down. And he knew it was from God. Peter even said that Paul's writings were difficult to understand, like as are some of the rest of the Scriptures.

So they knew that they were writing was from God and authoritative. Matthew and Mark and Luke and all of them.

Now, Mark and Matthew, Mark and Luke, excuse me, were not direct apostles. They were what we might call researchers or ammanuensis. They were scribes or that kind of thing who wrote down what they had. But the church recognizes it as being worked from God through them, accurately approved by the apostles and therefore part of the canon.

So when it says all scripture is inspired of God.

Okay. All scriptures. 2 Timothy 2. Where is that? I've seen so many verses in my head.

1 Timothy, no, 2 Timothy. Yeah, my husband was like that too. I would say to him, just like I did to you, a little bit of it, and he'd say, oh, yeah, that's, you know, 1 Thessalonians, such and such. Oh, good for him. But it says he was good reference.

Oh, yeah, you know, my wife passed away last year, and she said, it's nice having a guy around the house. You can ask what version, and you just give it. She'd said the same thing. It's nice. And I said, that means because I'm always right, hon.

And then she'd just walk away. Oh, yes. You're tried.

Sounds very similar.

So I have one third question to ask.

Okay, well, can you hold on after the break? We've got a break right now.

Okay. All right. Hey folks, we're all. No, I hit hold and she fell away. I hope she called right back.

We'll be right back. Please stay tuned. I'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live, taking your calls at 877-207-2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. Let's see, we got disconnected. I hit the hold button, which is what I do when we go on break. And then grab my, as soon as I hit the hold, it dropped.

So if she's listening, she can call right back and we can get her back on the air. In the meantime, what I can do is get to some of the emails that have come in and questions and stuff like that. And since we're in the last segment of the hour, which I cannot believe how fast it's gone already, what I'll do is. Go to some of those emails, alright?

Alright, let's see. How about um? Let's see, I'm trying to get a shorter one. Can houses be built in people be healed, trees be grown, and many other things by a prayer. A can.

Well you see when you have different categories uh houses, healings, trees, and other things.

Some of these categories can be conflicting. in that Oh. a prayer is asking God and then He can heal someone. a prayer asking God We don't see any instance in scripture where suddenly a house materializes.

So we do see where healings occur. And they're for the purpose, usually, of glorifying God and expanding the kingdom of God.

So the question. is a little problematic, In that it says, can they be, you know, blah blah blah. Generally, we could say, well, yes. Houses could be built by prayer. I was reminded of a group.

of um missionaries. uh people in i forgot which country in africa And They, uh, so Missionary went to see this group of people, that's right. You know, they had they had radios and stuff like that. You know, they were just very poverty stricken. and they were Christians and these missionaries went to see them and we got talking about all kinds of stuff and And um they asked the missionaries, do you want to go see our church?

And he said, Well, yeah. I would love to see your church.

So they took him out and walked him into a path and around this and over that and and then it came to this bit of a field not too far away. and there were like two or three walls built. of of this building. And they said, well, there's our church. And the missionary says, well It's not a church.

And he said But of course it is. We're praying and when God brings money in For the church, we just continue to add on to it. That's our church. God'll provide and it'll be built. He says, We're not worried about that.

I never forgot that. I never forgot that. And it was a different perspective. We consider a church to be a finished and occupied thing. Not always.

Just like I mentioned earlier, the missionaries when we went to the Philippines, I did some mission work there. It was a good time. It was interesting. And that village that just had a church location of four pillars. and a single wall.

And that was our church. It was interesting. And actually look at but look back on that fondly. It was a good memory. And here's another little fo fond memory I have of that very time.

and it was a good example of Christian charity and humility. We drove those jeepneets And we went to uh just another place. I don't know where it was. And we get out And they're Is a playground. There's this big building.

Middle of nowhere. in a playground uh of broken uh playground things, just broken swings and a slide was it broken down 'cause it's old and raggedy. And this was an orphanage we went to. And the people were were Christians running the orphanage. and you walk in, there's no air conditioning.

There's uh there's nothing. And we walked in and They were very warm, very welcoming. And they showed us around the orphanage, the bedrooms. A lot of beds in one room. taking care of children who were orphans.

And we went into the kitchen and the women there were uh were working. It was I think there was a couple of men around too doing different kinds of things. and the women were in the kitchen and and preparing food. And they were they were so warm. They were so kind, you could just see it.

and uh so they most of the p people there speak English. And so we had no problems communicating. And then we went outside later to sit down to eat. and the food that they brought us. Wasn't very much.

Now I'm not complaining. Not at all. But we could tell that they were giving it out of what they had. And it was a tilapia. A very small version of a fish.

And the people there are smaller in stature and size.

So they don't eat as much as we do.

So we men who were there, you know, we were very grateful. We had rice and tilapia. And water? And that was fine for us. And we were so grateful.

You know, you can eat that pretty quickly. And um But I remember the generosity of the people. I remember how kind they were, and how grateful they were that we were there, how grateful they were for how God had routinely supplied their needs.

so they could take care of the children. You know, when you're there, And you think back about your remote-controlled car start. Air condition, GPS system, your refrigerator, your internet, multiple TVs in the house. you know, etcetera. And you see how they're living.

I was actually envious. Because Their faith was closer to the ground. than mine. Mine was more up in my head. theirs was by their feet what they were doing.

And it really was uh It was a sobering thing. Let me just remember. Just remembering stuff like that and uh I forgot, I'm just kind of rambling.

So, um You know, the idea of, oh, back to the issue here of casualness of churches and things like that. And we went to a Philippine church while we were there too. And they were just very warm people. dress differently. And but more politely in that context.

So when I go to churches that are highfalutin. That have, even in Protestant situations, whether the guy wears a robe. And gets up to the pulpit. They stand on queue, sing hymns on queue, sit down on queue. I'm not knocking that.

This is not my style of church, though. But, you know, it's okay. The people love it. Um I find it a whole thing very fascinating because to me, the whole thing revolves around what's your relationship with Jesus like. And it doesn't matter if you have high-falutin clothing or not.

It doesn't matter to me. Doesn't matter to God. And what's your relationship with Jesus like? Are you seeking him? Or are you seeking the comfort of a ritual?

Are you seeking the historical Um Pedigree. of a so-called true church. and you find your comfort. in the peripherals. the smells and the bells.

The uh The Traditions the stained glass windows. I'm not saying people who enjoy those things are wrong, not at all. But I I can't help but wonder sometimes What is dealing with what's going on in their hearts? I'm not judging them, I'm just saying I Are there hearts? Only God knows this.

Are their hearts more concerned with being in the right environment? Then um having their their heart in the right condition. And it's just that you know, these are just questions I ask. And I've been to many churches. I used to be an assistant pastor at a Reformed church.

and this was regimented. And you did things a certain way, a certain time, made to sing hymns. It was tough for me getting through all that. And uh It was difficult. My wife, at the time, we'd be driving home and she'd be crying because she couldn't find any spiritual depth and closeness with Christ in that.

For her, for her. Uh we were just used to the different style. And it was very difficult on her. She's a good woman, and she was dutiful and didn't complain to anybody, just let me know it was difficult on her. And I said, I get it.

We're here, and hopefully, they'll open up other doors later, and you know, and she was good with that. She was good with that. But I remembered this one of the duties I had. was to go visit uh the sick. And there was this ninety something year old woman on her deathbed.

in her house. And I went in and uh Spent time with her. I still remember this. Sitting there, we're just talking. And remember, the context here is: we're talking Christian Reformed Dutch.

group of people. Where, when my last name was Slick, when the first day I was there, they asked me my last name, and I said, Slick, a woman said to me, You mean slickstra? Couldn't even think outside the box. And I went, uh-oh, this is going to be interesting. And so they had a $250,000 organ kind of a thing, just humongous.

And you went in. And you were very staunch, very Regimented. And during uh the church service once I put my arm around my wife. When the pastor was preaching, I was an assistant pastor. When he was preaching, And I was told by the elders not to do that.

And I told him flat out, I said, No, I'll put my arm around my wife. If I want to do that in in church. I mean, I'm not it's nothing in Scripture says I can't put my arm around my wife. And they didn't like that. But it helps.

I'm sorry, that's just that's going beyond. If I'm going to hold the hand of my wife or put my hand on her leg or put my hand around her shoulders. for comfort if she needs that. I'm doing that. Yeah.

Well, this is laying the groundwork. This is the kind of church it was. And this 90-year-old woman. She surprised me. She was one of them.

And we got talking and and she knew she was dying and only had days or a couple three weeks to live. and she did pass away for a few weeks. She told me She said she could hardly wait. to go be with And I I'll quote what she said, to go be with my Lord Jesus. She said, I just want to go be with them.

And it it kind of shocked me. Because I wasn't used to that kind of of heartfelt Um Beauty. Except in the more casual churches where that was more freely expressed. It wasn't that freely expressed in that highfalutin traditional church. And yet there it was.

And It's one of those memories in life that sticks with you, you know. And for me, I can still see her where I was sitting, which is the room. And After all these years. And And that That statement from her has always echoed in my heart and mind What a good thing that was, what a good testimony that was. a comforting thing.

She actually comforted me Not intentionally, but she did. because I could see her desire. to be set free from the body of this of this death and go be with Jesus. Wow. That to me is what our relationship with God should be like.

And it could be found in casual churches and highfalutin churches, traditional churches. But that has to be the issue. I think. Because God is faithful through whom we are called into fellowship with His Son, Christ Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:9.

and we should seek that fellowship with him. And that's the thing.

Sometimes it's hidden. We don't know the hearts of people, and it comes out in odd ways. And sometimes it's very visible. And both r uh let's just say both sides of the pendulum, the swings of the pendulum are are valid. And people love God in their own way.

So when I go to these churches and I see the highfalutin stained glass stuff, I'm always suspect. But does it mean you're not loving the Lord Jesus?

Okay. Anyway, just thoughts, just some things thinking about. And uh, Hope you guys enjoyed that musing cogitation machinations Thoughts. All right, we're gonna be out of time here. The music's gonna start.

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